Jane Austen

[sun-star]

I was surprised to see there isn't a thread dedicated to Jane Austen, because normally wherever you find well-read, intelligent people, you find Austen fans :)

So, what's your favourite novel and why (first person to say something other than Pride and Prejudice gets a prize... I mean, is very clever indeed)? Has anyone read her juvenalia? It's very funny :D

[IronParrot]

I've only read Pride and Prejudice, but I enjoyed it immensely.

There's just something about Austen's writing that's so warm and cozy.

[Hasty Ent]

I love Jane Austen, though it's been years since I read any of her books. The only one I own, by the way, is Northanger Abbey -- definitely my favorite. It's a glorious spoof of late 18th c. Gothic, complete with fainting heroines and a haunted medieval abbey!:D


does this mean I'm very clever? always wanted to be clever....;)

[Elvengirl]

Yes, I read Pride and Prejudice. Didn't Jane Austen also write Sense and Sensiblity? I didn't read that though.

[Shadowfax]

Yes, Jane Austen also wrote Sense and Sensibility.

[Laurus Nobilis]

I love Jane Austen! So far I've read Pride & Prejudice, Sense & Sensibility, and Masfield Park.

I liked Pride & Prejudice especially- I loved the irony in it. (And I also loved Darcy, of course!)

[Silpion]

I have read "Pride and Prejudice", "Sense and Sensibility", "Emma", and "Persuasion". I have yet to read "Mansfield Park" or "Northanger Abbey". My favorite is "Persuasion". The characters are mature but flawed people. Sometimes when I read it there was just sadness at the situation, but the pay-off at the end was worth it.

[markedel]

I read Emma for my English lit class. Quite good actually. A feel good book.

[azalea]

I'm a Jane Austen fan as well. I've read Pride and Prejudice at least twice, Emma, and Northanger Abbey. I own a nice hardcover of Sense and Sensibility, but I don't think I've read it yet (I've been reading a long time, so I sometimes forget if I've read something or not!:eek: Sometimes I'll start reading something I don't think I've read before, and I realize that I have). Emma is a work of genius, but sorry, I can't honestly say that I like it better than P&P, one of the best books ever written, IMO.:)

[cee2lee2]

Jane Austen is one of my favorite authors. A few years back I bought "The Complete Works" in paperback and I have several of the novels in hardback. I have a lovely little pocket-size hardback edition of Persuasion. Pride and Prejudice would be on my list of books to take to a desert island. :) I reread it at least once a year as well as Persuasion.

[LutraMage]

I've only ever read Pride and Prejudice but I really liked it and kept meaning to read other books by the author. It says something about the quality of her books that they are still read by people of all ages and from all over the world nearly 200 years after she wrote them (P&P was writen in 1813!)

Because she got to the heart of the characters (and human nature hasn't changed all that much for thousands of years), despite society being totally different, we can still recognise the power of her work.

So, which of her books should I read next? Any suggestions of which one and why from those who have read them all? :confused:

[Annabelle]

My favorite Jane Austen novel is "Sense and Sensibility". The story and characters are delightful. The story contains drama, but a lot of laughs as well. I think it is her best work!:)

So, there is my recommendation;)

[congressmn]

emma. that was my first austen book. i will read P&P very soon, if i can help it and if fortune's my way...i will read all the books by austen. all

[GrayMouser]

I love most of Jane Austen, but I HATE "Mansfield Park".

Fanny... totally insipid and a snob.

Mary Crawford ...Yeah! Glad she didn't end up with that dolt Edmund- he and Fanny deserve each other.

[Laurus Nobilis]

Glad she didn't end up with that dolt Edmund- he and Fanny deserve each other.

Couldn't agree more! I liked Masfield Park as a book because the plot was interesting, but the main characters were just- yawn. Which surprised me a lot, actually, since I loved Sense and Sensibility and [/i]Pride and Prejudice[/i].

[Percy Weasley]

Jane Austen is one of my favorite authors. Very few are able to create such biting commentary on social norms in such an innocuous manner, but she does it with such ease and brilliance that it certainly sets her apart from authors such as the Brontes.

I have read all of Austen's works, and I must say that my favorites are Pride and Prejudice and Mansfield Park. I have read several comments in this thread against Mansfield Park, but I appreciate it as it is likely one of the darker and least romantic books that Austen wrote.

Crawford, instead of being a quintessential Austen hero is a human being who could have lived, and who represents the flaws in each of us. Fanny is the same way - weak, naive, silly...

I think in Mansfield Park Austen delves further into the human psyche than she does in all of her other books combined.

Peace to all,
~Percy

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
Crawford, instead of being a quintessential Austen hero is a human being who could have lived, and who represents the flaws in each of us. Fanny is the same way - weak, naive, silly...

It's interesting that you say that, because I've always thought of Fanny as one of Austen's stronger heroines. She is undoubtedly naive (through enforced lack of experience in the world), but though her principles may seem odd and out-dated to us today, she does hold to them very firmly. Compared to Emma or Catherine in Northanger Abbey, or even Marianne Dashwood, Fanny is perceptive, mature and wise. Yet naive :)

Great name, btw :)

[Mercutio]

Can we revive the Jane Austen thread? I especially liked P & P and Emma; I have read them both numerous times (as with all her other books which are very good) and watched the A&E P&P with Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth at least twice. I've heard that "Jane Austen's Emma" is the best Emma movie but I have yet to watch it. Anybody care to discuss any of her books? Do a "everybody read this much of this book" and talk about it?

Mercutio

"In vain have I stuggled..."

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Can we revive the Jane Austen thread? I especially liked P & P and Emma; I have read them both numerous times (as with all her other books which are very good) and watched the A&E P&P with Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth at least twice. I've heard that "Jane Austen's Emma" is the best Emma movie but I have yet to watch it.

I love that adaptation of P&P and watch it regularly. I've seen two versions of Emma - one with Gwyneth Paltrow and one with Kate Beckinsale, and IMO the second was better.

[Mercutio]

I'm pretty sure the one I thought was better was with Kate Beckinsale. Knightley was a lot better in that one then in Paltrow's. Her's (I forgot who the actor was) was way to young.

[jellyfishannah]

I am sorry to say I have never read any Jane Austen. (too bad, 'cause I really wanted to be one of those clever, well-read people:p)

I have, however watched a lot of the movies. Mansfield Park, Northanger Abbey, Emma(an older version), and Sense and Sensibility (which I really enjoyed)

I do plan on reading one of those in the near future but....You don't know how long the list of 'books I must read' is!!!

[cee2lee2]

But these are worth putting at the top of that list! :D :cool:

[dawningoftime]

I love Jane Austen. I've read P&P, Sense and Sensability, Emma, and Mansfield Park. I have to admit my favorite book is Pride and Prejudice if for nothing else the cat fight between Lady Catharine and Elizabeth.

[Bilbo]

There are a many great people who are both intellectual and hate Jane Austin. The Big Read has just proven that (I'm in the favourite book!). Another point to make is that many people who are intellectual can find Jane Austin books boring (like Shakespeare).

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Bilbo
There are a many great people who are both intellectual and hate Jane Austin. The Big Read has just proven that (I'm in the favourite book!).

Ah, but Pride and Prejudice is second on the list behind LOTR - so what does that prove? :D

[Mercutio]

Today is Jane Austen's Birthday.


How could someone be intellectual and not like Austen? :eek:

[dawningoftime]

I saw on TheOneRing.net that Pride and Prejudice came in second to LoTR for the UK's Big Read

[Lótiel]

Austen is one of my favourite authors. I´ve read P&P, Sense&sensibility, persuasions and Emma. I realy want to read the rest of her books, but right now I live in a place where it´s impossible to get hold of english books.

I have the BBC P&P series at home, and I watch it every now and then. I absolutly adore Mr. Darcy, he´s so classy and rude.

Btw, did you know that Bridget Jones`Diary is loosly based on P&P?

[dawningoftime]

yeah and the movie CLUELESS is loosely based on Emma

[Linaewen]

Last night and today I've been engaged in a reading marathon, and I've finished off Pride and Prejudice. It was extremely engaging; I was incapable of putting it down (even in the restaurant). I take my not being able to stand some of the characters (Mrs Bennet, Lydia, Mr Collins) as a sign of it being well written.

