Lore Masters' Quote Game - Part 1

[Valandil]

'hence'?

(Not the word that I would most often use to describe how far some journey is :p )

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

It seems "hence" meant "here" way back when.

"Whence goeth thou?"
"I goest from hence to thence."

He had to go "far from here" on his journey.

[Valandil]

Then was I correct, and that's the last word and it's my turn?

I inferred as much, but I just wanted to make sure before I found a quote and posted it.

(I'm slow to take a hint - you have to tell me straight out! :) )

[Varnafindë]

It seems "hence" meant "here" way back when.

"Whence goeth thou?"
"I goest from hence to thence."

He had to go "far from here" on his journey.

Apparently Shakespeare uses it that way, too. I remember from some amateur Shakespeare production, when after a while we got into doing lots of our ordinary talking in quotes, one of the quotes we used a lot was "Let us depart from hence" (e.g. when we were going home).

[Varnafindë]

Then was I correct, and that's the last word and it's my turn?

I inferred as much, but I just wanted to make sure before I found a quote and posted it.

(I'm slow to take a hint - you have to tell me straight out! :) )

I took it upon me to check against the text - the last word is 'hence' (correctly) and it is your turn, Valandil. :)

(I guess we're allowed to double-post after a month :rolleyes: )

[Valandil]

OK - sorry for further delay upon the initial delay, but here's one I can serve up:

"V_n_t_a_y_/i_/h_s/_i_h_/n_m_/.
/L_t/_i_/g_/b_c_/t_/t_e/_a_d/_h_r_/i_/b_l_n_s!"

[Count Comfect]

is his _i_h_ name. Let him go back to the land where it belongs.

By the way, hence = "from here" (although you can use it as from hence as well), thence = from there, and whence = from where. Hither = to here, thither = to there, whither = to where.

[Varnafindë]

'right'?

[Valandil]

Solves are correct so far.

Need the first word and speaker.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Vinatiamyn?

I'm just guessing letters here.

[Earniel]

If I got the scene right where the quote comes from, the first word is 'Vinitharya'?

[Valandil]

That is the correct solution to the quote.

Only the speaker, we need.

[Valandil]

Over three weeks and still no tried on the speaker.

Shall we just move on?

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I think Eärniel deserves the win since he came up with Vinitharya. I don't have a clue about the scene or speaker.

[Varnafindë]

She's implying that she knows the scene. She's the closest so far, and gave the last answer. I have no idea about the source of this - not even what book it comes from ...

[Valandil]

If Earniel wants it - she can post next.

(Earniel - if you do not, say so and we can open the floor to anyone)

Speaker: a little tricky, because no proper name is given and it isn't an individual, but a group.

The setting is Gondor in the middle of the Third Age, and this statement demonstrates the feelings about King Eldacar which led to the usurpation by Castamir and the subsequent Kin-Strife (though the statement came while his father, Valacar, was still King).

The best we really have for speaker is, "... many of those who declared that they would never accept as king a man half of foreign race, born in an alien country."

as stated in HoME 12, Peoples of Middle Earth, chapter on "The Making of Appendix A", page 261 in my hardbound edition.

I would have taken anything halfway close though.

[Earniel]

I guessed the scene, but didn't know the speaker (figures, since he wasn't named and I was expecting a named person) and didn't want to peek. Just so you'd know I wasn't doing it to escape having to post a quote. :)

Anyway, it might be a few days before I can lay hands on my English books, so I'd say: anyone who would want a go, go for it. And otherwise, I will post a quote when I'm able, somewhere within the next few days.

[Earniel]

Aaaand I forgot. :rolleyes:

"W_e_/w_i_h_y/_a_t_r_/a_e/_n/_e_a_e/,/_i_h_a_d_r/,/_/w_n_e_/a/_i_t_e/
_h_t/_o_/s_o_l_/p_a_/w_t_/y_u_/t_y_/o_/f_r_/a_d/_m_k_/,/w_i_e/_t_e_s/
_r_/i_/e_r_e_t/_p_e_h/."

[Valandil]

"When /w_i_h_y/_a_t_r_/a_e/_n/_e_a_e/,/_i_h_a_d_r/,/_/w_n_e_/a/_i_t_e/
that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others
are in earnest /_p_e_h."

[Earniel]

Correct so far. :)

[Valandil]

'...Mithrandir, I wonder a little...'?

