*Appendix Trivia*

[Valandil]

OK - since they're booted out of the ROTK Trivia Thread, we geekier folk need a place to put these gems... anything from LOTR appendices, forwards, etc. First up:

Hobbit calendars start every year on a Saturday and end every year on a Friday, with every date always falling on the same day of the week (and have 12 months with a nice, tidy 30 days each).

How do they do it? And since 52 weeks equal 364 days, what do they do with the 365th? And the 366th in "Leap years"???:confused:

This one: I'll let you look up!:D

[Amea]

Uh? :confused:
You don't seem to make sense. Could you explane it a little more

[Ilúvatar]

They had two days which were called Yule and two called Lithe. 1 Yule occurred before Afteryule 1 (first day of the year)and 2 Yule occurred after Foreyule 30 (last day of the year), 1 Lithe occurred after Forelithe 30 and 2 Lithe occurred before Afterlithe 1 (middle of the year). They also had a fifth named day called Midyears's Day which occurred between 1 Lithe and 2 Lithe. This made up a total of 365 days a year. For leap years they celebrated Overlithe, which occurred between Midyear's Day and 2 Lithe.

At the time of the War of the Ring - the Shire was 1,418 - 1,419 years old.

This is my first post.

[Valandil]

Illuvatar (wow - Illuvatar is a SAPLING?:D ),

You're knocking at the door. I guess my question was confusing:confused: - the MAIN thing I wanted to ask was - how did they keep each date the same day of the week, year after year?

BTW - you mixed up the Yule days. 1 Yule is actually the LAST day of the year, and 2 Yule is the FIRST... counter-intuitive if you think in terms of years, but sensible if you think in terms of a yule-tide season itself!

So... How DID they keep each date the same day of the week - year after year?

[The Gaffer]

Because the "extra" days didn't have a day of the week??

[Valandil]

warmer... warmer.... hot, hot, HOT!

Which day/days?

[Ilúvatar]

Originally posted by Valandil
warmer... warmer.... hot, hot, HOT!

Which day/days?
I said 1 Lithe, 2 Lithe and 1 Yule, 2 Yule. Midyear's Day and Overlithe. 2 Yule fell on the "first" saturday of the year and 1 Yule fell on the last Friday of the year. 1 Lithe fell on the last friday of Forelithe and 2 Lithe fell on the first Saturday.

Midyear's Day and Overlithe didn't fall on any corresponding day of the month.

If this isn't what you mean, then I'm at a loss.

I shouldn't have made the mistake on the 1 Yule and 2 Yule thing because the first month of the year is AFTERYule and the last month of the year is FOREyule.

[Valandil]

OK, OK... I'll give it to you... but I was asking which one(s) did not have a WEEK day associated (Saturday, Sunday, Monday...) - those WERE Midyear's Day and (in Leap years) Overlithe. Technically, the Yule & Lithe days were not part of the 30-day months, yet each was on a weekday. Wonder if Hobbit ladies could propose to a man on the Overlithe - like we make allowance for "Leap Day"?:)

So... Iluvatar, it's yours... ask away.

PS... in PoME, JRRT points out that none of the Hobbit months start with a Friday - and says that there was an idiomatic expression about something happening "On Friday the First" speaking of an event like pigs flying or trees walking. He says the fuller expression was "On Friday the First of Summerfilth" - a non-existent month... the Hobbit October was "Winterfilth"

[Ilúvatar]

Sorry Valandil for taking so long to ask a question.

Here is my question. What is the age difference between Arwen and Aragorn when they get married?

It's probably a pretty easy one though.

[Radagast The Brown]

2690?

[Ilúvatar]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
2690?
Correct, there was a 2,690 year age difference between Arwen and Aragorn. :D

[Radagast The Brown]

Who was the Numenorian king that tried to fix the actions of ten kings before him? (the actions were the revolt against the Valar and everything with it)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Tar-Palantir (Ar-Inziladun)?

[Radagast The Brown]

Yup. Your turn. :)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Well, I'm terrible at trivia, so this is probably too easy.

How did the Palantir of Osgaliath come to be lost?

[Valandil]

It fell into the River Anduin when much of Osgiliath was burned and destroyed during the Kin-Strife. The Gondorians were pretty sophisticated... but I guess they didn't have SCUBA! :)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Correct. (Makes you wonder why they didn't dredge for it. The thing must weigh a ton:))
And what if Deagol and/or Smeagol had sailed down the Anduin on holiday and found it. Hmmmm. Imagine poor Smeagol having to lug that around:eek:

[Valandil]

OK... in a similar vein:

Who were the leaders of the two opposing factions in Gondor's Kin-Strife?

[Radagast The Brown]

Eldacar vs. descendants of the kings?

[Valandil]

Looking for a little more... there was a certain person who led the other faction.

And, btw... know who Eldacar was? :)

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Valandil
Looking for a little more... there was a certain person who led the other faction.

And, btw... know who Eldacar was? :) After looking *again* I would say Castmir.

Eldacar was a king, a think...?

[Valandil]

Correct! Eldacar was King, Castamir would have been his second cousin, because we're told he was the grandson of Romandecil II's younger brother (and Romandecil II was Eldacar's grandfather) - so they both had the same great-grandfather.

Kin-strife started because Eldacar was considered a "half-breed" - his mother was from the Northmen in Rhovanion. :)

[Radagast The Brown]

Who was the first governor (/leader/ruler) of the Shire?

[Amea]

It's only a guess But, Michel Delving?

[Radagast The Brown]

No.

[brownjenkins]

the first Thain was Bucca of the Marish

i don't know if the first mayor is ever mentioned

[Radagast The Brown]

You are correct. :)

I don't know about the mayor. (and can't say I care... :rolleyes: )

[brownjenkins]

who was the orc slain by dain ironfoot on the steps of moria?

[The Dunedain]

Azog

[brownjenkins]

correct :)

[The Dunedain]

At what age does Aragorn Die?

[Valandil]

210 - on his birthday, no less.

[The Dunedain]

yes

[Valandil]

Which prince (and later, king) of Arnor married a princess of Gondor?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Arvedui last king, heir of Araphant m. Firiel (daughter of Ondoher).

