Maedhros' torment

[Artanis]

I've been thinking of Maedhros lately. When Fingon arrives to rescue him from Thangorodrim, he begs twice to be slain, because he is "in anguish without hope". But we know that the Elves had the power to die by will, that is, to release their spirit from their body. Miriel once did. Why could not Maedhros do the same thing, if he really desired it? Is it only weariness and grief that justifies a wish to die, and not physical pain?

Thoughts, anyone?

[Laurus Nobilis]

That's an interesting question.

I think the death of the Elves is more like a 'death of the soul'; they probably "die", as you said, because of grief and not because of physical pain. I'm not sure it's ever stated in the books, though.

[markedel]

It depends where the source of the chapter is-the Silmarillion is not always based on the latest versions of the ME legenderium, that may explain the contradiction.

[Rían]

I wondered about Maedhros too, Artanis, and I wondered if perhaps there must be a 'receiving' of the wish to die on the Valar end of things in order for it to take place - IOW, Maedhros wished to die, and maybe 'tried' to die, but the attempt was denied.... does that make sense?

I think it was in one of my favorites, Morgoth's Ring, where it's talking about the voluntary dying - in the section about marriage customs, and how elves are naturally monogamous, and if they were raped, the victim would choose to give up their life because of the grief; do you remember that?

Aha, here it is - in the Notes after The Later Quenta Silmarillion II - from note 5
But among all these evils there is no record of any among the Elves that took another's spouse by force; for this was wholly against their nature, and one so forced would have rejected bodily life and passed to Mandos. Guile or trickery in this matter was scarcely possible (even if it could be thought that any Elf would purpose to use it); for the Eldar can read at once in the eyes and voice of another whether they be wed or unwed.
And it says that Elves may be slain or waste away from grief. Maedhros' suffering was more physical pain, and not grief as much, perhaps?? (altho there was certainly grief!) I don't know, but I've wondered too. But as I said, perhaps there would have to be an acceptance of the wish to die.

Good question, Artanis!

[Artanis]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I wondered about Maedhros too, Artanis, and I wondered if perhaps there must be a 'receiving' of the wish to die on the Valar end of things in order for it to take place - IOW, Maedhros wished to die, and maybe 'tried' to die, but the attempt was denied.... does that make sense? It makes good sense, I thought exactly the same thing. Either the Elves have this ability to die by wish, for any reason, or they must plead to the Valar, or maybe to Mandos alone, in order to get permission and to be 'recieved'. But from the quote that you give, it sounds like it is really up to each individual, to 'reject bodily life'. When I read about Miriel I also had the feeling that she did not have to ask for permission to die, though there was a problem about her staying separated from her body, because the nature of the Elves' rhöa and fëa was to be together. It was not her death that was important, but her wish not to become incarnate again.

markedel, do you have any examples from the later part of the legendarium that may explain this better?

[Elanor Gamgee]

Originally posted by Artanis
I've been thinking of Maedhros lately. When Fingon arrives to rescue him from Thangorodrim, he begs twice to be slain, because he is "in anguish without hope". But we know that the Elves had the power to die by will, that is, to release their spirit from their body. Miriel once did. Why could not Maedhros do the same thing, if he really desired it? Is it only weariness and grief that justifies a wish to die, and not physical pain?
Thoughts, anyone?
I wonder if this could help. The quote is from Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, Author's Note 5 (HoME X); emphasis mine.
... the Elves could die, and did die, by their will; as for example because of great grief or bereavement, or because of the frustration of their dominant desires and purposes. This wilful death was not regarded as wicked, but it was a fault implying some defect or taint in the fea, and those who came to Mandos by this means might be refused further incarnate life.
So, I believe for Maedhros it was a great difference whether to accept death from another (as a mercy given by a friend to escape pain and torment), or whether to die by his own will (which would be fainthearted). IMHO someone as strong and proud as Maedhros would not choose "humiliating" mode of death.
As for Miriel, her death became indeed wicked since she so stubbornly refused to return to incarnate life. Actually, that was her refusal that became the cause of much doubt and grief to Finwe and Feanor, to the Valar and ultimately to almost all the Elves.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Elanor Gamgee
So, I believe for Maedhros it was a great difference whether to accept death from another (as a mercy given by a friend to escape pain and torment), or whether to die by his own will (which would be fainthearted). IMHO someone as strong and proud as Maedhros would not choose "humiliating" mode of death. I understand what you're saying, but it is not wholly satisfying. Maedhros desired to die, and I find it unnatural that the means of his death should make a difference to whether it should be considered fainthearted or not, or 'rightful' or not. If Fingon had slain him, it would be because he, Maedhros, desired it. I would agree it had made a difference if Maedhros had not begged to be slain, but he did.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

According to the 'Grey-annals' (HoME 11) Maedhros's torment lasted two Valinorean years plus 5 years of the sun-which equates to about 23-24 years of the sun -wouldn't you want to die? Maybe his hopes had been lifted by the arrival of Fingolfin's host to M-E?

