The Silmarillion films??? [Archive]

Black Breathalizer

10-20-2003, 08:48 AM

It won't happen in Christopher Tolkien's lifetime but once the old coot finally kicks the bucket and one of his more enlightened kin takes over the family business, I could see the estate selling the film rights to the Silmarillion for mega-bucks.

With the multibillion dollar film successes of the LOTR, anybody with half a brain knows that the Silmarillion is a hot property. After the Hobbit is finally filmed in a few years, the heat will be on to move to the Silmarillion. If handled properly, it could become a huge Star Wars-like film franchise.

The secret to success is that these have to be Peter Jackson films. Frankly, no one else could do the material justice.

Tuor of Gondolin

10-20-2003, 09:40 AM

Yes, for all the considerable good the "old coot" has done, including preparing the Simarillion, unfinished Tales, and Letters, he does seem rather crotchety (I can't see JRRT cutting off communication with a relative who differed with him- which I believe Christopher did to a son or grandson who talked to PJ's people about the films). So eventually you'd think there will be Simarillion films. The question is in what form: a set of movies like the LOTR films, stand alone films, a mini-series format?
A problem could be a time sequence. Some stories are essentially independent of each other but basically occuring around the same time (Turin and Tuor).
And I think PJ could do a great brief introduction to such a series with the Ainulindale and Valaquenta (like intro to Fellowship of the Ring)- although, as a very minor point, I still don't think he "literally" got the battle sequence of Sauron's losing the ring correct, although his version obviously works well on the big screen.

It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil's son cut the ring from Sauron's hand and took it for his own."
My impression is a four-on-one battle, elf and man killed, while Sauron gets zapped by (Elrond and Isildur?).

Melko Belcha

10-20-2003, 11:02 AM

I don't see the rights for The Simarillion every being sold, and I hope they never are. Christopher owns the rights and he would not leave the rights to anybody he thought would sell them, hell he cut his grand-son out of all the rights because he favored the LotR films. CT will make sure the rights go to someone who would never sell them.

Sister Golden Hair

10-20-2003, 11:32 AM

Well, I for one hope there is never a movie made of the Silmarillion. They could never do it justice, not PJ, not anyone. And, if they ever did try to do a movie, I think they would probably pick a popular story, like "Of Beren And Luthien" and film it. I just don't see how it could be done any other way. The story is just to complicated, and there are far to many main charachters. Whatever though, I hope it's never done.

Falagar

10-20-2003, 11:35 AM

If I've understood the system right the rights will be out in some years anyway (wasn't it 50 years after the author's death?).

I believe it is possible to make a good movie/good movies out of the book, but I'm afraid it's likely that it'll only be made cheap hollywood-adaptions. And anyway they'll ruin much for the imagination.

Artanis

10-20-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, I for one hope there is never a movie made of the Silmarillion. They could never do it justice, not PJ, not anyone. And, if they ever did try to do a movie, I think they would probably pick a popular story, like "Of Beren And Luthien" and film it. I just don't see how it could be done any other way. The story is just to complicated, and there are far to many main charachters. Whatever though, I hope it's never done. I'm with you, in that I hope it will never be done. Movie-LotR is enough! But if someone should pick up the idea, they would probably shrink the timeline and cut out many of the characters. :rolleyes: And I don' even dare to think about the cast...

Ainaromenel

10-20-2003, 07:49 PM

They won't (or rather shouldn't) do a Simarillion movie. First of all the story is too vast. The actual Quenta Silmarillion is the history of the "first age", but remeber, that is many many ages put together. The time Melkor was banished in the chamber in Mandos was three ages! Just that small section. There is no way that there could be an acurate portrayal of the timeline. Plus the story line is the history of the elves, but it is SO many stories put together. To even do a horrible in justice to the book and cut out huge parts of the story, the movie would have to be 5 or 6 hours long. It would have to be like ten movies put together to come close. Plus I don't think it would be as popular a venue. Almost everyone who has read them or not has heard of Lord of the Rings and/or the Hobbit, but at least half the people who have read all four of those haven't heard of the Simarillion. I don't think Peter Jackson would do it, and I don't think anyone else could convince the industry to do it. I just don't see it happening, and I think some stuff would be best left to the imaginations of the reader anyhow.

Black Breathalizer

10-21-2003, 06:51 AM

I don't see it as one movie, I see it as a movie SERIES.

Tales of The Silmarillion I: Beren Ironfist and the Fortress of Doom. :)

Earniel

10-21-2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
It won't happen in Christopher Tolkien's lifetime but once the old coot finally kicks the bucket and one of his more enlightened kin takes over the family business, I could see the estate selling the film rights to the Silmarillion for mega-bucks.

Well that's rather disrespectful. I don't see how selling the rights to the Silmarillion for 'mega-buck' would make somebody more enlightened....

Personally I'm with SGH on this: In my opinion no one, Peter Jackson included therein, would be able to do the Silmarillion justice. It's not a linear story, it's more a web of different stories. Nor do I think the Silmarillion has the same appeal as LoTR to be put in a movie.

Also the changes in cast, storyline, ect....they would have to make, would IMO mar the tales. So I hope it never comes to a Silmarillion-movie.

