The Forgotten Fingon

[Maedhros]

I have always wondered about why isn't Fingon a popular character.
He is certainly an Elf with a high moral character.
He who was the son of Fingolfin, he who was betrayed along with Fingolfin's host in the Wastes of Araman, he who undertook the journey into the Helcaraxë, he had his brothers wife killed in that journey, and his brother Arakáno died in the Nuin Giliath. He thought that Maedhros had betrayed him in the burning of the ships at Losgar, and still he went on to rescue him to heal the feuds between the Houses of Fingolfin and Fëanor. He had no oath, he acted for the best of his people.
What fault can I find in Fingon's character? Not too many. The only thing that comes to my head is the fact that he led the foremost host of Fingolfin and it may be possible that he participated in the Kinslaying of Alqualondë. But if he did, he participated because he saw his kin in a battle and had no way to tell that the Ñoldor had initiated the batlle.
He did acts that were the true acts of a king to his people.
He and his archers vanquished Glaurung in a battle. He died valiantly battling Gothmog, and was only vanquished because of a balrog that hit him from behind.

[Maedhros]

I keep forgetting, why is FF so well liked? Why is he more popular than Fingon? Is it because he has golden hair?

[Artanis]

Fingon is not forgotten :) I've said in another thread that his rescue of Maedhros is one of my favourite stories in the Sil. To me his greatness was revealed then.Is it because he has golden hair?Do I smell hair envy? :D

[Maedhros]

I still don't get why FF is chosen over Fingon. Doesn't makes sense to me.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I still don't get why FF is chosen over Fingon. Doesn't makes sense to me. I don't choose Finrod over Fingon, so I can't answer you. SGH undoubtedly will have answers. :p But I can tell you why I like Finrod, most of all because he befriended Men and saw their greatness, and didn't belittle them as other Elves tended to do. And then of course there are his other noble qualities, but these he shared with many other of the Eldar.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I have always found Fingon to be a wonderful charactor. His rescue of Meadhros that bridged the division of the Noldor, his leadership on the ice, and as High King, and his bravery on the battlefield. He wasn't called "the valiant" for nothing.

I don't understand this need to constantly compare other characters to Finrod. They all had their good qualities. Meadhros, why do you dislike him so much? He was a good guy. Next thing you'll be telling me that Sauron and Morgoth were better than FF.:p

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I agree, Fingon rocks, my world. (Realises how moronic he sounds when he says that.)

Do I smell hair envy?

EVERYONE knows that Fingon has the best hair in Arda. except maybe for Aegnor.

In the case of Fingon it was suitable; he wore his long dark hair in plaist braided with gold. HoME 10; Shibboleth of Feanor

Pffft...who wants plain, old boring, blonde when you can have that.

But, I still like Aegnor's hair.


his hair was notable: Golden like his brothers and sisters, but stiff and strong, rising up like flames.
HoME 10; Shibboleth of Feanor

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
EVERYONE knows that Fingon has the best hair in Arda. except maybe for Aegnor. And perhaps except Artanis ;) Or are the nissi not accepted in this particular hair-beauty-competition?

Pffft...who wants plain, old boring, blonde when you can have that. Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

That description of Aegnor's hair is rather funny. Actually, IIRC, the ladies here have discussed his hair-colour in another thread :D

[Fat middle]

When reading the Silm. i always feel that Tolkien (or Christopher, who knows) was particularly fond of Felagund.

but i agree that Fingon can be compared with FF.

Perhaps the difference is that FF helps a man when men were seen as very lesser peoples and that FF is not only an heroic figure but also a wise elf. if we add his love story, then... i'm seeing again that Tolkien had good reasons to be fond of him;)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I keep forgetting, why is FF so well liked? Why is he more popular than Fingon? Is it because he has golden hair?

The hair has nothing to do with it. Finrod is just... well... jeeze... haven't we discussed why he is "THE ELF" among all other elves. Do we really have to rehash this? I think this is a mute point.

Besides, Fingon is not forgotten... he was a great elf, certainly not to equal Finrod. But hey, who could? I really like Fingon's character. Especially when he rescues Maedhros from his long years of torment on the wall (really touched me, deeply).

But again... he's not Finrod.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Aegnors hair was only like that in his youth, when he became angry, IIRC.

[Ruinel]

I'm still really confused about the hair thing. Is this a discussion thread about hair? Or weren't we discussing Fingon? I'm just really confused right now.:confused: *feels insecure about plain red hair... puts hair in pony tail*

[Maedhros]

Besides, Fingon is not forgotten... he was a great elf, certainly not to equal Finrod. But hey, who could? I really like Fingon's character. Especially when he rescues Maedhros from his long years of torment on the wall (really touched me, deeply).
Hehe.
Let's see Fingon's brother was killed when the host of Fingolfin reached ME. He thought that he was betrayed by Maedhros, and yet with all of those things, he risked his life to save his friend to breach the gap between the Ñoldor. He had no oath.
Whereas FF, aided Beren because of an Oath. Let's see on was in Nargothrond and the other in Hithlum.
FF is certainly not braver than Fingon. Why is he suppodsedly better?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Hehe.
Let's see Fingon's brother was killed when the host of Fingolfin reached ME. He thought that he was betrayed by Maedhros, and yet with all of those things, he risked his life to save his friend to breach the gap between the Ñoldor. He had no oath.
Whereas FF, aided Beren because of an Oath. Let's see on was in Nargothrond and the other in Hithlum.
FF is certainly not braver than Fingon. Why is he suppodsedly better? Where does it say that Fingon's brother was killed.

