The Valar and...

[Ithilwin]

After thinking about it,I noted that the Valar have many similarities with the Greek gods;Manwe and Varda are their king and queen,as Zeus and Hera are for the Greek gods;Ulmo loved the sea,as Poseidon;Mandos and Lorien were the spirits of death and dreams and were brethren,like Death and Sleep in greek mythology;and Tulkas is something like Ares


I don't know if this is supposed to be here.I thought it would fit best here,if it's not close it

[Lalaith_Elf]

hey... never thought of that

Ithy my old pal... *hugs* i haven't seen you for such a long time....

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Ithilwin
After thinking about it,I noted that the Valar have many similarities with the Greek gods;Manwe and Varda are their king and queen,as Zeus and Hera are for the Greek gods;Ulmo loved the sea,as Poseidon;Mandos and Lorien were the spirits of death and dreams and were brethren,like Death and Sleep in greek mythology;and Tulkas is something like Ares


I don't know if this is supposed to be here.I thought it would fit best here,if it's not close it

I read somewhere that the 12 Valar and the Halls of Mandos are similar in concept to Norse Mythology..? I'm pretty sure there are 12 gods and a hall of the dead in Norse Mythology but I'm not 100% sure.

[azalea]

I noticed the same thing when I read The Valaquenta, and I even tried to do a correspondence chart, but I never was able to make one that was completely satisfactory. There was a discussion where this idea was mentioned (perhaps the Valaquenta discussion?), and I think the Norse idea is more accurate. But still, it is fun to think about. I always enjoyed Greek mythology. I had Tulkas as Ares, too, Ithilwin.:)

[Attalus]

I think of Tulkas as Thor, but Odin the Goth, Glutter of the Slain doesn't really correspond with Manwe, does he? He is more like Zeus, but more like the Archangel Michael. Ulmo is strikingly like Poiseidon, to me, and Aule is like unto Hesphaitos. Yavanna is Demeter or Persephone, not Hera. Orome I cannot place in either mythos, except as a male Artemis. There is no Apollo, thank Iluvater, or Aphrodite, that I can see.

[Ithilwin]

well,whoever the Valar are associate with,they really look alike the Greek gods:)

[Maedhros]

After thinking about it,I noted that the Valar have many similarities with the Greek gods;Manwe and Varda are their king and queen,as Zeus and Hera are for the Greek gods;Ulmo loved the sea,as Poseidon;Mandos and Lorien were the spirits of death and dreams and were brethren,like Death and Sleep in greek mythology;and Tulkas is something like Ares
Depends on the God.
Manwë as Zeus would be unnacpetable. The Noble Manwë compared to one such as Zeus, no. The same as Varda to Hera.
The principal difference between the Valar and the Greek Gods is the qualities that they share. The Valar are noble gods if you like while their greek counterparts seem very petty compared to them.
Although I like the comparison between Námo and Irmo to Thanatos (god of death) and Hypnos (god of sleep).
Ulmo to Poseidon is also very good. Tulkas as Ares, no. Their powers are not on the same scale, while Tulkas could beat Melkor, Ares could not even beat his sister Athena.

[Earniel]

Manwë and Varda like Zeus and Hera? *laughs* :D Oh no definately not. The only thing they have in common is the fact that they are the rulers among the gods. Zeus unnumerable escapades is totally nothing like Manwë (unless Tolkien left out some interesting things about him ;)) and Hera's jealousy doesn't fit Varda.

Ulmo does fit Poseidon and Neptunus. But I think that comes mostly from the fact that they are all 'gods' of the sea and that they're are only so many ways to depict them.

[markedel]

the valr are not as man-like as the greek gods-they serve different purposes. But I can't imagine there are no similarities, it's fairly hard to create a mythology without borrowing from the past. All mythologies do it, no less then Tolkien did.

[Anglorfin]

To me Tulkas has always been a "Thor".

Vairë, the spouse of Mandos and the weaver of the cloths has always reminded me of the three Fates from Greek mythology. They also wove huge tapestries out of threads. The only difference is that it was their choice to say who died and who lived.

I think all the other ones were mentioned. Ulmo is an obvious Poseidon. I am not sure if any of the other Valar fit as well as that. Maybe you can compare Melkor or Sauron to "Loki", the Norse trickster god. Saruman might also apply to that.

edit/ I can also see Oromë as being "Heimdal", the Norse god who stands guard at Bifrost the rainbow bridge. Heimdal had a great horn that would sound at the beginning of Ragnarok, or the Last Battle. Much akin to Tolkien's Dagor Dagorlad.

And also if a parallel were to be made between the Halls of Mandos and any other mythos, Valhalla comes to my mind. It is the place in Norse mythology where dead warriors to go to await the coming of Ragnarok where they will fight on the side of the gods against the giants.

[Shadowfax]

Tolkien got the majority of his ideas from Norse mythology, not Greek, so I don't really see how one could compare the Valar to Greek gods.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I agree, more Norse than Greek. I see Tulkas as more Thor-ic than Aresian; though of course, none of them are the same. :)

[Ithilwin]

I never said Tolkien was inspired of Greek mythology to create the Valar,I just noted that there are some similarities between them.They can't be compared

[Maedhros]

You might find a more striking resemblance between the characters of Túrin Turambar and Oedipus.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Maedhros
You might find a more striking resemblance between the characters of Túrin Turambar and Oedipus.

Oh, yeah. I forgot that. Good link. Poor Turin and Oedipus. (Though I think Oedipus' story is a bit worse)

[azalea]

I just found the old piece of paper where I wrote down for fun which Vala would correspond roughly to which Greek god. Of course as everyone said, there can be no true comparison because of the drastic personality differences between the Valar vs. the Greek gods, but it was just a fun exercise. Of all mythology, I am most familiar with Greek, which is why I happened to go with that. I couldn't think of one that would correspond to Melkor, but I suppose you could say that he embodied in one entity what each Greek god had a little of in his or her personality (as in, if Melkor were spread out among the Valar, you'd have the Greek gods. Just a funny thought.:) ). Also, when I thought of these, I was thinking more in terms of the "realm" of each rather than the personality or who they were married to.

Varda = Hera
Manwe = Zeus
Ulmo = Poseidon
Aule = Hephaestus (sp)
Yavanna = Demeter
Mandos = Thanatos
Vaire = Nemesis ? (Goddess of destiny)
Lorien = Morpheus (god of dreams)
Este = Asclepius (god of healing)
Nienna = couldn't think of one, but I'm sure there is something that corresponds.
Tulkas = Ares (not satisfactory, but in terms of their area of interest -- fighting -- they are similar in a general way)
Nessa = Hermes
Orome = Athena
Vana = Adonis

[Strongbow]

I dont think that it would fit well with any mythology other than Norse. I will sit down tonight and try to chart it out for us : )