If Jackson made "The Silmarillion the Movie"

[jerseydevil]

This is just to post your ideas on what jackson woudl change and how he would make The Silmarillion into an action movie.

I saw this in the Sil Forum posted by BB concerning Jackson making a Silmarillion movie -


It won't happen in Christopher Tolkien's lifetime but once the old coot finally kicks the bucket and one of his more enlightened kin takes over the family business, I could see the estate selling the film rights to the Silmarillion for mega-bucks.

With the multibillion dollar film successes of the LOTR, anybody with half a brain knows that the Silmarillion is a hot property. After the Hobbit is finally filmed in a few years, the heat will be on to move to the Silmarillion. If handled properly, it could become a huge Star Wars-like film franchise.

The secret to success is that these have to be Peter Jackson films. Frankly, no one else could do the material justice.


Now after I cleaned up the throw up again - I started thinking - what would a Silmarillion movie be like if Jackson did it. We know how he had Faramir drag Frodo to Osgiliath, created Arwen into Xena-Elf, had Theoden's huge exorcism scene. So what woudol he do?

For instance this is something quick I came up with while I was talking with someone. ... Luthien is carried off by a dragon and Beren fights to save her. He single handedly kills the beast and wins Luthien's hand in marriage.

I have to admit - I had a lot of mockery stuff that I decided to take out. Like "it shows the love between Luthien and Beren beautifully". "Jackson did an awesome job and showed their love in the only way possible in the allotted time" Okay - so I decided to add the mockery back in. :D

How would Jackon portray the creation of the world? etc. What outrageous things would he come up with to spice up the movie and make it more action oriented.

[Sheeana]

If it's all the same with you, I'd rather not think about it. Hows about I put my LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA cap on? :rolleyes: :p

Tho' I will say this: I can't see him doing the Music of the Ainur, can you? Gods, he make 'em all giants with tin-foil bits hanging off them, or something. :eek:

Argh, can you imagine the fight between Tulkas, and Morgoth?? I bet it would be like when Saruman and Gandalf fought it out... :mad:

Nononono, I can't think about this! Must stop! Aaaaaarrrrrgh! *runs from thread*

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Nononono, I can't think about this! Must stop! Aaaaaarrrrrgh! *runs from thread*
Come Sheeana *arm around her shoulder- leading her back to thread* it can't be that bad. :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Oh yes it can precious.

[Valandil]

SGH - mybe Elfhelm was on to something...

How 'bout we divide the LOTR movie section into the "Bashing Jackson Forum" and the "Non-bashing Jackson Forum"??:D

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
SGH - mybe Elfhelm was on to something...

How 'bout we divide the LOTR movie section into the "Bashing Jackson Forum" and the "Non-bashing Jackson Forum"??:D
Why can't the people who don't like Lord fo the Rings the movies - or don't love them as much as others - bash Jackson or state their opinion? If you only talked to people who agreed with you it would be a very boring discussion.

This can be a very interesting thread - people can relate the scenes as they were in the book or make changes like Jackson made in LotR. I'm just asking how Jackson would do the movie. BB seems to think that Jackson is the only one who can produce them. I want people's ideas on what they think Jackson would do.

[Selwythe]

There is absolutely no way the Silmarillion can fit into a movie. It'd have to be made into a TV series.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Selwythe
There is absolutely no way the Silmarillion can fit into a movie. It'd have to be made into a TV series.
I'm sure with Jackson it'll star Pamela Anderson as Luthien. :D

[hawaiidevil]

PJ is a jerk and should be shot for his anhilation of LOTR.

If he does do Sil, it will most definitely be a "pimped out" version. immunity, reward challanges, and "the tribe that spoke (n)"

[Artanis]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I'm sure with Jackson it'll star Pamela Anderson as Luthien. :D :eek: *shudder*

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Artanis
:eek: *shudder*
Well can't you picture it? Beren secretly watching Luthien as she dances. The camera goes to slow motion. you see her hair and breasts bouncing up and down. Just like the intro to Bay Watch without the beach. :p :D

[Artanis]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well can't you picture it?I can. You're quite cruel. :rolleyes:

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well can't you picture it?

Ye gods, curse my image-rich imagination. Mind bleech, please! Artanis is right, you are quite cruel.

Then I'd rather see Angelina Jolie as was proposed in the Silmarillion-forum. At least she had the right hair-colour....

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Ye gods, curse my image-rich imagination. Mind bleech, please! Artanis is right, you are quite cruel.

