Marilyn Manson

[Millane]

i read this the other day and we discussed it in our philosophy class and everyone found it very interesting. It is Marilyn Manson's response to being blamed for the Columbine shootings...
Columbine: Whose Fault Is It?
It is sad to think that the first few people on earth needed no books, movies, games or music to inspire cold-blooded murder. The day that Cain bashed his brother Abel's brains in, the only motivation he needed was his own human disposition to violence. Whether you interpret the Bible as literature or as the final word of whatever God may be, Christianity has given us an image of death and sexuality that we have based our culture around. A half-naked dead man hangs in most homes and around our necks, and we have just taken that for granted all our lives. Is it a symbol of hope or hopelessness? The world's most famous murder-suicide was also the birth of the death icon -- the blueprint for celebrity. Unfortunately, for all of their inspiring morality, nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.

A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy. The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dipshits Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

We applaud the creation of a bomb whose sole purpose is to destroy all of mankind, and we grow up watching our president's brains splattered all over Texas. Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised. Does anyone think the Civil War was the least bit civil? If television had existed, you could be sure they would have been there to cover it, or maybe even participate in it, like their violent car chase of Princess Di. Disgusting vultures looking for corpses, exploiting, ****ing, filming and serving it up for our hungry appetites in a gluttonous display of endless human stupidity.

When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.

Man's greatest fear is chaos. It was unthinkable that these kids did not have a simple black-and-white reason for their actions. And so a scapegoat was needed. I remember hearing the initial reports from Littleton, that Harris and Klebold were wearing makeup and were dressed like Marilyn Manson, whom they obviously must worship, since they were dressed in black. Of course, speculation snowballed into making me the poster boy for everything that is bad in the world. These two idiots weren't wearing makeup, and they weren't dressed like me or like goths. Since Middle America has not heard of the music they did listen to (KMFDM and Rammstein, among others), the media picked something they thought was similar.

Responsible journalists have reported with less publicity that Harris and Klebold were not Marilyn Manson fans -- that they even disliked my music. Even if they were fans, that gives them no excuse, nor does it mean that music is to blame. Did we look for James Huberty's inspiration when he gunned down people at McDonald's? What did Timothy McVeigh like to watch? What about David Koresh, Jim Jones? Do you think entertainment inspired Kip Kinkel, or should we blame the fact that his father bought him the guns he used in the Springfield, Oregon, murders? What inspires Bill Clinton to blow people up in Kosovo? Was it something that Monica Lewinsky said to him? Isn't killing just killing, regardless if it's in Vietnam or Jonesboro, Arkansas? Why do we justify one, just because it seems to be for the right reasons? Should there ever be a right reason? If a kid is old enough to drive a car or buy a gun, isn't he old enough to be held personally responsible for what he does with his car or gun? Or if he's a teenager, should someone else be blamed because he isn't as enlightened as an eighteen-year-old?

[Millane]

America loves to find an icon to hang its guilt on. But, admittedly, I have assumed the role of Antichrist; I am the Nineties voice of individuality, and people tend to associate anyone who looks and behaves differently with illegal or immoral activity. Deep down, most adults hate people who go against the grain. It's comical that people are naive enough to have forgotten Elvis, Jim Morrison and Ozzy so quickly. All of them were subjected to the same age-old arguments, scrutiny and prejudice. I wrote a song called "Lunchbox," and some journalists have interpreted it as a song about guns. Ironically, the song is about being picked on and fighting back with my Kiss lunch box, which I used as a weapon on the playground. In 1979, metal lunch boxes were banned because they were considered dangerous weapons in the hands of delinquents. I also wrote a song called "Get Your Gunn." The title is spelled with two n's because the song was a reaction to the murder of Dr. David Gunn, who was killed in Florida by pro-life activists while I was living there. That was the ultimate hypocrisy I witnessed growing up: that these people killed someone in the name of being "pro-life."

The somewhat positive messages of these songs are usually the ones that sensationalists misinterpret as promoting the very things I am decrying. Right now, everyone is thinking of how they can prevent things like Littleton. How do you prevent AIDS, world war, depression, car crashes? We live in a free country, but with that freedom there is a burden of personal responsibility. Rather than teaching a child what is moral and immoral, right and wrong, we first and foremost can establish what the laws that govern us are. You can always escape hell by not believing in it, but you cannot escape death and you cannot escape prison.

It is no wonder that kids are growing up more cynical; they have a lot of information in front of them. They can see that they are living in a world that's made of bullshit. In the past, there was always the idea that you could turn and run and start something better. But now America has become one big mall, and because of the Internet and all of the technology we have, there's nowhere to run. People are the same everywhere. Sometimes music, movies and books are the only things that let us feel like someone else feels like we do. I've always tried to let people know it's OK, or better, if you don't fit into the program. Use your imagination -- if some geek from Ohio can become something, why can't anyone else with the willpower and creativity?

I chose not to jump into the media frenzy and defend myself, though I was begged to be on every single TV show in existence. I didn't want to contribute to these fame-seeking journalists and opportunists looking to fill their churches or to get elected because of their self-righteous finger-pointing. They want to blame entertainment? Isn't religion the first real entertainment? People dress up in costumes, sing songs and dedicate themselves in eternal fandom. Everyone will agree that nothing was more entertaining than Clinton shooting off his prick and then his bombs in true political form. And the news -- that's obvious. So is entertainment to blame? I'd like media commentators to ask themselves, because their coverage of the event was some of the most gruesome entertainment any of us have seen.

I think that the National Rifle Association is far too powerful to take on, so most people choose Doom, The Basketball Diaries or yours truly. This kind of controversy does not help me sell records or tickets, and I wouldn't want it to. I'm a controversial artist, one who dares to have an opinion and bothers to create music and videos that challenge people's ideas in a world that is watered-down and hollow. In my work I examine the America we live in, and I've always tried to show people that the devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. So don't expect the end of the world to come one day out of the blue -- it's been happening every day for a long time.


