Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

[Rûdhaglarien]

Well... most of you probably know, the release date is July 16, 2005. You also probably know that J.K. has proclaimed that another major character is going to be killed off. Just for the fun of it, I thought that maybe we could toss around some predictions as to who it might be. (Since my family and I are going to be debating it until the day the book comes out.)

First, let me just say that, after killing off one of my two favourite characters in OotP, she'd better not kill of Lupin in this one.

Now, I think that the character could be someone like one of the Weasleys, a rather innocent character. My Grandmother (who is just as into the books as I am) seems to think that maybe Percy could be trying to redeem himself by saving someone else's life with his. I don't particularly agree, but that's because I can't stand Percy.

My father, on the other hand "has his money on Dumbledore." I don't think, however, that J.K. would kill him off just yet, would she? I mean, she could, but then the last book would be almost completely pointless, considering good ol' Voldie could probably just walk into Hogwarts and kill 'em all off, eh?

Well, there's my two bits for this early morn'. Comments, thoughts?

[inked]

Rhudhaglarien,

I must say that thy Dad and me, we agree! :)
Dumbledore it MUST be! :(
Only then can JKR King crown Harry! :)
Who leads the OoTP, reclaiming Sovereignty! :D
From Voldemort, half-blood principality, :confused:
Usurper, governing malignantly! :evil:
'Til Harry redeems wizardry - :cool:
Fitting end to this septology! :eek:

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think it could be Percy for the reason your grandmother said. I think Dunbledore will die in the last book.

[Nurvingiel]

Great poem Inked! But I think Rûdhaglarien is right. If Voldemort was dead Harry would be screwed! Think of how many times Dumbledore has saved him. The prophecy might be about Harry, and though he is brave, talented at magic, and lucky, he's still no match for Voldemort, a powerful and unscrupulous veteran of magical wars.

[Minielin]

Only then can JKR King crown Harry! :)
Who leads the OoTP, reclaiming Sovereignty! :D
I don't think JKR will ever have Harry leading the OotP. Dumbledore's not going to die until the last book... and I agree, Rudh, if JKR kills off Lupin I'll have a conniption or something. I'm thinking one of the Weasleys. I really, really hope it's not one of the twins. That'd be too terrible.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think it could be Snape. Either him or Percy. If Snape dies I think he will die saving Harry from Voldemort, or Voldemort will ind out that Snape is ndercovver for the OotP.

[Elf Girl]

I'm SURE it's Victor Krum. He has to get out of the way so Ron and Hermione can get together. He's a good guy and totally dedicated to her,so he can't dump her or turn to the Dark Arts, so he has to die. It'll be a noble death, possibly defending Hermione.

[Manveru]

it'll be Harry :p :D

[Rûdhaglarien]

I don't think JKR will ever have Harry leading the OotP. Dumbledore's not going to die until the last book... and I agree, Rudh, if JKR kills off Lupin I'll have a conniption or something. I'm thinking one of the Weasleys. I really, really hope it's not one of the twins. That'd be too terrible.

Yeah... Dumbledore is definitely gone the last book, though, and one of my friends even has this entire plan where Harry must die in order to kill Voldemort. See, her theory (parody?) is this: Harry's scar is like the One Ring, and Voldemort is drawing power from it just as Sauron did from the Ring, so Harry must be destroyed in order to kill Voldemort. I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd be upset. :(

I hope that it's not one of the twins either! But, it could be. I mean, think about it, they may goof off most of the time, but they're completely dedicated to their family and friends, I wouldn't put it past them to go down defending Harry or something.

[Nurvingiel]

it'll be Harry :p :D
lol!! :D

JKR: I lied, it's a six book series. Sukkahs!! *evil chortling*

And anguished cries of "Nooooooo" can be heard around the globe...

I don't usually make death predictions, but I will be choked if Neville, George, Fred, Ron, Dumbledore, or Hermione dies. :mad: :(

[sirigorn]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

lol! :D

Anyway, I highly doubt that Hermione'll go down. Ron I think is likely, as is Dumbledore and Harry. The rest of the Weasleys are also likely, I think, especially Bill, Charlie, Arthur and Molly, since they're the most likely to be in trouble or hurt, being in the Order, or Fred or George.

[Minielin]

The rest of the Weasleys are also likely, I think, especially Bill, Charlie, Arthur and Molly, since they're the most likely to be in trouble or hurt, being in the Order. Yes, my bets are on one of them (most likely not Molly... though that'd be an interesting twist.)

[BeardofPants]

I reckon that it may be someone from the order, like maybe Tonks or something. Perhaps Moody.

Btw, I correctly predicted Sirius last time. :D

[Minielin]

I reckon that it may be someone from the order, like maybe Tonks or something. Perhaps Moody. Tonks, maybe... but I don't think Moody. Not yet, anyway. I'm betting there's more to come about him- he's just the type that could have a lot more character expansion and background history. JKR hasn't really dug into that yet, and it seems like she's setting him up for it. But maybe that's just me...

[BeardofPants]

You could be right... However, it always felt the same for Sirius as well.

I haven't read any of the interviews, but does the person that dies have to be good? I'm wondering if maybe it could be wormtail?

[Minielin]

I haven't read any of the interviews, but does the person that dies have to be good? I'm wondering if maybe it could be wormtail? That's certainly possible, especially since she said, I think, that we would see him in the sixth book. When she says "someone dies" I think it is a tendency that I, at least, have to assume that it's a good guy. ;)

[sirigorn]

That's what I think, too.... we wouldn't complain or be sad if it was a bad guy. I for one am hoping for a) Wormtail or b) Bellatrix.

Moody is likely, I think. I don't know why, really... but I think that he's getting so old, he might be losing his touch, and you can't expect to be unscathed after spending 10 months in a trunk, stunned. It most likely slowed him down. Tonks is possible, but I hope not.

Okay, maybe not Molly...

[Minielin]

That's what I think, too.... we wouldn't complain or be sad if it was a bad guy. I for one am hoping for a) Wormtail or b) Bellatrix. I'll go with that... death to Bellatrix! ;)

[Radagast The Brown]

Is Bellatrix a major character though? I don't tihnk so... she doesn't do much in any of the books. And in the fourth, didn't Crouch torture the Longbottoms? Why did Rowling change it to Bellatrix? :confused:

[Minielin]

There were four accused/convicted of torturing the Longbottoms... Bellatrix, husband & brother (the Lestranges) and Crouch Jr.

[Radagast The Brown]

There were four accused/convicted of torturing the Longbottoms... Bellatrix, husband & brother (the Lestranges) and Crouch Jr.I thought that was it, just don't remember ever reading about it. You see... it's said they were young, and I thought Bellatrix was about 40.. But she was, I guess in the age of Sirius, and he was young back then.

Ok. Thanks. :)

[Sween]

i think the half half blood prince could be Gilderoy Lockhart could be the half blood prince just reading the name orgins the 'roy' part of Gildroy means regal one or king. JK is very clever (or not so clever for anyone who knows latin and probably can see all plot points before they finish the book) in hideing important clues in every characters name pretty much expect the lead ones i could be wrong but no one else seems to of made this connection. Plus why introduce him in OoTP if he had no further part to play!

[Minielin]

i think the half half blood prince could be Gilderoy Lockhart could be the half blood prince just reading the name orgins the 'roy' part of Gildroy means regal one or king. Gilderoy is probably Gild + roy (roi) to mean ornamented/decorous king (putting one in mind of the lavish Louis XIV of France, "le sol-roi" or sun king), but the name (I'm guessing) probably refers more to his celebrity status and ostentatiousness than anything.

Plus why introduce him in OoTP if he had no further part to play! He probably does have a further part to play, though it might be argued that his purpose in OOTP was simply to drag the gang in to have the chance to see Neville's parents...

[inked]

Minielin,

I concur with your statements. As to GL - think "all that glitters is not gold" and you have the measure of the man, alas, in his entirety! He had a purely perfunctory role as you note in OotP.

[Elf Girl]

I think the half blood prince is a new character, because the titles of the books tend to introduce new ideas. Look-

Philosopher's Stone- not mentioned before, since there were no previous books.
Chamber of Secrets- wasn't mentioned before the book came out.
Prisoner of Azkaban- not only did we have no idea who the prisoner was, it turned out to be someone we hadn't seen yet. (He was mentioned briefly in PS, but I think he was still a new character.)
Goblet of Fire- again, the Goblet wasn't mentioned before the book itself came out.
Order of the Phoenix- It hadn't been mentioned before- Dumbledore simply referred to 'the old crowd.'

So, since none of the other title elements was known before the book was published, I don't think we have yet met the Half-Blood Prince.

[Minielin]

I think the half blood prince is a new character, because the titles of the books tend to introduce new ideas. I think so too. :)

[ItalianLegolas]

does anyone know the exact date when its coming out??

what if the half-blood prince is harry? although that wouldn't make much sense because its harry potter and the half-blood prince. which seems to suggest they are two different entities.

[sirigorn]

July 16, 2005. :D

And it's not Harry. Jo said so. She also said it's not Voldie or Tom Riddle, who some people consider to be different people. And there are rumors going around that she said that Hagrid isn't either, but it hasn't been confirmed.

[ItalianLegolas]

HAGRID? A PRINCE? that would be funny.

[Pytt]

Hagrid? who have even thought of that? But I suppose it isn't that far of. after all he is of half blood :o anyway, I CAN'T WAIT until it comes :D

[ItalianLegolas]

maybe its malfoy, and hes like, a demonic prince! :evil:

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

I think J.K is missleading all of her readers. (purposfully and properly mind you.) I think that the book will start out with a discovery that there is a half blood prince and throught the book the identity will be searched out. After a while they will learn they were mistaken, its nto a half blood prince, its a half blood princess... Hermoine(SP?) She is a "mug blood"(or is she) and yet she is the greatest witch of her time. Thats the story I am going with. Malfoy is to obvious after harry and voldy.

[ItalianLegolas]

that is a very convoluted idea HotD, so convolted, it just might work... No but seriously, the way that J.K. works, anything is possible

[Sween]

I think J.K is missleading all of her readers. (purposfully and properly mind you.) I think that the book will start out with a discovery that there is a half blood prince and throught the book the identity will be searched out. After a while they will learn they were mistaken, its nto a half blood prince, its a half blood princess... Hermoine(SP?) She is a "mug blood"(or is she) and yet she is the greatest witch of her time. Thats the story I am going with. Malfoy is to obvious after harry and voldy.

Surely it would then of been called 'Harry and the Half Blood Princess'

[ItalianLegolas]

no, because that wouldn't be misleading

[Radagast The Brown]

I disagree, doesn't make sense it's Hermione. First, it is 'Prince', so unless they think there's a Prince in the beginning, it can't be Hermione. Second - I agree with Elf Girl, a few posts before - it most likely someone we haven't met yet, and there's no way to know who it is. Because he wasn't mentioned (as all the other themes in the Harry Potter series till now).

[ItalianLegolas]

now i'm confused, i don't know what to think!

[Nurvingiel]

Yes, "Prince" does imply dude. Hermione is an interesting theory, but she's not half-blooded in anything. Neither is Malfoy.

Now that someone has said it, I think it most likely is Hagrid - a half-giant. A new character is very possible too.

[Manveru]

I disagree, doesn't make sense it's Hermione. First, it is 'Prince', so unless they think there's a Prince in the beginning, it can't be Hermione.

maybe hermione gets a sex change?

[ItalianLegolas]

this is a children's book were talking about here

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think it is quite likely that the HBP will be the new DADA teacher.

[ItalianLegolas]

hmmm... yes, yes, YES!! ITS INGENIUS!! GENIUS I SAY!! does anyone know why J.K. feels the urge to make every DADA teacher get canned after their first year?

[Nurvingiel]

hmmm... yes, yes, YES!! ITS INGENIUS!! GENIUS I SAY!! does anyone know why J.K. feels the urge to make every DADA teacher get canned after their first year?
Because it annoys Snape? :D

I'd like to see the new teacher be a new Potions master, and Snape finally get the DADA position. Harry would really be choked though - that's his favourite subject.

[BeardofPants]

Because it annoys Snape? :D

Bothering snape>? (http://www.luckystarscattery.com/Potter.swf)

[Elemmírë]

Because it annoys Snape? :D

I'd like to see the new teacher be a new Potions master, and Snape finally get the DADA position. Harry would really be choked though - that's his favourite subject.

I don't think Snape could be worse than the last one... Even for Harry. More odious, surely, but at least he should (theoretically) be pretty good...

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah, Umbridge outdid even Snape in the unfair department. I think Snape would really be able to teach them something, now that he's not just trying to get them to realize that Lupin is a werewolf.

[ItalianLegolas]

True, but even if he does get the position, I'll still have a profound dis-like for him

[EarthBound]

Ahh! I love Snape, for me--he's the bad guy that you hope turns out to be the good guy --type.

In fact, I hope Snape and Potter learn to get along at some point. Just my own bizzar wish.

He'd make a great DADA teacher, remember his duel with pretty boy? LOL :p

[ItalianLegolas]

if they learn to get along with each otehr I would shoot myself, in the foot of course, with a water gun.

[Pytt]

if they learn to get along with each otehr I would shoot myself, in the foot of course, with a water gun.

By shock, or by anger? I too hope they can get along, to help out with the whole Order thing, and I think they could gain on it, both of them. But I'sppose it never will happen anyway.

[EarthBound]

Hmm...I think they could learn to get along...there's an old hatchet to be buried between Snape and Harry's God Father (and his dad, too). I suspect Snape got a rotten turn from Harry's father on more than one occasion (no one is perfect, and it's boring) and though he's a git himself, I'm under the impression that Snapes dark past is not of his choosing but rather a defense that could be won through. If ever Harry and Snape would let their guard down a minute with each other . . . Perhaps I like Allan Rickman too much to see him in a bad light...LOL :D :p

[Tessar]

Snape ROCKS.

I think Harry is actually going to start treating him a little differently now that he knows more about the way his father treated Snape.

I feel sorry for poor Snapie-poo :(.

[Lief Erikson]

Snape ROCKS.

I think Harry is actually going to start treating him a little differently now that he knows more about the way his father treated Snape.

I feel sorry for poor Snapie-poo :(.
Astoundingly enough, it sounded from the ending encounter they had in book 5 as though Harry was madder at Snape then ever.