Then I'd rather see Angelina Jolie as was proposed in the Silmarillion-forum. At least she had the right hair-colour....
Well does it really matter on the hair color? I think Jackson would go with the chiched - "men prefer blondes" to capture the male audiences. :) I also think he would go more for the Bay Watch look for Luthien and the overal scene. :D

[Millane]

ok im jumping ship at the thought of anyone doing the silmarillion, nevermind PJ, i think that no one could pull of a good movie out of the sil. I dont get the Pamela Anderson joke, i think that the casting for LotR was great :confused: now i think it would be more likely for PJ to cast himself in a lead role (just like Bad Taste:D ) although he is cool id hope to god he doesnt meddle in the Sil...
Argh, can you imagine the fight between Tulkas, and Morgoth?? I bet it would be like when Saruman and Gandalf fought it out... Tulkas could only be portrayed wrestling Morgoth with BRUTE STRENGTH! im getting angry now, i love that seen and i love Tulkas:(
"Say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot Morgoth he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest. Such hurt at the least will i do to the Foe of the Valar that even the mighty in the Ring of Doom shall wonder to hear it. Yea, in the end they shall follow me. Farewell!"
no living actor could deliver that speach and it is such a classic part in the Silmarillion that i would be heart broken if it was omitted...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Millane
ok im jumping ship at the thought of anyone doing the silmarillion, nevermind PJ, i think that no one could pull of a good movie out of the sil. I dont get the Pamela Anderson joke, i think that the casting for LotR was great :confused: \
Most of the casting was good, however Haldir sucked, Merry and Pippin sucked, Arwen sucked, Galadriel sucked, Elrond sucked. (in my opinion). Why was Liv Tyler in the movie - did her father donate a bunch of money to the film? I just don't think she's very pretty - let alone beautiful enough to play Arwen who was supposed to resemble Luthien.

[Millane]

ummm Haldir i initially didnt like him now i do, Merry, Pippin and Arwen were good choices and i had my doubts about Elrond, not very elvish but he's grown on me... Cate Blanchett was perfect...
i do think Liv Tyler was as close as they were gunna get for Arwen...
either way i dont think many of the characters of the Silmarillion could be portrayed in film so it doesnt really matter

[Elvengirl]

I liked most on the cast for LOTR

Anywho, about the Silmarillion: *steams* NO WAY PJ can make that into a movie! I'd like to see him try...... actually no, I don't want to see him try. I don't even want to think about how........and I'm not even going to coment on what BB said, because *steams* I might say something I'll regret *walks quietly from room*

[azalea]

Because this is about The Silmarillion, and not about the LotR movies, it really belongs in the Silm forum. I'm going to move it there, but SGH, if you think it doesn't belong there either, go ahead and move it back if you want to.

[Sween]

I think anyone that made the Sil would need 9 movies at least to do it.

Now as for what they would change to that i dont really know i would imgin the battles would be a big Focal point (hell we would all love to see some of these battles)

However the Sil is not a realistic movie franchise IMHO simply because its just not like LOTR. The major players are themselves increadbly powerfull being of much might and strength which to be honest just dont make for as good a movies as a poor little hobbit taking on the world

[azalea]

Moving back -- the Golden Haired one has spoken.;)

[Elfhelm]

Hmm... dragons, werewolves, and vampires, eh? I don't think Jackson would be interested. Sounds too banal for him. Maybe Sam Raimi would be interested.

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Why can't the people who don't like Lord fo the Rings the movies - or don't love them as much as others - bash Jackson or state their opinion? If you only talked to people who agreed with you it would be a very boring discussion.

This can be a very interesting thread - people can relate the scenes as they were in the book or make changes like Jackson made in LotR. I'm just asking how Jackson would do the movie. BB seems to think that Jackson is the only one who can produce them. I want people's ideas on what they think Jackson would do.

Maybe people who hate the trilogy should go to the books forum and respond to every post with images of vomit and suggestions about murdering the publisher. Maybe they should start threads like "If Tolkien had written Shakespeare" and guffaw at the image of Caliban speaking like Gollum.

OR ... maybe SOME people can say ONE positive thing EVER in SOME post someday instead of scanning over the messageboards looking for other people's opinions to freak out about.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by azalea
Moving back -- the Golden Haired one has spoken.;) Thanks azalea:)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Maybe people who hate the trilogy should go to the books forum and respond to every post with images of vomit and suggestions about murdering the publisher. Maybe they should start threads like "If Tolkien had written Shakespeare" and guffaw at the image of Caliban speaking like Gollum.

