Unwritten Book

[Valandil]

What "Unwritten Book" by Tolkien would you most like to read? For me, it would be "The Chronicles of Arnor" - and would tell ALL ABOUT Arnor, Arthedain (and sister nations) and the Northern Dunedain in the time of the chieftains. Each king and chieftain, their families, their struggles, the lifestyles, towns, the customs, etc., etc.

[Wayfarer]

Id like to read 'The New Shadow'.

Either that or 'An existential treatise on the nature and existance of Bombadil'.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Id like to read 'The New Shadow'.Yes, and 'Tal-Elmar'. Right now I'd also like to read more about Celebrimbor, Annatar and the destruction of Eregion.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

A history of the Beornings. They actually played a key role in the third age (even aside from Beorn) for travel and trade and fighting northern orcs, and were, I believe, related to the Edain (but didn't go into Beleriand?).

Oh, yes, and a story centered on, and giving more of a complete picture of, the figure I think is really a key tragic hero of the Silmarillion (and the person who you could argue really connects the whole tale), Maedhros.

[IronParrot]

I would actually have liked to see something leaning more towards his Hobbit style of playful adventure rather than his Silmarillion tendencies to spin myth and history. In other words, something focused on the Shire and the hobbits rather than the generally more "fantastic" elements of Middle-Earth. I think events surrounding Bandobras Took or the wolf invasion across the frozen Brandywine would have made a great story.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I would like to see more elaboration on the meeting of Aegnor and Andreth, and the Athrabeth.

[Artanis]

Oh yes, I would like to hear more about the fall of Men. (thanks SGH)

[elendili]

i'd like more tales of numenor and the founding of arnor and gondor and possibly of lothlorien and what happened after galadriel left

[Earniel]

Oh, there's so much, so much things which Tolkien merely passingly mentioned or hinted at, that could have been such great tales if there ever was enough time in a life to write them out. :)

Two things that spring into my mind right now that I would love to read more about are the fate of the Entwives and Cirdan, lord of the Havens.

[Sheeana]

I wish he'd written more about the Cottage of the Lost Play.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Either that or 'An existential treatise on the nature and existance of Bombadil'.


Drool.....:D

[Falagar]

"Books I'd like to see by Tolkien" by Falagar.

*"Aegnor, the leader, the deeds - and the elf"

*"Celeborn - a biography"

And of course:

*"Fëanor, behind the mask"

*"Celebrimbor's guide to Ring-making"

*"Photoalbum of Lúthien dancing in the wood" ;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

How about: "Growing Up In Valinor" From Finrod's POV:D

[Elf Girl]

I'd like to see something more about the 'spreading of lies' by Morgoth in Valinor. It seems like it would be very interesting- the few brave sould who see him for who he is and tries to stop him, etc.

[Keith K]

How about The Early Adventures of Aragorn?

[Valandil]

Yes - I'd like the "Early Adventures of Aragorn" too! I think I'd include it in my Chronicles of Arnor. First he'd travel west - throughout the old domains of Arnor. He'd make friends with Cirdan, who would teach him to sail (which comes in handy when he later storms Umbar as Thorongil - and then when he sails the ships up from Pelargir) and who also shows him the Palantir that looks back east toward the True West (and couldn't the palantirs traverse time? could he see ancient Numenor - and his ancestor's flight from there?). Just so many directions to go with all that!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Valandil "I'd like the "Early Adventures of Aragorn" too!"
________________________________________________

And how about early interactions with Elrond [his effective foster father], and more on his courtship of Arwen? Plus the way(s) in which he assumed leadership over the Rangers and helped in the establishment of a protective shield over the Shire?

[Finrod Felagund]

Yes, definitely "Cirdan: An Elf Lord's Story"
He's such an under appreciated character, after all he was there from before the Revolt of the Noldor, to the Last riding of the ring Keepers.