You seem to be implying that Finrod's aid to Beren through an oath made his deeds of less worth than other Elves. I find it admirable that he swore an oath of aid and abiding friendship to Barahir, and then several years later kept his promise and aided Beren, sacrificing his life. His oath did not make his deeds any less greater. And if you want to look at it that way, we could say that Fingon had an ulterior motive in aiding Meadhros, because he wanted to bridge the gap between the Noldor and what better way, than to commit such a heroic feat. Not that I think that's the way it was, but we could look at it that way.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Where does it say that Fingon's brother was killed.

He is refering to Arakano, who is not in the Silmarilion, but only in the Shiboleth of Feanor in HoME.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
He is refering to Arakano, who is not in the Silmarilion, but only in the Shiboleth of Feanor in HoME. Thanks Lefty.

[Melko Belcha]

Really I don't prefer one Elf to the next. They all had important roles in the outcome of ME.
Fingon rescued Maedhros, led the assualt against Glaurung, and led the westeren army in the Niraeth Arnoediad.
Finrod built Minas Tirith, built Nargothrond, was the first to encounter Men, and gave his life for Beren.
Finrod was featured in more of the detailed stories of the First Age then the other princes, but I do not think that truely makes him better.
If Fingon and the Noldor of Hithlum didn't hold back Melkor for so long Finrod might not have had the chance to rule the largest Noldorin realm in Beleriand.

[Maedhros]

You seem to be implying that Finrod's aid to Beren through an oath made his deeds of less worth than other Elves. I find it admirable that he swore an oath of aid and abiding friendship to Barahir, and then several years later kept his promise and aided Beren, sacrificing his life. His oath did not make his deeds any less greater. And if you want to look at it that way, we could say that Fingon had an ulterior motive in aiding Meadhros, because he wanted to bridge the gap between the Noldor and what better way, than to commit such a heroic feat. Not that I think that's the way it was, but we could look at it that way.
Yep. That is exaclty what I'm saying, I don't think that Finrod would have aided Beren for his selfish quest if he didn't have made an oath, meanwhile the deed of Fingon was to bring peace to his people.

[Melko Belcha]

Ask yourself if Beren would have gone to Nargothrond if it was not for the oath?
Beren searched out Finrod because the oath.
And remember Finrod's foresight that he told to Galadriel. I don't have the book around but they are talking about why Finrod had no wife and he said that one day he would swear an oath.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Yep. That is exaclty what I'm saying, I don't think that Finrod would have aided Beren for his selfish quest if he didn't have made an oath, meanwhile the deed of Fingon was to bring peace to his people. There is a big difference between keeping a sworn promise that shows your true loyalty and friendship, than having another purpose for why you do something heroic.

[Maedhros]

There is a big difference between keeping a sworn promise that shows your true loyalty and friendship, than having another purpose for why you do something heroic.
Yes, true friendship has no need of oaths. You just do it because it's the right thing to do. I wonder if the thought of going alone to Angband and rescue Maedhros ever entered into the head of FF.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Yes, true friendship has no need of oaths. You just do it because it's the right thing to do. I wonder if the thought of going alone to Angband and rescue Maedhros ever entered into the head of FF. Remember that Finrod was on the battlefield when he swore his oath to Barahir. Barahir saved his life and Finrod was greatful. What is wrong with that? :mad:

Fingon had plenty of time to consider his course of action.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Fingon had no ties with the people that abadoned his people and led to the death of his sister-in-law in Argon his brothers, plus many others.

He rescued Maedhros for love, not any oath.

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I keep forgetting, why is FF so well liked?

Because I'm such an adorable little hobbit-lass!!

J/K ... I haven't forgotten Fingon at all. In fact, I like him better than Finrod, although Fingolfin is the best of all (see signature). Maedhros is one of my favorite Elves, and the story of Fingon saving Maedhros from Thangorodrim is so touching. Really love it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera


He rescued Maedhros for love, not any oath. Fingon, although valiant and brave, had another agenda for rescuing Maedhros. It was not just his love for him.

[Maedhros]

Fingon, although valiant and brave, had another agenda for rescuing Maedhros. It was not just his love for him.
Yes, the uniting of the Ñoldor. Which is in itself a noble goal. And he had no oath.
I don't understand this need to constantly compare other characters to Finrod. They all had their good qualities. Meadhros, why do you dislike him so much? He was a good guy. Next thing you'll be telling me that Sauron and Morgoth were better than FF.
I think that it's cool. I want to end the myth that FF was the best elf char in the Sil. People might prefer him over other characters, but that is a personal opinion, I'm trying to prove that it is not because of his deeds.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think that it's cool. I want to end the myth that FF was the best elf char in the Sil. People might prefer him over other characters, but that is a personal opinion, I'm trying to prove that it is not because of his deeds.I don't think anyone has said that Finrod was the best Elf character in the Sil. He was a great Elf as were many. I think people love Finrod more for his kind and gentle nature. He was very noble and yet very down to earth. Not a snob. His deeds were great in their own right, just as the other princes. They all had a common goal together, and that was to fight the evil in the North and to protect their people.

Finrod is my favorite character, because of his nature. He is a character that stirs emotion in the reader. He makes you cry, because of his good nature, and yet all of his goodness did not save him from a life of lonliness or death. Yet he remained strong and endured to the end. Give him some credit, and a break. He is a great guy.:p

[Melko Belcha]

Sister Golden Hair I must say that I completely agree with what you just said.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
Sister Golden Hair I must say that I completely agree with what you just said. Thank you.:)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I don't think anyone has said that Finrod was the best Elf character in the Sil. He was a great Elf as were many. I think people love Finrod more for his kind and gentle nature. He was very noble and yet very down to earth. Not a snob. His deeds were great in their own right, just as the other princes. They all had a common goal together, and that was to fight the evil in the North and to protect their people.