If they do that - then why are they even on a TOLKIEN messageboard? There have been disagreements with things Tolkien did or said - but it's HIS work. Jackson COPIED TOLKIEN'S work.

OR ... maybe SOME people can say ONE positive thing EVER in SOME post someday instead of scanning over the messageboards looking for other people's opinions to freak out about.
If you're talking to me - I have said things postive about the movies also - I don't scan the messages and decide to just find something to "freak out about". Although it does seem like you have this problem - or a problem. I have been here since December 2001 - and if you go back to my posts concerning the movies - you will see everythign I have said and how I have felt. If people don't like it - they can ignore it - but I'm not going to stop replying to what other people say or stating how I feel.

[cassiopeia]

Personally I don't think it's possible to make a (good) Silmarillion movie, but if PJ does it, it would have:

*Feanor would fall down all the time, and perhaps have a perpetual constipated look on his face.

*Galadriel would rescue Maedhros.

*Thingol would die by falling on a spiked wheel.

*Mim would be tossed by Turin and die.

:D

[Rían]

Good ideas, Cass! Except I think Feanor should do the eyes-rolling-up-in-head thing that Elijah does... :D

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Thanks azalea:) Thanks? Please explain this one to us peon posters, Sister Golden Hair. How in the world can you rationalize putting this thread back in the Lord of the Rings movie forum. The thread is about the Silmarillion. There is a forum for discussion of the Silmarillion. This forum is for Lord of the Rings movie discussion. The last time I checked, the Silmarillion wasn't part of the Lord the Rings.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Thanks? Please explain this one to us peon posters, Sister Golden Hair. How in the world can you rationalize putting this thread back in the Lord of the Rings movie forum. The thread is about the Silmarillion. There is a forum for discussion of the Silmarillion. This forum is for Lord of the Rings movie discussion. The last time I checked, the Silmarillion wasn't part of the Lord the Rings. Thank you so much for your administrative advice, but it is my opinion that this thread is a Peter Jackson thread more than a book thread. We are discussing what if Peter Jackson made a Silmarillion movie. Also FYI, there is already a thread in the Silmarillion forum about the Silmarillion films, started by you. Not quite the same as this one.The subject of Peter Jackson does not belong in the book forums, least of all, in the Silmarillion form. :rolleyes:

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I'm sure with Jackson it'll star Pamela Anderson as Luthien. :D She won't be around, she has Hepatitus C.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Thank you so much for your administrative adviceYou're most welcome, SGH.

The feelings of gratitude are overwhelming me. I feel just like an archer elf who's just marched into Helm's Deep. :)

[mithrand1r]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
She won't be around, she has Hepatitus C.
Is that fatal (in the sense that she will die in under 1-2 years)?
==============================================
In some respects, I think I would have an easier time watching a film about the Silmarillion by Jackson since I have only read parts of the book and do not remember much to any great deal of detail. I may still have problems with the film, but it will not be due to my familiarity with the story.

Part of my problems with PJ&co. treatment of LOTR is due to my familiarity with LOTR.
Part is due to unecessary parts in the film, IMHO
(ie
Ents quickly changing their mind about attacking Isengard, after stating in the Film about 1-3 minutes earlier that Ents are "not hasty" (or words to that effect),
Shield suffing down the stairs,
Dwarf jokes (I thought they were amusing, but not appropriate for the film),
Olympic torch Orc (funny yes. appropriate for film no)
Burping in the film and sloppy eating habits. (might this occur in a "real world ME" yes. Appropriate to include in the film. no.)
)
to name some examples that I can think of at the momment.

Again this is MHO.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
You're most welcome, SGH.

The feelings of gratitude are overwhelming me. I feel just like an archer elf who's just marched into Helm's Deep. :) That's nice, considering that the only Elf that was at Helms Deep in the books was Legolas, which is percisely why a movie of the Silmarillion shouldn't be done, by anyone, not just Jackson.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
You're most welcome, SGH.

The feelings of gratitude are overwhelming me. I feel just like an archer elf who's just marched into Helm's Deep. :)
Well you should - because there were no elves in Helms Deep.

Cross post with SGH. :D

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The thread is about the Silmarillion. There is a forum for discussion of the Silmarillion. This forum is for Lord of the Rings movie discussion. The last time I checked, the Silmarillion wasn't part of the Lord the Rings.

No. This thread is about Peter Jackson. Thank you, admins.

I tried to make an opera libretto from various sources concerning Beren and Luthien, but I gave up. It was just too much action for such a small space.