-Marilyn Manson

Many people misjudge MM because of rumours or even the simple fact, as he said in the last paragraph, that he has a different view or opinion and people dont like it. Most of todays artists, if not all, wouldnt dare to do something that didnt fit into the norm, and as such their music and image loses any worth or meaning.
I would say i'd have to live in America to agree or disagree to his views on the society but im sure there are people who would disagree...
What is your view of Marilyn Manson? or basically say anything related to him i dont really care:D
2 more weeks till Grotesk Burlesk WOOO!:p

P.S. sorry the link wouldnt work :( and its too long for one post:o

[Sween]

A very intresting and well thought out quote from him there. i have to admit i do agree with him on many issues (not least the gun one).

I have to admitt ive allways thought it funny they tried to pin it on manson ive listened to manson so ngs and allthough they are all pretty crap there is nothing in them telling people to go out and kill

[Lalaith]

That's a really interesting article and I am glad that I read it.
I can say that I mostly agree with him. He has thought about his statement and I think he deserves that the people listen to his point of view.
And I appreciate him for being different. Not another clone in this ridiculous world.

[gimli7410]

i dont really have any response to this but i wanna say that i liked his response in bowling for columbine(im pretty sure this isnt the same speech)

also did you know mansons real name is brian hugh warner. just wanted to say that:p

[Millane]

Originally posted by gimli7410
i dont really have any response to this but i wanna say that i liked his response in bowling for columbine(im pretty sure this isnt the same speech)

also did you know mansons real name is brian hugh warner. just wanted to say that:p this was an essay Manson wrote for the Rolling Stone magazine... yeah it always makes me laugh that the Antichrist Superstar has a name like Brian:D Marilyn Manson suits him a lot better hahaha.
That's a really interesting article and I am glad that I read it.
I can say that I mostly agree with him. He has thought about his statement and I think he deserves that the people listen to his point of view.
And I appreciate him for being different. Not another clone in this ridiculous world. hmmm one of Mansons great talents is that he can get his point across in a very clear way, unlike some of his music where some people who dont think about it can take it the wrong way. on the 'not being another clone thing' i often wonder how people can take MM as being a bad influence on young people, at school we're urged to be different and thats basically MM's message. How that can be taken as hurting us younguns ill never know:rolleyes:
I have to admitt ive allways thought it funny they tried to pin it on manson ive listened to manson so ngs and allthough they are all pretty crap there is nothing in them telling people to go out and kill again the problem is people have a bad image of him and they look at everything he does in the worst possible context it could be seen in, the people who like him are labelled as freaks or goths automatically for the simple reason that they understand him and his music.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Millane

hmmm one of Mansons great talents is that he can get his point across in a very clear way, unlike some of his music where some people who dont think about it can take it the wrong way. on the 'not being another clone thing' i often wonder how people can take MM as being a bad influence on young people, at school we're urged to be different and thats basically MM's message. How that can be taken as hurting us younguns ill never know:rolleyes:

In my opinion movies and computer games and lyrics can only influence persons who are already weak and need help. But I wouldn't rate that influence to high.
When I first saw MM I didn't think anything of him. He was just there. I don't know why, but I was never judging him.
But then he appeard on MTV's diary. His statements were really good and you could really see a glimpse of Brian Warner through the whole MM fassade. And I liked what he said.

People complain about peer pressure and the need for young people to be cool and in and to do things that everybody does and then on the other hand they complain abbout a person who is against all these things and does just his own thing.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Millane
Most of todays artists, if not all, wouldnt dare to do something that didnt fit into the norm, and as such their music and image loses any worth or meaning.


Yea, I agree with you that mainstream music artists wouldn't dare try that.. but there are alot of other artists who do expresss themselves freely and don't care if it will affect their image.

Nevermore is a good example, I recommend their album "Politics In Ecstasy".

Politics in Ecstasy

I hate you, the pigs who turn the screws, I hate everything you stand for
I hate the world we've bred, political pigs we've fed, our fathers left us nothing but a dead world
Beyond repair down in despair, our fathers left us nothing
Choking on the influx of technology I realize the politics of ecstasy
And we can't change what's in stone
We've been had. Injustice to the masses, destroy the land and crush the poor
The pigs are fueled by greed, political ways obscene, our fathers left corruption in this dead world
Beyond repair down is despair, our fathers left us nothing
Choking on the puke of their industry, regurgitated propaganda ministry
Freedom's never free, the politics of ecstasy are these:
Freedom's never free, these are the politics of ecstasy:
I hate you , the pigs who turn the screws, I hate everything you stand for
I hate the world we've bred, political pigs we've fed, our fathers left us nothing but a dead world
Beyond repair down in despair, our fathers left us nothing
Choking on the influx of technology I realize the politics of ecstasy
Freedom's never free, the politics of ecstasy are these:
Freedom's never free, the politics of ecstasy are these:
If you take a step back and you realize your home can't be a perfect world
There's still hope the hate you fell will fade, injustice is gone:
Injustice is gone for a little while

[Sheeana]

Well, that sounds like it was ripped off Harrison's "Piggies"

Have you seen the little piggies
crawling in the dirt?
And for all the little piggies
life is getting worse,
always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
in their starched white shirts?
You will find the bigger piggies
stirring up the dirt,
always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their styes with all their backing
they don't care what goes on around.
In their eyes there's something lacking
what they need's a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
living piggy lives.
You can see them out for dinner
with their piggy wives
clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

This is my favorite thread I have ever found on Entmoot. I can't say that I disagree with a single thing Manson said. His clarity help me put into words what I have agreed with all along. Difference should be encouraged. People or things or games or anything that seems violent to the media are simply expressing their opinions through what they dislike. People are full of all kinds of opinions, which ones they may present should be examined carefully. People who have been described as "different" have been hounded and bothered. Many instances, they will not tolerate this and simply express what bothers them. In individuals, sometimes this is the only communication. It was true for me a while back...
Too many things are too familiar these days to be taken seriously.
For all the telecommunications we have today, communication is at an all-time low. And I don't mean the spread of news.

