*Discussion Thread* Of NazgÃ»l-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign (Calling all NazgÃ»l II) [Archive] - Page 2

Earniel

09-09-2005, 06:16 PM

I know Val is infatuated with EÃ¤rniel (logical :p )
Why is that logical? have you read Lilly's description? :p The girl's hard to compete with. (Not that EÃ¤rniel plans on that. Not at all. Never crossed her mind. Never even met her.)

Nay, I have another plan. Butterbeer kept the thought of this game in my mind, so I found myself thinking, "if I were to play, I would this is the character I would use . . . if I were to play, this would be the plot thread I would develop . . ." Those thoughts continued to develop themselves and become fairly detailed, until the interest in playing was greatly magnified.
*claps hands* Heehee, I so knew you wouldn't be able to resist that. :D But it's good, very good. We always could use a little plotting.

*checks own map if drought at Grey-flood has consequences for NÃ®n In Eilph.* Doesn't look that way.

But I'm curious, would Elves turn to the King of Men to solve matters? I always got the impression that Elves answered to their own leaders, regardless of the human Kings that held the lands surrounding them.

we expected Lief to be good and so far he is!
Told you. ;)

liked the follow-on from the Valandil and Earniel show ... half Elven satisfaction ... what would Earniel's mum think?? ;) :D
Valandil and EÃ¤rniel show? LOL. And I think EÃ¤rniel will make sure her mother will not bring anything... embarassing into conversations. ;)

RÃan

09-09-2005, 06:16 PM

Hmm. Different character response than the one I expected. I expected you'd give me directions that would guide me straight to the Lonely Mountain ;).
that's the human (and female) in me - unpredictable!! :D

... half Elven satisfaction ... what would Earniel's mum think?? Hey, I never gave specifics - I can innuendo with the best of 'em, tho! :D

(I'll just say that RÃ*an's views of those matters sides entirely - at least so far - with the elvish view as stated by JRRT in his essay "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar" in HoME 10, Morgoth's Ring )

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 06:29 PM

But I'm curious, would Elves turn to the King of Men to solve matters? I always got the impression that Elves answered to their own leaders, regardless of the human Kings that held the lands surrounding them.
Good point. I didn't realize at that time that Val was a man. I was actually rather playing under the assumption that everyone was an elf. My bad, most definitely. That's what comes of not reading CrazySquirrel and Lotesse's advice and reading all the thread first :eek: .

I think this matter can be reasonably explained away, however. Tell me what you think.

My explanation: The petitioners aren't all elves. Those that are elves might have over time integrated with Val's kingdom. So there are men and elves. This was a time of alliance between men and elves also, so greater connection between the two makes some sense from a historical standpoint.

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 06:40 PM

*checks own map if drought at Grey-flood has consequences for NÃ®n In Eilph.* Doesn't look that way.
But the civilizations are very close. The Glanduin and Mitheithel are tributaries to the Grey-Flood, and they run through NÃ®n In Eilph. So I rather think the elven settlement would be feeling it some.
that's the human (and female) in me - unpredictable!!

:p Well, I'm glad you're unpredictable. I didn't really fancy a journey to the Lonely Mountain, in fact ;).

Earniel

09-09-2005, 06:48 PM

My explanation: The petitioners aren't all elves. Those that are elves might have over time integrated with Val's kingdom. So there are men and elves. This was a time of alliance between men and elves also, so greater connection between the two makes some sense from a historical standpoint.
Sounds good to me. That way the people in Tharbad won't be too surprised to have Elves and Half-Elves, like RÃ*an and me, running around their city. Which incidentally makes it easier for us to play. :D

But the civilizations are very close. The Glanduin and Mitheithel are tributaries to the Grey-Flood, and they run through NÃ®n In Eilph. So I rather think the elven settlement would be feeling it some.
Yes, but the Grey-flood receives water from the Hoarwell, the Bruinen and the Glanduin, while the Glanduin alone is responsible for the swamps of NÃ®n In Eilph. So technically, supposing the problem is at the source of the Hoarwell or the Bruinen, NÃ®n In Eilph should barely feel a thing. But I reckon that, even so, the water level in the swamp would probably drop somewhat if the water level of the Grey-flood drops. So yes, you're probably right. I'll keep that in account from now on.

CrazySquirrel

09-09-2005, 07:12 PM

heh CS ... any advice for my chat with ref: the squirrel clan meeting? wanna play Acornagorn for me? ... it won't be a large part ... probably! ;)

No time, BB, I have Lily on my hands. I am not too good in writing meaningless posts about Squirrels and such (mark you, I didn't mention Butterflies), though I admit you do it masterfully! No offence, please BB!

TD, I am glad you liked my "man". Let him become Khamul.

Omar Sharif could be proposed to GW.

BB, if you can find a sexier Gordis, please post it. Let her choose. Gor, could you find a pic yourself?

I am still confused with all these new developments.

And perhaps I am wierd, but I don't think this plot with elves and river and ecology should be developed further. No offence. But, man, we have the Ring and Nazgul and housekeepers and students etc. on our hands already not to speak about this Barlog? coming to tharbad.

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 07:16 PM

What's this about a Balrog? On which post did that :eek: enter the story?

EDIT: Hang on . . . are you referring to my character? ;)

Lotesse

09-09-2005, 07:16 PM

And perhaps I am weird, but I don't think this plot with elves and river and ecology should be developed further. No offence. But, man, we have the Ring and Nazgul and housekeepers and students etc. on our hands already not to speak about this Barlog? coming to tharbad.
I agree with you here, CS.

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 07:27 PM

Lotesse and CrazySquirrel, I respect your viewpoints.

Let me tell you about one of my ways of doing things. I like to create little mysteries without explaining everything about them. Characters to other players figure out these mysteries, and they aren't all separate adventures. What I'm trying to do at this moment in the RPG is bind everything together. Ring, Nazgul, Balrog, ecology and all. It's all one plot, not multiple separate plots. If they were multiple completely separate plots, then I would agree with you. Having the ecology thing as well seems a bit overwhelming. Heck, I like just having one plot thread. Having just two that are completely separate can be complicated.

What I'm doing right now is binding everything together into one massive plot thread. Of course, if you want me to keep my prying hands off, that's completely fine. I'll accept that, and probably leave the game, just because it is so hard for me to avoid plotting!!! (Weeps) So hard.

I am not trying to control anyone's characters at all. Everyone has complete free will. I'm just trying to bring purpose and direction to the game, something that I almost do automatically. It's the way my mind works.

So I'd like it if you would trust me :). These aren't separate plot threads. They aren't an overwhelming hurdle. If they were, I would not only agree with you, I would applaud your judgment. Five or six totally different plot threads all at the same time is TOO MUCH.

Anyway, tell me what you think.

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 07:27 PM

well ... the ecology bit is good, i am all for that, we butterflies need our habitats!

mmm interesting to see what is in the coach (the coach probably should be locked) ...

mind you lief ... i suspect some nazgul will not be happy with announcing so loudly we are here ... we are here in secret! :eek:

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 07:30 PM

The Nazgul call is a strange tongue. Nobody can understand the words, just like in the book.

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 07:32 PM

plus i don't in anyway see seperate plots here ... it's all one ... merely the many parts mixing in the gumbo of our pot-boiler ...

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 07:39 PM

I think the plot threads do appear fairly separate right now. Do you know how the Ring relates to the Nazgul, at present? Or how the Nazgul relate to the ecology? I just hope people will trust me to interlink everything (unless they don't want me to, of course. I like organization and plot focus, but others have different personalities).

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 07:54 PM

Lief :)

could i ask you to slow down a tad please (know that sounds wierd coming from me .. so all involved can add their input! :) )

for sure i have my own ideas too, but i like people to feel they have some (more than some!) involvement in an rpg ... not have it done for them, y'know?

could you take that on board and let it remain interactive? :)

for example gordis has stated she wants the coming of the Nazgul to be secret ... many have taken time with cover stories ... perhaps shouting out heh we are nazgul and we are here! ... could be looked at? :eek:

many thanks
BB
:)

CrazySquirrel

09-09-2005, 08:02 PM

Lotesse and CrazySquirrel, I respect your viewpoints.
I'm just trying to bring purpose and direction to the game, something that I almost do automatically.
You mean our game had no purpose before the Saviour in the guise of a bloated Barlog with a weak nazgul cry had come?
Have you bothered to read the RPG by now? You surely didn't before you started posting your nonsense.
It was a serious RPG, now it is ruined.

So I'd like it if you would trust me :).
I can't.

What I'm doing right now is binding everything together into one massive plot thread. Of course, if you want me to keep my prying hands off, that's completely fine.
Yes I do. I say it officially. KEEP YOUR PRYING HANDS OFF.

One of us will quit now. You or me. Let the others vote.

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 08:18 PM

I have no problem with cutting out the loud call. I can find some way to discreetly request the Nazgul's presence.

I did not mean to make others feel uninvolved. I don't mean to ruin anything that has been happening.

Please don't make this confrontation happen, CrazySquirrel. I'm backing off. If you push this forward, I assure you that I will leave the RPG altogether. It's not a "you or me." You automatically win. I've deleted the contents of my last two posts, and if you ask me to, I'll delete more.

More than one story can definitely happen at once, if you all wish :). I wanted my character to meet with the Nazgul to see if they could work together on a plan, though of course any uninterested Nazgul could totally refuse. I thought this would be fun for all. Clearly I'm running people over by accident-you're right, Butterbeer, moving too fast. I'm an unknown character wandering in, acting like he knows everything and rules the world. Once again, I apologize!

Lotesse

09-09-2005, 08:21 PM

Wherever Lilly and Pengolod go, Viniglaen follows. She is extremely loyal that way. I, for one, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, would be devastated if CS left. There, so I said it.

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 08:25 PM

Wherever Lilly and Pengolod go, Viniglaen follows. She is extremely loyal that way. I, for one, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, would be devastated if CS left. There, so I said it.
This is not going to be a vote. It was your game way before I came in.

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 08:34 PM

CS, :) calm down a bit! :D

I can appreciate what you are saying but i just think Lief is very keen is all!
I have no doubt he has some good ideas ..as do we all ... Lief .. could you just slow down a bit please so everyone can feel valued.

I'm sure it wasn't your intention to say the rpg had no value or direction ... and i am interested to hear your ideas ... but as in any rpg ... theres got to be some give and take ... and time for people to get to know new characters! :D

and we all like to discuss where it's going! :p

CS ... please have a think about it ... you know if it came to it i would side with you (sorry Lief) but both you guys ... i really hope you both stay ... again i'm sure Lief didn't mean it the way you took it ...

though to be fair Lief i had to read that post twice myself!

i'm going to bed in a mo' ... i'll be able to post a little in the morning, but unfortunately i'll be away from then till tuesday ... so guys please don't blow this up while i'm away!

...that'd be a fine birthday present! ;)

The last sane person

09-09-2005, 08:35 PM

Oh hell, I dont want CS to leave! Why would she want to do that?

Welcome in Lief! Good to see you took the plunge!

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 08:37 PM

for example gordis has stated she wants the coming of the Nazgul to be secret ... many have taken time with cover stories ... perhaps shouting out heh we are nazgul and we are here! ... could be looked at? :eek:
One thing about my offensive and now deleted posts on the RPG was that the cry was coming from a mile outside the city. It never indicated there were Nazgul in the city, and it certainly didn't indicate that any of these friendly, seemingly pleasant people in the city were actually Nazgul ;).

Lotesse

09-09-2005, 08:46 PM

Birthday present? Butterbeer, is your birthday coming up?? BUON COMPLEANNO!!! :)

The last sane person

09-09-2005, 08:51 PM

I think the damage has been artfully repaired, so, lets continue peaceabley....please..?

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 08:52 PM

More than one story can definitely happen at once, if you all wish .

well i tend to agree with you ... but this really is still a new-ish rpg ... and people are still arriving with small sub-plots (which i like) but i agree .... i am sure the main plot will crystalize together with just some minor asides to add juicy depth ... but i see this as happening at some point ... but i, for one am always open to new and good ideas :)

but thanks for you posts above Lief ... thanks for editing!

let's hope CS will make her peace .. c'mon Lil :D ... you have this effect on men y'know!

we're all so eager to impress you ... :D :p ;)

and i'm sure as Lief says above he didn't mean it the way you read it!

*tickles Crazy squirrel*

c'mon? *tickles her again* ... hope she likes being tickled? :eek:

best BB :)

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 08:58 PM

I can appreciate what you are saying but i just think Lief is very keen is all! I have no doubt he has some good ideas ..as do we all ... Lief .. could you just slow down a bit please so everyone can feel valued.
Look at my last two posts in the RPG. I'm on rewind ;).
I'm sure it wasn't your intention to say the rpg had no value or direction ...
I didn't mean that it had no value, and I'm sure you all are sending it in very fun directions. I just wanted to see if all these directions could be organized in such a way that they're pointing the same way.

I think of it as a book. In books, there are often numerous plot threads that are seemingly separate and unrelated. However, if one follows the book through to the end, enjoying the mystery, then one finds that the different threads all lead to the same place.

Before I entered the game, I looked at it in the following way: It appeared to be a fun group of rollicking characters, getting to know each other and involving themselves in various self-created, exciting adventures :). However, I didn't see that all these different inventive adventures were all leading to the same place, as in a book. So that's what I was trying to do. While not squelching or looking down on anyone's ideas, I was seeing if they could be tied into one central plot, as in a book, and as in all the other RPGs I've done.

Everyone impacts things. Everyone decides things. Indeed, in my RPGs, as EÃ¤rniel can tell you, I've always encouraged people to think inventively and throw in storylines as much as they please :D. But rather than it being a series of separate and distinct adventures, it's all one story.

I should probably have followed people's advice and read the whole RPG first. I didn't realize that that would be a problem. In response to your statement about Gordis though, Butterbeer, I must say it would be a little bit overwhelming for me to be expected to read the entire discussion thread first as well ;).
and i am interested to hear your ideas ... but as in any rpg ... theres got to be some give and take ... and time for people to get to know new characters! :D
Definitely.
and we all like to discuss where it's going! :p
Here is something, I must confess, I am not used to. In the previous RPGs I've been involved in, fellow roleplayers (like Mathron) would occasionally hide things from me unless they needed help (and Mathron never did ;). We got there in the end anyway). I would hide things from them too. Then we would all have the fun of figuring the mysteries out :D.

So I am not used to a no-mystery form of roleplaying. Lotesse sounded like she liked a bit of political mystery too :). Do you all really want me to lay all my ideas on the table? That would be very, very sad for me. I could, if you the majority of you want it that way. This one I would like to put to the vote, though once again, I will cave in if someone threatens to leave. If everyone knew my plans in advance, I really don't think it would be as enjoyable. For me or for them.

Lotesse

09-09-2005, 09:01 PM

You mean our game had no purpose before the Saviour in the guise of a bloated Barlog with a weak nazgul cry had come?
Have you bothered to read the RPG by now? You surely didn't before you started posting your nonsense.
It was a serious RPG, now it is ruined.
I say it officially. KEEP YOUR PRYING HANDS OFF.

One of us will quit now. You or me. Let the others vote.
Crazy Squirrel is being pretty specific here, folks. And I am right there with her. Period. I hate to start getting negative, because those who know me enough by now know how agro & completely undiplomatic I can be when something's pissing me off, so... I won't. Get agro, that is. But - read above, what she says about "you or me." I want CS, and if Squirrel has to leave I go as well. That is all I have to say on the subject, and I'll reserve writing anything in the rpg for a day, and wait & watch to see who goes where and what happens.

So, ciao until then, my dear fellow gamers! - Viniglaen

Lief Erikson

09-09-2005, 09:03 PM

well i tend to agree with you ... but this really is still a new-ish rpg ... and people are still arriving with small sub-plots (which i like)
Me too :).
but i agree .... i am sure the main plot will crystalize together with just some minor asides to add juicy depth
Good. I already have some ideas on this, but I prefer to leave them a mystery and just show them slowly as the game goes on. If some of them turn out disagreeable to players, I'll change them on the spot. Fair enough?

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 09:10 PM

ref mysteries it's good ... but like you say this particular discussion thread would be a bit of a read! :eek:

just a case of easing into it a bit more i guess ;)

and work with us on this one, i am sure it will be one story, with many chapters and characters indeed , but of the same book with a central story .. and a direction .... guess i'm used to working like this ... lots of characters and ideas and enjoying seeing how they mesh together into a coherrent whole ... like is aid before all the parts are but gumbo in the pot-boiler to be!

and you only get a pot boiler when it comes together .... so i guess we agree.

*tickles CS again* :D

(now REALLY hope she likes being tickled ... ELSE :eek: ! )

( i would send you some come back and cheer us all up by doing so flowers ... but the last ones i sent got returned ... though apparently they semlt nice! :eek: ;) :D )

yeah Lotesse: has been my birthday now for 2 hrs! Thanks! :D

Butterbeer

09-09-2005, 09:15 PM

Lottese: it is not an issue of CS or Lief: i have stated clearly i would side with CS ... and Lief has stated he would leave rather than bring it to that.

can we not just all have a think on it and accept Lief is new to this rpg and didn't mean it the way it may have appeared!

right anyway i'm off to bed.

best all
BB

Valandil

09-09-2005, 09:18 PM

what IS that thing in the coach?!?! :eek:

going over there now ...

careful... I think it might eat you.

Valandil

09-09-2005, 09:20 PM

...But I reckon that, even so, the water level in the swamp would probably drop somewhat if the water level of the Grey-flood drops. So yes, you're probably right. I'll keep that in account from now on.

Be careful yourself then... that could make skinny-dipping all the more revealing! :evil:

*prepares palantir* ;)

Lotesse

09-09-2005, 09:21 PM

Butterbeer: But it is "to that," we don't have to worry about whether or not it will "come to that" because it is already "to that," capiche? You yourself have stated over and over again in the past about how when you say you're going to do something, you stick by what you say - remember? CS has clearly stated her terms. I hardly think they are nebulous terms or idle threats. And, that being said, I am right there behind her if she goes, which she says she will if Lief does not. Sorry Lief, but that is the way it stands. Nothing personal.

The last sane person

09-09-2005, 09:33 PM

For heavens sake, the man is on rewind...there is no need for brinkmanship. I doubt either of them will leave, so calm down. Why would she leave? If leif backtracks as he has and indeeds slows down, I dont see the need for either of them to leave! GOOD GRIEF!

Lotesse

09-09-2005, 09:59 PM

Great post as usual, Shah! I like how he (Ray) jumps up to get the door; and I always love your dialogue.

Oh, and BTW - nice try, with the peace-keeping attempt, I tip my hat (hat? beanie) I tip my beanie to you for your gallant efforts toward diplomatic motivation, but - I'm not posting story until my self-administered 24 hour pause is over, which will be by tomorrow this time. Above post explains how come. C ya then!