And that's the problem in a nutshell. Each chapter of the Simarillion could be a novel in itself. Drama is such a different medium that you can't even approach the story the same way. And cinema is so visual compared to other forms of drama that it is like four generations away from the source.

I'd like to see Jackson's detractors here attempt a screenplay conversion of even a short story. It's so easy to be an armchair quarterback.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
I'd like to see Jackson's detractors here attempt a screenplay conversion of even a short story. It's so easy to be an armchair quarterback.
I had studied a lot of film making in high school. I have friends whot WRITE screenplays. The changes jackson made made the Lord of the Rings into an ACTION movie. No one is saying that NO changes had to take place - we just have problems with a lot of the changes Jackson DID make and had nothing to do with the conversion from book to movie.

And yes - I agree the only way to do the Silmarillion would be to take gorups of chapters and flesh them out.

[Celebréiel]

Originally posted by mithrand1r
Is that fatal (in the sense that she will die in under 1-2 years)?


I think I read in an article somewhere that she said she has 10 years left or something *shrugs* im not too sure on all that.

As far as a Silmarillion movie goes I agree with what SGH said, a movie of it just shouldnt be made by anyone. I can understand wanting to bring a beloved classic to the screen and introduce those that didnt know about it to the LOTR trilogy, but leave it at that. People should now be encouraged to find out more about that whole world if they liked it. I will say I know alot of people that read lotr after seeing the movie and then wanted to read all the other books too....yah....
:) IMHO

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The feelings of gratitude are overwhelming me. I feel just like an archer elf who's just marched into Helm's Deep. :)

That's too bad, since they all died. :)

Oh wait, that was the point, wasn't it? Don't mind me...:rolleyes:

[hawaiidevil]

Originally posted by mithrand1r
Is that fatal (in the sense that she will die in under 1-2 years)?

It's possible (do no know if this claim is true, but...). depending on how bad her case is.

Hep C is alot like AIDS just slower, and it specifically attacks the liver. It comes from blood-to-blood contact, nothing sexual related (which can be the case with AIDS).

It can be treated with Chemotherapy, but the disease itself is terminal.

[Black Breathalizer]

Since anything related to Peter Jackson -- even when it has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings movies -- has been deemed okay to post in this forum, does this mean a Peter Jackson thread on King Kong would be okay to post here too? What about the cast? Can threads about their future film projects be included there too since this appears to have become the "anything movie-related goes here" forum?

Just wondering.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Since anything related to Peter Jackson -- even when it has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings movies -- has been deemed okay to post in this forum, does this mean a Peter Jackson thread on King Kong would be okay to post here too? What about the cast? Can threads about their future film projects be included there too since this appears to have become the "anything movie-related goes here" forum?

Just wondering. Actually, in case you haven't noticed, this is a board devoted to the works of JRR Tolkien.The Silmarillion is one of his works. I also know that there is an existing thread that discusses "King Kong" and there is a wager involved, so, what's your point?

[hawaiidevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Since anything related to Peter Jackson -- even when it has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings movies -- has been deemed okay to post in this forum, does this mean a Peter Jackson thread on King Kong would be okay to post here too? What about the cast? Can threads about their future film projects be included there too since this appears to have become the "anything movie-related goes here" forum?

Just wondering.

I'm REALLY surprised you aren't a Smelly Orc. You have attitude :D

[Elf Girl]

Can you quit debating? The admins have spoken. If BB is ever an admin, he can question the other admins' decisions. As of now, he will have to be content with the board rules as they are.

[Cassius]

I can't see it being made into a movie, but I can see a Japanese style cartoon being made out of it. Yeah, probably a good one made by the same guy who did Cowboy Bebop or the Animatrix guys. They could probably do it some justice. Live action just isn't possible, no one would live long enough to finish it.

Oh and by the way, Peter Jackson has better casting skills than you do. I am quite sure you put Pamala Anderson on there for a reason.:D

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Cassius
Oh and by the way, Peter Jackson has better casting skills than you do. I am quite sure you put Pamala Anderson on there for a reason.:D
I put it there as a way of making fun of jackson. I didn't say that I would cast her - I said he would. I still can not see how he made most of his casting decisions - such as Liv Tyler. The only reason I can think she got the part is because her father must have donated some money.

As for Pamela Anderson - I think it doesn't matter who he cast - the point I was making was that Jackson would some how use his overdone slow motion and turn the Luthien and Beren scene into a look-a-like of the intro to Bay Watch.