[EarthBound]

Snape and Harry ... Yeah, Harry is as mad as ever, but the waters have been muddied for him, he's not as certain about some things. His ever perfect Right & Wrong meter is confused about his father's bully-like behaivor with Snape and Snapes horrible childhood memiors might have touched him a bit.....it's all speculation and hopefulness anyway....we'll just have to wait and see (or rather read...then see) :rolleyes: :p

[sun-star]

Yeah, he's just blaming Snape for everything so that he doesn't have to blame himself/Dumbledore/Sirius/his dad. They'll probably have to be reconciled in the next books.

(But I don't care if Harry hates Snape for ever - I can't stand him either :D)

[Nurvingiel]

I love Snape! *hugs Snape* *gets hexed*

I think he and Harry are both being a bit silly with this rivalry. Half the reason Snape hates Harry is because of James, and various scenes in OotP especially showed how different they were. It seems now the only thing they have in common is looks.
Harry can be a prat to Snape at times, but I do think Snape is more guilty in that department. He does unreasonably persecute everyone in Gryffindor, but I suspect that this is to add to his cover so he can gain Malfoy's confidence and spy for the Order.
As for their rivalry, Snape is supposed to be mature as the adult of the situation, and I suspect they will need to make peace (or at least not be at each other's throats) in order to further their cause of defeating Voldemort.

[The Wizard from Milan]

lol!! :D

JKR: I lied, it's a six book series. Sukkahs!! *evil chortling*

And anguished cries of "Nooooooo" can be heard around the globe...

Well, Harry could die in book six and the series could remain a septology, the last book would be "Neville Longbottom and ..." :D

[Minielin]

About this Felix Felicis bit... I'm becoming increasingly fond of the theory that the description excerpt about Felix Felicis, as opposed to my previous favorite that Felix is a spell or plant etc. From the excerpt:
He looked rather like an old lion. Knowing JKR, does Felix Felicis put anyone else in mind of "feline"? Another possible root, of course, would be in "felicity".

[inked]

Snape and Harry ... Yeah, Harry is as mad as ever, but the waters have been muddied for him, he's not as certain about some things. His ever perfect Right & Wrong meter is confused about his father's bully-like behaivor with Snape and Snapes horrible childhood memiors might have touched him a bit.....it's all speculation and hopefulness anyway....we'll just have to wait and see (or rather read...then see) :rolleyes: :p

Earthbound, it's not really Harry's meter of R & W that is confused. It is actually registering correctly about his fathers' behaviour. It is Harry's idealization of his father that is in jeopardy...you know, that awful moment of realization that our parents are NOT perfect and god-like but mere humans! And that takes awhile to sink in!

This is one of the best moments in the septology and JKR's writing, IMHO.

[Fat middle]

About this Felix Felicis bit... I'm becoming increasingly fond of the theory that the description excerpt about Felix Felicis, as opposed to my previous favorite that Felix is a spell or plant etc. From the excerpt:
Knowing JKR, does Felix Felicis put anyone else in mind of "feline"? Another possible root, of course, would be in "felicity".
It sounds more as felicity than felline.

[Elanor the hobbit]

Here's a weird theory: Could felix felicis be a spell, rather than a person? If so, there's a possibility it could be the incantation for the cheering charm. Personally, I think it's most likely a person, who I think is most likely the DADA teacher. If so, he's a very happy one :D, at least if his name fits his personality as with so many HP characters. It's about time they had a nice DADA teacher!

[Minielin]

Here's a weird theory: Could felix felicis be a spell, rather than a person? Well, as I think I mentioned, that was my original theory. At this point, however, I'm just saying the fact that Felix is an actual name is supplanting it.

[Fat middle]

Well, as I think I mentioned, that was my original theory. At this point, however, I'm just saying the fact that Felix is an actual name is supplanting it.
Sorry, but I think I'm lost here: where does that Felex felicis stuff come from? is it explained in another thread? :confused:

[sun-star]

There was a thread on it a while ago - according to JKR "Felix felicis" is the name of one of the chapters in the 6th book. I still think that Felix is the name of a person and felicis is a spell or description of that person (i.e. I'm still saying it's like "Dudley Demented"... :D).

[Pytt]

The name Felix Felicis was published on Jks own site, behind the secret door. We got three chapter names, and Felix Felicis was one of them.
I think it is a person, rather than a spell.

[Nurvingiel]

It's about time they had a nice DADA teacher!
What about Professor Lupin! He was by far the best DADA teacher they had.

[Fat middle]

Thank you pytt and sun-star :)

[Finrod Felagund]

My money's on Hagrid!

[sun-star]

I heard a theory that it might be Godric Gryffindor or Salazar Slytherin, since Book 6 apparently has some connection to Book 2.

[EarthBound]

What about Professor Lupin! He was by far the best DADA teacher they had.

Cheers and all that! Lupin is our guy for teacher of the century! :cool:

[sun-star]

Seen these? Half-Blood Prince book covers!

British children's edition (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/images/2005/03/childhbpbloomsbury.html)

British adult edition (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/images/2005/03/adulthbpbloomsbury.html)

American edition (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/images/2005/03/scholhbpcover.jpg)

I like the British adult one best. Hmm, Advanced Potion making...

[Fat middle]

Do you thin it is a pensieve that in the american edition?

[Nurvingiel]

I think that is a Penseive FM. I like the Children's edition the best, except why doesn't Harry have black hair? :mad: Or is that just the sun shining in my monitor..?

I heard a theory that it might be Godric Gryffindor or Salazar Slytherin, since Book 6 apparently has some connection to Book 2.
I think this comes from the fact that book 2 was originally going to be titled "Hp and the half-blood prince", but JK Rowling scrapped that idea as well as the whole original plotline for book 2 - I guess she has taken it up now with book six. So technically it's not a spin-off. :) This is on the official site if I'm paraphrasing it correctly.

Also, I strongly doubt that Salazar Slytherin is a half-blood, given his apparent attitude. :)

Godric Gryffindor is a very interesting possibility though.

[ItalianLegolas]

I think that is a Penseive FM. I like the Children's edition the best, except why doesn't Harry have black hair? :mad: Or is that just the sun shining in my monitor..?

Yes, i think that is the sun in your monitor Nurv, it looks black to me... question. How come Americans like me always get the cruddy editions of HP books? The British childrens cover is so much cooler then the American one!! :mad:

[IronParrot]

That's the great thing about living in Canada: British editions of Harry Potter.

Advanced Potion-Making... interesting. There's little escaping Snape, that's for sure - though I do wonder what will happen with Harry's Occlumency tutelage. Get those two in a room and a great scene ensues.

Judging by the other two covers I have a feeling Dumbledore isn't going to be nearly as detached from Harry as he was in Phoenix, but this is just a confirmation of what was already implied in the last book - that ultimately, Dumbledore saw his distancing himself from Harry for his own protection as a mistake (if I remember correctly).

[inked]

Nurv,

there is much at JK Rowling's site in the extra section on the chapter under discussion for opening 3 prior books and now truly in HP&HBP!

And, if you would like, the hp-lexicon.org has a quote section in the upper header which will allow you to access specific material on this (I'd cite it but I don't want to deprive you of the fun! ;) )

I am currently puzzling over the identity of the HBP whom I am convinced we have met in an earlier work!

[Minielin]

I am currently puzzling over the identity of the HBP whom I am convinced we have met in an earlier work! What are your theories so far?

[inked]

Books 2 and 6 are related per JKR. I'm leaning towards Colin Creevy, actually. He appears to be house-elf in part. There were hints to that effect. And recall that Dobby handled Lucius Malfoy quite handily at the close of CoS. This is purest speculation on my part. But JKR has demonstrated in each book that the end is in the beginning. Applying that principle to the whole story (of which each episode has been an integral part and stand-alone narrative), I think we must have met the HBP. Colin is a very unlikely candidate but that makes him...very likely, IMHO.

We shall see. I do reserve the right to change my opinion for I freely admit I am puzzling over the matter. In my experience of crosswords and novels, I admit to mistakes and my share of red herring as well as crow! :eek:

[Fat middle]

Books 2 and 6 are related per JKR. I'm leaning towards Colin Creevy, actually. He appears to be house-elf in part. There were hints to that effect. And recall that Dobby handled Lucius Malfoy quite handily at the close of CoS. This is purest speculation on my part. But JKR has demonstrated in each book that the end is in the beginning. Applying that principle to the whole story (of which each episode has been an integral part and stand-alone narrative), I think we must have met the HBP. Colin is a very unlikely candidate but that makes him...very likely, IMHO.

We shall see. I do reserve the right to change my opinion for I freely admit I am puzzling over the matter. In my experience of crosswords and novels, I admit to mistakes and my share of red herring as well as crow! :eek:
Hey! I liked that theory. It's probably absurd but it has some JKR-feeling at the same time ;)

[Pytt]

Yes. Nice theory Inked. I haven't noticed that about the end is in the beginning before, but as you say it, I remember it is so. :)

[Lief Erikson]

This is an empty, tedious post.

[Lief Erikson]

Also, I strongly doubt that Salazar Slytherin is a half-blood, given his apparent attitude.

Voldemort is a half blood himself, with a Muggle parent, yet he seems to be strong on the pure-blood philosophy. Adolf Hitler was similar. By some of his more extreme laws against people of Jewish heritage, he should have gone to the concentration camp himself! :eek:

However, I agree with you that Salazar is an unlikely choice. I think it might be a tad boring having him the half-blood prince . . . that's my reason :p .


I like the British Children's cover best too. It's very cool :).

[inked]

Here is a link to JKR's site in regard to blood relations and their unintended similarity to the actual Nazi usage:

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=58

Art imitating life, but so as to prevent recurrence!

[Nurvingiel]

Voldemort is a half blood himself, with a Muggle parent, yet he seems to be strong on the pure-blood philosophy. Adolf Hitler was similar. By some of his more extreme laws against people of Jewish heritage, he should have gone to the concentration camp himself! :eek:
This occured to me later. Heh. I like your reason better anyway.

However, I agree with you that Salazar is an unlikely choice. I think it might be a tad boring having him the half-blood prince . . . that's my reason :p .

I like the British Children's cover best too. It's very cool :).
JK Rowling. Un-boring. :D

EDIT: I also think it won't be someone who's long dead. We have many good possibilities from the living characters.

[strider8]

I think that Lupin will die and Harry will feel like there's nothing left to live for.

[inked]

Here's another idea for the HBP. What do you think of this idea?

[Fat middle]

Here's another idea for the HBP. What do you think of this idea?
huh? :confused:

[Pytt]

Can't say I see your that idea of yours inked...

[Nurvingiel]

I think that Lupin will die and Harry will feel like there's nothing left to live for.
That's just too depressing... :(


What was your idea Inked? :)

[inked]

Apparently one does have neuronal dislocations at the approach of the 50th anniversary of one's being pushed out into the cold, cruel world! :rolleyes:

the link to have been posted was:

http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/home.php?page=docs/half_blood_prince

Take heart, ya'll, it's probably just half-heimer's instead of al-tzheimers's :p !

[Thraxon]

how about they kill off the entire ****ing cast there books suck and jk rowling coppies so much off lotr eg the dimentors are clearly a take off of the nazguel

[Radagast The Brown]

how about they kill off the entire ****ing cast there books suck and jk rowling coppies so much off lotr eg the dimentors are clearly a take off of the nazguelNot really, I don't think... and it really doesn't matter. (how hard can it be to think of dark creatures in black hoods that make people fear? :p)

There's a whole thread about it, anyway. :) (just search)

[Small No-name]

I really dislike harry potter :cool:

[Thraxon]

point taken but uh radigast what is your pic is that a pear with a face on it?

[Radagast The Brown]

point taken but uh radigast what is your pic is that a pear with a face on it?Actually - a pomelo. :p Isn't it the best? :cool:

Anyway.. these kind of comversations usually go to private messages, or the 'Teacup Cafe' thread. :)

[Thraxon]

lookes like a pear to me

[Nurvingiel]

how about they kill off the entire ****ing cast there books suck and jk rowling coppies so much off lotr eg the dimentors are clearly a take off of the nazguel
Yeah, Tolekeen would feel ripped off if he was still alive! :D ;)

I'm just joking with ya. ;) But anyway, it's fair enough to not like the books. But they aren't really all that close to LotR. Let's review:

Common points:
1. Protaganist is fated to destroy Dark Lord
2. There are undead beings in service of said Dark Lord
3. There is magic
4. Protaganist has best friends
5. Protaganist's parents died tragically when he was fairly young
6. Authoritative wizard figure

Differences between common points:
1. The nature of fate, and the nature of our two protagonists. I don't think I need to say much about the differences between a 50-year-old Hobbit of Middle-earth and an 11-year-old wizard boy.
2. The Nazgul were once Men and subverted with Rings of Power, while the Dementors, as far as we can tell, are naturally evil beings and allied to Voldemort because he would let them steal people's souls. The Nazgul, of course, do not steal people's souls.
3. The nature of magic
4. Sam, Merry, and Pippin are very different people than Ron and Hermione.
5. Drogo and Primula Baggins drowned by accident while Voldemort murdered Harry's parents. Despite this, Frodo had a very happy childhood with his kind uncle. Harry had a miserable childhood with his mean aunt and her family.
6. Gandalf and Dumbledore have authority for different reasons. Gandalf led the Fellowship because he was a wise and powerful Maia. It's worth noting he's one of five wizards in all of Middle-earth. Dumbledore has authority because he's a very powerful wizard, and the only one who can defeat Voldemort; he's also the school headmaster. Aragorn and Gandalf were both Sauron's enemy in different ways.

Complete differences between the books:

The plot
The Harry Potter series follows our hero through his years at a wizard boarding school while he narrowly avoids getting killed by the Dark Lord by sheer luck, handy plot devices, the help of loyal friends, or getting bailed out by Dumbledore.
Lord of the Rings follows Frodo Baggins's adventures after he inherits a Ring that turns you invisible that turns out to be the evil Ring of power belonging to Sauron. The only way to destroy him is to destroy the Ring.

The setting
Harry Potter is set in Britain in the 1990s in a school for young witches and wizards.

LotR is set in Middle-earth, an alternate history for Earth. Specific date not specified, but highly debated.


I'm glad you're posting in this forum because you're the first person in here to not like Harry Potter. I'm sure you'll add an interesting perspective.

There certainly are similarities between the two books, but I don't think enough to call Harry Potter a rip-off. I'm interested to hear your reasons why you think so. :)

EDIT: I see Small No-name is also not a fan. Any particular reason that Thraxon hasn't articulated? :)

[tolkienfan]

I reserved my copy yesterday at Barnes and Nobles! I know it might be a little early, but last time the store ran out and I had to wait for 2 WEEKS to get it. :mad:

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

how about they kill off the entire ****ing cast there books suck and jk rowling coppies so much off lotr eg the dimentors are clearly a take off of the nazguel
There's a thread here with a link wher someone wrote why HP was better than LotR. I think Pytt started the thread and Elemmire found the site. You should check it out.

