??? Son of Aragorn...

[ugluk great]

Who was the son of Aragorn. I really need it. Didn't find it in the appendixes. If someone knows, plz tell me!

[bmilder]

Aragorn Jr? :lol:

[Perisil]

Youll find it in the Appendices under the tale of Arwen and Aragorn, his name was Eldarion.

[ugluk great]

yeah, i found that too... in the guide.

[Inoldonil]

Robert Foster's guide? A good guide in many respects, but outdated. But doesn't Foster have Eldaron instead of Eldarion? As they both share the same app. meaning it hardly matters, but Eldarion is the correct spelling (the way it was spelled in Appendix A)

[cian]

My (Foster) edition has Eldarion with meaning "of the Eldar".

However, Imo, the meaning is more likely either "Eldar-son", this possibly combining a plural form with the patronymic suffix ~ion "son of" ... or perhaps "Elda-prince" using a singular form ("prince" actually "crowned one" with a masculine denotation) from hypothetical *Eledá-rigondo.

[Inoldonil]

If you say so! :) They ought to be giving you the linguistic questions, not me.

'ion' also means 'scion', Ereinion translated as 'scion of kings'.

[cian]

Quite correct Inoldonil regarding Sindarin Ereinion ~ shows a related sense, "scion" generaly meaning "descendant, child". We also see related senses when comparing " biological" patronymic "Finwion" with example Falassion ~ certainly the meaning in the latter is not literally biological "son of a coast", but more generally "son of" as (perhaps) "one devoted to X" or similar. Cheers~

:)

[Earendilyon]

And also -yon, as in Earendilyon: descendent of Earendil, or: son of E. (in a wider sense; said of all mariners and wanderers (see HoME II)).

[Snowdog]

And there were how many daughters? I need to re-read all this again. And did the daughters have any names? I know there was reference to a few.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I remember something about many daughters, but I don't recall them being named. I'll have to check again. . .

[Ñólendil]

All it says is "daughters". There could have been two or fourteen, it's not known (or at least it is not said in the Appendices).

[Starr Polish]

Was Eldarion Aragorn's first child?

[Ñólendil]

That is not known (or it is not known to me). If the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor were going by the Númenorean laws, Eldarion would have to be the eldest child in order to succeed his father. But I don't think it's certain they were following that law (I'd like to think so, passing by an elder daughter just seems so unfair, doesn't it?).

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
(I'd like to think so, passing by an elder daughter just seems so unfair, doesn't it?).

Yes, it does seem unfair :)

I thought I remembered something about the names or number or something of his daughters. I think I'll look at that again. . .

[Starr Polish]

It only says 'many daughters', I think.

It may seem unfair, but you have to look back on your history. The French, at least as far as my knowledge goes, never allowed a Queen, or female child, to rule, regardless of whether they were born first. If there happened to be no male heirs, cousins, second cousins, and other distant relatives were called upon.

In England, Henry VIII's oldest child was Mary, then Elizabeth, then Edward (we'll leave out Fitzroy, who was, born out of wedlock...I'll not mention the name used for those type of children here). Yet, Edward ruled first after Henry's death.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Unlike customs in the real world, and customs among the Noldor, women of the royal line of the Numenorions were permitted to rule.

[Starr Polish]

But were men favored as rulers over women? I'm not trying to argue, I'm just interested.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

You'd think they would follow Numenorean law. And I would add, especially seeing as it is more fair (*cough*) although it was not common practice, among the Noldor and the real world. But they probably weren't thinking about that. . .

[Elvellon]

It is known that after Tar-Aldarion (the Sailor, a king of Numenor) made his law of royal succession, the eldest child of the king inherited the throne. Female heirs could abdicate of their rights but male heirs couldn’t (if I remember it right).
In Middle Earth the tradition was different, only male descendents of the kings could inherit the throne. It is possible that king Elessar reverted to the Numenorian tradition, but I believe it is more likely that the Middle Earth tradition was retained (or perhaps Eldarion was the eldest descendent of the king and therefore there never was a reason to consider one tradition over another).

[Starr Polish]

Well, since none of the names of the daughters are ever mentioned, I can assume one of two things

1) He was the eldest and inherited the throne, thus the only 'important' child of Arwen and Aragorn, or

2) The daughters, regardless of age, were not considered important and the first son became the heir to the throne.

[Michael Martinez]

Eldarion would have succeeded Aragorn under Arnorian/Gondorian law, which did not allow for Ruling Queens, as in Numenor. Hence, his place in birth succession with respect to his sisters was irrelevant.

There were probably no more than 2 or 3 daughters. Arwen is unlikely to have had many more children than that.

[Ñólendil]

You mean because of her Elven blood?

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
You mean because of her Elven blood?

Yes. But then, Aragorn's family wasn't exactly known for having lots of children, either.

[Willow Oran]

Speaking of Aragorn's children, is it possible that some of them might have chosen immortality? They would have been half elves so it would make sense for them to have the same choice that was given to their mother, uncles, grandfather etc.

[Mirahzi]

I think the choice was only given to a few of the half-elves.. I don't think Dior was given a choice. Also, the mothers, uncles, and grandfathers (on Aragorn's side) of the children of Aragorn were not given the choice of race.

[Willow Oran]

Yes, but the people on Aragorn's side of the family weren't half elves. They were humans wih half elvish blood. Aragorn and Arwen's children are about as half elvish as you can get. Also the choice thing doesn't seem to come into the story until after the two halfelven lines were joined, which is also happening with A&A
so it would make sense for their childen to have the choice. And it never does say what happened to all those daughters, one of them might have chosen to be elvish and gone west. It's possible.

[Menelvagor]

Hm... but would it matter that Arwen chose to be a mortal before having children? Technically, I suppose she wasn't an elf anymore.

[Ñólendil]

Yet Lúthien also chose to become mortal, and yet her son was accounted the first of the Half-elven. This doesn't necessarily mean that the same thing would happen with Arwen's children though. I think the difference between the First and Third Ages ought to be analyzed.

[Christiana]

There were female Noldor rulers-Galdriel,4 1.

[Menelvagor]

Yet Lúthien also chose to become mortal, and yet her son was accounted thefirst of the Half-elven. This doesn't necessarily mean that the same thing wouldhappen with Arwen's children though. I think the difference between the First and Third Ages ought to be analyzed.

Yeah, I though about tht right after I posted. :rolleyes: (I'm literally psyched out right now, AP psych exam on Friday:eek: ) Was Dior given a choice?

[Christiana]

well,he was slain,so i dont thenk it mattered much.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Christiana
well,he was slain,so i dont thenk it mattered much. It doesn't matter if he was slain or not. Dior was not given the choice, because he was born after Luthien was released from Mandos and returned from the dead with Beren to Middle-earth which at that point, they were both mortal.

[Ñólendil]

The first people to receive choices, which is to say: the first Half-elves to receive choices, were Eärendil (the second ever Half-elf, son of Tuor and Idril Celebrindal) and Elwing (daughter of Nimloth niece of Celeborn and Dior, son of Beren and Lúthien). The second pair of choices, so to speak, were given to Elros and Elrond, the children of Eärendil and Elwing.