[Elvengirl]

Originally posted by jerseydevil

As for Pamela Anderson - I think it doesn't matter who he cast - the point I was making was that Jackson would some how use his overdone slow motion and turn the Luthien and Beren scene into a look-a-like of the intro to Bay Watch.

Oh, the horror :eek: I don't want to think about it. :(

[Elf Girl]

O dear. I don't think I'm going to picture that. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Cassius]

I think that someone should come up with a cast,*coughjerseymancough* Then we all can criticize it. ;)

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Cassius
I think that someone should come up with a cast,*coughjerseymancough* Then we all can criticize it. ;)

Hey we all have one thing in common, we love lotr's, so lets just all respect each other. But if I saw a sil movie I would really like to see Liv Tyler in it, j/k:D It would really be good, if they did a closer to the book version this time.

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I have friends whot WRITE screenplays.

I have friends who write, too. Doesn't make me an authority on anything. I repeat, I would like to see the PJ detractors prove that they are capable of writing a better script.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
I have friends who write, too. Doesn't make me an authority on anything. I repeat, I would like to see the PJ detractors prove that they are capable of writing a better script.
I don't have to prove to you - I know what i like and I know what movies are out there. I know that jackson didn't have to change the Flight to the Ford, I know that he didn't have to have the dwarf tossing jokes, I know that he didn't have to have merry farting after eating limbus, etc. As I said - I don't have to prove anything to you. I do NOT think the movies are well done - period. That is my opinion based on many films I have seen.

This is my DVD Collection (http://my.hsonline.net/~rrosetta/dvdlist.htm). This is what makes me an authority on what I like and what can be done in movies. Some movies I like less than others though of course. Some I hardly ever watch. Some I can watch over and over and over again.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
"I have friends who write, too. Doesn't make me an authority on anything. I repeat, I would like to see the PJ detractors prove that they are capable of writing a better script."
____________________________________________

While I understand your point, it seems a bit too strongly and generally worded. As it stands it bears a resemblance (I'm sure unintentional) to the standard professional athlete's response to criticism the gist of which frequently is:
"You never played the game, so you can't criticise what I do."

Surely it is possible to point out weaknesses of a movie, to suggest ways you think it could be improved, etc. without submitting a script. I don't believe Roger Ebert, for one, has ever written a script or directed a movie.

And bear in mind criticism can be both positive and negative. Therefore, to criticise PJ doesn't necessarily make you a detractor (although, granted, it could).

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Surely it is possible to point out weaknesses of a movie, to suggest ways you think it could be improved, etc. without submitting a script. I don't believe Roger Ebert, for one, has ever written a script or directed a movie. The real problem that I've witnessed here is that a Tolkien purists cry that Jackson should have done this or that as if he was totally insensitive to the books. The reality is that writing screenplays and editing films of this size and scope was a monumental task.

Tremendous thought was given to each and every scene (much more than any one of us have given here). The issues involved were never as black and white as "should we include this scene or not?" It was a giant jigsaw puzzle of conflicting interests in terms of plot, pacing, character development, and story. It's fine to criticize the films but most of PJ's critics here don't understand -- and don't want to understand -- filmmaking. Their view is that if it wasn't exactly like the books, it was wrong, period.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Their view is that if it wasn't exactly like the books, it was wrong, period.Well, I have never shared that view. I happen to enjoy the movies, but I do think that there are scenes that deviated way to far from the books, and as I said before, I was somewhat disappointed at the omittion of what I thought was some important characters. Considering the complexity of the books, I don't think that a film could be produced to the exact specifications, but these films could have stayed a little truer to the story IMO. But, I would rather not see a film made of the Silmarillion by anyone.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, I have never shared that view...but I do think that there are scenes that deviated way to far from the books. I wasn't necessarily referring to your views in my comments above. But I do think your quote illustrates my point because there was a very important rationale behind each and every one of the scenes that deviated from book to film. You may disagree with his choices, but Peter Jackson's ability to bring Tolkien's story to life depending on putting together an elaborate jigsaw puzzle. Move one piece and many others were affected.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The problem many seem to have with that jigsaw puzzle is, how pretty the picture is once it is together.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Tremendous thought was given to each and every scene (much more than any one of us have given here).
How do you know? Were you there in the editing room? Were you there when they were working on the screen play? :rollyeyes: Unless you were there with Jackson - you have no idea how much thought and care went into destroying Flight to the Ford and so forth.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
...there was a very important rationale behind each and every one of the scenes that deviated from book to film.
And again - you know this how? :rolleyes:

[Cassius]