RÃan

09-09-2005, 11:56 PM

I think Lief has apologized handsomely for jumping in a bit hastily w/o reading enough background info, and I don't see why we all can't stay now. And I thought CS said she'd leave only if Lief wasn't willing to change - not she'd leave no matter what :confused: And Lief did change, so I think we're fine now, right?

I think maybe we've ALL been a bit on-edge - I know that I lost my temper on the Origins thread in a big way the other day :eek: And I remember something like this happening after 9/11, too - I think we've all been kind of emotionally drained and we're oversensitive. So I vote for giving it another try with everyone :)

As I said, I'm totally new to this, but I've noticed how as soon as I intro'd my character, several of you reached out and included options for her - but they WERE options and I could go either way with them. I thought that was pretty clever, and I'll try to do it that way, too. And I assume that if anyone made my character do anything I don't think she would, that they would retract it if I really, really did NOT like it, right? I imagine we'd all do that.

As far as mysteries, I like them - I'm kinda treating this as RL - I don't have any future planned for my character, but I know her past, and I'm just kind of having her react to things as I think she would.

RÃan

09-10-2005, 12:10 AM

OK, let me know if I got this straight:

Valandil is ... Valandil! the young king headed off to uni for lessons and adventure.

EÃ¤rniel is EÃ¤rniel, the beautiful and feisty leader of the elves of NÃ®n in Eilph

CS is Lily, with green eyes and red-gold hair and buxom-y figure, who is also a Nazgul

CS is also Penny, Lilly's "brother", who is another Naz

LastSane is Marty and Ray, who are Dunedain friends of Val,

BB is Boomerang the mysterious undead butterfly, who seems to have some Nazgul-y powers, too, but is not a Nazgul?

Lotesse is Viv, a gorgeous dark-haired kleptomaniac who is also a Nazgul

TD is Galadannun, apparently a Nazgul, too, posing as a teacher at the uni

and RÃ*an is RÃ*an, a lovely half-elven maiden with mysterious ties to Gondolin.

Is this basically right? Please correct me if I got anything wrong, I'm v. new at this!

(and I just KNOW I'm going to get all fouled up with geography - that's my worst subject, and you guys seem to know so much!!)

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 01:53 AM

Is anyone interested in hearing some ideas about how my "weak Nazgul scream" might be made without interfering with anyone's disguises or subplots?

RÃan

09-10-2005, 02:37 AM

I missed the whole thing, so go ahead and explain your idea, please :)

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 02:50 AM

Telcontar_Dunedain

09-10-2005, 03:33 AM

Butterbeer

09-10-2005, 06:00 AM

what's the world coming too when last sane person and me! :eek: are the emmisaries of diplomacy ??? :p

Thanks shah: great post!

You are right Rian:

Lief: at one point people were woke up thinking of nazgul and soldiers were alerted .... anyways .. plus the weakness of a nazgul cry???? :p ... i can see you are a real PR man ! ;) :)

Lotesse; i TOTALLY understand and RESPECT your honouring your word. Absolutely :) . CS too of course. :) :)

My feeling like most other peoples was that CS was threatening Lief not to 'get his prying hands all over the rpg' or else it would be her or him ... whatever the exact words were .... and Lief has rewound honourably like Shah and RIan said, NOT that that was it!

anyway we all need time to reflect.

Valandil

09-10-2005, 06:43 AM

Good post, Val.
Only I doubt that a bartender or a servant would be admitted to the University. I think, it was for nobles only. ME is not a democratic place, not at all. Neither was Numenor. :) Of course, it is just my thought, I have nothing to prove my POV...

Just throwing in some touches of 'modern culture' into this setting... like a University that's considered a 'party school' - or 'tabloid press', ready to write all kinds of crazy rumors about the royals - and maybe a few other things.

In ME, I don't think we even see evidence of anything like universities, etc. - so I was just taking it step further to introduce someone 'working their way through'. :)

OK - looks like I missed a little craziness and tension - and when I hopped on last night, it was only for a few moments, because the kids were demanding my attention almost as much as you guys. ;) I have to leave real soon now too. But I hope we've all started to iron things out.

CS - can you accept things with the retractions that Lief has made?

Lief - I missed your edited posts - but for now, things are still going peacefully at Tharbad - and I think a Nazgul call - even if it was weak, and outside the city, and in a language nobody but Nazgul understood - would set the whole town on edge. And there are probably plenty of 'war veterans' around who WOULD recognize it for what it was. For now, Nazgul and the rest of us are interacting - and the rest of us don't have a clue. After something like that, we Men and Elves would start looking for anything suspicious (right now... they have us where they want us :p ). (EDIT: and if he IS a Balrog - the one in Moria is due to sleep undisturbed for another 1931 years - and has no clue about the Ring or Ringwraiths)

Oh - and no, I don't think any orcs would venture into the world of Men or Elves or Dwarves in ME... they'd be shot on sight.

Rian - I think you got much of the summary right. Gordis is also due to bring in another Nazgul soon. Funny... I had been hoping the non-Nazguls would outnumber the Nazguls (like about 2 to 1 - or even 3 to 2) - but we're really getting swamped by Nazguls - and have a potential Balrog or Blarog or Barlog at the gates! :eek:

*joins in the tickling of CS* (EDIT: WHoops... TICKLING it is! :D )

Valandil

09-10-2005, 06:54 AM

Oh yeah - and "Last Sane Person" - the game of 'Dunedain Football' is sort of a cross between 'Capture the Flag' and Rugby... 'no holds barred' - as BB says. :)

Gordis

09-10-2005, 06:54 AM

What I posted originally, and then deleted, was a weak and distorted Nazgul scream erupting from outside the city that summoned the other Nazgul, pleading with them to come and join him in the grove he was waiting at. My recent ideas were simply as follows.

The call was from outside the city, not in. It also isn't blowing anyone's disguise, because the call is in a Mordor/ringwraith-cry language, which no one but Nazgul would understand. The people of Tharbad therefore have no reason to believe there are other Nazgul in their settlement, and even if they did wonder, they'd have absolutely no reason to finger any of the existing Nazgul.

As regards disruption of sub-plots, I don't think that this would be an issue either. We could play it as "Fellowship of the Ringwraiths" is done, in that there are all sorts of side adventures and detours while people are doing the main quest. Meanwhile, if none of the Nazgul like my character's idea anyway, they can just ignore him completely.

So that's my basic idea. There's no reason for disguises to be compromised. There's no reason why sub-plots must cease.

I honestly was thinking that way the whole time. I was a little dense, and didn't realize that people would assume my translation of the Nazgul speech was available for all to hear. It was actually meant for only other Nazgul to be able to properly understand.

I was a bit confused as to why people were objecting so vehemently to those two posts I sent, but I'm hopeful that this clarification will help.

So the mystery is solved. The disgusting thing in a carriage was meant to be a NAZGUL. If it is your idea of them, we have nothing to do with you. I will not continue to participate, if your posts are not deleted entirely. That character ruins the game.

Re: your post #268
Normally when a new player enters the game, he has to ask permission to introduce the new character, and be careful with other people's (who were here before you!) ideas.

Look at it this way. Several artists are working on a big mosaic representing, say, the Siege of Barad Dur. Everyone starts at his/her corner and puts together an intricate pattern keeping their utmost attention to detail. The centre of the picture is still empty, but all the workers have already a rather detailed picture of the whole in their minds, the whole thing was already discussed and agreed upon. Then a stranger comes, and seeing the empty space in the centre, makes a picture of a sexy blonde in a bikini. When the startled artists complain, he explains haughtily, that they were working on disjointed pieces and now they sort of have the central theme and the right direction and he is the one who knows what the picture should look, when finished. And he points out that he never touched any of the corners other people were working at. To show his goodwill he even agrees to dress the blonde a little.

I propose to Valandil, who has the divine right to split threads, take away your posts starting with #44 into a new RPG. Then you can have your plot and direct it as you like.

I side with CS and Lotesse.

Butterbeer

09-10-2005, 06:58 AM

heh Valandil! :)

well the "gutter" press ia at this very momment about to (try) and talk to some (normally) chatty beauties and your unoffcial "minders" ...

to all: BTW i don't see the press being that gutter: :) this IS middle earth!

Val: could you post a link to the "game" in either letters of F or tales of V: or copy a brief description over?

...well the non nazgul characters grow too! :D

*joins in the ticking of CS*

what does that mean? I am not aware of that particular Phrase?

AHHH! tickling wes it? :D

*tickles CS too* : mmm i thought i saw her smile for a momment there: and such a great smile too! :)

really hopes CS will be cool: for one thing half the players will have to leave, including me if she forces the issue! you know how militant the brotherhood of butterflies are! :p

best all :)

Valandil

09-10-2005, 07:06 AM

...well the "gutter" press ia at this very momment about to (try) and talk to some (normally) chatty beauties and your unoffcial "minders" ...

Yes - I had suspected so.

In fact, I wondered if she might make rapid sketches... to take the place of photographs. :D I even thought about having her sketch Valandil conversing with Annawen at The Red Herring, but thought the garden area would be a little screened off - and she was clearly on the first floor, not third. (so I saved myself the trouble)

Yes - I believe the noble game of Rochdol is described in Firiel's Letter #4 - at the point where Arvedui and Firiel arrive in their new home of Fornost - though it is a girls' point of view. I'll post something to it later if nobody else has - gotta go now. :)

Earniel

09-10-2005, 08:40 AM

And as usual blow-ups occur when I'm asleep... :rolleyes:

I must say I am rather disappointed by your reactions. I was hoping we all would be mature enough to solve differences in opinion over plots peacefully without having to take sides or having to retort to comments like "now you've completely ruined it" and "I'm leaving if I do not get my way".

Characters belong to individuals but the game belongs to everybody playing it. If you're unhappy with the way Lief entered this game, say so without getting too defensive. It's too dumb to be leaving over something like this. We've barely started! Surely there will be more differences of opinion along the way. I don't see while we get to introduce new elements and Lief who joined later, on our own invitation, may not. True, some warning would have been nice. True, his new elements are a little too intrusive in the already existing plot-threads but there's in my opinion no need to respond so harshly.

Now I for one, am interested in the plots Lief comes up with because I have played with him in the past and am used to having to find things out in the game without being told in advance. Frodo didn't know what was going to happen when he agreed to take the Ring to Mordor either. So far I have not once been disappointed and I quite enjoy that form of playing too.

But that sort of RPG-ing usually takes a strong game master, such as Lief is used to playing. Since I monitor all games in this forum I am well aware that that is not the way most of you have been playing or prefer to play. And maybe that is indeed not the best way to play this particular game.

Still, I think it's commendable that Lief wants to try and pull all plots together since we were saying in this discussion thread earlier that our current plot could still use some more developping. But I think that maybe keeping the main plot 'public' is better for this particular game. Although I do think a little mystery here and there can only make this game more interesting.

Now this is a game we're all playing together and since we bugged Lief until he joined, I suggest we look together over what he has introduced so far and what of those elements we can keep. I don't think we can ask that he deletes everything. That would require RÃ*an to edit her posts too. It's a game of give and take. So please, do not assume too rigid stances here and please be prepared to work to a compromise.

Now personally I think the figure in the coach, with some modifications, can be kept. I do not think there should be another Nazgul. The Nine are pretty much established, even in another game, so I don't think the addition to a completely new nazgul is opportune. (Except for the Witch-King, since he has yet to enter the game, right? Who was playing him again?) However, we still haven't figured out what called all 9 nazguls seperately to Tharbad. It doesn't need to be a nazgul but it might very well be Lief's figure in the coach. Perhaps a thrid party that wishes to use the Nazgul's abilities to track down the one Ring and then take it for his own?

So can we please iron these plot-difficulties out together or not?

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 10:47 AM

Please, I would very much appreciate people bringing objections with my posts up to me and I'll explain and modify as they wish. I'm glad about those objections I've heard, because I certainly hate misunderstandings. Those I have heard, I can help to explain.
So the mystery is solved. The disgusting thing in a carriage was meant to be a NAZGUL. If it is your idea of them, we have nothing to do with you. I will not continue to participate, if your posts are not deleted entirely. That character ruins the game.

The figure in the coach is not a Nazgul! Neither is he a Balrog. He is evil enough that he knows how to imitate a Nazgul, though far from proficiently. That is why his Nazgul call was weak and pathetic. I in no way meant to imply that the other Nazgul are weak and pathetic. In fact, it's because they're not that he needs their help!

I can also adjust the post to make it so pathetic an imitation that people wake up laughing and thinking the Nazgul are totally clobbered. Would that work for people?
But that sort of RPG-ing usually takes a strong game master, such as Lief is used to playing. Since I monitor all games in this forum I am well aware that that is not the way most of you have been playing or prefer to play. And maybe that is indeed not the best way to play this particular game.
I can adjust, I think. I in no way want to stamp on individual thinking or subplots. In fact, I love it when those aspects of roleplaying are in the RPGs I do.

RÃan

09-10-2005, 11:12 AM

... Since I monitor all games in this forum I am well aware that that is not the way most of you have been playing or prefer to play. And maybe that is indeed not the best way to play this particular game.

Do you guys usually know the whole plot before you start? Or at least a rough outline?

CrazySquirrel

09-10-2005, 12:04 PM

Earniel, have you READ yesterday's posts? Do you KNOW what it was like? All of us, who were online, nearly got mad. PM's have flown in flocks.
Read the posts. We tried to be nice, we REALLY did. Then we decided it was too much for us. I became the spokesman, that's all.

To Lief Erikson:
Ahhh, so the bloated thing was not a nazgul. Be careful then, when you refer to "other nazgul", if you are NOT one of us.

About your character. Do you REALIZE, that the only responce the bloated thing will get from the ringwraiths in the present situation is an ugly end? We can come and kill you if you so wish. We can ignore you completely. But then Val's soldiers will shoot you and your orc and your mutant horses on sighting. Your character is short-lived anyway. Do you not see it?

Why won't you READ the thread at last and pick someone decent? Val's adviser, Earniel's sweetheart, a Governor of Tharbad, a city whore, a mad elf, a street cat, you name it?

I hate quarrels. I really do. And I don't want to quit. But I will, if yesterday's situation ever repeats itself.

We don't need a gamemaster here. I am used to be my own mistress, thank you. Especially we do not need a "gamemaster" who bangs in, asks in a hurry "what is the time and place?" and then "pulls our threads together".

The Nazgul are well established and taken care of. Soon we will be reunited, believe me. Three have met already, soon there will be more. All goes along the plan. We have agreed on it between ourselves, and gave enough hints to the "other side". Anyone who bothers to read the Discussion thread will know it.
AND reading BOTH threads before joining is a simple courtesy to the other players, IMHO. Do you agree with me?

RÃan

09-10-2005, 12:20 PM

I've read the entire discussion thread and the entire rpg thread now, but this one seems a little more complex because apparently it's a re-start of one that existed before.

Anyway, I liked everything about the mysterious character in the coach, except the orc driver - maybe you can make it a little toned-down, Lief, kind of like the Bill Ferny character or the squint-eyed Southerner in LOTR - characters that obviously have orc-blood in them?

RÃan

09-10-2005, 12:27 PM

EÃ¤rniel, be sure to read my post #54! :evil:

Earniel

09-10-2005, 12:32 PM

Yes CS, I have READ yesterday's posts. Yes, I noticed you all got mad, but I don't think it was necesary. I really do not see why you should have gotten so upset, I honestly DON'T. So no, I probably don't know what it's like.

Lief has admitted he should have read the threads before and clearly indicated that he would pull out if anyone would be leaving over his posts. He offered to fix the situation. He has been friendly about it. Frankly, what more do you want? You can at least show him the same curtesy.

I know you don't want any one else to infiltrate in your 'inner nazgul circle' but you can't expect Lief to have known that. You don't want any more nazgul or anything remotely resembling one, FINE, that TELL us. None of us are mind-readers, misunderstanding is bound to happen. Just say so and we look how we can change the situation accordingly.

I never said we needed a gamemaster! Not in this game. Nor did Lief said he would be. He just wanted to help. If it's not appreciated tell so NICELY, no need to bite his nose off over it. There are different ways of playing RPG's, Lief's just used to another way. But he said he will adapt.

Now Lief has admitted he made mistakes and is offering to find a way to make amends. So I think we can call off the blame-game. So can we all help to solve this problem constructively or is that too much to ask?

Earniel

09-10-2005, 12:42 PM

Do you guys usually know the whole plot before you start? Or at least a rough outline?
It depends. There are so many different ways. Sometimes the players are only given a basic outline, a vague discription or only a starting point with a game master leading and tweaking the game as it progresses. Some games are parodies of books so everybody knows the whole plot. Some make up as they go along, without any steering. In other games the progression of the plot is discussed democratically and decisions are made in group.

I've read the entire discussion thread and the entire rpg thread now, but this one seems a little more complex because apparently it's a re-start of one that existed before.
Not really a restart but it's a complicated history all right. I closed a thread about Nazgul that didn't really fit in anywhere and had ended up in the RPG-forum. As the mod team was looking into it where we could allow such a thread, another identical thread was started in the RPG-forum. We managed to convert both threads to RPG-threads, the second thread became the discussion-thread and I re-opened and cleaned out the first thread to serve as game thread. The names got changed accordingly and voila.

EÃ¤rniel, be sure to read my post #54! :evil:
Grrrrr...

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 01:30 PM

How about this - all of us who are on board and actively working a new character, put some kind of explanatory biography profile here so we can all very plainly see who's who and what's what?

A Biography Profile

Viniglaen, Nazgul Ringwraith #9

Born and raised in Andulie, Numenor, of unknown lineage & family.

The youngest of the Nine, became a wraith after stealing a ring from a young Numenorian king's safe and then using the ring herself.

Physically: About 5'3", she is by far the tiniest in stature of all the ringwraiths, but what she lacks in height she makes up for in depth of character and passionate intensity. Petite, tomboyish, unusually beautiful yet surprisingly strong, she sports short, sexily tousled hair the rich dark colour of walnut wood, and fiercely brilliant large eyes the colour of a twilight sky peek out from under her wavy, silky bangs. Very white skin; small pink bow-shaped lips.

Emotionally, Intellectually: Moody as all get out, possessing a temper that can match even the Witch King's himself - she is prone to unexpected violent mood swings (rather like someone I know :rolleyes: ), but she is highly loyal and enjoys defending the weak from the strong,. In that vein, as much as she steals, she gives away - to her friends and Nazgul "family," with the exception of course being the Ruling Ring and/or a Silmaril, both of which she has high hopes of someday finding.

