Moria Mystery

[Niffiwan]

-<NOTE do not read if you haven't read The Two Towers>-

Well, there are several things about Moria which are mysterious (or I'm simply confused about), but anyway here are my questions:

1. That narrow bridge on which Gandalf fell seems to be carved out of the rock; but then doesn't that mean that the dwarves created the chasm also?

2. If the dwarves did create the chasm, how come Gimli says that "it has never been measured" and is not sure if it has a bottom?

3. Gandalf mentions that that dark pool that he fell into is part of Moria's foundations, and he later mentions that he found the Endless stair around the same level. But that must mean that the dwarves had been down there, since they made the stair.

4. If the dwarves were down there, why didn't they meet any of the "other things, gnawing on the bottom of the world" that are older than Sauron before they met the Balrog?

5. Are there any other references to that place where Gandalf fell to and those "things" that he described?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

[bmilder]

Maybe the "things" made the stair, and the chasm was already there...

[easterlinge]

The chasm was already there, I think, and the Bridge was originally a natural rock formation, like that sandstone Rainbow Bridge in Utah.

The Endless Stair didn't go all the way down I think. The Balrog went through many passages upwards before finding the stair. Or that is my impression of it.

What I'd like to know is how the heck the Dwarves are going to retake Moria? Gandalf broke the Bridge and the West-Gate is sealed by landslide (or so I think). How are dwarves going to get in?

[Finduilas]

The Dwarves could have been down to that depth in other areas, and the two areas connected by natural caves.

As to the Bridge, it could have started as a natural formation, or been built by the dwarves.

There was still the East Gate.

[Xivigg]

The western doorway can be cleaned and reopen it'll take time but it's easily done

as for the eastern door and the chasm they could build a bridge to replace the broken one
harder but i think i read somewere that dwarven are very good ingeneer

[Inoldonil]

1)No, it does not mean they made the chasm. It simply means there was a chasm and they built a bridge over it, as easterlinge half-said.

2)The Dwarves did not make the chasm (I think it very unlikely), but even if they did they would not be obligated to measure it.

3)The fact that they had ever been down there does not mean that they came down by way of the chasm, or that they measured it. Gimli knows his people had been down there before because he says that it (the Stair) had long been thought lossed. Probably in the very early days it was built, when Durin The Deathless reighned

4)The things may not have been down there at the time, but it is probable that they did meet them. There is an extremely large gap of time between Durin I and Durin VI. Over three-thousand years lie there. An old King may have roused the ancient things and been killed by them. We don't know how any of the old Kings died, between Durin I and Durin VI. They may have roused the nameless things, and fled to the higher levels and so lossed the Stair.

5)Unfortunately not. But it may be important to note that the only other enigmas that are supposed to be in the world before Sauron are Tom Bombadil and the spirit of Caradhras, or it may not be.

easterlinge, they did build the bridge, Gimli says so just before they step onto it. As for your question, there is an East-gate, as Finduilas said. There was probably a third way out, or else something was hastily put over the chasm, for the Orcs of Moria issue from the mountains somehow, seeking revenge, and ended up with Ugluk's band.

[easterlinge]

Let's see now.... the Bridge connected the Second Hall with the First hall which leads outside, presumably through the East Gate.... or did the Fellowship not go through the East Gate? I assumed it was the East Gate.

Breaking the Bridge disconnects the First Hall from the Second, and prevents entrance/exit to/from Moria. But the Orcs probably dug another tunnel out if there wasn't one already.

Yep, I noticed that the Fellowship went into Lorien pursued by Moria-Orcs. I wondered how the Orcs got out so fast when the bridge was gone. "Perhaps they sprouted wings and flew off into the trees," as Legolas said wondering how Merry and Pippin escaped. I think there was another passage tunnel, the Orcs couldn't have built another bridge so quickly.

[Spock1]

I feel the chasam was natural as was the bridge. The stairway was build by what ever dwelt there long before the dwarves found the mines. That's what's eerie about the whole place. It seems to have much more that is secret than that which is known.

[Inoldonil]

'The outer door could only be reached by a slender bridge of stone, without kerb or rail, that spanned the chasm with one curving spring of fifty feet. It was an ancient defence of the Dwarves against any enemy that might capture the First Hall and the outer passages.'

This seems to me to imply they made the bridge. If they did not make the Stair, than they used it, that much is certain from Gimli's words in The Treason of Isengard. It may have been a naturally made stair.

[Niffiwan]

I seriously doubt that it was naturally-made stair.

[Inoldonil]

It's possible, and probably much more probable at any rate than a dwarf-made immeasurably deep chasm.

[Niffiwan]

I think that a naturally-made that's that deep and also possible to climb is a lot more unlikely; if nature formed it, it would have made a chasm not a stair.