Besides would they ever find somebody beautiful enough to play Lúthien Tinuviel? ;)

Attalus

10-21-2003, 09:54 AM

If I were doing a series of movies about the Sil, I would lead off with an adaptation of the tale of Beren and Luthien. Heck, I'd pay to see Angelina Jolie as Luthien. Can you imagine the scene where Luthien sings Morgoth and Cacharoth to sleep? Or Finrod's sacrifice? I can imagine tearing up at the death of Huan.

matthew

10-21-2003, 01:18 PM

I'm with Earniel. PJ could never appropriately film the Sil, never mind the LotR. There would have to be WAY too many movies and PJ could never get enough comic relief. I'm still raging over the two towers (and dreading the return of the king).
PJ na alta ar tiuca. (translation: PJ is huge and fat)

Earniel

10-21-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Attalus
Heck, I'd pay to see Angelina Jolie as Luthien. O.o

:eek:

*dies*

I'd pay NOT to see Angelina Jolie as Lúthien but I suppose that's a matter of opinion. ;)

In a way it IS tempting.... one way I wonder at how first-age Middle-Earth would be portrayed and somehow I'd love to see it. The LoTR-movies inspired my imagination to see so much more detailed and beautiful sceneries and events, a Silmarillion-movie might give me something like that too. However on the other hand, the movie-images may kill my imagining of the Silmarillion. I hate to lose that special atmosphere the Silmarillion has for me.

And the odds that anyone can thruthfully bring the grandeur and complexity of the Silmarillion to the screen are IMO far, far too small. No, if they thought that LoTR was already unfilmable, the Silmarillion will prove yet more unfilmable by far.

Shadowfax

10-21-2003, 10:14 PM

I totally agree with SGH and Eärniel! A movie of the Sil would wreck it and cheapen it. I could say more, but it's already been said by others.

NO Silmarillion-movie! Bad idea.:(

Tuor of Gondolin

10-21-2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
"I don't see it as one movie, I see it as a movie SERIES.
Tales of The Silmarillion I: Beren Ironfist and the Fortress of Doom."
__________________________________________________ __
Hmm:
"Tales of The Silmarillion II:
Nirnaeth Arnoediad: The Empire strikes Back!"

(Of course the Roman Numeral sequence is tentative)

Falagar

10-22-2003, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Attalus
If I were doing a series of movies about the Sil, I would lead off with an adaptation of the tale of Beren and Luthien. Heck, I'd pay to see Angelina Jolie as Luthien. Can you imagine the scene where Luthien sings Morgoth and Cacharoth to sleep?
I can:
*Jolie alias Lúthien rolls into Morgoth's room, drawing two crossbows*
-[insert dirty word], Morgoth! Your evil plans have been fooled once again!
*wildly fires around the room, wounding/killing everyone*
-[insert cool comment].
*jumps up on the throne, draws her big jungle-sable and cuts off the Silmaril*

Lollypopgurl

10-24-2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Falagar
I can:
*Jolie alias Lúthien rolls into Morgoth's room, drawing two crossbows*
-[insert dirty word], Morgoth! Your evil plans has been fooled once again!
*wildly fires around the room, wounding/killing everyone*
-[insert cool comment].
*jumps up on the throne, draws her big jungle-sable and cuts off the Silmaril*

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Scary, I can imagine that.

And I agree. NO Sil-film.

Maedhros

10-28-2003, 05:50 PM

I think that a Silmarillion movie, as stated by other members already, would not work. It is of course too vast a time period.
I personally would settle for a Revised Silmarillion, a more complete sil than the one that CT published, or a extended version of the Lays of Beleriand.

Valandil

10-30-2003, 03:59 PM

Even if someone ever did it... I wonder if the way to go would be total computer imaging... no actors, no actual sets... just a computer-generated world with computer generated models for characters. Then perhaps it could be done as a series of movies, released fairly close together... entire screenplays written from each chapter, fleshing out the stories and adding much more dialog...

Ironic thought, huh? The Ultimate Tolkien Story, done in with totally anti-Tolkien means.

Elvellon

12-21-2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
It won't happen in Christopher Tolkien's lifetime but once the old coot finally kicks the bucket and one of his more enlightened kin takes over the family business, I could see the estate selling the film rights to the Silmarillion for mega-bucks.

With the multibillion dollar film successes of the LOTR, anybody with half a brain knows that the Silmarillion is a hot property. After the Hobbit is finally filmed in a few years, the heat will be on to move to the Silmarillion. If handled properly, it could become a huge Star Wars-like film franchise.

The secret to success is that these have to be Peter Jackson films. Frankly, no one else could do the material justice.

First, a bit more respect would be appropriate.