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Originally posted by Valandil "I'd like the "Early Adventures of Aragorn" too!"
And how about early interactions with Elrond [his effective foster father], and more on his courtship of Arwen? Plus the way(s) in which he assumed leadership over the Rangers and helped in the establishment of a protective shield over the Shire?

As well as his work for Thengel of Rohan and Denethor's father in Gondor under the name "Thorongil". Not many people remember that Denethor actually knew Aragorn, in a different identity, and that really, Aragorn is so very old.

[Beor]

I don't know if he has written one yet or not, as I havent read the HOME, but i'd say a book on what happened to the edain before they crossed the ered luin into beleriand

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Beor
I don't know if he has written one yet or not, as I havent read the HOME, but i'd say a book on what happened to the edain before they crossed the ered luin into beleriand Oh you definately should get a hold of Morgoth's Ring, volume 10, HoMe series. That is what Artanis and I were refering to in our earlier posts. There is a story called the "Tale of Adanel, in Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth. The Athrabeth is simply beautiful.

[Beor]

Thanks for the advice, Sister Golden Hair. I have been trying to get ahold of those books, and a few others. Its hard to get stuff in the middle of the desert though, so bear with me if you can;)

[Valandil]

Hmmm... Methinks we're giving JRRT quite a bit of extra work to do:D ... hope he won't mind:p :cool:

[Sister Golden Hair]

Its hard to get stuff in the middle of the desert though, so bear with me if you can Oh, I can imagine. Well, whenever you get them, you are in for a treat.:)

[Ainaromenel]

I think I'd like to know exactly who the other Istari are, where they went, and what they did. So maybe, Quenta Israri , or something like that.

[Wayfarer]

How about: The Complete and Unabridged History of Middle Earth, with footnotes and commentary from representitives of all races, and final judgments on all matters of debate handed down from the One himself.

[IronParrot]

Nah... that would take the fun out of it, no? :)

[Valandil]

Oh but, like the hobbits, we like books full of things we already know, set down straight and with no contradictions!:)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
"How about: The Complete and Unabridged History of Middle Earth, with footnotes and commentary from representitives of all races, and final judgments on all matters of debate handed down from the One himself."
__________________________________________________

But, on matters of Middle-earth, is "the One himself" Eru or JRRT?
(Ooops, that could be a matter of debate!)

[Dúnedain]

For me I'd love to read something about the "Time of Men" which spans the Fourth Age, starting with Eldarion (Aragorn & Arwen's son, and successive King of Men). I'd like to know of his life, his deeds, whether he was a great King of Men as his father was, because really Eldarion is probably the most important figure in the History of Men after Aragorn for the sole reason of his bloodline. He is more closely related to the Numenoreans through blood than Aragorn himself was. With that his name also means "Descendant of the Eldar".

Going from there I'd also like to know of the "Breaking of the World" as Tolkien describes it, which one can only assume means the end of Middle Earth and the Time of Men.

Now to preface all of that I too would love to read more of Aragorn's younger life, and even of his time as King, he did rule for 120 years with Arwen at his side. I'd really like to know more of his travels as Thorongil, especially when he goes into the East and South amongst the enemies...

[Attalus]

*Puts in paid preorder for The Early Adventures of Aragorn* Darn it, what happened in Moria that first time? Oh, and I would like a copy of Balrogs: Complete Biographies of Each, With Detailed Remarks on Their Anatomy; With a supplement on the Origins of Orcs and Dragons.

[Lizra]

I'd want another Hobbit-like story, set a little earlier, maybe get the old Took in there, some dwarves, some silly elves and of course, Gandalf leading the show again. Just why did Gandalf give the old Took those magic studs? :confused: Lots of "magic" and smoke rings for me. :)

[Valandil]

(it's been awhile, but...)

I wonder if those magic cufflinks could have come from Dale. Maybe all too close of a tie-in with the rest of the story, but it's the best place in known Middle Earth I can think of for them to be from.

[Valandil]

And I wonder what Gandalf and the other Istari DID their first 1000 - 1500 years in Middle Earth...

