Interesting 1 on 1's

[Turgon_Turambar]

In this thread i would like to see my fellow entmooters ideas on the what the greatest one-on-one battle would be.

I myself would like to see Sauron and Gothmog lord of the Balrogs go at it. I reckon Gothmog would show that 'lord of the rings' the meaning of pain.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, although we seem to be talking about what didn't happen, I don't think you can top what did, and that would be the one on one between Morgoth and Fingolfin. Although Fingolfin died, it was awesome. Hard to beat that one.

[Falagar]

Actually, Fëanor vs Morgoth would probably be better (IMO, of course). ;)

The two arch-enemies, face to face. Fëanor, anger flashing in his eyes, fire burning within. Morgoth, mightiest in Arda, his eyes revealing nothing. The hammer strikes - but hits thin air. Fëanor's sword flashes through the air...Morgoth's left hand falls lifeless to the ground.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, although we seem to be talking about what didn't happen, I don't think you can top what did, and that would be the one on one between Morgoth and Fingolfin. Although Fingolfin died, it was awesome. Hard to beat that one.

I agree that it is Fingolfin versus Morgoth. I especially liked the description of Fingolfin going to this fight as well.

P.S. Fingolfin would so kick Feanor's ass :D

[Jonathan]

What about Smaug versus Shelob?
Or even better - Glaurung versus Ungoliant. That would be an interesting and fierce one-on-one.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I agree that it is Fingolfin versus Morgoth. I especially liked the description of Fingolfin going to this fight as well.

P.S. Fingolfin would so kick Feanor's ass :D
You're going to pay for that one, half-brother! :p ;)

[Artanis]

Hmmm - Falagar vs. Dúnedain would be interesting ... :D

[leaker]

I think Tom Bombadil versus Saruman would be an interesting encounter. All I can imagine is Saruman casting his spells and Tom countering with all his musical songs and enchantments.

[Turgon_Turambar]

Yes indeed Glaurung and Ungoliant would be awesome. Does anybody know if the Spider can withstand fire??
Beacause the Balrogs whipped her with their fire whips and she ran away.

[Turgon_Turambar]

How about Sam and Ungoliant???? He was so tough fighting little Shelob what about the Big Muther of them all???

HOBBIT'S ON THE MENU KIDS!!!!!!!!!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Lobelia vs. Rosie?
Or Arwen vs. Eowyn (mud wrestling):D Of course, to make it a contest Eowyn gets one hand tied behind her back:cool:.


Oh, all right, Huan vs. Glaurung.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin

Or Arwen vs. Eowyn (mud wrestling):D

Wasn't that already in a commercial... except in a fountain - not in the mud?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Falagar
Actually, Fëanor vs Morgoth would probably be better (IMO, of course). ;)

The two arch-enemies, face to face. Fëanor, anger flashing in his eyes, fire burning within. Morgoth, mightiest in Arda, his eyes revealing nothing. The hammer strikes - but hits thin air. Fëanor's sword flashes through the air...Morgoth's left hand falls lifeless to the ground.

yeah I'd like to see that too!

[brownjenkins]

i always though gandalf vs. the witch-king would have been cool (the one that didn't quite happen)

i'll put in a vote for fëanor vs. anyone too... seeing that he was the one who basically made the first weapons for the elves

[Turgon_Turambar]

Feanor was cool but he was foolhardy. He ran into a bloody crowd of Balrogs and was rushed. But it was sad for him to be taken out of the story so soon.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Artanis
Hmmm - Falagar vs. Dúnedain would be interesting ... :D

I do have the height and stature of the Númenóreans, so he better watch out :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I do have the height and stature of the Númenóreans, so he better watch out :D Hey Dunedain, I see Falagar has edited his original post from calling you goldilocks, to half brother. Now if those aren't fighten words, I don't know what is.:D

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I do have the height and stature of the Númenóreans, so he better watch out :D
No Númenorean would ever beat an Elda. :p
Hey Dunedain, I see Falagar has edited his original post from calling you goldilocks, to half brother. Now if those aren't fighten words, I don't know what is.:D
I remembered that Fingolfin wasn't the blondie. ;) Shall we test wether or no thy tongue (or stick) is faster than my sword? :p :D

[Artanis]

Tongue?? LOL! :p

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Falagar
I remembered that Fingolfin wasn't the blondie. ;) Shall we test wether or no thy tongue (or stick) is faster than my sword? :p :D

Tongue? Sorry, I don't swing that way :p

[Lord Manafirogh]

Feanor was mightiest of the sons of Finwe. He was arrogant at times but if he fought Fingolfin I think Feanor would win mainly because when he died Tolkien says “Thus ended the mightiest of the Noldor.” Fingolfin is calmer and not as valiant has Feanor. Feanor is described has mightier in body mind and skill. To conclude I say Feanor would win in a one on one with Finglofin but it would be a fight to remember and probably a close one.

PS: I would like to see gothmog fight glaurung and Turin V Fingolfin, I would like to see how a men fights an elf. I’d put my money on fingolfin but Turin could snatch it, if he wasn’t cursed.

[Dúnedain]

Two fights that would have been awesome as well would be:

Ecthelion of the Fountain vs. Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

For those that don't know or remember, Ecthelion was a Lord of Gondolin and Warden of the Great Gate, here is a description of him from Unfinished Tales: "All in silver was he clad, and upon his shining helm there was set a spike of steel pointed with a diamond; and as his esquire too his shield it shimmered as if it were bedewed with drops of rain, that were indeed a thousand studs of crystal."

Ecthelion and Gothmog slew each other in their fight.