Finrod is my favorite character, because of his nature. He is a character that stirs emotion in the reader. He makes you cry, because of his good nature, and yet all of his goodness did not save him from a life of lonliness or death. Yet he remained strong and endured to the end. Give him some credit, and a break. He is a great guy.:p

Absolutely! :D However, I believe that I was the one who said Finrod was the best Elf character in The Sil. And I stand by that and am ready to defend that position. *draws Elven sword, places shield in front in defensive position*

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Absolutely! :D However, I believe that I was the one who said Finrod was the best Elf character in The Sil. And I stand by that and am ready to defend that position. *draws Elven sword, places shield in front in defensive position* Well, he is that to you and me. You can't expect most of the male readers to feel that way. They like their favorite characters for other reasons.:)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, he is that to you and me. You can't expect most of the male readers to feel that way. They like their favorite characters for other reasons.:)

:rolleyes: sigh, yeah, I suppose you are right. *puts sword away and relaxes* :D I wouldn't want to impose my views on anyone else. ;)

[afro-elf]

Maedhros is English your 1st language or do you tend to just make speedy typing errors such as the following from your post?


he had his brothers wife killed in that journey

That is pushing the grammatical standard of ambiguity between his brother's wife was killed on the journey and his ordering the death of his brother's wife. :)

I jest because I know own foible.

It seems that you perceive that there is some great juggernaut of Finrod support that is laying waste all that is in its path. Where do you base your feelings on this?

[Maedhros]

Maedhros is English your 1st language or do you tend to just make speedy typing errors such as the following from your post?
No one is perfect.
It seems that you perceive that there is some great juggernaut of Finrod support that is laying waste all that is in its path.
I like annoying FF fans.;)

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I like annoying FF fans.;) Really? I think you've succeded :p

At least you've managed to create some discussion in this forum :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

At least you've managed to create some discussion in this forum Yeah, well, that's what the Silmarillion chapter discussion was for. A forum can't thrive, if people don't post.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yeah, well, that's what the Silmarillion chapter discussion was for. Right, another one of ^^^'s good ideas. But right now it's been rather silent in the sticky thread up there.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Artanis
Right, another one of ^^^'s good ideas. But right now it's been rather silent in the sticky thread up there. I think that's because the chapter being discussed now is so short.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I think that's because the chapter being discussed now is so short. Sure. *checks when the next chapter is due* - oh good, it's tomorrow! :) And then Fëanor enters the scene :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Artanis
Sure. *checks when the next chapter is due* - oh good, it's tomorrow! :) And then Fëanor enters the scene :D Not sure about it getting posted then. The person that it is assigned to I haven't seen on the board for awhile. I hope they remember. If not, it will have to be re-assigned.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Checked that profile and they last posted January 28th. If it has to be re-assigned, I will put up a sticky for re-assignments in the future.

[Artanis]

Well, it's risky to make plans more than a year ahead with members on a board like this, as it is done in the Sil project.

Now perhaps we should go back to the topic of this thread, or the title will prove itself true :D

[Falagar]

Fingon...uhmm...I liked his death :rolleyes:

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Falagar
Fingon...uhmm...I liked his death :rolleyes: What a carefully ambigious statement :D

But I had forgotten exactly how Fingon died. If it took two balrogs to end his life, he must indeed have been a great warrior.

[Falagar]

Taking this completely out of my mind, but isn't it stated that his head burned down when it was cloven (or if it was decapitated...can't remember)?

[Artanis]

But now in the western battle Fingon and Turgon were assailed by a tide of foes thrice greater than all the force that was left to them. Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, high-captain of Angband, was come; and he drove a dark wedge between the Elvenhosts, surrounding King Fingon, and thrusting Turgon and Húrin aside towards the Fen of Serech. Then he turned upon Fingon. That was a grim meeting. At last Fingon stood alone with his guard dead about him; and he fought with Gothmog, until another Balrog came behind and cast a thong of fire about him. Then Gothmog hewed him with his black axe, and a white flame sprang up from the helm of Fingon as it was cloven. Thus fell the High King of the Noldor; and they beat him into the dust with their maces, and his banner, blue and silver, they trod into the mire of his blood.Reading about this battle again now moves me. Nirnaeth Arnoediad is indeed a fitting name.

[Falagar]

Yeah, there's a reason why it's my favorite chapter. It was even sadder than the tale of The Fall of Gondolin in The Book of Lost Tales, part two... :(

[Artanis]

Hmm, FoG is up high on the list of stories/books waiting to be read. If only I had more time ... :rolleyes:

Ooops, straying out of topic again :rolleyes:

[Maedhros]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Next thing you'll be telling me that Sauron and Morgoth were better than FF.:p
I don't know about Melkor, but I can make a very good case with Sauron.;)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I like annoying FF fans.;)

:eek: Go annoy the Legolas/Orli Fangirls!!!! At least we have reasons to like Finrod Felegund. Legolas is a dork! Maedhros, you need a spanking!
"Tears Unnumbered" :( so *snif* sad... and it took 2 Balrogs to bring him down... that's gotta say something.
Artanis: you must make the time, turn off the TV... sit in your favorite chair and read. There is so much more in the books than is on TV. Nothing good is on TV anymore (especially since Farscape is being canceled on the SciFi channel).