[Gulio, Strength of Many]

How about "The Complete and Detailed History of the Dwarves"? Sounds splendiferous to me! Books about the Istari would be cool too:) And something about the Rohirrim......... Grrrr! Too much I must know!

[cassiopeia]

What everyone else has said, and:

The Tale of Sam's Journey to the Undying Lands

The Early Life of Arwen

A Detailed Version of the Fall of Dol Guldur During the War of the Ring -- with additional information on the battles at Erebor and Mirkwood.

Where to Find a Dwarf Woman or Life at the Undying Lands with A Dwarf :D

[Dúnedain]

I'd also like to know more about Dol Amroth. What kind of kingdom was setup there as in buildings and stuff like that. It is pretty clear that the Princes of Dol Amroth have higher blood than those of the later Stewards. Then you have the whole legend that Dol Amroth's lineage has Elven blood in them, even Legolas notes the highness of Imrahil...

[Rían]

OMGoodness, all those book ideas! I wants them ALL, preciousss, I wants them ALL!!!!!

Also, A Complete History of Gondolin.

And of course, in addition to finishing the Lays of Beleriand, I would like the entire history of ME in the same style.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
OMGoodness, all those book ideas! I wants them ALL, preciousss, I wants them ALL!!!!!

Also, A Complete History of Gondolin.

And of course, in addition to finishing the Lays of Beleriand, I would like the entire history of ME in the same style.

I haven't yet read the Gondolin story in BoLT, but if it's not in there, I want to know the rest of Tuor's tale, such as him being at the Mouth of Sirion with the Elves and whatnot :D

[Tuor of Gondolin]

(relayed from an interested party to the thread)

Yesss, Precious. We should tell the real story of poor Smeagol, not the filthy lies the nassty fat hobbit and his friendses wrote.

Did you think the tricksey master of the Precious would really tell how everyone hates and hurtses you! His uncle stole the Precious from us, you fool! All the hobbitses visits fierce, cruel elves and listens to their lies.

But when we were (you know where) we wouldn't tell anything about the Precious or the hobbitses to (you know who).

Wait, we knows! We'll get Peter Jackson to show everyone the true story of poor Smeagol in a movie. If we writes it down he wouldn't dare change anything, would he, Precious?

[Attalus]

Oh, also, while you are at it, Ronald, a Complete History of the Dwarf Kingdoms.

[Rían]

I don't think I've seen these two yet :

Glorfindel : An Elf for Many Ages - complete with illustrations

Gildor : Who Was He?

[Nerdanel]

A book telling more about the Rangers would be soo interesting! Guess there's not so much use wishing, though.. :D

[Dark Lord Guy]

I would love to read about the 'Wanderings of Maglor' and the 'Final Fate of Elured and Elurin'.

[Rían]

OH, that reminds me - how about "The Adventures of Elladan and Elrohir after Dad Left Middle Earth"?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Dark Lord Guy
the 'Wanderings of Maglor' Oh dear. That story would be too sad. :(

[Valandil]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
OH, that reminds me - how about "The Adventures of Elladan and Elrohir after Dad Left Middle Earth"?

We're not specifically told, but didn't they probably sail west with him?

On the other hand, they lived long and adventured much while they WERE on Middle Earth - through most of the Third Age... and left very few recorded words (I'm trying to think... are those even speaking parts?). If only we could get them to open up about what they did / saw / knew...:)

[Falagar]

We're not specifically told, but didn't they probably sail west with him?
No, they lived some time in Rivendell with Celeborn.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Falagar
No, they lived some time in Rivendell with Celeborn.

Ach! That sounds right - why did I forget it? Shame on me... where's that frying pan you whacked yourself with? I could use a turn!

Now why didn't Elrond grieve about leaving his twin sons behind like he did about his daughter?? Was he playing favorites??:rolleyes: :eek: ;)

[Earniel]

Didn't the twins only postpone their choice for a while? If so, there would be still a good chance that eventually Elrond would see them again in Tol Eresseä or Valinor while Arwen was pretty much lost for good.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Artanis
Oh dear. That story would be too sad. :(
Yes ... but oh, to hear him sing ...