Skills: Master Thief and Catburglar of all Middle-Earth, her thievery skills are absolutely legendary and unsurpassed, yet her true identity is rarely revealed in the event of an historical heist ever happening. There's a connexion between what she does and the stuff that was in the Barrow Downs, for instance. ;) Viniglaen is impossible to deceive - she's "up on game," I guess you could say. She's extremely gifted , but unfortunately missed out on a classic Numenorian high education, as she was barely 22 years old at the time she became a Nazgul. She has put the ages of time to good use, however, educating herself the best she could by reading a lot and paying close attention to her learned fellow Nazgul.

Motivation: To find the Ruling Ring, and to find a Silmaril. What she intends to do with the Ruling Ring should she ever find it, remains to be told.

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 01:41 PM

Ahhh, so the bloated thing was not a nazgul. Be careful then, when you refer to "other nazgul", if you are NOT one of us.
Good point.
About your character. Do you REALIZE, that the only responce the bloated thing will get from the ringwraiths in the present situation is an ugly end? We can come and kill you if you so wish. We can ignore you completely.
Yes, you have the complete freedom to do either of those things. I expect I would use my enormous horses to escape from you if you tried to kill me, but on the other hand, what with all this fighting, I might just let you have it your own way.

You can ignore me or try to kill me; that's of course your privilege. Or you can at least hear my character out and then ignore or kill him. That might be more intelligent of the Nazgul than a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy. Plus it would be nicer to me :). And you still could keep your right to kill me afterward, of course.
But then Val's soldiers will shoot you and your orc and your mutant horses on sighting. Your character is short-lived anyway. Do you not see it?
Not really (taps around on the sidewalk with his stick for a moment, and adjusts his sunglasses). It might happen that way . . . or it might not. Val can make his own decisions regarding killing me. I've dressed up my orc so nicely though, who would kill such a plainly decent chap? ;)
Why won't you READ the thread at last and pick someone decent? Val's adviser, Earniel's sweetheart, a Governor of Tharbad, a city whore, a mad elf, a street cat, you name it?
Thanks for the ideas, but I really like my current choice of character. You didn't pick someone decent, I might add ;). You chose a Nazgul, as have several other players here. I just chose some other ugly bad guy that isn't a Nazgul.
I hate quarrels. I really do. And I don't want to quit. But I will, if yesterday's situation ever repeats itself.
I'll beat you to it, if I can ;). The crazy thing is that I think the whole argument is over a misunderstanding. I really feel very misunderstood, at the moment, and I don't like that. I'm just shaking my head, saying, "this is such a stupid argument," because I never intended any of the perceived insults, attacks and unkindness as such. I just want to get along and have fun playing with you all :). You do exactly what you want with your character, and I will continue to play mine in my own fashion, though perfectly ready to withdraw anything I post if it offends anyone here.
We don't need a gamemaster here. I am used to be my own mistress, thank you. Especially we do not need a "gamemaster" who bangs in, asks in a hurry "what is the time and place?" and then "pulls our threads together".
I have no desire to take away any of your freedom at all, and I am not trying to do that. What I'm trying to do with my blob of a character is construct a new plot idea that people can join or reject as they choose.
The Nazgul are well established and taken care of. Soon we will be reunited, believe me. Three have met already, soon there will be more. All goes along the plan.
Sounds good :). Continue to enjoy your plan.
AND reading BOTH threads before joining is a simple courtesy to the other players, IMHO. Do you agree with me?
I'm afraid that on this point, I don't really agree. The discussion thread is enormous, and I am strapped for time. Reading the whole RPG is one thing, as it has just started and isn't enormously long yet, but the discussion thread is something else again. In all the . . . at least five RPGs I've done, I never have required that anyone joining in read the whole discussion thread first.

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 01:43 PM

CrazySquirrel

09-10-2005, 01:57 PM

Yes CS, I have READ yesterday's posts. Yes, I noticed you all got mad, but I don't think it was necesary. I really do not see why you should have gotten so upset, I honestly DON'T. So no, I probably don't know what it's like.
No you don't, because you don't care about us, nazgul:) Imagine a new player pops up - a bloated, sweating, ugly hug -and declares she is Lady Galadriel herself, came to inspect your kingdom. I bet you will get mad. As for us, we won't be too upset. All is relative, you know.:p

Lief has admitted he should have read the threads before and clearly indicated that he would pull out if anyone would be leaving over his posts. He offered to fix the situation. He has been friendly about it. Frankly, what more do you want? You can at least show him the same curtesy.
He did so this night, after my declaration. And I am not yet sure he has read the threads by now. I am still here, so I an showing some courtesy. I offered him to pick another character and continue. I clearly explained what we will do with one who gives a "weak nazgul cry" near the place where we are incognito. I also explained what Arnor soldiers will do to him. Honestly, Earniel, could you give ONE reason why Arnor guys won't be shooting immediately?

I know you don't want any one else to infiltrate in your 'inner nazgul circle' but you can't expect Lief to have known that. You don't want any more nazgul or anything remotely resembling one, FINE, that TELL us. None of us are mind-readers, misunderstanding is bound to happen. Just say so and we look how we can change the situation accordingly.
Once we greeted Lief in the Discussion thread I asked him immediately: are you going to become a nazgul?" (#238). He replied "No, I have other plans" ( #239). If he would have said YES, I would have given him some directions, proposed "vacant" characters and so on. But he said "No". Fine with me. But then this "Thing" gives "a nazgul cry" and thinks it will summon us. What are we supposed to think?

I never said we needed a gamemaster! Not in this game. Nor did Lief said he would be. Please reread #268. "I will bring purpose and direction in your game." :mad: See my reply #274

CrazySquirrel

09-10-2005, 02:17 PM

Ok, Lief, I have read your message. Well, let us hope it was a misunderstanding. If so, I apologize.
Let us see what happens next.

Lotesse, thanks for the Bio, but there has never been any problem with Vivvie.
Thank you and Gordis for support! What do you feel now? Should we resume posting?

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 02:28 PM

O.K.! I have some new ideas for Viv and those two Marty&Ray; they seem fun to her - an interesting diversion for her, and I think she'd like to "befriend" them, see what makes them tick...

CrazySquirrel

09-10-2005, 02:44 PM

To VIV.

Sure, I look forward to it. But first let's get rid of the Widow. I am not eager to give an interview. Are you? Should we throw her out bodily or attempt somthing more sophisticated, like poisoning?
I feel drained right now, please, post.

And Viv, you should explain your presence in Lil's house somehow, to Ray and Marty. Are you a friend of Lil? or a sweetheart of Five? or Lil's and Five's dunadan cousin- daughter of their late father's brother? (I mean cover story, not the real one)

Where is our Doc, GW? Could you take Five over, perhaps?

and TD?
TD, I believe, Khamul may appear in Lilly's "haunted house in Orrodel" in the late morning. That will be a surprise for Lilly and Five to learn they have an older brother, Professor of oriental languages!

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 02:51 PM

HAH! That is SO ironic; great minds really DO think alike - while you were writing the above post, I was composing a story entry - read it! I just posted it! Yes, Viv got rid of the nosy reporter !

And another thing - you're not gonna believe htis but - YES, just like you suggested I thought of the same thing - Viniglaen's posing as Pen & Lilly's cousin!! Ah, great minds DO think alike ;) :)

Earniel

09-10-2005, 02:58 PM

No you don't, because you don't care about us, nazgul:) Imagine a new player pops up - a bloated, sweating, ugly hug -and declares she is Lady Galadriel herself, came to inspect your kingdom. I bet you will get mad. As for us, we won't be too upset. All is relative, you know.:p
Never being part of the nazgul-group, I obviously don't give it the same kind of importance as you do but that doesn't mean I don't care at all about your nazgul-characters. :)

As for the possibility of a bloated, impossible Galadriel, I'd raise an eyebrow at first but then I might play along. Or play contrary :evil: and say something like:"I know Galadriel and you, madam, look nothing like her" and shut my gate in her face. It might be interesting to see where it leads. Or I might decide to postpone writing in the game-thread and ask the other player for a clarification in the discussion-thread. And if that explanation isn't enough I'd try to offer an alternative that would be acceptable for me. Difficult to say how I'd react, though quite possibly I'd be very confused :p instead of mad.

Honestly, Earniel, could you give ONE reason why Arnor guys won't be shooting immediately?
To be honest, I didn't think that far. It was after mid-night here when I read it and I didn't stay up that much longer. As far as I was concerned the character in the coach was human, albeit rather decadent and gross. No reason to shoot someone because he doesn't look very attractive. And as far as I read he did not enter the city so he would not necesarily have run into the city guard. And if he did, those might have been bribed to let him pass. There are a reasonable number of possibilities. The orc in front of the coach could pose a problem, though.

I see the rest of the situation appears to be resolved. :) Good.

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 03:14 PM

Hi, Rian! I noticed you're here this morinig! Say, I loved what you posted - if you're up to it, now would be a nicely opportune time for your Rian to come 'round the house in response to the want-ad. I know Lilly's gritting her teeth in annoyance that she still doesn't have a "Major-Domo" (Houeshold Cheif)...

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 03:30 PM

To be honest, I didn't think that far. It was after mid-night here when I read it and I didn't stay up that much longer. As far as I was concerned the character in the coach was human, albeit rather decadent and gross. No reason to shoot someone because he doesn't look very attractive. And as far as I read he did not enter the city so he would not necesarily have run into the city guard. And if he did, those might have been bribed to let him pass. There are a reasonable number of possibilities. The orc in front of the coach could pose a problem, though.
They aren't attempting any violence. I hadn't even considered whether or not they have any weapons. If they do, they're probably just chemical solutions, and thus not easily recognizable as dangerous. They definitely aren't attacking.

I expect that this very strange coach will be stopped by the guards if it attempts to enter the city, but for it to be slaughtered immediately . . . I don't know.

As regards the Nazgul reaction, I personally don't think it would be very intelligent of them to just attack without any knowledge of what my character had to say to them. They might be turning down the offer of a lifetime (or deathtime, or anywhere in between ;)). In view of that, and the possibilities he has before him of escaping, my character is willing to take his chances.
Once we greeted Lief in the Discussion thread I asked him immediately: are you going to become a nazgul?" (#238). He replied "No, I have other plans" ( #239). If he would have said YES, I would have given him some directions, proposed "vacant" characters and so on. But he said "No". Fine with me. But then this "Thing" gives "a nazgul cry" and thinks it will summon us. What are we supposed to think?
You might just ask me, "I thought you weren't going to play a Nazgul?"
Please reread #268. "I will bring purpose and direction in your game." :mad:
Please reread the entirety of that post, not just a small and alterred fragment of a sentence :(.

What I said there was another way of saying what I had said a moment earlier, "What I'm trying to do at this moment in the RPG is bind everything together. Ring, Nazgul, Balrog, ecology and all. It's all one plot, not multiple separate plots." As EÃ¤rniel said, I was trying to help, though as I said in that same post, I was ready to withdraw any such "help" that was unwanted.

I also said in the very same post was that I had no desire at all (and I underlined it there too) to take any freedom from anyone, and I've repeated that in following posts.

Does that sound much like a tyrannical gamemaster?

Don't bother with answering that. It's rhetorical. Let's have some fun :).

Does anyone have a problem with my doing as I suggested earlier I might? Posting a weak Nazgul scream that sounds little like a Nazgul, isn't at all worrisome, and sets the townsfolk laughing?

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 03:33 PM

Lief, this is not a debate thread or an argument thread, like all those Theology threads over in General Messages. This is an RPG. Not an on-going, relentless, on and on and on and on, and on and on and on and on and on and on fight/defensive debate/explanation/blah blah blah blah blah, yada yada yada. Can you dig it?

The last sane person

09-10-2005, 04:00 PM

I can dig that well enough, now, seeing as we are *continuing on* lets drop it please? Wow, this thread...gone for a night and you lot post like tommorow aint commin!

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 04:03 PM

Hmm. As I am not really interested in being slaughtered by ferocious Nazgul, I'll adjust my plan a bit. Instead, I'll just head straight for Tharbad :). The elves will probably be more merciful, especially in view of my noble aims.

Telcontar_Dunedain

09-10-2005, 04:10 PM

I don't particularly want to get involved in this but I do just want to say thing about the weak NazgÃ»l cry. As far as I can tell (I may be wrong) but it hasn't happened yet, but IMO it would be a good idea for it not to happen. For now NazgÃ»l presence in the city is undetected and should stay that way until the time is right. I think that this RPG is building up to the moment when the NazgÃ»l are forcifully removed (I may again be wrong) and to have the fact that NazgÃ»l are in the City known so early on would not be that helpful. I am in full support of you character Lief, and would like to find out more about it, but please leave out any NazgÃ»l crys unless you have some great plan for it, if so please post it here first.

CS I'll post in a minuteand have Galadannun coming and revealing himself to the other three NazgÃ»l as KhamÃ»l. Here is a v. short bio for him.

Born in RhÃ»n, is father was a Numenorean killed in the Last Alliance fighting for Anarion and his mother is an Easterling. Named Galadannun, Light of the West, by his mother in rememberance of his father but was afterwards named KhamÃ»l, Shadow of the East, by Sauron when rendered into his services.

Grey_Wolf

09-10-2005, 04:27 PM

Could someone please give me some clues as to what to write? I know started the thread but extensive authoring has never been my strong suit. Sorry.

Telcontar_Dunedain

09-10-2005, 04:34 PM

You are Penny brother of KhamÃ»l (Galadannun) and Lily. There is an opening for you to post now in the RPG. You've just seen your big brother again! ;)

The last sane person

09-10-2005, 04:46 PM

Drat it all, I had a nice post, and was about to hit the post button, but went to get my laundry adn my bratty little cousin stole the computer, some one posted ahead of me....perhaps i can adjust it? *fizzle*

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 04:52 PM

No, no, I think it's perfectly fine as it is! There's a lot of important people in the living room of the mansion all of a sudden, so there's bound to be a little bit of over-speak. :)

Oh- BTW, Viv wouldn't blush for real, unless it was a blush from an oncoming rush of anger, but she's not mad at the boys, she rather likes them, so - her blush was just a coy little trick! ;)

The last sane person

09-10-2005, 05:04 PM

I garnered as much, she isnt the type to be even the slightest bit pinky. I remember reading somewhere that Ray and Marty were kind of...not so bright... I am sorry if I am not playing them that way. I just need more practice playing dumb!

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 05:11 PM

EXCellent last story-post, Shah! You're really good at this; I am so happy you're in it!

Oh - btw, Rian? In Beverly Hills, the term they use for the Chief Household Manager is Major Domo - Aaron Spelling has a Major Domo, for instance. Just in case you were unsure. It's a fairly prestigious position to hold!

The last sane person

09-10-2005, 05:12 PM

Well, I am trying....eeeks.

Oh? how did they come up with that name though? My latin is rust---OH! got it, never mind....heheh...

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 05:31 PM

4 Rian and everyone else's info:

maÂ·jor-doÂ·mo [ mÃ*yjər dṓmō ] (plural maÂ·jor-doÂ·mos)

noun

Definitions:

1. household manager: the chief servant in a large household, especially a royal or noble household, responsible for managing domestic affairs

2. personal manager: somebody responsible for managing affairs and making arrangements for somebody else

[Late 16th century. Via French, Italian, Spanish < medieval Latin major domus "chief of the house" < Latin magnus "great" + domus "house"]

The last sane person

09-10-2005, 05:32 PM

Yep! My mind wheels just needed a second to warm up. Wow, she gets a posh position for just showing up. Lucky her!

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 06:01 PM

That was perfect, CS! You brought the reality of the Nazguls and the situation right 'round; ideal.

Now we wait for Rian to get hired, and Viv's gonna have to get ready for school, plus she's going out later on to do some private re-con of her own around town and campus. She LOVES to sneak around, and very little escapes her attention, VERY little. She sees something she doesn't care for, it's goin' DOWN! There's a liitle mystery 4 ya ;) .

RÃan

09-10-2005, 06:12 PM

Oh - btw, Rian? In Beverly Hills, the term they use for the Chief Household Manager is Major Domo - Aaron Spelling has a Major Domo, for instance. Just in case you were unsure. It's a fairly prestigious position to hold!Thanks for the info, but will the Middle Earth denizens want to copy Beverly Hills?

OTOH, I guess it's the other way around, since we're in a time before Beverly Hills was even around!

And will Lilly, that canny redhead, be willing to hire a young lady for that position that has a rather lightweight resume? Or does she see certain ... advantages ... in having someone around who wouldn't recognize a less-than-kosher household setup?

Well, RÃ*an can but try ...

CrazySquirrel

09-10-2005, 06:16 PM

My compliments, Shah!
It is really a pleasure reading your posts!

Lotesse and TD - good posts, as usual. I hope GW appears soon. I feel Five gets tired to be manipulated by Lilly.
GW you never told us, do you want to look as Omar Sharif?

Re my last post. I am unsure if I develop Khamul's character in a right direction.
TD, would you lie on Lilly's bed with your boots on, or wouldn't you? :confused:
I am willing to edit, as usual :)

Gordis

09-10-2005, 07:07 PM

Hi, all.
I see the storm has abated. Not that I am happy with the solution, but peace is better then war.
I loved your last posts, Shah, CS, Lotesse and TD. Hope Rian will come soon.

And will Lilly, that canny redhead, be willing to hire a young lady for that position that has a rather lightweight resume? Or does she see certain ... advantages ... in having someone around who wouldn't recognize a less-than-kosher household setup?
I think so. That is really going to be a haunted house, a REGULAR haunted house... I think Lil would have preferred a 100% human, but well, she is in a hurry. Khamul ordered her to set the household right, and Khamul, our Second to the Chief, doesn't repeat his orders twice. :evil:
I trust you, CS, to give Rian really wierd household instructions :evil: .

Now we wait for Rian to get hired, and Viv's gonna have to get ready for school, plus she's going out later on to do some private re-con of her own around town and campus. She LOVES to sneak around, and very little escapes her attention, VERY little. She sees something she doesn't care for, it's goin' DOWN! There's a liitle mystery 4 ya
Lotesse, please, could you wait with this shedule for Viv till Sunday (in the RPG) and most likely till Monday in RL? I sort of planned to present you all to the Arch-Chancellor on Saturday (i.e. tomorrow in RL), before Val gets his reception. If you agree, I will post a lead.

Now a nagging comment:
Here is a v. short bio for him.

Born in RhÃ»n, is father was a Numenorean killed in the Last Alliance fighting for Anarion and his mother is an Easterling. Named Galadannun, Light of the West, by his mother in rememberance of his father but was afterwards named KhamÃ»l, Shadow of the East, by Sauron when rendered into his services.

Please, realize, TD, that all this story is a fake story. Khamul has already been a nazgul for about 1500 years by the time of our story. So it is "before" not "afterwards". What was he as a living man, back in the Second Age? Nobody knows. But I imagine him a ruler of Khand, sort of Timur or Chingiz-Khan of the East.