EDIT: The site is here. (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0167260/board/thread/10318150)

[Spock]

IMO, they are two different genres with similarities I don't care to debate. I enjoy each one as a distinct tale and effort and find I enjoy reading much more. After all "compare and contrast" went out in middle school. :D

[inked]

Nurv,

I AM IMPRESSED!!!!

Forestry is doing you good, girl! Excellent exposition above! :D

[Nurvingiel]

Thanks Inked! :D :o

There's a thread here with a link wher someone wrote why HP was better than LotR. I think Pytt started the thread and Elemmire found the site. You should check it out.

EDIT: The site is here. (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0167260/board/thread/10318150)
The original post was deleted by the poster, probably because the poster Edwyn Lilac destroyed the original arguments. Maybe they were preserved in that thread you mentioned.

You might also enjoy this thread: Blatant LotR Copy-Cats (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=11673). (I bumped it over in the Middle-earth forum). :)

Spock has a point (though this excercise can still be useful) - you can probably find similarities between every fantasy book and every other fantasy book. The question is, are they relevant? In the case of LotR versus Harry Potter, I would say no, at least from a copycat standpoint.

[strider8]

I think that Lupin will die and Harry will feel like there's nothing left to live for.

i think that Lupin will be killed by some type of relative named Romulos probobly a brother(Just like Roman Mythology) :D .

[emily leonard]

i think that nevil will destroy voldimort as to use the avrercadavera crse you need to have real emotion behind it nevil has had to wacth his parents liv in a mad state wherase harry can hardly remember his parents . i think that dumbuledore could turn evil and die in the last book :D

[Spock]

..wow, I hope you're wrong about D.

[emily leonard]

it would be a great story line! :D

[Spock]

I'm really fond of the character and his way of handling difficult times at Hogwarts. I think he's an excellent example to the students also and has more power than he reveals.

[emily leonard]

he is all of that but in the goblet of fire....... ( 'he said th protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it too and he was right he could touch me withought herting himself, he touched my face.' for a fleting second, Harry thought he saw a gleam of triumph in dumbledore's eye's.) dosent this segest that he mmay be tryamfont in voldimots sucsess?!? :p

[Nurvingiel]

I didn't read that part as Dumbledore feeling triumphant about Voldemort's success at all! :D Personally I think you're reading into it a little too much, but to each her own. :)

I'm really fond of the character and his way of handling difficult times at Hogwarts. I think he's an excellent example to the students also and has more power than he reveals.
Dumbledore certainly has his faults, but I definitely don't think he will turn evil. My main complaint with him is how much information he hid from Harry, apparently pointlessly.
I mean... his reason for not telling him about the Prophecy was because Harry already had enough to deal with. Well, I think Harry pretty much understood that it's kill or be killed with him and Voldemort. Of course they can't both remain alive in the same world forever - Voldemort tries one time per year to murder him! Harry would be much better served armed with all the knowledge possible. Voldemort has it, why not even the playing field? Besides, Harry has already dealt with so much crap that he could probably handle anything Dumbledore could throw at him.

My other issue with Dumbledore is the amount of unfairness he allows in the school. True, it's possible he's more occupied with keeping all his students from getting killed, so I'll cut him some slack here. But why is Snape allowed to be completely biased, and abuse Neville at every turn? This is intolerable in a teacher. Think of all the future Potions researchers/experts/specialists/etc. that have been turned away by non-Slytherins who can't help but loathe his class. When he deigns to teach non-Slytherins, he certainly seems like an extremely knowledgeable and capable teacher.

This is probably why he isn't allowed to teach the highly important subject of Defence against the Dark Arts, but then again, he really picked winners for that class (barring Lupin, who was awesome). I mean... Gilderoy Lockhart? Not one other person anywhere would take the job? I can accept that, but even Snape would have been a better teacher than him. At least Snape knows what he's doing.

Also, just because professor Binns continues to exist is not a good reason to keep him employed as the History teacher. Lille Vän, my houseplant, would do a better job. Seriously. At least people wouldn't associate history with stupefying boredom, and might do some research on their own - as everyone did on the Chamber of Secrets. Hogwarts students do seem to make themselves familiar with the library other times too.

Well that's my whole Dumbledore rant. I think he's awesome, a great leader and wizard, and a pretty good headmaster too. But he lets some things slide that I personally would not accept. His character is made that much more interesting by (what I perceive to be) these flaws.

[Spock]

Well thought out reasoning. IMO D protected H by not giving him all the information too early in his apprenticeship because he couldn't utilize all his powers ...he hadn't been schooled in them enough.

[emily leonard]

mabey your right about reading to much into it but i do think that it might meen sumthing . and dumboldore is a fab carrictor but he did anoy me when he told harry everything in 1 chapter :o

[Radagast The Brown]

Dumbledore certainly has his faults, but I definitely don't think he will turn evil. My main complaint with him is how much information he hid from Harry, apparently pointlessly.
I mean... his reason for not telling him about the Prophecy was because Harry already had enough to deal with. Well, I think Harry pretty much understood that it's kill or be killed with him and Voldemort. Of course they can't both remain alive in the same world forever - Voldemort tries one time per year to murder him! Harry would be much better served armed with all the knowledge possible. Voldemort has it, why not even the playing field? Besides, Harry has already dealt with so much crap that he could probably handle anything Dumbledore could throw at him. I really can't get this part. I mean, how's the prophecy more hard to deal with than that the most powerful wizard ever is after you? How is the prophecy harder? It just tells him what he knows - and it would prevent Sirius' death.
I can't really understand why Rowling had a prophecy in her books. Prophecies just ruin books IMO... and make Harry Potter more like others. I don't know.. I just really don't like it. Can't see how it made the book better anyway.. :confused:

[Spock]

Perhaps it's writers insights and though patterns that determines these things. These type of books, IMO, are not for debate, nor critical deconstruction. They simply are for enjoyment and to pique your curiosity.

[emily leonard]

i think your right you read this book for enjoyment not to question why its the way it is put together :)

[Manveru]

I can't really understand why Rowling had a prophecy in her books. Prophecies just ruin books IMO... and make Harry Potter more like others. I don't know.. I just really don't like it. Can't see how it made the book better anyway.. :confused:

prophecies dont ruin all books. The High King by Lloyd Alexander is an awesome book and it has a prophecy in it

[Radagast The Brown]

prophecies dont ruin all books. The High King by Lloyd Alexander is an awesome book and it has a prophecy in itMaybe I didn't say it clearly... didn't mean all books. Just that.. there are too many prophecies in books IMO, and adding one to Harry Potter doesn't really make the book better. In my opinino anyway.

[inked]

RtB,

But isn't this prophecy motif quite ancient in literature? JK Rowling is merely using a specific motif to engage the reader in seriously consideration of the personages of the story whe is writing. Certainly JRRT and CSL use this type of material, as well the ancients in Greece, Rome, and Germanic literatures.

Do you object to it in general or specifically how it is employed by Rowling? Hers, I admit, is more Delphic than perhaps either author I have mentioned.

[sun-star]

I think what Radagast is saying is that the prophecy in HP doesn't add anything to the book, and I agree with him. The prophecy didn't reveal anything Harry or the reader hadn't already guessed - Harry has to kill Voldemort. Prophecies in literature work best as foreshadowing (e.g. Macbeth) or as a statement of a fate which seems shocking and alien to the reader's expectations (e.g. Oedipus). Those are the only ways they can move the plot forward. The HP prophecy is simply expository backstory.

These type of books, IMO, are not for debate, nor critical deconstruction.

There's no such thing as a book which is not for critical deconstruction :D

[Spock]

There's no such thing as a book which is not for critical deconstruction :D[/QUOTE]

Only for deconstructionalists. :(

[inked]

I think what Radagast is saying is that the prophecy in HP doesn't add anything to the book, and I agree with him. The prophecy didn't reveal anything Harry or the reader hadn't already guessed - Harry has to kill Voldemort. Prophecies in literature work best as foreshadowing (e.g. Macbeth) or as a statement of a fate which seems shocking and alien to the reader's expectations (e.g. Oedipus). Those are the only ways they can move the plot forward. The HP prophecy is simply expository backstory.

There's no such thing as a book which is not for critical deconstruction :D

Sun-Star,

Oh, really! Then you assume that the prophecy intends only Harry? That is the mistake (?) Voldemort made, too. Except that Voldie actualized it by his choice of whom it referred to, didn't he (or did he?)? Recall that Voldemort's spy did not get the whole prophecy. And that Voldemort was himself so eager to get it all that the entire OOTP happened.

For further evaluation, we have JK Rowling's comments (credit to Quick Quotes):

1. J.K.Rowling Official Site - Harry Potter and more •••
...The prophecy Harry hears in Dumbledore's office suggests to me that both he and Voldemort will have to die, is that true? Both Madam Trelawney and I...
...Both Madam Trelawney and I worded the prophecy extremely carefully and that is all I have to say on the subject! ©2005 J.K. Rowling. All Rights Reser...
63% Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:28:13 GMT http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=23


2. J.K.Rowling Official Site - Harry Potter and more •••
...parents. I can’t say too much about this because it touches too closely on the prophecy and how many people knew about it, but the Lestranges were not i...
62% Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:29:39 GMT http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/rumours_view.cfm?id=25


3. Quick Quotes Quill: Interviews with J.K.Rowling, 2004 ••
JK Rowling's World Book Day Chat, March 4, 2004 JK Rowling says: Hi everyone, I'm here LIVE and ready to answer your questions!...
...starlinguk: Do you believe in prophecies in real life? JK Rowling replies -> No, I don't. And even in the wizarding world, as McGonagall explains in...
...JK Rowling replies -> Harry will tell his nearest and dearest about the prophecy when he's ready. He needs time to digest the news himself first....
51% Mon, 03 Jan 2005 06:30:39 GMT http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2004/0304-wbd.htm

Plus, when does the prophecy become active in regard to the action? It is a miniature prequel if you will. It is primarily Delphic in construction, it has many potential interpretations - corpus throughout. So, the motif is a dominant one in regard to plot construction. And there is the prophecy of the Centaurs, too............ :evil: ................ :D ..................... :p .

None of this strikes me as non-integral to the books individually nor the large story. And while it is expository back-story, it is more than that. I suspect that if you extracted the prophecy from the books and tried to read them without it, you would find the task most difficult and without a single binding thread of such importunance or importance.

So with King Arthur, so with Cair Paravel and its inhabitants, so with Aragorn.... :)

And I quite agree that there is no book to which critical deconstruction can not be applied, but would contend that it is valueless in most cases as the critics rarely accomplish much. (See THE PERSONAL HERESY by CS Lewis!)

[sun-star]

Oh, really! Then you assume that the prophecy intends only Harry?

I do. At the very most it includes both Harry and Neville, but I'm certain it doesn't exclude Harry - or we'd be dealing with some extremely bathos and anticlimax when Harry finally gears himself up to battle and discovers it was all a mistake...

Plus, when does the prophecy become active in regard to the action? It is a miniature prequel if you will. It is primarily Delphic in construction, it has many potential interpretations - corpus throughout.

We don't know when the prophecy will become important - it certainly isn't at present. It has different interpretations now (though not many) because the series is not complete. When the series is finished, the meaning of the prophecy will not be open to interpretation.

I suspect that if you extracted the prophecy from the books and tried to read them without it, you would find the task most difficult and without a single binding thread of such importunance or importance.

Perhaps when we have more of it, the prophecy will give us what it fundamentally lacks - a reason. What it says at present is:

The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... And the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...

What theme or 'single binding thread' does this illuminate? It's a vague nod to the 'chosen one' motif, but that's not a surprise in any novel with a single hero. It doesn't say why Harry is chosen, what the purpose of the battle is, why one of them must die... You could easily read the books without it as it now stands.

And I quite agree that there is no book to which critical deconstruction can not be applied, but would contend that it is valueless in most cases as the critics rarely accomplish much. (See THE PERSONAL HERESY by CS Lewis!)

Do you read much criticism yourself, apart from Lewis?

[inked]

Sorry to be so long in replying, Sun-Star, work et alia have limited my Mooting.

I have read quite a bit of criticism over the decades. Deconstructive techniques are but one form. We can discuss the various general techniques at your pleasure.

It is not that criticism is always wrong in any technique or not useful in its own peculiar fashion (depending on the assumptions), but rather my conviction that literature and poetry are meant to be enjoyed and may well be challenging or upsetting or conventional or otherwise. I think the work itself should be interacted with as whole as finished and presented by the author. That is what elicits response. And that response then becomes reflective and may move to a critical approach out of appreciation or revulsion or challenge to the reader's accepted thought patterns.

You may or may not have read Dorothy L. Sayers THE MIND OF THE MAKER (I cannot recall at present). I think it an excellent work of criticism in the most distant approach. Yes, I know that it to be an explanation of the Trinity by analogy, but it throws quite considerable light on the author as vehicle through which comes the finished product. And I came to this self-criticism so to call it by a profound appreciation of the author's corpus. Fascinatingly, the detective novels and the theological writings and the plays and poetry she authored became more intriguing. I am still profitabley re-reading her works each time.

Now, as regards the prophecy in the HP series, I have this constant niggling suspicion in the back of my mind that what we have taken to be a sole reference to either Harry or Voldemort "the hand of the other" by which one or the other must die, may, in fact, refer to Wormtail's silver hand. Purely speculative, of course, but if read that way it casts a whole new possibility onto the prophecy. And, since we have in the Arthurian corpus the response of the others to the nascent King, and their reactions drive the story, I think it quite possible that Wormtail's response to either SERVE Voldemort or Harry in the end a major plot mechanism capable of an unexpected and yet consistent plot twist. (All of this a critical assessment in which only the tale is involved. I really do not think that knowing any details of JKR's life will answer that question. It may be fun, once the series is completed to see if any correlations exists, but I am predilected to think not. That was what JRRT said about his own materials, as you recall. And Lewis as well.)

Charles Williams also offers some insights worth pondering in his reviews for the TIMES of the then current material (circa 1930's and early '40's). This is a review of criticism as a tool to which I am alluding within the context of the reviews individually.

See, I am ecletic critically. There may be something to Freudian criticism but not nearly so much as commonly supposed. I usually read that for entertainment or in periods of hypotension :rolleyes: . Then to move onto the allegations of most critics that THEY have achieved the Elysian field and Golden Mean in this life and are THEREFORE capable of impartial assessment whilst employing every vagrant impulse of which they assess the author(s) without recognizing their own "influences" is always good for the contemplation of humility (O would some powe the Giftie gi'e us...)!

