Favorite Elf-King?

[Mandos]

Who is your favorite Elf-King? Personally, I'd have to say Finrod Felagund.

[Captain Stern]

Feanor, he's my favorite character of all so by default he's my favorite Elf King.

[X Rogue]

Fingolfin. Steady and courageous.

[Inoldonil]

Good question. If Finarfin (Finwe Arafinwe) was counted as King I would probably pick him.

After much decision changing I think I'll go with Denethor son of Lenwe.

[easterlinge]

King Elu Thingol of Doriath gets my vote.

After all, if even a Maia is attracted to him, he must be quite something, right? And I like the way he stood up to the uppity Feanorians.

[Inoldonil]

Yeah, I almost voted for Thingol myself.

[easterlinge]

Although of course, Thingol was a little bit of a racist at first (he looked down on mortal Men). But what do you expect of Elf rednecks in the backwoods of Beleriand?

Later he became a Equal Opp. Employer, taking in Men in his service.

:lol:

[Mandos]

He also looked down on Dwarves.

[Angloril]

I'd have to say Turgon, for creating the jewel of Middle-Earth:

Gondolin, The Hidden Rock. (*curses Maeglin yet another time*)

But I love them all. Each is necessary to the story.


-- Hello by the way. My pleasure.

[Mandos]

How can you love Maeglin! He is pure evil! He caused the downfall of the best kingdom in Beleriand!

[anduin]

Angloril you are a Sapling until you make at least 3 posts. On your 4th post you will become a Hobbit. After 50 posts you will become a Enting. After 100 posts you are an Elf Lord. And finally if you make over 500 posts you will become an Elf lord, or you maybe given a title of your choosing if you so wish.

So, with that, I welcome you to the Entmoot! :)

[Angloril]

Thank you, Anduin. (I just don't seem to grasp the promotion from Elf Lord to Elf lord... ;-)

Mandos, calm yourself and read again. I think you got it wrong...

[Mandos]

Oh. Hehe. Sorry, I guess I overreacted

[Inoldonil]

One of those Elf Lords should be an Elven Warrior. You'd think I'd know which, but well, the thoughts of Great Trees are strange to men (and women)! Yeah, that's it. ;)

[edited: I just realized the name of the person I was speaking to. Surely this isn't the beloved Dragon of the Vault?]

[easygreen]

Thingol as he's presented in the Narn I Hin-Hurin is a wise and generous king. Kind and just. Melian has a lot to do with that. Also the love and sacrifice of Beren and Luthian. He's the one I'd want to serve if I were transported to Beleriand in the First Age.

The House of Finarfin is also pretty cool. Guess it's the Telerin strain.

[Alixor]

My user name usually on Tolkien boards, High King Ingwe Lord of the Vanyar, King of Elves.

[Idril Celebrindal]

Finrod Felagund.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Definately Finrod Felagund

[afro-elf]

Fingolfin

Too tired to write why.

[noldorlord]

Fingolfin, definitely.

[Lightice]

Elu Thingol. In his later days, he seemed to be most righteous king in Arda. In the beginning he was a bit mean, though.
And those dwarves weren't nice people at all...Killing the king first, and then telling to their families at home, that elves stole their treasure!

[Earniel]

I would go for Turgon. I absolutely loved the idea of Gondolin, being hidden somewhere in the mountains.

[Foul_Dwimmerlaik]

Feanor...if you can get past all the Kinslaying and dooming his people to misery stuff. :)

[Butterburr]

A tie between Turgon and Finrod Felagund

[Butterburr]

btw, dosen't almost everyone except hobbits look down on dwarfs?:p

[afro-elf]

OUCH!

[Elvellon]

Finrod Felagund

[Wayfarer]

That Felagund character has always been a favorite of mine as well.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Very good choice.:)

[Michael Martinez]

Poor Gil-galad doesn't seem to be very popular at all. I will cast a vote for him.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez
Poor Gil-galad doesn't seem to be very popular at all. I will cast a vote for him. Yeah, he ws a good guy. If I could only keep track of all his dads.

[Michael Martinez]

He IS sort of the Heimdall (nine mothers) of Middle-earth, is he not? :)

[afro-elf]

He( GIL) would be my second and Findrod my third.

As stated Fingolfin is my first. I guess I'm a sucker for the heroic end.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yeah, he ws a good guy. If I could only keep track of all his dads.

DADS? As in plural? Is this just another thing Tolkien never had the time to straighten out or do I really don't want to know this?

[bropous]

I guess my favorite of the elven Kings would be Fingolfin. I really was won over when, seeing that the Noldor would be defeated, Fingolfin rode across the An-Fauglith to the Gates of Angbad and blew his horn, challenging Morgoth to single combat.

Although he died in the ensuing melee, the fact he had just had enough of the Great Enemy butchering his people and went to finally "face his demons," as it were, calling Morgoth on the steps of his own fortress "craven" and a "coward", makes Fingolfin an elf after me own heart. Fingolfin may not have shown a lot of sense in riding off to challenge the greatest and most powerful of the Valar in mortal one-on-one combat, the fact he did not blanch or quail in the face of a much mightier opponent makes him, for me, my favorite Elf-King.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Eärniel


DADS? As in plural? Is this just another thing Tolkien never had the time to straighten out or do I really don't want to know this? Well, this is the professor changing his mind again. There are several versions of Gil-galads parentage. The Sil. says Fingon was his father. There was a point I believe, (not positive) that Finrod Felagund was his father, and then the final version is that Orodreth is his father, but then the parentage of Orodreth changed aswell and he is now Finrod Felagunds nephew instead of his brother, being now the son of Angrod.

D'ya get all that?:confused:

[bropous]

Hmmmm, SisterGoldenHair, I wasn't aware there was confusion as to either Gil-Galad's [Ereinion's] or Orodoreth's lineage. I just refer to the genealogical chart in the back of the Silmarillion [page 379, "The House of Finwe and the Noldorin descent of Elrond and Elros"] for reference. There it lists Gil-Galad/Ereinion as Fingon's son, and Orodreth as Finarfin's son. Also in the Index of Names, this lineage is repeated. However, I am curious: Do you recall perhaps where it might have been indicated otherwise?

By the way, Foul_Dwimmerlaik: A belated "Welcome to the Moot!"

[Sister Golden Hair]

Most of this appears in the HoMe. some of it in Morgoth's Ring. Inoldonil can probably tell you exactly where. One interesting point is that in Unfinished Tales the brothers of Galadriel are listed excluding Orodreth.

[bropous]

Ah, I see, SisterGoldenHair. But this brings up an old question: If it says one thing in The Silmarillion, and another in the History of Middle-Earth, which one is "right," or maybe more precisely, which is "more correct"? Do we simply say it's inconsistent and not really answerable, or is one considered more reliable than the other. I don't really know.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by bropous
Ah, I see, SisterGoldenHair. But this brings up an old question: If it says one thing in The Silmarillion, and another in the History of Middle-Earth, which one is "right," or maybe more precisely, which is "more correct"? Do we simply say it's inconsistent and not really answerable, or is one considered more reliable than the other. I don't really know. The final version is most likely the way Tolkien meant it to be, unless he was planning more changes and did not live to make them. As for which version is correct, I guess it's a matter of what's correct for you. I have always leaned towards the version in the Sil, since it was the first one and out of the text I grew to love. So, no version is right or wrong. Of course, it is my understanding that the parentage of Orodreth in the Sil. was an error on the part of CT and that Tolkien had never intended him to be the son of Finarfin. How accurate this is, I do not know.

[Nariel Starfire]

I vote for Thranduil because if not for him, we wouldn't have Legolas

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
D'ya get all that?:confused:

Thanks for the enlightenment Sister Golden Hair, somehow I find myself able to say only one word to this: YIKES!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Eärniel


Thanks for the enlightenment Sister Golden Hair, somehow I find myself able to say only one word to this: YIKES! Yeah, it's very confusing. I'm still confused and probably always will be nomatter how many time it's explained.YIKES is right.