By the way, here is a nice picture of Chingiz-Khan:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Chingiz-Khan&spell=1

CS, I liked the second picture of Gor better. BB finds the picture not enough sexy; but Gor is not overmuch sexy, not in a way of Lily, that is. She is quiet and cold, and sophisticated - a REFINED beauty.

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 07:12 PM

Lotesse, please, could you wait with this shedule for Viv till Sunday (in the RPG) and most likely till Monday in RL? I sort of planned to present you all to the Arch-Chancellor on Saturday (i.e. tomorrow in RL), before Val gets his reception. If you agree, I will post a lead.

Absolutely, no problem! Just wanted to throw that out there, in case any "blobs" get any fancy ideas... ;)

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 07:24 PM

Here's another 2 Viv pics:

http://www.jnautographs.com/captures3/LaurenBacall1906.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wolfsden3.homestead.com/files/StarsB/laurenbacall.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wolfsden3.homestead.com/laurenbacall.html&h=505&w=375&sz=33&tbnid=qqsSu3AB6-cJ:&tbnh=128&tbnw=95&hl=en&start=58&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlauren%2BBacall%26start%3D40%26svnum% 3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/personalidades/atores/lauren-bacall/lauren-bacall01.jpg

I wish i knew how to use Adobe photoshop so I could do the eyes and darken & shorten the hair.

Grey Wolf, TD, are you guys gonna show us your character faces? I still LOVE the young Omar Sharif idea, except w/out that moustache. Anyway, I am an Omar Sharif fan, so...

CrazySquirrel

09-10-2005, 07:30 PM

Great, Gordie, I am looking forward to your post and the meeting with the Arch-Chancellor. My heart beats faster :) ...

Lotesse, the first picture is just perfect. I can do whatever you like in Photoshop with it, only the picture allowed as an attachment here is soo small, the color of your eyes will be lost anyway...

I go hire Rian...
Great post, Rian, I loved it. :)

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 07:52 PM

Yes, thanx Rian! The game's gettin' better & better...

CS - yeah, you're right, it'll be difficult to see the colour. Well - Viv's eyes are even a bit bigger than Lauren Bacall's, anyway, but the pics I put up thus far I think are enough for everyone to get the idea of how she appears, by now.

Gordis - I can't wait, either! Really looking forward 2 this! can'waitcan'twait...

RÃan

09-10-2005, 08:14 PM

thanks, guys (did you like the adhesive part? :D )

*goes to read the thread*

OK, will get a response up hopefully before the weekend's over - gtg now. I'll ponder my backstory in the meantime. I've already run a few ideas by EÃ¤rniel and she thought they were OK, so I'll work on a bio and run it by you guys. It involves some, er, slight additions to the Tolkien canon, but I think it's not incompatible with it.

Lotesse

09-10-2005, 08:21 PM

Hey you guys! I wanted some Tharbad pics, so I found these for us all to see:

http://couroberon.free.fr/Images/Galerie%20Vincent/tharbad.jpg

http://asp.merp.com/images/tharbad_map.jpg

http://fremen.it/eriador/immagini/sc02Tharbad.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/tharbad_ras.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/specialtynumenor.html&h=166&w=201&sz=21&tbnid=nzYw2RR8bXAJ:&tbnh=81&tbnw=99&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtharbad%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3 D%26sa%3DG

CS - Cool post - Man, I love Lilly; she really doesn't f*** around! A chilling Nazgul par exemplar...

Lief Erikson

09-10-2005, 09:43 PM

Very nice pictures. May I ask where you found #1?

Can anyone give me even a very general population number for Tharbad? It would be much appreciated.

EDIT: Ah, Valandil, you're online :). The very man. There's a political issue that needs resolution, and also you're about to receive word of a newcomer at the gate seeking your private ear.

RÃan

09-11-2005, 02:12 AM

OK, fellow rpg-ers, I need to run something by you guys before I can answer Lilly's penetrating question to rpg-RÃ*an. It was a very good question, and I have to complete most of my backstory to answer it, so here are my two thoughts:

I just adore Gondolin, and the Fall of Gondolin is one of my favorite stories (and what made me fall in love with Tuor! which was the beginning of many girlfights with EÃ¤rniel over him ;) )

(yes, RÃ*an is Tuor's mommy, but that's not why I chose the name for my Entmoot name! I chose RÃ*an because I always liked the way it sounded and looked, and it was short enough so that people didn't need to abbreviate it. THEN about a year later, I think, I read FoG (Fall of Gondolin) and just fell in love with Tuor, that stud-muffin! What a guy! Oh, sorry, I digress...)

ANYWAY - so I always wanted a character from Gondolin.

And when I hit 500 posts (lo these many moons ago :o ) I chose "Halfelven" as my user title because I love Tolkien's works so much, and especially the elven legendarium, that sometimes I feel part elven. (don't call the men with white coats; I know I'm not REALLY part elven :) ) Then later I changed it to "Halfelven Queen of Rabbit Trails" because I love following discussions down various rabbit trails here!

SO, for this rpg, I thought I'd keep the halfelven idea, and keep the name RÃ*an, and make her another person - NOT the Tuor's mom RÃ*an.

*swats EÃ¤rniel away from Tuor* ;)

So here's my two options for her background:

Option 1 - This is the one I like, but it involves an additional child for Tuor and Idril. As I imagine many of you know, the RÃ*an in the book (Tuor's mum) died of grief when Tuor was just a wee laddie, because of her husband dying in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad :( . She left Tuor to be fostered by the Grey-elves of Mithrim, and went to the Haudh-en-Ndengin and died of grief. So what I was thinking of was that before EÃ¤rendil was born, a little girl was born to Tuor and Idril. Tuor named her RÃ*an, after his mother, and told her when she was old enough to understand that his mother's life was cut short by the terrible grief of the Arnoediad, and he vowed to name his first daughter after his mother and pray to Eru that she would have a happier life than his mother, and conquer her difficulties, and somehow hurt evil as it had hurt his mother. The age would work out, because EÃ¤rendil was 7 at the FoG, so RÃ*an would be old enough to remember the place.

(con't)

RÃan

09-11-2005, 02:23 AM

That, of course, would make RÃ*an incredibly old, and it would make her "royal" in a sense (the granddaughter of Turgon, king of Gondolin). Neither of these things matter to me - I can take them or leave them - but this is the option I think I prefer if you guys can swallow the "older sister of EÃ¤rendil" idea. If not, I can TOTALLY understand!

So basically RÃ*an has chosen to be a wanderer, to kind of search the world over looking for some of her friends (she's heard rumors from other wanderers). She stayed with her people for many years, helping those who were hurt and trying to rebuilt their little community and remember their culture, but after a long while, decided that she couldn't find peace there and started her wanderings. Also, she wanted to investigate her human side more - there was just something among the elves that was lacking...

Option 2 - She's simply a RÃ*an from Gondolin - no connection to Tuor (we can "forget" that Tuor's mum was named RÃ*an). This still makes her incredibly old, but not "royal" (which I don't care either way about), and does NOT add a sibling for EÃ¤rendil, but DOES add another elf-human marriage, which Tolkien didn't seem to like a whole lot of. This would make things easier in a lot of ways, tho - the whole Tuor/Idril thing might be hard to juggle. I might prefer this option, after all! She would just be a "commoner", but from the wonderful city of Gondolin. And the rest would be the same - one of the refugees; stayed to help for many years; couldn't find peace; decided to wander and investigate more about humans, etc.

SO - what do you guys think? Again, I'm a real rookie at this, and appreciate suggestions. Also, I totally would honor if any of you just cringe at the thought of EÃ¤rendil having an older sister! and would go to option 2 without a murmur.

Lotesse

09-11-2005, 02:32 AM

I like Option #2, Rian. Very nice explanations & biographical history, BTW; I can tell you've put a great deal of careful thought into it and it shows a lot of class, very nice. Thank you 4 that! Yeah, I like #2 better for all the reasons you put and then some. You DO appear young, though, correct? I'm up way past my bed-time and am kinda foggy in the brain, but I'm just imagining Rian as a young half-elven maiden-type when she comes to our Nazgul home. Are you still gonna look the same? Can you show us a pic, and stuff like that? :)

Lief Erikson

09-11-2005, 02:34 AM

It'll be very interesting for you, playing such an old character. I never worked up the nerve to try that- plus I love humans. RÃ*an will have a very interesting perspective on life. :cool: Galadriel also was supposed to be extremely old, though of course at the same time young. It will be an interesting challenge for you to play such a character. Good luck!

I personally would be fine with your taking either option.

Grey_Wolf

09-11-2005, 02:40 AM

Lotesse and TD - good posts, as usual. I hope GW appears soon. I feel Five gets tired to be manipulated by Lilly.
GW you never told us, do you want to look as Omar Sharif?

:)

Omar will do nicely. :)

RÃan

09-11-2005, 02:47 AM

You DO appear young, though, correct? Absolutely! As far as I know, a 300-year-old elven maiden looks the same as a 3000-year-old-plus elven maiden.

Whew, a pic? I don't know where to look, but I'll sleep on it - bed time for me, too!

So far, a "don't care" and an option 2 preference... I"m leaning towards option 2 myself, altho I really wanted to throw in a reference to great-great-great (is that enough back?) uncle FÃ«anor's feisty temper, which occasionally pops out and causes trouble ...

Grey_Wolf

09-11-2005, 02:49 AM

hope my recent post was ok. :)

RÃan

09-11-2005, 02:52 AM

(here's from FOTR - a description of Galadriel, who is incredibly old!)

from FOTR
...but no sign of age was upon them, unless it were in the depths of their eyes; for these were keen as lances in the starlight, and yet profound, the wells of deep memory.

and RÃ*an wouldn't be as old as Galadriel.

RÃan

09-11-2005, 02:56 AM

Just found a really cool pic of Luthien and Huan-

here (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/obrazki/Luthien%26Huan.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tolkien.com.pl/kasiopea/ang/strony/Luthien%26Huan.htm&h=659&w=452&sz=67&tbnid=oXzErULgjOUJ:&tbnh=136&tbnw=93&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtolkien%2Bluthien%2Bhuan%26svnum%3D10 %26hl%3Den%26lr%3D[/url)

I wouldn't mind looking like that!

(the GIRL, silly, not the DOG!)

RÃan

09-11-2005, 03:03 AM

(can't get it working - well, follow the link, then scroll down to the thumbnail of Luthien and Huan, then click it)

edit - got it working!

CrazySquirrel

09-11-2005, 03:09 AM

Hi, Rian,
May I suggest something?

I think the first story is not good just because of the reasons you listed yourself. Undoubtedly, an older sister of Earendil would be not only royal, she would be almost DIVINE. (A sister of the star!) Such a Lady would be received with open arms in Rivendell or in Belfalas, where Galadriel dwells, or in ANY kingdoms of Numenorean men. She would wear jewels and give orders. She would be almost worshipped. Just imagine Val's meeting with Earendil's sister! He will fall to his knees and kiss your hand, I bet. IF a Lady like that went missing, all the relatives in Rivendell would be seeking for her far and wide.

Rian of this RPG looks for a position to earn a little money, even if it means going into probable peril. It just doesn't fit.

And your crash on Tuor doesn't sound like filial love at all. ;)

Your second story involves another man-elf marriage and makes you again highly unusual and easily traceable. And your connection to Tuor is lost, and that's a pity.

So my suggestion (and it is for that RPG only) is like that:

You are not half-elven, but a 100% Elf, born in Gondolin (not in Aman). That makes you not unusual. The young she-elf loved Tuor, but he has fallen in love with Idril. So you pine for him all your life. That will give you plenty of opportunity to express your feelings, in dreams etc.

The rest of your story is OK, you wandered, healed people etc. And, pining for Tuor, you liked to dwell in human settlements, as the Numenorean men reminded you of him...But living among Men involves earning money in some way. Hence your responce to the AD.

About your name. All elves have at least two names. Galadriel had at least three. (+Artanis and an another one, I forgot it). So you could have easily taken the name of Tuor's mother to use among humans. After all, he used to speak a lot about his mom, didn't he?

Of course, it involves editing slightly your previous posts. But you really care about men, so you are in a way in both worlds still.

All is up to you, Rian. I will accept any of the stories you chose without objecting. I hope you will not mind my advice. The decision is yours.
CS

CrazySquirrel

09-11-2005, 03:30 AM

Oh, GW! :) You are with us again! We are happy, Lilly and I :)
Sure your post was OK, what can there be wrong in having a drink at noon?

You may also tell what you think about Rian's appearence. She is a looker, and I bet you have already wandered invisible into the sitting-room to have a look at her, as Vivvi also did, I believe. Therefore I mentioned "invisible eyes following her every move".
We can turn fully visible or fully invisible, including clothes we wear, as we have our Rings. But we don't reflect in mirrors...
So, did you like the new applicant for the housekeeper position?

Re:Omar Sharif - do you like him with or without mustache?

Earniel

09-11-2005, 06:05 AM

Well RÃ*an, both options are good enough for me. I have no objections to option 1 because, since the Elves have no kingdoms after the Last Alliance, royalty is of little consequence. After the death of Gig-galad the Elves have no kings to rule their realms. Instead they have lords and ladies, who are often of a royal line, but don't assume the title of king.

Elrond is a prime example: son of EÃ¤rendil, the great-grandson of Turgon of Gondolin. After Gil-galad died he would have been rightfully King. He didn't take that role but made his own abode in Rivendell where he ruled, but not as king. Not even Galadriel, the oldest and most powerful noldo, assumed the title of Queen.

So I don't think RÃ*an's royal inheritage wouldn't be a big issue. She wouldn't be worshipped, since that's not what Elves do, but she would indeed be welcome with open arms everywhere should her lineage be known. But if she desires to wander instead of settle down and start a realm of her own, she won't be leading or ordering people around. I also doubt the Elves would forbid her to wander alone in the wild if that were her choice.

Of course, option 2 is also good. And if you still want to throw in the occasional reference to great-great-ect-uncle FÃ«anor, maybe you can make a little family connection to him if you're dropping your relationship to Tuor. Maybe by being a relative through Nerdanel?

So hey, it's all your choice. :)

Telcontar_Dunedain

09-11-2005, 07:31 AM

Cs, you posted a picture that I accepted as KhamÃ»l. Here it is again.

KhamÃ»l / Galadannun (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=966)

Lotesse

09-11-2005, 12:40 PM

I like this Khamul/Galadannun, TD. :)

RÃan

09-11-2005, 12:42 PM

Some great ideas for me to ponder! Thanks for the input, I'll decide shortly and let you know.

Lotesse

09-11-2005, 12:55 PM

Rian, if you're somehow related to Feanor, and Viniglaen finds out, she'll develop an INTENSE interest in you! She'll want to pick your brain endlessly - no, not LITerally, silly goose! ;) See, one thing I forgot to mention here - Viv's always been completely, dangerously obsessed with Feanor, and even thinks someday she might be able to find a silmaril :rolleyes: . Which is unrealistic, I'm sure, but you can't knock her for at least having an extra dream besides just the Ruling Ring! :D

Gordis

09-11-2005, 02:17 PM

, since the Elves have no kingdoms after the Last Alliance, royalty is of little consequence. After the death of Gig-galad the Elves have no kings to rule their realms. Instead they have lords and ladies, who are often of a royal line, but don't assume the title of king.
Perhaps it is not a matter for discussion in an RPG thread, but that needs stretching the facts quite a bit to say that royalty is of little consequence to Elves.
At the time of our story, there were two elven kingdoms: Greenwood the Great with King Thranduil and Lorien with King Amroth. True, nobody clamed to be High King of Noldor anymore, but Elrond was a ruler of Rivendell and its king, in all, but the name. Galadriel was not called Queen, that is right, but wasn't she used to ordering people around all her life because of her lineage?

Valandil

09-11-2005, 07:46 PM

OK - here's the link. This is in the middle of a very, VERY long letter (Letter #4 in the 12 letter series by Firiel of Gondor) - part of which features a description of the game:

Numenorean-Rules Football (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=378741#post378741)

So you see... games like this have ALWAYS been around to torment the females of the species in the autumn. :p

Lotesse

09-11-2005, 10:11 PM

Thanx 4 that link, Valandil!

and Gordis - *puts fingertips together evilly, a la Montgomery Burns, squints* - exxxxx-cccellent!

RÃan

09-12-2005, 12:16 AM

I've read all comments (thanks for the input!) and here's my decision - I'm going with option 2, because I think the adding of a sister, plus having a lot of published things to have to always keep in mind about relatives if I chose option 1, woudl just be too much to manage.

I understand the suggestion to drop the half-elf thing, but that's one thing I do NOT want to drop at all for several reasons, one being my husband :) He's what's known as a TCK ("third culture kid"), which is when the kid grows up in a culture other than that of his/her parents, such as missionary kids, diplomat kids, many military kids, overseas business kids, etc. It's a rather unique sub-culture, with many shared characteristics, and I want to have RÃ*an deal with that. And I think adding another elf-human marriage is not out-of-character with JRRT, because there's a few other of them hinted at on occasion, besides of course the famous ones. The half-elven seem to pass as full-elven, anyway, with no problem, so no one will have to know unless she tells them (except Val seems to know somehow - I might ask him to edit out that reference).

(besides, I'm scared of Viv picking my brain! ;) j/k )
SO - that's enough to go on for now, and I'll figure out my response now!

Lief Erikson

09-12-2005, 12:22 AM

I understand the suggestion to drop the half-elf thing, but that's one thing I do NOT want to drop at all for several reasons, one being my husband :) He's what's known as a TCK ("third culture kid"), which is when the kid grows up in a culture other than that of his/her parents, such as missionary kids, diplomat kids, many military kids, overseas business kids, etc. It's a rather unique sub-culture, with many shared characteristics, and I want to have RÃ*an deal with that.
I suppose you mean that you want her to have had to have dealt with that in the past. It's not very likely to happen in this role playing game, seeing as her growing up years were concluded millenia ago ;).

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 12:36 AM

Nice, Rian! That was expertly done, the way you explained there how Rian-Rian thinks and stuff. (I don't know how to call your game name; you & Earniel & Val all have the same "real" names 2 game names!) You're a natural at this, she-elf! :)

RÃan

09-12-2005, 12:49 AM

I suppose you mean that you want her to have had to have dealt with that in the past. It's not very likely to happen in this role playing game, seeing as her growing up years were concluded millenia ago ;).My husband is grown up, and it still makes him unique in many interesting ways, and he still deals with things related to it! We all deal with our upbringing all of our lives, of course, but TCKs deal with some things that many of us one-culture people don't, and I might work some of those things in rpg-RÃ*an's story, if it comes in naturally.

