Yule-tide in Eriador - Speculation

[Valandil]

Since one of Tolkien's purported purposes was to create a mythology for England, I wonder if his inclusion of a "Yule" season in the calendars of the Shire and Arnor represents the start of an attempt to explain the origins of the (pre-Christian) Christmas traditions of Northern Europe.

In Appendix B, I believe he only mentions the "Yule" as part of the Shire calendar. Yule 1 is the last day of each calendar year, and Yule 2 is the first day of the next calendar year. In "Peoples of Middle Earth" this is also the custom in Arnor (but not Gondor - maybe the early-mid winter celebration is more needful where the winters are harsh). Also - he says there that the Yule season extended to the week before and the week after. (Uh - I think I got those details right - but it's been a couple months since I read it.)

So - now that we're just 12 days from ROTK, and just 20 days from Christmas, I'm thinking Christmassy thoughts - and can't help a Middle-earth overlap.:)

I envision maybe big family gatherings for the Northern Dunedain - as well as opportunities for all the unmarried young folk to get acquainted. Maybe a nice warm fire, with a Yule Log, maybe the use of an Evergreen Tree (lighted?), decorations of holly & ivy, maybe mistletoe :D ... heck, maybe even some traveling minstrel elves joined the festivities, dressed in bright red & green... feasting, singing, gift-giving, sleigh rides, romance (EDIT: Oh - and snowball fights!!)... whatever would create memories to help you get through the next 2-3 months of a northern winter without central heating, humidifiers, modern insulation, etc.

So... anyone else want to add to my vision of Yule-tide in early/mid third age Arnor and associated areas??? Especially interested in input from our Euro-friends, who might be more familiar with the actual origins of some of these things. I imagine that even the customs we imported or brought here with us are practiced differently than they are back in Europe...

[ethuiliel]

When I read that, I did notice that the word Yule was used, which is also used for Christmas. I guess there must be some connection, but I don't quite know what. Your ideas were interesting.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by ethuiliel
When I read that, I did notice that the word Yule was used, which is also used for Christmas. I guess there must be some connection, but I don't quite know what. Your ideas were interesting.

Thank you!

Yes - the Romans had some sort of winter solstice celebration - which I think was sort of incorporated into Christmas when the Roman Empire was Christianized. In northern Europe, the Celtic / Germanic peoples also had celebrations at that season - so as they became Christianized themselves, those customs worked their way into Christmas. I think a great number of our traditional Christmas symbols come from the latter - like evergreen trees, holly & ivy, etc (though of course, not the Baby Jesus, Joseph & Mary, Angels, Wise Men, etc.:) ).

Not sure of the origins of the word 'Yule' - but since Prof Tolkien was so interested in developing a mythology (ie, a quasi-historical setting to explain how things came to be) for England, I would guess this was also from those ancient northern Europeans. Anyone else know? I think I've heard there was a "Yule Log" which was burned at this time... anyone know much about that??? :)

[Valandil]

Are we close enough to Christmas yet for me to bump this one?

[Wayfarer]

the Romans had some sort of winter solstice celebration - which I think was sort of incorporated into Christmas when the Roman Empire was Christianized. Mithrasmas. December 25. The Church of Rome did the same thing with Easter (Beltane), and Halloween (Samhain's Eve), and even Ground Hogs Day. :rolleyes:

So, what does that have to do with Yule in Middle Earth? Very little. :D\

Tolkien did make an impressive show of corrolating the Shire Calendar with the Gregorian Calendar. I'm expecially fond of his explaination of where the days of the week come from (Star-day, Sun-day, Moon-day, Trees-Day, Heaven's-day, Sea-day, High-day). Much nicer than the real origin of the days of the week (taken from the names of the roman and norse gods)

[Attalus]

Merriam-Webster's Unabridged has this etymology: Yule

\Yule\, n. [OE. yol, [yogh]ol, AS. ge['o]l; akin to ge['o]la December or January, Icel. j[=o]l Yule, Ylir the name of a winter month, Sw. jul Christmas, Dan. juul, Goth. jiuleis November or December. Cf. Jolly.] Christmas or Christmastide; the feast of the Nativity of our Savior.

It seems to be the Anglo-Saxon celebration of the Winter Solstice, which would predate them celebrating Christmas. I have not a clue as to what the celebration would entail, but, in the Shire, I suspect large family gatherings with lots of beer, food and presents. That's how they seem to have celebrated everything else.

[Forkbeard]

Thank you!

Yes - the Romans had some sort of winter solstice celebration - which I think was sort of incorporated into Christmas when the Roman Empire was Christianized.