[Valandil]

Yes - and technically, I guess I should have said, 'prince of Arthedain' - rather than Arnor.

Tuor - you're up!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

How was Merry's time with The Mark long remembered in the Shire? (be specific)

[Valandil]

Were his helmet and shield put on display at Michel Delving?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I don't think so. I'd have to check that, but I believe Bilbo put the mithril coat on display at Michel Delving.
I'm referring to something done on the same date each year, and an item specifically connected to Rohirric warfare.

[brownjenkins]

must be the annual sounding of the Horn of the Mark remembering the Battle of Bywater

[Tuor of Gondolin]

That's it. You're next.

(And looking at the question, it may have been worded too ambiguously, since the Horn was sounded to commemorate the Nov. 2 sounding, not a Battle in Rohan).:o

[brownjenkins]

who led the dunlendings against the rohirrim just before the long winter?

[Valandil]

Wulf, son o' Frecca

[brownjenkins]

correct plus :)

[Valandil]

Who gave Arvedui his name - and why?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Malbeth the Seer. Because he predicted that he would be the last king of Arthedain, although the prediction had an op-opt clause (if the Dunedain picked him as kingof Gondor).

[Valandil]

Correct! Your go...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Okay:
If you received a letter from a hobbit how could you tell whether the sender was male or female? You don't know the hobbit, you have no picture, and the body of the letter doesn't have any information as to the gender of the writer.

[Keith K]

You could tell from the name of the sender. If it was a flower or jewel name then the sender is female. Also, if the name ended in an "a" then it was a male sender. If the name ended in "o" or "e" then it was a female sender.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Correct. Your turn.:)

[Keith K]

What appeared in southern Mirkwood in the Third Age that had never been seen before?

[Valandil]

A tower (er... Dol Gulder or something like that?) on the bare hill?

Say - on that previous one: I knew about the flowers, but not the jewels... but is that right about name endings? Frodo, Bilbo and Samwise end with "o" or "e" and are male names - while Lobelia ends with "a" and is a female...??? :confused:

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Valandil
A tower (er... Dol Gulder or something like that?) on the bare hill?

Say - on that previous one: I knew about the flowers, but not the jewels... but is that right about name endings? Frodo, Bilbo and Samwise end with "o" or "e" and are male names - while Lobelia ends with "a" and is a female...??? :confused:

First of all it is not the tower. Secondly, concerning the names, they are Anglicized versions. In the true Westron speech (or at least the Hobbit version thereof) those rules apply.

[brownjenkins]

i remember something about a new race of trolls in southern mirkwood

[Keith K]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i remember something about a new race of trolls in southern mirkwood
A new race of trolls? Really? What were they called? :confused:

[brownjenkins]

could be wrong... i'll have to check tonight... thought there was some passage about orcs or trolls appearing for the first time (in that location, is how i always took it to mean)

[Valandil]

I THINK those trolls were "Olag-hai" - were you just curious - or was that the answer you were looking for? :)

[Keith K]

That was the answer I was looking for. :D :p :rolleyes:

[Valandil]

Name the dwarf king who founded Erebor.

[Radagast The Brown]

Thrain (the first)?

[Valandil]

Correct-amundo!

Your question?

[Radagast The Brown]

Who is the 13th governor (/leader/ruler)?

[of the Shire obviously]

[Valandil]

Guess: was that Gerontius Took?

[EDIT: and in English, the word Tolkien uses is "Thain" - which is actually an Old Anglo-Saxon term... I note you seem hesitant about what to call it and wonder if it's just from not running across that term - and modern English being a second language, I imagine grasping it's historical roots is a little harder! :) ]

[Radagast The Brown]

Sorry - but you're wrong. (it was a Took though!)

[Valandil]

Bull-roarer? Or was he one-and-the-same as Gerontius?

[Radagast The Brown]

I think Gerontius is Old Took? Anyway it's not Bull roar.

[Valandil]

(as long as no one else is guessing...)

Isengrim II ?

[Radagast The Brown]

Nope.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Isumbras I. Also the first of the Took line.

[Dúnedain]

I think Tuor is correct, that was gonna be my guess...

[Radagast The Brown]

Tuor is right. :)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

How old was Odo Proudfoot when he attended Bilbo's
eleventy-first Birthday Party?

[Radagast The Brown]

97 years?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Yes! Your turn.

[Radagast The Brown]

Which King gave to the Priannath a land beyond the Baranduin? (the shire)

[Valandil]

Argeleb I?

[Radagast The Brown]

Almost. :)

[Valandil]

Argeleb II then?

[Keith K]

It is Argeleb II. I made a riddle about that recently.

[Valandil]

Thanks. Since Radagast has left the building, I'll go ahead and post. (Hope you don't mind R the B!) Staying in the same family tree:

Which Chieftain of the Northern Dunedain was killed by wolves?

(gotta hate the thought of THAT! whether they were actually over-sized Timber Wolves or the giant Hyena-variety wargs from PJ's movie!) :eek:

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Thanks. Since Radagast has left the building, I'll go ahead and post. (Hope you don't mind R the B!) Staying in the same family tree:

Which Chieftain of the Northern Dunedain was killed by wolves?

(gotta hate the thought of THAT! whether they were actually over-sized Timber Wolves or the giant Hyena-variety wargs from PJ's movie!) :eek:


Aragorn I was most certainly slain by wolves. It is also said that Arathorn I was slain by Orcs or wolves, but it's not specific :D

[Valandil]

You made me check about Arathorn I... didn't find it yet in the appendix - I'll look in PoME when I get home (if'n I remembers!). It seems I vaguely recall JRRT either having some indecision about his exact fate - or leaving unclear / contradictory notes - recounted in PoME... or is there a place I'm missing in the appendices?

Anyway - YES, Aragorn I was the one I was thinking of... Strider's namesake! Your go Dunedain!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
You made me check about Arathorn I... didn't find it yet in the appendix - I'll look in PoME when I get home (if'n I remembers!). It seems I vaguely recall JRRT either having some indecision about his exact fate - or leaving unclear / contradictory notes - recounted in PoME... or is there a place I'm missing in the appendices?