[sun-star]

Sorry to be so long in replying, Sun-Star, work et alia have limited my Mooting.

Me too :(

I have read quite a bit of criticism over the decades. Deconstructive techniques are but one form. We can discuss the various general techniques at your pleasure.

If you like, but not here, I think. Before long this thread will be required for post-HBP speculation :D

It is not that criticism is always wrong in any technique or not useful in its own peculiar fashion (depending on the assumptions), but rather my conviction that literature and poetry are meant to be enjoyed and may well be challenging or upsetting or conventional or otherwise. I think the work itself should be interacted with as whole as finished and presented by the author. That is what elicits response. And that response then becomes reflective and may move to a critical approach out of appreciation or revulsion or challenge to the reader's accepted thought patterns.

I agree, but for me good criticism enhances the pleasure that comes from literature and the interaction with a work. What we're doing here is literary criticism of HP, and it's fun - speculation, discerning patterns, themes, archetypes etc. Reading that Granger article you posted sends people back to the books with a different perspective on them, more than they might have found on their own. CS Lewis knew the value of criticism, despite his dislike of the personal heresy (an argument which he won, by the way - you don't find as much of that kind of criticism now as there was in his day). He was a great critic in his own right, of course - I particularly like his writings on Jane Austen. And Tolkien, too, brought both linguistic and cultural sensitivities to bear on medieval literature in a manner which still delights those who study it. It's true that some critics talk nonsense, usually those who impose their ideas on a text instead of letting their interpretation grow out of what they read. However, I think that the good critics outweigh them, so it's not quite fair to say 'critics rarely accomplish much' :)

[Spock]

I think that the good critics outweigh them, so it's not quite fair to say 'critics rarely accomplish much' :)

I'm reminded of the axiom "those who can, write, those who can't become critics" :D

[sun-star]

Some do both: Lewis and Tolkien are good examples, as I said.

[Spock]

...sigh...

[Nurvingiel]

mabey your right about reading to much into it but i do think that it might meen sumthing . and dumboldore is a fab carrictor but he did anoy me when he told harry everything in 1 chapter :o
Completely fair buddy! What annoyed me was that he still didn't tell Harry everything. I'm sure that Dumbledore knows more about the Prophecy and other important information - maybe even about Harry's family (see Harry's Grandparents thread).

I like the prophecy because it is different from others by how we have seen it so far - adding to the backstory. I think as more information is revealed, it will advance the plot. Also, I think having it in his possession would have given Voldemort an edge, but Neville put a stop to that when he destroyed it.

Poor old Harry. Book six isn't going to have a happy start; he's in for a rough summer. But he does have one consolation: when he turns sixteen, he'll be allowed to use magic outside of school. He can't just use it willy nilly (since that would violate the Statute of Secrecy), but he can use it on Petunia, Vernon, and Dudley, because they already know he's a wizard. :evil: He can also use it to speedily accomplish household chores, and generally make life a little more pleasant.
I'm really interested to see how that plays out. Mwahaha...

[Spock]

I thought he'd prefer to go live with Sirus. Looking forward to the new book in June (preordered in Jan :) )

[Elessar the Elfstone]

I think it will be fudge,
I remember somewhere (don't know where :confused: ) JK saying therwe would be a new minister for magic

[Nurvingiel]

I think there will be a new Minister of Magic too. Fudge might not die, but he sure looks like a moron since he denied that Voldemort returned.

I thought he'd prefer to go live with Sirus. Looking forward to the new book in June (preordered in Jan :) )
I agree. (Have you read book OotP?)

[Pytt]

Since someone will die, she have said that, or is it just a rumour? I hope Fudge is the one saying goodbye. He turned so completely from the nice, a bit clumsy man I had got the impression of in OotP so I don't like him a bit anymore.

I thought it was totaly clear that Harry would go to Sirius and live, but I might have got the wrong impression.

[Spock]

I think so, I had to get the books out of the order they were written, from the library, one at a time....so I'm not sure but I think I read it....confused ? me too. :D

[azalea]

Uh, I don't think it should be a spoiler at this point, but I'll put it in gray just in case (do not look if you haven't read book 5!):

Harry can't go live with Sirius. Sirius dies in book 5.

Furthermore, in book three it is made clear that he can't live with him because of Sirius' outlaw status.

AND Dumbledore has hinted -or even said outright, I can't remember - that living with the Dursleys offers him some kind of protection, although we don't know exactly how. Most surmise it has to do with the fact that Petunia is his blood relative on his mother's side, and there's further speculation about the nature of his mother's death in relation to Harry's surviving Voldemort's attack, so these might be tied together.

[Spock]

RATZ, I can't see anything except a grey line and block. How do you do that??? :(

[Radagast The Brown]

AND Dumbledore has hinted -or even said outright, I can't remember - that living with the Dursleys offers him some kind of protection, although we don't know exactly how. Most surmise it has to do with the fact that Petunia is his blood relative on his mother's side, and there's further speculation about the nature of his mother's death in relation to Harry's surviving Voldemort's attack, so these might be tied together.I think Voldemort says Dumbledore cast a spell, in the fourth book to the Death Eaters, that protects him near his relatives. So he couldn't attack Harry at the Dursleys.

[Pytt]

Yes. Dumbeldore has made a strong protection spell on the Dursley house, making Voldemort uncapable of touching Harry there. The strongest reason harry can't/couldn't live with Sirius, I think.

[Spock]

**Just a news note** JKR will be reading from the new book (from a castle in Scotland) in July....a couple dozen kids are going to be chosen to join her. Lucky youngsters.

[azalea]

RATZ, I can't see anything except a grey line and block. How do you do that??? :(

spoiler ... /spoiler is the tag(?) to use.

[Finrod Felagund]

Also, I strongly doubt that Salazar Slytherin is a half-blood, given his apparent attitude. :)


Voldemort is a half blood.

[Finrod Felagund]

..I justt read a theory...what if the Half Blood Prince is Snape?!?!?

And I thought...Krum is in these darn books...he's gotta serve a purpose...maybe he's the prince?

[EarthBound]

wow, less than a month and we'll have the new book to read....perfect read for summer! :D :cool: I get three weeks off this summer...perfect ;)

[Mercutio]

Four more days! I'm on the waiting list at my local library for it...I got on months and months ago (they made the entry for the book and it just says "in processing" or something like that). I'm #36 and I discovered there are 54 HP HBP books being purchased by the system (a handful of the county libraries). I'm guaranteed to get it on day 1.

Yay!

I'd also like to get my hands on a German version. I'm thinking a good way to work on my Deutsch skills would be to read the German one along with English. Has anybody try that with books?

[EarthBound]

ugh! I hadn't thought about where I was going to purchase it! OH NO!!! :eek: There's a Borders about an hour from where I live....but I suppose they'll be sold out immediately....or not...you can never tell who's paying attention to such things... ;)

[sun-star]

I'd also like to get my hands on a German version. I'm thinking a good way to work on my Deutsch skills would be to read the German one along with English. Has anybody try that with books?

I have, and it works really well with the HP books. The level of the language isn't too difficult, so it's easy to read, but at the same time you learn some great colloquial expressions!

I'm excited about HBP now... glad I've got a little local bookshop which definitely won't run out of copies on Saturday morning!

[Spock]

I too am hooked on HP. I watched the SS the other day for my thirteenth time (on tv) and ordered the new book five months ago. The merchant advised me that it will ship in four days. Yippie!!

[Nurvingiel]

I am also a huge HP geek. I was going to say I'm part of the Pottermania, but I'm getting my copy on the 18th of July, and this doesn't bother me, so I guess I'm not that obsessed. :D I do know the exact date of when it comes out though (midnight on July 16th)... and Harry's birthday (July 31st) and Neville's birthday (July 30th)... :evil:

I did re-read the entire series recently, and I'm really, really looking forward to the next book.

[gollum9630]

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/theprovince/news/story.html?id=ddb1445c-e4dc-4776-99ef-eab280db9c0b

ahh to be one of these 14 lucky jerks

[Elanor's Angel]

I love Hp! I've read the series almost 8 times! I'm spending the night at the book store to get my copy in 3 days! (Today does not count) I simply cannot wait! 672 pages of HP goodness! (I'm also dressing up as Fleur Delecour sp?) :o :D

[Spock]

..ahem.....

[durinsbane2244]

yea, im goin to books a million, it has an all night party type thingy, i just pre-bought mine 10 minutes ago, yay for nerdom, huzzah!

[Spock]

I'm checking my mail each day next week. When we all get the book and read it, we can have a good old party. The thing is you do want to 'savor' it after waiting so long.

[inked]

Well, mine is to arrive on Saturday AM by "brown" from Amazon! I just hope it gets here early so I can read all day and not all night! But I plan to read through it as the mood moves me (and then re-read it to savor it and extract all the clues, though that may take some time and many re-readings!) :cool: .

[Lief Erikson]

Veeery soon, we shall own this book :). And I will have three siblings at home to share it with :eek: .

[durinsbane2244]

so, spock, am i invited? :D

[Spock]

Indeed.

[durinsbane2244]

righteous. whos bringin the chips an dip? :D

[EarthBound]

righteous. whos bringin the chips an dip? :D


errr, maybe it's BYO (bring your own)....I'm thinking that some will blow right through the book, while others (me ;) ) will savor a chapter a night before sleeping! Sure I will.......... :rolleyes:

[durinsbane2244]

man, now i regret blowin all me cash, i cant afford chips an dip!

CURSE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EarthBound]

man, now i regret blowin all me cash, i cant afford chips an dip!

CURSE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Got ya covered......baked tortia chips and salsa for everyone! *slips Corona's into purse*

[Spock]

...puts some Stolli in the freezer, and looks up the number for the local pizza delivery.......

[durinsbane2244]

Huzzah For Earthbound And Spock!!!!!!

Slutations To Freeloaders Across The Globe, My Brothers!!!!!!!!

[Spock]

Got tracking information from B&N and when checking shipment found they only shipped another book ordered at the same time (Jan '05) but did NOTship HP. I've an e-mail complaint off to them but who knows when?
:mad: :( :(

[Mercutio]

Only a few more hours, that's all the time we've got. A few more hours...


I reserved a copy in our library system back in January (whatever made me look for it in January...or our library to already have entered them in the system?). I can pick it up at 10:00 tomorrow morning. No wasting sleep on this book. :)

[Millane]

bout a hundred pages in, this book could not have come at a worse time... for once i was finally getting into wheel of time (7th book ha YAY! beat my previous best of 6th :p ) only to have to stop to read this :rolleyes:
i was one of those people who got up and rushed in at 9.01 am to pick it up :) well not really, i think i was still drunk at that time, but you better believe i told mother dearest to go down and buy it for me...
anywho went and bought another pack of cigs and 2L of Big M so ill see you all tommorrow morning :D
btw im deadly serious i saw one of them Inferious today, before id even started reading the book i was at the supermarket with a friend and it scared the **** out of both of us :eek:

[sun-star]

So, anyone ready to talk about it yet (with spoilers of course)? And, knowing the tendency of this forum, does the first person to spot a Narnia/LOTR parallel get a prize? :D

[Spock]

Today at the post office I had a package slip. It was THE BOOK. Sent via UPS and directed to my PO Box, and B&N weren't able to tell me where it was. I believe in owls! :rolleyes:

[durinsbane2244]

yay, whoo hoo, i just spent a whole day reading and im almost 3/4 done, wait, what am i doing wasting my time here? curse you all, there was no chips!!!!! :(

[tolkienfan]

I just finished it. I think I'm in shock.

[Linaewen]

I just finished it. I think I'm in shock.
Hear hear.

How long till the next one comes out? :p I'm dying to read it! *twitches*

[Falagar]

Didn't get to read much during the day, but the night was well spent. Finished it as the morning arrived; a nice book and much better than the last one. Didn't leave me breathless or craving for more or anything like that, but am looking foreward to the final installment. :)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Just finished it. I was surprised by the ending, I thought it would go on for a bit longer.

[Spock]

So we never go to the post office on Saturday. My wife goes and there's a parcel notice. It's from B&N, once home I open it and its HP&HBP !! :) Meanwhile B&N says they didn't ship it, it had a label underneath from them but was then sent by United Parcel Service and then re-directed back to the Post Office. Personally, I think it was delivered by OWL. :rolleyes:
I'm going to savor it and read a bit each day. :D

[tolkienfan]

I liked it a bit better then the 5th one too. I can't believe he's not going back to Hogwarts. He has to!

[Mercutio]

I finished it about 11:15 last night (had to practice organ, work on a bedspread and other assorted things). Sunstar - I wonder if Dumbledore is going to do a Gandalf...and come back in book 7?

And the first thing I thought of when they introduced the new lionlike Minister was Aslan & Narnia

[BeardofPants]

Actually, I'm glad that he's not going back to hogwarts.... I enjoyed the book, but it really needs something more... fresh... We've done hogwarts - to death, I might add.

Can't say I was that surprised that Dumbledore was killed. I was wondering how JK Rowling would sever all of Harry's ties so that he could finally go out and take on Voldemort. Remember that she killed of Sirius - so Dumbledore shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. I also suspect that he (dumbledore) put snape up to killing him as he knew that Harry wouldn't leave hogwarts otherwise. What made me suspicious was that I couldn't imagine dumbledore pleading with snape -it seemed out of character. And I suspect that snape is still a double agent to voldemort, and killing dumbledore makes it look like he's even more faithful to voldemort now. If he killed him. Perhaps dumbledore was dying anyway from that shite he drank?

[Mercutio]

The next book won't come out for about 2 years. Rowling is starting it the end of this year. (From an interview).

:eek:

[tolkienfan]

I thought each book was supposed to be one year at Hogwarts. Maybe he'll go back briefly sometime in the book. I'll be mad if he doesn't!

[durinsbane2244]

I don't know how to do the spoiler thing, i guess you just give it a backround the same color as the text, but someone please tell me so i can talk here!
(i finished it at 11:46 of the night i got it, yay!)

[Mercutio]

Durinsbane...you type [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ] like any other html code. Just get rid of the spaces in that. To really see, click "quote" on anyone's post that has spoiler text.

Any guess as to who R.A.B. is? The consensus elsewhere on the internet is that it is Regulus A. Black, Siruis's brother.

[Spock]

Well, so far I find the book a step up. Or as Emeril would say "kicked up a notch". It's still entertaining, but with more adult subjects and reflects the growth of the parties involved.