And Christopher understands his father’s work better than anyone, and likely will choose wisely who will follow him. I doubt you will find much sympathy for the idea of making films of the Silmarillion now, specially made by Jackson, by whoever becomes in charge of the estate after him, and that is good.

brownjenkins

12-21-2003, 10:34 PM

i don't know if it would be impossible to do the silmarillion justice... just difficult, and not a job for pj

i see it more like william wyler's ben hur or kubrick's sparticus... it's 100% grand drama (little to no humor)... probably split into at least three movies with many parts being meshed together from HoME writings

each movie would probably have to center upon one or two stories to make it interesting in and of itself... maybe the first being creation till the flight of the noldor (melkor and feanor being the focus), the second focusing on the wars in beleriand intermeshed with the stories of the coming of men and maybe ending with the story of turin, then the third focusing on beren and luthien, the fall of gondolin, tuor's journey's and the war of wrath (i know this is a little out of line, but with the story of turin being such a tragedy and b&l being a little more hopeful it would fit better towards the end of the series)

the biggest problem is the amount of characters involved (especially the generations of men)... there would certainly have to be some cut characters and maybe even condensations of roles... but it is such a grand story that a truly talented director (of kubrick or polanski calibre) could pull it off respectfully

after all there have been good films done about biblical stories... and most people see that material as being pretty sacred ;)

Arien the Maia

12-21-2003, 11:18 PM

I think that if they do make a movie about the Sil, they should do the story "Of the Rings of 'Power and the Thrid Age" or "The Akallabeth". Those are fairly stragihtforward stories I think...although they aren't exactly the Quenta Silmarillion, they are included in the published work.

brownjenkins

12-21-2003, 11:55 PM

i agree... you could make two... the downfall of numenor would be a great story in and of itself, and maybe the fall of gil-galad to cover the rings forging to the last alliance (this one would need the most "creative license" since the details are rather sparse)

Raistlin

12-26-2003, 08:18 AM

i can't see the sil as a movie but more like a huge mini series like starting from the very begining of the book. when i read it i SO totally could see an opening(albeit a complete ripoff of disneys) of the songs intertwining and combining then falling apart but the question with this is who would compose the actual music for this

Tuor of Gondolin

12-26-2003, 01:23 PM

The Silmarillion could work as a sort of franchise, sem-independent stories, rather like the Star Trek or Planet of the Apes movies. in the same "universe" but largely autonomous stories. Some of the (partially overlapping story lines, but that's not necessarily bad in films) film stories, in no particular order, could be:

1---Feanor
2---Turin Turambar, Master of Doom
3---Gondolin
4---Beren and Luthien
5---The Akallabeth (ending with Elendil, Isildur, and Anarion landing on MIddle-earth
6---Thingol and Melian
7---Maeglin
8---Maedros [and you thought Boromir was a conflicted hero:(]
9---Earendil and the war of Wrath

10---(and, from Unfinished Tales, The Mariner's Wife
and
11---Cirion and Eorl, from the Third Age, would also make a great movie, and would have a ready audience ready from LOTR movies.

Raistlin

12-26-2003, 03:23 PM

yes like what they did with the "animatrix" how they did the whole pre-matrix thing but have the same format of animation.

Maedhros

12-26-2003, 04:17 PM

8---Maedros [and you thought Boromir was a conflicted hero]
Now that is a movie that I would definitely watch.:)

Lord Manafirogh

12-27-2003, 08:23 AM

I would love to see the film but it wont be as sucsusfull has LOTR because alot of the audience wont understand in unless they have read the books or are hard core LOTR fans. Turins story would be loved and uderstood by many(women proably lol no im not sexist) the beginging will be hard but once they get the stride into Feanors story and the wars of the silmaril it will get easier for the audience to understand. I will love to see it but i don think its gonna happen, they would change too much if they do it and that will ruin the book.

Orli17

02-05-2004, 12:23 PM

you know? i started reading the silmariliion adn got so confused with who's who in the Valar.....i'm planning on continuing tho and i think that if there is a film it'll be easier ot understand.....

Lord Boromir

02-06-2004, 04:07 AM

never ever make a film of Silmarillion!!!! It is impossible to make justice to the story, and it/they would only ruin it. never!

Tuor of Gondolin

02-06-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Orli17
you know? i started reading the silmariliion adn got so confused with who's who in the Valar.....i'm planning on continuing tho and i think that if there is a film it'll be easier ot understand.....
___________________________
You really should continue. I'm probably in the minority in generally liking the first part of The Silmarillion. It's laying a larger Nordic type background of a depicting of the "gods" (really angelic-type spirits), and the tale becomes increasingly Middle-earth centered as it progresses. Watch for perhaps the most moving, complicated, and tragic character (Maedhros). Edwin Mear's 1950s review to the contrary, JRRT did create some complicated characters. I find Maedhros more interesting and sympathetic then, say, Turin.

Nerdanel

02-06-2004, 04:42 PM

I love the first part of Silmarillion too. It's so beautifully written, and I love the music of the Valar!:)

Underhill

02-14-2004, 11:32 AM

I think that if PJ made a bunch of silmarillion movies, I would be all for it.

Sister Golden Hair

02-14-2004, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Underhill
I think that if PJ made a bunch of silmarillion movies, I would be all for it. That would be a nightmare come true. It is unlikely that the Sil will ever be made into a movie for the simple fact that the Tolkien estate hold the rights to it and I hope always will.

