Why do you think Gimli never calls Legolas by name?

[Pippin's_mushrooms]

As far as I know Gimli hardly ever, or maybe doesn't, call Legolas by his name. How weird is that? I'd think that becouse they were best freinds they'd call each other by name. :):D

[TopazJedi]

Yeah, i don't think he ever calls him by name. He usually refers to him as "laddie", which i find hilarious, since Gimli is so much shorter and younger than Legolas. :D

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I don't remember Gimli ever calling Legolas laddie. I don't even remember short-funny-person calling pretty-golden-boy laddie. ;)

[Bombadillo]

Did you just call Legolas pretty?

Anyway I think he never calls him by name purely for humor. I think it is pretty funny how he only says "the elf," espesially in the beginning of the Fellowship.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes. Legolas is definitely the "pretty boy" of the Fellowship, hence the fangirl following.

-mutters incomprehensible comments about You Know Who-
;)

[TopazJedi]

I don't remember Gimli ever calling Legolas laddie

It was in TTT. I think it was after Leggie and Aragorn had the fight that gimli says "Let him go, laddie". or something like that. Gotta go watch it agian (i'll come back to this thread tomorrow to verify where it was, but im pretty sure it was in that scene)

[miss_poet]

Yes, Gimlie calls Legolas "The Elf" instead of Legolas. Even in TTT when Aragorn was going to throw him off the bridge to attack he said, "Just don't tell The Elf!" He calls him by that name...actually I don't remember him calling ANYONE by their real names! He calls frodo, sam, merry, and pippin "the hobbits"! :confused: Weird...:eek:

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by TopazJedi
It was in TTT. I think it was after Leggie and Aragorn had the fight that gimli says "Let him go, laddie". or something like that. Gotta go watch it agian (i'll come back to this thread tomorrow to verify where it was, but im pretty sure it was in that scene)

You mean pretty-elf-boy and still-not-king. ;)

[straight_face]

It's a formal thing to not call someone by their actual name. Gimli calls Legolas, 'Master Elf', also.

[Orion]

If you didn´t know that Legolas and Gimli were friends though, you couldn´t guess it from the movie. I personally find "the elf" rather "rude" word to use from someone; if they have names, why not use them? I don´t think that Legolas ever calls Gimli by name either?

[straight_face]

Originally posted by Orion
I don´t think that Legolas ever calls Gimli by name either?

Would it seem natural for Tolkien to write this in his books? It seems as if it would seem correct for Legolas to say, "Gimli! Come hither!" or some other phrase using his name, yet Tolkien's writing usually doesn't use this type of "dialogue" one could say.

In other news, I have a very neat-o icon that I am hoping to use, but I'm clueless how to put it up and make straight_face pretty like everybody else.:rolleyes:

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Orion
If you didn´t know that Legolas and Gimli were friends though, you couldn´t guess it from the movie. I personally find "the elf" rather "rude" word to use from someone; if they have names, why not use them? I don´t think that Legolas ever calls Gimli by name either?
I don't think that it's rude. A lot of my friends don't call each other by name. I won't say many here because I don't want to offend people; they're mostly based on nationality. I'm 'that polock' to a lot of my friends. But nobody doesn't like it.

[Aralyn]

I think it's kind of a nickname thing. You know banter. Master elf and Master Dwarf.

[miss_poet]

My name is Katrina and no one has called me ANYTHING here! No one has called me by any name :rolleyes: Weird.....no one uses names anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[Aralyn]

Not true! We use them only when necessary or to direct a thought to a specific person Like now you know I'm talking to miss_poet cause you're the last one who posted.

You don't have any nicknames? On Entmoot or at home?

[TopazJedi]

I don´t think that Legolas ever calls Gimli by name either?

No, he calls him by name a lot! Remember when they are chasing the Uruk-hai, and Gimli keeps on falling behind, pretty-elf-boy is constantly saying "Come Gimli!". here are the exact lines:

Still-not-king: Their pace quickens. They must have caught our scent. Hurry!
Pretty-elf-boy: Come on Gimli!
Gimli: Three day's and night's pursuit.. no food... no rest... and no sign of our quarry but what bare rock can tell.
[The Three Hunters run across rocks and plains, with Still-not-king in the lead, and Pretty-elf-boy and Gimli trailing behind. Still-not-king suddenly bends down to pick up an Elven brooch from the ground.]
Still-not-king: Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.
Pretty-elf-boy: They may yet be alive.
Still-not-king: Less than a day ahead of us, come!
Pretty-elf-boy: Come Gimli! We are gaining on them.
Gimli: I'm wasted on cross-country. We dwarves are natural sprinters. Very dangerous we are over short distances.