[Millane]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Yea, I agree with you that mainstream music artists wouldn't dare try that.. but there are alot of other artists who do expresss themselves freely and don't care if it will affect their image. yeah there would be plenty of bands that would and do dare to challenge a set behaviour code but i think a lot of artists would start out that way and then descend to just working for money, they fail to see that maybe other people may appreciate their views and still buy their cds.
OrnelÃ*rë Mistë do you like Marilyn Manson or just like the whole self-expression idea... either way keep it up or we'll all become Mechanical Animals:(

[gimli7410]

it turns out my english teacher really likes manson. im not sure if its for his music but he likes what he says like in the article in this thread.

[Millane]

Originally posted by Lalaith
But then he appeard on MTV's diary. His statements were really good and you could really see a glimpse of Brian Warner through the whole MM fassade. And I liked what he said. Marilyn Manson and Brian Warner are one in the same... i havent got the article with me but it was addressing this issue. He says that there is no difference between the two and that is one thing that he has recieved much praise for, being a 'true' artist i cant find that article but ill put it up when i can... here is something i found on the MM site the other day
Johnny Depp speaks on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory remake
Johnny Depp is keen to take on the lead role in Tim Burtons's, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory remake, but he'll happily step aside if rocker Marilyn Manson wants the part.

Manson and Depp are the only names in the running to recreate the beloved ROALD DAHL eccentric, and Depp admits the rocker would be the perfect Wonka.

He says, "It's an exciting possibility for me to go back and do another film with Tim. It would be a ball. I'll keep all my digits crossed, as it were.

"That said, I'd go and see Manson as Willy Wonka. I'd go and see him in anything."

[posted 9/6/2003 U.S.A.]
i for one would love to see MM play Willy Wonka:D

only 5 days till GROTESK BURLESK:eek:

[Khamûl]

Wait a minute, back up the Oompa Loompa truck here... Marilyn Manson as Willy Wonka?! I think that would be seriously disturbing to little kids.

[Millane]

Originally posted by Khamûl
Wait a minute, back up the Oompa Loompa truck here... Marilyn Manson as Willy Wonka?! I think that would be seriously disturbing to little kids. yeah it would be pretty ****ed for the kiddies, but i think if Tim Burton is doing it it's gunna be disturbing whoever plays Wonka. It annoyed the **** out of me when Craig David got his mug on some crappy tv show and they (him and the interviewer) started talking about how Craig David must be the only one to be inspired by Charlie and the Chocolate factory, fool had obviously never heard of Marilyn Manson:mad:

[Millane]

ohhhh i have finally been to the GROTESK GURLESK and now i can fully appreciate Manson to the degree he deserves... There were so many cool fans their, of course there were the losers that rocked up in metallica, soad and even one brave soul in a RHCP shirts, and their was a sick bloke that was dressed up as a girl talking about the time he met MM, he said he was great but M.W Gacy was a bit of a loser so he stole his belt...
i got excited at one point when he asked some girl her name which sounded very elvish and i said that to my friend and then Manson said 'sounds like some sorta Lord of the Rings ****'

has anyone seen the This is the New **** video, it has him singing to a fake crowd (the real crowds are so much better) but it has his set and it was so incredibly cool that i wont attemtp to describe it... He dressed up as Mickey Mouse and did its a small world after all which was great... and then when the lights came back on and everyone thought it had finished we heard 'we hate love, we love hate, we hate love, we love hate...' and he came back and did Irresponsible Hate Anthem to finish it off.

the start of the concert was soooo funny, Mandy Kane opened for MM and he came out and tried to look cool by opening vic tinnies at the start of each song and he threw one into the crowd and someone threw it back at him, then the big chant of "**** YOU, WE WANT MANSON" went up and the wanker had the nerve to say im better than Manson... then i think MK got a bit angry coz John 5 was on the side getting his guitar ready and someone screamed out 'ITS JOHN 5' and he waved and basically destroyed the song... anyway i can talk for hours about this so ill stop now:D

[Comic Book Guy]

Bah, Alice Cooper does it far better.

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by Millane
There were so many cool fans their, of course there were the losers that rocked up in metallica, soad



hey hey dont knock soad they are good:)and mettalica is god so....

[Millane]

Originally posted by gimli7410
hey hey dont knock soad they are good:)and mettalica is god so.... ohhh im not having a go at the different bands (cept maybe RHCP :rolleyes: :p ) but why go to a MM concert in a SOAD shirt?
Bah, Alice Cooper does it far better. ohhhh man ive become addicted to Manson since GB... normally i would laugh at someone who went to the Big Day Out, but if Manson will be their i will. I cant say im the biggest Alice Cooper fan but i agree with the reporters that have claimed Manson as the best performer of this (if not all) time

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by Millane
ohhh im not having a go at the different bands (cept maybe RHCP :rolleyes: :p ) but why go to a MM concert in a SOAD shirt?



true true. make fun of rhcp as much as you want though:p

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Millane
ohhh im not having a go at the different bands (cept maybe RHCP :rolleyes: :p ) but why go to a MM concert in a SOAD shirt?

Just curious... (no offense intended) why are you judging people by what they wear?

[Millane]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Just curious... (no offense intended) why are you judging people by what they wear? well for one i dont know what the point is, of wearing a different bands shirt to a MM concert:confused: and for another a lot of them were just wankers trying to antagonise the fans e.g. some deadshit screaming out we want metallica (wearing a metallica shirt), i think he was supposed to be funny but nobody responded so i think he wasted $90, moron...

[Hemel]

I think Marilyn Manson rocks :D I've been only to one live yet but there's another one next month :cool: I was very surprised at the stage show. I've read a load of the books about him as well, and there are some gross things in there ('Kelly's corn hole' BARF!) but he talks a lot of sense. I can't believe how silly they are to try to blame Columbine on him. People always like to try to blame the individual for things and say it's because of this bad or that bad. I think doing that is just a cover up and lazy too, because it's easy to do that and saves as well having to look for what might be deeper reasons.