Tuor of Gondolin

02-14-2004, 07:47 PM

"It is unlikely that the Sil will ever be made into a movie for the simple fact that the Tolkien estate hold the rights to it and I hope always will."
____________________________
I thought that someone on the Entmoot speculated that those rights would run out fairly soon.

Sister Golden Hair

02-14-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
"It is unlikely that the Sil will ever be made into a movie for the simple fact that the Tolkien estate hold the rights to it and I hope always will."
____________________________
I thought that someone on the Entmoot speculated that those rights would run out fairly soon. Yes, but that doesn't mean that the estate couldn't repurchase them. I think the time period is 50 years. the Sil was published in 1977, so they still have quite a few years left.

Twista

04-03-2004, 08:33 AM

Everyone sells out in the end. Just you wait...

Fenir_LacDanan

04-05-2004, 09:00 AM

There would need to be a market, or no one would bother.

LOTR was the best to do because Tolkien devoted an entire epic to it, in detail. Sil is vast in scope, but as mentioned above, there are several stories that could claim their own movie. And as there is a great deal ommited, much would have to be "theorised" to make it a successful adaptation, and this would get every die hard fan in uproar.

And lets face it, they would be the core fan group the film would aim for.

kaleb500

05-22-2004, 07:50 AM

Oh my god not more films. After those hollywood abominations created by PJ I will never watch another tolkien film ever again!

BeardofPants

05-22-2004, 01:43 PM

*jumps onto Kaleb's leg* Never let me go ever again! Me loves you!!!! *holds on for dear life* ;)

Earniel

05-22-2004, 05:48 PM

Now, now, BoP, let go of the newbie. We want to keep him, you'll scare him away if you behave like that. ;)

BeardofPants

05-23-2004, 12:06 AM

*scowls* Does this mean I can't threaten him with castration if he doesn't read Dune? *pleading look*

;)

Earniel

05-23-2004, 06:28 AM

No.

But if you must, save that until he is properly hooked and addicted to the Entmoot. :p

Ossë

05-23-2004, 09:38 AM

I have actually read the dune books. Very masterful they are too. So today at least i can relax knowing my nads are safe and sound :)

p.s. made new account, didn't like kaleb500 as name

Cirdan

05-26-2004, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Ossë
I have actually read the dune books. Very masterful they are too. So today at least i can relax knowing my nads are safe and sound :)

p.s. made new account, didn't like kaleb500 as name

She still may come after your pants on occasion, so be alert!:)

Welcome to the 'Moot.:)

I think that while the movies were okay they took some of the mystery out of the experience of reading the book. The landscape was literally one of the characters in the book. The Sil could be a good set of films but it would be most interesting if each one was done by different directors, writers, and actors. The lack of detail would give a free hand to interpretation (yikes!) but that is preferable to butchering out "unfilmy" parts for the sake of action. I would if Quentin Tarrentino would do one? :evil:

Thorin II

06-03-2004, 05:43 PM

I don't think the Sil would work as a movie; the scope is too broad. If anything, it'd be 10 movies. The Hobbit will work, though. Rumor has it PJ will make it after King Kong.

Caranthir

06-24-2004, 10:23 AM

If The Silmarillion was made into a movie I would definetly go and watch it. Sadly though, I doubt it ever will. As has been stated (I think) it isn't a straight forward story, it jumps to different places suddenly. A lot of the Chapters are "of" chapters, too. By this I mean chapters that just talk about something that's different from what it was before. If it was possible to arrange it though and it kept true to the story and didn't have any unTolkien materials (aka changes) I would support it whole-heartedly. The actors and actresses would HAVE to be the best, though. I once saw a list of suggested cast members from someone (they know who they are) it wasn't bad. I forgot who was on it though.

Finrod Felagund

06-29-2004, 03:48 PM

Yeah, that would be me LOL! Welcome Caranthir, about time you posted!

mewhmag

10-05-2004, 04:03 AM

i have mixed feelings about Silmarillion movies...

one the one hand, it would be great to see an interpretation of the old legends, tales and myths come to the screen, but on the other, which to choose? the Silmarillion is already a compendium. a lot would have to be left out, too much to preserve the original magic of the books (also the earlier versions of the tales).

i could imagine to choose the tale of Beren and Lúthien, and the Narn i Hin Hurin. those would cover a wide range of events, but still not enough of course...

Last Child of Ungoliant

10-07-2004, 06:43 AM

no one should make the silmarillion, it is too vast a story to even attempt, and it would tarnish the stories for so many of us who have read, and visualized them.

Lenya

10-15-2004, 02:42 PM

I am 100% against a Silmarillion movie. It is impossible to work all of the magic of a book into a movie - I prove my point with the LotR movie. There is no way that a Silmarillion movie can be made better than that one, and that one was not good enough to be called the LotR. No, the Silmarillion is simply to good to be spoiled by a stupid movie. :mad:

Manveru

11-22-2004, 07:17 PM

I think a movie of 'The Silmarillion' would never work because of the obvious reasons stated above. But someone could make a bunch of movies based on certain stories, starting with the most popular and the ones most mentioned in lotr. They could probably do Beren and Luithien, Turin Turambar, Of Maeglin, Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin, etc. Like 6 movies based around the majors stories, and then have a huge special extended edition boxed set that has all of them and links them all together with short prologue type thingys.