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I don't know about Melkor, but I can make a very good case with Sauron.;) I will overlook that remark, since I know you are just trying to get a rise out of me. :p

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Artanis: you must make the time, turn off the TV... sit in your favorite chair and read. There is so much more in the books than is on TV. Nothing good is on TV anymore (especially since Farscape is being canceled on the SciFi channel). Did I say anything about TV? :p I hardly never watch TV, except the news and some good movies. Not that I don't want to, I haven't got time. And there's piles of books in my shelf waiting impatiently to be read, among them most of the HoME series. These are not books you sit down and read easily, you need time to contemplate. But with three kids and a full-time job ... nuff said.Originally posted by Maedhros
I don't know about Melkor, but I can make a very good case with Sauron.It would be interesting to see that case, Maedhros. :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

It would be interesting to see that case, Maedhros.Artanis, you musn't incourage him.:rolleyes: :D

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Artanis, you musn't incourage him.:rolleyes: :D He-he. It's my curiosity. I wonder how he will make Sauron appeal to you the way Finrod does. :D

[Maedhros]

He-he. It's my curiosity. I wonder how he will make Sauron appeal to you the way Finrod does.
I have a line of reasoning, I just need a little time to post.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I have a line of reasoning, I just need a little time to post. Spare me.:rolleyes:

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Artanis
Did I say anything about TV? :p I hardly never watch TV, except the news and some good movies. Not that I don't want to, I haven't got time. And there's piles of books in my shelf waiting impatiently to be read, among them most of the HoME series. These are not books you sit down and read easily, you need time to contemplate. But with three kids and a full-time job ... nuff said.
I hear ya, loud and clear. I have two kids myself and a full-time job (see where it says... M-F 7am to 4pm: HELL... yeah, that's work). I read Morgoth's Ring in less than a day. But my kids were spending the day at their friends' houses (lucky break for me!). I mentioned the TV b/c most people watch a lot of TV, which I find to be wasted time. Sorry.

Originally posted by Artanis
It would be interesting to see that case, Maedhros. :D
*puts head in hands* Please, oh, please, do not encourage this little pup.

[Artanis]

Kids are a blessing, aren't they :)
I read Morgoth's Ring in less than a day.Wow. I don't think I could read any of the HoME books in just a day, even with kids away and no other duties. Someone said here that you don't read the HoME books, you study them. That's how I feel too.
*puts head in hands* Please, oh, please, do not encourage this little pup. Too late, I'm afraid :D Aren't you curious also?

[Maedhros]

I hear ya, loud and clear. I have two kids myself and a full-time job (see where it says... M-F 7am to 4pm: HELL... yeah, that's work). I read Morgoth's Ring in less than a day. But my kids were spending the day at their friends' houses (lucky break for me!). I mentioned the TV b/c most people watch a lot of TV, which I find to be wasted time. Sorry.
Wow, you are old. (Not that it's a bad thing)
It would be scary to see you and SGH fighting over FF, now that is scary. That would be a heavyweight no holding back fight.
Too late, I'm afraid Aren't you curious also?
Hehe.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Wow, you are old. (Not that it's a bad thing)
It would be scary to see you and SGH fighting over FF, now that is scary. That would be a heavyweight no holding back fight.

Hehe.

Duh... yeah, little pup. Read my profile: 1300 first age! That's pretty friggin' old, dude.

Probably not a "heavyweight" fight as I'm almost 120 lbs, but I'm stronger than I seem. I don't know what class SGH fits in, I assume about the same. SGH and I have a truce, unless she reads "The story of Rúnyel, Tolkien revised." *looks around anxiously* which I'm not telling in what thread it is! *knows this isn't going to save her* sign... omg what have I done.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Artanis
Kids are a blessing, aren't they :)
Wow. I don't think I could read any of the HoME books in just a day, even with kids away and no other duties. Someone said here that you don't read the HoME books, you study them. That's how I feel too.
Too late, I'm afraid :D Aren't you curious also?

Blessing or curse, it depends on the day.
I'm a fast reader, or so I've been told. I read them.
Ack!!! Curious!!! Ack!!! *sputter* NO! Don't even go there! He's like a bottle of hot soda... open the bottle and there'll be a mess everywhere.

[Lefty Scaevola]

He as king only for 18 years. He did not has a long time to cultivate a royal fan base. Heir apparents have less significance among immortals.

[Maedhros]

First, lets see a little background on Sauron:
Sauron was one of the Ainur, and was noble and good at the beginning. Of course Sauron was a former maiar of Aulë and had plenty of skill as a craftsmen, unlike FF.
From Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed
it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and co-ordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction.
He like Finrod Felagund, followed other beings. Sauron followed Morgoth, and Finrod followed Fëanor to Middle-earth. Both Morgoth and Fëanor were mightier beings than Sauron and Finrod.
Both Sauron and Finrod were lords of great realms in Middle-earth, and had great influence with the race of Men. While Finrod aided men and thought them good things, Sauron corrupted them into his service. Sauron of course, was the one responsible to hastening the Fall of Numenórë.
Finrod was of the house of Finarfin, and had golden hair, yet Sauron as en ëalar, could take any form he wished to appear, so he could look fairer than Finrod Felagund.
In the end, both Finrod Felagund and Sauron wanted what they thought best for the World. While FF believe firmly in the righteousness of the Valar, Sauron belived after the downfall of Morgoth that he could do things best that anyone else.
From Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed
and though the only real good in, or rational motive for, all this ordering and planning and organization was the good of all inhabitants of Arda (even admitting Sauron's right to be their supreme lord)
In the end, Sauron slayed Finrod Felagund in a battle of songs of power but what a way to loose his hröar than to someone who resembled him in a relatively equal way.
In their slayings in Middle-earth, FF returned to Valinórë to be with Amarië and Sauron went to the void to be reunited with his mentor.
The principal difference that I see is that Sauron never repented for his sins, while Finrod I would assume that he repented for following Fëanor into ME.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
First, lets see a little background on Sauron:
Sauron was one of the Ainur, and was noble and good at the beginning. Of course Sauron was a former maiar of Aulë and had plenty of skill as a craftsmen, unlike FF. Finrod did have skill as a craftsman. Why do you think he was called Felagund. Tolkien does say that he was more interested in matters of thought than with skill of hand though.