The other fight is the battle of Glorfindel vs. the Balrog, he was with Tuor & Idril and their young son Eärendil. He allowed them to escape by fighting the Balrog...

[Turgon_Turambar]

Are you nutz mr.manafirogh Turin vs Fingolfin?????????????

Filgolfin would slap him silly.

[Turgon_Turambar]

How about Turin vs Aragorn? or Hurin vs Durin (the dwarf)

[Lord Manafirogh]

Aragorn with Narsil would at least give Turin a sratch lllllolllll. the turin would cut him to pieces but dont underestamate an underdog. but we can safely say turin would destroy aragorn. lol

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Aragorn with Narsil would at least give Turin a sratch lllllolllll. the turin would cut him to pieces but dont underestamate an underdog. but we can safely say turin would destroy aragorn. lol How about those two with their reforged swords? Narsil=Anduril vs Anglachel=Gurthang

[Dúnedain]

Manafirogh I think you underestimate Aragorn. No offense to Túrin Turambar, but he was just a regular man, a man of old. Whereas Aragorn was of a richer bloodline, that of Númenor. Granted his bloodline was somewhat diminished, but it was still filled with greatness. Aragorn was referred to as 'the greatest traveller and huntsman in the third age of the world'. No less was he either as a warrior...

[Valandil]

Without having to go into bloodlines & such... I TOTALLY agree with Dunedain. I mean, maybe Turin was the best the First Age had to offer, as far as a human warrior... but he wouldn't stand much of a CHANCE against Aragorn! Aragorn (muh MA-un!) was tough! I don't think we ever see much of it in LotR - he doesn't get the big one-on-one showdowns with equal opponents. But he woulda taken Turin DOWN!

[Lord Manafirogh]

Without having to go into bloodlines & such... I TOTALLY agree with Dunedain. I mean, maybe Turin was the best the First Age had to offer, as far as a human warrior... but he wouldn't stand much of a CHANCE against Aragorn! Aragorn (muh MA-un!) was tough! I don't think we ever see much of it in LotR - he doesn't get the big one-on-one showdowns with equal opponents. But he woulda taken Turin DOWN

Ha! Aragorn is a great warrior but he hasnt got the stength of Turin. Turin was mighty in structure and the men of the first age are described far more stronger then the men of the third age by tolkien himself. Your forgeting what Turin has done. He killed Glauron althought he was cursed he was still a better warrior then most men in the first age (apart from his father Hurin who was probably one of the strongest warriors ever). Aragorn is my favourite character in lord of the rings but hes no match for Turin. Aragorn wasn't a direct Numenorian just heir of Isuldur and i think we all know that isuldur was so great anyway. In the two towers Tolkien says only the might of Turin could peirce the armour of shelob, i dont see him saying the might of aragorn could peirce the armour of shelob. although i think aragorn would have killed shelob with ease. Turin had the Structure of a Numenorian and scared of nothing. I dont think aragorn could even face Glaurung let alone kill him. Aragorn is a great worrier for the third age but in the first age men were stronger in mind and body.

[Turgon_Turambar]

im gonna have to agree with mr.manafirogh Turin was the son of the greatest warrior of men and he himself was counted among the greats. The men of the first age were different in body and mind to the men of the third age. Even though Aragorn was a great warrior Turins strength would crush him.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Anyway back to Feanor Vs Fingolfin. I know it says Fingolfin was stronger in page 60 but feanor was still the greatest of the noldor and he had the raging flame within him. I aint sure but i think he was of higher structure then fingolfin and allways i thinks is described as a better swords men allthough he didnt get the chance to fight much apart from before he died. It would be pretty close.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Anyway back to Feanor Vs Fingolfin. I know it says Fingolfin was stronger in page 60 but feanor was still the greatest of the noldor and he had the raging flame within him. I aint sure but i think he was of higher structure then fingolfin and allways i thinks is described as a better swords men allthough he didnt get the chance to fight much apart from before he died. It would be pretty close.

I believe it speaks of Fingolfin having that flame within as well. I will have to find it but it speaks of the rage showing in his eyes as he rides to challenge Morgoth...

Here it is:

...He passed overDor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.

[Artanis]

Concerning fiery spirits no one could match Fëanáro. He wore out his mother to the point that she wouldn't live anymore. His body was burned to ashes when he died. Fingolfin wasn't even close.

But whether Fëanáro's spirit would be much of an advantage in a fight with his half-brother, I couldn't say.

Bah. I actually loathe the thought of those two fighting each other.

[Turgon_Turambar]

What about Feanor and Sauron. When sauron has his ring on?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Artanis
Concerning fiery spirits no one could match Fëanáro. He wore out his mother to the point that she wouldn't live anymore. His body was burned to ashes when he died. Fingolfin wasn't even close.

But whether Fëanáro's spirit would be much of an advantage in a fight with his half-brother, I couldn't say.

Bah. I actually loathe the thought of those two fighting each other.

we all know that Fëanáro would win!!! I bet he could when against any other Elf too:D

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I'm inclined to give the edge to Fingolfin. The entire relevant quote seems to give the warrior's edge to Fingolfin and the inventiveness edge to Feanor:
Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. (perhaps a hint of the Boromir/Faramir differences).
Also, Feanor seemed a bit of a doofus in military strategy and tactics. Plus, Fingolfin was far classier. From The complete guide to Middle-earth:
Although insulted and attacked by Feanor in Eldamar, Fingolfin remained temperate and forgiving. He joined the revolt of the Noldor at the urging of his sons and to protect his people from the rashness of Feanor"

Do you suppose just before the 1-on-1 Fingolfin might say: "Dad always liked you best!"?:p

[Lord Manafirogh]

Everyone has their own opinion. I would be a close fight maybe 50-50. Im talking about feanor Vs fingolfin if your wondering.
Feanor and Sauron with the ring? That would be good. If sauron is not careless he should win but never the less if Feanor cut his hand of the fight would be over right? I think Sauron should win unless Feanor pulled an Isuldur lol! (struck lucky i mean). Or just cut his hand off and the fight would be over.