Elemmírë

11-22-2004, 07:50 PM

Something like a series of movies could work, theoretically, at least, but who would have the patience to do it, and do it correctly? I have to agree with Lenya and most of the other people who have posted.

I am 100% against a Silmarillion movie. It is impossible to work all of the magic of a book into a movie - I prove my point with the LotR movie. There is no way that a Silmarillion movie can be made better than that one, and that one was not good enough to be called the LotR. No, the Silmarillion is simply to good to be spoiled by a stupid movie. :mad:

I know how a lot of LotR purists felt about the movies, on many points I agree with them. Whether it would be made into one or a series of movies, the Silmarillion is probably still too large a project to do justice to. I know I would not want to watch it. :mad:

Ælfwine

12-01-2004, 09:05 AM

I don't see how anyone could make a movie of The Silmarillion.
First of all, consider the lack of dialogue. How could one make a movie of that book and stay true to it?
I understand that a number of the members that have posted here are of the opinion that PJ did a great job. Well, I totally disagree. PJ made so many adaptions, that the films are closing on disrespect for Tolkien's works

And can someone tell me how they would picture the Ainulindalë on the Silver Screen? Not to mention the soundtrack.

I hope that The Tolkien Estate manages to sit on the rights until after movies is as obsolete as the Teutonic Knight...

galadriel

12-07-2004, 12:54 AM

I don't see how anyone could make a movie of The Silmarillion.
And can someone tell me how they would picture the Ainulindalë on the Silver Screen? Not to mention the soundtrack.
Hehe... you could buy the soundtrack and listen to the creation of the universe any time you like!

I agree that a Silmarillion project would be impossible. You'd either have to select a single story (which would be really difficult, because of all the backstory), or make a maddeningly long BBC-esque televised production, which would have a limited budget and never be able to handle the amount of special effects, crazy costuming, and massive scenery necessary.

Embladyne

12-08-2004, 02:18 AM

I would be horribly dissapointed by any film of the Simarillion, and especially because no one could ever come close to the right kind of music. That music only exists in my imagination, and I really like it that way.
However, if there was a film, or films, made, I would have to satisfy my morbid curiosity by watching them, and tearing them to peices verbally.

Lenya

12-09-2004, 02:49 PM

That's probably what I will do also :(
Still, even if they decide (highly unlikely) to make a series of movies, I do not think it will come close to the splendour of the book. A good example of this is the music, but also Luthien. No actress will match up to her.

Telcontar_Dunedain

12-09-2004, 03:20 PM

It would be impossible to make the films.
A series would be better but it would still never live up to expectations.

Finnrodde

12-09-2004, 03:33 PM

Lenya

12-09-2004, 03:36 PM

Fortunately Silmarillion is one of the treasures of Tolkien works that non-Tolkien fans don't seem to know about. That will make the chances a bit smaller that someone will do such a stupid thing as try to make a movie.

Lenya

12-09-2004, 03:38 PM

Elemmírë

12-09-2004, 04:13 PM

If they are going to make a movie from the Silmarillian, they can't do the entire thing, as it would be too long and confusing? It would be a fourty hour movie, and aside from Tolkien fanatics who would want to see that? My solution would be to take one section from the Silmarillian and put it to the screen. My pick???

On the Rings of Power and the Third Age

If you're not going to say something serious, don't say anything at all. :mad:

Sorry, everyone. His presence is entirely my fault ;) isn't it, little brother?

I don't think I'd mind seeing a forty hour movie, actually. :D I obviously wouldn't try to get through it at one sitting, but... Any other idea is even worse.

Of course, as I've said, I wouldn't want to see any dramatisation of the Silmarillion at all.

This is just speculation, right? Right!? :eek: ;)

Lenya

12-10-2004, 03:41 PM

Don't be so rough on him Elemmire, he is still a hobbit. ;)

ItalianLegolas

12-11-2004, 03:59 PM

Minielin

12-19-2004, 02:45 AM

A movie of the Silmarillion is never going to happen- there simply is too much within it.

A series of movies wouldn't happen because it would be catering to such a limited audience- the number of people who have read or are interested in reading the Silmarillion minus the number of people who abhor the idea.

A miniseries I could possibly see happening if the rights became available. IF. Even then, they'd most likely only touch on the major/dramatic segments, as in Tuor's list.

Personally I don't see it happening.

Note- Angelina Jolie???

Elemmírë

12-19-2004, 02:52 AM

well, since the LoTR movies came out, i've been hoping that they will make Silmarilion movie(s) and the Hobbit, and if they do make them they should bring back Cate Blanchett and Hugo Weaving to play Elrond and Galadriel

Respectively? :D j/k

I have nothing against Hugo Weaving, but... he's not my idea of Elrond.

Not to mention... I doubt Elrond's that old during the Silmarillion time frame... ;)

Once again... I ABHOR THE VERY IDEA OF A SILMARILLION MOVIE... and yet, at the same time... are somewhat amused and/or fascinated by it...