He like Finrod Felagund, followed other beings. Sauron followed Morgoth, and Finrod followed Fëanor to Middle-earth.Finrod did not follow Feanor, he followed Fingolfin and his sons who followed Feanor. Both Morgoth and Fëanor were mightier beings than Sauron and Finrod.How could Feanor be mightier than a Maia?

Finrod was of the house of Finarfin, and had golden hair, yet Sauron as en ëalar, could take any form he wished to appear, so he could look fairer than Finrod Felagund.Why is this significant? Sauron was a Maia and had the ability then to assume any fair form he wished, but in the end, Meadhros, who was the fairest?


In the end, Sauron slayed Finrod Felagund in a battle of songs of power but what a way to loose his hröar than to someone who resembled him in a relatively equal way.Sauron did not slay him in a song of power. Finrod was slain by a wolf in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Sauron did not resemble Finrod in any way.

The principal difference that I see is that Sauron never repented for his sins, while Finrod I would assume that he repented for following Fëanor into ME. Finrod was like all the Noldor that went into exile, under the curse of Mandos, and I believe that he may have only repented for defying the Valar and going into exile, not for following Feanor. Finrod was rleased from Mandos quickly.:p

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Finrod did not follow Feanor he followed Fingolfin and his sons

But he like all the Noldor was still swayed by his words.

How could Feanor be mightier then a Maia?

I think he meant it in the context that Morgoth was more powerful then Sauron and Feanor mightier then Finrod , though both Sauron and Finrod were wiser then Feanor and Morgoth respectively.

[Sister Golden Hair]

But he like all the Noldor was still swayed by his words.Perhaps, but Finrod joined the revolt reluctantly. The Sil says that he stood by Turgon his friend.

[Maedhros]

I think he meant it in the context that Morgoth was more powerful then Sauron and Feanor mightier then Finrod , though both Sauron and Finrod were wiser then Feanor and Morgoth respectively.
Yep.
Perhaps, but Finrod joined the revolt reluctantly. The Sil says that he stood by Turgon his friend.
Yet, he still followed the revolt, he could have done like his father and remain, but he followed it.
Finrod did have skill as a craftsman. Why do you think he was called Felagund.
He may have been a good craftsmen, but his skills are not compared to that of Fëanor nor Celebrimbor.
Sauron did not slay him in a song of power. Finrod was slain by a wolf in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Sauron did not resemble Finrod in any way.
He was defeated by Sauron. Finrod had skills but not nearly enough to beat Sauron.
Finrod was like all the Noldor that went into exile, under the curse of Mandos, and I believe that he may have only repented for defying the Valar and going into exile, not for following Feanor.
Defying the Valar is the same as following Fëanor.
From The Peoples of Middle-earth: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Then Nerdanel was angry and she answered: 'You will not keep all of them. One at least will never set foot on Middle-earth.' 'Take your evil omens to the Valar who will delight in them,' said Fëanor. 'I defy them'. So they parted.

[Sister Golden Hair]

:rolleyes:

[Willow Oran]

Oh my... How the two Elf lords in question would laugh at this thread. It's utterly ridiculous to try and argue that one is better than the other. They are both wonderful characters because of the different personalities and virtues that Tolkien gave them, not because of the way they compared to one another. I fail to see how you can feasibly compare them in a a negative manner. They were both loyal to their friends, though each showed that loyalty in different ways. They both fought valiently against those who followed Morgoth and both ruled their people wisely in the ways that they believed were wise, which, when you think about it, is the best a ruler can do. Personally I like Finrod's character more, but that is largely because I know more about him, and because what I know of his personality appeals to me. He is someone who values peace and thought but is no coward and has skill in other things as well. If there were as many detailed stories including Fingon as there are including Finrod then perhaps I know more of him and my opinion would change, but as it is, that is not the case.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
:rolleyes:

You see what I'm saying SGH? :rolleyes: This is why we should let sleeping pups lie. I can't even respond I'm so disgusted :mad: . He makes false statements in disrespect of the greatest Elf that was ever created in JRRT's worlds and has no facts to back it up with. :D

*draws sword, contemplates a second Kinslaying for Maedhros, then sighs and gives up* after all, you'd just be reborn again, what's the point. *throws hands up in the air*

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Maedhros resisted the urge to Slay Elves for the Jewels for quite a time and held back the urge of his brothers as well. Obviously, he had to eventually succumb to fate...

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
Maedhros resisted the urge to Slay Elves for the Jewels for quite a time and held back the urge of his brothers as well. Obviously, he had to eventually succumb to fate...