[bropous]

Good points, SisterGoldenHair. Looks like, in the end, it pretty much ends up being a subjective matter [which is the more correct] or just unimportant altogether. ;)

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
, no version is right or wrong. Of course, it is my understanding that the parentage of Orodreth in the Sil. was an error on the part of CT and that Tolkien had never intended him to be the son of Finarfin. How accurate this is, I do not know.

Christopher makes it clear that what he published in The Silmarillion is wrong. The correct genealogy, and the only one he should have used in The Silmarillion, makes Gil-galad the son of Orodreth, and Orodreth the son of Angrod.

[Sister Golden Hair]

That's what I thought.:(

[Tar-Elenion]

I originally posted this on the rec.arts.books.tolkien newsgroup.

------------------------------------------
This is intended to be a 'primary world' history of the parentage of Orodreth and Gil-galad and related matters.
It seems that Orodreth is the son of Finarfin (who was earlier named Finrod), third son (and fifth child) of Finwe, up through 1958. He appears as such in the 'Annals of Aman' (HoME 10), the 'Later Quenta Silmarillion (I)' (HoME 10 and 11), and the 'Grey Annals' (HoME 11). These were initially written in ca. 1950-1952. Corrections and
emendations were made to these manuscripts and amanuensis typescripts, including these changes, were made in 1958. Finarfin in these typescripts is still called Finrod and Finrod Felagund is named Inglor.
Later JRRT begins to emend these typescripts with changes including the names of Finrod and Inglor to Finarfin and Finrod and indications of the removal of Orodreth from among Finarfin's children. Finarfin is named Arafinwe in the earlier versions of 'Finwe and Miriel' which are
dated to 1958 or earlier. The first unaltered appearence of the name: Finarfin (or Finarphin) is in the later versions of 'Finwe and Miriel' and the 'Later Quenta Silmarillion (II)' dated to 1959 (or later); while Finrod (for previously Inglor) is in the 'Athrabeth' also dated to 1959 (or later). In the 'Elessar' essay (UT) Galadriel refers to
herself as the last of Finrod's children, and names Angrod, Aegnor and Felagund as the others but fails to mention Orodreth, who CT notes was removed and placed a generation down.
Gil-galad first appears as a Feanorian (of unknown descent) in the Fall of Numenor (II) (HoME 5). This is dated to not later than 1937. In the original (I) versions of Many Meetings/Council of Elrond (At Rivendell, HoME VI), dated to December 1938, Elrond states that Gil-galad is a
descendant of Feanor (which ties in with the original FNII). On an 'isolated' sheet associated with (III) version Gil-galad is said to be son of 'Fin...' where the writing is illegible (CT notes that the fourth letter is _possibly_ an 'r' but the name is definitely not Finrod), this is struck out and 'Inglor?' is written in, this possibly dates to 1939 or early 1940 (HoME VII). Though marked with a query this agrees with the (III) version which has Gil-galad as son of Felagund seemingly through its association with the new ending to the Fall of Numenor II which was revised at the time of the writing of the third version of the Council of Elrond. In an early alteration to the Quenta
Silmarillion text of HoME V, Felagund is mentioned as having a wife (Meril) and their son is Gil-galad. In the T3 version of the Tale of Years (of the Second Age) Gil-galad is the son of Felagund and this is also the case with 'Of the Rings of Power'. 'RoP' was extant (in versions) by 1948 (L. 115), while the 'T3' version is no later than August of '50 and was likely written in 1949 (PoME).

At this point it seems that we have Orodreth as the son of Finarfin (or rather Finrod) through 1958. Gil-galad is a Feanorian from ca. 1937 through ca. 1939. Gil-galad is the son of Finrod (or rather Inglor) Felagund from ca. 1940 until ca. 1949.

In the Gray Annals it is said that Felagund had no wife and this is consistant with Annals of Aman and the Later Quenta Silmarillion. That Felagund had no wife is maintained up until Dec. 1959.

In a 'pencilled note' on the amanuensis typescript of the Grey Annals Fingon is noted as the father of Gil-galad.

In a note (likely dated to Dec. 1959) to the genealogies (Finrod) Felagund is again given a son, Artanaro Rhodothir, otherwise known as Orodreth father of Finduilas. Later JRRT noted that Finrod had no child and had left his wife in Aman. At this point Orodreth is now made the
son of Angrod (and renamed Artaresto) (PoME).

Now referring back to the 'Elessar' essay which must date from the time before 'Inglor' became 'Finrod' as Finrod (ie Finarfin) is her father but after or about the time Orodreth is made her nephew. That would tend to date the Elessar essay to late 1959 or 1960 (which may indicate
that the 'Athrabeth' should be dated into 1960 as it seems that name Finrod was not given to Inglor until after Orodreth had been removed as his brother).

In 'Aldarion and Erendis' Gil-galad is named 'Finellach Gil-galad of the House of Finarfin'. In UT CT dates this work to 1965, though in PoME he says this might be dated to 1960. JRRT notes this work as 'nearly complete' in September of 1965 (L. 276). It seems that this must be later than the 'Elessar' story (as Finarfin is used for
Finrod). But it is not impossible that Finarfin maintained the name Finrod for a time as well before it was decided that Felagund should receive it. Gil-galad is also called Finellach the 'Description of the Island of Numenor'.

It is not noted what parentage Gil-galad had as 'Finellach', though CT notes this preceded by some time the making of Gil-galad into the son of Orodreth, which happened in August of 1965 when 'scribbled at great
speed' a note, suggesting that Gil-galad (here named Rodnor/Artanaro) should be the son Orodreth (Artaresto), son of Angrod, was written.

In the Elessar essay Celebrimbor is noted as a jewel smith of Gondolin, though in a note JRRT wrote against that essay he says it would be better to make Celebrimbor a descendant of Feanor (PoME). This happened with the Second Edition of RotK (1966). JRRT noted in one of his copies of this edition that Celebrimbor had grown to love Finrod and his
(unnamed) wife while dwelling s refugee in Nargothrond.

In the 1968 Shibboleth of Feanor, Orodreth is noted as 'Artaher' the son of Angarato (Angrod) and Eldalote. Gil-galad (Ereinion) is referred to with the Finarfinians and in a footnote is said to be the son of Artaher.

Orodreth is son of Finarfin until (it seems) 1959. Towards the end of 1959 he is made the son of Finrod Felagund. But this is then emended to the son of Angrod, since Finrod had no wife. However in an undated note on a 1966 copy of RotK Finrod is said to have a wife (in Nargothrond). In the Shibboleth there is no mention of his having a wife. Through the 1950's Gil-galad was no longer Finrod's son as Finrod had no wife, and he was noted as the son of Fingon on the 1958 typescript. Gil-galad returns to being a Finarfinian in the '60's (possibly as late as 1965
or as early as 1960). But who was his father considered to be in the Aldarion and Erendis essay, before he was made the son of Orodreth? We only have him being of the 'House of Finarfin'. When was the note made on the Second Edition of RotK that suggests Finrod did have a wife in exile? What was Gil-galad's lineage when he was descended from Feanor?


Tar-Elenion

--
He is a warrior and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
--------------------------------

[Sister Golden Hair]

I like your signature Tar-Elenion. I just noticed it.

[Tar-Elenion]

I just noticed that I have two in that post. Which one were you referring to? :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Tar-Elenion
I just noticed that I have two in that post. Which one were you referring to? :) The one from the Athrabeth.

[Earniel]

Thank you Tar-Elenion, I think that explains it all... I think (sorry, just finished my exams today, my brain still needs some poking to come out of hibernation)

[Radagast The Brown]

I'm answered on the original question:

I liked more then all the king elves Fingolfin because he was bether and smarter then Feanor and stronger then Finarfin. I liked the way he fighted with Melkor.:rolleyes:

[Finrod Felagund]

Finrod Felagund definitely. His grandfather was of the Noldor, his Grandmother was of the Vanyar and his mother was a Teleri. He also first met mortal men and was willing to give up his life for his friend Beren. What a guy!