[markedel]

Well we know that much of the story after the death of Turin (especially the ruin of Doriath) is based on either older writings not entirely in syn with the newer versions of the mythology, and often edited together by Christopher Tolkien. I haven't read much of (and don't own) HoME so I never saw the original text source for the capture and rescue of Maedhros. It may have been laws and customs of the eldar came after this piece, and the text itself was left unchanged (for whatever reason) and CT, either because of lack of access at the time, or in the interests of creating a coherant narrative left it, knowing the compliacation, but also knowing similar things exist throughtout the work.

He puts it himself-internally these can be treated as variations on a tradition of myths, invariably changed over time (or there are errors in translation-though this is not as internalized as in LOTR), while externally these are the result of having to stitch together multiple sources, written over different periods of time, and having to be edited for continuity and coherance. I used the external explanation to explain such a contradiction, rather then try to eliminate it.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Artanis
I understand what you're saying, but it is not wholly satisfying. Maedhros desired to die, and I find it unnatural that the means of his death should make a difference to whether it should be considered fainthearted or not, or 'rightful' or not. If Fingon had slain him, it would be because he, Maedhros, desired it. I would agree it had made a difference if Maedhros had not begged to be slain, but he did.

Perhaps he considered dying through will as giving in to Morgoth. Maedhros was a warrior, so I suppose that if he had the chance of dying by a weapon, he would prefer that above willing himself to die. If Finrod slew him Maedhros would have been 'defeated' by Finrod and not by Morgoth. I suppose that left him with more dignity.

It's also possible that Maedhros choose to endure the torment instead of escaping through death. Perhaps the thought of wiling himself to death never arose in his mind before Finrod turned up. The coming of Finrod might have been a chance of a dignified ending because he had no hope of ever being cut loose.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Perhaps he considered dying through will as giving in to Morgoth. Maedhros was a warrior, so I suppose that if he had the chance of dying by a weapon, he would prefer that above willing himself to die. If Finrod slew him Maedhros would have been 'defeated' by Finrod and not by Morgoth. I suppose that left him with more dignity.So basicly what you and Elanor Gamgee is saying, is that it was his pride that hindered him to die on his own. Do you think then, that Maedhros' death, if he had been slain by Fingon, would not imply a defect or a taint in his fëa? Would you consider it a 'wilful death'?

I think it's unlikely that he had not thought of the possibility of dying, a long time before Fingon arrived. He had a lot of time to think, you might say ;) But he may have rejected the idea for the reasons already stated.
Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
According to the 'Grey-annals' (HoME 11) Maedhros's torment lasted two Valinorean years plus 5 years of the sun-which equates to about 23-24 years of the sun -wouldn't you want to die? OMG, 24 years! Yes, I would definately want to die. Maedhros' death-wish is indeed understandable.

markedel, I have all of HoME, I guess I have some reading to do :D So, using the external view, would you consider the latest source to be most 'valid', even if it is not in line with most of what is written before? I don't remember exactly when "Laws and customs" was written, but I think it was rather late.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Perhaps he considered dying through will as giving in to Morgoth. Maedhros was a warrior, so I suppose that if he had the chance of dying by a weapon, he would prefer that above willing himself to die. If Finrod slew him Maedhros would have been 'defeated' by Finrod and not by Morgoth. I suppose that left him with more dignity.

It's also possible that Maedhros choose to endure the torment instead of escaping through death. Perhaps the thought of wiling himself to death never arose in his mind before Finrod turned up. The coming of Finrod might have been a chance of a dignified ending because he had no hope of ever being cut loose.