Anyway - YES, Aragorn I was the one I was thinking of... Strider's namesake! Your go Dunedain!

Actually the Arathorn info wasn't in the appendices I don't think, it's in one of the other works, I need to look it up...

[Dúnedain]

Ok here goes:

What is the name that Merry records as the word the King of Rohan used for the Hobbits and what is it's meaning? :D

[Dúnedain]

Valandil, here is some info I just pulled on Arathorn I from the encyclopedia of arda:

Aragorn I (Chieftain for 64 years to III 2848)
It is known that Arathorn met an untimely end, though no records remain of his fate. Perhaps he was slain by Orcs or wolves, though the worst of the fighting with the Orcs of the Mountains had been over for a century before his death.


I am still not sure where I read it though :(

[Valandil]

hoblyta = 'hole dweller'

right?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
hoblyta = 'hole dweller'

right?

half of it is correct :D

[Valandil]

Oh, wait... "holbytla"

went a little dyslexic!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Oh, wait... "holbytla"

went a little dyslexic!


lol nope keep trying :D

[Valandil]

Hmmm ... :confused:

I'll defer to someone else - and only look it up later if you stump us all.

Keith K... got any idea?

[Radagast The Brown]

Are you sure it's from mthe appendixes?

[brownjenkins]

kûd-dûkan

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
kûd-dûkan

Yup that's it :D

Yes Radagast, it's on the second to last page of Appendix F under "Hobbits":

Hobbit is an invention. In the Westron the word used, when this people was referred to at all, was banakil 'halfling'. But at this date the folk of the Shire and of Bree used the word kuduk, which was not found elsewhere. Meriadoc, however, actually records that the King of Rohan used the word kûd-dûkan 'hole-dweller'. Since, as has been noted, the Hobbits had once spoken a language closely related to that of the Rohirrim, it seems likely that kuduk was a worn-down form of kûd-dûkan.

:D

[brownjenkins]

what's another name for the Snowmen of Forochel?

[Keith K]

I made a riddle about that not too long ago.... the answer is the Lossath!

[brownjenkins]

very good...

love to hear the riddle... how bout this:

the strangest snowman you ever will meet,
i run on the ice with bones on my feet

:p

[Keith K]

Here's the riddle since you asked:

A remnant of an ancient race
We are said to be.
Folk call us strange and befriend us not,
Yet aid we give to thee.
For in our far-off land that lies
beyond the mighty bay,
We feed and shelter those poor souls
Whose paths have gone astray.
We run with bones upon our feet,
On lands with little sod.
Our wheel-less carts go to and fro
Where strangers seldom trod.

oops, I almost forgot to leave a new question...
What was Gimli's war cry, and what did it mean?

[Valandil]

Is it, "Khazad Aminu! Baruck Khazad!"

Meaning something like,"The axes of the dwarves are upon you!" ??

brownjenkins - you should take up the riddling thread too! Lots-o-fun! And Keith K is our "Resident Riddler"! :D

[Keith K]

Right, your go Valandil. As to the riddling thread, I haven't composed the next riddle yet, but I will take time out for one very soon. :)

[Valandil]

Keith - I need to contribute some more riddles myself. No need for you to feel the burden of trying to be a one-man show! :)

My question: (see first if anyone can get it without looking it up)

I am a King of Arthedain. My grandfather the King, and my father the King, were each killed in battle with Rhudaur and Angmar. On succeeding to the throne at a young age, I fought off our enemies with the help of our elven allies. Then I ruled in relative peace for 180 years.

Who am I?

[Radagast The Brown]

Arafor son of Arweleg son of Argeleb?

[Valandil]

YES! I'll take that. My edition only spells them a little differently: "Araphor" son of "Arveleg I"

Your turn Radagast... :cool:

[Keith K]

Arvedui? Nevermind, forgot to turn the page. :D

[brownjenkins]

great riddle keith... i will have to take a look at the other thread... i haven't visited entmoot for quite a while so i am doing a lot of reading :)

[Valandil]

OK - until Radagast gets the next question up... a little interlude for Appendix humor (not having to do with an actual appendicitis!)

Q: Which King of Arthedain eradicated all the Bugbears?

A: Arasol!

GET IT!?!???? :D ARASOL! BUGbears!!! Wha-wa-wah! I just amuse myself SO much!!! :D

[Keith K]

Are we morphing into the "bad pun page" now? Well, ok. Here's mine...

Q: Who was the poorest King of Gondor?
A: Earnil (get it?)(groan):rolleyes:

Q: Which King managed the most rental properties?
A: eLESSAR (groan)(even worse):rolleyes:

Q: Which King of Rohan owned the most popular taverns?
A: FREaWINE (groan)(godawful):p

[Radagast The Brown]

Who predicted that a woman will kill the Witch-king?

[Valandil]

I was gonna ask that - or something like it.

Hmmm... I don't think ANYONE predicted a woman would kill him - but it was Glorfindel who predicted that he would not be killed by a man. :)

[Radagast The Brown]

Yeah - I wanted to add that, but I was too lazy... :rolleyes:

your turn.

[Valandil]

Three of Aragorn's grandparents are named. Give those names and say which is which (ie: paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather, maternal grandmother).

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Three of Aragorn's grandparents are named. Give those names and say which is which (ie: paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather, maternal grandmother).

Arador, grandfather to Aragorn on his father's side
DÃ*rhael, grandfather to Aragorn on his mother's side
Ivorwen, grandmother to Aragorn on his mother's side

[Valandil]

Dunadain - that's right - your go!

Something tells me that you and I could go back-and-forth for a long time with questions on Arnor/Arthedain/Northern Chieftains! :) ... maybe it's our names!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Dunadain - that's right - your go!

Something tells me that you and I could go back-and-forth for a long time with questions on Arnor/Arthedain/Northern Chieftains! :) ... maybe it's our names!

hehe, what can I say, out of all Tolkien's characters my favorite are still of the race of Men :D

Question coming...

[Dúnedain]

Who had the longest reign of all the Kings of Gondor?