Maybe we could have our Austen discussion now, eh, Zales? (Azalea). :D

[dawningoftime]

I just got done reading this book on the life and times of Jane Austen and apparently she told her family what happpened to Kitty and Mary. Mary married a clerk in Meryton and was considered by the town the most accomplished lady. Kitty married a clergyman near Pemberly. (just in case anyone was interested).

[sun-star]

And didn't she say that Jane and Bingley went to live near Pemberly too? I seem to remember something about that. I think it's great that she thought so much about her characters after she was done writing about them (almost Tolkien-esque, in fact :)).

What was the name of the book you were reading? I'm always on the look-out for more books about Austen.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by sun-star
And didn't she say that Jane and Bingley went to live near Pemberly too? I seem to remember something about that. I think it's great that she thought so much about her characters after she was done writing about them (almost Tolkien-esque, in fact :)).
Yes, the situation apparently made both Jane and Eliza happier, because not only were they happily married, but they were very close to each other.

I'm glad we find out what happened to the. IMHO, there wasn't that much closure for the book.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Last night and today I've been engaged in a reading marathon, and I've finished off Pride and Prejudice. It was extremely engaging; I was incapable of putting it down (even in the restaurant). I take my not being able to stand some of the characters (Mrs Bennet, Lydia, Mr Collins) as a sign of it being well written.

Maybe we could have our Austen discussion now, eh, Zales? (Azalea). :D

Sure!:) What subject would you like to discuss first about one of the best books ever written? (Note: my posting may be a little spotty, but I'll keep replying even if it takes a few days! Plus it looks like we have enough other P&P fans to keep the discussion flowing nicely:) ).

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by azalea
Sure!:) What subject would you like to discuss first about one of the best books ever written? (Note: my posting may be a little spotty, but I'll keep replying even if it takes a few days! Plus it looks like we have enough other P&P fans to keep the discussion flowing nicely:) ).

What about ...marriage? ;)

I don't know, I'd have to read some study notes on it, and pick some discussion points. One thing I'm not quite clear on at this point in time (I have some ideas but I'm not sure how reasonable they are), is why everyone was so eager for Lydia and Wickham to marry? (Other than Mrs Bennet, I mean).

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Linaewen
One thing I'm not quite clear on at this point in time (I have some ideas but I'm not sure how reasonable they are), is why everyone was so eager for Lydia and Wickham to marry? (Other than Mrs Bennet, I mean).

It's really for the sake of Lydia's reputation. Their elopement was a terrible scandal, and a marriage was the best way to hush it up. If they hadn't got married at all, Lydia would have been ruined and no other man would have thought of marrying her because she had already lived with a man outside marriage (and we can guess what they were doing while they were missing... ;)). Her reputation would have been lost. But if they got married, at least their children would be legimate and they could enter society in another place which didn't know about the elopement.

You really have to understand the 19th century mindset, which can be quite hard for us today.

[dawningoftime]

England, at that time, was also big on marrying for material reasons. If Lydia had not married Wickham in the hasty manner that she did, the rest of the sisters could forget about marrying well. As it was Lady Cathrarine wasn't too pleased with Elizabeth, for amoung other things, the connection with Lydia was going to be a disgrace. Any misconduct on the part of one family member reflected the conduct of the whole family.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by sun-star
It's really for the sake of Lydia's reputation. Their elopement was a terrible scandal, and a marriage was the best way to hush it up. If they hadn't got married at all, Lydia would have been ruined and no other man would have thought of marrying her because she had already lived with a man outside marriage (and we can guess what they were doing while they were missing... ;)). Her reputation would have been lost. But if they got married, at least their children would be legimate and they could enter society in another place which didn't know about the elopement.

You really have to understand the 19th century mindset, which can be quite hard for us today.
Thanks. I thought so, but then I was thinking that maybe her actually running off and eloping would be even more scandalous.

I seem to have forgotten the nature of Wickham's feelings for Lydia.

[azalea]

Well, that's what the scandal was -- that she had disappeared from the house where she was staying with respectable people, off with George Wickham, and thereby was an unmarried young woman, UNCHAPERONED (:eek: ) with a young man! The fact that she was not with a chaperone, regardless of whether or not she actually did consumate the relationship outside of marital bonds (which I think she did, but how would anyone really know unless she told them), would lead everyone to speculate that she had, because what other reason would there be for them to run off together as a not-yet-married couple? So tongues would wag, and, while the lower classes weren't subject to the same kind of censure (although it still wasn't an accepted practice, and an unwed mother would indeed be censured), a young woman of "society" must be shunned by that "society" if she has a marred reputation. (It was bad enough that her parents had allowed ALL their daughters to be "out" before the oldest had married. :eek: ;) ) So of course if they came back married, tongues would still wag (as they did), but no one could say "oh, she wasn't married before" since they weren't there, plus the fact that although he hadn't intended to marry her (which makes what Darcy did all the more important and romantic), she did come back as a married woman, which made her at least respectable enough for the other girls not to be "marred" by association.

[Lótiel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
I seem to have forgotten the nature of Wickham's feelings for Lydia. There weren´t any true feelings from Wickhams side. The book says that he still hoped on marrying a girl with fortune, and hints that Lydia was more "spare-time activity". aND his friend Denny said that Wickham never intended to marry her.

Ah, Mr Darcy! I just love him! And Colin Firth playing him too! Anyone who has seen the TV-series? Have the DVD at home, love it!

Very interesting that Kitty and especially Mary got married, I always wondered what happened to them. Everytime I read the book I hope that Mary and Mr. Collins could get together, think they would match.

Mrs. Bennet, Lydia and Mr Collins are absolutely awful, can´t stand them. But as yo said Linaewen if they weren´t that well written, they wouldn´t get to me this bad, so it´s probably just a sign of quality.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Lótiel


Ah, Mr Darcy! I just love him! And Colin Firth playing him too! Anyone who has seen the TV-series? Have the DVD at home, love it!



Of course! It was so well done, practically perfect! I swoon every time I see Mr. Darcy walking up to Pemberly all wet and Eliza is standing there...ahh! Colin Firth has mentioned that it has been hard to go on to other things because of his success playing Darcy (I guess when you play a role so well, people have a hard time appreciating you in other roles, or something like that).

[Linaewen]

What version may you be talking of? Or is there only one version, unlike Jane Eyre?

Unfortunately, I had already read a synopsis of the book before I read it 'properly' (the first time I only read a few chapters, and didn't like it), so I kind of knew what would happen. Plus someone also posted in the 'What are you reading now?' thread about how they loved Darcy. *Pointed look* ;)

For anyone who's read Jane Eyre, how similar do you think Rochester from JE and Darcy are? They are both enigmatic and ambiguous, but in the end one finds out their true nature and how really lovely they are; through their actions etc. Both also had a skeleton in the closet, which distresses their beloved.

Oh, and that you Zales & Lótiel for your answers. Very insightful and appreciated! :)

[Lótiel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
What version may you be talking of? Or is there only one version, unlike Jane Eyre?
It´s a BBC 6 episode 5 hours long serie with Colin Firth(Bridget Jones´Diary) and Jennifer Ehle. I couldn´t get it in Norway, but I bought it when I visited Glasgow a year ago. Me and some of my friends have P&P evenings quite often. We see the whole film(5 hours!) eat a lot of food, snacks and chocolate, perfect evenings.

[Falagar]

I think I'm going to read 'Pride and Prejustice', just because of this thread. :)


...though I started "The History of Norway" not long ago, 5 long books, so it may take some time before I get to it. ;)

[dawningoftime]

One thing that I had always wondered was why Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst made such a big deal out of Elizabeth's petticoat being dirty when she went to see Jane. A few weeks ago I was reading in the Jane Austen Journal that to have cleanliness literally was next to godliness.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by dawningoftime
One thing that I had always wondered was why Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst made such a big deal out of Elizabeth's petticoat being dirty when she went to see Jane. A few weeks ago I was reading in the Jane Austen Journal that to have cleanliness literally was next to godliness.

And it suggested that she didn't care about looking "respectable" to meet them, which would have been an insult to their pride. They probably expected her to take ages getting ready, worrying about being good enough to go to their grand house - and she turns up not at all interested in anything but Jane.

The BBC version is so good - maybe the best adaptation of any classic novel ever :D. Colin Firth gets all the credit, but I thought Jennifer Ehle was underrated - she got the spirit of Lizzy just right, for me.