[inked]

BOP,
O knicker nicker,
I agree with thee,
And if thou wouldst see,
My thoughts more largely expressed,
Try SF-Fandom.com "finished 6th" thread!
:D

Till we can discuss it here in the clear! :cool:

[Khamûl]

Holy freakin' cow. I thought it was going to be Dumbledore because somehow I knew that Harry would have to do it more or less alone in the end. One possibility that crossed my mind was that it would be Snape that died. I hoped that he wouldn't go through with helping Draco, but instead sacrifice himself by making and then breaking an Unbreakable Vow and getting more information that way. But then he just had to go and kill Dumbledore.

I didn't cry when Sirius died, but I came close at Dumbledore's funeral. The thing that did make me tear up was Ron and Hermione saying that they'd stay with Harry until the end. It was sort of a Samwise-on-Mt.-Doom moment.

On a lighter note, did anyone catch the fact that Slughorn (who never can remember Ron's name) referred to him once as Rupert? I thought that was cool. :D

[sun-star]

Yeah, that was funny :D

Slughorn was great altogether - definitely JKR's most Dickensian characer so far (anyone else think he's a dead ringer for Harold Skimpole in Bleak House?) Nice to see a character who's a vain, selfish, shallow hypocrite who doesn't turn out to be evil.

I've been expecting Dumbledore to die since GOF, so it wasn't a surprise to me. Not many surprises all round actually - Ron and Hermione/Harry and Ginny, Snape as Half-Blood Prince, Voldemort's past etc. was all quite predictable, but none the less interesting for being so.

Sunstar - I wonder if Dumbledore is going to do a Gandalf...and come back in book 7?

And the first thing I thought of when they introduced the new lionlike Minister was Aslan & Narnia

The whole of the end from the underground lake (or should we call it the Dead Marshes? :D), to Dumbledore fighting against the potion, to the funeral was reminiscent of the end of The Silver Chair to me.

[Elfmaster XK]

My thoughts on HBP.

General: I'm not sure how I feel about this book. It felt strangely unfinished to me. I don't know why exactly, but it did. Overall I thought it started a bit slowly, but got better. I can't help feeling the story has become overly serious and not so amusing now. Not that serious is bad, but it is a child's book, and it's dealing with some quite important things. I apologise for my rambling, I'm just writing the streams of thought as the come.

Quote from BoP:
I also suspect that he (dumbledore) put snape up to killing him as he knew that Harry wouldn't leave hogwarts otherwise. What made me suspicious was that I couldn't imagine dumbledore pleading with snape -it seemed out of character. And I suspect that snape is still a double agent to voldemort, and killing dumbledore makes it look like he's even more faithful to voldemort now. If he killed him. Perhaps dumbledore was dying anyway from that shite he drank?

I agree with you on this one. I think Dumbledore was actually pleading with Snape to kill him. Not to not kill him. You're right, his character so far as we have seen would not act this way, and it is the only way I can see for it to make sense. The only curious thing about it is that he froze Harry. I expect he thought it important he view the scene. BUT, I wondered if perhaps when he realised it a trap he froze him so he wouldn't go and bring Snape...which suggests Snape really is on the other side now.

BUT again, Dumbledore probably knew about Snape's unbreakable vow, and he gave him the DADA job, which he knew was cursed. So Snape couldn't stay at the school any longer. Not to mention that the Death Eater's were getting curious why Snape was still there. Snape also let Harry go. He didn't kill him 'cos Voldie wants him', but whether or not I beleive this...I dunno. If Voldie wants to kill him so much the Death Eaters should of taken him. But Snape didn't. So he may still be on their side. Is going to take some mega covincing to be trusted again though. He may have simply been showing his true colours finally.

As you can see I'm unsure what to think of this yet, and require some further readings of all the books to try and understand.

About Horcruxes and Inferi:

I'm with Mercutio at the moment, I reckon R.A.B is Regulus Black. That would fit nicely because it means the proper locket horcrux could be in Grimmauld Place, as Harry inherited it. I think the horcrux is an interesting idea, and obviously now central to the story. I have a theory about this for book 7, but it's below in case you don't want to know it. Inferi...the lake think totally freaked me out. I was reminded of the dead marshes, but was also reminded of something else. I can't remember what I read it in, but kelpies were responsible for grabbing people and taking them underwater, where they drowned. There's something immensely sinister about water that doesn't move (why I hate canals!). Anyway, that was creepy.

About Hogwarts and learning:

I imagine the school will re-open, but not play a big part in the next book. If it doesn't then the teachers could start being full time Pheonix guys while Harry looks for the horcruxes. However, Harry is an unqualified wizard. He's talented yes, but he hasn't learnt everything. Snape simply stopped his spells before they were out of his mouth. How much good will that do him in the finale? When Dumbledore was looking around the cave Harry didn't understand how he was finding things. Magic leaves a trace, but Harry doesn't know how to detect it. I can't see how he can win the fight without much more learning. I mean of all the people trying to help, most of them were injured in the fight in the castle, and Ginny (or Hermione) even said without the Felix Felicis they probably would have died.

About Spells, the HBP and stuff:

Well well well. Look at Snape. What an interesting thing to call himself. This does strongly associate him with Voldie. After all, taking on a nickname like that, and experimenting and creating spells.

BUT there are 3 possiblities here about this book. 1. JKR made an error. 2. He's lying. The book is 50 years old, so Harry said. Snape is not from that era. So it could be Tom Riddle's, and Snape found and kept it, naming it as his own. After all, Snape wasn't rich I don't think. I can't recall if ever anywhere has hinted he had second hand things. But if he did, this would make sense. So he's still the HBP as he calls himself, but he wasn't the book maker. Or 3. Harry looked at the date first published, which doesn't necesarrily mean how old the book it. If it was Snape's it would be shabby after all the potions work he did.

If he's working with Voldie now, why so keen to admit being half-blood I wonder. Perhaps he just admitted it was him so he felt good and important, rather than for any reason. ANyway, the spells do seem very Dark Arts, and, if he indeed invented them, make me wonder again if Snape really has defected.

I'm very glad Draco (and the some of other slytherins) were given something beyond 'I'm the school bully, fear me', and 'ooh, we're the scary mean house'. No I don't think he is redeemed. He made it perfectly clear he was working for Voldie now, but the fear was tangible. He was scared he, and his family would die. His work dropped because it was no longer about pleasing his father with grades. He's a very good slytherin. Trying to survive. I wonder if he was waiting to kill Dumbledore so he didn't have to. Snape would come along and sort it out. But if Voldie finds out then he's gonna be annoyed, especially if it was designed as punishment for the Malfoys' previous failure. So he might never be seen again.

My speculations for book 7:


Okay so Harry has to find the horcruxes, and will be helped by Ron and Hermione, probably not going back to school. Draco, I imagine will be killed by Voldie. If however, he isn't then he owes Snape, which could be very interesting if Snape turns out to be Non-death eater after all. There's also the Wormtail debt to be dealt with.

But anyway, I think that there was a big clue in the horcrux that we saw. I assume everyone noticed it was cracked, but on the british edition of the childrens version there was a picture, with a lightning shaped crack. I think that Harry is the 6th Horcrux. This means he will have to kill himself to kill voldemort. After all, he's the only one who can do it? Why? Because Voldemort marked him. He chose him. He unintentionally created a Horcux when the spell went wrong, which is why Harry could see his thoughts. He's the only one who can do it because even if someone killed all the other parts of Voldemort, Harry living would mean Voldemort living. I don't think Voldie know this though. Or he wouldn't want to kill Harry, unless he wants his soul back :D

End of random (and confusing) rambling.

[EarthBound]

Ok, confession...I secured the new HP book for purchase early Saturday morning, all I had to do is show up....and I was planning on it until the news that morning mentioned it would be $29.99 plus tax.....I felt like puking. I love the story, but I think these people are rich enough to keep the price realistic. I'll wait for the paperback...and after I've been waiting soooo long for the book. Anyway, turns out I have a 'greed-reflex' gene in me.

I'll be patient....... :o

[Spock]

...whats with the huge silver boxes? I've not run across them before

[Mercutio]

...whats with the huge silver boxes? I've not run across them before


Spoiler code! Unless you want to know what's going on in book 6, don't read it. (To do so just highlight the section).






Interesting thoughts about Harry being a Horcrux, Elfmaster.

I'm wondering about Regulus...supposedly he was a death eater who Voldemort murdered. Rereading the note in the locket, I noticed it kept referring to R.A.B's death. "I'll be dead by the time you find out." or something like that. Could Regulus have done this, knowing that Voldemort was going to murder him anyway in the near future? Kind of revenge before the revenge-affecting-event?

[Elfmaster XK]

Spock they're spoiler tabs so if anyone who hasn't read HBP comes across the thread then they won't see what I've written, and hence get angry I revealed spoilers. To see what I wrote put your mouse point over the grey boxes and select as you select text normally. Then you can see the text.

Mercutio. That's what I thought. I'm pretty sure it says in OotP that Regulus knew Voldie was after him, so perhaps he wasn't so dumb as everyone thought. I'm gonna scour the books for other R.A.B's soon as I get chance. Regulus is a good bet though, as little has been made of him. And that's a JKR trait.

[Mercutio]

...and Rowling went to the trouble of giving Sirius's brother a first name, middle initial, and teeny tiny bit of supposed history.

He seems the only logical choice, unless R.A.B. means "R---- and B----" . (But I doubt it).

[sun-star]

I agree, and I hope it means we see more of Grimmauld Place in the next book. It was a pity that Harry didn't get to use his inheritance (even if he didn't really want it).

The biggest disappointment for me was a lack of info about the Marauders and Lily. Lupin was barely there (and something about his characterisation seemed off all through the book - mainly his speech) until all of a sudden he's we find out he's secretly in love with Tonks. Very dubious about that...

[Mercutio]

Harry now has an excuse to go to Grimmauld Place more (with his inheritance), especially if he won't be entirely at Hogwarts. And Rowling took an awful lot of time introducing Harry's new house-elf from Grimmauld (what's his name?). I don't think that new character is ended yet (and he wants to go to Bella, not Harry). Hmm...

[Spock]

[QUOTE=Elfmaster XK]Spock they're spoiler tabs so if anyone who hasn't read HBP comes across the thread then they won't see what I've written, and hence get angry I revealed spoilers. To see what I wrote put your mouse point over the grey boxes and select as you select text normally. Then you can see the text.


Well, I see now how I can see, but I don't want to and so that's fine. I've still no idea how to do that but hey, I'm not the all knowing Oz. :p

[Mercutio]

Here's a sample. You can read what's below, it's not actually a spoiler to Harry Potter. To see how it's done click "quote" on this post.

This is a sample of what "spoiler text" is, and how it works.

[Spock]

..ahh, but I must left click and hold down then move the mouse along to read it....thanks for helping.

[Mercutio]

I saw this on another board, thought it was an interesting theory.
I have a friend who believes that, before going to the cave, Snape and DD consumed the Polyjuice Potion and switched places. She claims that from the chapter on DD was acting out of character so on and so forth (i.e. being for agitated with Harry, using his scarred hand without pain). Personally, I think it more than unlikely, but again, anything is possible in Harry Potter.

Me again: That would explain Snape ("really DD") being so keen on instantly killing Dumbledore ("really Snape"), and why Dumbledore ("really Snape") froze Harry when Malfoy was there.

Edit: Can Dumbledore's portrait help Harry?

[durinsbane2244]

Mercutio, interesting theory, and i would love that to be true, because that would show true genius in rowling,and also i like the harry/horcrux thing, cause that would make him have to kill himslef and voldemort at once, or make a horcrux of his own. . .

[Finrod Felagund]

Got the book yesterday afternoon...finished last nite!

I was right...Snape WAS the half blood prince. And if you read what Hermione says then the textbook was originally owned by his mother, making 50 years ago possible. Snape inherited the book later.


The one thing that kept itching at the back of my mind was, where is Dumbledore's mysterious brother? You'd think he'd have been at the funeral. And will he have a part to play in book 7? He WAS a Order member. Can't even remember his name...

It just seemed strange he didn't show up...and if he was dead it would have said right?

[Mercutio]

There's also Amelia Bones (she fits the A.B. part at least.)

[durinsbane2244]

finrod, its aberforth.

[Lief Erikson]

I still think Snape may well be good. There are two reasons I have for this belief.

1# Theme. It would be a rather ugly twist to Harry Potter's theme to say, "trust is not good."

2# Dumbledore's reason. Dumbledore was certain of Snape's loyalty. Even the book characters noted that he seemed to have an "iron clad" reason for believing in Snape. J.K. Rowling did not make it at all clear what this reason was in Book 6. This implies it still is important, for J.K. Rowling exposes everything that isn't important at the end of her books. It's a logical and tidy way of doing things.



I note with pleasure that at the end of book 6, the Dark Arts job at Hogwarts is once again vacant :D.

It seems to me that Voldemort may well be in quite a tight spot, in book 7. I believe Snape is probably still good. Wormtail also may turn on Voldemort. He's got the three Malfoys too squirming under his leadership.

Outside of his own ranks, he's got a mysterious R.A.B. messing with him as well as Harry, who may well be his most dangerous opponent left.

It isn't looking too good for Voldemort, if you ask me. Though I note that his war against all goodness seemed to be working out brilliantly for him in book 6. The Death Eaters too seemed more challenging opponents then they were in book 5.

One thing I have some difficulty with in book 6 is an apparent contradiction in Snape's powers. James was able to clobber him in book 5. Three teenagers were able to beat him in book 3. However, we also see Snape as such a brilliant Occlumens that he can decieve either Dumbledore or Voldemort. Either deception would be an amazing feat. We also see Snape able to do those amazing things he did with his Potions book and Dark Arts spell making.

So I'm confused.

Harry is going to have to become a good Occlumens :mad: . He has to :mad: . I really am pleased that he's going to leave Hogwarts for book 7 and wander around hunting pieces of Voldemort. It's a good plot thread. I honestly expected the sort of thing that was happening in book 6 to happen in book 7. The school battle, Dumbledore's death, all that kind of thing. I thought it would all be in book 7. I'm very pleased to be wrong :). J.K. Rowling also wrote Dumbledore's death very well, IMO.