[Keith K]

Elessar?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Keith K
Elessar?

nope

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Hyarmendacil I?
134 years?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Hyarmendacil I?
134 years?

nope :D

[Valandil]

*sigh - had to look it up since this was going NOWHERE!*

Tarondor - 162 years (Meneldil close behind at 157 or so)

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
*sigh - had to look it up since this was going NOWHERE!*

Tarondor - 162 years (Meneldil close behind at 157 or so)

lol Finally someone gets it :D

Hey Val, should you just pm me the question since I will most likely be answering it? ;)

[Valandil]

Well... at least THIS way, everyone else can get a little more exposure to "the story behind the story"! Starting to realize how hard it is to come up with trivia questions from the books that are not just way too easy! Most people - even if they've read the appendices, don't exactly remember all the details. So this thread can be nice for learning more of those details - even if you have to look up the answers (and looking them up isn't as easy because they're not indexed! :D )

So, next question... and just in case it IS only you and me:

Elendil was descended from the Lords of Andunie... how was this family connected to the royal family of Numenor?

[Radagast The Brown]

He's a descendant of Valandil (:)), the first Andunie Lord in the west, that is the grandchild of Tar-Elendil.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well... at least THIS way, everyone else can get a little more exposure to "the story behind the story"! Starting to realize how hard it is to come up with trivia questions from the books that are not just way too easy! Most people - even if they've read the appendices, don't exactly remember all the details. So this thread can be nice for learning more of those details - even if you have to look up the answers (and looking them up isn't as easy because they're not indexed! :D )

So, next question... and just in case it IS only you and me:

Elendil was descended from the Lords of Andunie... how was this family connected to the royal family of Numenor?


I know this, but I will leave it for a little bit to see if someone else can answer :D (by the way, even though it is true that Elendil is descended from the Lords of Andunie, that term is often referred to the descendants of Elendil :D)

[brownjenkins]

Silmarien daughter, and eldest child, of Tar-Elendil could not succeed the throne of Numenor... she was the mother of Valandil, the first Lord of Andunie

[Radagast The Brown]

I was first! :p

[Valandil]

Radagast - I think I'll give you that! I was looking for Silmarrien (SP?) who was the mother of that Valandil and the daughter of the king - but that's just about implicit in your reply. Besides, to fish for it from here would make it too apparent.

Your go... :)

[EDIT: wow - 2 more posts came in while I was putting that one up... brownjenkins WAS more complete, but I guess I had given it to you. Will one of you graciously step aside, or do you want to fight it out?... I guess we COULD have a one-question, quiz-off!!!:D ]

[brownjenkins]

np... radagast's was up a second before mine... it's his :D

[Radagast The Brown]

Thanks.:) I skipped Silmarien, I didn;'t think she's important.

Which two dwarf lords was killed by a dragon, before the destruction of Erebor?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Thanks.:) I skipped Silmarien, I didn;'t think she's important.

Which two dwarf lords was killed by a dragon, before the destruction of Erebor?

Was it Dain I and his son Fror?

[Radagast The Brown]

Yes. :)

[Dúnedain]

:D


Which King of Rohan is it said that he was at strife with his marshals and with his children? He was also greedy of gold and food...

[Keith K]

I had to look that one up and discovered that Fengel is the answer.

[Dúnedain]

yup :D

[Keith K]

Where was Phurunargian located?
(okay, I'm really going into obscurity here but what the heck! :p

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Keith K
Where was Phurunargian located?
(okay, I'm really going into obscurity here but what the heck! :p

Isn't that another name for Moria?

[Keith K]

yes, and the answer is the Misty Mountains to be technical... :p

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Keith K
yes, and the answer is the Misty Mountains to be technical... :p

Actually to be technical, the other names of Phurunargian are:

The Black Chasm, The Black Pit, Dwarrowdelf, Hadhodrond, Moria, Khazad-dûm.

It lies in the central portion of the Misty Mountains, it isn't all of the Misty Mountains...:p

[Dúnedain]

What King of Gondor was also known by the name Vinitharya?

[Bacchus]

Eldacar, I believe

[Dúnedain]

Yup :D

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Actually to be technical, the other names of Phurunargian are:

The Black Chasm, The Black Pit, Dwarrowdelf, Hadhodrond, Moria, Khazad-dûm.

It lies in the central portion of the Misty Mountains, it isn't all of the Misty Mountains...:p

:p :p What I meant was that I had asked where it was located .:p :p :D not what the name meant.:p :D

[Valandil]

I already found (out) Dunedain is REAL good at being technical. Beat me at it once! :D

(EDIT: that was an odd typo - but I was holdin' the baby while typing!) :)

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
I already found at Dunedain is REAL good at being technical. Beat me at it once! :D


I know not what you speak of :p

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Valandil
Dunedain is REAL good at being technical.
In that case he would agree that the answer to my question is the Misty Mts. :D

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Keith K
In that case he would agree that the answer to my question is the Misty Mts. :D


hehe i misread it, but I am still right in a sense! :D

[Valandil]

Well ONE of you just ask the next question! Sheesh! :D

[Keith K]

Okay, okay. Dunedain did mention the mts. in his second answer so he is correct enough for me.

What was considered to be the worst disaster to occur in Gondor in all its history?

[Valandil]

I believe that was the Attack of the Wainriders, wasn't it? (if not, I got two other guesses - and think I know which it'd be)

If I'm right, I'll defer to Dunedain for the following question, since he got your other one right. :)

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Valandil
I believe that was the Attack of the Wainriders, wasn't it?
Nope, time to haul out another disaster. ;)

[Valandil]

The it HAD to be the Great Plague! That woulda been my first guess, but I was thinking the third chronologically was the worst... (see where Wrong Thinking gets ya!)

Say - weren't each of these disasters almost exactly 200 years apart? :eek:

[Keith K]

Great Plague it is...
Next Question?...

[Valandil]

Well... since Dunedain is still not here (HEY! Should we call him "Dunedude"?:D )...

Two Kings of Gondor bore the same name as a King of Arnor. Which two names were used once each by a King of both realms?

Dunedude will regret not being here for THIS one... (but DD, it IS your turn once you're back!)

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well... since Dunedain is still not here (HEY! Should we call him "Dunedude"?:D )...