At least we can all agree that there was deviation. I for one wanted to see Glorfindel, since he is my favorite elf in the books. Not to mention the Glorfindel in the Silmarillion. I don't think that the ford scene was a good change, I think that it was a good scene. PJ mentioned something about having female characters playing a larger role because Women Activist groups got after him, IF I heard it correctly. That certainly doesn't totally justify the change, it just shows how the world we live in won't allow things to be exactly the same as it was first written. Some group or another will call you racist or sexist and sue.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Cassius
At least we can all agree that there was deviation. I for one wanted to see Glorfindel, since he is my favorite elf in the books. Not to mention the Glorfindel in the Silmarillion. I don't think that the ford scene was a good change, I think that it was a good scene. PJ mentioned something about having female characters playing a larger role because Women Activist groups got after him, IF I heard it correctly. That certainly doesn't totally justify the change, it just shows how the world we live in won't allow things to be exactly the same as it was first written. Some group or another will call you racist or sexist and sue. How can PJ be held responsible for what Tolkien depicted?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Cassius
At least we can all agree that there was deviation. I for one wanted to see Glorfindel, since he is my favorite elf in the books. Not to mention the Glorfindel in the Silmarillion. I don't think that the ford scene was a good change, I think that it was a good scene. PJ mentioned something about having female characters playing a larger role because Women Activist groups got after him, IF I heard it correctly. That certainly doesn't totally justify the change, it just shows how the world we live in won't allow things to be exactly the same as it was first written. Some group or another will call you racist or sexist and sue.I agree about Glorfindel.
Arwen in the movies makes me angry, since she wasn't suppose to have that big part, and the big part doesn't seem to effect anything, and it's B-O-R-I-N-G. PJ pushed Glorfindel out for her, and entered her in a scene in TTT, and I don't want to kknow what he did to her in ROTK...

I think Eowyn is enough, and if Tolkien didn't write much about other females (except Shelob of course), you can't stuck characters in the movie. It ruins the movie.

[edit] - about the Sil movie - I would go to see it, only from curiousity though... Also, it'll be harder to make Sil. The book might be smaller, but with much more info and scenes. (which are shorter, obviously)

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
How do you know? Were you there in the editing room? Were you there when they were working on the screen play? :rollyeyes: Unless you were there with Jackson - you have no idea how much thought and care went into destroying Flight to the Ford and so forth. How do I know? It's something called: R E S E A R C H. Have you heard about it? The people involved in the film have talked about it. Their interviews have appeared in magazines, in newspapers, and on the web. There is also a wealth of information on the making of the films on the DVDs.

Let me predict your response: ALL of it is just hollywood propanganda, right? :)

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
How do I know? It's something called: R E S E A R C H. Have you heard about it? The people involved in the film have talked about it. Their interviews have appeared in magazines, in newspapers, and on the web. There is also a wealth of information on the making of the films on the DVDs.

Let me predict your response: ALL of it is just hollywood propanganda, right? :) Ahem, ahem...

I believe that even if they thought about every scene for days (months, if you wish), they made some mistakes, and the fact that they thought about it a lot don't make it up to me, at least. If I think they were wrong by adding/removing this and that scene, like in Glorfindel/Arwen, than I don't care how much time they thought about it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, in court it would be called "hearsay.":D

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I believe that even if they thought about every scene for days (months, if you wish), they made some mistakes, and the fact that they thought about it a lot don't make it up to me, at least. If I think they were wrong by adding/removing this and that scene, like in Glorfindel/Arwen, than I don't care how much time they thought about it. You can disagree with PJ. I was simply saying that his decision to replace Glorfindel with Arwen was a very complex decision that involved considerable thought. It wasn't simply a director saying, "let's put a good-lookin' babe in this scene."

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
How do I know? It's something called: R E S E A R C H. Have you heard about it? The people involved in the film have talked about it. Their interviews have appeared in magazines, in newspapers, and on the web. There is also a wealth of information on the making of the films on the DVDs.

Let me predict your response: ALL of it is just hollywood propanganda, right? :)
Yup - it is. My sister WORKED in a PR firm in hollywood. She went to the press party for the Mummy - she knows how hollywood works. And yes - do you really think they would say - "we just wanted to make it an action film"? Of course not - if they came out and told the truth - they wouldn't be able to convince the book fans that their way was the only way. As it stands - jackson does say in the FotR extended edition commentary that he just wanted to create a cool fantasy film and choose Lord of the Rings. There was nothing special in his choice - he said that it had a ready made audience. Sorry - but those are his words.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
You can disagree with PJ. I was simply saying that his decision to replace Glorfindel with Arwen was a very complex decision that involved considerable thought. It wasn't simply a director saying, "let's put a good-lookin' babe in this scene."
No - there was a reason and i agree with them switching Arwen or another character for Glorfindel - I however do not agree with the hack job Jackson made with the Flight to the Ford scene.