I always thought it was odd that he would say "Come Gimli" two times in the same scene, so it stuck with me. Oh, and i found the place where Gimi calls Pretty-elf-boy "lad"

Pretty-elf-boy: Aragorn, nedin dagor hen ú-'erir otheri. Natha daged dhaer.
[Translation: "They cannot win this fight. They are all going to die!"]
Still-not-king: Then I shall die as one of them!
[Still-not-king exits.]
Gimli: [To Pretty-elf-boy]: Let him go, lad. Let him be.



He calls frodo, sam, merry, and pippin "the hobbits"! Weird...

What i find even funnier is that that is what the actors called themselves! In this interview, Lij constantly said things like "We hobbits went out for a drink" and "the hobbits and the elf went to Australia to see the set of Star Wars" and stuff like that.

[gimli7410]

i think he probably didnt have enoough respect for the elves to call him by their name. Or maybe it wasnt inthe script

[Lalaith]

No, he calls him by name a lot! Remember when they are chasing the Uruk-hai, and Gimli keeps on falling behind, pretty-elf-boy is constantly saying "Come Gimli!". here are the exact lines:
Yeah, just wanted to mention, that I also remember Legolas calling Gimli by his name. The name sounds in my ear.

Yes. Legolas is definitely the "pretty boy" of the Fellowship, hence the fangirl following.
It's a shame I think I creep back to my hollow and dream of Legolas

[Orion]

Originally posted by TopazJedi
No, he calls him by name a lot! Remember when they are chasing the Uruk-hai, and Gimli keeps on falling behind, pretty-elf-boy is constantly saying "Come Gimli!". ...
Thank you, TopazJedi - I have totally missed that scene - might be because I´m always too busy rolling my eyes to the roof and trying to ignore Gimli´s whining - actually it´s not difficult to do that because of the audience´s laughter; you can´t really hear what the characters say.. (ok, I just don´t like that scene. :D)

[Nurvingiel]

Another reason might be that Gimli has really crummy lines. And either he didn't have a lot of lines, or they had little to no impact, because there didn't seem to be enough time for decent lines.

This isn't to say I didn't like Gimli at all, because I did like him, but he wasn't very much like the book Gimli we all know and love. That's why he might not be addressing Legolas as his friend, and by his name.

[Lalaith]

Maybe there is no particular reason that he never calls his name.

[straight_face]

I'm TELLING you, it's a formal thing!

[Pippin's_mushrooms]

Originally posted by TopazJedi
It was in TTT. I think it was after Leggie and Aragorn had the fight that gimli says "Let him go, laddie". or something like that. Gotta go watch it agian (i'll come back to this thread tomorrow to verify where it was, but im pretty sure it was in that scene)


I think Gimli actually says "Let him go lad." Oh well. I haven't seen it for a couple of weeks anyway.

[Lalaith]

I guess we should write a mail to PJ or Fran Walsh or Philippa Boyens.

[Sween]

I like the way that legolas and gimili refer to each other in the movie im not a fan of normality. The only people that call me by my real name are clients and my mum and dad but my dad tends to call me son most of the time. I dont think friends ever really refer to each other in names such as David etc. My sis calls me boy, amy calls me dad (well when se can talk shes never gonna call me daddy hate that), Vita calls me lover and my mates call me sween

[BeardofPants]

Ah great, now I've got Wayne and Waynetta Slob stuck in my head... "Lovaaaar":rolleyes:

[Elfhelm]

My take on it:

Gimli and Legolas begin the tale as people who are intolerant of each other's differences. There is a long hostility among them, ut it wasn't always so. Remember that the password to enter Moria is the elvish word for "friend", but at the Council of Elrond Gimli says he will not see the One Ring "in the hands of an elf!" This is a very important theme to Tolkien.

Over the course of the movie, as in the book, we are shown the hostility between the two peoples, dwarves and elves, through the interactions of Gimli and Legolas. At first they speak negatively about each other to other people. Eventually they have a competition of who is the fiercer warrior during the Battle of Helm's Deep.