Two Kings of Gondor bore the same name as a King of Arnor. Which two names were used once each by a King of both realms?

Dunedude will regret not being here for THIS one... (but DD, it IS your turn once you're back!)

Atanatar I and Atanatar II :D

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Atanatar I and Atanatar II :D

Nope! [Uh-oh... he's Baa-ack!! :D ]

Hint: two different names, both have already appeared in this thread... and neither starts with an "A".

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Nope! [Uh-oh... he's Baa-ack!! :D ]

Hint: two different names, both have already appeared in this thread... and neither starts with an "A".

Did I read your question wrong then?

"Two Kings of Gondor bore the same name as a King of Arnor." :confused:

Weren't there only 10 Kings of Arnor, now that I think of it?

[Valandil]

Yes, there were just 10 kings of Arnor - and two of their 10 names were also held by a king of Gondor... even discounting Elendil (who was just one person!)

It's actually your turn though... Keith K and I were just killing time - he had awarded you the one for Misty Mountains / Moria. Shall I just post my answer and you ask next - or do you want to keep trying on mine?

[Dúnedain]

Ok here is the dilemma, the same name of Kings are used for those who ruled as the Kings of Arthedain, the Chieftains of the Dúnedain and the Kings of Gondor. However there were only 10 Kings of Arnor, none of which had the same name. So I guess I am just confused by your question. At first I wasn't, but then when I thought about it more and went to look at the Kings of Arnor, I realized that it was a short listing...

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Yes, there were just 10 kings of Arnor - and two of their 10 names were also held by a king of Gondor... even discounting Elendil (who was just one person!)

It's actually your turn though... Keith K and I were just killing time - he had awarded you the one for Misty Mountains / Moria. Shall I just post my answer and you ask next - or do you want to keep trying on mine?

Oooooooooo that clears it up for me now :D

In that case it would be Eldacar and Tarondor...

[Valandil]

Sorry if the initial wording of the question was confusing, but you're right on the answer!

Uh... I think you get to go TWICE now! :D

[Dúnedain]

lol :D


Ok, which King of Durin's Folk was imprisoned in Dol Guldur and what was taken from him?

[Radagast The Brown]

Thrain. One of the seven rings of the dwarves was taken.

[Keith K]

Thrain II and the "last of the Seven"?
(dang, Radagast pre-empted me):mad:

[Dúnedain]

Well, technically Keith is right because he said Thrain II and said "the last of the seven rings" which is was...

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Well, technically Keith is right because he said Thrain II and said "the last of the seven rings" which is was... (But I meant to the same Thrain! And the fact tat he kept the last of the seven rings doesn't matter!)

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
(But I meant to the same Thrain! And the fact tat he kept the last of the seven rings doesn't matter!)

Sure it does, cuz it was the only ring that was left in Dwarven hands :D Plus the appendix says specifially "last of the seven rings" :p

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Sure it does, cuz it was the only ring that was left in Dwarven hands :D Plus the appendix says specifially "last of the seven rings" :p Maybe, but I didn't go to the appendix to check it. (I' not saying Keith did) I did remmber that it was the last of the seven. (honestly)

[Dúnedain]

hehe, well whatever you guys want to do, I was just being technical about the answer...:D

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
hehe, well whatever you guys want to do, I was just being technical about the answer...:D I have no problem, actually, that Keith will ask thew question. I just want to be right. :p

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I just want to be right. :p

Whew! Wait 'til he gets married! ;)

WHAT are the three little words that everyone loves to hear from their spouse?

[Keith K]

I did not look it up. I pulled it right outta the ol' memory banks. I've been reading the Appendices for a long time. I initially put just plain "Thrain", but at the last moment I heard warning bells in my head and added the II. :D So in that sense Radagast is correct. I was merely more specific. Still, I will ask the next question since the author of the last one has deferred to me.

What year (Shire Reckoning) saw the "wonderful summer and famous harvest?

[Valandil]

1420 S.R.

And the answer to mine... some would think it's: "I love you!"
The cynic (or jokester) in me says it's: "You were right!" :D

[Keith K]

Agreed.
BTW. 1420 is correct. ;)

[Valandil]

OK... back in the saddle!

Geography for 200:

Remember the Fell Winter? The following spring, a certain city was ruined by the resulting floods and subsequently abandoned. Name that city.

[Keith K]

Dang, I know that one. It is the city near the ford of Tharbad. I'm gonna have to look it up. It was a Numenorian city, one of the earliest of their settlements in ME.

[Dúnedain]

Keith was close, he just didn't say it correctly :D

It WAS the city of Tharbad :p

[Valandil]

Th-th...THAT'S correct folks!!! Your turn Dunedain... didja check out the link yet? :cool:

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Th-th...THAT'S correct folks!!! Your turn Dunedain... didja check out the link yet? :cool:

I have, but only briefly. I'm gonna try and look at it more this weekend :D

Question coming...

[Dúnedain]

Here goes :D


This may or may not be hard, not sure :p


For the Shire calendar, who did they take the "week" from?

[Valandil]

Why, the Numenoreans, of course! :D

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Why, the Numenoreans, of course! :D

Nope :D

[Valandil]

You sure? Cause the Numenoreans got it from the Elves, then fiddled with it a little - and I thought for sure that's where the hobbits picked it up...:confused:

[Radagast The Brown]

The Eldar?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
You sure? Cause the Numenoreans got it from the Elves, then fiddled with it a little - and I thought for sure that's where the hobbits picked it up...:confused:

I'm positive, there is a specific sentence that says it in one of the appendices :D

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The Eldar?


nope :p

[Keith K]

Hmm, the Breelanders?

[Valandil]

Should I have said... Dunedain?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Should I have said... Dunedain?

Indeed you should have, and it's Dúnedain :p

[Dúnedain]

Just to quote it, under Appendix D:

The Hobbit week was taken from the Dúnedain, and the names were translations of those given to the days in the old North-kingdom, which in their turn were derived from the Eldar.

:D

[Radagast The Brown]

With all the respect, you should've say 'Numenorians' is correct, becuase he obviously didn't mean to the Numenorians that lived in Numenore. (Right?)