Is it 'earnest speech'?

[Earniel]

Correct again.

[Varnafindë]

/weighty/matters/are/on

I think the speaker is Saruman.

[Valandil]

if not 'on' - maybe 'in'?

Is 'debate' the other word?

[Earniel]

When weighty matters are in debate, Mithrandir, I wonder a little that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others are in earnest speech."

Solved! Saruman is indeed the speaker.

Your turn, Val.

[Valandil]

"I/_m/_l_/a_d/_a_b_e/,/_a_t_r/./_i_d/_e/_o_/!
/B_t/_h_u_h/_t/_e/_l_a_a_t/_o/_p_a_/t_e/_l_/
t_n_u_/w_t_/o_e/_h_t/_p_a_s/_t/_a_r/_s/_n/_i_e_/p_s_/,
/t_e/_a_s/_r_/i_l/_n_/o_e/_u_t/_e/_a_y/.
/_o_/a_l/_h_t/_p_a_/t_e/_a_r/_o_g_e/_r_/f_i_/a_/h_a_t."

[Valandil]

Oops! Sorry if anyone saw it - but when I first posted that, I left all the letters in. :o:o

[Earniel]

Yes, I accidentally read it in the notification mails, so I will be passing up on this round. ;)

[Varnafindë]

/the/days/are/ill/and/one/must/be/wary/.

[Valandil]

Varnafinde - correct solve for line 4. :)

[Varnafindë]

"I/am/ill/and/_a_b_e/,/Master/./Mind/me/not/!
/But/though/it/be/_l_a_a_t/to/speak/the/old/
tongue/with/one/that/speaks/it/fair/as/in/times/past/,

the days are ill and one must be wary.

/For/all/that/speak/the/fair/tongue/are/fair/at/heart."

I have no idea about the speaker, though.

[Valandil]

Wrong words are 'ill' in the first line, and the 'For' that starts the last line. Other solves are correct (I think - I'm not looking at the quote - I'll check it later - but I think the rest are all good)

[Varnafindë]

"Not all", then, giving it the opposite meaning - which fits better with the quote as a whole as well.

Old instead of ill?

[Valandil]

Both of those changes are correct. :)

That leaves us with two words to go, and the speaker.

[Varnafindë]

"I am old and /_a_b_e/, Master. Mind me not!
But though it be /pleasant/ to speak the old
tongue with one that speaks it fair as in times past,
the days are ill and one must be wary.
Not all that speak the fair tongue are fair at heart."

[Valandil]

'pleasant' is correct. One word left, plus speaker. :)

[Varnafindë]

Is it time now for trying to work out individual letters? :confused:

I honestly don't know that last word, and I've no idea about the speaker.
At least I can bump the thread :D

[Valandil]

Would you guys like a little hint on this one?

[Count Comfect]

ramble?

[Valandil]

Not 'ramble' - but you're on the right track.

[Count Comfect]

Gotta be "babble" then.

[Valandil]

'babble' is correct - and the quote is fully solved.

Got a speaker? :)

[Varnafindë]

Is it spoken by an Elf?
In case you might be willing to give out hints ...

[Valandil]

Willing I am,
An Elf, it is not.

:)

[Count Comfect]

Just to threadbump. A man?

[Valandil]

Yes - it is a man.

[Valandil]

Just saw that this had languished a long time and perhaps needed a teeny little bump... maybe at least a bumpette! :D

In the 'Hint Department' - this happens to be another lead-in to our upcoming discussion of UT, I believe. ;)

[Valandil]

Well... it's about 4 1/2 months since the solve on the quote. And no solid attempts at speaker.

Should I give more hints? Or should I just give the speaker and let someone take it? Or... is everyone tired of the game? :p

[Varnafindë]

More hints, please! :)

[Valandil]

Man with a bum leg. :)

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Turin's childhood friend. Turin called him Labadal but I don't remember his actual given name.

[Valandil]

I'll take that DPR. His given name was Sador. You take the next turn. :)

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Coming at around 3:30pm EST...