In many cultures (not of ME) taking your own life is considered a weakness or being selfish without the thought to consequences of your actions on others. If Maedhros was suffering physically he should have to endure it until he escaped or was rescued. I could be that Tolkien considered this also. If Maedhros was suffering from the heart (in grief) and he died of this grief, that is another story (say to follow his love to Mandos and not be separated, for example). Maedhros asking to be slain by Fingon was asking for mercy.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Artanis
So basicly what you and Elanor Gamgee is saying, is that it was his pride that hindered him to die on his own. Do you think then, that Maedhros' death, if he had been slain by Fingon, would not imply a defect or a taint in his fëa? Would you consider it a 'wilful death'?

Yes, I think in a way Maedhros was too proud to give in and take the 'easy' way out. He had already gone such a long and hard road to furfill his vow. Maedhros doesn't strike me as the type that would give in in any situation. Even when the Valar came in to conquer Morgoth at last and throw him out of the Walls of the World, Maedhros refused to relinquish the silmarils. In the end he cast himself in the fires rather than submit to the decision of the Valar. Maedhros (no offense to the poster here with the same name ;)) seemingly just didn't know when to quit. The stubborn fool.

I haven't gotten further than the BoLT's :o so I'm not entirely sure what the taint in his fëa would imply. Fëa is soul, right? Does it mean that his pride for not wanting to die on his own was unelfish?


I think it's unlikely that he had not thought of the possibility of dying, a long time before Fingon arrived. He had a lot of time to think, you might say ;) But he may have rejected the idea for the reasons already stated.
OMG, 24 years! Yes, I would definately want to die. Maedhros' death-wish is indeed understandable.

When I said the though might never have arisen in his mind, I may have put it a bit too extreme. (That's what you get from listening and singing with music while posting, you can't focus enough on serious discussions. Bad bad Eärniel! :rolleyes: ) Right now I'm thinking more along the lines that he thought about it but didn't consider it an viable option. 24 years is long but I wonder how an Elf would see it. I mean 24 years is longer than I walked this earth :eek: , but Elves reckon not in years but in yén (144 years I believe). Would his torment have lasted as long as it would have for us humans? I doubt it.

[Ruinel]

I got the distinct impression that Maedhros was a very willful and stubborn Elf. I think giving in to death would have hurt his pride. Like saying, Morgoth got the better of me. But asking his Fingon, his cousin and friend, for mercy was not the same thing.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Maedhros doesn't strike me as the type that would give in in any situation. Even when the Valar came in to conquer Morgoth at last and throw him out of the Walls of the World, Maedhros refused to relinquish the silmarils. In the end he cast himself in the fires rather than submit to the decision of the Valar.Well I think his actions regarding the Silmarils were determined from the terrible oath he had sworn. He was unable to break that oath, even if he had wanted to give in. But I agree he was not the type to let himself be conquered in any way.

I haven't gotten further than the BoLT's :o so I'm not entirely sure what the taint in his fëa would imply. Fëa is soul, right? Does it mean that his pride for not wanting to die on his own was unelfish?Yes, fëa is spirit, and rhöa is body. I was referring to the quote that Elanor Gamgee gave, from the notes to "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth". I'm repeating it here: ... the Elves could die, and did die, by their will; as for example because of great grief or bereavement, or because of the frustration of their dominant desires and purposes. This wilful death was not regarded as wicked, but it was a fault implying some defect or taint in the fea, and those who came to Mandos by this means might be refused further incarnate life. The nature of the fëa and the rhöa of the Elves was to be together from birth until the world's end. That is why a wish for death, that is, a separation of the fëa and the rhöa, was considered unnatural, and caused by a taint. And that's why I think the will to die is significant here, and not the means by how it should happen.
Would his torment have lasted as long as it would have for us humans? I doubt it. You've got a point there.
(That's what you get from listening and singing with music while posting, you can't focus enough on serious discussions. Bad bad Eärniel! :rolleyes: ) :p

[Rían]

Originally posted by Elanor Gamgee
So, I believe for Maedhros it was a great difference whether to accept death from another (as a mercy given by a friend to escape pain and torment), or whether to die by his own will (which would be fainthearted). IMHO someone as strong and proud as Maedhros would not choose "humiliating" mode of death.

That's a good point, Elanor. Your way of looking at it makes sense to me.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I got the distinct impression that Maedhros was a very willful and stubborn Elf. I think giving in to death would have hurt his pride. Like saying, Morgoth got the better of me. But asking his Fingon, his cousin and friend, for mercy was not the same thing. But he did not know that Fingon would eventually be there so he could ask him for mercy. The reality was, no one knew where he was, and very few dared to go that close to Morgoth's dwellings anyway, and he was hung high up in an unreachable place, save by birds. What hope could he have had to be released, except by death of own will? Still he must have kept such hope, if he would prefer to be slain.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Artanis
Still he must have kept such hope, if he would prefer to be slain.