[Valandil]

Sheesh - technicality... so LIKE you! :D And I don't know how to do the letter with those funny things over 'em... and they seem somehow quite "un-American" to me, you know! ;)

OK - let's do another calendar question:

Numenoreans / Dunedain had 7 days in their week: In order, from Saturday thru Friday, what did each day honor?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
With all the respect, you should've say 'Numenorians' is correct, becuase he obviously didn't mean to the Numenorians that lived in Numenore. (Right?)


The passage doesn't say numenorians. It says Dúnedain...Whether they are of Numenorian decent or not, has nothing to do with it. The shire calendar wasn't changed because someone from Numenor came to Middle Earth to fix it for them, it was changed from the Dúnedain who were residing in the old Northern Kingdom...

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
The passage doesn't say numenorians. It says Dúnedain...Whether they are of Numenorian decent or not, has nothing to do with it. The shire calendar wasn't changed because someone from Numenor came to Middle Earth to fix it for them, it was changed from the Dúnedain who were residing in the old Northern Kingdom... And he didn't mean the Numenorians did. Stop being so technical, if you can.... so he wasn't precise... big deal! Correct him, but don't say that it's wrong (it wasn't precisely correct, not wrong.)

Yeah.. now let's stop arguing(sp.) here. Valandil ask a question!

[Valandil]

Rad-t-Brown,

Look up, I already did!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
And he didn't mean the Numenorians did. Stop being so technical, if you can.... so he wasn't precise... big deal! Correct him, but don't say that it's wrong (it wasn't precisely correct, not wrong.)

Yeah.. now let's stop arguing(sp.) here. Valandil ask a question!

I'm not being technical, I am going by what the actual text says, jeez...

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Valandil
Rad-t-Brown,

Look up, I already did! Ack! :o Sorry.

I'm not sure... not sure what you meant...

Sterrendei - stars, Sunnendei - sun, Monendei - moon, Trewesdei - trees, Hevenesdei - sky, Meresdi - sea, Highdei - chief days???

[Valandil]

You HAD to peek for all that! :) It's OK though.:cool:

I'll say correct - my version calls the 'Friday' equivalent a "high day" - rather than "chief" - I'm going off memory here, but I think it refers to the Valar.

There's an interesting distinction in the "trees" day from the Elvish to the Numenorean, but we can save that for another trivia question one day! (and I won't count off for that one today!)

Oh - Dunedain... I guess I've generally considered "Numenorean" and "Dunedain" to be synonymous... maybe they technically are not though. I'll have to dig into the uses there - or do you know off-hand; are the "Dunedain" defined as "Numenoreans in Exile" - ie, after the Akabelleth (SP?)??? JRRT does so much duplicate naming of peoples and persons...

Radagast the Brown: your go!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Oh - Dunedain... I guess I've generally considered "Numenorean" and "Dunedain" to be synonymous... maybe they technically are not though. I'll have to dig into the uses there - or do you know off-hand; are the "Dunedain" defined as "Numenoreans in Exile" - ie, after the Akabelleth (SP?)??? JRRT does so much duplicate naming of peoples and persons...

There is no doubt they are of the same people, in Middle Earth they are hardly if ever called Númenoreans, they are referred to either the "descendants of Númenor" or "the Dúnedain" and things like that.

Basically this is the best way to explain it:

Dúnedain is a term used in Middle-earth for the Men of Númenor and (especially) their descendants in Arnor and Gondor...

[Valandil]

Hmmm... yes, I guess those in Umbar, for instance, were called "Black Numenoreans" (not from their skin tone - but from being of the "King's Men" persuasion - in rebellion attitude-wise to the Valar) - and never seem to be included in the term "Dunedain"

[Radagast The Brown]

Dunedain = The Edain of the West, people of Nuenore and their descendants in Middle Earth. (as you said Dunedain)

Nuenorians = people of Numenore, (obviously).

So there is a difference definition.

The Black Numenorian = Numenorioans from the King Loyals and Eldar Haters, that settled in Middle Earth, especially in Umbar; enemies of Gondor. (from my index in LOTR)

Edit - Question: Who is Fram?

[Keith K]

Fram was the son of Frumgar. A northman from the vales of Anduin. He killed a dragon (Scatha) and kept the loot.

[Radagast The Brown]

Right! :)

[Keith K]

Who did the Nazgul pass over at Dol Baran?

[Valandil]

Shouldn't that be "whom"? ;)

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Valandil
Shouldn't that be "whom"? ;)
Jeesh :rolleyes:

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Keith K
Jeesh :rolleyes:
Sorry... getting a little 'carried away' (hopefully NOT by a Nazgul!)

I actually wasn't sure of what the location was called (which is maybe why I dodged instead of playing) - but now I'll go with my first impression: Was that where one passed over the fellowship (now of 8 - less only Gandalf) when they were boating down the Anduin? And Legolas fired up an arrow...??

[Keith K]

Nope, that is incorrect. The location was why I picked that particular question. I had not heard of it either.

[Bacchus]

Originally posted by Keith K
Who did the Nazgul pass over at Dol Baran?
The party returning from Isengard (Theoden, Gandalf, Merry, Pippin, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Eomer, and assorted guards). Two nazgul passed over.

[Keith K]

Yes, Bacchus is right. Your turn Bacchus (after you pass the wine).

[Bacchus]

How, specifically, did the Dwarves express their displeasure with Azog?

[Valandil]

I believe they lopped off his head, likely mounted it on a pole (such a common practice!) and crammed into his mouth the bag of money he had tossed out to Nar, after throwing out Thror's carcass, as "payment" for carrying his message back to the dwarves.

Or something like that?

(don't get a dwarf mad at you!) :)

[Bacchus]

we have a winner. yer up

[Valandil]

Which King of Rohan lost his two eldest (twin) sons, when they died defending Gondor?

[Keith K]

hmm, Folcwine?

[Valandil]

Folcwine it is! He was Theoden's great-grandpa - so Theoden's grandpa was younger brother to the twins!

Your post Keith!

[Keith K]

Oh man, I pulled that one right out of my ah, er, ...hat! Lucky guess for me that time.

Q: Under what king did Gondor reach the height of its power?