[Lótiel]

Originally posted by Falagar
I think I'm going to read 'Pride and Prejustice', just because of this thread. :)


...though I started "The History of Norway" not long ago, 5 long books, so it may take some time before I get to it. ;) You should! It´s great, but quite a girlnovel. You can learn quite a lot about what girls like though. (girls like Mr.Darcy...)

"The History of Norway" is great, it´s the one by Karsten Alnaes(or whatever he´s called)? I read a couple of the books to prepare for history in 2. and 3. grade of videregaaende(high school).

[Linaewen]

I don't think Falagar would have a problem with 'girl novels'. :D
Originally posted by dawningoftime
One thing that I had always wondered was why Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst made such a big deal out of Elizabeth's petticoat being dirty when she went to see Jane. A few weeks ago I was reading in the Jane Austen Journal that to have cleanliness literally was next to godliness.
That's odd, because I always wondered about the opposite. I thought that perhaps they didn't make as much fuss as I expected. I mean, her clothes were in a pretty sad state when she saw them, to them indicating her lack of pride in her appearance, and respect to them as their guests I suppose.

[Lalaith_Elf]

i've only read pride and prejudice at the moment but i loved it..... which is suprising for me

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Lótiel
You should! It´s great, but quite a girlnovel. You can learn quite a lot about what girls like though. (girls like Mr.Darcy...)

"The History of Norway" is great, it´s the one by Karsten Alnaes(or whatever he´s called)? I read a couple of the books to prepare for history in 2. and 3. grade of videregaaende(high school).
That's what I'm doing now, reading it to prepare myself for 2nd class in videregående (isn't that the same as college though? Depends on the country I guess).
Originally posted by Linaewen
I don't think Falagar would have a problem with 'girl novels'. :D
You're hinting at something? :mad: ;)

Actually found Pride and Prejustice, Sense and Sensibility and Enigma in my book-case today, while looking for Snorre's Heimskringla/Kongesagaer (which I didn't find :rolleyes: ).

[Lótiel]

Originally posted by Falagar
That's what I'm doing now, reading it to prepare myself for 2nd class in videregående (isn't that the same as college though? Depends on the country I guess).
It´s a great idea to prepare yourself for that course, you get so much more out of it if you do. I really loved history in 2nd 3rd grade and was fortunatly very lucky with my teachers. I guess videregaaende is sort of a mix between high school and college, perhaps more like college. But when I think of my friends who spent a year in USA they all went to the last year of high school instead og the norwegian 2nd grade.

[dawningoftime]

Originally posted by sun-star

What was the name of the book you were reading? I'm always on the look-out for more books about Austen.

The Name of the book is Jane Austen: The World of her Novels by Deirdre Le Faye

[Mercutio]

If you like Austen and the BBC Pride and Prejudice (with Colin Firth), you'll love the book "The Making of Pride and Prejudice." It talks about filming, sites, actors, interviews, costuming, writin the script, etc.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Mercutio
If you like Austen and the BBC Pride and Prejudice (with Colin Firth), you'll love the book "The Making of Pride and Prejudice." It talks about filming, sites, actors, interviews, costuming, writin the script, etc.

There's a similar one for the BBC adaptation of Emma, written by the same people. I've got both books, and one of them is signed by the scriptwriters or producers or something :D

[Mercutio]

Cool. Which Emma version do you guys like? The one with Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam or the BBC one with Kate Beckinsale and Mark Strong.

Looking from the books, I like the BBC one better.

[dawningoftime]

I like both of them. If you combined both of them you'd have the perfect movie. The BBC is more accurate to the book, but the Gwenyth Paltrow version has the spirit.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by dawningoftime
I like both of them. If you combined both of them you'd have the perfect movie.

I agree. The BBC one was a little odd at times, but I thought Kate Beckinsale was a better Emma than Gwyneth Paltrow.

Has anyone seen the black and white version of Pride and Prejudice (from the 1940s, I think)? It's a while since I saw it but if I remember correctly they changed the story a lot - now that's a brave film-maker!

[dawningoftime]

oh my word, I saw that. That was really bad. Made it look as if Lady Cathrine actually approved of Lizzy, but was arguing with here just so she could see if Lizzy would make a suitable wife.

[Mercutio]

I saw that version. It was good, I think Mr. Knightley was the perfect mix of Northam's version (light and friendly) and Strong's (brooding, confused about his feelings). But he seemed to old for the part!

[BeardofPants]

Okay, so I've started reading P & P, and I'm loving it! :D It took me a while to get into it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. I just got up to the bit where Lizzy turns down Darcy's marriage proposal. Classic stuff! :D Mrs. Bennet, my god, how can that idiot have managed to birth someone so ... sensible... like Lizzy. I hate her! :mad:

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Okay, so I've started reading P & P, and I'm loving it! :D It took me a while to get into it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. I just got up to the bit where Lizzy turns down Darcy's marriage proposal. Classic stuff! :D Mrs. Bennet, my god, how can that idiot have managed to birth someone so ... sensible... like Lizzy. I hate her! :mad:

Yes. In the BBC mini-series you just think she's a stupid fool! And aren't you so annoyed that Lizzy turned down the proposal!



Austenites (as you all should be called :D); another good period movie (its actually more around the turn of the century, 1900), is "A Room with a View," based on the short story by...Forester.

And don't forget to visit the Entmoot of Austen on the web-- www.pemberley.com
Its a great messageboard, info on everything possible, etc.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Yes. In the BBC mini-series you just think she's a stupid fool! And aren't you so annoyed that Lizzy turned down the proposal!

No, because I didn't particularly like his character (don't hurt me!:eek: ), but now that I've progressed well into vol III, I can see the various attractions to Mr. Darcy, and so I want to kick Lizzy for turning him down! :mad:

[Rían]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Okay, so I've started reading P & P, and I'm loving it! :D It took me a while to get into it, but I'm glad I stuck with it. I just got up to the bit where Lizzy turns down Darcy's marriage proposal. Classic stuff! :D
Great scene!

I'm glad you're liking it - it just gets better, IMO, as it goes on.

[BeardofPants]

I finished it last night. I really enjoyed it, but the ending was a bit of a let down for me. It felt a bit hurried and weak. Of course, I WAS reading it whilst waiting for take-aways, so that might've jinxed it somewhat. :rolleyes: :( Darcy though, what a babe! :D

[Rían]

Yeah! *sighs*

I love the part where it says (roughly) Elizabeth gloried in every sensible sentence of her aunt and uncle - poor thing! she was so embarassed by her family, and so glad to have at least 2 relatives she could be proud of!

I love the proposal part, too - so humble yet honest and straightforward and passionate by Darcy - "You are too generous to trifle with me. If your feelings are still what they were last April, tell me so at once. My affections and wishes are unchanged, but one word from you will silence me on this subject forever." And how Austen doesn't give Lizzy's actual answer. And how Darcy's "heart-felt delight" was shown on his face, but Lizzy wasn't able to look at him (but WE, the readers, got that glimpse!)

Was it in this book where it said something about someone not speaking much, but something like "the 5 parts of speech shone out from his eyes, and she could combine them at her ease"? I like that idea.

[Mercutio]

Another P&P is coming out. With Keira Knightley as Lizzy and some Scottish actor nobody heard of as Darcy. Imagine Darcy saying "She's tolerable, but not handsome enough to tempt me" about Keira! Inconceivable! And plus, the '95 or whatever version with Firth and Ehle was amazing. It was, is, and will always be the definitive P&P.

[sun-star]

Yes, I don't know why anyone should think another adaptation is necessary, for the moment at least. I do see the advantage of casting a slighter younger Lizzy (she is meant to be only 21) but I thought Jennifer Ehle was excellent, and Keira Knightley's really not of the same standard. I'm interested by the idea of Matthew MacFayden as Darcy - he's a talented actor, but I don't think he'll have the same... er... impact as Colin Firth did on the female audience :D

However, there was talk at one point of casting Orlando Bloom as Darcy :eek: so maybe we should be grateful for small mercies...

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by sun-star

However, there was talk at one point of casting Orlando Bloom as Darcy :eek: so maybe we should be grateful for small mercies...

*phew* :D

[BeardofPants]

I'm now reading Northanger Abbey, and I have to say that I'm enjoying it *more* than P & P. I'm just loving it so much, and some of Catherine's comments are just hysterically funny. :D I'm up to just past vol I, and already, Isabella is driving me nuts, and as for her stupid brother.... Wow, I guess it really is a testament to Austen, that I find some of her characters so despicable! (to echo what a previous poster said).