Lotesse - thanks! I sat down with the plan to write the interview, but then saw that we had moved past that, so I got the idea to write it in the past tense. And I think the mention of Finrod makes it kosher, altho still unusual. Altho I prob. should have not assumed Lilly (or any human) would know who Finrod was - I might re-write it a bit.

How 'bout calling the RÃ*an in the rpg by rpg-RÃ*an? Kind of like when we jokingly referred to "movieAragorn" when talking about something that Aragorn did in the movie that he would NOT have done in the books.

RÃan

09-12-2005, 12:54 AM

just checked my post - I don't need to edit it re Finrod, because I didn't quote what RÃ*an said, I just mentioned the concept she was getting across. She would explain in as much detail as necessary to get the point across. RÃ*an would have probably actually said that there were some very famous elves that had taken an interest in humans, and may not have even mentioned Finrod's name.

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 12:58 AM

I believe us Nazgul know a heck of a lot more people & elves & even dwarves than one in middle-earth generally may be led to believe, so it's highly likely that Viniglaen, Lilly et al DO know your husband, but they probably would never let on that they did, not to rpg-Rian anyway. There wouldn't be an advantage in it for them, y'know? It's all good...

RÃan

09-12-2005, 01:17 AM

Yes, I'm sure Lily et al have indeed heard of Finrod Felagund, but RÃ*an doesn't know Lilly et al are Nazgul, so she would not assume they know ANY elves.

not quite sure what you mean by Lilly knowing my husband; rpg-RÃ*an is NOT married.

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 01:34 AM

My bad; for some reason I was under the impression she was... :o

Oh - also, I was merely saying the Nazguls would know, but that they wouldn't necessarily do anything with the info, so whether or not rpg-Rian knew or didn't know that the Nazguls knew, wouldn't make a difference. Ow. Now my brain hurts, you know? ;) :D

RÃan

09-12-2005, 01:41 AM

I feel for ya - a common malady of my own! ;) :D

'night, all!

Grey_Wolf

09-12-2005, 02:03 AM

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 02:32 AM

Well, I'm glad Mor looks like Omar Sharif; now Viv has a face to go with the name over in Fellowship! Thanx 4 the input; I know you'll be posting more when you get well! :)

Valandil

09-12-2005, 02:49 AM

... (except Val seems to know somehow - I might ask him to edit out that reference)...

I could if you like... I was just saying that I had heard them call you this at The Red Herring (perhaps only when talking about you). So... if they would know (or guess) - I could keep it in, but otherwise I'll remove it.

Argh... just did a nice lengthy post in the game and it didn't take. :( May try again but am already up abnormally late. :mad:

Valandil

09-12-2005, 03:11 AM

Hah! I thought it didn't post...TWICE! :p But it's there twice, in two slightly different forms.

I'm up too late - why don't you guys look them over for differences and see which is better and let me know - I'll delete the other. :)

The last sane person

09-12-2005, 04:12 AM

Oh, it took alright, you double posted. And I am gonna have Marty'n'Ray tag along with you, seeing as they have had quite the fill of wraiths. Perhaps if Lily or Viv wanted to show up and chat, that would be cool, but they ought ot hang out with him.

would it be likely if these two stooges went to the meting with the chancellor with val?

Gordis

09-12-2005, 05:30 AM

would it be likely if these two stooges went to the meeting with the chancellor with val?
You mean Ray and Marty? Sure, Val will have his immediate entourage with him, including the CHAMBERLAIN :) and the advisors.
And it would be great, if you (or Val) could post the full names of Ray and Marty. That will be an official reception, mind you.

Excellent posts, Val and Rian and Shah!

CrazySquirrel

09-12-2005, 06:30 AM

Awesome posts, ye all.

Rian
I am glad that you heeded our advice, Rian. Perfect solution. Let Lilly think you are an elf.
Please, continue the story. I have left you a lead.
Don't forget to ask about your salary again. :) Lilly is going to pay you more than you could ever imagine! But she wishes total loyalty and respect of her oriental customs: no mirrors permitted. And you are to hire a kitchenmaid and a stableboy to begin with.

Gordie, what is this "Haul"in post 68? Khamul?

Earniel

09-12-2005, 06:52 AM

Gordis

09-12-2005, 07:42 AM

I hope nobody mind that I have invited myself to the Arch-Chancellor tonight as well. But since Gordis wrote it was customary, I thought I'd do so as well. Might be a good opportunity to meet with other players for the first time.
Sure I don't mind, good idea to invite yourself, Earniel.

One thing only. I still don't believe in equal rights in Arnor ;) , so IF you gave your real name and lineage and mentioned you were the Lady of the adjoining Elven realm/state/settlement/swamp... whatever, then you are to be considered a VIP and invited along with King Val on Sunday evening. If you posed as an ordinary elf, then welcome on Saturday 6 o'clock along with the commoners and petty nobles.

Actually that Rian's friend in the Red Herring, annawen? was it, should have got the invitation for Saturday as well. Who minds her, by the way?

I am not sure about Ray and Marty. I think those have a good chance to come twice, if they so wish, on Saturday, as simple new students, while on Sunday, they could attend the reception and the banquet as part of Val's entourage.

Telcontar_Dunedain

09-12-2005, 07:44 AM

Will I be there aswell?

Gordis

09-12-2005, 08:13 AM

No, TD, you are a Professor, so you come on Sunday, with the King. (I think, you have already met the Chancellor last night, upon your arrival to Tharbad, but keep it secret. That's how you learned where Lilly and Five live:evil: ). Now you have a lot of fun looking at their preparations and smirk to yourself...

Please, stay in the house and deal with all emergencies.

Earniel

09-12-2005, 08:17 AM

Perhaps it is not a matter for discussion in an RPG thread, but that needs stretching the facts quite a bit to say that royalty is of little consequence to Elves.
Oh, I'll readily admit it is more my interpretation than fact. What I tried to say was, that (in my opinion) royalty mattered less to Elves than it did to humans. I can't help but think that, if Elrond wanted to go wandering about Middl-earth by himself, the Elves would let him, regardless of whether he was EÃ¤rendil's son. Whereas that would be far less likely be allowed for human royalties.

One thing only. I still don't believe in equal rights in Arnor ;) , so IF you gave your real name and lineage and mentioned you were the Lady of the adjoining Elven realm/state/settlement/swamp... whatever, then you are to be considered a VIP and invited along with King Val on Sunday evening. If you posed as an ordinary elf, then welcome on Saturday 6 o'clock along with the commoners and petty nobles.
Oh darn, Now I have to decide don't I? :p To be honest, I hadn't worked it out yet for myself whether I was going to go 'public' or in cognito.

Well, she would be enrolled under the name EÃ¤rniel and since through Valandil's posts it is reasonable public knowledge that the Lady of NÃ®n-In-Eilph is named EÃ¤rniel, she'd be known as such. And that way she would be a VIP. But since she came all alone to Tharbad, it might be better for her, securitywise, to pose as an ordinary Elf. You see, I'm a bit torn.

But I suppose it will mostly depend on who else is going on Saterday or Sunday. If everybody else is going to show up on Sunday with the King, there's little use of EÃ¤rniel showing up on Saterday because there will be very little opportunity for interaction. But if there are some characters going on Saterday as well, I'm going with option 2 and pose as an ordinary Elf.

So who's going when? It is Saterday in the game, isn't it?

Actually that Rian's friend in the Red Herring, annawen? was it, should have got the invitation for Saturday as well. Who minds her, by the way?
I think she's a bit of public character.

Gordis

09-12-2005, 08:39 AM

I think you have a chance to come twice, Earniel.

That's how I imagine it. Suppose you came to enroll, saw an overworked clerk, who was in no way curious to even look at you, gave your real name, but no details, and got the invitation for Saturday. You have told no lies, just were brief.
Sure, soon the misunderstanding will be ended, and you will get your rightful VIP invitation from the Arch-Chancellor himself.
Sounds OK?

Re: your question
On Saturday : Lily, Penny, Vivvie, Annawen, Ray, Marty(unless they don't want it, eh, Shah?? Forgot anybody? And lots of unidentified students. 3-5 minutes interview for everyone, no drinks.

On Sunday: Val's reception at the Arch-Chancellor's office, banquet and dances and music. Cream of Tharbad noblesse invited, all Val's entourage invited, Professors with families invited.

I will be happy to see you both on Saturday and on Sunday, Earniel.

Valandil

09-12-2005, 09:23 AM

I think you have a chance to come twice, Earniel.

That's how I imagine it. Suppose you came to enroll, saw an overworked clerk, who was in no way curious to even look at you, gave your real name, but no details, and got the invitation for Saturday...

Or - the clerk might glance up on hearing the name 'Earniel' and say something like: "Riii-ight... and I'm Marilyn Monroe..." :p

Shah - it wasn't a true double-post. I actually typed up both of those! :o You'll see a few distinct differences. I'll take time later to preserve the best of both in one of them (I'm leaning to keep the second).

Gordis - trying to find a nice picture of Jeri Ryan to represent you... after all, you ARE Seven of Nine! ;) I saw a good one on another site not long ago (sans borg get-up... very alluring) - but it's gone now.

I'll try to find the names I worked up for Ray and Marty... and invent ones for the Chamberlain and tutor... and other major parties - perhaps captain of personal guard, etc. One of these guys MIGHT be Estelmo - a survivor of Gladden Fields (walking with a limp... or a cane?). I have other plans for Ohtar in my fanfic... :)

Lief Erikson

09-12-2005, 10:16 AM

I'm doing a complete remake of this post. When I wrote it I had two minutes before leaving for college. Usually I write, edit once, and then post. And then I edit about four more times! It's a really bad system, because any time, someone could come in and respond before I've finished my post! :eek: People misunderstood and were hurt by that post version, and that they were makes sense.

I really, really feel that just about the entire dispute, here and elsewhere on Entmoot, is based on misunderstanding. I am very sorry that it has occurred, and I know that it's partly my fault, as I'm not very experienced at looking at things from other people's perspectives or backgrounds. I say things occasionally that aren't intended to be rude, but come across that way. It's a failing I'll have to work on, and which RÃ*an is helping me to see.

Misunderstandings aside, I did make some mistakes I must apologize to the whole thread for. I came over and began to act in this RPG without having read the whole thing and without having the proper respect for other people's characters. It was a different manner of playing RPGs that I was running into, and one that I was very unused to. Those were honest mistakes, and I hope no one here will hold them against me. I will try not to make assumptions about people and games in the future, but rather will learn how they do things first.

Have a splendid game :). Don't close the thread. That would be a pitiful, sad ending that I think is really needless. I probably will continue looking at the thread from time to time, and if no one minds, may post some more in the discussion thread.

One thing I will remark is just regarding the third thread idea. On Atharon (mine and a friend's website), we always have three threads, and it's enormously convenient. We have a large number of characters, and these are extremely convenient to find and examine because of the purely technical thread.

RÃ*an and I were talking about how to dispose of my character. She suggests a glorious conclusion like going over a cliff. I think falling in a hole and getting stuck is a better idea :evil: . Do what you want, and enjoy it :).

I hope to see you all around Entmoot, get to know you better, and avoid falling over backward off this seat from being tired. It's midnight, and I've got classes in the morning, and I'll be getting up around 6:30 :eek: .

Farewell, roleplayers!

~Lief

RÃan

09-12-2005, 12:33 PM

***edited out - no longer relevent *** ... then I will have to seriously consider leaving, which is a shame because I was really starting to enjoy my first rpg. Perhaps this is the norm, tho? I don't know. I sure hope not! It was getting to be really fun, and I was enjoying learning a new skill and getting to know some other Mooters better. Your posts had me busting up sometimes! I had a really funny characteristic of RÃ*an that I was thinking of introducing, too, since this is a pretty humorous rpg... :D And I had great fun bringing in the fan-girl element, which has already been picked up by EÃ¤rniel (and I imagine would be a serious problem for a guy of rpg-Val's standing!)

I know that the loss of RÃ*an's character would certainly not harm the story, either, since it's centered around Nazgul, so the rpg would not be harmed and you guys could keep it going just fine. If I decide to go, you can give me a rip-roaring exit, if you want to! :D

I'd like to say, too, thanks for the kind invitation, Butterbeer, and thanks for everyone's acceptance and encouragement! It's really been a new experience, and a great one, and no matter what I decide, I'll always have fond memories of this time.

I'm going to work on some school projects for a bit and think on this. I don't want to leave without a serious effort to resolve the differences here. Can I help anyone in any way? Please PM me if I can. I was a physics major, then a computer science major/math minor in college, then worked in military radar for 10 years, which sounds impressive, but all that stuff pales in comparision to the difficulties of managing conflict between us humans! But the rewards of resolving difficulties are well worth it, and I'd sure hate to see the diverse, inventive group of humans on this rpg lose some members.

RÃan

09-12-2005, 01:33 PM

(I've already come across some misunderstandings, and am more hopeful now!)

EÃ¤rniel, Annawen's "innocent" question about the Commerce class just busted me up! :D Good one!

(as far as I know, she's a public character, right?)

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 03:34 PM

RÃan

09-12-2005, 04:14 PM

Believe me, I don't want to!

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 04:49 PM

Hey you guys, here's a pic of the wine-and-miruvor cellar at Orrodel...

http://images.forbes.com/images/2001/01/26/winecellar_377x511.jpg

Pytt

09-12-2005, 05:05 PM

There's this song by The Violent Femmes - anyone ever heard of Violent Femmes? (besides Nazgul 'femmes but that's another thing entirely ;) ) and the refrain of the song goes like this:
"Please, please, please do not /
go -oooo, /
Please,please, please do not /
go, ooh, ooh ooh."
Something like that! Anyway that song's stuck in my head but it's a song 4 Rian today. Rian!!! PLEASE do not go!!!

Violent Femmes! :D And that song is extremley cool :cool: Lotesse, we have to discuss Violent Femmes in a music thread ;)
Sorry make disturbance in here. Hope you can forgive me

RÃan

09-12-2005, 05:26 PM

Hey you guys, here's a pic of the wine-and-miruvor cellar at Orrodel...

http://images.forbes.com/images/2001/01/26/winecellar_377x511.jpg
Love it!!

Gordis

09-12-2005, 05:45 PM

Or - the clerk might glance up on hearing the name 'Earniel' and say something like: "Riii-ight... and I'm Marilyn Monroe..." :p

Hahaha! Nice hint for your future post, Earniel. Make it Lutien or Galadriel though.

Gordis - trying to find a nice picture of Jeri Ryan to represent you... after all, you ARE Seven of Nine! ;) I saw a good one on another site not long ago (sans borg get-up... very alluring) - but it's gone now.
She has beautiful eyes, but I don't like the lower part of her face too much...
Must find time to search images.google myself

I'll try to find the names I worked up for Ray and Marty... and invent ones for the Chamberlain and tutor... and other major parties - perhaps captain of personal guard, etc. One of these guys MIGHT be Estelmo - a survivor of Gladden Fields (walking with a limp... or a cane?). I have other plans for Ohtar in my fanfic... :)
Oh, yes, please, do.
Estelmo? Wauu, any of the nazgul would love to chat with him. Does he like strong drinks?

I loved CS's and Rian's posts. I think the Haunted House theme is one of most promising here. Could be an RPG in itself! Rian, we need you!!!

UMMM, the cellar, thanks Lotesse. I hope my "siblings" will not drain it before I have time to appear.

The last sane person

09-12-2005, 06:09 PM

Haha, love the cellar. Looks like my uncle's.....Only prettier.

goris-I think Marty and Ray will attend both ceremonies. Part of the entourage and as regular joes. They count as both, at least in their books and mine.

Lief- Damn...I wish this didn't have to happen...but we will be seeing you around on the moot.

Rian-Dont you leave either! Dont even think about it, or else I will grab some elvish super-glue and put it on your seat!

RÃan

09-12-2005, 06:20 PM

*pout* I will think about it, because friends are important to me!

The last sane person

09-12-2005, 06:39 PM

*fizzle* We'll work something out, everything is bendable, if the right strength is applied.

RÃan

09-12-2005, 06:43 PM

and in my experience, I've found there's often a huge amount of misunderstanding involved. :)

RÃan

09-12-2005, 06:49 PM

Fun post, CS! I just love reading your guys' writing! And I get a kick out of the "elf smell" thing :D

I'd like to request one change, though, to keep rpg-RÃ*an in character - there is no such thing as too much money to turn something down, both in my own RL opinion and in rpg-RÃ*an's opinion. Could you please re-write that bit? Rpg-RÃ*an would be willing to put up with a great deal of work and other stuff for a good amount of money, but would NOT suffer personal insults! I think we can probably play off that a bit - Lilly's need for an efficient servant with not a lot of ties to this part of the world, balanced against her hatred of elves. Perhaps something like how I wrote my post? where I started with an insult coming from Lilly and then stifled it and made her choke out a nice statement instead?

What are your thoughts? Will that work?

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 07:05 PM

LOVEd that last post, Crazy Squirrel, plus also loved King Valandil's 2nd post -that long one - and Rian's, and Earniel's, and Gordis's - now I've GOT to get Viniglaen into her dress; it's taking a little time today 'cause my computer's running slow... *yeah, yeah; excuses, excuses*

The last sane person

09-12-2005, 07:13 PM

I gotta wait for val, seeing as we are heading off with him and we have yet to know what to do with that coach and the ceremony!

Viv could cause quite the stir and NOT bother with the dress....I am sure Ray would enjoy that.....*big grin*

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 07:29 PM

IViv could cause quite the stir and NOT bother with the dress....I am sure Ray would enjoy that.....*big grin*
LOL!! Well, if it were up to her she'd be in blue jeans, a hoodie and wearing a beanie but this being polite society and all, she's gonna wear an edgy Gaultier number... Great post earlier, BTW, Shah! Forgot 2 tell U...

RÃan

09-12-2005, 07:36 PM

Viv could cause quite the stir and NOT bother with the dress....She could say, "I just have NOTHING to wear!" ;)

CrazySquirrel

09-12-2005, 07:50 PM

I'd like to request one change, though, to keep rpg-RÃ*an in character - there is no such thing as too much money to turn something down, both in my own RL opinion and in rpg-RÃ*an's opinion.

What are your thoughts? Will that work?
I didn't mean this, it was simply poor wording. Instead of "But one doesn't run away being offered too much!" I should have written "But one doesn't run away just because her employer offered too much!"
I meant that when Rian heard the sum, she was worried, what unnatural/dirty/criminal things might be asked of her to earn that much money...So she immediately inquired about her future duties.
edited "silly" also

RÃan

09-12-2005, 07:50 PM

thanks for the edit, CS - that's absolutely perfect! :)

(oops, just saw your post - we cross-posted - I was actually coming onto this thread to say I re-read the lines and realized that it wasn't quite the way I had thought it was - I saw what you were saying, and I had just misunderstood you (lot of that going on here lately :o - Earniel has mind bleach handy, maybe she has some misunderstanding bleach around, too! I think we need a clean start :) ) But anyway, your edit makes it clearer - I like it!)