:rolleyes: You misunderstand... I ... want ... to ... slay... Maedhros. THAT is the said "second Kinslaying".... me, Ruinel (Elf), slaying Maedhros (also Elf, but the one who posts, not the character in The Sil). Got it? :D

[Artanis]

Maedhros, I don't think you managed to convince them :D But I enjoyed the trial. Better luck next time. ;) :D

[Maedhros]

If I could have convinced them, they wouldn't been FF fans.;)

You misunderstand... I ... want ... to ... slay... Maedhros. THAT is the said "second Kinslaying".... me, Ruinel (Elf), slaying Maedhros (also Elf, but the one who posts, not the character in The Sil). Got it?
Where is SGH when you need her?:rolleyes:

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
If I could have convinced them, they wouldn't been FF fans.;)


Where is SGH when you need her?:rolleyes:

Don't hide behind her skirts, little pup. :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Don't hide behind her skirts, little pup. :D Meadhros, you are talking about my hero, but I will defend you. That is my job as administrator. Ruinel, it is agianst posting policies to threaten to murder another member. I am a senior member, an admin, and I have loved FF probably longer than you have been alive. Only I may make that threat. And if I do that, he will be tortured by a deadly pillow fight, and then be made to face a wolf called Buttercup.:D

[Gwaimir Windgem]

:eek:

O, the horror!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
:eek:

O, the horror! Pretty scary huh? I thought so.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yesyesyes, of course ogreatadmin! :D


EDIT: A most fitting punishment for one who would defile the honour of Finrod the Valiant. ;)

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Maedhros
If I could have convinced them, they wouldn't been FF fans.;) Very true :p
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Only I may make that threat.I love that. The absolute power of an admin. :p

[Falagar]

All hail the great admin! ;)
And if I do that, he will be tortured by a deadly pillow fight, and then be made to face a wolf called Buttercup.:D
:eek: I was going to suggest hanging him by his hand from the peak of Mt. Everest, but it looks like you've found a worse punishment :rolleyes:

[Maedhros]

It seems that the protector is worse than the punisher.:p

[Ruinel]

Sorry, the rage goes with the red hair and green eyes. I was born to be wild and untamed. His outright insolence was the cause of my irresponsible words. :mad:
However, I take them back, I will not "slay" Maedhros. Besides, he's only a little pup who needs a rolled newpaper to swat his little patoot, not to be slain. :p :D Even if I was only joking (reread it!);)
I....*grrrr*.... appologize. :rolleyes:

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Then Fingon the valiant resolved to heal the feud. Of all the children of Finwe he is most justly renowned: for his valour was as a fire and steadfast as the hills of stone; wise he was, and skilled in voice and hand; troth and justice he loved and bore good will to all, both Elves and Men, hating Morgoth only; he sought not his own, neither power and glory...

HoME 5; The lost road

Although admittely, this is pre-LoTR Silamrillion, and it was revised, (esp. the relationships. Here Angrod and Aegnor are pro-Feanorian, whislt the rest of the Finweans princes are anti) and his friendship with Maedhros is not a factor yet, we can see that Fingon is described as the greatest of the Finweans. Finrod included....:p

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I still don't get why FF is chosen over Fingon. Doesn't makes sense to me.


Because I'm hot. and I'm married to SGH! LOL!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Because I'm hot. and I'm married to SGH! LOL!

roflol!! Aha! So, your the Finrod that is married to SGH!! Finally, it all makes sense! Um, my Finrod is in Aman. You are not him. I hope you and SGH are happy together. :D

[Inderjit Sanghera]

roflol!! Aha! So, your the Finrod that is married to SGH!! Finally, it all makes sense! Um, my Finrod is in Aman. You are not him. I hope you and SGH are happy together.

You REALLY are scaring me...please stop.

[BeardofPants]

Yes, for the sake of his sanity, please stop. Is there any thread where this argument hasn't tumbled over into? :rolleyes: :p

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
You REALLY are scaring me...please stop.

Doesn't she just scare everyone?

[Sister Golden Hair]

BoP is right. Let's get on topic folks.

[Ruinel]

*looks sheepishly* oops, sorry. Didn't I say I wasn't going to do that anymore. *rolls eyes* :rolleyes: Please accept my appologies.

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Ruinel
roflol!! Aha! So, your the Finrod that is married to SGH!! Finally, it all makes sense! Um, my Finrod is in Aman. You are not him. I hope you and SGH are happy together. :D

I am the only Finrod. So...SGH and I were never legally married. It's an unoficcial entmoot thing. Since I'm king and she's queen of Nargothrond.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
I am the only Finrod. So...SGH and I were never legally married. It's an unoficcial entmoot thing. Since I'm king and she's queen of Nargothrond.
hahahaha... stop it... you're going to get me in trouble, again. ahahahaaha... you can have her "Finrod" *wink, wink*

[Finrod Felagund]

I can't have you both? Heck I'm king. Solomon had 700 wives (& 300 concubines). Oh yeah, I'm an elf. I forgot.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
hahahaha... stop it... you're going to get me in trouble, again. ahahahaaha... you can have her "Finrod" *wink, wink* Finrod, who is a High Elf, and king, deserves a woman like himself; baeutiful, powerful, and wise, not a lowly plow maid that is only good for weaving and tending sheep. Thank you.;) :p

Now, back to Fingon.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Finrod, who is a High Elf, and king, deserves a woman like himself; baeutiful, powerful, and wise, not a lowly plow maid that is only good for weaving and tending sheep. Thank you.;) :p

Now, back to Fingon.
*snifs SGH* then you better go take a bath, sweety. Smells like you've been shearing today. Wooo! *fans the air in SGH's general direction*
And you can have this Finrod. Mine (the real Finrod) awaits my return in Aman. *wink* ;) Have fun. lol! :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Eh boy! Some people just don't live in the real world.:rolleyes: :D

[Falagar]

Why do I get this feeling that everytime someone says "Let's get back on topic" in this discussion, something mysteriously happens, and suddenly Finrod is back on again? Finrod is sitting up there somewhere, "chanting a song of wizardry", I bet ;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yes, I'll bet so too.

Ruinel, SGH, BACK ON TOPIC!