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I/_a_e/_h_s_n/_h_e/,/_n_/t_o_/s_a_t/_e/_y/_p_u_e/,/_v_n/_s/_a_d_/i_/t_/M_n_ë/,/
_n_/t_g_t_e_/w_/s_a_l/_i_l_/a_l/_p_e_d_u_/a_d/_a_t_r_/./
T_e_/t_e/_i_g_h_p/_f/_r_a/_h_l_/b_/m_n_/i_/d_e_/a_/i_/r_g_t/,/
_n_/t_o_/s_a_t/_e/_h_/p_r_n_r/_f/_y/_l_r_/./

[Valandil]

"I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my /_p_u_e/,
even as /_a_d_/ is to Manwë,
and together we shall /_i_l_/ all /_p_e_d_u_/ and masters.
Then the /_i_g_h_p/ of Arda shall be mine in deed as in right,
and thou shalt be the partner of my /_l_r_."

sounds very Melkorish...

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

All correct except one word. It isn't 'masters' but it is very very close.

[Valandil]

Hmmm... still thinking.

is 'kingship' in there?

even as 'candy' is to Manwe? :confused:
even as 'daddy' is to Manwe? :D

partner of my 'alarm'? :p

[Earniel]

I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my spouse, even as Varda is to Manwë...

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

You're doing well, and the speaker guess is correct. Melkor. Just three words to go now.

"I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my spouse,
even as Varda is to Manwë,
and together we shall /_i_l_/ all /_p_e_d_u_/ and /_a_t_r_.
Then the kingship of Arda shall be mine in deed as in right,
and thou shalt be the partner of my /_l_r_."

[Valandil]

But 'masters' is not right - correct? That would make four unsolved words.

Grrr... can't come up with anything more. Getting out of practice...

[Varnafindë]

Is it simply 'matters'?

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Valandil was closer with "masters." Hint: just the last letter is different.

[Valandil]

Oh - then 'mastery'? I thought Varnafinde's would have been right.

I'm still coming up blank with the other words. I'll take another look at them.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

"mastery" is the correct word. Hint: the middle word has a British-style ending as opposed to an American one.

"I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my spouse,
even as Varda is to Manwë,
and together we shall /_i_l_/ all /_p_e_d_u_/ and mastery.
Then the kingship of Arda shall be mine in deed as in right,
and thou shalt be the partner of my /_l_r_."

[Valandil]

'splendour'?

[AndMorgothCame.]

"DELETED" - As not to interrupt someone else!

Fantastic prose!

[Earniel]

wield?

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

splendour and wield are correct. Sorry for the delay! :o

"I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my spouse,
even as Varda is to Manwë,
and together we shall wield all splendour and mastery.
Then the kingship of Arda shall be mine in deed as in right,
and thou shalt be the partner of my /_l_r_."

[Earniel]

Oh *light bulb moment*

Glory?

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

You got it!

[Earniel]

Warning: poetic language ahead.

"T_e_e/_i_t_e/l_s_/i_/I/_e_e/_e_d/,
_n_/I/_m/_i_d_d/_l_/t_/t_l_/,
a_d/_h_s/,/_e_c_a_c_/,/f_o_/t_i_/d_r_/h_l_/
t_y/_i_e/_o/_o_s_/./I/_e_/t_e_/f_e_/
f_o_/t_i_e/_l_/o_t_/,/f_r/_o_e/_o_/m_/
h_s_/t_o_/e_d_r_d/_h_n/_'e_/w_s/_a_n_d/."

[Varnafindë]

/I/set/thee/free/
from/thine/old/oath/,

I don't recognize it from anywhere here and now, but it certainly contains poetic language.

[Earniel]

Correct so far. :)

[Varnafindë]

"There/_i_t_e/loss/if/I/were/dead/,

I cannot find a last word to make that phrase make sense - possibly because of other wrong words in it :D

[Earniel]

You were close, but the first word is not a common one. :)

"T_e_e/_i_t_e/loss if I were dead,
_n_/I/_m/_i_d_d/_l_/t_/t_l_/,
a_d/_h_s/,/_e_c_a_c_/,/f_o_/t_i_/d_r_/h_l_/
t_y/_i_e/_o/_o_s_/./I set thee free
from thine old oath,/f_r/_o_e/_o_/m_/
h_s_/t_o_/e_d_r_d/_h_n/_'e_/w_s/_a_n_d/."

[Earniel]

Should I give a hint?

[Varnafindë]

and/I/am/minded/all/to/tell/,

I could try at some of the other lines first, before getting a hint.