RÃan

09-12-2005, 07:56 PM

(just read it again - I love the tension you put in there with Lilly trying to restrain herself from smacking RÃ*an and sending her flying out of an upper-story window, battling with her desire to have someone do the household work! :D )

The last sane person

09-12-2005, 10:05 PM

heheheh, thanks, I am having a bunch of fun on this thread. I vote that its the best I been in yet!

Lotesse

09-12-2005, 11:36 PM

Well, you guys, I got Viv dressed for the meeting but she wants to help Lil get ready, too, so she can chill with her a sec and get advice and basically have a girl chat; however, I'm not feeling terrifically creative or "on point" tonight, malheureusement :rolleyes: - but at least I got her dressed. :D

Valandil

09-13-2005, 12:22 AM

OK - little ones first:

For "Marty" - 'mar' = dwelling - so I was thinking possibly:
Martellumar = Domes of Dwelling
Marthalion = Strong Dwelling
Martolion = Island Dweller
Martumir = Valley Dweller
Martauron = Forest Dweller

My sincere apologies to true Elven scholars if I'm mistranslating - I'm just taking literal meanings of prefixes, suffixes, syllables, etc from "The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth" by Ruth S Noel.

For "Ray" - 'raen' = wander - so how about:
Raendil = Friend to Wanderers
Raenbor or Raencam = same meaning as one another I think, but I won't say what it is yet. :p :D (good though... very good! ;) ).

Shah - I'll let you choose from the options, since you're playing the characters.

Now the BIG one:

Lief - I hope that you will change your mind. I like to think that there's common ground we can all come together on. I myself was somewhat bowled over by your initial posts (for one, they were pretty demanding on ME :p ) - and by the time I got on, two had been edited out. But I thought it best to wait and reserve judgement. I saw that some got very frustrated, and yet I wasn't able to be on enough to really be of any use in sorting things out. I've given it a little thought though, and here's what I'm coming up with.

What I think all players in this game have to realize, is that we have a group of players in the game who have already been role-playing Nazguls in other games. They have invested themselves into these characters and begun to get a feel for how they like to play them. That has its good points and its bad points - one of the good is obviously a lot of fun for those playing them. One bad point I can think of is that it can easily become a 'closed' group.

For this game to work, one of two things has to happen. Either the rest of us must allow those who have been playing Nazguls to play them exactly as they have been playing them. Or else, those playing Nazguls must be willing to allow different kinds of things to happen. And - if that latter, we need to decide just how different.

I'm a continuity buff myself. If I play in a Middle-earth role-playing game, I want it to 'feel' like Tolkien's Middle-earth. Not everyone is like that. Perhaps that was something we should have discussed early in setting up some groundrules...

But anyway - whether we've talked about them or not - I don't think it's the best approach to jump on someone, or threaten to leave the game or something like that. If things get to there eventually, that's one thing... but the initial response needs to be a bit more light-hearted - or we might as well end this game now.

Does all that make sense? Any of it? OK... discuss.

(after all... this IS the Discussion Thread!)

Valandil

09-13-2005, 12:24 AM

PS - oh Lief... Valandil managed to dismiss the old Elf, at least for now... but I left him heading for the gate. You're welcome to pick it up from there. :)

Lotesse

09-13-2005, 12:54 AM

Yes, it makes sense. Thank you for being a good "King" and mod, BTW, Valandil; I can respect what you're saying and understand where you're coming from. I'd like for us all to play on without having all this in-fighting, too. It would be great if that can happen. I want to say more, but I'm having difficulty finding the words. Anyway - I'm very happy you're Kinging it around here, Val! :) :D

Valandil

09-13-2005, 01:26 AM

We High Kings are suckers for flattery! :D :p

Very seriously though... when you do find the right words to express yourself, I'm very interested in hearing them.

Valandil

09-13-2005, 01:57 AM

...(about Jeri Ryan) She has beautiful eyes, but I don't like the lower part of her face too much...
Must find time to search images.google myself...

And you MUST use the expression "Resistance is futile!" at least once in the game thread! :p

Say - we gotta get you going in the game. You know... I hear there's an opening for a waitress at a charming little riverside place called The Red Herring! ;)

Earniel

09-13-2005, 05:15 AM

I will be happy to see you both on Saturday and on Sunday, Earniel.
Great! :) Sounds like a good plan.

Or - the clerk might glance up on hearing the name 'Earniel' and say something like: "Riii-ight... and I'm Marilyn Monroe..." :p

Heehee. :D

EÃ¤rniel, Annawen's "innocent" question about the Commerce class just busted me up! :D Good one!
We aim to please. ;)

(as far as I know, she's a public character, right?)
I think so. Technically, since Valandil introduced her, he has the final word on it. So what says you, oh High King?

But anyway - whether we've talked about them or not - I don't think it's the best approach to jump on someone, or threaten to leave the game or something like that. If things get to there eventually, that's one thing... but the initial response needs to be a bit more light-hearted - or we might as well end this game now.
I agree wholeheartedly.

Gordis

09-13-2005, 06:11 AM

And you MUST use the expression "Resistance is futile!" at least once in the game thread! :p
I will try, though it sounds more like Lilly.

Say - we gotta get you going in the game. You know... I hear there's an opening for a waitress at a charming little riverside place called The Red Herring! ;)
We of the Line of Elros do not fall that low... Gordis a waitress!!! :eek:
Nay, Val, rpg-Gordis (Aiwendis) has other duties. She is terribly busy right now...But I promise, you will meet her soon.:)

Re: names. Perfect, Val! If I may express my opinion, I would have picked Martumir and Raendil
:)
But it's up to you, Shah!

Lotesse I liked your last post, but I think Viv must realize, that the odour of Morgul Flowers, though certainly delicious and most alluring for us, nazgul, curiously seems unpleasant and even sickening to mortals. Those stupid mortals...So she would hardly use that perfume before going to a public reception.
It is like Rian's elf smell disgusts Lilly (I loved this concept, CS!). Remember LOTR. "they smell the blood of living things desiring and hating it"

Gordis

09-13-2005, 06:39 AM

Now the BIG one:
...What I think all players in this game have to realize, is that we have a group of players in the game who have already been role-playing Nazguls in other games. They have invested themselves into these characters and begun to get a feel for how they like to play them. That has its good points and its bad points - one of the good is obviously a lot of fun for those playing them. One bad point I can think of is that it can easily become a 'closed' group.

For this game to work, one of two things has to happen. Either the rest of us must allow those who have been playing Nazguls to play them exactly as they have been playing them. Or else, those playing Nazguls must be willing to allow different kinds of things to happen. And - if that latter, we need to decide just how different.

I'm a continuity buff myself. If I play in a Middle-earth role-playing game, I want it to 'feel' like Tolkien's Middle-earth. Not everyone is like that. Perhaps that was something we should have discussed early in setting up some groundrules...

What you say, Val, makes imminent sense. Indeed, some ground rules and concepts should be set, made PUBLIC and AGREED UPON. Then, no new player should be accepted in this particular RPG, before he reads and accepts the rules. Something like "Read the rules and sign here". If he wants to change them - please, propose the changes and wait for all other players to approve.
The one who breaches the Rules will be asked to edit his/her posts or quit.
I think it is only fair.

Now I see a technical problem. As Lief pointed out, it is hard for a new player to read ALL the DISCUSSION thread. (BTW, I still believe that to read ALL the MAIN thread is an absolute MUST). But the Discussion thread is very long and contains a lot of chat, sidenotes, what's not, not an easy thing to read.
Therefore I ask our Lord and Lady Moderators to open a third thread for this, really very complex, RPG. It will be the CONCEPTUAL THREAD - just these groundrules and main concepts I described above. I propose to Val to re-post the opening of the game there, the timeline, place, brief info on real Arnor and RPG-Arnor etc. As it is to be a serious info thread, some quotes from the Appendices would help greatly. A link to a map would be great as well. When BB finishes collecting the CAST pictures, the cast poster will go to the conceptual thread as well as character bios. The current vacancies may be announced there as well.
I propose to post my Nazgul concept there in full. Then we can discuss it in the Discussion thread keeping the "Conceptual" thread short and empty of chat. Some edits in the concepts will be done, new ideas added. When we agree on the concept, it will become a law. And Every newbie in this RPG will be asked to READ this new thread and "sign" it.

What say ye?
Gordis

Lotesse

09-13-2005, 08:14 AM

****

CrazySquirrel

09-13-2005, 09:35 AM

I ask all the players of this RPG just forget the matter and discuss it no longer.

Tessar

09-13-2005, 11:07 AM

Loteese, you seem to have trouble with the concept that when your post has been deleted you need to speak with the admin about -why- it was deleted before reposting it.

My guess is that Val. deleted yours because you point-blank insulted Lief, while Lief didn't name any names.

Telcontar_Dunedain

09-13-2005, 11:29 AM

OK - little ones first:

For "Marty" - 'mar' = dwelling - so I was thinking possibly:
Martellumar = Domes of Dwelling
Marthalion = Strong Dwelling
Martolion = Island Dweller
Martumir = Valley Dweller
Martauron = Forest Dweller
I personally think that Martauron is the best, but as Grdis said it's Shah's choice.

My sincere apologies to true Elven scholars if I'm mistranslating - I'm just taking literal meanings of prefixes, suffixes, syllables, etc from "The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth" by Ruth S Noel.
I have that exact same book. It's where I got the translation for my name from.

For "Ray" - 'raen' = wander - so how about:
Raendil = Friend to Wanderers
Raenbor or Raencam = same meaning as one another I think, but I won't say what it is yet. :p :D (good though... very good! ;) ).
I like Raendil aswell. Val, I think they do both mean the same thing more or less. :)

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 12:02 PM

... right, i for one have read ALL the discussion thread ... nothing new there heh? ;)

Blimey ... when i first joined the Moot i read all the drunken wine thieves disucssion threrad, hoping to join ... ages later i happened to notice it had been going a year already :eek: ... and decided to leave it ...

but that's just me.

SO: before i go read the rpg (as the fellowship may know i usually do it that order) .. :D

and before i do anything else: i am going to go get a very large and Cold beer! :eek:

CrazySquirrel

09-13-2005, 12:42 PM

Great that you are back, BB.
Belated congratulations on your Birthday!

I think your Widow was a bittle neglected, but she did manage to publish an article on Lilly's rescue in the Society column.
Where is our Beautiful Boumerang? We missed him!
Hope you like my posts about Lilly.
CS

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 12:46 PM

... i hope she is o.k. (ain't read it yet) ... i ain't got that many walking characters ...

CrazySquirrel

09-13-2005, 01:10 PM

The Widow? She is as good as new. Nobody touched her (yet?)

About characters. I think there is still a lot of unguided characters, all the King's entourage to fill... and we lack Mor, Goth and Eight...

CrazySquirrel

09-13-2005, 01:25 PM

I have forgotten to mention that LadyLilly needs a lady's-maid (100% human, mind you). Plenty of opportunity for exiting chat with Rian.

And a butler and 2 house servants and 2 stable-boys.
Then Annawen needs guidance badly.

Could you BB, or anyone else willing to take these at least temporarily?

Lotesse

09-13-2005, 02:09 PM

I've been hesitating on story-post in part because I'll admit I've been kinda unsure what exactly an archchancellor means - also, Gordis are we wraiths in the know as to the true identity of the archchancellor - is he gonna be who I think? I just don't want to screw the story up if i post something ignorant-sounding. It's stressing me out! :rolleyes: Pluis right now I have to get ready 4 my doc appt., gotta go but I'll be back later on today. CS, if you feel like it you can speak 4 Viv right now to follow on Gordis's lead; if not I'll be back this afternoon...

Here's what I found online about chancellors; is this what is meant for our archchancellor guy?
http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=chancellor

CrazySquirrel

09-13-2005, 02:29 PM

Yes, our Arch-Chancellor is there. Look for the Chancellor of the University.
The Head of the Uni.
University of South Arnor is not so big as Oxford or Cambridge, I believe, so our chancellor will have some spare time from signing the diplomas. ;)
Perhaps he even gives some lectures, eh, Gordis?

And no, we have no idea who he is, Gor made that clear.
I will post now with your permission, I will not sit long today.
CS

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 02:33 PM

heh guys ... :) .. well i am working my way through it .. shall have alot to post here this night ... :eek:

(some-one's got to keep Shah busy reading , heh?)

firstly though, Lotesse .. the scene with old mrs W at the house ... the point there was only to get a good pr story for marty and ray ... to help them become "official" minders to rpg or "randy' val ;) ...

any chance you could edit a good damsel in distress rescued story in ? ... keep the rest though it's another good sub plot!

anyway ..you could use the article to put a good society cover story out there for you guys, too.

OLD CRONE? who said that - i can't remember? I see old mrs W as a tolkien world version of granny weatherwax (meets nanny Ogg) :D
but a tharbad tolkien version, of course!

CS: thanks for the offer of being a lady's maid ... but one female character will do just for now! ;) ... ask TD .. he can do excellent voices and falsettos :D

best all, BB :)

Marty was silently shocked, "Sauron's Balls! Ray can FLIRT! Why, that brick, I never knew he had it in him...and he is doing a damn fine job of it too! With quite the woman to tangle with no less!"

well, so far that has to be my quote of the week: "sauron's balls!" :D

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 02:54 PM

CS:
Did he feel the same silent mysterious call as she and Five did? Apparently soâ€¦ Indeed it must be so, as Vivvi was there also. So... were all the others coming too? WHO has called them and WHY? Or were they also after the Ruling Ring? At this thought, a cold shiver ran down Lilly's spine. Will we have to fight each other over the Ring? There was no friendship in the shadow of the One. Only fire and pain and madness...

Like it! .. in the shadow of the One ... only fire, pain and madness ...

who indeed has made this mysterious call (and why? ;) ) ... winked OOC Beautiful Boomerang ... whistling on the wind

eh Gor!

edit: ref the rescue story, gor ...? post #68 ...we need that to be written first! :D

RÃan

09-13-2005, 03:11 PM

It is incredibly unfair that Lief gets to say whatever he wants to and about me, yet my defense gets auto-erased ... O.K. then very seriously I will find my own words with which to defend myself, as everyone no doubt by now thinks that I am the one Lief is referring to. Lotesse! *moothug* Hold on there, girlfriend!
Lief mentioned no names, and I, for one, did NOT think he was referring to you. :)
I like BOTH of you guys, and can see BOTH sides, plus I see some misunderstandings, which I'm in the midst of trying to clear up, because I think once they are explained, most of this disagreement will evaporate.

I can totally understand your desire to defend yourself. False accusations are a terrible thing (and I think both of you have made them, but not intentionally; rather, they've been based on wrong info). But as I said, I truly think that once several misunderstandings that I've found are cleared up, the problems will be sorted out, too.

And I love this RPG, and have no intentions of leaving it ... You may not have a choice - sorry! - because if this goes on much longer, the thread will be closed down. SO - I'll be back online for a coupla hours, and I'll have a PM to you shortly explaining the first misunderstanding, and we'll see if we can keep the rpg from being shut down. In the meantime, would you please consider removing the rest of your post? (save it in case you want to put it back up again, but seriously, I think this thread is teetering on the edge of a lockdown :eek: and it might be best to remove it.)

RÃan

09-13-2005, 03:14 PM

I just don't want to screw the story up if i post something ignorant-sounding. It's stressing me out! :rolleyes: yeah, I get stressed, too!! History and geography are my weak points, and altho I've read many of the HoME books (History of Middle Earth) and can discuss the finer points of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth at great length (in fact, I started a thread on it - we should reopen it!), I am TOTALLY at sea when it comes to what region is near what :o or when it was time-wise. *sigh*

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 03:28 PM

why would this rpg be closed down?
that does'nt make any sense whatsover.

you do get disagreements in rpg ... i, too like both involved! :)

valandil:
(slight rewind in time)

Mental illness is sad among any of the free peoples of Middle Earth, but somehow it seemed particularly tragic among Elves... perhaps owing to the great majesty they could have... or perhaps the fact that they were culturally in complete denial over the whole mental illness thing anyway... sad indeed.
... no need to bother the REAL Lord High Chamberlain about this... good thing he had remembered the address on the 'Help Wanted' ad for the household servant). "As for me, I must be off! Guard... show me the way!" no need to bother the REAL Lord High Chamberlain about this... good thing he had remembered the address on the 'Help Wanted' ad for the household servant). "As for me, I must be off! Guard... show me the way!"[/QUOTE]

mmm.. infectious this double posting :D
:D :D
maybe we could have the whole haunted houshold staff as mad Elves! some of the mental elf's associates? ... would explain why they might not notice anything odd?? and there's rian turning a blind eye to many many things as part of the job, and having to culturally turn a blind eye on that lot!

she could assign a particularly incompetent or doo-lalley elf to the laundry section! (you gotta have some one who is easily distracted for the laundry Rian! ;) )

The Naz could have fun with some mentally deranged elf servants! ...they'd have to do something about the smell though....

CrazySquirrel

09-13-2005, 03:49 PM

maybe we could have the whole haunted houshold staff as mad Elves! some of the mental elf's associates? ... would explain why they might not notice anything odd?? and there's rian turning a blind eye to many many things as part of the job, and having to culturally turn a blind eye on that lot!

she could assign a particularly incompetent or doo-lalley elf to the laundry section! (you gotta have some one who is easily distracted for the laundry Rian! ;) )

The Naz could have fun with some mentally deranged elf servants! ...they'd have to do something about the smell though....
There was only ONE mad elf, BB. And Lilly will not stand another elf in the house, mad or not. She said specifically, NO ELVES! The only good elf is a dead elf!

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 03:56 PM

:)

yeah well i just read that no more elves stuff ... funny idea though! I was just enjoying val's lighter side. :D

anyway, we are not elves ...why should we be socially conditioned to not see the truth of the many many mentally ill elves roaming around ;) ... there could be loads of em' ... :eek: ... where do you think he got the 1,000 signatures??? :)

elves .... mad the lot of them! (only kidding!)

btw: you only been in this house couple of days yes/no? it needs cleaning and staff etc yup ... but 2 weeks worth of washing up to do???

also use of language could be a bit tighter all round ...eg Shah: Valandil "hey you guys" etc ... maybe "well met, merry rogues" or something better?

what do you reckon all?

RÃan

09-13-2005, 03:56 PM

ok, guys, I had rpg-RÃ*an overhear something at the door, but I leave it to you Nazzys to decide what she overhears...