I saw the film 'Bowling for Columbine'. Yes, I KNOW it's been seriously taken apart and Michael Moore was less than honest in his editing of things :rolleyes:. But that's the sort of thing I mean - that it went and tried to look for an explanation that was not just the idea that there are bad individuals and the rest of us are okay. I think that's what Marilyn Manson's saying too :)

[Millane]

ohhh nice one what show have you been to before???
i went to Grotesk Burlesk last month and it is ****ing amazing, Guns God and Government didnt come to australia so the dvd will have to suffice and the Last tour on Earth i wasnt into Manson, poor me:(
did you see Astonishing Panorama of the Endtimes live:eek: i would love to see that live...
the only think with Grotesk Burlesk i would have changed would be not doing Paranoir (didnt like it as much as his others) and added Lunchbox, Antichrist Superstar and The Reflecting God... i would have prefered the Death Song or the Love song over the Fight song but it was still awesome:D
OMG Disposable Teens rocked live... He had his two hot as dancers and they were so cool in mOBSCENE, and then i saw them after the show out the front mingling...
I still cant make up my mind about Tim Skold, Twiggy sure left him big shoes to fill, i dont doubt his musical ability but Twiggy was just so cool.

[Hemel]

ooops sorry, missed this! :eek:

I went to Guns, Gods, and Roses, and it was - just WOW! Totally phenomenal - I have never ever seen a show like it before. Completely knocked me over, and when he appeared on stilts - OMG! The whole lot, it was grotesque and yet really fascinating all at the same time - there were things flicking around all in my head as I was seeing things differently! And he used a torch, pointed into the audience - that was really uncomfortable, being spotted like that, scary! - and of course everyone made a fuss about the sex scene, the media, how disgusting they said - I thought he was brilliant, the whole lot was brilliant! :)

I've just seen Grotesk Burlesque - you're right, mOBSCENE was awesome and his two females dancing on those pedestals made it, just completely. They were totally brilliant all through - though yes, Antichrist Superstar - waaaaa! :D You know something? I have to say that Grotesk Burlesque was great - oh yes, but it wasn't as good, I thought, as Guns, Gods, and Roses. Um ... hugs to you, and sorry! :) :D

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Millane
Marilyn Manson and Brian Warner are one in the same... i havent got the article with me but it was addressing this issue. He says that there is no difference between the two and that is one thing that he has recieved much praise for, being a 'true' artist i cant find that article but ill put it up when i can...
Well, I'll believe you anyway. But most of the people see only the frightening and dark MM and not what's behind him.

[Hemel]

My guineapig is called Brian.

Yes, that is why! :D

[Millane]

Originally posted by Hemel
ooops sorry, missed this! :eek:

I went to Guns, Gods, and Roses, and it was - just WOW! Totally phenomenal - I have never ever seen a show like it before. Completely knocked me over, and when he appeared on stilts - OMG! The whole lot, it was grotesque and yet really fascinating all at the same time - there were things flicking around all in my head as I was seeing things differently! And he used a torch, pointed into the audience - that was really uncomfortable, being spotted like that, scary! - and of course everyone made a fuss about the sex scene, the media, how disgusting they said - I thought he was brilliant, the whole lot was brilliant! :)

I've just seen Grotesk Burlesque - you're right, mOBSCENE was awesome and his two females dancing on those pedestals made it, just completely. They were totally brilliant all through - though yes, Antichrist Superstar - waaaaa! :D You know something? I have to say that Grotesk Burlesque was great - oh yes, but it wasn't as good, I thought, as Guns, Gods, and Roses. Um ... hugs to you, and sorry! :) :D :eek: thats awesome:D... did manson play Antichrist when you saw Grotesk Burlesk????... the media in Australia seems to love Manson, he has been raved about in many reviews and praised for his great performance (maybe coz now they know he's not telling kiddies to go kill there friends)... we didnt think he would play the Dope Show but he did and (s)aint aswell, he even said a few lines from 1996...
Originally posted by Lalaith
Well, I'll believe you anyway. But most of the people see only the frightening and dark MM and not what's behind him. yeah fair enough, lots of people do see that and regardless of whether its true there are always lots of people to keep the rumors going:rolleyes:
My guineapig is called Brian. hahahahaha:D

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Millane

yeah fair enough, lots of people do see that and regardless of whether its true there are always lots of people to keep the rumors going:rolleyes:
hahahahaha:D
Pop culture and society do not understand black sheep. Has always been that way. But if you want to attrac attention you have to do something else. Mainstreaming doesn't help.
And I thing his way of performing is quite good.

[Millane]

Marilyn Manson The Greatest
Marilyn Manson is currently in the studio recording new material, some of which will appear on a "best of collection" that will be released this fall. Besides all of their classics, the album will feature the new single, a cover of Depeche Mode's "Personal Jesus." In addition to a booklet of rare photos and artwork by Marilyn Manson, the entire video catalog will be included for the first time ever on DVD, featuring the never-before-seen, uncensored cut of "(s)AINT" directed by Asia Argento.
The band has decided to part ways with guitarist John 5 as recording sessions for the next album begin.

fellow Manson fans (and by that i mean Hemel and Lin, who really does like Manson she just wont admit it) we have a new cd and its going to rock. im probably just doing this for myself but now is the chance for all of you heathens to enjoy the world of Manson....
Unfortunately John 5 wont be there:( His guitarist position will be handed on to Tim Skold, who also took over from Twiggy Ramirez, this really annoys me because John 5 rocked but i havent heard anything apart from what is posted above so i dont know the reasons....
i half hoped this was an April Fools Joke (for John 5 of course) and it does remind me of the dvd where it is written JOHN 5 AND JT ARE DEAD, TOUR OVER. but something tells me this isnt a joke...
anyway at least were getting a best of album out of it, a chance for HB to sample some real music:D
there is some more stuff on his website over the few days,
a piece Manson wrote about The Doors, a couple of interviews including one about Mansons upcoming role in The Heart is deceitful above all things, new Manson mOBSCENE and Fight Song figurines and of course this new revelation (just go to www.marilynmanson.com and click the MM thing)
:( .................................................. ................................:)

[Catgirl]

Um, I don't mean to knock any Manson fans, but I was just wondering how you can find sence in liking or even listening to a guy that does things like this: http://www.theonion.com/onion3703/marilyn_mason.html

Also, I do agree with some of the things that Manson says, but in general, he is not the best 'role model' for anyone. But that's just my opinion.