You certainly got a good point. I hadn't seen it that way yet. But such a gloomy hope that must have been. Just imagine being in his position.... with the only hope you have is that someone one day can kill you. *shivers* A grisly prospect and a very cruel torment that Morgoth devised.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Artanis
But he did not know that Fingon would eventually be there so he could ask him for mercy. The reality was, no one knew where he was, and very few dared to go that close to Morgoth's dwellings anyway, and he was hung high up in an unreachable place, save by birds. What hope could he have had to be released, except by death of own will? Still he must have kept such hope, if he would prefer to be slain.

Maybe hope, or maybe he had run out of choices.

Choice #1: hang on wall by wrist until wrist falls off and I fall to death.
Choice #2: hang on wall by wrist until someone comes by on a big eagle and kills me, releasing me from this misery.
Choice #3: hang on wall by wrist until end of the world.
Choice #4: hang on wall by wrist until Morgoth decides that he's had his fun and kills me or torchures me or both.
Choice #5: humiliate myself by deliberately taking my own life, thus admitting that Morgoth got the better of me and that I wasn't stong enough in mind or body.
Choice #6: choice #2 but with a twist... what if they could save me? hmmm... nope.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The Sil says that Maedhros heard the Elves as they beat upon the gates of Angband, and he cried out for help, but his cries were drowned in the vastness of the rock. What I am wondering is, why didn't Maedhros say a prayer to Iluvatar or Manwe for some kind of aid? Why did it wait until Fingon did it?

[afro-elf]

why didn't Maedhros say a prayer to Iluvatar or Manwe for some kind of aid? Why did it wait until Fingon did it?

Would that have violated the Oath of Feanor somehow.

to Artanis
Being slain by a friend is often part of the Warrior ethic

[Artanis]

Originally posted by afro-elf
to Artanis
Being slain by a friend is often part of the Warrior ethic So you think this is not considered as a 'wilful death' by the Valar, and so do not imply a fault in Maedhros' spirit?
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
What I am wondering is, why didn't Maedhros say a prayer to Iluvatar or Manwe for some kind of aid? Well, if he really was prideful, he would not ask the Valar for any aid. He had sworn an oath against their will, and was banned. Much easier then for Fingon to plea to the Valar, also because the help he asked for was not for himself.

[Noahamir]

I could think of two reasons why he asked to be killed rather than do it himself.

1.) The Oath - In Middle-Earth it seemed like Oaths had a strong power that could not be broken once given. They overrode the Free Will of the Taker and they were bound magically by there words beyond there control. Even if Meadros had despaired and desired to give up his spirit, his Oath forbid him on giving up his quest to regain the Silmarills and therefore breaking it. (He therefore needed Fingon, a non-oath taker to kill him.)

2.) The simplist is that Elves have to 100% want to die to give up there spirit, but there was still some small subconcious spark inside of Meadros that still wanted to live. (Otherwise Elves would be keeling over all the time when ever they had brief suicidal thoughts.)

[Earniel]

The simplist is that Elves have to 100% want to die to give up there spirit, but there was still some small subconcious spark inside of Meadros that still wanted to live.
A good point. :)


Otherwise Elves would be keeling over all the time when ever they had brief suicidal thoughts. LOL! Odd mental picture. Very monty python.:D

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
What I am wondering is, why didn't Maedhros say a prayer to Iluvatar or Manwe for some kind of aid? Why did it wait until Fingon did it?

He was an Exile, and he was very prideful.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
He was an Exile, and he was very prideful. Fingon was an Exile also. I think it's most likely because of the Oath of Feanor.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Fingon was an Exile also. I think it's most likely because of the Oath of Feanor.