[Captain Stern]

Tuor of Gondolin: I'm inclined to give the edge to Fingolfin. The entire relevant quote seems to give the warrior's edge to Fingolfin and the inventiveness edge to Feanor:

Feanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant.


Not having the Silmarillion on hand, I can't provide the exact quotes, however it does say on at least 3 occasions (that I remember) in the text that said something to the effect of: "Feanor was the strongest in mind and body", "the mightiest of all the children of Illuvatar" e.t.c. This contradicts the quote you provided comparing the 3 brothers, which is nothing new in the Silmarillion. Personally I believe the passage you quoted to be from Tolkien's earlier drafts where Feanor was lesser than his later incarnation, the version of Feanor which is more prominent in the Silmarillion (Tolkien changed his mind a lot as I'm sure you know). Of course this is just my oppinion and guesswork.


Lord Manafirogh: Feanor and Sauron with the ring? That would be good. If sauron is not careless he should win but never the less if Feanor cut his hand of the fight would be over right? I think Sauron should win unless Feanor pulled an Isuldur lol! (struck lucky i mean). Or just cut his hand off and the fight would be over.

If Gil Galad and Elendil were able to defeat Sauron (even though they died in the process) then I would think that Feanor could have defeated him too, single handedly.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Sauron aint all that and we all know it. I do think thought he could beat any one in signle combat of the third age if he had the ring. He is a maia after all.

[Turgon_Turambar]

Sauron is just more than a maiar he was given terrible sorcerous powers by Morgoth and was very powerful. He beat Finrod in single combat which takes some doing let me tell you.
Dont underestimate the abhorred.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Yeah thats why i said no1 in the third age could beat him in single combat. and of course he was strong other wise any warrior would have killed him easly in the second age.

[Captain Stern]

Well he was stated to be the most powerful maia who allied with Morgoth. He was also mightier than Saruman aka Curumo who was was stated to be "mighty among Aule's people (or something to that effect)". I can't be sure, but it may have been hinted at that Sauron was the most powerful maia of all, but I can't back that up.

It never sat well with me that Gil-Galad and Elendil were able to beat Sauron in combat (and this when he had the ring). The only way the resolution of the combat makes sense to me is if Gil Galad was an extremely powerful Elf, on par with the likes of Fingolfin. Tolkien never gave him much exposure, so I think it's at least possible. On the other hand he never specifically mentioned it, which is why I still find their battle to be confusing.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Captain Stern
Well he was stated to be the most powerful maia who allied with Morgoth. He was also mightier than Saruman aka Curumo who was was stated to be "mighty among Aule's people (or something to that effect)". I can't be sure, but it may have been hinted at that Sauron was the most powerful maia of all, but I can't back that up.

What about Melian? I bet she was rather powerful...I wonder if she could beat Sauron????

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Captain Stern
It never sat well with me that Gil-Galad and Elendil were able to beat Sauron in combat (and this when he had the ring). The only way the resolution of the combat makes sense to me is if Gil Galad was an extremely powerful Elf, on par with the likes of Fingolfin. Tolkien never gave him much exposure, so I think it's at least possible. On the other hand he never specifically mentioned it, which is why I still find their battle to be confusing.

Well, don't forget where Gil-galad came from. He was the son of Fingon and the grandson of Fingolfin...Not to mention, but he was also the last High King of the Noldor, which included the likes of Finwë, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Fingon and Turgon...

[Lord Manafirogh]

Melian is more of a white maia. Shes no where near Saurons fight power, like i said feanor would beat morgoth in combat if he concentrated on his arm. However if Morgoth protected his hand Feanor would get tired and lose in the end. Sauron would wipe the floor with melian. Hes too evil. Melian doesnt fight. I dont know much about Gil-galad apart that he and Elendil defeated Sauron in the socond age. And they were slain by side by side in the last allaince of men and elfs.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Sauron would wipe the floor with melian. Hes too evil.Are you sure? Lúthien managed to trick Morgoth, who was much more powerful than Sauron, and she was only half a Maia.

[Lord Manafirogh]

What will melian do? Put him to sleep? im talking about fighting skills, like i said Melian does white magic and Sauron is a far more powerful maia then melian. She could probably make a sheild around herself but like it says in silmarillion the sheild can be broken by some1 more powerful so Sauron would probably brake that sheild (like the one around menegroth)

[Artanis]

Sure, if magic is prohibited ... :rolleyes:

btw: Neither Sauron nor Morgoth managed break the girdle.

[afro-elf]

Well, don't forget where Gil-galad came from. He was the son of Fingon and the grandson of Fingolfin...Not to mention, but he was also the last High King of the Noldor, which included the likes of Finwë, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Fingon and Turgon...

This a mistake of the Sil. Christopher states that Gil-galad is actaully the son of Oderth(sp)

If you do a thread search there is a discussion that clears it up.

Actually here is the link:


http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=638&highlight=galad

The Sil states that Hurin was the greatest mortal warrior ever. I would like to see him and Fingolfin spar in a friendly.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Did sauron or morgoth actually try and brake the girdle? im gonna check on that but i dont think that girdle has anything to do with the fact that melian wont be able to beat Sauron in single combat.