[Finrod Felagund]

Finwe was the first king of the Noldor. His sons were Feanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin.
Finarfin's children were Finrod (Felagund), Galadriel, Angrod, Aegnor and Orodreth.
Fingolfin's children were Fingon, Turgon and their sister (can't remember her name, the mother of Maeglin)
We know Feanor's seven sons of course but his seemingly only grandson was Celebrimbor, who made the three rings.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, as has been stated many times before, in the end Orodreth is not Finrod Felagund's brother. This was a mistake that was made by C.T. in the Silmarillion, and later corrected.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Fingolfin's children were Fingon, Turgon and their sister (can't remember her name, the mother of Maeglin)


Aredhel Ar-Feiniel:)

[Ñólendil]

Fingolfin had another son most people don't know about. You can read about him in The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Shibboleth of Fëanor. He was the youngest, tallest and most impetuous of Fingolfin's children. His name was Argon. He perished in The Battle of the Lammoth, which according to the Shibboleth occured when the Orcs of Morgoth attacked Fingolfin's host, new-come to Middle-earth. He died a valiant death, before the Quenya names of the Exiles were translated into Grey-elven, but in memory of him he was called Argon. (He was known as Aracáno in Valinor).

According to the Silmarillion as published, there was no Argon and there was no Battle of the Lammoth. Fingolfin's host therin passed unopposed to Hithlum. I accept the version set out above because it's the later one.

[Liviaine]

My favorite would be Thranduil because of Legolas, but we don't know much about him in comparison to some others. Other than him, I don't know.

[Finrod Felagund]

Conversation with my dad

Finrod:Who's your favourite elf-king?

Dad: Feanor. Yeah he had a bad temper but he made so much cool stuff and was the greatest of the elves
I like the grey forest king too

Finrod: THingol? you know Elwe?

Dad: No

Finrod: Not Thingol?

Dad: Oh yeah! I thought you said Fingol.

[MasterMothra]

my pick would be fingolfin. he had the courage to take on an impossible task in facing the master.
second would be feanor. his oratory skill is most impressive. he persueded the noldor to turn their back on the valar, declare war on morgoth, obliterate his kin to take their boats, leave his brother on the banks and create one of the most prized posessions in the silmirils.

[Finrod Felagund]

By the way Liviaine, Thranduil is the elf-king in the hobbit in which he dosn't exactly exemplify the best of elven traits but then I can see how the spiders, orcs and even dwarves would get on his nerves.

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

My favourite Elven King is Thranduil.

[Maedhros]

As my favourite elven ruler, I would have to choose the first son of the first prince of the Ñoldor. Maedhros.:)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
As my favourite elven ruler, I would have to choose the first son of the first prince of the Ñoldor. Maedhros.:) But Maedhros wasn't a king.

[Falagar]

A tie between Fingolfin and Fëanor.
Then Turgon, Finrod and Maedhros (although he never was a king)...

[Legolaslvr!]

Fingolfin i guess!

[Melkor's significant othe]

Another vote for Fingolfin here! Come on......hand to hand challenge to Morgoth! No way you can beat that !

[BeardofPants]

...For sheer insanity.

Mine's probably finrod, or perhaps feanor.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
...For sheer insanity.

Mine's probably finrod, or perhaps feanor. Very strange BoP. From one extream to the other.:D

[Earniel]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
...For sheer insanity.

Mine's probably finrod, or perhaps feanor.

I could have sworn it said 'for sheep insanity'.... :eek:

[Khamûl]

Fingolfin. The duel with Melkor is one of my favorite passages from the Sil. And you have to admire his calmness when Feanor confronted him.

[Maedhros]

But Maedhros wasn't a king.
If you go that way then, Fëanor wasn't a king either. The only king of the Ñoldor were: Finwë, Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon and Gil-Galad.
It's funny because I would wager that the "Kingdom" of Maedhros in Beleriand was more powerful than that of say Thranduil in Mirkwood.
How do you define a king then?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
If you go that way then, Fëanor wasn't a king either. The only king of the Ñoldor were: Finwë, Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon and Gil-Galad.
It's funny because I would wager that the "Kingdom" of Maedhros in Beleriand was more powerful than that of say Thranduil in Mirkwood.
How do you define a king then? No, the only "High Kings" in Middle-earth were: Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon, and Gilgalad. In Aman Finwe was king of the Noldor. When he was murdered, Feanor being the eldest son would have been king. This all took place during the revolt and exile of the Noldor. When the Noldor that crossed the ice, which were the bigger following especially after the Kinslaying, came to Middle-earth, Maedhros turned the High Kingship over to Fingolfin. Finrod was in the line of the High Kings, but did not live long enough for that to happen, but, he did create a stronghold by the advice of Ulmo and therefore, he was a king. Because Maedhroes relinquished his rights to the throne, there was no way he was to ever be High King of the Noldor.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Very strange BoP. From one extream to the other.:D

Who me? :p

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Who me? :p Never!:rolleyes:

[Maedhros]

Unfortunately for Fëanor, he never became a High King of the Ñoldor. It was in Hithlum when Maedhros waived his right for the Kingship that Fingolfin became the High King. Fëanor never actually became the High King of the Ñoldor. Finwë, held the title of Ñoldoran, King of the Ñoldor.
Finrod was in the line of the High Kings, but did not live long enough for that to happen, but, he did create a stronghold by the advice of Ulmo and therefore, he was a king.
The line of the High Kings were those of the House of Fingolfin. Then it passed to Gil-Galad, which is from the House of Finarfin. Was he a High King because he created a stronghold by the advice of Ulmo? Did they call Fingon a High King when Fingolfin lived? No.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The line of the High Kings were those of the House of Fingolfin. Then it passed to Gil-Galad, which is from the House of Finarfin. Was he a High King because he created a stronghold by the advice of Ulmo? Did they call Fingon a High King when Fingolfin lived? No.I didn't say that he was a High King because he created a stronghold. I said he was a king, not High King. No, they didn't call Fingon High King while Fingolfin lived.

I am saying that because Maedhros turned the High Kingship over to Fingolfin, then he was exempt. Once the line of Fingolfin was over, the High Kingship went to the house of Finarfin. Had Finrod out lived Turgon, the High Kingship would have come to him. It was only the order of events that prevented it.

[Falagar]

Unfortunately for Fëanor, he never became a High King of the Ñoldor. It was in Hithlum when Maedhros waived his right for the Kingship that Fingolfin became the High King. Fëanor never actually became the High King of the Ñoldor. Finwë, held the title of Ñoldoran, King of the Ñoldor.
I think he was a High-king of the Ñoldor. He wasn't elected, nor did most of the people follow him, but once his father died he automatically became King of the House of Finwë. Fingolfin claimed this right, but technically Fëanor was High-King, because he never gave his Kingship to Fingolfin, and Fingolfin was never elected instead of Fëanor (even though most of the Ñoldor followed Fingolfin).

And even if Fëanor's son gave away the Kingship, Fëanor had it when he was alive.

(I have little knowledge on how a monarchy works, it may very well prove that I'm wrong)

[Maedhros]

And even if Fëanor's son gave away the Kingship, Fëanor had it when he was alive.
Heru Maitimo, waived his right to the Kingship of the Ñoldor not the kingship himself.

[Jonathan]

Fingolfin is my favourite of the elf kings. One of the best parts in the Silmarillion was when Fingolfin challenged Morgoth in single combat.

[Lalaith]

Was Gil-Galad an elven king? I'd say so. If yes, then he is definitely my favourite elven king. He must have been a very gorgeous character.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Was Gil-Galad an elven king? I'd say so. If yes, then he is definitely my favourite elven king. He must have been a very gorgeous character. Gil-galad was the last High King of the Noldor.

[Lalaith]

Gil-galad was the last High King of the Noldor.

Okay, then I'd say that Gil-Galad is my favourite elven king.

[Arien the Maia]

My favorite Elven King would have to be Fingolfin...after all he did fight Morgoth face to face:)

[Thrainduil]

Turgon, Son of Fingolfin, Lord and High King of Gondolin is my favorite character/ king. If it wasn't for backstabbing jealousy, he would have ruled the Great Hidden city till the End of Days.