One very fascinating thing we might see developed in book 7 is Harry's temptation to use the Dark Arts. In book 5 it looked like just a piece of the moment when he was shooting his angry Dark Arts spells at Bellatrix. Forgiveable. Spontaneous. His use of the Dark Arts in book 6 though is another matter, to me. It seems like it's becoming more of a problem, particularly as Snape points out his frequent use of them in book 6. His use of them against Snape also implies he's becoming more attached to them. He'll probably have to make a final decision to reject them in book 7. Perhaps Scrimgeour will start having Aurors use them, and it'll become more of an issue.

J.K. Rowling is doing very well indeed with her plot and story :D. I'm looking forward to her next book- and to listening to Harry Potter book 6 on audio cassette. I may want to reread the book sometime too.

[Falagar]

I still think Snape may well be good. There are two reasons I have for this belief.

1# Theme. It would be a rather ugly twist to Harry Potter's theme to say, "trust is not good."

2# Dumbledore's reason. Dumbledore was certain of Snape's loyalty. Even the book characters noted that he seemed to have an "iron clad" reason for believing in Snape. J.K. Rowling did not make it at all clear what this reason was in Book 6. This implies it still is important, for J.K. Rowling exposes everything that isn't important at the end of her books. It's a logical and tidy way of doing things.
I agree. Another incident which made me doubt that he really had turned evil: the way he screams "No Harry!" while fleeing with the Death Eaters. Also, he stops them from killing Harry. Of course, the reason he gives is perfectly logical: Harry belongs to Voldemort. But why not capture him? Use Imperius? Either way I think there's more to it than wanting to spare him for the Dark Lord.


I note with pleasure that at the end of book 6, the Dark Arts job at Hogwarts is once again vacant :D.

It seems to me that Voldemort may well be in quite a tight spot, in book 7. I believe Snape is probably still good. Wormtail also may turn on Voldemort. He's got the three Malfoys too squirming under his leadership.

Outside of his own ranks, he's got a mysterious R.A.B. messing with him as well as Harry, who may well be his most dangerous opponent left.
I've heard rumours about R.A.B being Sirius' brother, Regulus *something* Black, which at least partly fits the initials. Potter needs more training, much more, and this R.A.B., whether Sirius' brother or not, could be just the wizard he needs to complete it.

It isn't looking too good for Voldemort, if you ask me. Though I note that his war against all goodness seemed to be working out brilliantly for him in book 6. The Death Eaters too seemed more challenging opponents then they were in book 5.

One thing I have some difficulty with in book 6 is an apparent contradiction in Snape's powers. James was able to clobber him in book 5. Three teenagers were able to beat him in book 3. However, we also see Snape as such a brilliant Occlumens that he can decieve either Dumbledore or Voldemort. Either deception would be an amazing feat. We also see Snape able to do those amazing things he did with his Potions book and Dark Arts spell making.

So I'm confused.
James and his gang were pretty talented wizards, and they outnumbered him 3-1 (or something). And the humiliation he suffered there may have urged him to become better. Also, I think there's a difference between being good at making spells (or potions), and being good at casting them.

Harry is going to have to become a good Occlumens :mad: . He has to :mad: . I really am pleased that he's going to leave Hogwarts for book 7 and wander around hunting pieces of Voldemort. It's a good plot thread. I honestly expected the sort of thing that was happening in book 6 to happen in book 7. The school battle, Dumbledore's death, all that kind of thing. I thought it would all be in book 7. I'm very pleased to be wrong :). J.K. Rowling also wrote Dumbledore's death very well, IMO.
Yeah, I'm also very excited about him leaving Hogwarts. We haven't seen much of the outside (wizarding-) world during the first 6 years (though heard a lot about it), and it will be interesting seeing Harry travelling on his own without anyone to protect him if he steps wrong, for once. It was necessary to kill off Dumbledor, to renew the story and keep it interesting.

About the Occlumens: was thinking the same thing. He should have done better last year.

[sun-star]

The one thing that kept itching at the back of my mind was, where is Dumbledore's mysterious brother? You'd think he'd have been at the funeral. And will he have a part to play in book 7? He WAS a Order member. Can't even remember his name...

It just seemed strange he didn't show up...and if he was dead it would have said right?

He was at the funeral, but not mentioned by name - on page 598 of the UK edition, among a long list of names it says there were "some people whom Harry knew merely by sight, such as the barman of the Hog's Head". It's just a brief reference because Harry still doesn't know he's Dumbledore's brother and therefore thinks he's not important.

I've heard rumours about R.A.B being Sirius' brother, Regulus *something* Black, which at least partly fits the initials. Potter needs more training, much more, and this R.A.B., whether Sirius' brother or not, could be just the wizard he needs to complete it.

Regulus is dead... or at least that's what everyone thinks. Perhaps he isn't really...

One thing I have some difficulty with in book 6 is an apparent contradiction in Snape's powers. James was able to clobber him in book 5. Three teenagers were able to beat him in book 3. However, we also see Snape as such a brilliant Occlumens that he can decieve either Dumbledore or Voldemort. Either deception would be an amazing feat. We also see Snape able to do those amazing things he did with his Potions book and Dark Arts spell making.

I agree with Falagar about the difference between theory and practice in magic, and I also think we shouldn't see the end of Book 3 as a typical example of Snape's powers. He was under a lot of emotional pressure there which may have been clouding his magical performance. The same goes for the Pensieve scene in Book 5 - taken by surprise, outnumbered and scared, he still manages to produce some pretty dangerous spells. IMO, Snape is a powerful wizard who gets carried away in emotional situations.

[Spock]

..I appreciate all the silver boxes, as I'm slowly reading the book and savoring each page.

[Lief Erikson]

I agree. Another incident which made me doubt that he really had turned evil: the way he screams "No Harry!" while fleeing with the Death Eaters. Also, he stops them from killing Harry. Of course, the reason he gives is perfectly logical: Harry belongs to Voldemort. But why not capture him? Use Imperius? Either way I think there's more to it than wanting to spare him for the Dark Lord.
Agreed. That reaction of Snape's to Harry's use of the Dark Arts is another reason why I think Harry may have to make a real decision concerning them in book 7. One can't deny that the Dark Arts are very effective combat spells.
I've heard rumours about R.A.B being Sirius' brother, Regulus *something* Black, which at least partly fits the initials. Potter needs more training, much more, and this R.A.B., whether Sirius' brother or not, could be just the wizard he needs to complete it.
That would be great :D.

It would be wonderful, IMO, if book 7 could span more than one year. I know it would be stepping way outside of J.K. Rowling's normal practice, but removing him from Hogwarts is already doing that, isn't it? I'm not saying I think J.K. Rowling will do that. It would be neat, though :). It also would give more time to develop Harry's relationship with Ginny.

Another possibility is that J.K. Rowling's "power of love" may permit Harry to defeat Voldemort without the use of uber-enchantments. Dumbledore keeps saying "there are things worse than death." Dumbledore said that in the Hall of Mysteries there was a door that studied a strange power, which Harry had a great deal of. The prophecy also says, "he will have power the Dark Lord knows not". Love, sure, but perhaps actually useable in a practical sense? Lily's love was certainly useful to Harry in a practical way.
James and his gang were pretty talented wizards, and they outnumbered him 3-1 (or something).
Yes, but James actually did it alone. Sirius was just watching, and Lupin sitting by a tree reading O.W.L. papers. James was very talented though, I agree.
And the humiliation he suffered there may have urged him to become better. Also, I think there's a difference between being good at making spells (or potions), and being good at casting them.
Maybe. Though Snape certainly has shown that he's a good Occlumens.
Yeah, I'm also very excited about him leaving Hogwarts. We haven't seen much of the outside (wizarding-) world during the first 6 years (though heard a lot about it), and it will be interesting seeing Harry travelling on his own without anyone to protect him if he steps wrong, for once. It was necessary to kill off Dumbledor, to renew the story and keep it interesting.

About the Occlumens: was thinking the same thing. He should have done better last year.
Harry has done pretty well on his own up to now, though. The escape from Voldemort in book 4 and the fight with the dementors in book 3 were entirely on his own. The support he got in the other fights still was just that- support. It enabled him to succeed, but it was still he that succeeded.

I wonder how many travelling companions Harry will end up having. If Ron and Hermione come, that's two. Kreacher and Dobby might come, especially if Hogwarts closes. Neville and Luna, the two most interested in the D.A. (Neville also plainly has plot left before him), may also wish to come. I don't know. It would be strange if Harry's "lone adventure" turned out to be him leading a small army.

I think Hogwarts will temporarily close, and it will probably reopen in the end of book 7. I also think Harry will become a teacher there. I cannot see him becoming an Auror, really. "Auror" would be a neat job, but he's way too angry with the Ministry right now, and by the end of book 7 he probably will be very tired of fighting.

[durinsbane2244]

i was just thinking on i think mercutios thing about snape an dumbledore having the polyjuice, wouldnt it have worn out during the funeral, and also, the r.a.b. is probably regulas because his name was mentioned quite a lot in book 6.

[Mercutio]

I highly highly doubt snape and dumbledore had switched places. Dumbledore was already in the portrait in his old office anyway. Everything points to a real death.

[Khamûl]

But anyway, I think that there was a big clue in the horcrux that we saw. I assume everyone noticed it was cracked, but on the british edition of the childrens version there was a picture, with a lightning shaped crack. I think that Harry is the 6th Horcrux. This means he will have to kill himself to kill voldemort. After all, he's the only one who can do it? Why? Because Voldemort marked him. He chose him. He unintentionally created a Horcux when the spell went wrong, which is why Harry could see his thoughts. He's the only one who can do it because even if someone killed all the other parts of Voldemort, Harry living would mean Voldemort living. I don't think Voldie know this though. Or he wouldn't want to kill Harry, unless he wants his soul back :D
I've been working on the theory that Harry is the 6th Horcrux, too. What you've pointed out are exactly the points I arrived at on my own. Although I do wonder if Voldemort made Harry a Horcrux on purpose, which would tie into the point of "even if someone killed the rest of Voldemort, Harry living would mean Voldemort living". What better way to make sure that you keep on living than by putting part of your soul in the person who has the power to kill you? But something went wrong when he did it -- I guess Harry's "love" power got in the way somehow. Just my thoughts on it. But I bet Voldie knows Harry has part of his soul. Which leaves us with the question of "Why would Voldemort want to kill part of his own soul?" I think he would sacrifice it to be rid of the person who has the power to vanquish him. And he's just arrogant enough to think that no one would be able to track down and do away with all the other Horcruxes, so what big deal is 1/7th of his soul? One last thought on Voldemort's soul: It could also be Voldemort's part of Harry that made Harry feel like there was a snake inside him when Dumbledore looked at him in OoTP.

I'll have to see if I can find that picture of the known Horcrux to see the lightning-shaped crack. Was the picture at the beginning of the chapter in the British edition?

[durinsbane2244]

also, that could explain harry beginning to use the dark arts more frequently, that is, him being a horcrux. . .

[King of The Istari]

I think Harry being a horux would be an intresting speculation but I would.nt like it to be true, that would mean that the only way to defeat voldimort would be to kill himself and I don't think the death of the main character that you have been following over the course of seven novels will end the seies well enough, I would quite like to see a happy ending to the series, I think the four main character MUST survive:

the four being
Harry
Ron
Hermione
And Ginny

So that then Hermione and ron can get together: you can see from book six even id Harry can't see it that hermione really likes ron
and Harry and Ginny can get back together after Harry Has defeated Voldimort.

Harry could then become the new Defence against the dark arts teacher (the curse would be lifted now voldi was dead)
or if Mgonegal dies the new headmaster

Now that is my Idea of a good ending to the story Nothing unusual or unexpected, Just a nice ending to a very long and series of books that are close to my heart!


PS: I remember reading somewhere that JK would give harry a happy ending but who knows in the world of Harry Potter

PPS: You might think the killing off of harry at the end of the books is intresting NOW but if that really was the ending to the series in two years you will all probably be complaining about it and saying things like "JKR took the easy way out" etc

-crosses fingers for happy ending-

[durinsbane2244]

yes, harry would be a good teacher, he would have to forgo his dream of aurordom though, and i think harry should marry ginny, and hermione ron (eventually of course) so than theyd all be family, in a legal sense! :p

[Elfmaster XK]

Khamul
I'll have to see if I can find that picture of the known Horcrux to see the lightning-shaped crack. Was the picture at the beginning of the chapter in the British edition

It's on the spine on the children's British edition. I only mention it as previously on the spine there was a big black dog (POA), which was important to that story. I can't recall what's on the others, and I can't recall if Harry particularly commented on the ring when he saw it. I think he noticed. But it seemed something small and perhapscould go unnoticed, yet turns out important.

I like the theory that DUmbledore and Snape switched, but it can't be true because Dumbledore would have regained his appearence once Snape died, and also, remember Barty Crouch had to keep Moody alive to keep making the potion. There was also the fact Fawkes left. I think Fawkes wouldn't have gone unless Dumbledore was really gone.

Dumbledore's portriat should act like all the others, so should be able to help. I'm uncertain of Snape's allegience, but think he's probbly still good, and deespite what Harry said (he knew Snape was trusted because he was sorry about James) I don't believe it. Dumbledore had a reason, a proper reason, and now I reckon the only way to see it is though memory. I also think that Harry can go in the pensieve and see more of Dumbledore's memories to understand more.

[durinsbane2244]

well, fawkes could've left to follow dumbledore who looked like snape cause he went away with draco, and snape wouldnt have to be alive for the potion to work, they would just need him to make MORE of the potion.

[Elfmaster XK]

well, fawkes could've left to follow dumbledore who looked like snape cause he went away with draco, and snape wouldnt have to be alive for the potion to work, they would just need him to make MORE of the potion.

But I think he would. Because as soon as someone dies their spells stop working. So why would it be any different with potions? And if Dumbledore intends to pretend to be Snape then having Fawkes around would be a giveaway. True, Fawkes could jus be flying around somewhere. But there's also the fact that I don't think polyjuice potion would be enough to hoodwink Snape's unbreakable vow. Although I guess if they had switched Snape would be dead without fulfilling the vow, which would kill him anyway. I don't know. Like I said, I LIKE the theory, but I find it has more flaws than virtues.

[durinsbane2244]

i also like it though its probably not true, and like hedwig goes where harry goes, fawkes could be going to dumbledores next hideout, and, to merge science and magic, snapes hairs are still his dna even if he dies.

here's a new speculation, what if the "ironclad evidence" dumbledore had was an unbreakable vow, and snape took it to always do dumbledore's will. he then(supposing that above theory is false) had to kill dumbledore, again supposing that dumbledore was in fact pleading for snape to kill him, but snape didnt want to, and that was why he had a face of hatred.