Absolutely and on purpose on that one. It was part of the campaign in the late 300s, early 400s of converting everyone by the sword and worrying about their souls later, to paraphrase Augustine. So the church, which did honor the Lord's birth, just at different days in different places, decided that one good conversion technique was to make some Christian celebrations close to the pagan ones...and then the pagans would be happy, would come to church and hear the gospel. So Dec. 25 was chosen for a number of reasons that I won't go into, only one of which was the solstice celebration and Sol Invictus.

[Michael Martinez]

Since one of Tolkien's purported purposes was to create a mythology for England, I wonder if his inclusion of a "Yule" season in the calendars of the Shire and Arnor represents the start of an attempt to explain the origins of the (pre-Christian) Christmas traditions of Northern Europe.[/b]

Since the Middle-earth mythology is not the mythology for England (that would be The Book of Lost Tales), your question is a non sequitur.

That said, the fallacy in your reasoning can easily be redirected toward an interesting extrapolation regarding Hobbit customs in the Vale of Anduin.

With the Shire calendar,Tolkien was clearly addressing an obvious ancient northern (European) tradition (the observance of winter solstice) in colloquial Hobbit fashion. (That is, they didn't have dreadful winters in Gondor, although the Ered Nimrais experienced snowfall -- hence, the special observations of winter were peculiar to the northern peoples).

In Appendix B, I believe he only mentions the "Yule" as part of the Shire calendar. Yule 1 is the last day of each calendar year, and Yule 2 is the first day of the next calendar year. In "Peoples of Middle Earth" this is also the custom in Arnor (but not Gondor - maybe the early-mid winter celebration is more needful where the winters are harsh). Also - he says there that the Yule season extended to the week before and the week after. (Uh - I think I got those details right - but it's been a couple months since I read it.)

The etymology (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=y&p=1) of "Yule" indicates it was an old Anglo-Saxon name for a two-month winter period. Hence, he used the Foreyule and Afteryule month names to mirror the Anglo-Saxon custom -- a linguistic borrowing similar to his use of Old English to represent the language of Rohan. The Hobbits, prior to entering Eriador, spoke a language closely related to the the language of Rohan -- and the influence of that language on Hobbitish was represented (by Tolkien) by selected Old English/Middle English words.

Source: Appendix B --

In this nomenclature the Hobbits, however, both of the Shire and of Bree, diverged from the Westron usage, and adhered to old-fashioned local names of their own, which they seem to have picked up in antiquity from the Men of the vales of Anduin; at any rate, similar names were found in Dale and Rohan (cf. the notes on the languages...).

The Hobbits no longer knew the meanings of the names, but they were quite ancient by the end of the Third Age (and thus Tolkien used Middle English rather than Old English to represent them).

The lithe months draw upon a Middle English usage referring to weather to name the mild summer months (mild in the north, of course).

In the Shire, the Lithedays (the middle days of the year) and the Yuledays (the last and first days of the year) were "the chief holidays and times of feasting". The retention of the names in the calendar implies that these traditions were more likely related to the customs of the Vales of Anduin than the customs of Eriador (although there were Edainic peoples in Eriador in the Second Age, we don't know what customs the Numenoreans retained when they founded Arnor).

The feasting would correspond with the ancient Germanic (heathen) feasts which were adapted by Christianity. The Shire-folk would no longer understand why the feasts were celebrated. But the discussion of the calendars implies they may have inherited ancient customs associated with the feasts (one can imagine songs, dances, and decorations -- perhaps even old stories in modified form).

To that extent, I envision larger gatherings, perhaps of clans and villages, rather than simply family celebrations.

[Manveru]

It is obvious that one of the Lossoth (remnant of the Forodwaith that live on the Cape of Forochel) used to come down to Arnor and the Shire and Bree on a sleigh of reindeer and slid down the chimneys to deliever presents to the good little dunedain, hobbits, and other boys and girls. They would hang stockings on their mantelpiece (except the hobbits who didn't wear anything on their feet) and put up a mallorn tree with decorations and...

no wait scratch that. Cirdan was Santa Claus. He does look the part Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and he was grey and old. The elves at the grey havens made toys for him to bring to everyone once a year. Hence the idea of elves making santa's toys.

[sun-star]

Apologies for my silly, slight OT question:

I think I've heard there was a "Yule Log" which was burned at this time... anyone know much about that??? :)

Did you ask this because you don't have Yule Logs in America? (either a real log that you burn on the fire, or a chocolate version of a log?)

[Valandil]

Finally getting a chance to read 'The Athrabeth...' from Morgoth's Ring.