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

Now I don't know who is my favourite Elven King is.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by L@ur@y Elven Warrior
Now I don't know who is my favourite Elven King is. Then why post? :mad:

[Tour]

Hey, its either Cirdan, Glorfindel, or Turgon, their all cool

[Tour]

Glorfindel is cool, though actually glorfindel was only the captain of the Golden Flower

[Sister Golden Hair]

Neither Glorfindel nor Cirdan were kings.

[Lalaith]

Neither Glorfindel nor Cirdan were kings.

What was the title of Cirdan then?

[Earniel]

Shipwright, I suppose.

[Falagar]

(Also a litteral translation of his name)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Cirdan was Lord of the Falas. He did rule over a population of Sindar, but his title was never king.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Falagar
(Also a litteral translation of his name)

Is it? I never guessed.

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by SGH
Then why post? :mad: lol

I already posted but I want to chnge. I wrote "fingolfin", but now I realize that Finrod Felagund is nicer. And his death is more dramatic and terible.

[Maedhros]

I already posted but I want to chnge. I wrote "fingolfin", but now I realize that Finrod Felagund is nicer. And his death is more dramatic and terible.
The death of Finrod could never be more dramatic and terrible than that of Finrod. Finrod died by the hands of Sauron, while Fingofin died at the hands of he, who arises in Might, Morgoth Bauglir.
Then why post?
Careful SGH, you don't want to turn into a certain mod who likes to close threads..:(

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Elu Thingol is so cool! He's definitely my favorite! :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
The death of Finrod could never be more dramatic and terrible than that of Finrod. Finrod died by the hands of Sauron, while Fingofin died at the hands of he, who arises in Might, Morgoth Bauglir.

Careful SGH, you don't want to turn into a certain mod who likes to close threads..:( I close threads when I think I have a good reason. I don't like when people post just for the sake of posting and raising their count. I have seen about five to ten posts like that one in the last week. The thread asks who your favorite Elven king is. If you don't know, then what's the point of posting "I don't know." Post when you do know, not when you don't.

And Maedhros, I think you meant to say Fingolfin above instead of Finrod.

[Andúril]

SGH:
And Maedhros, I think you meant to say Fingolfin above instead of Finrod.Let's see:The death of Fingolfin could never be more dramatic and terrible than that of Fingolfin. Fingolfin died by the hands of Sauron, while Fingofin died at the hands of he, who arises in Might, Morgoth Bauglir.:p

[Andúril]

Great. Now not only can't I send certain PMs, but I can't edit some of my posts. :mad:

[Maedhros]

Ooooooooopsssssssss.

[Dúnedain]

I am almost done with the Sil, and I am just before the story of Beren and Luthien, but thus far I'd have to say my favorite elf is Fingolfin. I was so intrigued by his battle with Morgoth and his calling him out to fight. That whole chapter was awesome. To me he seemed the mightiest of elves and was yet so noble and wise, however full of rage and fury with the evil of the world.

[The Lady of the Wood]

finrod felagund is definitely my favorite :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by The Lady of the Wood
finrod felagund is definitely my favorite :) What a great choice.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
What a great choice.

lol you are obsessed! :D

[Rían]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I am almost done with the Sil, and I am just before the story of Beren and Luthien, but thus far I'd have to say my favorite elf is Fingolfin. I was so intrigued by his battle with Morgoth and his calling him out to fight. That whole chapter was awesome. To me he seemed the mightiest of elves and was yet so noble and wise, however full of rage and fury with the evil of the world.

(hey, Dúnedain, I just saw your post like this over in the "Does Sil get more entertaining" thread, and I posted this excerpt - I'll re-post what I posted over there, because it really goes better over here).

I really like the story of Fingolfin fighting Morgoth - I agree - he ROCKED! If you ever get to the HoME books, in The Lays of Beleriand, HoME 3, Tolkien put it into verse. Here's just an excerpt - Fingolfin's defiance before Morgoth's gates:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In that vast shadow once of yore
Fingolfin stood: his shield he bore
with field of heaven's blue and star
of crystal shining pale afar.
In overmastering wrath and hate
desperate he smote upon that gate,
the Gnomish king, there standing lone
while endless fortresses of stone
engulfed the thin clear ringing keen
of silver horn on baldric green.
His hopeless challenge dauntless cried
Fingolfin there: 'Come, open wide,
dark king, your ghastly brazen doors!
Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors!
Come forth, O monstrous craven lord,
and fight with thine own hand and sword,
thou wielder of hosts of banded thralls,
thou tyrant leaguered with strong walls,
thou foe of Gods and elvish race!
I wait thee here. Come! Show thy face!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now don't you just want to run out and get HoME 3?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
lol you are obsessed! :D LOL! You're not the first to accuse me of that.:D

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
(hey, Dúnedain, I just saw your post like this over in the "Does Sil get more entertaining" thread, and I posted this excerpt - I'll re-post what I posted over there, because it really goes better over here).

I really like the story of Fingolfin fighting Morgoth - I agree - he ROCKED! If you ever get to the HoME books, in The Lays of Beleriand, HoME 3, Tolkien put it into verse. Here's just an excerpt - Fingolfin's defiance before Morgoth's gates:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In that vast shadow once of yore
Fingolfin stood: his shield he bore
with field of heaven's blue and star
of crystal shining pale afar.
In overmastering wrath and hate
desperate he smote upon that gate,
the Gnomish king, there standing lone
while endless fortresses of stone
engulfed the thin clear ringing keen
of silver horn on baldric green.
His hopeless challenge dauntless cried
Fingolfin there: 'Come, open wide,
dark king, your ghastly brazen doors!
Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors!
Come forth, O monstrous craven lord,
and fight with thine own hand and sword,
thou wielder of hosts of banded thralls,
thou tyrant leaguered with strong walls,
thou foe of Gods and elvish race!
I wait thee here. Come! Show thy face!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now don't you just want to run out and get HoME 3?

I do, just for this story, lol, thanks! :D



Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
LOL! You're not the first to accuse me of that.:D

LOL, and probably won't be the last ;)

[Lalaith]

Are there no fans of Turgon or Orodreth (not that I am, I'm just asking).

By the way: Was Gil-Galad the last high king of the Noldor since he had no children?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Are there no fans of Turgon or Orodreth (not that I am, I'm just asking).

By the way: Was Gil-Galad the last high king of the Noldor since he had no children? I liked Turgon until he decided not to listen to Ulmo. Orodreth was an idiot.

Yes, Gil-galad was the last High King.

[Falagar]

*rememberes the last stand of the White Tower*

I liked him anyway :p

[Lalaith]

I liked Turgon until he decided not to listen to Ulmo.
Okay, remembering this part and have to say that you are right. It might not belong to this thread, but I have to say that Tuor was an idiot too, in that case. He just forgot about what Ulmo said to him and lived in Gondolin.

[Earniel]

Oh, I don't think Tuor just forgot what Ulmo said. But he was just a messenger. And the trouble was that Turgon didn't want to hear about leaving Gondolin behind. And you don't go arguing overmuch with the king of a city in which you just arrived. :D Especially not if you plan on wedding his daughter.

Despite his stubborness I still like Turgon. He was also a bit of a tragic character. He lost his wife on reaching the Eastern shores. And when he had finally made a city that could rival the beauty of TÃ*rion that he left behind, he was told to leave it again for an uncertain future in a rapidly darkening world. If I had been in his position, I doubt I would have listened to Ulmo's word either.

[Lalaith]

A good thing about Turgon was that he wouldn't leave the city behind but die with it in the end.

[Maedhros]

A good thing about Turgon was that he wouldn't leave the city behind but die with it in the end.
Well, after he doomed the majority of his kingdom to death, it was the least he could do.
Sadly, in the end Turgon reverted into a Thingol, and as we already know, Thingol is the worst excuse for an elven king ever.

[Wayfarer]

I prefer Thingol to Feanor any day.