[Valandil]

Hyarmendicil I?

[Keith K]

Correct Valandil.

[Valandil]

Thorin had a sister (mother of Fili and Kili) and a brother. What was his brother's name, and what ever became of him?

[Keith K]

Was it Frerin? Not really sure... and I have no idea of his fate.

[Radagast The Brown]

Frerin was killed in Nanduhirion?

[Dúnedain]

Nevermind I read the question wrong :D

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Frerin was killed in Nanduhirion?

Yes - it's Frerin, and that was his end. Had to look up that name - I know the battle by the dwarf name - Azanulbizar... but an Elvish name is acceptable for about anything in Middle earth, eh?

Your turn Radagast... say, you're good at these dwarvish questions, aren't you? :)

[Radagast The Brown]

I looked it up. (as if you didn't know) :rolleyes:

Who, from the Kings of Gondor, was called Alcarin (sp.), and what is the meaning of the name?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I looked it up. (as if you didn't know) :rolleyes:

Who, from the Kings of Gondor, was called Alcarin (sp.), and what is the meaning of the name?

Atanatar II :D

He kinda ties into another previous question, because he was the son of Hyarmendacil I. The other question asked which King of Gondor ruled during it's highest point. You could have also said it was Atanatar because the name "Alcarin" means "Glorious" and is sometimes called Gondor's greatest King, because during his rule Gondor was at it's height, even though his father help get it there :D

[Radagast The Brown]

Correct! :)

[Dúnedain]

When King Elessar rode North, what did he give to Master Samwise on the Brandywine Bridge?

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
When King Elessar rode North, what did he give to Master Samwise on the Brandywine Bridge? The rumor is that he gave him the Elendilmir, (but I doubt that he would give him something that was tied so closely to his family).

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Keith K
The rumor is that he gave him the Elendilmir, (but I doubt that he would give him something that was tied so closely to his family).

Yup. Actually this could very well be true, because Saruman found the Elendilmir that Isildur was wearing when he was killed at the Gladden Fields. When Saruman was looking for the ring, he found the original Elendilmir, and when Aragorn went back to retake Orthanc they found it in a hidden room. The Elendilmir that Aragorn had was one that was made in Rivendell for the surviving heir...:D

[Keith K]

That's right, there were two of them. That makes it more plausible (that Aragorn would part with one). That might make an interesting thread subject. I don't suppose the 2nd one had the powers of the first one. That one is documented as blazing brightly as if it had power of some sort. It even could not be subdued by the One Ring.

[Valandil]

Hey Guys, I think the appendix actually says that Aragorn gave Sam, "The Star of the Dunedain"... now THIS is getting outside of the appendix, but I wonder if that was something BESIDES either one of the Elendilmir. UT tells about the two Elendilmir and the different uses that Aragorn made of each one. As important as the shire-folk were to Aragorn, I don't know if he'd have parted with one of the Elendilmir so readily. I think there's even some discussion about that which I read (maybe also in the notes in UT? Or somewhere else???) that thinks it unlikely. Alternately, I wonder if what he actually gave Sam was the same emblem worn by each of the rangers (including Halbarad) who join Aragorn in Rohan... and if that was perhaps a token of their service to him. Maybe even a "badge" of sorts.

What do you guys think?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Valandil
Hey Guys, I think the appendix actually says that Aragorn gave Sam, "The Star of the Dunedain"... now THIS is getting outside of the appendix, but I wonder if that was something BESIDES either one of the Elendilmir. UT tells about the two Elendilmir and the different uses that Aragorn made of each one. As important as the shire-folk were to Aragorn, I don't know if he'd have parted with one of the Elendilmir so readily. I think there's even some discussion about that which I read (maybe also in the notes in UT? Or somewhere else???) that thinks it unlikely. Alternately, I wonder if what he actually gave Sam was the same emblem worn by each of the rangers (including Halbarad) who join Aragorn in Rohan... and if that was perhaps a token of their service to him. Maybe even a "badge" of sorts.

What do you guys think?

The Star of the Dúnedain is the Elendilmir bro...:D

Yes I believe UT does talk about it. The opinion that Aragorn didn't give Sam the Elendilmir was that of Christopher Tolkien, not JRR as I recall, so for me he doesn't count :p JRR said Aragorn gave it to Sam, so that's enough for me :D

Also, about the radiance of it as Keith addressed, the original Elendilmir was much more extranvagant and it shone much brighter and clearly than the one made in Rivendell, even though that was gorgeous in and of itself as it is described. It is stated that the two could not be mistaken and that the original was better, but Aragorn grew to like the one made in Rivendell due to the tradition of his immediate descendants bearing it...

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Also, about the radiance of it as Keith addressed, the original Elendilmir was much more extranvagant and it shone much brighter and clearly than the one made in Rivendell, even though that was gorgeous in and of itself as it is described. It is stated that the two could not be mistaken and that the original was better, but Aragorn grew to like the one made in Rivendell due to the tradition of his immediate descendants bearing it...
What is the source of that information? I would like to read it.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Keith K
What is the source of that information? I would like to read it.

I'll have to look, but I think it is in Unfinished Tales and in the Appendix for LotR's as well. Gimme a little bit to find it :D

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I'll have to look, but I think it is in Unfinished Tales and in the Appendix for LotR's as well. Gimme a little bit to find it :D
OK, thanks. :)

[Keith K]

I reckon it's my turn for a Q...

What was Meriadoc's nickname after his return to the Shire?

[Dúnedain]

Ok here are a couple things relating to it:

Unfinished Tales: Disaster of the Gladden Fields from "The sources of the legend of Isildur's death":

But King Elessar, when he was crowned in Gondor, began the re-ordering of his realm, and one of his first tasks was the palantir recovered from Saruman. Then all the secrets of the tower were searched. Many things of worth were found, jewels and heirlooms of Eorl, filched from Edoras by the agency of Wormtongue during King Théoden's decline, and other such things, more ancient and beautiful, from the mounds and tombs far and wide. Saruman in his degradation had become not a dragon but a jackdaw. At last behind a hidden door that they could not have found or opened had not Elessar had the aid of Gimli the Dwarf a steel closet was revealed. Maybe it had been intended to receive the Ring; but it was almost bare. In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid. one was a small case of gold, attached to a fine chain; it was empty, and bore no letter or token, but beyond all doubt it had once borned the Ring about Isildur's neck. Next to it lay a treaure without price, long mourned as lost forever: the Elendilmir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil, and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom.(32) Every king and the chieftains that followed them in Arnor had borned the Elendilmir down even to Elessar himself; but though it was a jewel of great beauty, made by the Elven-smiths in Imladris for Valandil Isildur's son, it had not the ancientry nor the potency of the one that had been lost when Isildur fled into the dark and came back no more.