[Rían]

Be sure to read Sense & Sensibility, too :)

[Linaewen]

If you like Austen and the BBC Pride and Prejudice (with Colin Firth), you'll love the book "The Making of Pride and Prejudice." It talks about filming, sites, actors, interviews, costuming, writin the script, etc.
Part I of that is on tonight, yay. Colin Firth is fine as Darcy, but I couldn't stand Alan Rickman as Col. Christopher Brandon in Sense & Sensibility. I just wasn't able to get the image of Snape out of my head...

[BeardofPants]

Be sure to read Sense & Sensibility, too :)
I do plan on reading it at a later stage, but it will have to wait a bit until I've caught up on my reading. :) (too little time!)

[Mercutio]

Part I of that is on tonight, yay. Colin Firth is fine as Darcy, but I couldn't stand Alan Rickman as Col. Christopher Brandon in Sense & Sensibility. I just wasn't able to get the image of Snape out of my head...

Funny. It had the opposite effect on me. Whenever I see Snape I can't get Colonel Brandon out of my head!

[Elanor the Fair]

Funny. It had the opposite effect on me. Whenever I see Snape I can't get Colonel Brandon out of my head!

I suppose it depends on what you saw first - Harry Potter or Sense and Sensibility.

[Mercutio]

I'm not actually sure... I think Harry Potter I, however then I watched S&S a few times so it was stuck in my head more.

[Linaewen]

I have one more chapter left of 'Emma' to read. You were right BoP and RÃ*an, it does get better. The majority of it was slow-moving though, IMO. I just wished that Miss Bates or Mrs Elton or Frank Churchill would shut up sometimes- pages and pages of their rambling! But it's still great.

A question. In both P&P and Emma, main characters are called Jane. Does Austen give any other characters her name, and why does she use it? I just find it interesting that she'd name characters Jane, because I know if I wrote something, I wouldn't use my name. Or was Jane just a particularly popular name then, and she wanted to reflect that?

[Lief Erikson]

I'm now reading Northanger Abbey, and I have to say that I'm enjoying it *more* than P & P. I'm just loving it so much, and some of Catherine's comments are just hysterically funny. :D I'm up to just past vol I, and already, Isabella is driving me nuts, and as for her stupid brother.... Wow, I guess it really is a testament to Austen, that I find some of her characters so despicable! (to echo what a previous poster said).
I've seen the movies to many of Jane Austen's books. Northanger Abbey happens to be the only one I've actually read, but it was excellent! I vastly enjoyed some of those parts with Catherine in the Abbey. Blundering around in the dark for ages to open that cabinet, for example :D. Or have you gotten that far? Sorry, won't give any more spoilers, but that book was really hilarious :D.

[BeardofPants]

Oh, I finished it ages ago. I've since read Emma, and Persuasion is on my reading list shortly, once I finish Beowulf. :) (Maybe, it's a toss-up between P and Seven Pillars of Wisdom by TE Lawrence.)

[BeardofPants]

I have one more chapter left of 'Emma' to read. You were right BoP and RÃ*an, it does get better. The majority of it was slow-moving though, IMO. I just wished that Miss Bates or Mrs Elton or Frank Churchill would shut up sometimes- pages and pages of their rambling! But it's still great.
I actually enjoyed Miss Bates ramblings... they were funny. As for Mrs Elton.... man, I know she kinda got her comeuppance with Emma marrying so much better than HER, but it was a little too subtle for me - I wanted her to be beaten with sharp pointy sticks! :mad: Oh well.... Again, Jane Austen writes remarkably horrid characters... all part of the charm, I guess.

[hectorberlioz]

Another P&P is coming out. With Keira Knightley as Lizzy and some Scottish actor nobody heard of as Darcy. Imagine Darcy saying "She's tolerable, but not handsome enough to tempt me" about Keira! Inconceivable! And plus, the '95 or whatever version with Firth and Ehle was amazing. It was, is, and will always be the definitive P&P.
:eek: Bach! No! Keira Knightly? thats like asking John Goodman to play Don Quixote!

[Mercutio]

This is from From How to Become Ridiculously Well-Read in One Evening, compiled by E. O. Parrott (Viking, Penguin Books, 1985). It's a collection of spoofs (about 1 page apiece, attempting to cleverly summarize famous works of literature). Ask me for a book and I'll see if it's in there (but they take a while to type up.) They range from letters to poems to sonnets to newspaper headlines to conversations.

Pride and Prejudice, by Mary Holtby

``Marry well'', is Bennet tenet: Bingley singly must remain
Since classy Darcy (Lizzy-dizzy) thinks he's far too good for Jane.
Rummy mummy, jaunty aunty, these would drag both gallants down --
Plus the younger siblings' dribblings over officers in town.
See the specious Wickham trick 'em with his tales of birthright gloom,
See how hideous Lydia's ruin looms before she gets her groom;
Glassy Darcy saves the bacon, shaken out of former pride:
Is he Lizzy's destined love, to shove her prejudice aside?
Has she clout to flout that matron, patroness of priestly coz
(He whose ludicrous proposing Rosings rules -- like all he does)?
Darcy oughter court her daughter, destined his through two decades...

``Mulish, foolish girl, remember Pemberley's polluted shades!''
Dare she share his great estate, or can't Aunt Catherine be defied?
Yes! and ere the bells ring jingly, Bingley too shall claim his bride.

Emma, by Joyce Johnson

Miss Bates has a visitor:

'My dear Mrs Cole, how very kind -- yes, quite well, I thank you -- do pray take a seat. We have such news! Have you heard -- No? Well, I think it is all a secret, so perhaps I should not say but no one had any idea -- except Jane and Mr Churchill, of course, and all the time we thought he was only calling about my mother's spectacles. Dear Jane is much better already -- we are so thankful. Do oblige us by taking some refreshment -- one of Mr Knightley's baked apples -- some cake? Miss Woodhouse called yesterday and was so good as to taste a small slice and pronounce it delicious -- such kindness. She is now out with Jane -- she takes the news extremely well, considering -- no sign of disappointment -- Box Hill, yes, delightful -- but I am afraid my silly chatter sometimes -- however, Mr Churchill did seem so very attentive -- but then we are all so fond of the excellent Miss Woodhouse -- but to think all this time -- one can hardly credit -- it was poor Mrs Churchill dying, you know, that let it all out. We have surprises indeed in Highbury, do we not, Mrs Cole? First, Mr Elton suddenly brings back a bride -- charming -- but some thought he showed a marked preference for Miss Smith, some thought for another -- I never notice such things -- and now on top of Jane being engaged to Mr Churchill we hear Miss Smith is to marry the good Mr Martin of Abbey Mill Farm -- oh, must you be going? So sorry you will not take a baked apple, one of Mr Knightley's -- he will be marrying next, I should not be surprised -- so much talk of marrying going on -- and there's our dear Miss Woodhouse -- what could be more suitable?'

[sun-star]

LOL :D I've spent hours in bookshops reading that book (since I'm too stingy to buy the thing).

I like the bit:

"classy Darcy (Lizzy-dizzy)"

as long as you don't have a Northern accent of course.

[Khamûl]

I've just finished Pride and Prejudice and despite my expectations, I actually liked it. I didn't expect to like a book that basically consisted of people standing around talking. But much to my surprise, I liked it except for the fact that it was slow reading for me. I guess all the intrigue and drama kept me interested (as well as all the idiots that abound in that book).

[Mercutio]

I've just finished Pride and Prejudice and despite my expectations, I actually liked it. I didn't expect to like a book that basically consisted of people standing around talking. But much to my surprise, I liked it except for the fact that it was slow reading for me. I guess all the intrigue and drama kept me interested (as well as all the idiots that abound in that book).

*cough Mr. Collins cough*

:D

Have you read Persuasion? Often times that is the best intro for a guy to reading Austen.

[BeardofPants]

Ugh, Mr. Collins, indeed. I can still hear Mrs. Bennet's shrill voice crying out for Mr. Collins from the beeb miniseries.... ::shudder::

[Rían]

Oh, "Persuasion" is great, but in a way, it's even less action than P&P, IMO. It's a lot of what's going on in what's-her-name's head.

*goes to find the book to find out what's-her-name's name*

Aaaack! It's GONE! It's GONE!! And Northanger Abbey is gone too!!!!