[Lalaith]

But Thingol was still very strange and arrogant, though better than Feanor.

[Maedhros]

I take Fëanor over Thingol any day. Thingol is a wuss.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I'll pass on both.:p

[Maedhros]

From the Published Silmarillion: Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor
For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him. The works of wonder for the glory of Arda that he might otherwise have wrought only Manwë might in some measure conceive.
I think I will stay with Fëanor.

[Falagar]

I think I'll stay with Fëanor too ;)

[celeb-galad]

Finrod Felagund all the way.

Boo Fëanor.:rolleyes:

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I take Fëanor over Thingol any day.

I would to!:D

[Angahirion]

My vote DEFINATLY goes to Fingolfin! Not the least because he kicked Morgoth his arse! But mostly because he is one of the wisest people ever to have walked upon Middle-earth!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Angahirion
My vote DEFINATLY goes to Fingolfin! Not the least because he kicked Morgoth his arse! But mostly because he is one of the wisest people ever to have walked upon Middle-earth! Finrod was the wisest of the Exiled Noldor.

[Maedhros]

Finrod was the wisest of the Exiled Noldor.
You are just jealous because JRRT made Fëanor prettier than Finrod.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
You are just jealous because JRRT made Fëanor prettier than Finrod. Nope. We've been through this before, and Finrod is prettier, inside, and out.:p

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Nope. We've been through this before, and Finrod is prettier, inside, and out.:p

No way! Feanor is an awesome elf...he embodies everything that an elf could be!:D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
No way! Feanor is an awesome elf...he embodies everything that an elf could be!:D Maybe everything an evil Elf can be.:D Funny you should say that, because lastnight in a chat between Maedhros and me, he said Finrod was an Elf, and Feanor was but didn't act like one. Well, he's right about that at least.:p

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Maybe everything an evil Elf can be.:D Funny you should say that, because lastnight in a chat between Maedhros and me, he said Finrod was an Elf, and Feanor was but didn't act like one. Well, he's right about that at least.:p

Elves can behave badly! Look at Eol and Maeglin. When I say that Feanor embodies everything an elf can be I mean that he was extremely gifted/skilled and who knows what he could have done if Morgoth didn't interfere.... :D Don't get me wrong...I think Finrod is a great elf...a good elf....but Feanor is way more interesting!:D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Nah!:p

[olsonm]

Finarfin was the best. :cool:

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Nah!:p

I'll never be able to convince you will I? :D

[BeardofPants]

Bah, we all know that Finrod was a pansy, and that Feanor was ruggedly good looking. :p Finarfin? You mean the one that cowardly stayed behind? :p

[olsonm]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Finarfin? You mean the one that cowardly stayed behind? :p That was wisdom, baby! :cool:

[Falagar]

What makes Finrod an interesting character? He did all the 'right' things, not once did he do something stupid (Following Fëanor may not have been the best thing to do though, and leaving his people may also have been a bad idea (but he had an oath to keep)) or not-very-nice.

Sure, he did some brave things, but IMO they didn't develope his character enough.
I could be going on like this forever ;)

Edit:
(****ed post, I wrote in a hurry)

Of course, you have the right to like whichever character you will (as if you didn't already know that :rolleyes: ;)), if everyone had liked Fëanor, what should we discuss then?

[snowmane]

fingolfin-cuz feanor took a total psycho against the valar when his pretty simarills were stole by morgoth and half of the teleri were slain cuz of that!!
it dont matta how pretty he is!

also melian made thingol like that-it says so in da bk

and not many ppl liked dwarves-celeborn dint either!

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Bah, we all know that Finrod was a pansy, and that Feanor was ruggedly good looking. :p Finarfin? You mean the one that cowardly stayed behind? :p

LOL! you are so right!:D

[snowmane]

no fingolfins a different 1

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Bah, we all know that Finrod was a pansy, and that Feanor was ruggedly good looking. :p Finarfin? You mean the one that cowardly stayed behind? :p Bop bop bop bop!:mad: :p

[Lalaith]

I'm afraid I have to say it again: Gil-Galad was the best (maybe except Finrod who had also courage).

[Lord Manafirogh]

My favourite elf kings is Fingolfin. He had the guts to go the Morgoth and challange him in one on one combat and put up a good fight. Also he was a good leader.
Allthough i i do like Finrod and Feanor.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
My favourite elf kings is Fingolfin. He had the guts to go the Morgoth and challange him in one on one combat and put up a good fight. Also he was a good leader.

You have chosen wisely :D

[Ulmo]

Thingol - so [deservedly] arrogant...
In Beleriand King Thingol upon his throne was as the lords of the Maiar, whose power is at rest, whose joy is as an air that they breathe in all their days, whose thought flows in a tide untroubled from the heights to the deeps.
But Beren being filled with dread, for the splendour of Menegroth and the majesty of Thingol were very great, answered nothing.
His people gathered about him in joy, and they were amazed; for fair and noble as he had been, now he appeared as it were a lord of the Maiar, his hair as grey silver, tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar;

[Melkor's significant othe]

I've said it before - but repetition seems to be prevalent on this post - so once again it's FINGOLFIN who was tops. Proudest and most Valiant of the Kings. If there was ever a film of the Sil then the episode were Fingolfin jumps on Rochallor (sp?) and thunders accross anfauglith would be phenomenal! His eyes burning with the light of the Valar as all fled in amaze thinking him Orome......incredible!

[celeb-galad]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
No way! Feanor is an awesome elf...he embodies everything that an elf could be!:D

You mean that Elves are supposed to be arrogant, stubborn and somewhat stupid? Awwww....you just ruined everything for me!

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by celeb-galad
You mean that Elves are supposed to be arrogant, stubborn and somewhat stupid? Awwww....you just ruined everything for me!

I mean that Feanor was the greatest of the noldor....he possesed more skill and talent than any of them...he could have done really great things but Melkor came into the picture and ruined everything

[Ulmo]

Potential doesn't mean much if it's not utilized in its fullest capacity - makes one looks quite foolish in the worse cases of such. (Re: Feanor)

What good is all the talent and skill in the world to one if said person's stupidity causes the world to fall?

[Falagar]

Well, cause the world to fall is a very strong thing to say.
But look at it from his point of view (and have in mind that he had a great temper):
His father, whom he had loved above all else in the world was killed, the Silmarilli, who were on 2nd place after his father was stolen, his mother was dead, and the enemy who had killed his father and stolen the Silmarilli had fled to a land far away...

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Melkor's significant othe
I've said it before - but repetition seems to be prevalent on this post - so once again it's FINGOLFIN who was tops. Proudest and most Valiant of the Kings. If there was ever a film of the Sil then the episode were Fingolfin jumps on Rochallor (sp?) and thunders accross anfauglith would be phenomenal! His eyes burning with the light of the Valar as all fled in amaze thinking him Orome......incredible!

Agreed! Finwë Ñolofinwë kicks major bootay! (that's Fingolfin if you couldn't figure it out) :D

[Maedhros]

What good is all the talent and skill in the world to one if said person's stupidity causes the world to fall?
In the Case of Fëanor, it is WRONG to say that his actions caused the world to fall, on the contrary, it was the best thing that could have happened to Arda.
From Morgoth's Ring: Myths Transformed
If we consider the situation after the escape of Morgoth and the reestablishment of his abode in Middle-earth, we shall see that the heroic Noldor were the best possible weapon with which to keep Morgoth at bay, virtually besieged, and at any rate fully occupied, on the northern fringe of Middle-earth, without provoking him to a frenzy of nihilistic destruction. And in the meanwhile, Men, or the best elements in Mankind, shaking off his shadow, came into contact with a people who had actually seen and experienced the Blessed Realm.
The last intervention with physical force by the Valar, ending in the breaking of Thangorodrim, may then be viewed as not in fact reluctant or even unduly delayed, but timed with precision. The intervention came before the annihilation of the Eldar and the Edain. Morgoth though locally triumphant had neglected most of Middle-earth during the war; and by it he had in fact been weakened: in power and prestige (he had lost and failed to recover one of the Silmarils), and above all in mind. He had become absorbed in 'kingship', and though a tyrant of ogre-size and monstrous power, this was a vast fall even from his former wickedness of hate, and his terrible nihilism. He had fallen to like being a tyrant-king with conquered slaves, and vast obedient armies.
And why were the Ñoldor in ME in the first place?