[Falagar]

Morgoth would of course have tried to break the girdle, he wouldn't have let Thingol and Melian live all those years in peace unless he wasn't able to attack them.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Ha! Aragorn is a great warrior but he hasnt got the stength of Turin. Turin was mighty in structure and the men of the first age are described far more stronger then the men of the third age by tolkien himself. Your forgeting what Turin has done. He killed Glauron althought he was cursed he was still a better warrior then most men in the first age (apart from his father Hurin who was probably one of the strongest warriors ever). Aragorn is my favourite character in lord of the rings but hes no match for Turin. Aragorn wasn't a direct Numenorian just heir of Isuldur and i think we all know that isuldur was so great anyway. In the two towers Tolkien says only the might of Turin could peirce the armour of shelob, i dont see him saying the might of aragorn could peirce the armour of shelob. although i think aragorn would have killed shelob with ease. Turin had the Structure of a Numenorian and scared of nothing. I dont think aragorn could even face Glaurung let alone kill him. Aragorn is a great worrier for the third age but in the first age men were stronger in mind and body.


Originally posted by Turgon_Turambar
im gonna have to agree with mr.manafirogh Turin was the son of the greatest warrior of men and he himself was counted among the greats. The men of the first age were different in body and mind to the men of the third age. Even though Aragorn was a great warrior Turins strength would crush him.

OK... regardless of bloodlines, which Age of the world, or even sheer brute strength, Aragorn would still have beaten Turin! Aragorn was just someone special. When Turin's praises were written, Aragorn hadn't been born, so he wasn't known for comparisons' sake.

The winner... ARAGORN!

[Lord Manafirogh]

OK... regardless of bloodlines, which Age of the world, or even sheer brute strength, Aragorn would still have beaten Turin! Aragorn was just someone special. When Turin's praises were written, Aragorn hadn't been born, so he wasn't known for comparisons' sake.
O I wish we could ask Tolkien, Aragorn wont beat Turin, never. Turin was thought to be one of the best of all time(of men that is) lets ask people ok? anone whos read both silmarillion and LOTR chose who'd win out of Turin and Aragorn in one on one combat??

[Captain Stern]

Falagar: Morgoth would of course have tried to break the girdle, he wouldn't have let Thingol and Melian live all those years in peace unless he wasn't able to attack them.

Boy, I wish I'd brought my copy of the Silmarillion to uni with me! I hate not being able to quote things. You will find that in one of the chapters there it says something to the effect of "The girdle would not be broken save if the Dark Lord himself ventured forth from Angband" (which of course he never did). Could somebody here who's feeling especially charitable find the quote for us?

Valandil: OK... regardless of bloodlines, which Age of the world, or even sheer brute strength, Aragorn would still have beaten Turin! Aragorn was just someone special. When Turin's praises were written, Aragorn hadn't been born, so he wasn't known for comparisons' sake.


The Edain were more powerful than any race of man in subsequent ages, which includes the Dunedain. It says so in the Silmarillion on more than one occasion. It's not up for debate. Hurin was stated to be the mightiest of all mortal men. Alone, surrounded by Morgoth's army, he killed 80 trolls before being captured. Turin, the son of this man, killed Glaurung, who threatened to decimate an entire army of men and elves when they assailed Agnband at one point.
Turin was given the leadership of the armies of Nargothrond in favour of all the powerful Noldor Lords positioned there. As we all know it came to a bad end, arguably because of Morgoth's curse. However this is irrelevant. The mere fact that he was chosen as Nargothrond's general speaks volumes.
And, personally, I always got the impression that the only man who ever lived that was mightier than him was his father. Aragorn, who was no doubt a great man, was not made of the same stuff as his distant ancestors.

[Captain Stern]

Here's an interesting one: Glorfindel vs. Sauron! Assuming he was present at the battle of the Last Alliance, the duel could have easily come to pass. He killed a Balrog in the 1st age and was stated to be even more powerful after he was re-embodied, so I think that encounter could have been really something.

[Falagar]

Boy, I wish I'd brought my copy of the Silmarillion to uni with me! I hate not being able to quote things. You will find that in one of the chapters there it says something to the effect of "The girdle would not be broken save if the Dark Lord himself ventured forth from Angband" (which of course he never did). Could somebody here who's feeling especially charitable find the quote for us?

There's a "The Girdle could not be broken, if one should not come with greater power than Melian the Maia" (or similar). Which means that Morgoth would probably have managed it, but not Sauron (since he came forth many times, without breaking it).

[Lord Manafirogh]

The Edain were more powerful than any race of man in subsequent ages, which includes the Dunedain. It says so in the Silmarillion on more than one occasion. It's not up for debate. Hurin was stated to be the mightiest of all mortal men. Alone, surrounded by Morgoth's army, he killed 80 trolls before being captured. Turin, the son of this man, killed Glaurung, who threatened to decimate an entire army of men and elves when they assailed Agnband at one point.
Thank you. At least some one understands. you'll find alot of people would agree with me. And i did say the men of the first age where of higher structure then the men of the third age. To conclude aragorn would NOT be able to beat Turin is single combat. Im afraid hes got a small chance, around 25% I'd say and being I'm generous.

[Arien the Maia]

Ok, what about Arien vs. Morgoth....or Sauron even? Take a loook at my sig and you'll see that Morgoth didn't have the power to assail her after a while....