Who did I loan them to?!?! Oh, woe is me!!! Rats!!

*sigh* It must have been my sister-in-law - I'll call her tomorrow.

"Northanger Abbey" is more lively - really funny! And Henry is a great character, so a guy might identify with that book more.

[Khamûl]

Have you read Persuasion? Often times that is the best intro for a guy to reading Austen.
No, I haven't. Pride and Prejudice was my first experience with Jane Austen. Because of all the talk here, I'm tempted to give Northanger Abbey a try when I get some free time.

[Mercutio]

Oh, "Persuasion" is great, but in a way, it's even less action than P&P, IMO. It's a lot of what's going on in what's-her-name's head.

*goes to find the book to find out what's-her-name's name*

Anne?

[BeardofPants]

No, I haven't. Pride and Prejudice was my first experience with Jane Austen. Because of all the talk here, I'm tempted to give Northanger Abbey a try when I get some free time.

Northanger Abbey Rocks!!! And make sure you read Emma as well. I love Emma.


Rian, the main protagonist is Anne.

[Rían]

ANNE!! *smacks brain and re-boots it*

Thanks :D

Yeah, Northanger Abbey just had me in stitches! Henry is really funny.

Emma is great, and I thought the movie with Gweneth Paltrow was a v. good adaptation. Have you guys seen it?

[Mercutio]

Yes...I like it a lot. However, if I was a die-hard Janeite, I'd go for the Beckinsale version--better matches Austen's original. And I'm not sure if I'm that die-hard, since I enjoyed the recent Mansfield Park movie (there were lots of liberties taken with that...as a movie it stood well by itself, as Austen, not so much).

[sun-star]

Pride and Prejudice voted most romantic novel of all time (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4256613.stm)

They're screening the TV adaptation in the common room here tomorrow, for all us sad people who can't get dates (or who prefer Austen to Valentine's Day :D)

[Minielin]

They're screening the TV adaptation in the common room here tomorrow, for all us sad people who can't get dates (or who prefer Austen to Valentine's Day :D) If that's the TV adaptation with Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth, I'd prefer it to most Valentine's Days myself. That was such a good adaptation. I loved their casting (especially of the mother and Mr. Collins)!

[dawningoftime]

When my boyfriend dumped me a couple of weeks ago. My mum attempted to console my by saying I could call him Mr. Elton.

[Mercutio]

So the new P&P comes out in Sepember at the Toronto Film Festival and then the UK...The U.S. doesn't get it until November. And then it starts only in select theaters (NY & LA).

[Mercutio]

So have any of our UK-ians gone to see the new P&P?

[sun-star]

It's not on general release yet. I'm planning to go on Thursday...

[Elvellyn]

Can anyone tell me why, in P&P, it says --------shire all the time instead of giving a name?

[Mercutio]

I've borrowed this from a wonderful Austen site everyone must visit: www.pemberley.com


More or less, ;-) Written by Caroline in response to -------shire? by Diane Catherine

] I always assumed that it was because if she used a real place name, readers living there would say, "This author obviously knows nothing about this place. What a stupid book!" But I would like a more definitive answer if there is one. Thanks!

That's one reason why they did it. A development of this was that if they used real places, or real regiments, or what looked like real places and real regiments, then people could say "Well, the Colonel of that regiment wasn't callled xxxxxx, or the Colonel of that regiment didn't do that/wasn't the fool you make him out to be/couldn't possibly have given that order!" Authors would be opening themselves up to accusations of libel, if not stupidity.

It's also a fall-out from a literary convention of the time when many books and pamphlets were written criticising the government of the day, or important figures, by using false names. Defoes' Gullivers Travels is possibly the best known of the earlier ones. Since the reporting of Parliamentary discussions was banned until about 1808, it had to be reported in newspapers under false names (and Samuel Johnson first did it by reporting the activities of the people of Lilliput!). Some rather scurrilous stories were also printed which were thinly veiled parodies or criticisms of important figures.

So when Jane Austen wrote the _________shire regiment, or the Earl of _________, she was a)avoiding the pitfall of being accused of inaccuracy and b) avoiding the pitfall of being accused of criticism of some important political figures.

And just for the record, there realy was a militia regiment that went to Hertfordshire and then camped for the summer at Brighton. It was the Derbyshire Milita.........

Now the Bronte sisters followed in this tradition, although I really don't know if they were as worried about political consequences as JA was. Jane Eyre is fairly obviously set in Northern Yorkshire and Durham, (The reference to Gateshead, a real place gives it away.) But Lowood Schooll may wel be based on a real place, in which case Charlotte was playing safe by not giving any more deatil about its location than she absolutely needed to.

[sun-star]

I think there's also a (c), which is that P&P is fairly obviously set in a neighbourhood similar to Austen's own home, and even while her authorship was secret she wouldn't have wanted to be accused of depicting real people she knew who lived there. Imagine local gossip saying you were the original of Mrs Bennett! When her novels are set further afield in counties she had less connection with, she doesn't avoid naming them outright (P&P says Rosings is in Kent, Mansfield Park opens by saying that the house is in Northamptonshire and in Persuasion Kellynch Hall is said to be in Somerset). Cities or large towns are usually named directly e.g. London, Bath, Lyme Regis etc.

[Mercutio]

Yes. Austen's first few books published were written "By a Lady."

"Sense and Sensibility" was credited "From the author of Pride and Prejudice."...or vice versa (?). It was a little later when people really started guessing her authorship and her brother Henry started publicizing (readily admitting that his sister wrote such witty and popular novels).

^that kind of got off track :p

[sun-star]

I saw the new P&P film yesterday. I'll put my thoughts in spoilers because, even though I think we all know the plot ;) some of you might not want the details spoiled.

The first thing to say is, I think the experience of watching this film is completely changed by whether you've seen the BBC adaptation or not. I've seen it more times than I can count, I can quote lots of it by heart, and I don't really think it can be improved in essentials. For me it is the definitive version. So in watching this film I couldn't help comparing the two at almost every moment, which meant I didn't approach it in a wholly unbiased state of mind - it had a lot to prove to me so as not to seem like an attempt to cash in on a popular book by hiring some cute young movie stars. That's certainly not what this is - but neither is it really Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

Unlike the BBC version, which IIRC was six hours long, this film only has two hours to get through the whole plot. They fit the important things in well - mostly sacrificing minor characters (Sir William Lucas, Mrs Phillips, the Hursts etc.) and reducing Darcy's letter of backstory to a few sentences. Not much is wanting in plot terms. But in character, a lot of depth seemed lost to me, especially in the development of Darcy and Elizabeth's feelings towards each other - especially her transition from amused dislike, to hatred, to respect and then love. The real problem was Keira Knightley - she just can't carry off Lizzy's intelligence and wit, or convincingly suggest the growth she experiences when she learns her prejudices can be wrong. P&P is not just a light romantic comedy, as some people claim - it also concerns questions of self-deception and a firm core of moral judgement (I recommend C.S. Lewis' essay on the subject). This film lacks all of that and doesn't convey why something like Lydia's elopement is morally shameful as well as socially embarassing. Darcy's decency to his tenants isn't mentioned, so his essential goodness (such an important thing for Lizzy to discover at Pemberly!) just isn't there.

I really can't decide about Matthew Macfadyen as Darcy. I like him as an actor, and he's good-looking enough if that's what matters, but it's difficult to judge someone's awkwardness in playing a character who is meant to be awkward all the time :D I think he was good. But I don't know.

The film certainly looks nice. It's Romantic (with a capital R) - lots of pouring rain, full moons, dramatic piano music, and a proposal scene which would be more suited to Wuthering Heights. The actors playing Jane, Charlotte Lucas, Mrs Bennet and Mr Collins, and Judi Dench as Lady Catherine, were all sufficiently different enough to the other adaptation to be interesting. Unfortunately, Bingley is portrayed as rather an idiot, a kind of Hooray Henry, and Miss Bingley isn't very haughty. Mr Bennet isn't the clever, cynical man of the books (and seemed to me to be struggling with his accent). Georgiana Darcy isn't shy at all, and Wickham is an Orlando Bloom looklike (seriously!), weak rather than deceitful.