[Khamûl]

Although I do wonder if Voldemort made Harry a Horcrux on purpose, which would tie into the point of "even if someone killed the rest of Voldemort, Harry living would mean Voldemort living". What better way to make sure that you keep on living than by putting part of your soul in the person who has the power to kill you? But something went wrong when he did it -- I guess Harry's "love" power got in the way somehow. Just my thoughts on it.
Just ignore me. I'm an idiot. :p I quote from Chamber of Secrets: (Dumbledore) -"Unless I'm much mistaken, he transferred some of his own powers to you the night he gave you that scar. Not something he intended to do, I'm sure...."
"Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?" Harry said, thunderstruck.
"It certainly seems so."

--From the chapter "Dobby's Reward", right after Lockhart leaves Dumbledore's officeThat puts an end to my theory that he did it on purpose.
It's on the spine on the children's British edition. I only mention it as previously on the spine there was a big black dog (POA), which was important to that story. I can't recall what's on the others, and I can't recall if Harry particularly commented on the ring when he saw it. I think he noticed. But it seemed something small and perhapscould go unnoticed, yet turns out important.All I have on the spine of my edition is green swirls. :( When Harry saw the ring on Dumbledore's hand in Slughorn's house, he noted that it was cracked down the middle, but no mention was made of the pattern of the crack. I think he sees it later in Dumbledore's office, but I'll have to check.
I think Harry being a horux would be an intresting speculation but I would.nt like it to be true, that would mean that the only way to defeat voldimort would be to kill himself and I don't think the death of the main character that you have been following over the course of seven novels will end the seies well enough, I would quite like to see a happy ending to the series, I think the four main character MUST survive:As much of a happy ending as that would be, I don't see it happening. It often happens in literature that the hero doesn't make it. Look at two of the oldest pieces of literature that we have: The Iliad and Beowulf. Hector, the protector and hero of the Trojans, is killed. Beowulf, after defeating Grendel and his mother, is mortally wounded in a fight with a dragon. Ever see the movie Gladiator? I have no problem with a hero making the ultimate sacrifice for what they believe in.

[Falagar]

Regulus is dead... or at least that's what everyone thinks. Perhaps he isn't really...
He'd have to be, wouldn't he, to get away from the DE's. ;)

Yes, but James actually did it alone. Sirius was just watching, and Lupin sitting by a tree reading O.W.L. papers. James was very talented though, I agree.
Of course, but then there wouldn't be much point for Snape to resist, as James' friends were standing around watching.

Harry has done pretty well on his own up to now, though. The escape from Voldemort in book 4 and the fight with the dementors in book 3 were entirely on his own. The support he got in the other fights still was just that- support. It enabled him to succeed, but it was still he that succeeded.
Yes, but each time he has had someone to go to, someone to heal him and explain things to him when he comes around again, and someone to shelter him from Voldemort to make further attempts. Now he's alone, neither him nor any of his friends would be able/expected to have any chance against Voldemort.

I think Hogwarts will temporarily close, and it will probably reopen in the end of book 7. I also think Harry will become a teacher there. I cannot see him becoming an Auror, really. "Auror" would be a neat job, but he's way too angry with the Ministry right now, and by the end of book 7 he probably will be very tired of fighting.[/spoiler]
How does "Harry Potter, the youngest man to ever become Headmaster of Galtwort" sound? ;) Either that or death, me thinks.

[Millane]

I've been working on the theory that Harry is the 6th Horcrux, too. What you've pointed out are exactly the points I arrived at on my own. Although I do wonder if Voldemort made Harry a Horcrux on purpose, which would tie into the point of "even if someone killed the rest of Voldemort, Harry living would mean Voldemort living". What better way to make sure that you keep on living than by putting part of your soul in the person who has the power to kill you? But something went wrong when he did it -- I guess Harry's "love" power got in the way somehow. Just my thoughts on it. But I bet Voldie knows Harry has part of his soul. Which leaves us with the question of "Why would Voldemort want to kill part of his own soul?" I think he would sacrifice it to be rid of the person who has the power to vanquish him. And he's just arrogant enough to think that no one would be able to track down and do away with all the other Horcruxes, so what big deal is 1/7th of his soul? One last thought on Voldemort's soul: It could also be Voldemort's part of Harry that made Harry feel like there was a snake inside him when Dumbledore looked at him in OoTP.

I'll have to see if I can find that picture of the known Horcrux to see the lightning-shaped crack. Was the picture at the beginning of the chapter in the British edition?
that would make sense in a way, but that would mean harry couldnt finish Voldemort because Harry would have to die before Voldemort, i guess Harry could let Voldemort kill him because he had to and then let someone else finish off Voldemort, but i dunno, could happen i guess...

[Rûdhaglarien]

Well... I've read a lot of the reactions to and thoughts on the book, but I'm going to post this now and finish reading all your thoughts after.
Firstly, I loved the book. It's definitely taken the title of my second favourite HP book, after PoA.
Secondly, there was a one thing that I really stood out as something that I didn't like: Though it was title Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, the revealing of the Prince's identity was completely anti-climactic. I think that the reveal should have been a bit more exciting, but because of all of the other stuff going on, it was kind of just tossed aside.
And I wonder, how did the Marauders get ahold of the spells created by Snape to use them against him?
I might post more thoughts later, but I'm off for now.

[azalea]

It's annoying to have to spoiler everything, and even more to have to highlight entire lengthy posts to read them. Can't we just create a different thread, or split this one, so that one can be titled *SPOILERS INCLUDED*?

There is no doubt in my mind that Snape is on the side of good. He was following Dumbledore's orders in killing him. Dumbledore knew it was time, he didn't fear death, he was in pain. His mercy toward Draco was the sacrifice of his own life to save Draco and Snape both, as well as allow Harry to go forth on his path.

Snape and Dumbledore had argued -- Snape didn't want to do it, as Hagrid overheard. We witnessed an intense scene during the quest for the horcrux, wherein Harry is ordered to force an evil liquid down Dumbledore's throat, and use any means to do so. As I said on another site -- what would you have thought if that was the ONLY part you saw? Harry lying to Dumbledore and making him drink that? If you and I didn't know any better, we'd think he was committing an evil act. But he was simply being loyal and following D'dore's orders. Snape was, too.

[Khamûl]

that would make sense in a way, but that would mean harry couldnt finish Voldemort because Harry would have to die before Voldemort, i guess Harry could let Voldemort kill him because he had to and then let someone else finish off Voldemort, but i dunno, could happen i guess...
One possible way it could happen: Both Harry and Voldemort realize that Harry has a part of Voldie's soul as an unintentional Horcrux. Harry manages to fatally wound Voldemort's body, but Voldemort just laughs because he knows that he has other Horcruxes and that he will stay alive because Harry himself has 1/7th of his soul. Then Harry tells Voldemort that he's destroyed all the other Horcruxes, and right before Voldemort's body dies, Harry sacrifices himself. That would take care of all of Voldemort's soul and also make it so that Harry doesn't make it. That's how I'd do it, but then again I'm not J.K. Rowling and we're not even sure that Harry is in fact a Horcrux. :p

[Willow Oran]

Personally, I rather hope that Harry dies in the end. She's been making the series progressively darker and the casualty characters are becoming progressively more important. If she wants to continue this trend there is no possible way that she can allow Harry to survive. If she had a happy ending planned she would have saved the character who died in this book for the climax at the end of the seventh, now the final climax will have to be an all or nothing affair and since I think we are all agreed that the probability of Harry being the sixth horcrux is high, he can't just kill Voldie, he has to die as well, in order for the story to be successful.

[Falagar]

Well, I'm not sure the only way to destroy a Horcrux (or at least, the part of the soul) is to kill it. There are still many things we can't be sure of when it comes to them, and I think Rowling will have some solution in store. Perhaps Harry will realize he is a Horcrux, then sulk through the whole book about how he has to die, and then find some way to get around it. I agree that it would be a good ending if she decides to kill off Harry, but I don't think it's necessary in order to make a good ending, or the only way to pull off a satisfying climax.

[HOBBIT]

finsihed this yesterday (was taking my time with it ;)).

As someone has said in this topic, I immediately thought that RAB was Regulus Black (dead brother of Sirius Black who tried to go against Voldemort but was killed soon after) - it fits the best with what the ntoe said.


Imagine my shock when about 20-25 minutes I read a big spoiler in one of the topics here.....

Who dies and who kills him something like Snape kills dumbledore.... haha i just saved you 10 hours of reading

While at first 'knowing' who would die and who killed him was annoying - then the plot to kill Dumbledore and Snape's loyalty to Voldemort and his UNBREAKABLE VOW became more clear.

Kind of obvious that Dumbledore was going to die.

One of the biggest surprises was that Snape was the Half-Blood Prince. Of course, idiot spoilers, were looking to see who died instead.

[King of The Istari]

As much of a happy ending as that would be, I don't see it happening. It often happens in literature that the hero doesn't make it. Look at two of the oldest pieces of literature that we have: The Iliad and Beowulf. Hector, the protector and hero of the Trojans, is killed. Beowulf, after defeating Grendel and his mother, is mortally wounded in a fight with a dragon. Ever see the movie Gladiator? I have no problem with a hero making the ultimate sacrifice for what they believe in.

yeah and thats all fine and good but most children wouldn't see it as harry making the ultimate sacrifice but basically as death, that harry has either been murdered by the ememy or commited suicuide they wouldn't nessesarilly care that voldemort has been defeated and the rest of the wizarding world is saved but care that their hereo that thewy have been reading about in seven novels is dead

thats my two cents

[King of The Istari]

PS

Killing harry is not the only way for the ending to be succesfull!
may I remind everyone that this whole idea is based on a picture on the spine of only the british version and that the picture was done by an artist not by JK rowling so it may be nothing at all

AND

That is a picture of the ring after dumbledor destroyed the horox (sorry can't spell)
not the horox its self so the crack only apears after the horox has been destroyed (in the pensive scene, there is no crack in the ring but in dumbledore's office there is a crack that is nver really described, this is after the horox its self has been destroyed)

[durinsbane2244]

i was just thinking about ol' dumbledore's hand, and here's me theory:

DD said it was from his reactions not being so great anymore, so maybe he was dodging an avada kedavra and it hit his havd, thats hwy it looks dead, it is dead, but he used magic to prevent it from affecting the rest of him.

[Spock]

If the A.K. spell hits you anywhere, you die. It was probably another spell or hex that he didn't dodge completly, like a "withering spell".

[Nurvingiel]

Personally, I think we should be allowed to post spoiler tag-free. After all, one would reasonably expect this thread to have "Half-Blood Prince" spoilers in it after its released.

Rhudhaglarien,

I must say that thy Dad and me, we agree! :)
Dumbledore it MUST be! :(
Only then can JKR King crown Harry! :)
Who leads the OoTP, reclaiming Sovereignty! :D
From Voldemort, half-blood principality, :confused:
Usurper, governing malignantly! :evil:
'Til Harry redeems wizardry - :cool:
Fitting end to this septology! :eek:
But just in case...
The second post in this thread hit the nail on the head! I can't believe Snape killed Dumbledore. If he hadn't, Snape would have died, because of the Unbreakable Vow. He killed Dumbledore to save his own life at best, and murdered him on Voldemort's orders at worst. I was really shocked, I never suspected Snape. I did at the beginning, in the scene at Spinner's End, but then I thought... "Dumbledore trusts him, he must be covering himself as a double agent...."
What if Dumbledore discovered that he was one of the Horcruxes, and wanted Snape to kill him (as someone already suggested)? I've been reading some interesting theories about that and it seems to fit. (That maybe Dumbledore knew the potion was killing him... two skilled Legilimens (sp?) staring at each other...)

[Elfmaster XK]

I took the liberty of NOT USING THE SPOILER TAG. Nurv is right, the thread is about the book. Besides, we've had time to read it now, and those who are still reading should be sensible enough to not come on this thread yet.


PS

Killing harry is not the only way for the ending to be succesfull!
may I remind everyone that this whole idea is based on a picture on the spine of only the british version and that the picture was done by an artist not by JK rowling so it may be nothing at all

I disagree. This idea is not based upon the picture, it is based upon several things. I simply noticed the picture afterwards and thought maybe it was significant. In CoS when talking to Dumbledore about Voldermort transferring his powers Harry says "Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?" or something to that effect. I think this is an important clue. Harry saw himself as the snake in OotP. If Nagini had a part of Voldie's soul, as well as Harry it makes sense he would see from her eyes, not Voldemort's controlling the snake. As soon as he realises he is a horcrux too, Harry should be able to find the other pieces more easily.


AND

That is a picture of the ring after dumbledor destroyed the horox (sorry can't spell)
not the horox its self so the crack only apears after the horox has been destroyed (in the pensive scene, there is no crack in the ring but in dumbledore's office there is a crack that is nver really described, this is after the horox its self has been destroyed)

I disagree again, I'm afraid :rolleyes: I think that the ring, complete with crack was the horcrux and Dumbledore didn't know how to destroy it, so he kept it in the safest place he could. On his person. And in his office when he was in there. Harry notices that at some point the ring merely disappears. I think that was when Dumbledore had worked out how to destroy it. In the pensieve there is no crack in the ring because the Gaunts had it, and then Tom Riddle found it and had not yet put his soul into it.

What if Dumbledore discovered that he was one of the Horcruxes, and wanted Snape to kill him (as someone already suggested)? I've been reading some...

I don't think that's possible. The only way (we could know of) Dumbeldore being a horcrux was through drinking the potion. But, I think the letter in the locket was not fake, and it really had been stolen. Also, if he was, why would Voldmort be afraid of him? It makes no sense to give your greatest enemy something that powerful, which is why I think he didn't realise he'd done it to Harry. I think he probably does now though.

[Andúril]

All this hoo-haa about a Harry Potter book disturbs me a little.

So. Like. Here's a question: Is Harry Potter worth getting into? I liked LotR and The Silmarillion. Thanks in advance.

[King of The Istari]

I took the liberty of NOT USING THE SPOILER TAG. Nurv is right, the thread is about the book. Besides, we've had time to read it now, and those who are still reading should be sensible enough to not come on this thread yet.




I disagree. This idea is not based upon the picture, it is based upon several things. I simply noticed the picture afterwards and thought maybe it was significant. In CoS when talking to Dumbledore about Voldermort transferring his powers Harry says "Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?" or something to that effect. I think this is an important clue. Harry saw himself as the snake in OotP. If Nagini had a part of Voldie's soul, as well as Harry it makes sense he would see from her eyes, not Voldemort's controlling the snake. As soon as he realises he is a horcrux too, Harry should be able to find the other pieces more easily.