(and I put in a reference to the Fall of Gondolin (Tarnin Austa, which was the great feast at the Gates of Summer which was just going to start at dawn when the baddies came), which I hope tempts anyone who hasn't read it to get their buns to a bookstore/library and get The Book of Lost Tales II (aka HoME II) and read it! Great, great story!)

RÃan

09-13-2005, 03:59 PM

Hey, BB, here's a quote for YOU from FoG -

from The Fall of Gondolin, by JRRT
Here saw he the first butterflies and was glad of the sight; and it is said that all butterflies and their kindred were born in the valley of the Land of Willows.

(the "he" is referring to Tuor, that stud-muffin!)

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 04:06 PM

excellent ... i can use that
valley of the Land of Willows.

thanks rian.

that'll make it into the 'Annals of Air' i'm sure.

Gordis

09-13-2005, 04:45 PM

eh Gor!
edit: ref the rescue story, gor ...? post #68 ...we need that to be written first! :D
Ok, I'll put there something about the big reception scheduled for Sunday.
But don't forget, the Widow learned Lilly's name. And she could have followed Ray and Marty.

Now I propose we wait with our Saturday Evening reception for petty nobles and commoners till Val, Ray and Marty finish describing their business at the gate.

Rian, why won't Annawen come to chat with you and see how it goes at your new job? She might also wish you to help with some details of the dress she has donned for the reception. Borrow a necklace, perhaps? And you could tell her what you have overheard. Sounds OK?
I liked your Gondolon reference!

Butterbeer

09-13-2005, 05:03 PM

tis' saturday morning / mid-morning/ lunchtime just now??

Gordis

09-13-2005, 05:08 PM

In Orrodel it is about 4-5 PM. King Val and his R&M left for the Gates at about noon and were not heard from since. The reception is due at 6 PM and R&M chose to attend. So, I see we must wait for the Good side to post.

RÃan

09-13-2005, 05:40 PM

Rian, why won't Annawen come to chat with you and see how it goes at your new job? She might also wish you to help with some details of the dress she has donned for the reception. Borrow a necklace, perhaps? And you could tell her what you have overheard. Sounds OK?
s'okay with me - will have to do it a bit later, tho, gotta run now!

Gordis

09-13-2005, 07:47 PM

Sorry, Rian, I have posted the reception already, couldn't wait. Annawen is there. If you could write how Annawen came to see you after the reception, she will have plenty to tell you. :)

Lotesse

09-13-2005, 08:16 PM

What you say, Val, makes imminent sense. Indeed, some ground rules and concepts should be set, made PUBLIC and AGREED UPON. Then, no new player should be accepted in this particular RPG, before he reads and accepts the rules. Something like "Read the rules and sign here". If he wants to change them - please, propose the changes and wait for all other players to approve.
The one who breaches the Rules will be asked to edit his/her posts or quit.
I think it is only fair.

Now I see a technical problem. As Lief pointed out, it is hard for a new player to read ALL the DISCUSSION thread. (BTW, I still believe that to read ALL the MAIN thread is an absolute MUST). But the Discussion thread is very long and contains a lot of chat, sidenotes, what's not, not an easy thing to read.
Therefore I ask our Lord and Lady Moderators to open a third thread for this, really very complex, RPG. It will be the CONCEPTUAL THREAD - just these groundrules and main concepts I described above. I propose to Val to re-post the opening of the game there, the timeline, place, brief info on real Arnor and RPG-Arnor etc. As it is to be a serious info thread, some quotes from the Appendices would help greatly. A link to a map would be great as well. When BB finishes collecting the CAST pictures, the cast poster will go to the conceptual thread as well as character bios. The current vacancies may be announced there as well.
I propose to post my Nazgul concept there in full. Then we can discuss it in the Discussion thread keeping the "Conceptual" thread short and empty of chat. Some edits in the concepts will be done, new ideas added. When we agree on the concept, it will become a law. And Every newbie in this RPG will be asked to READ this new thread and "sign" it.

What say ye?
Gordis
I vote yes, I think it's an excellent idea.

RÃan

09-13-2005, 09:34 PM

I think that's a good idea, too. Have the "real" rpg thread, a fun discussion thread, and a kind of formal historical notes thread for background info and bios and things like that. All chat to go on discussion thread.

RÃan

09-13-2005, 09:50 PM

Sorry, Rian, I have posted the reception already, couldn't wait. Annawen is there. If you could write how Annawen came to see you after the reception, she will have plenty to tell you. :)sounds good - I'll wait for the reception to end.

The last sane person

09-14-2005, 01:11 AM

Marthalion and Raendil Sounds goodah to me, I will edit appropriatly. And I agree fully with gordis! Its good that we have such keen minds aboard!

Valandil

09-14-2005, 01:22 AM

May I respectfully ask you, Mister Erikson, to make public those "swear words, curses and hurtful words that are lashing you almost every time you access Entmoot". As well as proofs of "personal attacks you are getting daily"?
The person you obviously referred to called you a liar. Proofs, please, Mr. Erikson!

If you have no proofs, than I ask all the players of this RPG just forget the matter and discuss it no longer.

No CS - I do not WANT him to respond to this and drag this out any further. It's pointless. I don't care so much about who started this or how - I want it to end... NOW!

So how about if everyone follows only the last sentence of your post - without the first five words.

***

I want to make sure everyone understands that I've begun to lose my patience with this particular line of discussion. I will do whatever it takes... even to closing the thread or imposing a ban... to be done with it.

And I will not lose a wink of sleep over it. Quite the contrary - I'll probably sleep nice and easy.

[edited: some portions deleted in the best interests of keeping the peace - threat retained for the common welfare. :p ]

Valandil

09-14-2005, 01:28 AM

OK - now a post about the game - or about discussing the game.

I don't know if I really want a THIRD thread about this game. But Earniel - you're a more experienced RPG'er than me... what do you think?

The basic geographical and historical information could be summarized pretty briefly - I do a little in one of the early posts of the game thread - should I add to it? OTOH, getting in all the detailed information would be ponderous. I COULD try to add some references to particular sources for information, if that would be helpful to some. (Gordis - could you help me with this, if any request it?)

I am about to try posting to bring Valandil and his buds up to the right time of day. Thanks for being patient. :)

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 01:36 AM

****

RÃan

09-14-2005, 01:57 AM

guys - I just finished talking to Lief, and he is MORE than willing to edit his post (in fact, I think he's working on it now) because he NEVER intended it to be taken the way it was taken! I've known him for years and can vouch for that with certainty.

Sorry I took so long to get back to you, Lotesse; I was tied up with that crazy candy sale, then home late and dinner and homework and etc. etc., and just finished talking to Lief a short time ago.

Lotesse, will you be around tomorrow morning, because Lief wanted me to run something by you for your opinion :) and frankly, I"m too tired to do it now! :eek:

Val - all is well, and posts are being edited. :) Shall we move everything to PM?

RÃan

09-14-2005, 02:01 AM

I don't know if I really want a THIRD thread about this game...
I know 3 sounds like a lot at first glance, but coming from a rookie (me), I think it's a GREAT idea! Trying to find bios and info on a discussion thread is just really difficult. Yet I don't want to make the discussion thread merely bios and info, because the talk there is great fun! ANd it's perfect for quick little notes like "can you please change this one thing she said, because I'm planning such-and-such", which would totally clutter up an info thread.

I really like it, Val, can we please try it?

The last sane person

09-14-2005, 02:46 AM

I will start and police it, if that is acceptable? So val and ear wont need to be bothered?

Lief Erikson

09-14-2005, 03:10 AM

I've finished revising my post. As I explain in there, I did make some mistakes there, and there was a reason for that. I definitely should have been more careful to make a good, solid final draft of my post before sending it. That one had a lot of room for interpretation.

Earniel

09-14-2005, 05:02 AM

I want to make sure everyone understands that I've begun to lose my patience with this particular line of discussion. I will do whatever it takes... even to closing the thread or imposing a ban... to be done with it.
That goes for me as well. You can all thank RÃ*an for it that I haven't closed this game immediatly yesterday.

I don't know if I really want a THIRD thread about this game. But Earniel - you're a more experienced RPG'er than me... what do you think?
So far it has never been necesary, even discussion-threads are a 'recent' development but that is of little importance now. Still, I'd advise against a third thread. I think a third thread can complicate things needlesly. Is all the information we want to add enough to warrant a new thread? Adding too much information about the area and aera may prove as stiffling as reading a long-winded discussion thread.

Consider that, if the thread is only used for stating the rules for joining and playing, setting and character-bios it will eventually sink off the page due to inactivity and be easily missed by a new player that wishes to join. Therefore I would rather advise to include this information either in the first post of the game-thread or the discussion-thread. I've seen that done many times before and it works well enough. How does that sound?

EDIT: I take it I'm the Elf in the green dress?

Gordis

09-14-2005, 05:19 AM

Consider that, if the thread is only used for stating the rules for joining and playing, setting and character-bios it will eventually sink off the page due to inactivity and be easily missed by a new player that wishes to join. Therefore I would rather advise to include this information either in the first post of the game-thread or the discussion-thread. I've seen that done many times before and it works well enough. How does that sound?
I have not thought about the info thread sinking down the page. Yes, it will, and it is bad. Could you glue it somehow? If not, perhaps we can make the info- posts at the beginning of the Discussion thread. But again, I simply don't know, do you, moderators and administrators, have a possibility to insert a post in the beginning of a tread or transfer a post from one place to another?

I, for once, will need to post quite a lot: the whole concept of the nazgul in the beginning of the Third Age, their 9 rings, their powers, their altered senses, invisibility/visibility etc. Most of it is AU, of course, just for this game. That is why there must be a place where every new player could read this easily. We know very little from Tolkien what a nazgul (with his ring on) can do. The poor wretches sent to the Shire were ringless, you know.
:)

AndÃºril

09-14-2005, 05:22 AM

Space for another character? I've read through this discussion thread, and probably half of the RPG (--I'll get to the rest of it when I have time).

I have an idea for an interesting and potentially entertaining personality. Ideally, my character would be in the background most of the time, purely because I don't have much time to devote to these threads.

My past attempts at RPGs have been quite poor. I've always been an outsider with a secret plot: in the Elf Pirate Wine Quest Thingy I was the "Thing" in the Room (The room is locked) while everyone else was either an Elf or a Man or hobbit, IIRC. In the sequel, I was a Maia with an alterior motive disguised as an Elf Lord. In both cases, I didn't last much longer than a week or three.

In this case, however, I would not enter with a plot in mind. Mine would not be a central character--not even close. Much like Rian's character, mine would react according to the situation, based on his personality and traits. That's not to say he wouldn't be proactive in certain scenarios, but in general he'd be a reactive character.

Like I said, I still need to read through the rest of the RPG, but in the interim, anyone have some ideas for a character along these lines:

Depressed by his nihilism, apathetic to most things, he is easily distracted by momentary hedonistic urges*. His lack of ambition is tempered with dry wit and half-hearted cynicism.

*Don't worry mods, I'll adhere to PG-13 constraints and drop all the sexual innuendo, but it's going to be hard. ;)

Gordis

09-14-2005, 05:24 AM

We really do need info and bios put separately and readily accessible! Just now I need to locate Annawen's bio. I remember reading it, but now I will have to scan lots of posts to find it...

Gordis

09-14-2005, 05:30 AM

Depressed by his nihilism, apathetic to most things, he is easily distracted by momentary hedonistic urges*. His lack of ambition is tempered with dry wit and half-hearted cynicism.

*Don't worry mods, I'll adhere to PG-13 constraints and drop all the sexual innuendo, but it's going to be hard. ;)

Welcome, Anduril. You look like a promising candidate for a nazgul. We have 3 vacant places. Only don't start posting immediately, let's agree on your character.
If you don't like it, you may become a butler in Lilly's haunted house, if Rian and CS will accept you.
Alternatively, you could ask King Val for a position in his entourage. I think there must be a fascinating character to play - Estelmo, the only survivor of Gladden Fields.

Butterbeer

09-14-2005, 05:56 AM

I will start and police it, if that is acceptable? So val and ear wont need to be bothered?

"Sauron's balls!" *Grabs SUPER SHELOB Stun gun and whole bunch of Sir Doc GW's new-to-market 'chill pills' coming in both Elven, Nazgul and other flavours and Joins the Shah to help police 'THE THIRD WAY' .

Actually there shouldn't be too much to trouble in there (why do you think i volunteered for the job? :D ) because it will be a core of easy to assilimate information and then just a post or two from me! ;)

Once it has the core outlines, bio and rules of engagment, only the very odd concise update need be added... rather like this thread :p (kidding of course)

besides with Shah and me (if he'll take me on to the force, mind?? - I'll call you Guv' if you like ... have you seen the Sweeney? ) patrolling the mean streets...or the street (the THIRD way) or at least having a tharbad donut equivalant or three wth some coffee and putting our feet up ready to spring to action ... when the bar opens ... ahem i digress ... heh don't ask this officer of the peace for directions ...

anyway with the Shah (the Guv) and BB (to be confirmed on the force following Shah's lengthy and exhaustive character check etc ... ??? "you in?" ... "ok" ??? - these initiation ceremonies can be so formal and lengthy! and that cuts down real police time supporting the bars and food establishments of the street) i'm sure our heady mix of Dutch bandero chilled out "no problem" policing style where a friendly smile, a laugh and a joke keep the third way chilled - and our no-nonsense stun and chill SAS style rapid response elite tactics division (that's also Shah and BB(pending ...) will ENSURE there's no trouble on the Street!

(my god, The Street ... sounds like an RPG already .... don't worry Valandil and Earniel, it WON'T BE :p )

Sorry Lief ... not really up on all this ... which post? what number was it?

...........................

Right i guess i will have to curtail my many other points as they would probably take 2 pages or so ...

with regard to the bigger issues:

here would be my rules:
1]Other issues or flames in the rpg arena

if anyone wants to put this rpg in threat by continous actions (rather than just a one-off incident which is different to my mind ..and can happen easily to anyone) whatever the rights or wrongs of it .... any person threatens this rpg with closure they should either take a 24 or 48 hr rest period (their choice) from both the rpg and discussion threads till they have either calmed it down, sorted it out or agreed with whomever that whatever else may happen it in NO WAY enters THIS thread.

AGREED?

I.e. keep it out of here: this is an rpg nothing else: we have imaginary characters... so imagine your character likes the other character :D

2. new characters
Two main points here,

2.a exisiting rpg players, helping out new characters: the basic guidelines

all rpg players should agree to give new characters some leeway when they first start posting in an established and complex rpg ... give them some help, support and encouragment: if they really are causing mayhem then politely ask them to edit: if they then do edit and are willing to be team players then great! If not then of course it will need to be looked at. But they must be given a chance to fit in and a chance to edit.

2.b What existing RPG players can expect from new players: new player guidelines

Similarly, existing RPG players should have the right to expect new players have read all or at least a fair amount of start, middle and end of the rpg (depending on it's size at that point) and have a feel for how it is played.

(personally this is something i always do: if you are interested then you will do it, if you are not going to be interested you will not. e.g. Rian made 15 pages of notes or something! It took me ages reading Drunken elf pirates discussion ... mind you i learnt all about it (at least how it was played and what people thought and interacted to discuss things etc, having never actually read the rpg itself ...)

There should be no hard and fast on just how much new players have read, provided they have a half decent grounding and are willing to catch up PROVIDED of course they are willing to edit posts that may cause problems ... but this would then work heavily in conjunction with BB edict ( :D ) 2.a above: it's a two-way thing here.

New players should have read some of the start and end (minimum) of the discussion threads and ideally ask some questions about their intended characters in the discussion thread .. so they are welcomed in rather than become a bolt out of the blue! They should consider the implications of their characters actions or general posts on the plot, balance and direction of the rpg and other chararcters too ... unless they are GM (Games master) then they should consult in terms of any major new directions. We are all friendly here (really! most of the time :D ) and new ideas are always welcome and make an rpg what it is!

3 Donughts
Each rpg player shall contribute a donught tax towards the upkeep of the street's (the third way) police force ... one doghnut a week will suffice to keep the peace ... this can be done in the teacup cafe and you can pay for a years fun and friendly policing at one time! :D

.................................................. ......................................

Finally, i was sad to see that Lief left, that a stupid argument brewed up - though i go on record here and now i COULD understand why it did ... but Lief should have been given a fairer chance to edit and fit in ... and he did want to! ... mistakes were made all round, it happens! ... and unfortunately it HAS.

But for my part i liked all the mooters involved :) and still do.
SO can we all now move on and start interacting with butterflies!

best all
BB :)

Butterbeer

09-14-2005, 06:13 AM

just read some new posts above mine ....

Shah and i can walk the beat once a week to post an editable inclusion to the third way..

easy ... we walk the beat to keep it alive ... when people post anything needed and valid to a CONCISE quick-look view of the rpg ... we copy and paste it to and edit at the top of the thread over one of our "walks past whistling" posts and then whoever edits their post later down to
"sees Shah and BB at the pub again ..." etc.

no problem.

if it don't work, ditch it! could be worth trying though.

Anduril, welcome! If you want to keep it pg 13...do NOT get a job up at the haunted House! :eek: :D

Sure you will enjoy it! ... i'm thinking the Brotherhood of butterflies could do with a human agent ...? Plus you can add to the public characters too.

and of course develop your own.

best BB :)

Earniel

09-14-2005, 07:32 AM

I have not thought about the info thread sinking down the page. Yes, it will, and it is bad. Could you glue it somehow? If not, perhaps we can make the info- posts at the beginning of the Discussion thread. But again, I simply don't know, do you, moderators and administrators, have a possibility to insert a post in the beginning of a tread or transfer a post from one place to another?
I could stick it on top of the forum like the thread 'how do there RPG's work?' is stuck at the moment. However that treatment is reserved for important messages and announcements. I am unprepared to start using that function for the ordinary threads.

I do not know of a possibility to inserts posts at the beginning of a thread (perhaps Val does). We can merge and split threads but the posts arrange themselves chronologically so we cannot -to my knowledge- slip posts of a later date before earlier ones.

Grey_wolf's first post in the Discussion thread and Lotesse's post that follows right after can be editted to include the necesary information. It is also possible, if the information is too much to fit into the post, to work with links to later posts that hold biographies or other nazgul explanations.

Examples:

Butterbeer's butterfly (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484403&postcount=87)
CrazySquirrel's Lilly (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484582&postcount=102)
Viv's photo (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=485230&postcount=184)

On a second thought, the use of links instead of copying all the information into the first posts, is probably more flexible as well. That way people can still control their own character description (in their own post somewhere in the discussion thread) without having to rely on others to edit the first post with the crucial information. All the information will still be neatly bundled. And people will not have to scroll through pages of info, they will be able to pinpoint posts that hold biographies and rules very easily.