[matthew]

I want to see some about the very mysterious early third age, including the fall of arnor, fighting in gondor, travels of Galadriel, and all that.

[Wayfarer]

I'd also be interested in reading about the Avari. It seems like they've been abandoned by the Plot as well as the Valar as time goes on. :D

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Valandil
[Elladan and Elrohir] "lived long and adventured much while they WERE on Middle Earth - through most of the Third Age... and left very few recorded words (I'm trying to think... are those even speaking parts?). If only we could get them to open up about what they did / saw / knew..."
_________________________________

Including several, I believe, travels with Strider/Aragorn. Now they would be interesting journals to read or songs/poems to hear in the evenings at Rivendell.
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"Now why didn't Elrond grieve about leaving his twin sons behind like he did about his daughter?? Was he playing favorites??"
__________________________________

Because PJ had them join Glorfindel, the Prince of Dol Amroth, etc. etc. etc. on the cutting room floor (well, actually, the script writing floor).:(

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
"Now why didn't Elrond grieve about leaving his twin sons behind like he did about his daughter?? Was he playing favorites??"
__________________________________

Because PJ had them join Glorfindel, the Prince of Dol Amroth, etc. etc. etc. on the cutting room floor (well, actually, the script writing floor).:( [/B]

This has nothing to do with the movies...

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Valandil
(I'm trying to think... are those even speaking parts?).Yes, they are speaking parts. But they don't speak much, at least not so we can hear them. I would have liked to hear their story too, especially the incident when they rescued their mother from the Orc's torment.

[Finrod Felagund]

Merry's Book on Herblore.

[Thorin II]

Elrond: "My Daughter Married her Great-Great-Great-(etc.)-Nephew..." (with help from Jerry Springer):D

[Dark Lord Guy]

I would also like to see 'The Wars of Beleriand' from Morgoth's point of view, 'Frodo in the Undying Lands', and 'the Travels of ______(the Blue Wizards--I forget their names...)'

[Curufinwe]

The voyages of Earendil the Mariner. Funny thing about Earendil, after inspiring Tolkien to create his mythology he summarily drops off the map as far as the legendarium is concerned. His glory is mostly reflected from the third age.

[Attalus]

Well, he did slay Ancalagon the Black. From the air, riding in Vingilot. Otherwise he was forbidden to set foot on Middle-earth.:D

[Nurvingiel]

I'd like to read "The Lands East of Middle-earth" set when Men came to Middle-earth, and explaining what the circumstances were that led them to do this.

[Thorin II]

Lots and lots, but these above the others:

History of the Ents (and the Entwives)

History of Numenor (and the Fall)

[Thorin II]

Oh, and probably most of all:

Dwarves of the First and Second Age

As my ID suggests, I'm a big fan of Dwarves; I don't think they get enough attention. :)

[Nurvingiel]

That would be so interesting, I'd love to read that too. I was just reading about the Dwarves in the Appendecies, and I realized how much background there was to the Hobbit. Dwarves are so excellent, and they had such a tough time too.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Just a thought, but:
there could be interesting stories about the eastern houses of the dwarves. You could speculate that perhaps the Blue Wizards had some effect in keeping them from being overly influenced towards Sauron as the Easterlings generally were. Perhaps withoput such a hypothetical ameliorating effect they wouldn't have participated in the war of the dwarves and orcs over Kazad-dum. Micheal Martinez has some interesting essays on information/speculation about the dwarves :
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/28918
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/29244

including:
"Tolkien says little about the four eastern kindreds. He suggest they (or at least the two easternmost) may have become "evil" in some fashion, but they did not support Sauron at the end of the Second Age. Sauron's relations with the Dwarves are peculiar. Having failed to seduce the Elves with the Rings of Power he seized as many of the Elven Rings as he could during his war with the Elves and took them back to Mordor. There he perverted them in some fashion with the intention of using them to seize control over the great lords of other peoples. Sauron contrived to give seven Rings to the Dwarves, presumably one to each of the lords of the seven kindreds (although this is by no means certain)."