Masochistic, ne? :p

Wayfarer

12-19-2004, 03:45 AM

Minielin

12-19-2004, 03:48 AM

It would be impossible to make a good silmarillion movie - after all, the silmarillion [i]book[/]i is just an incomplete mishmash cobbled together from the assorted notes Tolkien left behind at his death. You're not going to get anything really film-worthy out of that.

Ditto. There just isn't enough of a branching plot- even the idea of Feanor & Sons vs. Morgoth is so incredibly complicated, involved, and drawn out that although an excellent and absorbing read it wouldn't be filmworthy.

Minielin

12-19-2004, 03:50 AM

Once again... I ABHOR THE VERY IDEA OF A SILMARILLION MOVIE... and yet, at the same time... are somewhat amused and/or fascinated by it...

Masochistic, ne? :p

Heh. Curious.

Wayfarer

12-19-2004, 03:52 AM

Right. ;)

And then you've got to consider the changes that Tolkien himself made to the Silmarillion. Which version are you going to film, A, B, C, or D which was just made up on the spot by the director? How does Amras die? What happens to Doriath? And so on and so forth. Making a Silmarillion film would be an incredibly bad move because it would be just asking people like Peter Jackson, who have already shown a willingness to make silly changes, to take the incomplete story and attempt to 'improve' upon it. Bad idea.

Minielin

12-19-2004, 03:54 AM

And fitting Maeglin (one of my favorite stories in the Silmarillion etc., if not my absolute favorite) in would be extremely difficult- though the story in itself would make a good movie. But no, come to think of it, even then it wouldn't because you'd have to go into the background of the rest of it for the end to make sense.

Note: Haldir lives!

Elemmírë

12-19-2004, 04:05 AM

And then you've got to consider the changes that Tolkien himself made to the Silmarillion. Which version are you going to film, A, B, C, or D which was just made up on the spot by the director? How does Amras die? What happens to Doriath? And so on and so forth. Making a Silmarillion film would be an incredibly bad move because it would be just asking people like Peter Jackson, who have already shown a willingness to make silly changes, to take the incomplete story and attempt to 'improve' upon it. Bad idea.

I shutter at the thought. :(

Since it's left so open, everyone has a completely different interpretation of the Silmarillion. The only one who would be happy with an adaptation is the filmmaker (who probably wouldn't know the story well enough to count)...

And the legions of vapid fangirls... :rolleyes:

Note: Haldir lives!

:)

I still don't understand the point of that... :mad:

Earniel

12-19-2004, 09:14 AM

A movie of the Silmarillion is never going to happen- there simply is too much within it.
A good Silmarillion movie may never happen, but seeing the story-mangling ability of some film makers, a Sil-movie may not so impossible. :eek:

All the same I won't be really looking forward to it.

firstagerules

12-23-2004, 09:15 PM

Durin1

12-24-2004, 06:03 AM

I think the only plausible films that they could make are:

1. Making of the Rings of Power.

2. The War of the Last Alliance

However, this would require too much self-creativity (by the producers and director) with plot and script, since Tolkien only provides few details of what happened. I think that in order for it to be half-decent these things would have to have a Tolkien "flavour".

And PLEASE let us hope that PJ doesn't do it. We know what the results are when he starts putting his own angle on events!!! ;)

Earniel

12-24-2004, 01:42 PM

Okay, from what I understand, Peter jackson has the rights to do The Hobbit at some point in time. Does this extend the The Silmarillion also. He did such a great jobn with LOTR I would like to see him do something with this also. No one big movie, but a bunch of smaller ones each showcasing Turin or Beren or a Noldor Prince. That would be cool!! :) :) :)
Oh, I'm quite sure that when his big monkey-movie is done, the Hobbit's is next on his to-do list. But I don't think the Silmarillion will be incorperated in that deal. In fact... I hope it's not. But I reckon he'll have a bit enough of Middle-earth anyway to tackle the Silmarillion right after that.

Manveru

12-24-2004, 05:15 PM

christopher tolkien still owns the rights for the silmarillion and from what i've seen of him i really dont think he'll sell the rights, even if someone put a gun to his head

Pytt

12-24-2004, 05:53 PM

I hope he don't will. someone would have ruined the whole thing, and that would be tragic.

Minielin

01-02-2005, 02:07 AM

A film-maker's judgement would definitely have to be called into question if he/she ever seriously considered making The Silm into a movie... it's that simple.

ItalianLegolas

01-03-2005, 04:05 PM

there should definitly be some Silmarillion films, because they establish the core ideas and mythology behind LoTR, you just can't have one without the other, in my opinion

Lenya

01-17-2005, 03:53 PM

NO way. And there were never supposed to be a LotR movie eather - not the way they made it.

Varda

02-02-2005, 03:09 AM

Durin1

02-02-2005, 05:32 AM

The Silmarillion contains some very esoteric kinds of history that upon my first impression 'read like the Bible' to put it delicately. Given the splicing and dicing of the basic trilogy and the public's subsequent lack of understanding (and subsequent reluctance to pick up the volumes themselves), is it even worth going through all the trouble to market and make available a book that most people wouldn't have read even if they knew what it was?