[Ruinel]

*looks around in confusion* This isn't the real world? :confused:

A song of wizardry started by Sauron. The answer was Felagund's song of staying, resisting, battling against power, of secrets kept, strength like a tower, and trust unbroken, freedom, escape; of changing and shifting shape, of snares eluded, broken traps, the prison opening, the chain that snaps. And softly in the gloom they heard the birds singing afar in Nargothrond, the sighing of the Sea beyond, and the western world, on sand, on sand of pearls in Elvenland. *sigh*

Yes, we are off topic. She started it *points at SGH*.
And ahem "Finrod", no offense, but I only want the real thing. Sorry, sweety. ;)

Inderjit: your response, as you say is "pre-LotR Sil". Then shouldn't we keep our discussion to only what was finally decided for the story? There were so many changes before, it gets very confusing.

[Wayfarer]

There were so many changes before, it gets very confusing. Before- and after, Ruin. ;)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Before- and after, Ruin. ;)
Ack!!! You're right!!! ... head... hurts...ack!... too much... information...ack!... all at once....!

[Falagar]

A song of wizardry started by Sauron. The answer was Felagund's song of staying, resisting, battling against power, of secrets kept, strength like a tower, and trust unbroken, freedom, escape; of changing and shifting shape, of snares eluded, broken traps, the prison opening, the chain that snaps. And softly in the gloom they heard the birds singing afar in Nargothrond, the sighing of the Sea beyond, and the western world, on sand, on sand of pearls in Elvenland. *sigh*

Finrod certainly isn't playing any song of staying right now :p He's playing a song of Seducing ;)

No! I've started spamming myself! Must...get...out of...this...thread...

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Ruinel
*And you can have this Finrod. Mine (the real Finrod) awaits my return in Aman. *wink* ;) Have fun. lol! :D

Enhgh...I'll just take Amarie!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Enhgh...I'll just take Amarie! :(

[Earniel]

*pats SGH on the back* There, there. It's no big loss, you don't want this particular Finrod. He's got some Gollumy streaks in him, isn't it Finrollum? :D

:eek: OMG! Now I'm starting to spam too! :eek: Nooooo! *runs away screaming*

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Eärniel
:eek: OMG! Now I'm starting to spam too! :eek: Nooooo! *runs away screaming*
There's some sort of spell on this thread...

And it's probably all Ruinels fault ;)

[Radagast The Brown]

Ahmmmm.... what was the topic? :confused:

[Falagar]

Something about Fingon :p

[Radagast The Brown]

Really? wasn't it about Finrod? :confused:

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Falagar
There's some sort of spell on this thread...
And it's probably all Ruinels fault ;)
:eek: I know no fell spells or magic of Morgoth of which you speak, Falagar! :eek: And I would never use such treachery against my brethren, had I the knowledge even so. *whispers at Falagar* You are an Elf, yes? Nor would I make such fell deeds against those with whom I call 'friend.' I am true and honorable!! What hath Ruinel done to deserve such treatment? :(

[Wayfarer]

What hath Ruinel done to deserve such treatment? I don't know. But she needs to be punished anyway. Where's that whip?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I don't know. But she needs to be punished anyway. Where's that whip?
:eek: What's with you? Chains... now whips... one might think strange things of Wayfarer, if one did not know him better. ;)

And Radagast... Fingon. :D

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Ruinel
*whispers at Falagar* You are an Elf, yes?
Of course, just look at my avatar! ;)

[Wayfarer]

What's with you? Chains... now whips... one might think strange things of Wayfarer, if one did not know him better.

Au Contraire- one /would/ *know* strange things about me, if one knew me better.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera


EVERYONE knows that Fingon has the best hair in Arda. except maybe for Aegnor.

Galadriel had the best hair in Arda. Beautiful enough for the other Eldar to say that it had snared the light of the Two Trees.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Attalus
Galadriel had the best hair in Arda. Beautiful enough for the other Eldar to say that it had snared the light of the Two Trees. That's right Attalus, and next to her, Finrod had the best hair. Aegnor had weird hair.:)

[Artanis]

Galadriel had the best hair. But Fingolfin's eldest son wasn't named Findekáno for nothing. Findaráto and Aikanáro was most fitting also, for sure. :D

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
:(

Sorry, i was just fed up, I won't divorce you...I promise.

Originally posted by Eärniel
*pats SGH on the back* There, there. It's no big loss, you don't want this particular Finrod. He's got some Gollumy streaks in him, isn't it Finrollum? :D

:eek: OMG! Now I'm starting to spam too! :eek: Nooooo! *runs away screaming*


Shhhhhh...rollum, rollum , it's not our fault, nasts TLAs stole the precious cell phoneses.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Sorry, i was just fed up, I won't divorce you...I promise.
*sits back and smiles with satisfaction* Ah, yes, another match made in Valinor. ;)

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Ruinel
*sits back and smiles with satisfaction* Ah, yes, another match made in Valinor. ;) Didn't you want Finrod? And do Finrod has two wives now? Who does he like more - Amarie or SGH? :confused:

[Sister Golden Hair]

I believe this thread is about Fingon.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Didn't you want Finrod? And do Finrod has two wives now? Who does he like more - Amarie or SGH? :confused:
It's ok... this Finrod is not the real Finrod. So, I'm throwing him over to SGH. Do you honestly think that I'd give up the real thing?

[Sister Golden Hair]

On topic.

[Wayfarer]

It's ok... this Finrod is not the real Finrod. So, I'm throwing him over to SGH. Do you honestly think that I'd give up the real thing? In order to give something up, you must first possess it.

As for Fingon... Who's he again? *sly wink* someone needs to tell me about him.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
In order to give something up, you must first possess it.
o.O (must stay on topic...will not comment, although the urge is quite strong.)