[Lord Manafirogh]

I have an intresting one on one. Moroght v Tulkas. my money is on Tulkas. Morgoth in full power stands a chance.

[Turgon_Turambar]

When Morgoth was at full power he was strong enough to disrupt even the works of Eru. Only because he wasted his powers on evil he became weaker. If he fought Tulkas at his full strenght he would win hands down no competition.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Nah i disagree lol. Moroght was scared of Tulkas. Tulkas made him look like a fool every time. Morgoth was at full power before tulkas wrestled with wasnt he?

[Turgon_Turambar]

no when tulkas and morgoth wrestled the first time morgoth had already began to lose his powers to evil so there.

[Lord Manafirogh]

well i wasnt talking about good Melkor wen he was good. there would be no reason for them to fight i mean after he turned evil.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Morgoth was always evil.

[Lord Manafirogh]

no at the beginig he was good. says he worked for eru.

[Ninquelote]

I'm not going to get into the above...

But my favourite one on one would be Carcharoth versus Huan. Wolf against wolf, no real victor, y0! Great battle then.

[Captain Stern]

Carcharoth and Huan 'did' fight...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Ninquelote
my favourite one on one would be Carcharoth versus Huan. Wolf against wolf, no real victor, y0! Great battle then.
___________________________________

Probably outside this thread's parameters, but in cross-book matches, how about the three-headed Harry Potter dog (Fluffy?) in the first movie, against one of the above? I haven't read the HP books, and have no special interest in doing so, so don't know all that much about the animal's prowess.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Huan was a hound from valinor and he was mighty. fluffy was a big three headed dog with not much strength. it would a bit difficult but if he bit off one of his heads would he die? even morgoths dog would beat that over grown three headed puppy.

[Ninquelote]

Originally posted by Captain Stern
Carcharoth and Huan 'did' fight...

Yeah, I know... but it would be cool if they did it again? :D

[Turgon_Turambar]

how about Hurin and Turin Vs. Isidur and Aragorn tag team?

[Turgon_Turambar]

Troll from lord of the rings Vs. Troll from harry potter??

[Dúnedain]

Ok next person that mentions Harry Potter compared with Tolkien, may I wish they die a slow long death of gonorrhea and syphilis :D

[Lord Manafirogh]

lol that would be fun. my money goes on............... o crap its kind of hard to decide lol. frodo??? lol maybe potter with that dementors spell......

[Anglorfin]

OK for the sake of this thread not running of topic (and to freshen up the battlefield a little bit) let's toss a Dwarf in there.

We haven't heard much of a Dwarf fighting but I would say that in general Dwarves excel at close combat. How about Dain Ironfoot vs. Aragorn? I forget the exact quote but I think Gandalf said it somewhere about Dain being an unequaled warrior who could still wield an axe at a very late age, and in fact died in battle in his very late years.


Also what about the Balrog slayers? Why not seeing Glorfindel vs. Ecthelion? That would be a fight worth buying tickets for.

Or Beleg vs. Mablung. Another excellent fight though I think Beleg might have the upper hand.

Or MERRY VS. PIPPIN!! C'mon, their skill developement, stature, and experience was almost identical by the end of LotR. It would be an awesome fight!

[Turgon_Turambar]

If its with weapons then i reckon Aragorn might win but fists the dwarf will knock him silly.


Balrog slayers it has to be Ecthelion. he slayed GOTHMOG lord of the balrogs whilst Glorfindol slayed but a normal one.

Beleg and Mablung. im gonna have to back Beleg as when turin kills him it says something about him being the mightiest of his kind.

and merry vs pippin. i really would have to say merry but thats not a solid back i wouldnt put money on either coz they were so close. Pippin killed a troll. Merry just stabbed the witch king in the leg.

How about this one. Helm Hammerhand Vs Beorn??

That would be so cool. Helm was huge!! so dont think Beorn would just crush him. Helm was compared to a snow troll and with his hammer he would be destructive.

[Lord Manafirogh]

I would like to see Gimli take on Thorin okensheild.
Balin Vs Dain
Beleg Vs Legolas- i'd say beleg wins and teach legolas a thing or two about bows lol.
Aragorn Vs Isuldur-- i'd say aragorn would win. says he was more like elendil then anyother heir and i dont think Isuldur was such a great warrior. Apart from when he took the seeds of the white tree he hasnt impressed me.
That all three same kin fights.

[Anglorfin]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
I would like to see Gimli take on Thorin okensheild.
Balin Vs Dain
Beleg Vs Legolas- i'd say beleg wins and teach legolas a thing or two about bows lol.
Aragorn Vs Isuldur-- i'd say aragorn would win. says he was more like elendil then anyother heir and i dont think Isuldur was such a great warrior. Apart from when he took the seeds of the white tree he hasnt impressed me.
That all three same kin fights.

I was tempted to propose a beleg vs. Legolas fight but I knew that it would be a no-contest. Beleg would wipe the floor with Legolas.

Balin and Dain is a good one, but I'd put my money on Dain. They call him Ironfoot, that's gotta count for something.

I also wasn't too impressed by Isildur's skill. He may have been a good general in a pinch but I don't think a kingly life could compare to the life of wandering and border-watching that Aragorn had.

[afro-elf]

Isn't this a SILMARILLION thread. There seems to be a lot of second and third agers being mentioned. ( That ain't too bad as long as there aren't any new agers)

Would like to see the Dwarf Azaghal vs Turin or Beleg.

[Anglorfin]

Aye, perhaps this should be moved to the Middle Earth forum.