[zinnite]

Originally posted by Catgirl
Um, I don't mean to knock any Manson fans, but I was just wondering how you can find sence in liking or even listening to a guy that does things like this: http://www.theonion.com/onion3703/marilyn_mason.html
I don't think it's possible that someone can get that deep into The Onion's archives and not realize it's all satire, so I'll assume that your sarcasm was lost on me as a result of the medium.

I don't so much love his music, but I do really like him. And I'm really looking forward to his take on "Personal Jesus."

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by Catgirl
Um, I don't mean to knock any Manson fans, but I was just wondering how you can find sence in liking or even listening to a guy that does things like this: http://www.theonion.com/onion3703/marilyn_mason.html

Also, I do agree with some of the things that Manson says, but in general, he is not the best 'role model' for anyone. But that's just my opinion.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA im sorry but i cant tell if you took that article serious cuz look at the pictures they are all picture cut outs just photoshopped in. im sorry but not to knock you thats too funny that you took that serious. Also marilyn manson may look like a freak but how can you judge a book by its cover this man is probably one of the most insightful people out there because he has experienced so much crap compared to some morons who reads a book and gets a degree in pyschology or somethin

Also if you ake this seriously then.... im not even gonna say anything :rolleyes:
"Have you people forgotten already?" Manson told The Washington Post. "You all thought I was responsible for Columbine two years ago. Well, I was! I was! I know I vehemently denied it at the time, but, really, I personally told those two kids to shoot up the school. I'm serious. I sent them an e-mail. And I told them to worship Satan, too. You hear that, kids? Marilyn Manson says you should shoot your friends in the head with a gun! And everyone should eat babies! And rape their dead grandparents! And poop on a church! There, now will someone please be offended?"

[Millane]

Originally posted by Catgirl
Um, I don't mean to knock any Manson fans, but I was just wondering how you can find sence in liking or even listening to a guy that does things like this: http://www.theonion.com/onion3703/marilyn_mason.html
OOOHHH MY GOD:eek: :rolleyes:
Also, I do agree with some of the things that Manson says, but in general, he is not the best 'role model' for anyone. But that's just my opinion. why not? i happen to think that Manson is one of the best role models a young person could have, he's intelligent and creative and he encourages people to be creative and express themselves, but like everything there are two takes on things, on the dvd for example Manson goes through "**** nature. **** voting. **** taxes. **** retirement and College funds. **** Nature. **** breakfast" etc etc, now some people see this and start saying "what kind of role model is this" more intelligent people ask themselves what he is doing and for what purpose and they work out something like "ohhh he's telling people not to care about all the stuff that just burdens young people" after all **** everything isnt such a bad idea is it?;) i was just wondering why you dont seem to think he's a suitable role model?
ditto Gimli:p

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by Millane
ditto Gimli:p


:D i dont know if catgirl is comin back ;)

[Catgirl]

Well, I do agree with some fo the things he says, but in my opinion, the way he appears, it seems he would not have a very 'positive' effect on many kids. He may have good ideas or opinions, but most kids will not see that, they will just concentrate on what he acts like and how the media describes him.

[Millane]

Originally posted by Catgirl
Well, I do agree with some fo the things he says, but in my opinion, the way he appears, it seems he would not have a very 'positive' effect on many kids. He may have good ideas or opinions, but most kids will not see that, they will just concentrate on what he acts like and how the media describes him. it appears as if you have missed many points entirely, first off (with a few very odd exceptions) im not talking about 5 year olds or anything, im talking young adults. Could you be a little more specific as to appearance, i think you are talking clothing, makeup, hair etc is that right? hahaha first off i see nothing wrong with some classy suits, burlesque hats and some make up, a lot of Mansons appearance concerns art and theres nothing wrong with him liking a particular fashion or having a particular theme, if you think theres something wrong with creativity then i know this post isnt going anywhere. His appearance itself is also promoting "be yourself, who cares what other people think of you"... now whats so negative about his appearance:confused: :p also a bit more specific about actions please?
the media portraying Manson in some light is no flaw of Manson's and if people choose to read some absolute trash and believe it (and youve just shown that it happens;) ) then that is there fault... Also with a quote of Oscar Wilde's in your signature i thought you would understand that when art is misconstrued it is by no fault of the artist but of the observer...

[Catgirl]

I do know exactly what you are saying. It is not the clothes that Manson wears or the hats he wears that I do not like, they are very likeable, but it is just that, I grew up in a very strict Christian home, and that is probably why I don't exactly get the best 'vibe' from Manson. Also, I have nothing against being creative or being yourself, but in my opinion I have seen some of his concerts and albums and to me, he does not come across as a very, well in my standards, a very 'good' or 'morally' correct person. He does not seem to have a 'positive image'. And I know that I do not know Manson as well as you (Millane) or gimli7410, and I probably do not have right to just judge him without knowing his well, but I do think that things that the media comes out with most likely are sometimes even a little bit of the truth, just twisted a lot. :rolleyes:
And yes Millane, from my signature, I do understand that it is the observers fault when they misconscrue art. But you also have to consider what the art is portraying!?!
And again, I do not have a grudge against Manson, I just don't personally accept or apreciate some aspects of him. (But that does not include his clothes or stuff like that)

[Millane]