That's true. The Sil is just too complicated a book to adapt convincingly into movie format, let alone acknowledging the fact that few people have ever read the book and it probably would not interest the general cinema going public..

ItalianLegolas

02-02-2005, 03:45 PM

it could make a great mini-series though...

Nurvingiel

02-02-2005, 04:03 PM

brownjenkins

02-02-2005, 04:20 PM

i think it would take someone like kubrick was to bring it across well... you'd have to take complete artistic license to make it enjoyable in film format... but it's a great genesis for an epic movie... concentrate on the major events in the book, then bring each out as it's own individual story... it could be done tastefully

an epic film like "lawrence of arabia" is a good example... much is left out from the book, but the key moments are included well enough that the right general theme comes off well

the first movie could be the story of fëanor... the second, beren and luthien and the third a juxtaposition of turin and tuor

EarthBound

02-02-2005, 04:22 PM

Well, it would HAVE to be a mega-series, and yes, I'd see it. Wouldn't miss it. I mean, we've all said and heard that making LOTR was impossible...and some would say PJ has proved them right (couldn't resist). Yet, I've watched them a hundred times because other than the gratuitous 'tear running down the face' shot you see every other scene, it's fun to watch.

I say someone 'could' make the film, and it could be decent. The book 'should' and 'would' be better just like LOTR is. :p

ItalianLegolas

02-02-2005, 04:26 PM

someone better make it... we have a small army at our finger-tips!! :D

Twista

02-02-2005, 04:37 PM

And by "mini" maybe you mean "super long"? :D

I actually think, in the hands of the most skilled, artistic and uncolrruptable director ever (does not yet exist) the Sil could be woven into a good mini-series.

Mini series.... as on TV... not in my lifetime... television just makes it somewhat.. tacky? Dont you think?

ItalianLegolas

02-02-2005, 04:42 PM

I guess, but it doesm't have to be on TV. They made Left Behind a mini-series, and I never saw that on TV.

Twista

02-02-2005, 05:04 PM

Did you ever see it anywhere? :D Did it even make to a distant cable channel? lol. Making projects like this are very risky... it either wins or looses.

Elemmírë

02-02-2005, 06:27 PM

I think Twista's right... it's highly unlikely that something like the Silmarillion would be well adapted for TV... I can't help but remember how badly butchered LeGuin's Earthsea was...

I can't believe it would get the budget it would need either.

I'm curious to see if it could be done, though, either for TV or the theatres.

ItalianLegolas

02-02-2005, 06:45 PM

maybe someone could do it in flash... now that I would see. :D

Nurvingiel

02-02-2005, 06:49 PM

Mini series.... as on TV... not in my lifetime... television just makes it somewhat.. tacky? Dont you think?
Not if done right. But no director who could possibly do it justice exists, so it's a bit of a Moot point anyway. ;)

Embladyne

02-02-2005, 10:23 PM

I still would not like to see some director butcher the Silm, but something about the idea of seeing Tuor on screen....makes me almost want someone to attempt it.
Personally, I think the director would have to be Czech...or someone with experience in surrealist film...just my bias.
The stories are just so impossible to illustrate literally...that's why they are written down.

Willow Oran

03-05-2005, 08:01 PM

While I agree that the Silmarillion does not and would not adapt easily and probably shouldn't be attempted I think that the prospect of doing so is a challenge that sooner or later someone is going to be unable to resist. I also think that it would be possible, it would take a huge budget, extreme amounts of talent and patience and a ton of artistic liscense but I think it could be done.

First of all, whoever films the Silmarillion would need to use material from the HoME, it is possible to reconcile the different versions into a coherent story and the frame story format from the Books of Lost Tales could work well to pull the main stories in the Silmarillion together.

Secondly, there are more than enough talented writers who are also purists to write a screenplay for a movie of the Silmarillion and while it wouldn't be straight from Tolkien, it would be from people who enjoy honoring his work by elaborating on the information he left us.

And then, it doesn't have to be a film of the Silmarillion. I think a film based on the Silmarillion would be more acceptable to fans in that it wouldn't be claiming to be perfectly accurate but could still do a passable job of spreading the stories to those who can't bring themselve to read the book, and that's really what the purpose of such a film would be.

The music would be a bit tricky though. ;)

The Telcontarion

06-19-2006, 08:05 PM

I have always thought that if it was going to be made, it would have to be a mini series, either on HBO or ABC, NBC etc.

Only way tomake it accurate and detailed, noskipping things as with LOTR where there was mention of Bombadil etc.

I five year long mini series.

Curubethion

06-20-2006, 12:07 PM

I five year long mini series.
:D

That's the one problem with trying to adapt the Sil. It's almost as long as LOTR, but there's not a lot of description and small action. It's only big action. There's at least 10x as many events in the Sil as in LOTR and the Hobbit combined, because Tolkien doesn't go into a lot of detailed description, etc.

The Telcontarion

06-21-2006, 01:05 AM

:D

That's the one problem with trying to adapt the Sil. It's almost as long as LOTR, but there's not a lot of description and small action. It's only big action. There's at least 10x as many events in the Sil as in LOTR and the Hobbit combined, because Tolkien doesn't go into a lot of detailed description, etc.