I forget, was Azaghal described as one of the strongest? I know it says he was the greatest and most well-liked dwarf king, and he did injure Glaurung, but other than that we really didn't get to see many in depth accounts of dwarves doing cool things in the first or second ages.

[Turgon_Turambar]

Azaghal vs Durin the Deathless in my opinion would be the best dwarf 1 on 1.

The best elf 1 on 1 i think would be Feanor vs Fingolfin.

The best man 1 on 1 has to be Hurin Vs his son Turin.

The best Maiar 1 on 1 i would like to see Gothmog slog it out with Sauron with his ring on and at full power.

The best Valar 1 on 1 maybe Tulkas and Orome but im not really sure.

[Anglorfin]

I would have liked to see Ulmo vs. Aule. They both seemed super strong to me. Aule was a smith and Ulmo controlled the vast waters of ME. Both have immensely powerful tools at their disposal.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Anglorfin
I would have liked to see Ulmo vs. Aule. They both seemed super strong to me. Aule was a smith and Ulmo controlled the vast waters of ME. Both have immensely powerful tools at their disposal.
It is said that "to Aulë was given little less might than Ulmo" somewhere in the Silm, so I'd bet on Ulmo. But it would have been a great battle...

[Turgon_Turambar]

I always thought Aule was more of a smith than a warrior.

[Thorin II]

How about this one. Helm Hammerhand Vs Beorn??

That would be so cool. Helm was huge!! so dont think Beorn would just crush him. Helm was compared to a snow troll and with his hammer he would be destructive. [/B]

Helm was a bad mutha, but I think Beorn would win convincinly. From the sound of it, he was utterly invinceable at the Battle of Five Armies. More destructive than a troll, I think.

Sorry for straying into the Third Age... :)

[Thorin II]

Going back to the beginning, what about Finwe v. Elwe (Thingol)?

[Turgon_Turambar]

I reckon Finwe would win. Thingol was a good warrior and all that but he didnt do much but slay Orcs. From Doriath he acted like the Lord of Beleriand when the Noldor came but to me he seemed more of a big mouth and no action.

Has anyone got any information on Helm? I want to kno more about this bad ass is there a website i can go?

And yea i agree beorn would win but i liked Helm to much to say.
But still HELM THE HAMMERHAND id back him. Erkenbrand i think was related to him and he was huge and powerful aswell.
(but not as huge and powerful as helm of course)

[Lord Manafirogh]

I just wanna see those two fight mainly because they have a good reputation but im not sure who would win so help me decide.

Also i would like to see Feanor with Maedhros Vs Durin with Dain. sort of a tag team.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
I just wanna see those two fight mainly because they have a good reputation but im not sure who would win so help me decide.

Also i would like to see Feanor with Maedhros Vs Durin with Dain. sort of a tag team.

Feanor without a doubt would win;) :D

[Lord Manafirogh]

i think you got it wrong this is like a family fight 2 against 2. but yeah i have to admit feanor and maedhros would win.(in my opinion)

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
i think you got it wrong this is like a family fight 2 against 2. but yeah i have to admit feanor and maedhros would win.(in my opinion)


oh I know, it's like tag team....I'm just saying that Feanor is the most powerful of all 4 of them:D

[Lord Manafirogh]

I have to agree with that but they all are great warriors especially maedhros whos probably the greatest of the sons of feanor.

[Lord Manafirogh]

I donno if any1 has already said about this one
Fingolfin Vs Sauron. That would be a good fight.
I recon Sauron wouldn't find it easy at all dealing with Fingolfin. he was fast and probably the strongest of the Noldor. i think Sauron would win sooner or later unless he runs form the battle. I donno maybe they would slay eachother.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"oh I know, it's like tag team....I'm just saying that Feanor is the most powerful of all 4 of them. oh I know, it's like tag team....I'm just saying that Feanor is the most powerful of all 4 of them"
_________________________________________

But what if it's Maedhros one-hand, after Thangorodrim. Might have a hard time in the tag-team match.:D

[Lord Manafirogh]

yep then he'd have to tage with his wrist.

[Anglorfin]

Who was the most powerful or most skilled in combat of Feanor's sons? I say a FFA would determine that. I'm thinking Maedhros but I am under the impression that Celegorm or Caranthir were pretty powerful too.

[Falagar]

How about Fëanor vs Sauron? Fëanor would beat him down easily! :D

[Turgon_Turambar]

Cmon gove Sauron some credit he was rated the most powerful Maiar. 1 on 1 with Feanor i think they might kill each other but Sauron would get another body, come back and mess up Feanors dead body!!

[Falagar]

No, his body would have been ashes long before Sauron even thought of reincarnating (remember what happend with his it when he was killed).
I can't remember that it is said anywhere that Sauron really was the strongest of the Maiar, but if Fingolfin could hurt Morgoth Fëanor could certainly give Sauron a good fight (he fought a long time with several Balrogs).

[Lord Manafirogh]

I say maedhros is the mightiest of the sons of feanor. 1 on 1 he would utterly destroy caranthir and curufin. He was one of the best elves in the first age if not of all time. Only few could beat him. Like feanor himself or fingolfin, i dout finarfin could.
Here is an intresting one. Maedhros Vs Fingon.
I know they were friends and everything but if they did fight i think it would be pretty close. Fingon was named the valiant and was strong.
Or even Fingon Vs Finrod. i say fingon beats finrod but not maedhros.

