View Full Version : Samwise the incompetent spy
Bacchus
12-11-2003, 08:59 PM
The conspiracy of Merry, Pippin, Fredegar Bolger, and Sam was formed to keep an eye on Frodo and to assist him when he ultimately left the Shire. Merry had known about Bilbo's ring for years, and had even seen the Red Book.
Sam was identified as the chief investigator and spy for the conspiracy, and the source of much of their information. However, he is said to have "regarded himself as on parole" after being caught by Gandalf and ceased sharing information.
But...
Sam was caught during the very conversation in which Gandalf identified the Ring. What information could he have given to the conspiracy?
Ilúvatar
12-11-2003, 09:56 PM
Gandalf does come and go several times between the party and the time he tells Frodo the history of the Ring. I also always thought that it was mostly that they wanted to know what Gandalf was saying to Frodo during all those visits and just a general interest in the Ring. They mention they know the Ring makes a user invisible and that Gandalf has some interest in the Ring, but I think that is as far as Sam was able to give them.
Attalus
12-11-2003, 11:56 PM
I have always thought that Samwise had quit supplying information to the conspiracy, but was eavesdropping on his own hook, that night. Eru knows that I would have. ;)
cassiopeia
12-12-2003, 01:32 AM
I thought Sam told Merry and Pippin that Frodo would be leaving the Shire, not living at Crickhollow like he pretended to everybody else. But then Merry and Pippin had guessed this because of Frodo's mutterings, so it probably wasn't important. Merry had seen Bilbo's book, but it would have only been The Hobbit and maybe parts of The Silmarillion, and he only had a quick glance. He probably didn't know the Ring was evil, so Sam might have supplied that information.
It's said in the book Sam collected a lot of information before he was caught. I think Sam was keeping an eye on Frodo, making sure he didn't take off without the other conspirators' knowledge.
Attalus
12-12-2003, 03:01 PM
Well, everybody in Hobbiton was agog with Gandalf's visit, no doubt. Sam probably suspected that Frodo might go off with him or because of him, as Bilbo had done. That's why he gasped. His suspicions were confirmed!
Bacchus
12-12-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by cassiopeia
It's said in the book Sam collected a lot of information before he was caught. I think Sam was keeping an eye on Frodo, making sure he didn't take off without the other conspirators' knowledge. That's my point. What information was there to give (besides the trivial "Frodo had sausages and bacon for second breakfast today") before he was caught?
Attalus
12-12-2003, 05:32 PM
Well, the negative information that he hadn't been packing, I guess.:D
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