Elessar took it up with reverence, and when he returned to the North and took up again the full kingship of Arnor Arwen bound it upon his brow, and men were silent in amaze to see its splendour. But Elessar did not again imperil it, and wore it only on high days in the North Kingdom. Otherwise, when in kingly raiment he bore the Elendilmir which had descended to him. "And this also is thing of reverence," he said, "and above my worth; forty heads have worn it before."(33)


Unfinished Tales: Disaster of the Gladden Fields in the "Notes" Section:

Note 32; It is told in "Aldarion and Erendis" that Erendis caused the diamond which Aldarion brought to her from Middle-earth "to be set as a star in a silver fillet; and at her asking he bound it on her forehead." For this reason she was known as Tar-Elestirnë, the Lady of the Star-brow; "and thus came, it is said, the manner of Kings and Queens afterward to wear as a star a white jewel upon the brow, and they had no crown". This tradition cannot be unconnected with that of the Elendilmir, a star-life gem borne on the brow as a token of royalty in Arnor; but the original Elendilmir itself, since it belonged to Silmarien, was in existence in Númenor (whatever its origin may have been) before Aldarion brought Erendis' jewel from Middle-earth, and they cannot be the same.

Note 33; The actual number was thirty-eight, since the second Elendilmir was made for Valandil. In the Tale of Years in Appendix B to The Lord of the Rings the entry for the year 16 of the Fourth Age (give under Shire Reckoning 1436) states that when King Elessar came to the Brandywine Bridge to greet his friends he gave the Star of the Dúnedain to Master Samwise, while his daughter Elanor was made a maid of honour to Queen Arwen. On the basis of this record Mr. Robert Foster says in The Complete Guide to Middle-earth that "the Star [of Elendil] was worn on the brow of the Kings of the North-kingdom until Elessar gave it to Sam Gamgee in the Fourth Age 16." The clear implication of the present passage is that King Elessar retained indefinitely the Elendilmir that was made for Valadil; and it seems to me in any case out of the question that he would have made a gift of it to the Mayor of the Shire, however greatly he esteemed him. The Elendilmir is called by several names: The Star of Elendil, The Star of the North, the Star of the Northkingdom; and the Star of the Dúnedain (occurring only in this entry in the Tale of Years) is assumed to be yet another both in Robert Foster's Guide and in J. E. A. Tyler's Tolkien Companion. I have found no other reference to it; but it seems to me to be almost certain that it was not, and that Master Samwise received some different (and more suitable) distinction.

There you have it. I find it humorous that Christopher Tolkien says Samwise didn't receive that gift, but yet his father J.R.R. Tolkien says he did...:p

[Keith K]

Thankyou for posting that Dunedain, you leave me deep in your debt. :)

[Keith K]

I've given CT's comment some thought and I was inclined to agree with him, as I had always felt that the appendix reference to giving it as a gift just seemed improbable considering the Elendilmir's value. I had doubted it the first time I had read it. There is always an "out" concerning inconsistencies in the text. It is not first hand information but is actually a copy of the Red Book of Westmarch" and as such vulnerable to revisionism of history. Plus the Red Book is biased to a hobbit perspective of history in the first place.

Of course that viewpoint (Elendilmir as gift) was based only on the Red Book which we all know as Lord of the Rings. Since we now have new sources of information ( Unfinished Tales, the Silmirillion, etc). I believe that the Elendilmir was given as a gift. It is not unprecedented to do this with items of worth. The Ring of Barahir comes to mind for one. Also, IMHO since Sam was the greatest of all characters in the books he deserves it more than anyone else! :D

PS: I hope we are not remiss in getting off subject from the trivia questions. Valandil opened it up in the first place and it is "his" thread. :D

[Valandil]

So much FUN to dicker over fictitious history, when it's all... fictitious!!:D

btw Keith, you really have me stumped on that Meriadoc question... just might have to look it up! Meanwhile, some guesses:

'Witch King Killer'

'Hero of the Battle of Bywater'

'Blower of the Silver Horn'

[Keith K]

Wrong
More Wrong
Totally Out There
:D

[Dúnedain]

Was it Meriadoc The Magnificent?

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Was it Meriadoc The Magnificent?
That's the one!

[Dúnedain]

Man I rule :p

lol, ok here's mine:


How old were Arwen and Aragorn when they met for the first? :D

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
How old were Arwen and Aragorn when they met for the first? :D

OK, lessee...

Aragorn, 20
Arwen, 2710

[Dúnedain]

Damn that was quick! lol

You're right :D

[Valandil]

And you must keep your ring of invisibility on around here, huh? Never on, always posting...

Say... noticed that the Elendilmir is called "The Star of Elendil" in App. A - and it does say Aragorn gave Sam "The Star of the Dunedain" in App. B... maybe they WERE two different things...?:D Note also in the RotK chapter "Passing of the Grey Company"(all rise please): 'A little apart the Rangers sat,... ...nor did (they) bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like
a rayed star. So... I still think THAT could be the SotD, rather than the Elendilmir being the SotD...

Anyway - guess I owe a question in addition to all the remarks: :D

Who was the first Chieftain of the Dunedain?

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Valandil
Who was the first Chieftain of the Dunedain?
Uh, Arvedui's son? :D

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Keith K
Uh, Arvedui's son? :D

correct so far... ;)

[Keith K]

okay, I looked it up...it is Aranarth.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Keith K
okay, I looked it up...it is Aranarth.

Glad you did... gotta go away for an extended Thanksgiving weekend - and won't have access to my comp-mooter! :)

Ask away...