Lost in Time?

[Maedhros]

From The Hobbit: Flies and Spiders
So to the cave they dragged Thorin-not too gently, for they did not love dwarves, and thought he was an enemy. In ancient days they had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bar- gained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay. If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old.
Hmmmm, it is interesting. This is of course a reference to the dwarves of Nogrod and the Elves of Menegroth. If one reads Of the Ruin of Doriath, PS, one notices that indeed there was a quarrel between the dwarves and Thingol because of the NauglamÃ*r (and the Silmaril), but there is no mention anywhere about the raw gold and silver that they were working for.
The answer of course can be found in the Book of Lost Tales II: The Tale of the Nauglafring, in which Húrin (kind of) brings the treasure of Nargothrond to Doriath (Artanor) and because Thingol (Tinwelint) is a poor woodland Elf King, he uses the dwarves as the smiths of this treasure. The chapter Of the Ruin of Doriath, has been edited heavily by CT based on several ideas as how to resolve certain problems, such as where Thingol died, and how.

My question to you is this: Do you think that being The Hobbit a published book by JRRT, that CT should have taken the working of the gold and silver by the dwarves and included it in his version of the Silmarillion?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"In ancient days they had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bar- gained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay"
________________________________________________

Well, While the Doriath/dwarf connection is common knowledge, I somehow missed the clear reference above to shaping raw gold and silver. This seems to me to make it canon and CT in error in ignoring it. However, the people working on the Silmarillion project should probably be consulted, since they seem quite knowledgable in such affairs related to the first age. (For my part I haven't been able yet to work myself up to gettting into such works as Home). Biography, Letters, and Unfinished Tales are quite enough for the time being, given work and other calls on ones time.

[Maedhros]

I'm not looking for a canonical answer to the question really. CT had basically 3 texts to work in the making of that Chapter: The Wanderings of Húrin, Tale of the Nauglafring and the Quenta Noldorinwa.
The "Wanderings" (which is the latest) unfortunately does not reach the part when Húrin comes to Doriath, so we have only the "Tale" and the "Quenta". In both of those texts, there is the broken promise of reward by Thingol because of their labours.
CT in the making of that chapter in the Published Silmarillion omitted the bringing of the Nargothrond hoard to Menegroth, thereby removing the request and reward for their labours of working with the gold, and it was replaced by the merging of the NauglamÃ*r (which in the Published Silmarillion was made by the dwarves to Finrod Felagund) with the Silmaril.

I'm asking for people opinions on this matter. Is the material in The Hobbit sufficient enough to reintroduce the hoard of Nargothrond in a Revised Ruin of Doriath?

[Artanis]

It still looks like you're asking for canon, but then asking for people's opinion is basically the same thing since everyone seem to have their own canon. :D

I would answer yes, because as you said, The Hobbit was published by JRRT, and The Hobbit and the Quenta was the last texts JRRT wrote on the matter.

I'm intrigued on why you're asking this question.

[azalea]

I think he is trying to write a revised version of it.

My vote is "yes.":)

[Artanis]

Originally posted by azalea
I think he is trying to write a revised version of it. I know, I just wondered why he seems to put off TN and QN as sources.
Why Maedhros?

[Maedhros]

Originally posted by Artanis
I know, I just wondered why he seems to put off TN and QN as sources.
Why Maedhros?
I'm not sure what do you mean by this?

[Artanis]

You asked
Is the material in The Hobbit sufficient enough to reintroduce the hoard of Nargothrond in a Revised Ruin of Doriath?I just wondered why you're asking whether The Hobbit is sufficient, since the Tale of the Nauglafring and the Quenta Noldorinwa also exist as sources.

[Fat middle]

I think Maedhros with "sufficient" is referring to the inconsistences that exists between The Hobbit and the rest of the canonical (:p ) books.

I would respond yes and no. :p There's no problem with a little inconsistence in TH as this, because it was wrote by Bilbo Baggins, who had heard the story (different accounts) from a group of wood elves and some dwarves, and probaby had transformed it to make it more impressive for his (doubtous) hobbit audience.