[Thorin II]

Originally posted by Falagar
How about Fëanor vs Sauron? Fëanor would beat him down easily! :D

With or without The Ring? With the Ring, I think Sauron would win.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Falagar
No, his body would have been ashes long before Sauron even thought of reincarnating (remember what happend with his it when he was killed).
I can't remember that it is said anywhere that Sauron really was the strongest of the Maiar, but if Fingolfin could hurt Morgoth Fëanor could certainly give Sauron a good fight (he fought a long time with several Balrogs).

It said Sauron was the mightiest of the Maiar, if I recall correctly...:D

Fingolfin > Fëanor :p

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Dúnedain

Fingolfin > Fëanor :p

No WAY!!!:D :p

Feanor had a much stronger spirit.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
No WAY!!!:D :p

Feanor had a much stronger spirit.

Feanor couldn't beat Gothmog and was slain by him, whereas Fingolfin put a whooping on Morgoth until he was crushed by him...

And spirit doesn't necessitate strength...

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Feanor couldn't beat Gothmog and was slain by him, whereas Fingolfin put a whooping on Morgoth until he was crushed by him...

And spirit doesn't necessitate strength...

yes, but wasn't Feanor surrounded by many Balrogs and not just one?...plus he fought for a long time too:p

[Arien the Maia]

ok, here's one...what about a Balrog (gothmog for instance) vs. Arien? They are both Fire Maiar but who is stronger? ;)

[Lord Manafirogh]

I dont like gothmog. hes a cheater. he doesnt face people face to face. For example he hit Feanor from behind when he was tired. If ecthelion could kill him one on one i think feanor would have had no problem killing gothmog, if gothmog steped up and challanged feanor to a 1 on 1. Feanor would kill Gothmog and survive unlike ecthelion.

[Turgon_Turambar]

Ecthelion was incredibly powerful. Lord of the Fountains!! what was Feanor!!! you know what Feanor was overrated. He was like hitler he could talk ill give him that but in all other areas he was a bumhole.

[Lord Manafirogh]

LLOLLLL hail Feanor the NAZI KING! lol sorry if anyone finds it offensive, just joking. no gothomog was a cheap overrated balrog. hes a pussy and u know it. comes behind ppl and hits them. hahaha

[Lord Manafirogh]

Lets put this to the votes.
Who would win in a 1 on 1
Feanor or Gothmog??

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Turgon_Turambar
Ecthelion was incredibly powerful. Lord of the Fountains!! what was Feanor!!! you know what Feanor was overrated. He was like hitler he could talk ill give him that but in all other areas he was a bumhole.
He was the greatest Noldo in all parts of body, mind and spirit. Fingolfin may have been the strongest, but strength is not all that matters in combat. :p And Fëanor was no dictator.

[Lord Manafirogh]

He was the greatest Noldo in all parts of body, mind and spirit. Fingolfin may have been the strongest, but strenght is not all the matters in combat. And Fëanor was no dictator.

I agree. unless ur talking about echthelion then i dissagree.

[Turgon_Turambar]

GOTHMOG!!!!! GOTHMOG!!!!!! GOTHMOG!!!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!

[Lord Manafirogh]

That vote does not count. only other people can vote.

[Falagar]

I agree. unless ur talking about echthelion then i dissagree.
Meant Fëanor.
Originally posted by Turgon_Turambar
GOTHMOG!!!!! GOTHMOG!!!!!! GOTHMOG!!!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!
Gothmog wouldn't stand a chance. ;)

[Lord Manafirogh]

1-0 to me!!!!!!!!!!
1-0, 1-0 1-0 1-0!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Manafirogh]

Who ever reads this has to vote.
Gothmog VS Feanor.
0 1 votes

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Who ever reads this has to vote.
Gothmog VS Feanor.
0 1 votes

Feanor!!!!

[Lord Manafirogh]

Gothmog 0 Feanor 2. hahaha yes! keep them coming people. Feanor Vs Gothmog in singe combat.

[Dúnedain]

Gothmog, it happened once, and would happen again. I shall leave you with a fitting quote:

"All is fair in love and war!"

[Lord Manafirogh]

Let me remind you that wasnt single combat. Gothmog hit feanor from behind when he was tired. never the less thats your opinion. so its 2-1 to feanor now.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Let me remind you that wasnt single combat. Gothmog hit feanor from behind when he was tired. never the less thats your opinion. so its 2-1 to feanor now.

Yeah so, Fingolfin got hit by Morgoth a few times and still stood fighting him, not relinquishing for a while until he was crushed...:p

Again I shall state:

Fingolfin > Feanor

hehe :D

[Thorin II]

Gothmog would win, I think, but for Tolkien, emotion seems to have a lot to do with this kind of thing. As powerful as Fingolfin was, he was clearly a weakling next to Morgoth. In my eyes, the his rage/righteousness/etc. was the reason he was able to wound Morgoth. My point is that if Feanor was sufficiently enraged, that may give him the edge. All else being equal, I think Gothmog was more powerful.

[Lord Manafirogh]

gothmog is not all that. only good fight he had was against Ecthelion and he go killed. shows he werent that great. to me he was a cheat. never fights by himself and one that he did he got killed. He is rubish. Of course he is the most powerful balrog but i still think he is a cheat and feanor would kill him in single combat.

[Turgon_Turambar]

Gothmog aint all that??????? are you mad!!!!! Your not giving Ecthelion any credit. And nobody was their to see that 1 on 1 so Ecthelion could have done some sneaky things too win and Gothmog still didnt lose it was a draw. they both died.

[Falagar]

But wasn't Fëanor a greater Elf than Echtelion? If Echtelion managed to kill Gothmog in single-combat (though killed himself) I believe Fëanor could have done better.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Thats what i think aswell. I think if Gothmog had dueled with Feanor before feanor got tired and fought at least 3 other balrogs then Feanor would undoutfully have won. I get the imprission Gothmog is rubish in single combat.