I liked the ending - no sickly double wedding, it just finishes with Mr Bennet giving his consent. As I said, the second proposal scene seems to have come in from a different film, and I don't like Heathcliff!Darcy striding across the meadows, but the first proposal isn't too bad. The meeting at Pemberly is much better than the BBC's wet shirt take on it, with a nice scene between Darcy and Georgiana while Lizzy is spying on them.

So, in conclusion, very enjoyable, with Keira Knightley the worst thing about it. She seemed to be doing a Jennifer Ehle impression some of the time, but that wasn't enough to save her acting :D

[Mercutio]

Interesting, sun-star.

I recently watched the old (197?) BBC production of it. I think that was equal to the Ehle/Firth version. The older one did had even more depth than Ehle/Firth...in part because they had a lot of Elizabeth's thoughts and more narration.

[cee2lee2]

Interesting, sun-star.

I recently watched the old (197?) BBC production of it. I think that was equal to the Ehle/Firth version. The older one did had even more depth than Ehle/Firth...in part because they had a lot of Elizabeth's thoughts and more narration.


I haven't seen anything since the old BBC version because I loved it so much. In fact, loved it so much I bought it when it became available. Never did see the new BBC version. Based on sun-star's review, I'll probably just watch the old one again instead of going to the movies. And it's probably about time to just read the book again, too.

[sun-star]

Oh dear, I hope I haven't put everyone off the new film! It's had good reviews and is top of the box office charts after the weekend, so I'm sure some people liked it. It just wasn't true to the way I read the book.

[cee2lee2]

Oh dear, I hope I haven't put everyone off the new film! It's had good reviews and is top of the box office charts after the weekend, so I'm sure some people liked it. It just wasn't true to the way I read the book.

You haven't put me off the film. I just love the book so much that I'd rather read it again than watch a movie. And when I get to the point that I want a visual representation, I'm very content with the old BBC version. I really appreciate your perspective on the movie. One of these days I might even watch it, but I probably won't make a great effort to go to the theater now. Of course, that would presuppose that it even makes it to our little town's theater!

[Linaewen]

Oh dear, I hope I haven't put everyone off the new film! It's had good reviews and is top of the box office charts after the weekend, so I'm sure some people liked it. It just wasn't true to the way I read the book.
I was already put off the film anyway by Keira Knightley, funnily enough. ;) Now, I have a terrible memory so I probably won't notice much if they cut some things about, but really, a 2 hour long P&P movie? Even I would notice omissions. And I can get really pedantic about character portrayal (e.g. Faramir, esp in TTT)
Anyway, my point was I'd probably be very annoyed by the film and Miss Eternal Pout anyway. :p

[hectorberlioz]

Yes. Austen's first few books published were written "By a Lady."

"Sense and Sensibility" was credited "From the author of Pride and Prejudice."...or vice versa (?). It was a little later when people really started guessing her authorship and her brother Henry started publicizing (readily admitting that his sister wrote such witty and popular novels).

^that kind of got off track :p
Sir Walter Scott's "Waverly" novels are actually not about Waverly, which was his first. The reason some of his books are "Waverly" novels is because his name wasn't published with that first book, and they put "By the author of Waverly" on each of his subsequent novels.

I won't say anything about the new P&P except this: Keira Knightly isn't fit to play an Austenian heroine. She doesn't belong in that type of movie, she just doesn't look the part.
And has anyone heard that Anne Hathaway is going to playJane Austen in a bio pic? Anne Hathaway is skeeny. Jane is healthily plump (in the portrait I saw).

[Linaewen]

Anne Hathaway, of Princess Diaries fame? o.O Can't quite picture her as Jane Austen... at all.

[cee2lee2]

Anne Hathaway, of Princess Diaries fame? o.O Can't quite picture her as Jane Austen... at all.


Nor can I. :eek:

[Rosie Gamgee]

I am currently reading Mansfield Park. I've never seen any movie based on it, so it is a different expirience of Jane Austen (the other two books of hers I've read--Sense and Sensabilitly and Pride and Prejudice--I read after watching movie versions.

[Linaewen]

Did you know that the director, Joe Wright, of the new P&P film, hasn't even read the book?

[Mercutio]

Really?! :eek: Did he just read the screenplay someone else wrote?

[cee2lee2]

Did you know that the director, Joe Wright, of the new P&P film, hasn't even read the book?
:eek: Wow!!! That certainly will make me think twice before seeing it.

[hectorberlioz]

Did you know that the director, Joe Wright, of the new P&P film, hasn't even read the book?

WHAT!!!! :eek: Thats not legitimate! that's illegal!

[Linaewen]

Yeah, I know. A bit disturbing, huh? I read it here (http://www.theage.com.au/news/film/for-our-knightley-pleasure/2005/10/20/1129775894647.html?page=2)
(Note that it's the 2nd page of the review)

[Count Comfect]

Actually, it is supposed to be a really good adaptation, except for the very last scene (this is according to my entryway tutor, who is a Jane Austen obsessee, so I trust her). The last scene was only added for American audiences. Which - boo.

[Linaewen]

Actually, it is supposed to be a really good adaptation, except for the very last scene (this is according to my entryway tutor, who is a Jane Austen obsessee, so I trust her). The last scene was only added for American audiences. Which - boo.
So what's the last scene? (I guess you should put the answer in spoilers :))

[Rían]

I just saw a preview of the new P&P - it looks good ... *cross fingers and toes*

What in the WORLD would they add for American audiences?!?!?! They better not mess wi' my JANE!!! :mad:
(Jane Austen, not Jane Bennet)

[Count Comfect]

I don't really know - my teacher said she didn't want to spoil it, just that the British ending was at "If any young men come for Mary or Kitty, send them in, for I am quite at leisure"

[sun-star]

I've heard the last scene is a kiss between Lizzy and Darcy at Pemberly after they're married.

[Rían]

oh, well, ok, I can live with that - doesn't seem outside what the characters would do! :)

Count - isn't that line fabulous?! :D

[sun-star]

One hopes they would kiss at some point in their married life, indeed... :D

[Linaewen]

I've seen that in the promo ads for it over here as well. That's what made me think they went and Hollywood-ised it or something - is there ever a movie where the couple doesn't kiss? ;)

[Count Comfect]

No. They shall never kiss. It would be against their natures :p ;)

But it isn't in the book - and it seems gratuitous. The other ending would be quite good enough.

I agree, Rian. That line is simply brilliant.

[hectorberlioz]

You know, John Lennon's killer seems pretty morally stable( ;) :rolleyes: )...maybe I should *makes cutting throat gesture* Keira Knightly.

[Linaewen]

I've seen the film now. I thought it was really quite good, with a good soundtrack too. I was able to tolerate Knightley after a while, though Bingley is really just strange (metrosexual dope?). Mr Collins & Darcy were terrific! :p

[hectorberlioz]

It got good reviews...sounds decent:)
Good soundtrack? I hope you mean it's a score...becuase if there is vocal singing in that movie I will retract my optimism.

[Mercutio]

It is now out everywhere in the U.S., not just selected cities.

Alas, I have no time in which to view the master?piece.

[Linaewen]

It got good reviews...sounds decent:)
Good soundtrack? I hope you mean it's a score...becuase if there is vocal singing in that movie I will retract my optimism.
Yes, I meant score. :o The only singing was that of Mary, I think.

Btw, here is an article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4436062.stm) about the 2 different endings.

[cee2lee2]

...Btw, here is an article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4436062.stm) about the 2 different endings.


Intersting that they had to "sweeten" the ending for the US audience. I haven't seen the movie yet, but I think I would prefer the British ending. I always laugh when I read Mr. Bennet's closing statement and have such a good feeling about Lizzie and Mr. D.

[hectorberlioz]

Yes, I meant score. :o The only singing was that of Mary, I think.

Btw, here is an article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4436062.stm) about the 2 different endings.

Which brings up a question: who does the score? It's a mainly british production I imagine, so probably Patrick Doyle.

I have to agree that the sweetened ending was probably for us americans. I can't see why we the normal ending wouldnt do...

[Linaewen]

Googling reveals that it was Dario Marianelli (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BEZQ0Y/ref=ase_metacriticcom/102-8061787-2391359?s=music&v=glance&n=5174&tagActionCode=metacriticcom) who composed the music. :)

Maybe you Americans have problems watching romantic movies that don't culminate in a kiss. :p

[jellyfishannah]

I am a big fan of the Colin Farell (of course!)one but this one looks pretty good. Can't wait to see it!