By the end of the second movie, and the second (technically third) book, the hostility has cooled to a rivalry. They are not really friends until they both do something that will not be in the movies: see through each other's eyes. This is enacted in the book through the physical reality of the Glittering Caves and Fangorn Forest.

So, what I'm saying, if it isn't obvious, is that Gimli doesn't use Legolas' name as a way of de-humanizing (de-person-izing?) him. For Legolas' part, he spends a lot of time laughing at "the dwarf" and it's pretty obvious he doesn't even take him seriously. I am sure Jackson and the writers are aware of the theme and will use Gimli's concession that Legolas actually does have a name as an easy way of showing that he has come to like "the elf."

I did notice that the caves shimmer with sparklies... maybe it will be part of the extended edition.

[straight_face]

This is a shortened piece straight from the chapter of the Lord of the Rings that I was reading last night:

'Not of all that go on two legs,' said Legolas. 'There I think you are wrong... From the deep dales of Fangorn, Gimli, that is whence they come, I guess.'
'Strange are the ways of Men, Legolas!' said Gimli. '... My good Legolas, do you know the caverns of Helm's Deep are vast and beautiful? ... And, Legolas, when the torches are kindled... ah! then, Legolas, gems and crystals and veins of precious ore glint... columns of white and saffron and dawn-rose, Legolas... There is chamber after chamber, Legolas... it makes me weep to leave them."
'Then I wish you this fortune for your comfort, Gimli,' said the Elf. '... you move me, Gimli."

This obviously proves that they do it in the book. If you're still wondering why they don't do it in the movie, call up Peter Jackson or something.

[Elfhelm]

I am confused. Did you read my post? Are you supporting my point? Because it sure looks like that is the section I refered to. It is at that point that they begin to become friends. Should I go find the evidence in the book that they are intolerant of each other before this point?

And, this is a discussion of Peter Jackson's movie and the question was about the script and the motives of the script writer. So I hope you see why I'm confused.

[azalea]

I think Straight face was referring to the thread starter's question, and he was saying that they DID call each other by name in the book, but it is true (I think) that the thread starter was talking about why they don't (if they don't; I don't really remember) in the movie. Hope that clears up some confusion.

edited for grammar.

[straight_face]

Originally posted by Elfhelm

And, this is a discussion of Peter Jackson's movie and the question was about the script and the motives of the script writer.

And how was I to know that this was about the movie? Did you read my last comment? The original thread-starter never stated whether this was about the movie or the book. If one of the previous replies stated that, I would not know, for I do not read many replies.

If this was about the 'script and the motives of the script writer', the original thread should have said that.

[BeardofPants]

Well that would be why the thread was placed in the movie forum, maybe?

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by Pippin's_mushrooms
As far as I know Gimli hardly ever, or maybe doesn't, call Legolas by his name. How weird is that? I'd think that becouse they were best freinds they'd call each other by name. :):D

Well, as you can see, the original poster also was under the mistaken assumption that they were best friends. The do become best friends, but they aren't there yet.

No problem, straight, that you got the forums confused. Happens all the time.

[Bombadillo]

No no no that's too complicated for me. I think it was just for humour. It was really up to the script writer whoever that was, and for some reason I don't think that they'd go so deep.

[nessawen]

i love it when Gimli calls Legolas "master elf" or "the elf" in the Fellowship of the Ring!:cool: Gimli is so funny! :D :D :D

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
No no no that's too complicated for me. I think it was just for humour. It was really up to the script writer whoever that was, and for some reason I don't think that they'd go so deep.

Then you don't know Philippa Boyens.

[TopazJedi]

They are not really friends until they both do something that will not be in the movies: see through each other's eyes. This is enacted in the book through the physical reality of the Glittering Caves and Fangorn Forest.

I don't totally agree with that. what about in the movie where Eomer is threataning Gimli and Legolas pulles out his bow and says "you would die before your stroke fell". Thats straight from the books, isn't it? That shows that already Legolas was friends with Gimli and willing to defend him. And in the books, legolas is very good natured about gimli killing more orcs than him. And if they haddnt already been freinds, they wouldn't have agreed to go see the caves and fangorn together.

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Then you don't know Philippa Boyens. I could be wrong. But I think that for most people the effect was only humour, so that's mainly what she was looking for.