I agree 100% with Radagast. And what you are saying - you have no idea how much effort went into their decisions. Just because they say something - doesn't mean it's the truth. Actions speak louder than words and what is on the screen is NOTHING that Jackson mentioned. If you even listen to the commentary - he completely ignores the outrage against the Flight to the Ford scene but mentions how people were outraged about the flood. :rolleyes:

[jerseydevil]

Actually it was The Mummy II and it was more than just going to the press party - she was in charge of organizing it. She was in charge of the PR event.

[Cassius]

I still think that there will be a Anime made if anything. It certainly wouldn't be american animation style, cuz then it would suck.

[Keith K]

I think that it would be cool to have the material presented in a documentary format. Sort of like the History Channel. That way it could be a series that could delve into each chapter or issue more deeply than a 3 hr. movie ever could hope to do. (Of course this idea would never fly as there is no way it would make enough money). Just a thought/wish. :)

[Elvengirl]

Hmm... that might be a better approach, since the Sil tells the history of ME. I might be ok with that.:)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvengirl
Hmm... that might be a better approach, since the Sil tells the history of ME. I might be ok with that.:)
I agree - that would be cool. Sort of like "Walking with Dinosaurs" or "Walking with Man" or maybe like "Rome: Power and Glory"

[Keith K]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I agree - that would be cool. Sort of like "Walking with Dinosaurs" or "Walking with Man" or maybe like "Rome: Power and Glory"
Exactly.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Elvengirl
Hmm... that might be a better approach, since the Sil tells the history of ME. I might be ok with that.
_________________________________________________

Yes. It might be the only way to handle the various versions of Galadriel's saga.
_________________________________________________

And on a not so serious note:
'IN SEARCH OF GALADRIEL"
(Leonard Nemoy doing the narration?);)

[ethuiliel]

The Silmarillion was never meant to be a movie, there are too many sub-plots. It could be made into a series, or smaller parts of it taken out and used seperately. I don't know what I think about either one, but I know that Peter Jackson would definetly change some things if he made any movie, TV series, or anything else of the Silmarillion. It would be interesting to see, but I don't think it would necessarily be good.

[Wayfarer]

In order for the Silmarillion to be made into a film, it would first have to be a consistant narrative, which it isn't because the author died before it was finished and what was published wsa just sort of stuck together with string and glue.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I agree - that would be cool. Sort of like "Walking with Dinosaurs" or "Walking with Man" or maybe like "Rome: Power and Glory"

Now there's an interesting idea. I love the 'walking with....' format. It would make it easier to deal with the different stories.

[Thorin II]

The Silmarillion wouldn't be a movie; it would be a series of movies. The book is shorter than LOTR, but the story covers more ground. I would love to see it done, but I really doubt it will ever happen. The Hobbit is much more realistic.

[Sween]

I would like to see a director who is not so bounded by the theory of realism take on the silmarillion. I think the last two movies lost a lot of the realism as they delt with the worlds of men. I think the hardest aspect of bring the sil to life would be showing just how powerful the elves were and doing things at a much larger scale but still toliken was a genious who came up with so many things i would love to see put into film and i do think that it could be done but it would take about 9 movies to do it but i mean if i had the skills i would love to bring them to the whole world.

The Sil should be made but probably not by Jackson

[Thorin II]

I'm not sure PJ is really "bound" by realism; it was more of a choice for how he wanted the film to look. He wanted it to feel more like historical fiction. Frankly, I think it was one of the better decisions he made on the film.

If he did make the The Silmarillion (which I seriously doubt), I don't think he would necessarily try to do it the same way.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Thorin II
I'm not sure PJ is really "bound" by realism; it was more of a choice for how he wanted the film to look. He wanted it to feel more like historical fiction. Frankly, I think it was one of the better decisions he made on the film.
Tolkien already presented the book as historical - so whose history do you claim Jackson was trying to portray?

I agree with Sween - jackson was too human centric - one of the many problems with Lord of the Rings and something that would be completely disasterous for Silmarillion - especially since essentially it's the tale of the elves. Lord of the Rings was supposed to be the hobbits' tale and ended up the tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

[Thorin II]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Tolkien already presented the book as historical - so whose history do you claim Jackson was trying to portray?