[Thorin II]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Micheal Martinez has some interesting essays on information/speculation about the dwarves :
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/28918
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/29244

Tuor - thanks for sharing these links; the articles are very interesting. It's really too bad Tolkien didn't live another hundred years or so to fill in all these blanks...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

About this thread's main theme:
"What "Unwritten Book" by Tolkien would you most like to read"
____________________________

I came across, in the introduction to "Unfinished Tales" to the section "The Quest of Erebor" a rather intriguing hint of other partially written or plotted tales, some suggested in posts above:
There are, of course, quite a lot of links between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings that are not clearly set out. They were mostly written or sketched out, but cut out to lighten the boat: such as Gandalf's exploratory journeys, his relations with Aragorn and Gondor; all the movements of Gollum, until he took refuge in Moria, and so on.
Unfinished Tales does give Gandalf's account of his preparations for the Quest of Erebor, but I wonder if any of the other events referred to by JRRT are at least fragmentarily intact, perhaps somewhere in the HoMe series, which I haven't gotten around to reading.

[Dúnedain]

Hey Tuor, use the "quote" button in the lower right hand corner of posts :D It's easier for you and easier for us to read :p

[Nerdanel]

I would like to read a book about the Eagles and Thorondor! I love birds..:)

[Valandil]

Well, I've never considered myself much of a writer, but *sigh* I'm starting to think I'll have no rest until I write my Chronicles of Arnor. It would go from late Second Age - at least through the end of the Third Age and maybe into the Fourth a bit. I'm thinking a collection of short stories, mostly dealing with the royal family line, along with some background information about the people, their customs, etc. Of course I'll stick faithfully to Tolkien's work... except that I have noted some discrepancies in PoME... so some of that information may have to be slightly amended.

Um... this may take me awhile... like 15 or 20 years or something. :D

Wish me luck... I'll try to post a short story in 'Writer's Workshop' now and again - as the years roll along. ;)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Don't forget the battle(s) for Amon Sul. And what do you think of Michael Martinez's theory that Aragorn's people had settlements in the angle? Their story in the Third Age would be quite interesting. And what was the size of the Rangers units, did they operate autonomously or with elves in Rivendell or Lorien like the British/Americans in W. W. II?
Did they have regular outposts in Minhriath? Etc. There certainly is scope for more stories. But keep in mind an observation by JRRT somewhere in "Letters" to the effect that if you explore some of the vistas which add depth to LOTR then new barely glimpsed/alluded to events should be added to give that feeling of depth and historicity.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Don't forget the battle(s) for Amon Sul. And what do you think of Michael Martinez's theory that Aragorn's people had settlements in the angle? Their story in the Third Age would be quite interesting. And what was the size of the Rangers units, did they operate autonomously or with elves in Rivendell or Lorien like the British/Americans in W. W. II?
Did they have regular outposts in Minhriath? Etc. There certainly is scope for more stories. But keep in mind an observation by JRRT somewhere in "Letters" to the effect that if you explore some of the vistas which add depth to LOTR then new barely glimpsed/alluded to events should be added to give that feeling of depth and historicity.

Yes, MUCH potential in geography, years, events and persons! I go along with several of M Martinez's articles - including the remnants of the northern Dunedain being in the Angle... though I might have smaller groups, maybe even just isolated households, scattered about through the former bounds of the greater kingdom. I also like his theories about how Arnor disintegrated into three kingdoms (and one of the storylines in my head is a major expansion on that one) as well as about early Numenorean settlements in Middle-earth. Some of his articles are part of my inspiration for all this... at least they've heightened an interest I already had in the subject matter - and his speculation gives me something to build upon, whereas I had a much more blank slate to start with otherwise.

