Evil Elves!

[hectorberlioz]

Evil elves! no, not really. Tolkien made the elf king of mirkwood in the hobbit have a soft spot for gems and he was acting quite irational torwards thorin, but in lotr all elves seem to be flawless, just wondering what you guys think about it.

p.s: Hobbit is my fav!

[Ornelírë Mistë]

Elves are not flawless. Look at Feanor, and Maeglin, and Eol, and I'm sure there are others. Actually, I think all Evles have some sort of flaw, just like humans. Look at the Kinslaying. I doubt Tolkien would create a flawless race.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rë Mistë
Elves are not flawless. Look at Feanor, and Maeglin, and Eol, and I'm sure there are others. Actually, I think all Evles have some sort of flaw, just like humans. Look at the Kinslaying. I doubt Tolkien would create a flawless race. Well-said, OrnelÃ*rë Mistë. I agree 100%.

[elixir]

Well, think about where those elves lived. Mirkwood was a pretty evil and horrible place at that time. Beside, elves seem to have something against dwarves... And yes, they're not flawless either, but that's what makes them interesting :)

[Anglorfin]

Wasn't there a very similar thread somewhere around here? Or is that just my mind playing tricks on me. Anyway I do sort of agree. In the Hobbit, the Elf King seemed uncharacteristically greedy for an Elf. His hate for Dwarves can be understood, but why all the lust? What would he have done with it all? Or was that too part of the lure of a dragon's treasure?

[hectorberlioz]

Dont worry guys, just thought it an interesting subject. yeah i found another thread almost just like this, sorry.

[Nimrodel_White_Lady]

I agree, the Elven King in the Hobbit was a bit greedy, but if you think about it, Tolkien devised The Hobbit even before The Silmarillion, and so it was his first chance to develop an Elven character. He probably thought it over, and then changed the Elves in his later works to be less greedy, but still, not perfect.

~Lessien Nimrodel

[legolialis]

Eleves are by far the most incredible species created by tolkien but any perfect species would be boring. I think it's good that he gave the elf king flaws. with power comes the ability to be corrupted just like in humans. Not all elves are greedy but I think that being in the kings position gave him power and maybe even elves can be overthrown by power which is why elrond didn't want to tak the ring because he might have wanted to use it or keep it. Just my thoughts

[RohirrimGuy]

Ugh, if Elves had no flaws I wouldn't read the Hobbit. That's what's good about the Hobbit is it shows everybody's flaws.

In LOTR, Elves are perfect..in most ways anyway.

[Bombadillo]

Yeah, I don't like to give reasons from the story why are the Mirkwood elves to evil. As a matter of fact, I don't think they're evil so much as preoccupied with all day parties. I guess they're irrisponsile more than anything.

Either way, I don't believe that Tolkien ever intended for questions like this to arise. He did wright the Hobbit before LotR, so he apparently hadn't decided yet that the elves should be perfect and sober.

[RohirrimGuy]

The Hobbit was meant to be a childrens book, and if the Elves weren;t irresponsible, then kids wouldn't relate!:)

[hectorberlioz]

Wow! i figured this thread had gone down long ago...
Of course no race should be perfect(least of all elves:p . just joking) I was realll wanting to point out to some of my 'elves are perfect' friends that elves are definitely not perfect. i showed the the hobbit and they got mad and said they did not count it as part of the lotr story.:mad:

[Gamigar]

i don't think that the mirkwood elves acted much differently to thorin and company than the lorien elves did to gimli.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Certainly the elves in LOTR seem less flawed then the Hobbit or Silmarillion elves. If third age elves have a flaw it might be not so much "evil" as insularity. That is essentially how Mirkwood and Lorien elves seem to react to not just dwarves, but hobbits and humans who enter. Perhaps related to their "fading." Rivendell was more outgoing, perhaps due to being near a main road, a home for Isildur's heirs and base of the rangers, and its head being halfelven.

And a strain of "greed" in elves might be seen in all three ages, for example
1---(Feanor and kids trying to get the silmarils against all rational considerations for success,
2---Celebrimbor forging the Three Rings and other rings,
3---and Thranduil "had a great love for jewels and riches, and it may have been this love that led him to excesses, especially with the Dwarves", the complete guide to Middle-earth.

[Maedhros]

I agree, the Elven King in the Hobbit was a bit greedy, but if you think about it, Tolkien devised The Hobbit even before The Silmarillion, and so it was his first chance to develop an Elven character. He probably thought it over, and then changed the Elves in his later works to be less greedy, but still, not perfect.
Nooperz. JRRT had already a great part of the legendarium at work, before he began working in the Hobbit. The elven king which is mentioned in the Hobbit by the narrator is King Thingol from the Tale of the Nauglafring (quarrel of dwarves and elves from ancient times), which was written well before the Hobbit.