I recently finished reading Manfield Park. Needless to say, it was excellent. now I am reading Northanger Abbey.

[BeardofPants]

Northanger Abbey is one of my favourites.... ah who am I kidding, love 'em all.

[inked]

Northanger Abbey is one of my favourites.... ah who am I kidding, love 'em all.


Austen...esque?

http://www.cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm?task=singledisplay&recnum=3274

Not! but humorous on some level~ ;)

[hectorberlioz]

I am a big fan of the Colin Farell (of course!)one but this one looks pretty good. Can't wait to see it!

I recently finished reading Manfield Park. Needless to say, it was excellent. now I am reading Northanger Abbey.

Firth, remember it's Firth! Don't get your Colins so mixed up! :o

[hectorberlioz]

Googling reveals that it was Dario Marianelli (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BEZQ0Y/ref=ase_metacriticcom/102-8061787-2391359?s=music&v=glance&n=5174&tagActionCode=metacriticcom) who composed the music. :)

Maybe you Americans have problems watching romantic movies that don't culminate in a kiss. :p

Don't you preach to me about kissing, look at your own avatar;) :p

[azalea]

Just wanted to weigh in here after having seen the latest movie version. I was not going to see it because to me the Colin Firth/ Jennifer Ehle (sp?) version is the definitive one. I thought it was too soon to make another version, and I could see Kiera as Lizzy. But a friend of mine to whom I had introduced the book asked if I'd go see it with her, and so we went.

I was overall pleased with this one. The director did a fabulous job of making it his own, and I appreciated his camera direction. Many long shots (meaning time-wise, which is practically non-existant in today's films), many shots from unusual angles (E. turning on the swing, looking in the mirror, that shot through the thick glass). I especially liked the scene where he proposes, on the steps of that stone building in the rain, and then pulling back to show the grassy slope behind it. I wanted to be there!!!!!

The actors did a good job, esp. Darcy, Mr. Bennett, and Mr. Collins. Darcy was made a bit more sympathetic in this one by hinting that shyness is what caused his manner, rather than being brusque due to a lack of ease in company and generally being more serious. That might seem to be the same thing, but there is a difference.
The settings were very well done and authentic looking, and again, the director made it his own by slightly shifting the time period a bit earlier for a different look.

My one criticism is that the actors cast were a little too modern-looking, more so than in the "definitive" version, esp. Miss Bingly. Also, several of the actors in this one seemed to have difficulty with the old-style dialogue, which resulted in their sounding awkward or too modern. A couple of phrases (which I can't think of) were in there that I felt were out of place.

Anyway, definately worth a watch for any Austen fan. As for the ending, I can't imagine it ending with Mr. Bennett's line. I would have considered it a rip off not to have seen them kiss! It was done a little cheesily, but was satisfying in a way that lopping it off would not have been. Just because no kiss is described in the book doesn't mean it doesn't fit in a dramatization -- even the "definitive" version ends with a kiss. Faugh to those who critisized it! :P

[Valandil]

Having recently seen the last two movie versions - and my wife having just checked out the videotapes of the long (12-hour?) BBS production - I got the book "Pride and Prejudice" a few nights ago.

I've only been able to read in bits, but I'm about one fourth of the way through it. For 400+ pages, it's really pretty readable - the chapters are mostly short.

Enjoying it so far. :)

[Rían]

"Pretty readable"?!?!

That's one of the most brilliant books in the entire world!!! :p

C.S. Lewis really enjoyed Austen.

[Valandil]

Well - not all brilliant books are.

I had a hard time getting past the first several pages of "Moby Dick" - of course I was trying to read it on the el a few years back - but I was able to read lots of other books in that situation.

When I see a book of 400 or more pages these days - I wonder a little how much effort it will take to get through it.

"Pride and Prejudice" is not overwhelming to read though - it pulls you along quite nicely, if that's a better way to say it. And - with short chapters I can read in small snippets, which is ideal for my frequently interrupted reading opportunities.

I'm over 1/3rd through now. I find it quite funny.

[Serenoli]

I don't mean to show off, but I think I finished 'Pride and Prejudice' in half-a-day.

But, then I read fast... the first time I read LotR, my brother borrowed it from his school library, and then mockingly threatened he would return it the very next day. I took him seriously, and read for 12-13 hours straight, wothout pausing, and finished it! Imagine my chagrin when he found out and laughed at me for my silliness! Still, I have to say, it was a wonderful read... without pause, so there were no distractions, and I was more completely immersed in ME than I've ever been since.

A lot is because it was so exciting. Took me an entire month to finish Moby Dick, because every line required me to pause, and think it over...

[Rían]

I love the quote from Northanger Abbey in your sig, Serenoli - I always loved that line! IIRC, N. Abbey was the book that C.S. Lewis always loved to read when he was sick - it's just so fun!

[Valandil]

BTW - observations/comments/questions about Pride and Prejudice:

* I find it interesting that London is referred to as "town" - at first, when characters mentioned "going to town" I thought they were talking about the neighboring little town of Meryton. But apparently that's the expression for going to London (as I figured out later). Is that expression still used today?

* I'm somewhat interested in the money - especially the incomes. I know that Mr. Bennet's annual income was 2000 pounds per year, Bingley's was four or five thousand, and Darcy's 10,000. What was the source of these incomes? Was it the worth of what their estates produced each year? Was it the interest income of some greater amount - like an endowment or something? And... any idea on the relative value, in today's pounds/dollars (this being presumably set approximately 200 years ago - about the time it was written). Of course, it's hard for the money to translate literally, since those on the low end of the economic scale would have, use and maybe even need very little of it. Most commoners like me would own their house, not have any car, home or school loans, no insurance or utility costs - and most of your food came from your own animals and your vegetable garden. So all you'd need is a cash crop or some skill or trade to get you into a little bit of commerce. But still I wonder... how much actual money might a commoner earn per year in comparison with these various gentlemen.

* The homes... I'm very interested in the layouts of the houses of this time - with their drawing rooms and great rooms and breakfast rooms, etc. Any good information I can find on typical upper-class house plans of the period?

[cee2lee2]

I can't specifically answer your questions, but there's a website called the Republic of Pemberley which has a lot of Austen information. I haven't visited there in quite awhile, but I seem to remember articles on the setting/customs, etc. Possibly even something about the money. Check out the Life & Times FAQ.

http://www.pemberley.com

[Valandil]

I eventually read Pride and Prejudice twice, and now I've picked up Emma - and am over halfway through.

[Valandil]

I stayed up most of the night and practically finished Emma. I wrapped up the last few pages this morning.

I think I like it better than P&P.

[Valandil]

Since this, I've read Sense and Sensibility, and I've recently started Mansfield Park.

[Curufin]

Oooh! I love Jane Austen! :)

Read all of her books, and was lucky enough to visit the Jane Austen centre when I was in Bath over Christmas...it was neat to see a house like the one in which she had lived at one point, and to tour the museum...

(And buy more copies of her books, of course. ;))

[cee2lee2]

Oooh! I love Jane Austen! :)

Read all of her books, and was lucky enough to visit the Jane Austen centre when I was in Bath over Christmas...it was neat to see a house like the one in which she had lived at one point, and to tour the museum...

(And buy more copies of her books, of course. ;))

Lucky you!!!!:D Someday I'd like to do a literary tour of England. You know, Austen, Tolkien, Lewis, Sayers, Herriot.....

[BeardofPants]

I recently read the Jane Austen Book Club by Karen Joy Fowler - has anyone else read it? It was nice - made me want to re-read Austen again.

[Curufin]

Lucky you!!!! Someday I'd like to do a literary tour of England. You know, Austen, Tolkien, Lewis, Sayers, Herriot.....

Ah yes, and I forgot to mention I visited Tolkien's grave while I was in Oxford...:( Very touching.

[cee2lee2]

I recently read the Jane Austen Book Club by Karen Joy Fowler - has anyone else read it? It was nice - made me want to re-read Austen again.

I've seen a review but haven't read it. Since it made you want to read the originals again, it sounds worth reading. :)

[BeardofPants]

It was very engaging. :)

[Valandil]

I just finished Persuasion. For me, it was number 6, so I've now read all the Jane Austen novels! :) I read most of it today.

[cee2lee2]

I just finished Persuasion. For me, it was number 6, so I've now read all the Jane Austen novels! :) I read most of it today.