I disagree again, I'm afraid :rolleyes: I think that the ring, complete with crack was the horcrux and Dumbledore didn't know how to destroy it, so he kept it in the safest place he could. On his person. And in his office when he was in there. Harry notices that at some point the ring merely disappears. I think that was when Dumbledore had worked out how to destroy it. In the pensieve there is no crack in the ring because the Gaunts had it, and then Tom Riddle found it and had not yet put his soul into it.



I don't think that's possible. The only way (we could know of) Dumbeldore being a horcrux was through drinking the potion. But, I think the letter in the locket was not fake, and it really had been stolen. Also, if he was, why would Voldmort be afraid of him? It makes no sense to give your greatest enemy something that powerful, which is why I think he didn't realise he'd done it to Harry. I think he probably does now though.

But dumbledore SAID he had destroyed the horoux in the ring when he was telling harry about them AND the ring was still there

[Falagar]

All this hoo-haa about a Harry Potter book disturbs me a little.

So. Like. Here's a question: Is Harry Potter worth getting into? I liked LotR and The Silmarillion. Thanks in advance.
It's worth getting into. Very much so. Especially the later books (3-6, with the exception of The Order of the Phoenix). Unless you're very afraid of being ridiculed by literature-snobs...

[King of The Istari]

another thing about book 7,
Hasn't anybody thought that there is more skill in writing a ending in which both satisfies the audiance and doesn't end in the death of the hero

than writing an ending where harry dies, it would almost be like JK ran out of ideas!

[Elfmaster XK]

All this hoo-haa about a Harry Potter book disturbs me a little.

So. Like. Here's a question: Is Harry Potter worth getting into? I liked LotR and The Silmarillion. Thanks in advance.

;) Hello Andúril. In answer, yes it is. I didn't start reading them until after the 4th one was out because I refused to conform (or something like that). But a friend (Dwarven Sen) convinced me to start and since then I've enjoyed them. Just give the first one a read, but bear in mind a, they are supposed to be kids books and b, (IMO) they get better.

But dumbledore SAID he had destroyed the horoux in the ring when he was telling harry about them AND the ring was still there

Are you positive the ring was there when he was telling him that? I haven't checked, but I thought that the parts with the ring present were earlier in Dumbledore's lessons to Harry. He didn't tell him about the horcruxes remember? Harry had to find out what they were from Slughorn, and after that when they discussed them, the ring was gone. I think. I'm going to check on my re-read but I'm letting my mum read it once first before I start analysing! :p

[Andúril]

;) Hello Andúril. Hi EXK. How've you been?In answer, yes it is. I didn't start reading them until after the 4th one was out because I refused to conform (or something like that). But a friend (Dwarven Sen) convinced me to start and since then I've enjoyed them. Just give the first one a read, but bear in mind a, they are supposed to be kids books and b, (IMO) they get better.Hmmm. I'll consider it. :)

[Elfmaster XK]

Hi EXK. How've you been?

Hmmm. I'll consider it. :)

I've been..well. I'm good now, but I had a pretty crap year. Still, things going better now. What about you? Hope everything is alright.

You know what might interest you also are some of the analytical books on Harry Potter. I haven't read any of them, but I know other people who've enjoyed them. Apparently "smart people like them" (according to some stuck-up so and so) :rolleyes: I kept away. :p

[King of The Istari]

Are you positive the ring was there when he was telling him that? I haven't checked, but I thought that the parts with the ring present were earlier in Dumbledore's lessons to Harry. He didn't tell him about the horcruxes remember? Harry had to find out what they were from Slughorn, and after that when they discussed them, :p

I've just read the chapter, Dumbledore showed harry his blacked hand and harry said the ring, it never says the ring was actually presant or not but I've read all the "lesson" chapters and Harry does not notice the ring is not there till after seeing slughorn's memory and talking with dumbledore!

[inked]

Personally, I think we should be allowed to post spoiler tag-free. After all, one would reasonably expect this thread to have "Half-Blood Prince" spoilers in it after its released.


But just in case...
The second post in this thread hit the nail on the head! I can't believe Snape killed Dumbledore. If he hadn't, Snape would have died, because of the Unbreakable Vow. He killed Dumbledore to save his own life at best, and murdered him on Voldemort's orders at worst. I was really shocked, I never suspected Snape. I did at the beginning, in the scene at Spinner's End, but then I thought... "Dumbledore trusts him, he must be covering himself as a double agent...."
What if Dumbledore discovered that he was one of the Horcruxes, and wanted Snape to kill him (as someone already suggested)? I've been reading some interesting theories about that and it seems to fit. (That maybe Dumbledore knew the potion was killing him... two skilled Legilimens (sp?) staring at each other...)

Nurv,

You remembered! I am touched.

Snape is still a good guy. I like your point about two skilled Legilimens staring at each other.

Harry was petrified by Dumbledore to see what happened and not interfere. I think D was dying as a result of the potion drinking. I also think he had unsuccessfully contained one of the protective spells guarding the Horcrux in the ring and was being slowly and agonizingly killed by his containment effort. His request to Snape was to implement a previously designed plan to guard against this possibility and to secure the end of the Horcrux if D had (unintentionally) become a host to that evil in some manner. Thus Snape fulfills an unbreakable vow to D and to Narcissa, but the upshot is he still serves the Order. The difficulty will be in convincing Harry. Though I think his actions at the end, sparing Harry from the others, and instructing Harry in what he MUST needs do before facing Voldemort are very telling; I am not sure Harry sees them that way (yet)!

More to come (you know me!)

ANDURIL,
You really should read the entire HP series. Do not be put off by the designation of the books as a children's series. It is GREAT literature marketed as for children. Which is, IMHO, like saying NARNIA and MIDDLE EARTH are for children. Might be true on one level, but emphatically not true on most levels.

[Nurvingiel]

Thanks Inked :), and I agree with you about childrens' books in general (and especially Tolkien, Lewis, and Rowling :D). I don't care what genre a book is in, if it looks interesting, I'll give it a shot. I love the Harry Potter series! The first book is still my favourite, even though I love HBP!

But is it just me or did the plot seem a little disjointed, even rushed in some places? :confused:

I've just read the chapter, Dumbledore showed harry his blacked hand and harry said the ring, it never says the ring was actually presant or not but I've read all the "lesson" chapters and Harry does not notice the ring is not there till after seeing slughorn's memory and talking with dumbledore!
Harry notices Dumbledore's hand at the Dursleys, and for some reason I thought he noticed the ring then too. Maybe not though.

EDIT:
another thing about book 7,
Hasn't anybody thought that there is more skill in writing a ending in which both satisfies the audiance and doesn't end in the death of the hero

than writing an ending where harry dies, it would almost be like JK ran out of ideas!
No worries there, I think JKR wrote the first and last chapters at the same time. IIRC, she said that in an interview. I think the ending will be in true Rowling style - great, and completely unexpected. :D And most likely one or more grisly deaths will be involved. :(

[gollum9630]

my theory is that the potion that Dumbledore drank was the horocrux, the locket was a way of tricking people into actually taking the horocrux to try and get at what they believe was the horocux. However, Dumbledore knew this and therefore made pre arangments with Snape about what he had to do, and destroying the horocrux. Unfortuantely, whoever R.A.B beat Dumbledore there, unknown to Dumbledore, and therefore the ensuing event by Snape was not neccasary

hope that makes sense

[Khamûl]

King of the Istari, I believe I can see your point. Harry sees the ring when he and Dumbledore meet Slughorn for the first time. He also sees it at another point in Dumbledore's office (I can't put my finger on it at the moment). Later, this is what Dumbledore says:
"You are forgetting... you have already destroyed one [Horcrux] of them. And I have destroyed another."
"You have?" said Harry eagerly.
"Yes indeed," said Dumbledore, and he raised his blackened, burned-looking hand. "The ring, Harry. Marvolo's ring. And a terrible curse there was upon it too. Had it not been -- forgive me the lack of seemly modesty -- for my own prodigious skill, and for Professor Snape's timely action when I returned to Hogwarts, desperately injured, I might not have lived to tell the tale. However, a withered hand does not seem an unreasonable exchange for a seventh of Voldemort's soul. The ring is no longer a Horcrux."
I interpreted this as Dumbledore's hand was withered when he went and took the ring from Marvolo's house because it was concealed and protected by many powerful spells. Then once he had it, it wasn't a problem destroying the Horcrux. (We see later in the cave that it is quite an ordeal to even put your hands on a Horcrux that Voldemort has protected.) However, it does seem to be open to other interpretations, such as his hand was withered destroying the Horcrux, but the ring was still around afterwards, so it is possible to remove the soul without annihilating the vessel. I'm not sure if I agree with that, but I suppose it is a possibility.

[HOBBIT]

R.A.B = Regulus Black.

The locket was the horcrux - but R.A.B (most likely Regulus Black) had already taken it and replaced it with the fake with the note.

In book 5 didn't Harry find a locket at 12 Grimmauld Place? Could be it.

[King of The Istari]

There must be ways of destroying a horcrux without destroying the vessel it is carried in, for example the diary, it was pierced by the basalisk fang (I don't think the fang went all the way through) but was still there it just had a Blackened Burned hole in the cover (remind you of anything?) and ws covered in ink, So this makes me belive that when a horcrux is removed from its vessel it burns what ever it touches, like the diary, and if dumbledore was wearing the ring when the horcrux was destroyed his hand! So Maybe a horcrux can be removed safely but is only dangerous when it comes into contact with something, Imagine touching something that was pure evil it would do something wouldn't it?

[HOBBIT]

Let's puts to rest the whole "snape was working with Dumbledore" "Dumbledore told Snape to kill him" "Dumbledore isn't really dead" "Snape is really good not evil"

1. Ok he made an UNBREAKABLE VOW to help Draco carry out his mission to KILL DUMBLEDORE - not pretend to.

2. No one knew where Dumbloedore went or why except for Harry! Sure, Dumbledore "trusted" Snape at the time - but he certainly trusted all of his other teachers and did not tell them, hence McGonnagall asking Harry.

3. Snape had to be woken up by Flitwick - he had no idea otherwise that a Death Eater attack was going on or that Dubmledore and Harry had left and were returning.
Neither Malfoy nor Dumbledore told him.

4. No evidence that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him. All he said was "Severus..." But he is obviously now dead, and was previously talking Malfoy out of killing him. He was shocked at the betrayal.

[Lief Erikson]

1. Ok he made an UNBREAKABLE VOW to help Draco carry out his mission to KILL DUMBLEDORE - not pretend to.
I agree; I think Dumbledore is definitely really dead.
2. No one knew where Dumbloedore went or why except for Harry! Sure, Dumbledore "trusted" Snape at the time - but he certainly trusted all of his other teachers and did not tell them, hence McGonnagall asking Harry.
If Snape was on a special mission for Dumbledore, he might have been given instructions that Dumbledore didn't give the other teachers. I don't really understand what your point is here, though.
3. Snape had to be woken up by Flitwick - he had no idea otherwise that a Death Eater attack was going on or that Dubmledore and Harry had left and were returning.
Neither Malfoy nor Dumbledore told him.
I'm not following your train of thought. What does this mean?
4. No evidence that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him.
Hagrid did see Dumbledore and Severus having an argument earlier on in the book. It might have been something about that, although it's true that Snape had already made his Unbreakable Vow at that time. Maybe Snape was asking to give his life for Dumbledore?
All he said was "Severus..." But he is obviously now dead, and was previously talking Malfoy out of killing him. He was shocked at the betrayal.
I don't think he was shocked at all. But maybe that's just me :).

You need to note that J.K. Rowling has definitely still left some important things concerning Dumbledore's murder under wraps. She hasn't explained why Dumbledore gave Snape the Dark Arts job. She hasn't explained what that argument between Dumbledore and Snape was about. Most important of all, she hasn't explained why Dumbledore trusted Snape in the first place.

If book 6 was the one where she was planning to reveal the evil of Severus Snape, J.K. Rowling would have tied up the loose ends explaining his treachery, rather than leaving them all dangling into book 7.

I am quite sure that Snape is good :).

[BeardofPants]

Elfmaster, I think you're right about Harry being one of the horcruxes. I speculated as much over at SF-Fandom. It's an interesting postulation - would JKR be that mean?

[Khamûl]

There must be ways of destroying a horcrux without destroying the vessel it is carried in, for example the diary, it was pierced by the basalisk fang (I don't think the fang went all the way through) but was still there it just had a Blackened Burned hole in the cover (remind you of anything?) and ws covered in ink, So this makes me belive that when a horcrux is removed from its vessel it burns what ever it touches, like the diary, and if dumbledore was wearing the ring when the horcrux was destroyed his hand! So Maybe a horcrux can be removed safely but is only dangerous when it comes into contact with something, Imagine touching something that was pure evil it would do something wouldn't it?
But wasn't Dumbledore's withered hand his wand hand? I don't think he would have been wearing the ring on that hand and using his other to use his wand. (I'll have to check that out.) I also thought about the other known destroyed Horcrux (the diary). While it's true that Voldemort's soul was destroyed by the basilisk fang, I believe a fair amount of damage was done to the physical diary as well. Perhaps the soul was destroyed because its vessel was made uninhabitable. Which makes me think that even though Harry wouldn't have to be completely obliterated to do away with Voldemort's soul, Harry's body wouldn't be in an inhabitable condition by his own soul.

[Elfmaster XK]

Elfmaster, I think you're right about Harry being one of the horcruxes. I speculated as much over at SF-Fandom. It's an interesting postulation - would JKR be that mean?

I'm not sure...but you know, she killed Sirius and he was her favourite. So it's possible.

I also thought about the other known destroyed Horcrux (the diary). While it's true that Voldemort's soul was destroyed by the basilisk fang, I believe a fair amount of damage was done to the physical diary as well.


Remember though the fang of a basilisk is magical, as the creature is greatly so. And the poison is probably what helped destroy the horcrux.

[Lief Erikson]

Harry's too young to die.

[azalea]

But is it just me or did the plot seem a little disjointed, even rushed in some places? :confused:




This book differs somewhat in that there is not as much action for Harry (aside from some "action" with Ginny ;) ). The main plotlines for him surround Draco's and Tom Riddle's actions, not his own, so we don't have as much direct action for him until we get to the horcruxes. I think this lack of a strong and definate Harry plot throughout the book is what might cause that feeling.
For me, the books are no longer about the books themselves, but about the story as a whole, and I think that's why this one seems different. This book is almost like a chapter in the bigger story, to conclude with the next and final "chapter." It's kind of like LotR in that way now, IMO.

(another post coming)