I agree with Sween - jackson was too human centric - one of the many problems with Lord of the Rings and something that would be completely disasterous for Silmarillion - especially since essentially it's the tale of the elves. Lord of the Rings was supposed to be the hobbits' tale and ended up the tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

I didn't mean that PJ tried to make the movie more historical than JRRT's book. PJ's statement was meant to differentiate from other fantasy movies of the past (most of which have sucked). Movies like "Willow" made no attempt to seem realistic, which is part of the reason they failed. PJ wanted to avoid that, and I think he did.

As for the movies being to human-centric, I think it's a fair criticism of TTT. The other two movies were much more focused on the hobbits. In making the Silmarillion, I'm not sure PJ would know how to how how powerful and amazing the elves were. Then again, I don't know how anyone else would do it, either. Books have the advantage of imagination.

[Wayfarer]

Hey! Willow was a great movie. :D

I do think that the story is one meant to be portrayed as 'historical'. However, I dislike that jackson has interpreted 'historical' as 'dark, gloomy, gritty, dirty, and medieval' with a dash of the cheeziness found in traditional fantasy costumes and such.

[Gerbil]

If Jackson made "The Silmarillion the Movie" I´d kill him.

If anyone thinks PJ has the directorial skills to do anything other than make the Silmarillion into ´pretty scenery, shame about the plot-changes´, then they must have just watched a different Lord of the Rings trilogy to me.

[Durin1]

Originally posted by Gerbil
I´d kill him.

If anyone thinks PJ has the directorial skills to do anything other than make the Silmarillion into ´pretty scenery, shame about the plot-changes´, then they must have just watched a different Lord of the Rings trilogy to me.

Exactly! Totally agree.

At best PJ is nothing but an average director who, whilst being able to make a good film, could never make a great film. Many aspects of the LoTR films are classic examples: poor characterisations (Merry, Pippin, Denethor, Gimli, Elrond, Faramir et al; they are either stupid, childish or comic-relief), inappropriate humour ( intentional and unintentional (Gandalf hitting Denethor, for example), bad dialogue (at most times) etc etc.

... Not to mention weird plot changes. Would Sam have really left Frodo at Cirith Ungol? Would Aragorn really sit on his backside until Gondor sent out beacons of help at the last minute?( Denethor was becoming mad but he wasn't stupid). Why would anyone believe that a lord of the Elves would suddenly come into the Rohirrim camp in the middle of the night to finally deliver Anduril? The introduction of the Grey Company would have (IMO) been much more effective, since it would show that Aragorn wasn't the only Ranger from the North, and it would have further enhanced his nobility and heritage (the Dunedain are said to be held in awe by the Rohirrim, who look like children compared to them).

And so on and so forth.

I probably went on a bit:o but just wanted to highlight what I deem as flaws in PJ's directorial abilities. And this is with all the clear-cut information gained from the books!

Can people really think that a movie could adequately be made by PJ from the immense complexity of The Sil (much more so compared with LoTR): with so many interpolations, background history, short scenes, limited character development etc? confused:

The major problem is that The Sil would have too many aspects to it which would have to be left to "interpretation" (and we all know what PJ did with interpreting LoTR; where much of it was confusing weird and just plain stupid).

In short, The Sil should never be made, least of all by PJ.

[Gerbil]

I agree, I think PJ is an average director.
That the LotR Films are great is simply because with such an incredible source, even he couldn´t get it wrong all the time.
In other words, I count the good bits as PJ being lucky, while the bad bits show his true form - not good bits are PJ´s responsibility, and the bad bits are unlucky.

Mind you, having said that, there´s probably plenty of directors who could have done an equally adequate job.

So same is true of anyone doing the Sil, they´ll probably churn out an ok film because quite frankly it´d be hard not to. Having said that, any plot changes in the Sil would be idiotic, and stand out like a sore thumb much more than LotR changes ever did (and they were pretty darned glaring!).

The Hobbit, now, it´ll be interesting to see that one, mainly because it´ll actually be quite a good way of seeing PJ´s REAL abilities. The story is simple enough not to warrant drastic changes (assuming his ego doesn´t get in the way again), the characters are relatively comic to start with, and the film itself is much less about battles and stuff but simple individual set-pieces.
In other words, I´d fully expect him to do a crap job, and manage to insert some huge battle in the middle just to remind people he´s got the software to do it - after all, what´s an epic film with only 1 huge battle eh?

[Nurvingiel]

I don't think the Silmarillion would translate well into a movie at all. No director could do it justice.