Originally posted by Catgirl
I do know exactly what you are saying. It is not the clothes that Manson wears or the hats he wears that I do not like, they are very likeable, but it is just that, I grew up in a very strict Christian home, and that is probably why I don't exactly get the best 'vibe' from Manson. yes, Manson's art and views etc are very similar to a range of great philosophers, would you get the same vibe from say Neitsche? or is it just how Manson portrays his ideas that bothers you?, so because Manson takes a "i cant believe in things that dont believe in me" attitude towards Christianity we automatically think that Manson is bad, would you agree that Christianity, although claiming to be, isnt the most accomodating religions to different people?
hmmm now this is something Sartre would be disgusted at you for:D your values should be yours regardless of your upbringing...
Also, I have nothing against being creative or being yourself, but in my opinion I have seen some of his concerts and albums and to me, he does not come across as a very, well in my standards, a very 'good' or 'morally' correct person. He does not seem to have a 'positive image'. sorry to be an absolute bastard about this but could you maybe give a few examples (im not trying to prove you wrong or anything i just wanna see where your coming from) of how Manson isnt 'good' or 'moral', back to your 'positive' image again i dont really know what you mean without specifics, what is it because he does drugs? or maybe just because he questions something that you consider unquestionable?
but I do think that things that the media comes out with most likely are sometimes even a little bit of the truth, just twisted a lot. like what, Manson kills animals, manson pulled out his girlfriends eye and ****ed her eye socket, manson cut off his toe so he could inject heroin into it, Mansons got a funny eye because his dad beat him when he was a child, and more seriously Manson encourages young people to go out and kill there fellow students... This is all bullshit and you wont findand truth in it, these twats cant even understand that Manson wears a contact lens (ohhh that explains how it changes color so much:rolleyes: ) because it is not as terrible as if Manson had been beaten as a child... Most of the proper media who interview Manson or go see his concert themselves, your right, will tell the truth, but its not BAD things there saying, most of it is praise for an intelligent man and a gifted artist and entertainer..
I do understand that it is the observers fault when they misconscrue art. But you also have to consider what the art is portraying!?! ok this last bit makes it sound as if it is his ideas that you do not like, either way i dont think this is going anywhere but anyway

[Catgirl]

I agree that this discussion is not going anywhere. But I just want to clerify that, I do not think Manson is a 'horrible' person, he is just someone I personaly don't really like. And that is just my view. He does have good aspects about him, but my opinion still stands. And I respect you for your opinion.


As you said..."would you agree that Christianity, although claiming to be, isnt the most accomodating religions to different people?" I do have to agree, most Christians or even just churches are not open to things or people that are different or oppose them. But, I am open to most new things, I just have my own peson al views about certain things or people that probably won't change. ;)

Also, I do understand that Manson is an "intelligent man and a gifted artist and entertainer". But my views still hold strong.
:)

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Catgirl
I agree that this discussion is not going anywhere. But I just want to clerify that, I do not think Manson is a 'horrible' person, he is just someone I personaly don't really like. And that is just my view. He does have good aspects about him, but my opinion still stands. And I respect you for your opinion.


As you said..."would you agree that Christianity, although claiming to be, isnt the most accomodating religions to different people?" I do have to agree, most Christians or even just churches are not open to things or people that are different or oppose them. But, I am open to most new things, I just have my own peson al views about certain things or people that probably won't change. ;)

Also, I do understand that Manson is an "intelligent man and a gifted artist and entertainer". But my views still hold strong.
:)
dont worry Catgirl , I'm with you.
otherwise, I'll just keep my mouth shut on this subject:D

[Millane]

Originally posted by Catgirl
Also, I do understand that Manson is an "intelligent man and a gifted artist and entertainer". But my views still hold strong.
:) i actually put that bit in concerning the media portrayal of Manson, it seems to me that you are listening to and accepting a whole lot of negative stuff about Manson that isnt true and your basing your opinion of him around that...
dont worry Catgirl , I'm with you.
otherwise, I'll just keep my mouth shut on this subject well HB it would seem you have opened your mouth already, so please go on:D would it be fine of me to just say Hector Berlioz is an absolute ****head, who's views suck and he's generally just a morally ****ed up person, with nothing to back it up with?:evil:

[hectorberlioz]

are you trying to provoke me:p ....well its starting to work:evil: :p

[Millane]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
are you trying to provoke me:p ....well its starting to work:evil: :p indeed i am, im interested to hear your thoughts on the topic, just wondering if you mindlessly take everything you read as fact aswell

[BeardofPants]

Oh Millane, are you mindlessly following manson again? :p

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Millane
indeed i am, im interested to hear your thoughts on the topic, just wondering if you mindlessly take everything you read as fact aswell
Ok, I'll make it simple and nice:D
No, I dont believe all the wild stories about Manson (or any celeb or singer for that matter, because I know its all to sell the magazines;)).
But I certainly agree (with Catgirl) that his "entertainment" is quite off-the-wall, and is in my opinion, quite silly. And he is far from my favorite person in the world;) .
Not in my taste;) .

[Millane]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Oh Millane, are you mindlessly following manson again? :p of course;)
No, I dont believe all the wild stories about Manson (or any celeb or singer for that matter, because I know its all to sell the magazines). ok i was just wondering because you were agreeing with Catgirl, who im sure did just that.
But I certainly agree (with Catgirl) that his "entertainment" is quite off-the-wall, and is in my opinion, quite silly. And he is far from my favorite person in the world . Quite silly because you dont understand it, or silly as in childish, please i tried to ask Catgirl can you just give an example or something, because the statements you are saying are fairly general and typical i-dont-understand-him-so-its-stupid comments.
im so excited, next week im going down to melb to see Party Monster, if anyone has seen it id be glad to hear your thoughts. The Heart Is Decietful Above All Things is also sounding very good. From an interview done by JT Leroy with Marilyn Manson:
It is the wrap party, the celebration of the completion of filming of my book, The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things. Asia Argento directed it and plays my mother. In the film there is Jackson, my mother's boyfriend. He gets seduced by a ten year old after that child dresses up as his mother. Manson has that role. The part of a man I had sex with when I was ten. And he played the role with intuitive vulnerable brilliance that few gave him credit for possessing until they saw him in the Michael Moore film Bowling For Columbine.
Who else could play a man that has sex with a child in such a heartbreaking portrayal that makes you weep for him as well? also if anyone has heard anything on this film id like to hear, theres not really that much information on it at the moment though...

[Catgirl]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
dont worry Catgirl , I'm with you.

Thank you hb.