I noted the use of the word 'Yule' - so perhaps Tolkien intended this to be a VERY old term among Men... possibly Elves as well - since it makes an appearance in this First Age story. :)

[Lostyia Delr-Padroot]

as it has been repeated some call christmas "yule". yule is also an wiccan holiday for the 21st of december.(it is for the winter solstice. )

[Pytt]

yes, for example here in Norway we call it 'Jul', which is almost the same thing as Yule.

[Artanis]

yes, for example here in Norway we call it 'Jul', which is almost the same thing as Yule.A fact Tolkien was well aware of. :) I came by this in "Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings" by JRRT:
Yule. The midwinter counterpart of Lithe. It only occurs in The Lord of the Rings in Appendix D, and 'Midwinter' only occurs once during the main narrative. The midwinter festival was not an Elvish custom, and so would not have been celebrated in Rivendell. The fellowship, however, left on December 25, which had then no significance, since the Yule, or its equivalent, was then the last day of the year and the first of the next year. But December 25 (setting out) and March 25 (accomplishment of the quest) were intentionally chosen by me.
In translation, Yule should like Lithe be treated as an alien word not generally current in the Common Speech. It should therefore be retained, though with a spelling suitable to the language of translation: so for example in Danish or German spelt Jule. Yule is found in modern English (mostly as a literary archaism), but this is an accident, and cannot be taken to imply that a similar or related word was also found in the Common Speech at that time: the hobbit calendar differed throughout from the official Common Speech calendars. It may, however, be supposed that a form of the same word had been used by the Northmen who came to form a large part of the population of Gondor (III 328), and was later in use in Rohan, so that some word like Yule was well known in Gondor as a 'northern name' for the midwinter festival; somewhat like the appearance in modern German of Jul (as a loan from the North?), in such words as Julblock 'Yule-log' and Julklapp (as in Swedish and similarly in Danish). In Scandinavia, of course Jule would be well understood.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Apologies for my silly, slight OT question:



Did you ask this because you don't have Yule Logs in America? (either a real log that you burn on the fire, or a chocolate version of a log?)
my mum makes a brilliant chocolate yule log,
and she uses a cadbury mini roll as a branch sticking out

i would imagine times of feasting, singing and storytelling in fornost
as a yule time holiday

[Valandil]

Today is the First Day of Winter... which was originally when the 'Yule' was set (though I don't know if it's 'Yule 1' of the Old Year or 'Yule 2' of the New Year - I suspect the latter).

So...

HAPPY YULE!!!

:) :p :D

[Pytt]

HAPPY YULE evryone! :D
this is the day the sun "turns".

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

HAPPY YULE

[ethuiliel]

HAPPY YULE

[Earniel]

Happy Yule!

Too bad I spent the largest part of the Longest Night studying for an exam that didn't go well anyway. *sigh* Think Happy Yule-thoughts, Eärniel, happy thoughts, it'll be holidays soon...

[Valandil]

Happy Yule!

Too bad I spent the largest part of the Longest Night studying for an exam that didn't go well anyway. *sigh* Think Happy Yule-thoughts, Eärniel, happy thoughts, it'll be holidays soon...

Fear not, for lo, I bring you good tidings of great joy! ;)

IIRC, the Yule was celebrated for a full week before AND a full week after!! :p :D

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Happy Yule!!

Yes, that time when Gandlaf, in his sleigh drawn by 8 Balrogs, drops presents of Pipe Weed down little Hobbit-boys and Hobbit-girls' chimneys!!

[Valandil]

Goodness... high time to *bump* this thread once more! :p

As I understand it, the Winter Solstice (er... Summer Solstice for you folks south of the Equator) comes just about 14 hours from now.

Funny... we've already had lots of cold and snow here in Chicago - and it's still autumn! :D It was 5 degrees F last night - and supposed to be that again tonight. The 6" snowfall from almost two weeks ago is still on the ground.

And now... we have WINTER to look forward to! (perhaps it's that White Queen Lady! Forever Winter!! :eek: )

Anyway...

Happy Yule!! :)

[Butterbeer]

...boy that MMartinez can be a bit pompous - or is that just his writing style?

anyway ... HAPPY YULETIDE all!

[Valandil]

...boy that MMartinez can be a bit pompous - or is that just his writing style?

No comment... but for all the times I've read his post, I still have to look up 'non sequitor' to remind myself what it means. :p

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Happy Yule!

[Snowdog]

I guess Yule was a big deal to hobbits since they focus on it in their calender.

But to the Dunedain there were two distinct days not associated with the last month of the year (Ringarë) and the first month of the year (Narvinyë).

Mettarë (last day) and Yestarë (first day) was a two day holiday observed by the Dunedain over the winter solstice. The Elves observed the last day and the first day in the spring.