[Earniel]

Correct! :)

[Varnafindë]

"Theye/_i_t_e/

(Just a guess - trying to make it look dated ...
No idea yet about the second word, though.)

and/this/,/_e_c_a_c_/,/from/this/dark/hell/

/for/none/for/me/

[Earniel]

So far you have:

"T_e_e/_i_t_e/loss if I were dead,
and I am minded all to tell,
and/_h_s/,/_e_c_a_c_/, from this dark hell
t_y/_i_e/_o/_o_s_/./I set thee free
from thine old oath, for/_o_e/for me
h_s_/t_o_/e_d_r_d/_h_n/_'e_/w_s/_a_n_d/."

[Varnafindë]

thy life to loose

[Earniel]

Correct! You're doing well. :)

[Varnafindë]

and/thus/,/_e_c_a_c_/,

for/gone/for me
hast/thou/endured/when/e'en/was/_a_n_d/."

[Earniel]

Getting closer. Only a few words wrong.

This is what you have so far. I've put the latest additions in bold:

"T_e_e/_i_t_e/loss if I were dead,
and I am minded all to tell,
and thus/,/_e_c_a_c_/, from this dark hell
t_y/_i_e/_o/_o_s_/./I set thee free
from thine old oath, for/_o_e/for me
hast thou endured _h_n/_'e_/was/_a_n_d/."

[Varnafindë]

"thy life to loose" should be in there as well ...

/more/for me
hast thou endured than/

[Midge]

"Twere little loss if I were dead,
and I am minded all to tell,
and thus, perchance, from this dark hell
thy life to loose. I set thee free
from thine old oath, for more for me
hast thou endured than e'er was/_a_n_d/."

[Earniel]

Correct! Only one word left. Any ideas on the speaker?

[Varnafindë]

banned? Although, again, the guess doesn't make sense ...

No idea at all on the speaker.

[Midge]

All I could think of was "canned" and I was pretty darn sure that was wrong.

[Earniel]

HINT:

The first letter is a vowel.

[Varnafindë]

"Twere little loss if I were dead,
and I am minded all to tell,
and thus, perchance, from this dark hell
thy life to loose. I set thee free
from thine old oath, for more for me
hast thou endured than e'er was/_a_n_d/."


earned?

[Earniel]

Correct!

Which leaves only the speaker to be found.

[Varnafindë]

Does anyone know who said this?
I have no idea, not even of the occasion where it is said.

Please - I'd like to see this game running again, but I don't have enough knowledge.

[Earniel]

Oh, I had forgotten it was my quote that was still 'open'!

I'll give a hint as to finding the speaker. The oath mentioned is the key. Think of someone who did indeed endure much to see an old oath fullfulled, and it may become clear to you to whom the speaker is speaking and what his own identity is.

[Varnafindë]

Not all that clear, as I'm not sure which oath we're speaking of ...
Could it be Beren and Finrod and all that Ring of Barahir business? And would it then be Beren speaking to Finrod?

[Earniel]

Ah yes, there are quite a bit of oaths taken in the Silmarillion events. :p But you guessed correctly, it is indeed Beren talking to Finrod, from the Lays of Beleriand.

Your turn, then. :)

[Varnafindë]

H_a_k_n/_o_/,/O/_a_a_/!/T_/m_/f_r_t_l_i_g/_s/_r_n_e_/n_/l_s_/
_h_n/_o_m/,/_n_/I/_i_l/_r_c_a_m/_o_/t_/y_u/_h_n_s/_o_h/_e_r/_n_/
f_r/./_e_o_d/!/_n_i_/t_e/_a_r/_h_l_/b_/m_d_/g_a_/a_d/_r_i_f_l/,/_h_/
_i_h_/e_s_/h_v_/b_e_/s_l_t_r_/./F_r/_o_/i_/d_a_h/_n_y/_a_h/_h_/
S_a_o_/e_t_r_d/_n_o/_m_n/_i_h/_h_/c_m_n_/o_/t_e/_h_l_r_n/
_e_t_n_d/_o/_u_f_r/;/_h_r_/a_e/_t_e_/s_r_o_s/,/_v_n/_f/_h_y/_e/_e_s/./

[Count Comfect]

Harken now, O Valar! To me...

