Hobbit Questions

[ArwenEvenstar]

I was rereading the Hobbit last night and I read a couple of lines that have confused me.

Question # 1:
Not the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, about dragons and goblins and giants and the rescue of princesses and the unexpected luck of widows sons?

Was there any dynasties around that had princesses that needed rescuing? Or were they just stories that Gandalf (well, Tolkien really) made up?

Question # 2:
. . ." not without a mighty Warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting one another in distant lands. . .

Was there actually any battles going on at that time? Or was it just Tolkien writing that becasue it was his first book and he didn't bother writing anymore about them?

[Valandil]

I don't think Tolkien had thought out The Third Age at all when he wrote 'The Hobbit' - or even had any idea that there'd BE a 'Third Age'. He just made use of some of the things he had already created (Gondolin, Elrond, etc.) It could probably be explained away though. There'd be thousands of years to have opportunity for rescuing of princesses... and maybe there was enough strife going on along Gondor's borders - or maybe in distant lands beyond the areas we see on the maps in LOTR...??:)

[Dúnedain]

Actually I think he did have thoughts of other things going on, because remember wasn't his "first" story actually "The Fall of Gondolin", which was all basically about Tuor. Granted this wasn't published before the Hobbit, but he was telling it to people in 1916-17 and stuff...

[ArwenEvenstar]

I forgot about the fall of Gondolin, I am so dumb sometimes:rolleyes:

About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?

[Thorin II]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?

Semantics.;)

I think JRRT has his general histories in mind when he refers to this stuff, but I don't think he is talking about any particular princesses or battles.

[Ulmo]

Idril and Aredhel could be applied here (and Luthien if you try hard enough, heh...) though it's obvious that Tolkien wasn't pointing out anything specifically. The Lord of the Rings hadn't even been considered, but the world of The Hobbit was already being linked to the world of The Silmarillion. Gondolin seems the best fit, as previously stated - especially since Tolkien referred to Gondolin a number of times because of Glamdring and Orcrist.

Elrond -

These are not troll-make. They are old swords, very old swords of the High Elves of the West, my kin. They were made in Gondolin for the Goblin-wars.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?

I was trying to answer both questions separately. Just guessing that maybe heroes would be currently (at that time) fighting maybe around Gondor...

While there could have been any number of 'princess rescues' in the course of history before that time - whether princesses of Gondolin, Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Arthedain, Cardolan, Rhudaur, etc.

Just trying to 'cover' for JRRT!:D

[Ulmo]

The White Council was moving against Sauron's reappearance in Dol Guldur around this time - could've been what he was referring to (in retrospect).

[ArwenEvenstar]

Originally posted by Valandil
While there could have been any number of 'princess rescues' in the course of history before that time - whether princesses of Gondolin, Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Arthedain, Cardolan, Rhudaur, etc.
Just trying to 'cover' for JRRT!:D

Gondolin? GONDOLIN?! That place was gone before, I think, Hobbits even exsisted(sp).

[Valandil]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
Gondolin? GONDOLIN?! That place was gone before, I think, Hobbits even exsisted(sp).

Yeah - but Gandalf could probably still tell stories about it!:) Although actually, I don't know if the princess there ever needed particular rescuing... I had just seen Gondolin mentioned a few times in this thread and assumed it was about this - but I checked and I guess it wasn't... silly me!:D

[Spock]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar

Question # 1:

Was there any dynasties around that had princesses that needed rescuing? Or were they just stories that Gandalf (well, Tolkien really) made up? CONSIDER THAT MIDDLE EARTH WAS apart from the Wide World and therefore there was much going on that was not a concern of Hobbits or anyone near the Shire. Gandalf had traveled far and long and so knew of these places and their peoples.

Question # 2:

Was there actually any battles going on at that time? Or was it just Tolkien writing that becasue it was his first book and he didn't bother writing anymore about them? [/B]
AGAIN THERE WAS EVIL in the world at large but remember the world didn't pay attention or even know about the Shire. So yes there could have been battles being fought out there.

[Spock]

Hero's existed outside of the known world of the Hobbits and although some of them became Hero's they knew of none in their time. Gandalf did but as he said they were all engaged in other battles at the time and so he had to turn to the Hobbits.

[Fat middle]

Originally posted by Ulmo
Idril and Aredhel could be applied here (and Luthien if you try hard enough, heh...)

You can add Finduilas, Túrin tried to rescue her, but he didn't succeed.

[ArwenEvenstar]

Ya, I guess you guys are right, but the dwarves would know more about that stuff too (about the heros . . .) 'cause they would be doing a lot of traveling.

They wouldn't really be refered to as princesses would they, as far as I know Luthien was the only real princess, but Gandalf would probably dumb it down for the Hobbits.

[Ulmo]

Aredhel was the daughter of King Fingolfin; Idril was the daughter of King Turgon...that's why I listed them. Princesses.

[ArwenEvenstar]

whoops I forgot that. I really need to reread the Sil. I feel so stupid! ! !