[Anglorfin]

Gothmog was powerful, but he didn't seem anything exceptional if one Elf could take him down single-handedly. Granted it would have taken an exceptional Elf to kill him, but those were still plentiful in the First Age.

This brings up another question. How many could actually have done it? Could Beleg? Or one of Feanor's sons? Or Fingolfin's or Finarfin's?


I reread a passage in FotR where Aragorn is bringing the Hobbits to Rivendell and meets up with Glorfindel. I think Glorfindel said something about the Nine together being too powerful for Aragorn and himself to stand against. Which leads me to wonder how many do you think they actually could have stood against? How about Glorfindel alone? Or even Aragorn without the element of surprise and fire?

[Dúnedain]

What about Ingwë? I know we don't know much about him, other than him being the High King of all the Elves...

I would assume that he would be pretty damn powerful...

[Turgon_Turambar]

Is that the Glorfindol from the first age who slew a balrog? If it was then i cant really see 9 Ringwraiths being more powerful than a Balrog. If it was the Glorfindol from the 1st age i reckon he would have been able to take the witch-king and four of the others. That leaves 4 for poor old Aragorn. Maybe if he had Anduril and was angry or they had just slain Arwen then he would have been able to do it.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Gothmog was powerful, but he didn't seem anything exceptional if one Elf could take him down single-handedly. Granted it would have taken an exceptional Elf to kill him, but those were still plentiful in the First Age.
So you would agree that Feanor could kill him in single combat or not?

[Falagar]

That sounds like a yes to me. ;)

[Lord Manafirogh]

I my self im convienced Feanor could beat Gothmog is single combat, even if he is lord of the balrogs. Not many people or balrog could beat Feanor in single combat. Only 1 i can see beating him apart from morgoth is glaurong and maybe a few other i cant think of right now.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
I my self im convienced Feanor could beat Gothmog is single combat, even if he is lord of the balrogs. Not many people or balrog could beat Feanor in single combat. Only 1 i can see beating him apart from morgoth is glaurong and maybe a few other i cant think of right now.

So basically you are calling Feanor weaker than a man, since Turin defeated Glaurung...:p

Again, Fingolfin > Feanor :D

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
So basically you are calling Feanor weaker than a man, since Turin defeated Glaurung...:p

Again, Fingolfin > Feanor :D
Túrin cheated. :p The outcome of Fëanor vs Glaurung would depend on the situation.

Fingolfin < Fëanor

[Turgon_Turambar]

oh c,mon now. your taking it too far. Feanor Vs Glaurung. NO WAY!!!!!! im telling you now if anyone says Feanor can beat Glaurung in single combat if Glaurung KNOWS hes there and in front theres seriously something wrong with them. NO ONE - not even Fingolfin could kill him in single combat.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Turin went from underneath glaurong and when glaurong was asleep. I dont think Feanor could beat glaurong unless he was in the same situation has Turin. Face to face like at the bridge when glaurong first met Turin i dont think Feanor would have much chance. It would take feanor fingolfin and Turin to beat glaurong. Or maybe just Feanor and Fingolfin if they stood apart so glaurong could freeze them both. you know what i mean with the eyes. he has to look at them.

[Lord Manafirogh]

This is about Gothmog Vs Feanor
I'd like people to vote on the outcome of that. lets not go jumping subjects just yet.

[Turgon_Turambar]

Now way. He dont have to freeze them - feanor and fingolfin. If it was the battle on the bridge he would use his flame on 1 then lash his tail on the other. end of.

[Lord Manafirogh]

Did u see morgoth just swing his hammer once and kill fingolfin? Its not that easy. he was to deal with 2. they not just gonna stand there and do nothing. anyway this is about FEANOR VS GOTHMOG

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Lord Manafirogh
Turin went from underneath glaurong and when glaurong was asleep. I dont think Feanor could beat glaurong unless he was in the same situation has Turin. Face to face like at the bridge when glaurong first met Turin i dont think Feanor would have much chance. It would take feanor fingolfin and Turin to beat glaurong. Or maybe just Feanor and Fingolfin if they stood apart so glaurong could freeze them both. you know what i mean with the eyes. he has to look at them.
Túrin was a mortal man, and his spirit wasn't as great as Fëanor's (far from it). We don't know how much Glaurung's spell would have affected (though I do think it would have affected him, but not as much).

[Lord Manafirogh]

Feanor cant kill glaurung alone. Face to face Glaurung would kill feanor (and feanor is my fav of the noldo) but glaurung was too evil. Feanor would need to make a brilliant sword and armour for himself if he would stand any chance of killing glaurung.
With Turin and Fingolfin on Feanors side i do believe they would win. But it wouldn't be easy even then.

[Turgon_Turambar]

C,mon no way. Dragons are the worst most strongest things even in middle-earth. Im tellin you now you cant fight a dragon like that.

[Andúril]

Eonwe vs [Sauron (w/ring) + balrog]

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Captain Stern
Well he was stated to be the most powerful maia who allied with Morgoth. He was also mightier than Saruman aka Curumo who was was stated to be "mighty among Aule's people (or something to that effect)". I can't be sure, but it may have been hinted at that Sauron was the most powerful maia of all, but I can't back that up.


I don't know if it ever says who the most powerful was.

It does state that Eonwe (Manwe's herald) was "The mightiest in arms in Arda" (arms as in weapons)
And that Olorin was the wisest.