[Midge]

Harken now, O Valar! To me /f_r_t_l_i_g/is granted no less than /_o_m/,/
and I will/_r_c_a_m/_o_/to you things both near and far.
Behold/!/_n_i_/the/_a_r/shall be made gray and/_r_i_f_l/,/
the/_i_h_/east have been solitary.
For/_o_/is death only/_a_h/_h_/Sauron entered into Aman with the coming of the Children/_e_t_n_d/to sulfur;
There are other serious, even if they be /_e_s/./

[Count Comfect]

Gonna guess that's actually "suffer" and "sorrows" instead of "sulfur" and "serious." Even if they "be less"?

[Earniel]

"I will proclaim now"?

[Varnafindë]

"Harken" in the first line isn't quite right - there's a letter missing from H_a_k_n/, but I won't simply say it's wrong, because then you might be misled.

Midge - good job! Just some few mistakes.
"gray" in line 3 is wrong.
"the" and "east" in line 4 are wrong.
"is" in line 5 is wrong - so is "Sauron" in the same line. Compare to S_a_o_/.

Count Comfect is right in his corrections and additions - so is Eärniel.

So now we have

H_a_k_n/ now, O Valar! To me /f_r_t_l_i_g/is granted no less than /_o_m/,/
and I will proclaim now to you things both near and far.
Behold/!/_n_i_/the/_a_r/shall be made /g_a_/ and/_r_i_f_l/,/
_h_/_i_h_/e_s_/ have been solitary.
For/_o_/i_/ death only/_a_h/_h_/S_a_o_/ entered into Aman with the coming of the Children/_e_t_n_d/to suffer;
there are other sorrows, even if they be less.

[Rían]

are the first three hearken, foretelling and doom?

and then for not in death only ? the Shadow entered ... destined

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Between "not in death" and "the Shadow entered," hath. And the first word of line 4, I'm guessing is who.

[Earniel]

"H_a_k_n/ now, O Valar! To me foretelling is granted no less than doom, and I will proclaim now to you things both near and far. Behold! Until the/_a_r/shall be made glad and/_r_i_f_l/, thy light e_s_/ have been solitary. For not in death only hath the Shadow entered into Aman with the coming of the Children destined to suffer; there are other sorrows, even if they be less."

[Varnafindë]

Rian - yes!
Gwaimir - yes!

Eärniel - "glad" is correct :)

We now have:

Hearken now, O Valar! To me foretelling is granted no less than doom,
and I will proclaim now to you things both near and far.
Behold! /_n_i_/the/_a_r/shall be made glad and/_r_i_f_l/,/
who _i_h_/e_s_/ have been solitary.
For not in death only hath the Shadow entered into Aman with the coming of the Children destined to suffer;
there are other sorrows, even if they be less.

Missing 5 words and the speaker. :)

[Rían]

"Annie the fair" shall be made glad?


;)

[Varnafindë]

Not "Annie the fair", but "someone else the fair". :)
We're getting closer ...

[Rían]

Indis and fruitful? and is the last one "else"? I'm stuck on that other one ...

Is the speaker one of the Valar?

[Varnafindë]

You are right so far - one of the Valar indeed!

"Hearken now, O Valar! To me foretelling is granted no less than doom, and I will proclaim now to you things both near and far. Behold! Indis the fair shall be made glad and fruitful, who /_i_h_/ else have been solitary. For not in death only hath the Shadow entered into Aman with the coming of the Children destined to suffer; there are other sorrows, even if they be less."

So one word left - and then which Vala?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The foretelling and doom business tells me its probably Namo.

[Varnafindë]

It tells you the truth!

Just the last word then.

[Midge]

might else have been solitary.

I have no idea which Valar, but I'll guess: Ulmo?

[Varnafindë]

'might' is the missing word.

The Vala isn't Ulmo, and Gwai has already said correctly that it is Namo, also known as Mandos.

So you had the final word, and it's your turn here as well, Midge ... ;)

[Midge]

Fortunately for me, I have one of the required texts.

However, I'm utterly overwhelmed by this honor; I don't think I deserve it. My book won't open far enough for me to inspect quotes for usage because it's never really been read.

I'd like to pass this quote on - it's up in the air. I'll read the book and get back to this thread. :D

[Gwaimir Windgem]

My book won't open far enough because it's never really been read.


Pages still uncut, eh? ;)

[Midge]

unbroken in, at least. It's so difficult to keep attention on some of that commentary.