[Hornblower]

Thingol

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Hornblower
Thingol OMG, don't get on the bad side of the moderator. :mad: :p :D

Welcome to Entmoot.:)

[Lalaith]

Is it possible that the two of us have once the same opinion, Sister Golden Hair? We both don't like Thingol.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Is it possible that the two of us have once the same opinion, Sister Golden Hair? We both don't like Thingol. You are 100% right. We finally agree.:D

[Willow Oran]

Thingol isn't too bad, he just takes the overprotective daddy thing a little too far. He's not my favorite elf king, but I'd take him over Feanor any day. After all, there must have been something good in him for a Maia to fall in love with him, right?

[Sister Golden Hair]

After all, there must have been something good in him for a Maia to fall in love with him, right? Even the Maiar were not perfect.:p

[Lollypopgurl]

Turgon! Gondolin rules. :p

[Willow Oran]

Even the Maiar were not perfect.

What about Luthien? Surely she can't haven't taken after her mother completely? Thingol wasn't the best King but he certainly wasn't the worst. Although, I wish he would've kept the name Elwe. Maybe that's what happened, he was a good character when he was named Elwe and then he took on the really strange sounding name of Thingol and his character turned into that over stubborn, miser we all hate so much.

As for Turgon.... I love his city but I don't really like him. He could of save a whole lot of lives, including his own if he had heeded Ulmo's advice. Instead he ignored it and bad things happened.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Luthien wasn't a maia, she was half Maia and half Elven.

If Thingol wasn't the worst Elven king ever, who was?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.'

Willow: I know what you mean. I love the name Elwe!

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Has to be Feanor for reasons stated above.

[Maedhros]

Fëanor is pure greatness to me.;)

[Falagar]

My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.'

Can't see how that can be bad leader-ship ;)

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Fëanor is pure greatness to me.;)

He is the best!:D

[Falagar]

No one greater, no one as great!

[Willow Oran]

Luthien wasn't a maia, she was half Maia and half Elven.

I know she wasn't a maia, but she was a really awesome character. I was trying to point out that some of that must have been inherited from Elwe.

As for the one worse than Elwe... It'd definetly have to be Feanor, I've never liked him much and there isn't really anything about him to like.

However, I don't actually like Thingol all that much either, (even if I have been defending him.) Finrod was a much better king than he or any of the others ever were (Except possibly Gil-Galad, but if you believe the sources that have him as Finrod's grandnephew that makes sense.)

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I'd like to change, my vote if I may to Finwe, who has barely been mentioned.

He bravely stood up against Morgoth and the great darkness that came, and he agreed to stay in Mandos forever, so that Miriel could re-gain her life, but she just sodded off to Vaire's house anway.

He also loved Feanor, my first choice, a lot and had blue-grey eyes, which sounds pretty cool.

[Lalaith]

Gil-Galad was pretty impressive.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.'


For these reasons, Feanor gets my vote as the worst king .
Thingol was a bad father, and a racist. He didn't like Beren because he was a Man. Although, if I was a Elf and a father, I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a Man either. I would hope she would find a nice Elf to marry. And make cute Elf grandbabies. Bit of a difference between being a bad father and a bad king.
Finrod Felegund was the best king.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

'EVERYONE' is a racist in Middle-earth. Have you ever heard anyone saying 'The poor Orcs, they're just misunderstood'?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

And if I remember correctly, Elrond didn't want Arwen to marry a man unless he was king of both Gondor and Arnor.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
'EVERYONE' is a racist in Middle-earth. Have you ever heard anyone saying 'The poor Orcs, they're just misunderstood'?

Please.


And if I remember correctly, Elrond didn't want Arwen to marry a man unless he was king of both Gondor and Arnor.

Yes, but Elrond Halfelven watched Aragorn grow up and I think he was more or less pushing Aragorn into becoming who he was destined to be, not just bumming around the countryside with the Rangers, countryless, homeless. I think Elrond cared for Aragorn like a father (or at least a close uncle). Besides, who would entrust their only daughter to a roaming, homeless Ranger? I know I wouldn't. I would want more for her, no matter who she married. At least he didn't laugh in Aragorn's face and tell him to go fetch a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown! Sheessh!

[snowmane]

the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!)

:) :) :) :)
bot daddies gave away their most prosed possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!):) :eek:

[snowmane]

the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!)

:) :) :) :)
both daddies gave away their most prized possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!):) :eek:

[snowmane]

i am in agreement-feanor sucks-he was such a bad leader!does anyone think that gil-galad was pretty good?he helped get rid of sauron, and made good alliances with men...maybe he didnt fight against morgoth, but he was pretty darn good!

feanor is a loser!!;)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by snowmane
the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!)

:) :) :) :)
bot daddies gave away their most prosed possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!):) :eek:

Elrond didn't want to see Aragorn waste his life. It was quite possible for Aragorn to take his place and fullfil his destiny. It was a push for Aragorn. Elrond loved Aragorn, he helped to raise him in his home. This is even though he was not totally happy with his daughter (an Elf) marrying a mortal (a Man). Elrond himself was a product of a mixed marriage (Elf/Man), hence his name "Elrond Halfelven".

However, Thingol had nothing but disdain for Beren and scorned him. He gave him an impossible task because it was better than telling him "No, there's no way your going to marry my daughter." When Beren lost his hand and helped hunt down the wolf with Thingol, he gained Thingol's respect and shamed Thingol for asking such an impossible task.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by snowmane
i am in agreement-feanor sucks-he was such a bad leader!does anyone think that gil-galad was pretty good?he helped get rid of sauron, and made good alliances with men...maybe he didnt fight against morgoth, but he was pretty darn good!

feanor is a loser!!;)

Although I am not fond of Feanor, you have to have someone to build a great story on... and that was him. If he had not been so hot headed and selfish the story wouldn't have been so good. He serves a purpose.

Gil-galad was a great leader, you bet! Unfortunately the Silvan Elves that came to fight Sauron were so independent that they wouldn't be ruled by Gil-galad. So, yeah, he was a great ruler... but not so great that he could convince the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood to follow his lead. Too bad for them. I think it was only about 1/3 of those that went into battle that actually returned to Mirkwood after the battle the others died in battle. Mirkwood suffered great casualties, but it was their own fault.

[Melko Belcha]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Elrond didn't want to see Aragorn waste his life. It was quite possible for Aragorn to take his place and fullfil his destiny. It was a push for Aragorn. Elrond loved Aragorn, he helped to raise him in his home. This is even though he was not totally happy with his daughter (an Elf) marrying a mortal (a Man). Elrond himself was a product of a mixed marriage (Elf/Man), hence his name "Elrond Halfelven".

However, Thingol had nothing but disdain for Beren and scorned him. He gave him an impossible task because it was better than telling him "No, there's no way your going to marry my daughter." When Beren lost his hand and helped hunt down the wolf with Thingol, he gained Thingol's respect and shamed Thingol for asking such an impossible task.

I fully agree with your statement on Elrond and Aragorn. I have always felt Elrond held high respect for Aragorn, even though losing his daughter was sad, I believe he was really happy inside.

I like Turgon best. He made a mistake for not fleeing the city, but he loved and respected his people. Most Elves in the city probably would not be willing to leave, and Turgon did not want to force them. He found the valley and brought his people there to keep them safe from the evil outside, to let them live in peace. I have always seen Turgon as the type of king that would know the name of every person in the city, or sit down in the middle of the road and play a game with a group of kids. Someone who truely knew his peoples hearts, and minds.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
I like Turgon best. He made a mistake for not fleeing the city, but he loved and respected his people. Most Elves in the city probably would not be willing to leave, and Turgon did not want to force them. He found the valley and brought his people there to keep them safe from the evil outside, to let them live in peace. I have always seen Turgon as the type of king that would know the name of every person in the city, or sit down in the middle of the road and play a game with a group of kids. Someone who truely knew his peoples hearts, and minds.