[Valandil]

OK - I'm FINALLY getting on my Chapter 1 reading for the LOTR Book Discussion Project... and it's making ME want to hear more about Hobbits. Or at least, one in particular: The Old Took! Why did Gandalf have such a close relationship with him? Why did he live so long? How come his offspring were not that particularly long-lived (short life spans for hobbits it seems, in fact!)?

Someone write that book and TELL us!! :) :p

[Beruthiel's cat]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well, I've never considered myself much of a writer, but *sigh* I'm starting to think I'll have no rest until I write my Chronicles of Arnor. It would go from late Second Age - at least through the end of the Third Age and maybe into the Fourth a bit. I'm thinking a collection of short stories, mostly dealing with the royal family line, along with some background information about the people, their customs, etc. Of course I'll stick faithfully to Tolkien's work... except that I have noted some discrepancies in PoME... so some of that information may have to be slightly amended.

Um... this may take me awhile... like 15 or 20 years or something. :D

Wish me luck... I'll try to post a short story in 'Writer's Workshop' now and again - as the years roll along. ;)

Who says you aren't much of a writer? Get crackin' bud! You can do it! (And anything you write is good practice, so if you putter along at several projects at once, you're still accomplishing something...take it from me, the Queen of Fragmented Multi-Tasking...)

As far as Hobbit history is concerned, I could really be interested in that. The Old Took is a fascinating character and his offspring are too (Beladonna, Peregrin, etc).

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Beruthiel's cat
...The Old Took is a fascinating character and his offspring are too (Beladonna, Peregrin, etc).

You know, in 'The Hobbit' - where Gandalf comes off as perturbed to be so readily dismissed by the son of Belladona Took - and I think an earlier part where the narration describes Bilbo's past - and mentions something like Belladona being one of the 'marvellous Took sisters' ('marvellous' or whichever adjective JRRT employs) - it actually makes me think of personal family history a bit. My paternal grandfather was one of 12 children... 6 boys and 6 girls. Now, while the whole brood was quite spread out, you can STILL get the picture of the "____-family boys" and the "_____-family girls" being grouped together like that and having some local notoriety.

(Uh - great-gramps was one of twenty - and his father had like 4 different wives (only one at a time though) and had children over about a 50+ year stretch... you'd think we'd have taken over the world by now, but not so! :p ;) )

[Beruthiel's cat]

My dad's father was one of 12 with an identical boy/girl ratio. The children all survived to adulthood and they were spread over the span of 22 years (can you believe it). Grandpa was number 6 child and my father is only 6 years older than his youngest aunt!

Great-gramps only had one wife, though. (Those Alabama hill folk must have Numenorean blood! ;) )

I'm gonna have to do some more hobbit research now.

You always do this to me! :p

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Beruthiel's cat
Grandpa was number 6 child and my father is only 6 years older than his youngest aunt!


Oh yeah!? Well... my dad and I once realized, once he got the family history all worked up - that my grandpa got a new (uncle or aunt - I forget which) when he was 18! Imagine the blow to an 18-year old young buck... grandpa just had another baby! :p

I was STARTING to wonder if we were from the same family - but no Alabama connection I know of... the family of 12 was raised in Centralia, IL... I think the previous family in perhaps Springfield - or maybe in different towns in southern Illinois.

[Beruthiel's cat]

Originally posted by Valandil
I was STARTING to wonder if we were from the same family - but no Alabama connection I know of... the family of 12 was raised in Centralia, IL... I think the previous family in perhaps Springfield - or maybe in different towns in southern Illinois.

Me too!! But my dad's from 'Bama (research indicates they got there via North Carolina and Georgia) and my mom's from Michigan (North German ancestry). No Illinois connection I know of, though I think some shirt-tails may have moved in a more mid-westerly direction...

I did go to college in Illinois, however. ;)

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Beruthiel's cat
Who says you aren't much of a writer? Get crackin' bud! You can do it!

Oh... and 'Thank you!' :)