Congratulations on finishing all of the novels. :)

What did you think of Persuasion? It's my second favorite after Pride and Prejudice.

[Rían]

BTW - observations/comments/questions about Pride and Prejudice:

* I find it interesting that London is referred to as "town" - at first, when characters mentioned "going to town" I thought they were talking about the neighboring little town of Meryton. But apparently that's the expression for going to London (as I figured out later). Is that expression still used today?
I'm not sure, but another interesting thing about going to London - apparently you always went "UP" (IIRC) to London, no matter where you were.

I liked "Persuasion" a lot, too, ceelee - prob. in my top 3 Austen.

[BeardofPants]

RE: going to town, it's still used in NZ to refer to big cities like Auckland (city NOT region). My mother used to say it all the time - "we're going to town today". :)

[GrayMouser]

Just been going through the "Cambridge Companion to Jane Austen".

The two most interesting chapters, natch, are "Class" and "Money".

They explain a lot of the social framework behind the stories, like exactly what kind of life you could live on various incomes: how many servants, if you could afford a carriage. A house in "town", in addition to your country residence, would take at least 4,000 a year. Also, when a woman is mentioned as getting a lump-sum inheritance, everybody at the time would automatically calculate it as an annual income at 5%, invested in gov't bonds.

Respectable occupations a younger son could go into, and still maintain status as a gentleman- clergy(C of E, of course), law, Army, Navy, and maybe medicine, though that was still a little dicey. The Navy was better to Jane, not only because her brother was in it, but also because the Army actually cost money, while in the Navy you could make money from captured prizes.

Interesting stuff

[Valandil]

That's interesting GM. I may have to pick up that Companion Book myself. I am somewhat familiar with British Navy of that time from other readings - mostly Horatio Hornblower series by CS Forester. He gives a lot of information (along the way) about the kinds of ships, sailing, navy life, advancement and prize money. So that helped me connect with those kinds of things in Persuasion and Mansfield Park.

ceelee - I'm not sure where I would rank Persuasion. I loved P&P when I first read it, then read it again. I read Emma next, and debated with myself whether it was even better. Then, reading all the others in succession, it's just really hard to rate them against one another. I've enjoyed them all. There were some differences that stand out to me in Persuasion though:

* I think there's less dialog and a lot more narration.
* The characters are more isolated. Anne is very much alone. And we don't REALLY get inside Captain Wentworth's head until the very end of the book. Otherwise, we only have Anne's analysis of what's going on. In many ways, that's very realistic as we move toward a relationship ourselves though.
* There were a few places where things were a little unclear, some sentences I wasn't quite sure of, some spellings I wasn't sure of (unless they've changed... possible). I wonder if some of these things (and maybe even the preference for narration over dialog) were due to Jane's illness.
* At a couple points, I started to wonder if there were somewhat subtle sexuality aspects - and I wonder if they're in some of her other books and I've missed them. I also wonder if the nickname for 'Richard' was already used in slang reference to the male anatomy 200 years ago, and if that's what she was getting at in one point.

Just some musings...

Rian - are you sure about the 'up' for London? I've never noticed that anywhere before. Jerusalem of course, both because it was The Holy City, and because it was physically on high ground, but I hadn't heard that about London.

[Rían]

I'd heard that about London, but never about Jerusalem! But that makes sense about Jerusalem.

[Rían]

Yes, it looks like it's up to London ...

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=236330

and from another place at that site:
"It's an old-fashioned usage. In old railway timetables "up trains" always meant towards London, "down trains" away from London, regardless of geographic direction. And students at Oxford (or Cambridge?) would talk about being "up" when they were at college, "down" when they weren't. And being "sent down" was a very very bad situation to be in...have to explain that one to Pater, and he'd be in a frightful wax..."

[Count Comfect]

Rian is correct - especially regarding Oxbridge, where referring to a London train as "up" might be a capital offense! There is no up uppier than Oxford...or Cambridge, if you went to that benighted institution.

[Coffeehouse]

Jane Austen.. never-ending English classes.. *shivers*

We read Pride and Prejudice in class and then we watched that BBC series that lasted for ages with Mr. Darcy and the up-to-no-good Wickham.

I can't say I liked the books, all those names confused me. Was a bit better with the seriess, but that's only because those British accents sounded so hilarious and that crazy mother always had some emotional breakdown:p

[nasuada]

I've just started to read Jane Austen, The only one I've read so far is Pride and Prejudice, and I'm starting on Persuasion. I've watched a lot of the movies, I watched Emma the most recent, the one with Gwyneth Paltrow, I love that movie, it's hiliarious.:D

[GrayMouser]

I would strongly suggest your next choice should be "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_and_Prejudice_and_Zombies

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I saw that; it looked really funny! :D

[Valandil]

Recently decided to re-read some Austen novels. I went through Pride & Prejudice pretty quickly. Always a good read, and that must have been at least my 6th or 8th time through it. Then picked up Emma, which I had not read in awhile.

Don't recall feeling this way before, but I'm really starting to dislike Emma. Not the book, the person. I'm just under halfway through the book, so maybe this will change.

Anyone else feel that way reading through?

I've probably read P&P and S&S more than the others. Maybe I'll go on to some of my other less-read Austens. I've read all at least twice before, I think.

Going back in this thread, I saw someone's recommendation of The Cambridge Companion to Jane Austen - and we've just ordered it. I look forward to getting that. (EDIT: It was GrayMouser who suggested it)

[Mari]

I've always disliked Emma. I recently watched an adaptation by the BBC (a recent one) and that was the first time I kinda liked her, but in general I think she's an arrogant know-it-all who doesn't know a thing. Just like those annoying neighbours sitting behind their geraniums and blinds watching your every move and telling you what you did wrong every time you see them.

[Valandil]

I'm drawing closer to the end of the book, and at last Emma is becoming more tolerable. What struck me this time, was just HOW stuck-up she was. So aware of her social standing, and most interested in putting others in their place, if they transgressed against her in some way.

On my first reading, several years back, this book struck me as the funniest of Austen's works. Maybe because it's a joke repeated (for my third or fourth time, at least), but it hasn't seemed funny at all this time.

In retrospect, considering all Austen's works - I later realized that this one is singular in that the heroine of the story does not NEED to marry - for reasons of finances, property, material comfort - as do those in Austen's five other novels.

Jane Austen's insight into the characters of people just amazes me. You start to feel that she has known someone that each of her subjects is modeled after. And she skewers us all so well. :)

EDIT: btw, my "Cambridge Companion" just arrived the other day. I've given it a glance, and look forward to getting into it further once I've finished Emma. Or... maybe I'll be picking up one of the other novels first.

[Valandil]

The Cambridge Companion is helpful. There was one thing I was looking for that I didn't find in it yet: the nature of "entailment" of an estate. Why some estates were entailed, and others not, and how they came to be that way.

I searched online a little and finally found a good explanation. Along with a few bad ones.

= = = = =

I noticed something else. Continuing my reading, I made it through Emma, and am now halfway through Sense and Sensibility. I'll probably keep going and read them all once through again. Anyway - I noticed an interesting connection between Emma and S&S. Mrs Palmer - who is Mrs Jennings younger daughter - mentions that they're expecting the Westons to visit in London, and also mention being in Weymouth. Of course in Emma - the Westons are major characters, and Mr. Weston's son - Frank Churchill - along with Jane Fairfax, had met at Weymouth, along with others.

I wondered at first if Austen was referencing backwards to the Emma characters - but Emma was published five years later than S & S. So I imagine she just re-used the name and the place when she got to Emma.

[Valandil]

Just finished watching the 2009 Emma. First time I saw that version. I REALLY liked it. Great casting, and it somehow makes Emma (the person) a bit more sympathetic to the audience. Has anyone seen that one?

[Mari]

That may have been the one I mentioned earlier.

[Valandil]

Kept going on the Austen novels, and just finished my sixth and last - Mansfield Park. (though I've read all before - at least twice)

[Rían]

I love Austen! It amazes me how current her characters are - you would never guess how long ago they were written.

Emma is my least favorite. P&P and S&S are my favorites. Northanger Abbey is really funny - IIRC, it was C.S. Lewis' favorite read for when he was sick in bed. Mansfield Park is a little heavy, but interesting. Which one am I missing? *goes to her bookcase* Oh yeah, Persuasion. Kind of slower and heavier, but still very good - you end up really rooting for the heroine.