Exactly, though that actually allows for the writers to take alot of liberties without changing the story at all. Thus making new and fresh even to us leave by the word of Tolkien, our lord!!!

hectorberlioz

09-25-2006, 06:18 PM

I say about two films....remember that a lot of it is narrative ;)

Gwaimir Windgem

09-25-2006, 09:51 PM

And by "mini" maybe you mean "super long"? :D

I actually think, in the hands of the most skilled, artistic and uncolrruptable director ever (does not yet exist) the Sil could be woven into a good mini-series.

I know; it's always funny to see a 12-hour miniseries. :p

Which brings me to my main question: Who here does NOT miss Black Breathalizer? *raises hand* The nerve to suggest such a thing!

Grey_Wolf

09-26-2006, 11:40 PM

For love of God dont let PJ do the honours - he's already ruined LOTR! :eek:

Gwaimir Windgem

09-27-2006, 12:02 AM

Exactly, Grey.

Just read the chapter on Friendship from Four Loves, and GW, you are a Friend. :D

Grey_Wolf

09-27-2006, 12:51 AM

Exactly, Grey.

Just read the chapter on Friendship from Four Loves, and GW, you are a Friend. :D

Thanks, Gwai. You're a Friend of mine too.:D

Valtir

10-04-2006, 08:54 PM

Personally, I'd looooove to see individual episodes of the Sil filmed. It would be so excellent -- imagine the battle between Morgoth and Fingolfin?

But, objectively, I don't see how it's likely. Too much, too obscure, too expensive. Too good, mayhaps.

A nicely done series of graphic novels (a la The Sandman) would be a fitting medium.

Mark of Cenla

11-01-2006, 02:41 PM

But, objectively, I don't see how it's likely. Too much, too obscure, too expensive. Too good, mayhaps.

That about sums it up for me too. Peace.

Rían

11-01-2006, 06:37 PM

Personally, I'd looooove to see individual episodes of the Sil filmed. It would be so excellent -- imagine the battle between Morgoth and Fingolfin?

*imagines it*

Ahhh, it could be SO good ...

*wafts anti-PJ spray*

Yes, I think the little series of vignettes idea would be cool.

Anglorfin

11-11-2006, 09:02 AM

Pretty sure it won't happen. Too much time and effort and only the really big Tolkien fans would even stir at the thought of a Sil production. To even market it they'd have to get known big names behind it like Peter Jackson because of his involvement with the LotR movies. Plus it would be cool to reuse some of the actors (Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, Gil-Galad, Elendil, Isildur). However the scale of the project would just be too much.

Plus I can't imagine how they'd cast something like that. Way too much money would be spent on casting. Think of how big it was for LotR and then basically times that by 10. And I'm kind of scared to think about what actors they'd give some major parts too. Like I don't want a Brad Pitt Feanor and a Leonardo DiCaprio Maedhros. Or a Colin Farrell Turin. I think we lucked out for the most part with the LotR casting calls let's not push it. Though if the casting budget is spread so thin it would be a good bet that we would see a lot of no-names as supporting roles, which would be a good thing.

On a related note isn't there a Silmarillion casting thread somewhere?

Earniel

11-21-2006, 03:26 PM

I thought to bump this thread with this BBC website article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6167972.stm).

According to this article there will be another prequel aside from The Hobbit. Will this prequel perhaps be a Silmarillion story? Must be. I just can't see anyone writing anything new to go before LoTR. Unless... Did Christopher perhaps sell the rights to film the new Narn i Hurin book before it's published?

Curubethion

11-21-2006, 03:54 PM

Narn I Har Hurin would be the only viable option I can think of...it'll be interesting, though, since that one contains a bit of R-Rated material there...

Arien the Maia

11-21-2006, 11:25 PM

Valandil

11-21-2006, 11:57 PM

:
:
According to this article there will be another prequel aside from The Hobbit. Will this prequel perhaps be a Silmarillion story? Must be...

Hmmm... the only thing that really makes sense is to tell the full backstory of Arnor / Eriador, don't you think?

;)

Earniel

11-22-2006, 08:05 AM

i think the 'Akallabeth' or 'Of the Rings of Power' would be a great prequel.
Yes, it would, but they'd have to do a lot of writing. The existing texts are abridged at best.

Hmmm... the only thing that really makes sense is to tell the full backstory of Arnor / Eriador, don't you think? ;)
LOL! They said 'a prequel', Val, not a whole truck-load of them. :p

Valandil

11-22-2006, 08:37 AM

*sigh*

... I suppose so.

Maybe an episode then. After all: Gandalf, the Witch-King, Aragorn's line and Hobbits are all linked together by it. ;)

BookMasterJMV

11-24-2006, 03:29 AM

As much as I would love to see Silmarillion movies... I cringe at the thought of how they'd create the Valar.

Whenever there's a mythology movie that comes out, they either totally keep the gods out of it or portray them with some sort of "heavenly" air about them.

Don't want to see that happen to good ol' Manwe and Varda... though, I could think of a couple of great actors for them.