But keep in mind to stay brief in explanations and to add to the first post only info and links that are relevant to this game.

Shah and i can walk the beat once a week to post an editable inclusion to the third way..

easy ... we walk the beat to keep it alive ... when people post anything needed and valid to a CONCISE quick-look view of the rpg ... we copy and paste it to and edit at the top of the thread over one of our "walks past whistling" posts and then whoever edits their post later down to
"sees Shah and BB at the pub again ..." etc.
More effort that it's worth IMO, BB. Most people are used to two threads relating to the same RPG by now. Three threads about the self same game will, I think, only confuse people. Besides, you won't be able to stop people from posting in the third thread. It could very easily become less concise than the original intentions.

And what if you and Sane are absent for a longer period?

Gordis

09-14-2005, 07:40 AM

Earniel, thanks for the explanations. That will be OK. How do you make links to a post?

Butterbeer

09-14-2005, 07:43 AM

we could make some sherrifs :D ... (kidding!)

or add a link at top of discussion thread to third bit. so they read that bit first ... plus this 3rd bit can only be posted to by mods .. then anyone wants to join in they talk to us in discussion thread as normal ... and we refer them to concise info to read.

they post their bio as normal in here (discussion thread) ... once approved for clarity and conciseness one or other mod copies and posts a link to it in third way.

any additional info added can remain here as normal

How's about that?

Plus .. any feedback on my guidelines?

Best
BB :)

Gordis

09-14-2005, 07:59 AM

I think we can ask Grey Wolf to put the summary (with links to specific posts with info and rules) in his initial post. GW can be the "Keeper of the Info". Everyone here trusts him, I am sure.

Earniel

09-14-2005, 08:32 AM

Earniel, thanks for the explanations. That will be OK. How do you make links to a post?
At the right upper corner of each post there's a number of that post. Click your right mouse button on that number and select 'properties' (at least I think that's how it is called in English?) and you will see the internet-address of that particular post. Or click with your left mouse so the post opens in a seperate window and copy the address from he address-bar there. Then all you have to do is put the [URL] tags around it to make it a link.

CrazySquirrel

09-14-2005, 08:58 AM

Now we have to wait for your post, Gordie. No one, but you knows what awaits us inside! :D
great info on the Chancellor

Lief Erikson

09-14-2005, 10:01 AM

Sorry Lief ... not really up on all this ... which post? what number was it?

#392, I think. It's my "leaving" post. If anyone takes offense at anything I wrote in the more recent version, none is intended. Tell me what you find wrong so that I can edit further, please.

Gordis

09-14-2005, 10:46 AM

Earniel, thanks for explaining the links to me. I shall try to write my INFO part as soon as I have time.

CS, could you, please, for the sake of continuity, take away the last two paragraphs of your post, about Annawen coming out and Lilly going in. I wanted to describe Annawen's interview. You are welcome to start the new post with those lines.
Gor

AndÃºril

09-14-2005, 11:17 AM

Welcome, Anduril. You look like a promising candidate for a nazgul. We have 3 vacant places. Only don't start posting immediately, let's agree on your character.
If you don't like it, you may become a butler in Lilly's haunted house, if Rian and CS will accept you.
Alternatively, you could ask King Val for a position in his entourage. I think there must be a fascinating character to play - Estelmo, the only survivor of Gladden Fields.I'd say my character is a blend of the two in this pic (http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/7624/who9mr.jpg). Not a blend in terms of looks, but that type of personality. Oh, and not Ferrell's character in Elf, but closer to his SNL work.

Gordis

09-14-2005, 11:53 AM

Hmmm, I don't think you look like a nazgul, Anduril.

Neither I think as a butler. Perhaps someone in Val's group?

RÃan

09-14-2005, 12:04 PM

On a second thought, the use of links instead of copying all the information into the first posts, is probably more flexible as well. That way people can still control their own character description (in their own post somewhere in the discussion thread) without having to rely on others to edit the first post with the crucial information. All the information will still be neatly bundled. And people will not have to scroll through pages of info, they will be able to pinpoint posts that hold biographies and rules very easily.

But keep in mind to stay brief in explanations and to add to the first post only info and links that are relevant to this game.

I like the idea of links and was going to propose it, too, but in a slightly different way.

I really think the 3-thread idea is a good one, and to be anal about it, ;) I would propose standard formats in the form of something like:

Calling All Nazgul : rpg thread
Calling All Nazgul : discussion thread
Calling All Nazgul : formal info thread

Then in the first post of the rpg thread, you could say something like "for any new player interested in joining, here is a link [provide link] to our formal information page, where you will find background descriptions and bios of characters. Please do NOT post comments here, as this thread is for reference only. Please put all chat in the discussion thread here [provide link], and please keep the rpg thread only for rpg and short OOC comments."

That way, even if the info thread sinks down, it will still be readily available thru the link.

I know that I would sure appreciate a third thread that has bios and info. Third Age history is not my strong point :eek: and I'm terrible at geography!

RÃan

09-14-2005, 12:19 PM

Val - the odd butterfly being the cause of the runaway - I love it!! :D :D Great! And I like the mysterious vanishing of the occupant of the coach ... :eek:

But one thing I don't understand is the treatment of the orc :confused: It just doesn't make sense to me :confused: Personally, I think it would be more consistent to change everything from orc to orc-like. I just never saw anywhere in Tolkien where any orc was allowed to live. What thinkest thou? I know you mentioned the normal orc policy, but I don't see why it would be deviated from! And orc-like would allow a deviation, or at least a pause for evaluation before killing it.

I just read the newest posts. Please, mods, have mercy on me, a poor little rpg newbie!!!!! It was bad enough with about 12 major characters, but when they start using their alternate names, I just lose it! Could we please try out the 3-thread format?

Actually, I don't see any mods on now, so maybe one of the main rpg people just start the thread up. I'm sure the mods wouldn't mind *throws yummy cookies and chocolate to the mods ;) * and they can always shut it down if it doesn't work, anyway. What do you guys (mods included) think of this: everyone in the rpg make at least a placeholder post in the formal info thread, and then put in info in that post as required, kind of like I do in the Entmoot Picture Links thread. That way, the thread will be very compact.

RÃan

09-14-2005, 12:28 PM

(hey, gordis just hit 500 posts and is now an Elf Lord - congrats, gordis! Will you choose a custom title?)

Earniel

09-14-2005, 01:04 PM

*quick post between cleaning*

RÃ*an, please have some more patience. A third thread now is not going to immediatly alleviate you of the confusion because all the information we have to put in that third thread is still is scattered and fragmented. So whether we put it in one post here or a whole new thread is, IMO, not going to be any sooner. We first have to find everyone's biography, provided everyone has written one in the first place, which I for one know I didn't.

*goes off to finish cleaning*

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 01:44 PM

This RPG is written so well, it looks like an actual novelette! Fantastic writing, everyone.

Anduril, I'm SO glad you've decided to join the RPG. Be a nazgul; you're definitely Nazgullian I think. Nazguls of the Moot, unite!

o.k.,I got rid of all the harshin' posts I wrote in reference to L., just so everyone knows. Thank you Lief for changing the wording in your "leaving" post, btw. That beef is officially over, Val & Earniel just so you know. The end.

P.S. WHY does this post have to be the first one on a new page? *groan* :rolleyes:

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 02:21 PM

Earniel, thanks for the explanations. That will be OK. How do you make links to a post?
Yeah, I need to know this one too - How does one make links to a post? My Viniglaen bio got really buried (this is a HELL of a long, long discussion thread) and I'd like to put her pics, her outfit, and her biography profile into one post to make it easily accessible. I wish I knew how to create a link to that bio, at least.

Oh - congrats on your 500th post, Gordis! Plus it was nice that it happened to be that story post in our RPG - :)

RÃan

09-14-2005, 03:22 PM

RÃ*an, please have some more patience....
Patience? What's patience, preciousssss?

(oh, OK, then, I"ll be patient! :) )

But EÃ¤rniel, you don't need to do the work - let everyone search out their own info posts and put it on the thread. You shouldn't have to do anything except gather info for your character.

Lotesse - I'll put in a link to your latest post : here it is:

Lotesse's post (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?p=486987#post486987)

Now hit the "quote" button on my post and you can see how I entered it. Use this format, and just substitute whatever post id number you want into the string in place of "486987" (be sure to substitute for both places). Give it a whirl, you'll figure it out in a few tries - if not, ask again!

RÃan

09-14-2005, 03:26 PM

Here's a link to EÃ¤rniel's post using her right-click-and-go-to-properties thing:

sea elf post (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=486929&postcount=471)

edit - only problem with that is it only shows a single post, not the whole thread, but I like getting the addy that way, it's easier!

edit #2 - I think I'll use the right-click thing, then just edit the string - change "showpost" to "showthread", and change "&postcount" to "#post" and add the post id.

Or you can also find a post from Val and copy the string from his siggy, putting in the post id you want.

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 03:29 PM

Viniglaen's profile (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?do=editpost&p=485483url)

her necklace, one of many
http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/images/1195gem2.jpg

and the dress she wore to the Arch Chancellor's function
http://www.style.com/slideshows/fashionshows/F2005RTW/LVUITTON/RUNWAY/00360f.jpg

and how she looks, but think violet-blue eyes and short, wavy dark hair that falls in her eyes sometimes:
http://www.brownsteins.net/Ulpan/Images/Lauren%20Bacall.jpg

http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/personalidades/atores/lauren-bacall/lauren-bacall03.jpg

AH!! excitement, happiness, joy! :) Thanx Rian!

RÃan

09-14-2005, 03:34 PM

Lotesse - it works for you, but not for me...

I quoted your post to see how you did it, and you apparently did it through editpost, so it won't work with anyone but you because we don't have privilege to edit your posts. But it's very close - just change a coupla things and you're there! Quote my post #483 again if you want to see the format.

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 03:43 PM

Aw, rats. Now I'm feeling dumb. Well you guys, it's on pg. 12, post #224. My brain hurts right now; I'll try this again later.

*tried it again* Does it work now?

RÃan

09-14-2005, 03:51 PM

eptld [rtgrvy;u@@

*moves her hands over one key to the left*

works perfectly!!

Congrats, you're now a certified post linker! *hands Lotesse a cool certificate*

Gordis

09-14-2005, 03:58 PM

(hey, gordis just hit 500 posts and is now an Elf Lord - congrats, gordis! Will you choose a custom title?)

Thanks Rian and Lotesse! You have noticed it before me. So I did it!!! I will get rid of this "Elf" in my title at last!

What should I choose? "Seven of the Nine?"
Any ideas??

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 04:03 PM

Hmmm, I don't know. Something that refers to powerful women in the profession of wraithdom, that's for sure. ;)

Earniel

09-14-2005, 04:04 PM

There, I've rounded up most descriptions and characters I could find. Only Crazysquirrel and Lotesse have a complete character description. Where I could not find a description at all I used the first post about that character in the game thread. I hope this at least will end some confusion about characters. Those that haven't got a character-description and wish to insert one, feel free to edit a post accordingly or post a new one.

EXAMPLE:

Players and characters
CrazySquirrel: Lilaenwen (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484582&postcount=102) (Lilly)
Grey_wolf: Pengolod (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484738&postcount=123)(Penny/Five)
Telcontar_Dunedain: Galadannun (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484738&postcount=123) (KhÃ¢mul)
Lotesse: Viniglaen (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=485483&postcount=224) (Viv)
Butterbeer: Undead butterfly (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484403&postcount=87) and Widow (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=485676&postcount=46)
Witch-King of Angmar (?): Witch-king (?)
Gordis: Aiwendis
RÃ*an: RÃ*an (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=485442&postcount=38)
The Last sane person: Marthalion and Raendil (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484691&postcount=13) (Marty and Ray)
Valandil: Valandil (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=483481&postcount=34)
EÃ¤rniel: EÃ¤rniel (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=484399&postcount=5)

AndÃºril: yet to be decided

Public characters
Arch-Chancellor (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=485442&postcount=38 )
Annawen (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showpost.php?p=485547&postcount=43)

EDIT: Oh, and do correct me if I've made mistakes in this summary.

RÃan

09-14-2005, 04:07 PM

Thanks Rian and Lotesse! You have noticed it before me. So I did it!!! I will get rid of this "Elf" in my title at last! Hey, what's wrong with "Elf", buster?! ;)

What should I choose? "Seven of the Nine?"
Any ideas??If you don't mind the Star Trek association that goes along with that, then that would be fine. If you don't want Star Trek associations, you could do something like "Nazgul #7". If you like the shipbuilder association and want to allude to his being a Nazzy, you could do "Tar-Ciryatan : number 7 of 9". What themes do you want to highlight the most? (and you can always change it, too!)

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 04:24 PM

BB, can you please make some room in your PM box? thanx

Earniel - I believe Gordis has Arch-Chancellor, so he wouldn't be a public character...

Gordis

09-14-2005, 04:27 PM

If you like the shipbuilder association and want to allude to his being a Nazzy, you could do "Tar-Ciryatan : number 7 of 9". What themes do you want to highlight the most? (and you can always change it, too!)
My, Rian! The Chancellor is OF COURSE the Witch King! Wasn't that clear?

He has nothing (well almost nothing) to do with Gordis. Apart that the rpg-Gor is to be his "daughter" Aiwendis. I can mind the Chancellor for a time, before we will find someone to play him. And someone mighty good at it, otherwise, no.

As for the WK-mooter who has started this thread, he never shows his face here, though he is often at the moot. I don't think he will ever play here, I believe he will be out of his depth in this RPG, he just wanted to organise a nazgul-groop at the Moot. Or so I see it.

Hey, what's wrong with "Elf", buster?! ;)
Oh, they smell funny
:p

Butterbeer

09-14-2005, 04:32 PM

EDIT:

;)

i predict some posters below will make some obscure references to this enigmatic post :D :p ;)

beat BB :)

Gordis

09-14-2005, 04:33 PM

I can't post info for Gordis-Aiwendis before she appears. Wait a little, please.

Lotesse

09-14-2005, 04:36 PM

BB, calm down, silly goose!! It happens a lot here, just because there's so much going on in this rpg, and so many people are on board. Don't be so mad! Nobody's ignoring you! Want a valium? Here, you can have one of mine.

O.K. you guys, here's BB's post what got buried a few pages back -

"Sauron's balls!" *Grabs SUPER SHELOB Stun gun and whole bunch of Sir Doc GW's new-to-market 'chill pills' coming in both Elven, Nazgul and other flavours and Joins the Shah to help police 'THE THIRD WAY' .

Actually there shouldn't be too much to trouble in there (why do you think i volunteered for the job? :D ) because it will be a core of easy to assilimate information and then just a post or two from me! ;)

Once it has the core outlines, bio and rules of engagment, only the very odd concise update need be added... rather like this thread :p (kidding of course)

besides with Shah and me (if he'll take me on to the force, mind?? - I'll call you Guv' if you like ... have you seen the Sweeney? ) patrolling the mean streets...or the street (the THIRD way) or at least having a tharbad donut equivalant or three wth some coffee and putting our feet up ready to spring to action ... when the bar opens ... ahem i digress ... heh don't ask this officer of the peace for directions ...

anyway with the Shah (the Guv) and BB (to be confirmed on the force following Shah's lengthy and exhaustive character check etc ... ??? "you in?" ... "ok" ??? - these initiation ceremonies can be so formal and lengthy! and that cuts down real police time supporting the bars and food establishments of the street) i'm sure our heady mix of Dutch bandero chilled out "no problem" policing style where a friendly smile, a laugh and a joke keep the third way chilled - and our no-nonsense stun and chill SAS style rapid response elite tactics division (that's also Shah and BB(pending ...) will ENSURE there's no trouble on the Street!

(my god, The Street ... sounds like an RPG already .... don't worry Valandil and Earniel, it WON'T BE :p )

Sorry Lief ... not really up on all this ... which post? what number was it?

...........................

Right i guess i will have to curtail my many other points as they would probably take 2 pages or so ...

with regard to the bigger issues:

here would be my rules:
1]Other issues or flames in the rpg arena

if anyone wants to put this rpg in threat by continous actions (rather than just a one-off incident which is different to my mind ..and can happen easily to anyone) whatever the rights or wrongs of it .... any person threatens this rpg with closure they should either take a 24 or 48 hr rest period (their choice) from both the rpg and discussion threads till they have either calmed it down, sorted it out or agreed with whomever that whatever else may happen it in NO WAY enters THIS thread.

AGREED?

I.e. keep it out of here: this is an rpg nothing else: we have imaginary characters... so imagine your character likes the other character :D

2. new characters
Two main points here,

2.a exisiting rpg players, helping out new characters: the basic guidelines

all rpg players should agree to give new characters some leeway when they first start posting in an established and complex rpg ... give them some help, support and encouragment: if they really are causing mayhem then politely ask them to edit: if they then do edit and are willing to be team players then great! If not then of course it will need to be looked at. But they must be given a chance to fit in and a chance to edit.

2.b What existing RPG players can expect from new players: new player guidelines

Similarly, existing RPG players should have the right to expect new players have read all or at least a fair amount of start, middle and end of the rpg (depending on it's size at that point) and have a feel for how it is played.

(personally this is something i always do: if you are interested then you will do it, if you are not going to be interested you will not. e.g. Rian made 15 pages of notes or something! It took me ages reading Drunken elf pirates discussion ... mind you i learnt all about it (at least how it was played and what people thought and interacted to discuss things etc, having never actually read the rpg itself ...)

There should be no hard and fast on just how much new players have read, provided they have a half decent grounding and are willing to catch up PROVIDED of course they are willing to edit posts that may cause problems ... but this would then work heavily in conjunction with BB edict ( :D ) 2.a above: it's a two-way thing here.

New players should have read some of the start and end (minimum) of the discussion threads and ideally ask some questions about their intended characters in the discussion thread .. so they are welcomed in rather than become a bolt out of the blue! They should consider the implications of their characters actions or general posts on the plot, balance and direction of the rpg and other chararcters too ... unless they are GM (Games master) then they should consult in terms of any major new directions. We are all friendly here (really! most of the time :D ) and new ideas are always welcome and make an rpg what it is!

3 Donughts
Each rpg player shall contribute a donught tax towards the upkeep of the street's (the third way) police force ... one doghnut a week will suffice to keep the peace ... this can be done in the teacup cafe and you can pay for a years fun and friendly policing at one time! :D

.................................................. ......................................

Finally, i was sad to see that Lief left, that a stupid argument brewed up - though i go on record here and now i COULD understand why it did ... but Lief should have been given a fairer chance to edit and fit in ... and he did want to! ... mistakes were made all round, it happens! ... and unfortunately it HAS.

But for my part i liked all the mooters involved :) and still do.
SO can we all now move on and start interacting with butterflies!

best all
BB :)