Yes, maybe if Idril Celebrindal had loved Maeglin and not Tuor perhaps he wouldn't have been caught so far from the city by Orcs and tortured. Maeglin should have died rather than given up Gondolin to Melkor *grrrrr*:mad: (atypical Elf who became evil). But Tuor and Celebrindal got many of the people out through the secret way. And Maeglin got what he deserved. :)

[snowmane]

i agree-turgon was cool!:)

do u also notice that he didnt stick his nose up at tuor??
gooooo turgon!
also good leader....he was protecting his whole people by keeping gondolin secret....then maeglin goes and wrecks it all cause he fancies his cousin??shame,shame!:(
kinda freaky that his dad and him fell da same place...but of course his dad sed he was gonna do that!

well, anyway.....agreeing with turgon!!:D

[Radagast The Brown]

Could be, but Turgon forgot (ignored?) what Ulmo said - that the secret of Gondlin won't will be discovered, and that Turgon have to be prepared.

[Ragnarok]

Fingolfin

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Could be, but Turgon forgot (ignored?) what Ulmo said - that the secret of Gondlin won't will be discovered, and that Turgon have to be prepared

He knew allright. The stupid idiot was more concerned about his jewels. Plus he hated the Feanorians. :mad: :mad: If he wasn't 8 odd foot tall I'd punch him...ah well, I could always kick him in the er...crown jewels...:D

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yeesh, that's tall! :eek: Are you sure you can kick that high? ;)

BTW, where'd you get the number?

[Inderjit Sanghera]

BTW, where'd you get the number?

Elendil 7"11, Tuor even taller, Turgon EVEN TALLER, Argon EVEN TALLER and then we come to Elwe...:eek:

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Elendil was 7'11"? :eek:

Tuor taller than Elendil? I always had the impression that the Numenoreans/Dunedain were taller than other Men.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

The Edain and Noldor were said to average 7 feet. The Numenoreans, in the days of their 'declining' 6 foot 4.

[Melkor's significant othe]

Ind S: Who's Argon ? Aragorn wouldn't have been that tall. I always pictured the Numenoreans as being taller than any eldar. Maybe the Noldor were v.tall (Fingolfin I bet was a v.tall) but I'm open to suggestions and/or facts.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Argon was a Noldorin prince, who did not survive the crossing of the Helcaraxe, I think.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Argon was the youngest son of Fingolfin. His Quenyarin name was Arakano, he was named after his father and it can be interpretated as 'Commander'. (The sons of Fingfolfin sure liked hte 'Kano'- prefix). He was slain in a battle in Lammoth, after striking down a Orc chieftain. His character was a rather late developement and first came into existence in the 'Shibboleth of Feanor, HoME 12.

Him not surviving the crossing of the Helkaraxe was a ephermal idea.

[Melkor's significant othe]

Thankyou. You learn something new everyday!

[Artanis]

I vote for Turgon.

[Linaewen]

So do I. Both Finrod Felagund & Turgon

[Linaewen]

So do I. Both Finrod Fingolfin & Turgon

Sorry about that. Got a bit confused with all the names beginning with F. I meant Finrod Felagund and Turgon

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Sorry about that. Got a bit confused with all the names beginning with F. I meant Finrod Felagund and Turgon

You are forgiven. ;)

[gandalfstormcrow]

Favorite Elf-King is Thingol.

[Anglorfin]

As Turgon is my favorite Elf he is by default my favorite Elven King. The whole concept of Gondolin was cool and even though in the end he seemed to forget about the warnings of Ulmo he still held his people together the longest in the meantime. Also from Gondolin many beautiful and lasting things came. Numenorean kings can be traced back to the house of Turgon, as can Elrond and his offspring. Glamdring (my favorite sword) was made for Turgon. He basically commanded his city very well until the end. Maeglin gave the location away and finally Turgon's Noldorian pride caught up with him and he didn't want to leave, but who could blame him for that.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by gandalfstormcrow
Favorite Elf-King is Thingol.
:eek: Oh, good heavens!!! What are you thinking?!:eek:

Anglorfin: I agree Turgon was a great king. The whole concept of a hidden city was a great defense. Well, until it wasn't hidden anymore. Maeglin *spits on ground* was a rat!!

[Maedhros]

Oh, good heavens!!! What are you thinking?!
Sheeeeesh. Not even I have that low opinion of Thingol. I wonder why the supporters of FF, had that attitude towards Thingol.
Could it be perhaps because they feel that Thingol murdered FF in a way.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Sheeeeesh. Not even I have that low opinion of Thingol. I wonder why the supporters of FF, had that attitude towards Thingol.
Could it be perhaps because they feel that Thingol murdered FF in a way. That's exactly why.

[BelegS]

Finrod. I have no Attitude towards Thingol, so it would be better not to Generalize the word "supporter."

[Linaewen]

Anglorfin: I agree Turgon was a great king. The whole concept of a hidden city was a great defense. Well, until it wasn't hidden anymore. Maeglin *spits on ground* was a rat!!
*spits on ground also*

Finrod. I have no Attitude towards Thingol, so it would be better not to Generalize the word "supporter."
Why? Also, welcome BelegS- the name of one of my fave characters! w00t!(Sorry Ruinel)

[Maedhros]

I have no Attitude towards Thingol, so it would be better not to Generalize the word "supporter."
Yes, there is definitely a difference between a supporter and a true fan of FF. My mistake.

[Aragorn_of_the_west]

Definantly Fingolfin- courageuos, brave, strong and when enraged- very deadly.

[Attalus]

Gil-ga.... Ow! Finrod Felagund. ;)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Attalus
Gil-ga.... Ow! Finrod Felagund. ;)

=.0 That's more like it! :D

Maedhros: did I or did I not say that Turgon was a good king also? Sheesh! Just because I think that Thingol was a rotten king has nothing to do with Finrod (mostly). He was just a bad king, and a jerk as a father. And that outweighs anything he did to any one person. Sheesh! You're so quick to jump to conclusions.

[Maedhros]

Sheesh! You're so quick to jump to conclusions.
I have no idea what you are talking about.:confused:

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I have no idea what you are talking about.:confused:
Silly little pup... you said... Sheeeeesh. Not even I have that low opinion of Thingol. I wonder why the supporters of FF, had that attitude towards Thingol.
So, I get the impression you are being judgmental toward myself and SGH. When in fact, I have my own reasons for not liking Thingol that are completely separate from Finrod. Ok? :)

[Maedhros]

So, I get the impression you are being judgmental toward myself and SGH. When in fact, I have my own reasons for not liking Thingol that are completely separate from Finrod. Ok?
Could be, but I think that the fact that Thingol knew that Beren had the Ring of Barahir, and that it would have been very probable that Beren would ask FF for help in his impossible quest, and endind up with FF's death is not a factor that I think would sit well with FF's fans.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
...probable that Beren would ask FF for help in his impossible quest, and endind up with FF's death is not a factor that I think would sit well with FF's fans.
It doesn't sit well. But I am quite capable of stepping back and assessing Thingol outside of this. Thingol is a twerp.

[Wayfarer]

He was at times, anyway.

But Thingol /did/ eventually come to accept the love his daughter had for beren. And after meeting Beren, his opinion of men was changed enough that he was willing to raise Turin as his own son
. He wasn't completely bad- Melian saw something in him that was enough to win her love. And that's no easy task.

Not that I would know. ]:-)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
He was at times, anyway.
"At times"????? Woooo, you are stretching it. Really, you are.

Originally posted by Wayfarer
But Thingol /did/ eventually come to accept the love his daughter had for beren. And after meeting Beren, his opinion of men was changed enough that he was willing to raise Turin as his own son. [/b]
True, but Beren had to lose a hand for the first thing to happen and die for the second thing to happen. (Although, Luthien was able to petition for his return.)