Now, Millane, I do not mindlessly take everything I read as fact. For example, if a newspaper came out with something that said, say, Jim Carrey had...perhaps murdered someone in his past, or maybe soomething not as drastic, that I would not take seriously no matter who said it. But the fact that some things are said about Manson, makes them more believeable because he is the kind of person who you might see doing something like that. Even though you say he wouldn't, and he may not, the idea that it is Manson we are talking about, makes things a little more serious.

Also, from what you said: "Quite silly because you dont understand it, or silly as in childish, please i tried to ask Catgirl can you just give an example or something, because the statements you are saying are fairly general and typical i-dont-understand-him-so-its-stupid comments."

It is "Quite silly" as in not needed and useless and just to put it plainly so you can understand, Stupid! Some of the stuff he does is, like hectorberlioz said, is "off the wall".

I hope you understand ;)

[Millane]

Originally posted by Catgirl
Now, Millane, I do not mindlessly take everything I read as fact. :rolleyes: let me refer you to the top of this page where you mindlessly took a very obvious joke as fact:rolleyes:
But the fact that some things are said about Manson, makes them more believeable because he is the kind of person who you might see doing something like that. Even though you say he wouldn't, and he may not, the idea that it is Manson we are talking about, makes things a little more serious. but you think he is the kind of person you might see doing something like that because you mindlessly take everything written about him and think its true...
It is "Quite silly" as in not needed and useless and just to put it plainly so you can understand, Stupid! Some of the stuff he does is, like hectorberlioz said, is "off the wall". No, by saying that you have just proved you are talking from the i-dont-understand-it-so-its-stupid stand. Manson doesnt do things that are useless and by saying that he does you are just saying to me that you are not only ignorant concerning Manson, but ignorant to anyones actions, people dont do things that are useless, if not for anything else, Manson does what he does for art...

[Lalaith_Elf]

Originally posted by Catgirl
It is "Quite silly" as in not needed and useless and just to put it plainly so you can understand, Stupid! Some of the stuff he does is, like hectorberlioz said, is "off the wall".

I hope you understand ;)

No I don't understand, so maybe you would like to run me through it. What 'useless' and 'stupid' acts has he done? I don't see anything wrong with what he does. He has a point to every action that he does - okay so we may not consciously see some of the point, but he knows what he's doing and why he's doing it. You can't just watch something or read something and make a judgement like the one you've made above. And I agree with what Millane's saying. He does it for art.

[Ragnarok]

and theres nothing wrong with him liking a particular fashion or having a particular theme, if you think theres something wrong with creativity then i know this post isnt going anywhere. His appearance itself is also promoting "be yourself, who cares what other people think of you"...

If you believe that is his message and you agree with it because you feel it has significant value or is insightful.. then why would you care if someone wore a SOAD shirt to a MM concert? It seems a bit hypocritical?

[Mercutio]

Manson is engaged (again). This time, to Dita Von Teese, some skanky model.

[hectorberlioz]

What model is not skanky?;)

[Millane]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
If you believe that is his message and you agree with it because you feel it has significant value or is insightful.. then why would you care if someone wore a SOAD shirt to a MM concert? It seems a bit hypocritical? you asked the same question on the previous page, and i answered you there, but i guess its relevant now so anyway, the only reason i could see as to why they were at a Marilyn Manson concert wearing other bands shirts was to be antagonising, personally i didnt go to a Manson concert to hear some people try to be amusing...
Manson is engaged (again). This time, to Dita Von Teese, some skanky model. Dita von Teese is not skanky, dont we all want a girlfriend that is willing to strip at a friends wedding renewal

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Millane
you asked the same question on the previous page, and i answered you there, but i guess its relevant now so anyway, the only reason i could see as to why they were at a Marilyn Manson concert wearing other bands shirts was to be antagonising, personally i didnt go to a Manson concert to hear some people try to be amusing...

Indeed, I did ask why you would judge others because they wore a SOAD shirt to a MM concert. However, your answer didn't make much sense then and now that you have stated what you feel is Manson's message I find it makes even less sense now. I understand how wearing a Metallica shirt and yelling we want metillica is rather stupid and antagonizing but I fail to grasp how wearing a certain band shirt is antagonising. By buying a ticket to MM concert I thought it would be quite obvious and it implied that they enjoy MM's music. Quite frankly I do not know anyone who buys tickets and goes to concerts that they don't like. And since Manson's message is about being creative and being your own person, it seems a bit odd that you find people were different shirts antagonising. The keyword is different... being creative and your own person is not about following what everone does, act or dress... otherwise everyone would be another "sheep in the flock." I just think that if you are all for creativity and being yourself I don't understand why wearing a different band shirt is antagonising... after all part of being creative is thinking differently and non conformity. If everything was the same, creativity would not exist.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Manson is engaged (again). This time, to Dita Von Teese, some skanky model.

Yea, I've heard her name before on tv ... I think it was VH1... they should make an interesting couple.

[Millane]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Indeed, I did ask why you would judge others because they wore a SOAD shirt to a MM concert. However, your answer didn't make much sense then and now that you have stated what you feel is Manson's message I find it makes even less sense now. I understand how wearing a Metallica shirt and yelling we want metillica is rather stupid and antagonizing but I fail to grasp how wearing a certain band shirt is antagonising. By buying a ticket to MM concert I thought it would be quite obvious and it implied that they enjoy MM's music. Quite frankly I do not know anyone who buys tickets and goes to concerts that they don't like. And since Manson's message is about being creative and being your own person, it seems a bit odd that you find people were different shirts antagonising. The keyword is different... being creative and your own person is not about following what everone does, act or dress... otherwise everyone would be another "sheep in the flock." I just think that if you are all for creativity and being yourself I don't understand why wearing a different band shirt is antagonising... after all part of being creative is thinking differently and non conformity. If everything was the same, creativity would not exist. hahahaha sorry my posts make sense to me (but thats more that i know what im thinking rather than my intelligible posts:D :rolleyes: ), it seemed to me (and if im wrong and im sure im not right about all of them) was that they wore these tops to try and get a rise out of people, im not saying they didnt like Manson it just seemed that there reason for dressing as they did was to try and be antagonising, i have no problem with dressing differently even if it is to create some sort of rise out of people, but the way these people did it shows how uncreative they were about it... I understand your point about being creative and dressing differently etc i just thought that these people were being incredibly uncreative, but then again thats just me:D