Originally posted by Wayfarer
As for Fingon... Who's he again? *sly wink* someone needs to tell me about him.
I'm not sure, I forgot?

LOL!! Ok, that will satisfy me... LOL!

[Artanis]

I'll repeat what was said about Fingon's hair at the first page of this thread:In the case of Fingon it was suitable; he wore his long dark hair in great plaits braided with gold. That one quite turned me on. :D Give me the guy with that hair!
I'll leave the rest of you to fight over Finrod.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Artanis
I'll repeat what was said about Fingon's hair at the first page of this thread:That one quite turned me on. :D Give me the guy with that hair!
I'll leave the rest of you to fight over Finrod. Well, next to Finrod, I loved Fingon the best. He was just so cool.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Ruinel
It's ok... this Finrod is not the real Finrod. So, I'm throwing him over to SGH. Do you honestly think that I'd give up the real thing? ammm... no? But FF didn't admit he's not the real FF.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
ammm... no? But FF didn't admit he's not the real FF.
No, he didn't admit it... as a matter of fact he's masquerading as the real Finrod. However, of all people, I would know if he was real or not. Hence, my tossing him over to SGH... no loss for me. ;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Actually she's tossing the real FF over for Jonathan.:D

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Actually she's tossing the real FF over for Jonathan.:D
HA! In your dreams. I've got my fist clenched tightly around Finrod and I'm not letting go. *hiss*

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yeah right. All anyone has to do is go to GMs and look at the "we love Coney" thread to find out the truth.:rolleyes:

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yeah right. All anyone has to do is go to GMs and look at the "we love Coney" thread to find out the truth.:rolleyes: :eek:

[Finrod Felagund]

Fingon I would have to say was my favourite cousin. :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Fingon I would have to say was my favourite cousin. :D Oh? I thought that you and Turgon were best friends.:confused:

[Finrod Felagund]

Yes, well, Fingon was my second favourite cousin...after Turgon! I just left that as a given, since turgon was more of a brother to me.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Yes, well, Fingon was my second favourite cousin...after Turgon! I just left that as a given, since turgon was more of a brother to me.
:rolleyes: whatever. :rolleyes:

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Yes, well, Fingon was my second favourite cousin...after Turgon! I just left that as a given, since turgon was more of a brother to me.
Jealous because his realm lasted longer than yours?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Falagar
Jealouse because his realm lasted longer than yours? Give me a break. Finrod didn't live to see either realm fall.:p

[Finrod Felagund]

Yeah...I was busy GIVING MY LIFE FOR BEREN!

And it's spelled jealous. THERE'S NO E

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Yeah...I was busy GIVING MY LIFE FOR BEREN!

And it's spelled jealous. THERE'S NO E
Now, why were you doing that? :p

English is not my native language, so please accept my apology.

[Sween]

Ill never forget fingon i have him in my fill o fax. He allways gets an X mas card more than can be said for that araorogant uncle of his

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
And it's spelled jealous. THERE'S NO E
Quildellë! Pahta ná manen ven i náva (of) vernonya! hahaahhaha!!!

[Radagast The Brown]

FF, there is an 'e' in jealous. See: jealous.

Ruinel, I didn't understand. I'm convinced it's because you wrote in Elvish...

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
FF, there is an 'e' in jealous. See: jealous.

Ruinel, I didn't understand. I'm convinced it's because you wrote in Elvish...

know but Falagar spelled it jealouse

Sorry Falagar, didn't mean to offend you!

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
know but Falagar spelled it jealouse

Sorry Falagar, didn't mean to offend you!
No offence taken, it's just the way I write ;)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Ruinel, I didn't understand. I'm convinced it's because you wrote in Elvish...

Well, if Finrod Felagund was the real Finrod, then he would know what I said. Obviously, he does not know. So, I will translate it for you.

In a nutshell, 'Quildellë! Pahta ná manen ven i náva (of) vernonya! hahaahhaha!!!' means...

For him to be silent {you hush}, and that I like my husband to keep his mouth shut {close/shut is how I like the mouth of my husband}.

Then of course, lots of laughter follows something like that.

[Falagar]

Just wanted to comment:

've' means "like" in the sense of "as", "it looks like"; "like" as in "wish", "want" is mer- :)

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Falagar
Just wanted to comment:

've' means "like" in the sense of "as", "it looks like"; "like" as in "wish", "want" is mer- :)
yes, you are right. I couldn't recall the word I wanted at the time. I found the stem mer- later but forgot to edit my post. Oh, well....
:D The message was not lost because no one translated it. :D

So then...
'Quildellë! Pahta ná manen merinya i náva (of) vernonya! hahaahhaha!!!'

[Radagast The Brown]

I find Falagar's post very confusing....

Ruinel, now I understand! You should've write that from the beginning. And now I understand what you said to FF, which is not really FF, just an imitation.

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Well, if Finrod Felagund was the real Finrod, then he would know what I said. Obviously, he does not know. So, I will translate it for you.

In a nutshell, 'Quildellë! Pahta ná manen ven i náva (of) vernonya! hahaahhaha!!!' means...

For him to be silent {you hush}, and that I like my husband to keep his mouth shut {close/shut is how I like the mouth of my husband}.

Then of course, lots of laughter follows something like that.


Ahem, of course I knew what it meant. But it's none of their business dear. Oh yeah, you'll see that there's a fourth in the Finrod love circle. (See "Most Wanted Mooters" in GM)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, I think that this thread has drifted off topic again and it just doesn't seem as though anyone has anything else to say about Fingon.

Closing.