Originally posted by Wayfarer
He wasn't completely bad- Melian saw something in him that was enough to win her love. And that's no easy task. He probably had a cute nacca. ;)

However, I just felt sorry for her, the whole time... just pitty.

[Wayfarer]

Hacca. with an 'h'.

as in 'Lissë eldahacca, nÃ*s, vanya telqui. Ruinel ruscowen.'

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Hacca. with an 'h'.
Oh, how funny. On my cheat sheet, I've scribbled so much that my 'h' and 'n' look alike. I must learn to take my time and write legibly. What is even more funny is 'nac-' is the root for 'bite'! I'll let your imagination roam for a while on that one. ;)
originally posted by Wayfarer (a.k.a.: Danger Boy)
as in 'Lissë eldahacca, nÃ*s, vanya telqui. Ruinel ruscowen.'
Vantal úvarna tië. Inyë útulca Atani nÃ*s. Hanyal úcaurë hon va nÃ*s? Hanyan saiwa órë, saiwa va Anar! Ã�va ustal haccalla!!
;)

[Wayfarer]

Vantal úvarna tië. Inyë útulca Atani nÃ*s. Hanyal úcaurë hon va nÃ*s? Hanyan saiwa órë, saiwa va Anar! Ã�va ustal haccalla!!

Walk-you unsafe path. Even I not-steadfast human woman. Understand-you hot heart, hot (I will not/possessive) the Sun!
I won't not-feet!!


Yeah... I'm sure. :P

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Walk-you unsafe path. Even I not-steadfast human woman. Understand-you hot heart, hot (I will not/possessive) the Sun!
I won't not-feet!!


Yeah... I'm sure. :P
Criminey!!!! (note to self: must get better at Quenya to get Wayfarer back... but good) lol! :D

It's supposed to say: "You walk (an) unsafe path. Even I (am) not (a) weak Atani maiden. Possess you no fear from me as woman? I possess hot spirit, hot as the sun! Do not burn you your ass!"

:rolleyes: Just realized that I needed to use '-on' ending not 'possess'. (#$!%%^@#^^@%$%^@^!$#$^$^$^@$!#$)
*bangs head on wall, 7 times* #$$#^%!$!#$%$%@%@%!!!!!

crap

[Wayfarer]

Nyah, ]:-)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Nyah, ]:-) o.O Ack!!! *frustration* Ack!!!

[Wayfarer]

I'm just that good, people.

[Strongbow]

Turgon is IMHO the most awsome. I found his parts and all parts about Gondolin to be very very interesting.

Second place is Thingol. Although he almost gets 1st place for having sex with a beautiful Maiar!

I think i like them because they had "hidden" cities that could not be asily reached.

[Finrod Felagund]

As did Finrod! :D

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Strongbow
Turgon is IMHO the most awsome. I found his parts and all parts about Gondolin to be very very interesting.
Did you ever read the description of entering Gondolin? It's in UT. I think you'll like it. :)

[Thingol's new Wife]

Thingol is my choice. He kept his people safe for a long time, with the help of his wife, but that is the way it is with most strong marriages.:)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Thingol's new Wife
Thingol is my choice. He kept his people safe for a long time, with the help of his wife, but that is the way it is with most strong marriages.:) If you say so. He was also a jerk to Men in the beginning, as well as to the Noldor when they arrived in Beleriand.:p

[Maedhros]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
If you say so. He was also a jerk to Men in the beginning, as well as to the Noldor when they arrived in Beleriand.:p
You only say that he is a jerk because he sent Beren to the Silmaril quest and therefore it send our friend FF to certain death.

[Thingol's new Wife]

Sister Golden Hair is exactly why I chose my user name, and My King. Finrod is great, but I feel for Thingol, I have two daughters, and no one would be good enough for them in my eye's.:D

[Radagast The Brown]

I didn't like Thigol either. Probably because of the way he died. (By the way, I didn't like the way FF died too. He died too soon.)

[Rosie Gamgee]

I kinda like Thingol. He impresses me as somewhat . . . what's the word? . . . em . . . watery- irresponsible (?). I mean, he wanders off into the woods when he's supposed to be leading his people to the promised land, and he sees this beautiful maia and freezes on the spot. He stays there for years and years just staring at her, and then she decides to marry him (probably to get him to stop staring at her). Kinda dumb.

I think I like Gil-galad the very best.

[NoldorianExile]

Gil-Galad is my favorite king!!!

[genewyn]

i believe that Melain was my favorite elf lord. although she is a woman, she played a huge part in the book and kept milions of people safe. after all, think what Melkor would have done without the Girdle of Melain!!!!:eek:

[Radagast The Brown]

Umm... Melian is not an elf...

[genewyn]

oh, oops. well then. screw me!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, Melian was and wasn't an Elf. She was a Maia that took elven form. But I think this thread is about kings.

[Radagast The Brown]

Only kings? :confused: Are you sure? What about Galadriel, she was an elven queen...

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Only kings? :confused: Are you sure? What about Galadriel, she was an elven queen... Well, the title of the thread is "Favorite Elf-King." Galadriel is never referred to in the text as a queen, even though she was of the line of kings, and of the house of Finwe.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, the title of the thread is "Favorite Elf-King." Galadriel is never referred to in the text as a queen, even though she was of the line of kings, and of the house of Finwe. Ok. If there was an elvenqueen, (for example - you) and she was my favorite, I think it's not right to claim that she's not a king - since the writer of the thread didn't think, when he started it, about queens too.

[genewyn]

anybody want me to make an elvish name for them?
i love writing names for people. its sooo much fun

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Ok. If there was an elvenqueen, (for example - you) and she was my favorite, I think it's not right to claim that she's not a king - since the writer of the thread didn't think, when he started it, about queens too. Well, the word "king" signifies a male sovereign. Galadriel isn't male. There were no queens mentioned among the Eldar that I know of.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by genewyn
anybody want me to make an elvish name for them?
i love writing names for people. its sooo much fun
Oh... sure... can you make an Elven name for Ruinel? (My original name is Rúnyél, but I adapted it to the language here.)

I am such a bad Elf. hehehe :D

Radagast!!! You trouble maker!!! How many times do I have to tell you: Quit pickin' fights with the Atani!

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Radagast!!! You trouble maker!!! How many times do I have to tell you: Quit pickin' fights with the Atani! SGH is not an atan... right...? :eek: :rolleyes: I always thought that the Queen of Nargothrond is an elf.

[Sister Golden Hair]

That is correct RTB.:)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
SGH is not an atan... right...? :eek: :rolleyes: I always thought that the Queen of Nargothrond is an elf.
If she says so. ;) :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Get back on topic guys.

[Durin1]

I have to say that Finrod is my favourite as well. Unlike many of the other chief characters in the Silmarillion, Finrod comes out as being the least flawed. He was so greatly respected by the Dwarves of Ered Luin that they gave him the name that he is commonly known as (Galadriel in LoTR mentions Felagund as opposed to her brother's real name). The Dwarves also gifted him the Nauglamir (which apparently he prized above any others of his treasures).

In addition, Tolkien also states that Finrod was the first person that met the newly arrived "men" into Beleriand. I take this as being an honourary tribute to Finrod.

[Elenna Alaniel]

Finrod Felegund and Fingolfin.Finrod for everything he have done for Beren and Fingolfin becouse he had strength to chalenge Morgoth.Why all my favorite characters have to die:(

[Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood]

Yes, Finrod Felagund.

[Lord Manafirogh]

There's so many too choose from. I think Feanor and Finglofin are two of the greatest if not THE greatest elf kings. Its hard to choose between them but if I would choose Fingolfin as my favourite only because feanor came across as the bad guy in the beggining. As in strength i think feanor is slightly stronger. Not much to chose betwen them though. So there you go Fingolfin is slightly the better king but closely followed by his brothers. Not to forget the hidden king Turgon Another great elf. Too many for me but maybe fingolfin since he had the guts to face Morgoth by himself.

[durin's bane]

Fingolfin is my favourite. He was really brave in challenging Morgoth, but he didn't have much sense in doing that.