[BeardofPants]

In other words, Milicent was talking out of his butt again. :evil: :p

[Millane]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
In other words, Milicent was talking out of his butt again. :evil: :p miLLicent! 2 L's thankyou:rolleyes: :p
ok BoP its like me going to NZ with an 'i love Australia' shirt on, and not only wearing it, but thinking it was funny, now would you go "how creative of him, those Australians sure are a cut above us wierdo's" or would you think "what a dumb wanker does he think he's funny, those Australians are ****heads"
of course youd go for the first option :evil:

[BeardofPants]

Sowwy Milly. :p

Bah, we kiwis are too apathetic to care. :p

[Millane]

oooohhh thanks to marilynmanson.com we all have some new pictures of Manson in his role as Jackson in The Heart is Decietful Above All Things...
http://www.marilynmanson.com/press/040500newsjpeg1/heart2.jpg
http://www.marilynmanson.com/press/040500newsjpeg2/heart3.jpg
i have a feeling that it wont be playing anywhere near where i live but i would so love to see it, if any of you get to see it please tell me what you thought, i would love to see how Manson pulled off this character...

[Lady Ravyn]

manson is awesome

[The Gaffer]

A question for Mansonites:

What would you say is his definitive/best album?

[Millane]

Originally posted by Lady Ravyn
manson is awesome you are awesome:D sick avatar, i think im in need of a change too:p
Originally posted by The Gaffer
A question for Mansonites:
What would you say is his definitive/best album? :eek: i have never encountered a tougher questions, for me i count Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and the Golden Age of Grotesque, all equal top, followed by Portrait of an American Family and then below that is Remix & Repent and Smells Like Children, as far as singles go Disposable Teens is the best ever... A lot of Manson "fans" like to say Antichrist Superstar is Manson at his best and Golden Age was not Manson, which is utter bullshit, it is DIFFERENT Manson:rolleyes: i guess its hard to distinguish between those top 4 because they are such different sounds and themes, the definitive Manson is due out late this year, when his best of album will descend from the heavens and enlighten us all:p

[The Gaffer]

OK, thanks mate. Reason for asking is that my music collection is totally devoid of Manson and I am contemplating correcting that. I've heard quite a bit of his stuff which sounds really good, but you know how you can never remember the names of tracks and such like.

Plus there's that "record shop amnesia" where you can go in with a specific title that you want to buy but as soon as you look at the rack you forget completely what it was.

Will have a go at those as mp3s and see what's what. Thanks again.

[Millane]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
OK, thanks mate. yeah well i guess i did narrow it down to 4 out of 5 main albums:p and all i get is a thanks:mad: :D
yeah and his music just keeps on getting better and better as you listen to it, ill just list a few of the "big" songs off each album for you
ANTICHRIST SUPERSTAR
1. Irresponsible Hate Anthem live version
2. The Beautiful People
12. Antichrist Superstar (a classic manson song, you just have to scream REPENT! along with manson;) )
15. The Reflecting God (awesome guitars by Trent Reznor)
16. Man that you Fear (not really a main song but its one of his best quieter songs)

Mechanical Animals
2. The Dope Show (it'll ****ING BLOW YOUR MIND:p )
4. Rock is Dead (song at the end of the Matrix)
9. I dont like the drugs (but the drugs like me)-funky as they come
13. Last Day on Earth (another great quiet song)

Holy Wood
2. the Love Song (do YOU love your Guns, God and Govt?)
3. the Fight Song
4. Disposable Teens
10. The Nobodies (such a simple beat)
11. The Death Song (superior to 2&3)
also squeeze in Lamb of God, Coma Black, King Kill 33 and Count to 6 and Die...

The Golden Age of Grotesque
2. This is the new **** (second matrix)
3. mOBSCENE (and its so ****ing obscene)
4. Doll Dagga Buzz Buzz Ziggety Zag
6. the Golden Age of Grotesque (vastly different from all other manson, and still so good)
7. (s)AINT
actually if you find anything from Golden Age listen to it:D

[Lalaith]

Which Album do you like best?

I only have one, bought it in Ireland. Not sure which it is, though.

[Lalaith_Elf]

What would you say is his definitive/best album?

I would go with The Golden Age of Grotesque it's brilliant!:)

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
I would go with The Golden Age of Grotesque it's brilliant!:)
I wanted to have it so badly but ach - permanent lack of money - and I still don't have it.

[Lalaith_Elf]

I borrowed it off a mate for about 6months (much to her disgust) and then copied it - I never have enough money. But I strongly recomend it!

[Millane]

aha after months of speculation of what will be on Marilyn Manson's best of album i need not speculate anymore. The tracklisting i had down pat, and the dvd with all his filmclips is done (except theres no Tainted Love filmclip listed? and a filmclip called Autopsy is, which ive never heard of) and i had thought the name of the best of was going to be Songs of Golgotha, but it is actually Lest We Forget... and here is the cover art aswell
Cover Art - Lest we forget (http://images.interscope.com/9932/lestweforgetpost.jpg)
sorry i think its a bit to big to put here

[Lady Ravyn]

manson is awesome

ah, yes... i remember when i posted this as part of some tom-foolery with hector lol I actually hated manson then :eek:

i've pretty recently started listening to hids stuff and he's really awesome! so yes, millane, musical taste really does evolve for the better!
:D

my fav album thus far is holy wood

[Lotesse]

Marilyn Manson is a modern music genius artist, no doubt about that. Genius. Crazy creative. He sure shakes people up, doesn't he? Keeps the music scene interesting and edgy.

http://www.marilynmanson.com/

[Millane]

i've pretty recently started listening to hids stuff and he's really awesome! so yes, millane, musical taste really does evolve for the better!
:D i listened to most of his music to death a fair while ago... that said i watched the dope show video the other day, without a doubt one of the best film clips ever made...
Mechanical Animals is definately his best.
very much anticipating his new film Phantasmagoria: the visions of lewis carrol...