More lyric scene in the books

[Fat middle]

My take is the meeting of Luthien and Beren. I really love re-reading it. What´s yours?

[Darth Tater]

I can't say I understand the topic, which is probably why no one responded.

[bmilder]

Heh :P What did you mean, Fat Middle? :)

[Fat middle]

uhh, i was fearing that... :) I wanted to say "most lyric scene..." but i wrote "more" and i couldn´t fix it (those are the two edits). I only wanted to know which scene is consider by y´all as touched by the highest levels of poetry. That scene that make you cry whether it be for its roamntic touch, for pure pity or only for the beauty ofthe words. The mixture of romantic elements and the beauty of the Nature is simply perfect. I read once and again this scene and it never disappoints me. It´s now clearer the topic? :)

[Eruve]

I don't know if this is the sort of thing you had in mind, or not, but this passage makes me cry every single time I read it. It's the beginning of the "Ruin of Doriath" chapter, where Hurin is released from Angband, tries to get into Gondolin, and finally meets Morwen again just before she dies. It's not romantic in the sense of Beren and Luthien, but it is imbued with such saddness and regret. Can you just imagine Hurin, having had to witness the disaster to his family, powerless to stop it, finally released from the torture, and friendless and mistrusted? Finally he gets back to his wife and she dies. As for nature, the description of Hurin standing on a rock before the stones that hide the way into Gondolin, with the sun setting and the wind hissing through the dry grass give me chills. It's so bleak and full of hopelessness.

[Darth Tater]

Ok, now I understand the question, but I'm not sure what the answer is for me yet. I'll think about it.

[Hernalt]

But did you mean literal 'lyrics' as in a favorite Tolkien song, or 'lyrical passages' as in an evocative stream of Tolkienesque description? I think you mean the latter, and for my personal most-evocative, I'd have to say.. Sil 273: "Turambar and Hunthor were well-nigh overcome by the heat and the stench, as they sought in haste for a way to come up at Glaurung; and Hunthor was slain by a great stone that was dislodged from on high by the passage of the Dragon, and smote him on the head and cast him into the river. So he ended, of the house of Haleth not the least valient. By standing forth for the 'special needs' Brandir, Hunthor chose his own doom, and was not entrapped by Turin's. He willingly, knowingly walked into the valley of the shadow of death, failed in his task through no lack of determination, and was awarded the fine, marbled epitaph that "He was not the least valient." Obviously he was not the star of the production, the performer, the show-stopper. But he gave his all, and went down in history. Harks me to A River Runs Through It, where the Scottish minister, the thrifty father gave a "Well done, son" only after he had finished his homework and made it right. So in bestowing such accolade on Hunthor, it was Tolkien projecting the kind of approval he might have for one of his own sons, and he was saying to that son, "You did well.." If anything gets me close to a Christian-religious tear-jerking feeling, where a divine entity looks down with a gleaming pride for our effort despite our error, it's the triumph of Hunthor.

[Fat middle]

Yeah, i was meaning that, but in my theasaurus both terms lyric and lyrical have the same meaning. :o BTW, great comments to Hunthor´s death. You throw new light to the passage. Eruve: yes the return of Hurin is for me the very "lyrical" summit of Turin´s story. That moment at the rock is really great! Question: Do y´all think as me, that the greater lyrical scenes are in Sil?

[Hernalt]

But that's because the Sil is a most often a remote narration, summarazing with heraldic and sometimes Shakespearean language what would in LOTR be delved into in you-are-there, present tense detail. The Sil is a marble epitaph recounting the heroic and accomplished deeds of long-dead heros, whereas LOTR is a game, already in progress.

[Eruve]

ITA hernalt. Well said!

[Elanor]

Frodo and Sam parting, Sam returning home alone.

[Darth Tater]

There's this one word that Tolkien uses in the Sil that is just so great: Unfriendship. I love that!!!

[Elanor]

Yes...I always thought this quote was hilarious: "And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends, and if they will not depart we shall afflict them in all ways that we can." (170) Just such a matter-of-fact statement of prejudice, antagonism, and intention to hurt. Sounds like the KKK.