:confused: Why would it matter if Fingon was an Exile also?:confused:

The Oath is part of the whole pride thing I was talking about. And he is not going to ask Manwe for help when he was locked out of Valinor with his kin. That just wouldn't be his style.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
:confused: Why would it matter if Fingon was an Exile also?:confused:

The Oath is part of the whole pride thing I was talking about. And he is not going to ask Manwe for help when he was locked out of Valinor with his kin. That just wouldn't be his style. What I was saying is that being one of the Exiles had nothing to do with it. I believe that Maedhros was unwilling to ask the Valar for aid, because of the Oath, but the fact is, that inspite of the Oath, Manwe sent aid to Maedhros and Fingon, after Fingon's prayer. So the Valar inspite of the Oath never totally forsook the Exiled Noldor, including the sons of Feanor.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
What I was saying is that being one of the Exiles had nothing to do with it. I believe that Maedhros was unwilling to ask the Valar for aid, because of the Oath, but the fact is, that inspite of the Oath, Manwe sent aid to Maedhros and Fingon, after Fingon's prayer. So the Valar inspite of the Oath never totally forsook the Exiled Noldor, including the sons of Feanor.

:eek: Oh! I see what you're saying. :) Makes sense now.

But Fingon and Maedhros were different Elves. I always got the impression that Maedhros was above and beyond when it came to pride. That's why I said what I said before.

But you may feel different. ;)

[Maedhros]

I have to say that I agree with most of the posts about Maedhros pride and character.
I would like to note a difference between MÃ*riel and Maedhros. MÃ*riel's grief was only a matter of her fëa, while Maedhros pain was almost a thing of the hröa, though as time passed, it affected his fëa too. I just don't think that it ever ocurred to him to leave his hröa as MÃ*riel did.
There is also the Morgoth factor, he was purposely keeping him alive, I don't know if there is a way for Morgoth to deny such a fleeing of the hröa, but that is another possibility. Maedhros could have not given up, he gave his word, and he had to keep it to the end.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I just don't think that it ever ocurred to him to leave his hröa as MÃ*riel did.You mean it never occurred to him before Fingon came there?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I have to say that I agree with most of the posts about Maedhros pride and character.
I would like to note a difference between MÃ*riel and Maedhros. MÃ*riel's grief was only a matter of her fëa, while Maedhros pain was almost a thing of the hröa, though as time passed, it affected his fëa too. I just don't think that it ever ocurred to him to leave his hröa as MÃ*riel did.
There is also the Morgoth factor, he was purposely keeping him alive, I don't know if there is a way for Morgoth to deny such a fleeing of the hröa, but that is another possibility. Maedhros could have not given up, he gave his word, and he had to keep it to the end.

I think that leaving his body and therefore pain and suffering was definitly on his mind towards the end, by his own will ... no. I think that the oath, his pride and the unwillingness to allow Morgoth the pleasure of his defeat kept him from willing it so. If a friend took his life, that would be more honorable. He could keep his pride, and not give in to Morgoth. The oath would still stand without him to satisfy it, but he had brothers and kin that would take up that cause until he could be reborn (if the Silmarils still had not be recaptured by then). And surely, if Fingon had killed Maedhros that would have really pissed off Morgoth.

[Maedhros]

You mean it never occurred to him before Fingon came there?
Not like that I think.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ruinel
And surely, if Fingon had killed Maedhros that would have really pissed off Morgoth. That's a good point.

[afro-elf]

So you think this is not considered as a 'wilful death' by the Valar, and so do not imply a fault in Maedhros' spirit

Along certain warrior lines it would be that honorable way to go. It would be see as greatness in his spirit.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
Along certain warrior lines it would be that honorable way to go. It would be see as greatness in his spirit.

I see where you are going with this... yes.

BTW, what happened to your cute typing poem? I liked it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Noahamir
(Otherwise Elves would be keeling over all the time when ever they had brief suicidal thoughts.)

Little children must be saying 'I don't believe in Elves'. :( :( :(

[afro-elf]

BTW, what happened to your cute typing poem? I liked it.

A little too much levity in it. I like the somber.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
A little too much levity in it. I like the somber.

So, do both. After all, you don't really think I eat cats do you? Balance is the way to harmony. :D

[DARKastheRAIN]

[QUOTE=Elanor Gamgee;198882]... the Elves could die, and did die, by their will; as for example because of great grief or bereavement, or because of the frustration of their dominant desires and purposes. This wilful death was not regarded as wicked, but it was a fault implying some defect or taint in the fea, and those who came to Mandos by this means might be refused further incarnate life. QUOTE]

I thought I remembered that that quote was rejected by Tolkien and replaced with something else... maybe I'm remembering wrong


it would also bring up the question: why would Maedhros need to jump in a fiery to pit when he killed himself in the end if he could have just willingly dropped dead?

[DARKastheRAIN]

I always got the impression that Maedhros was above and beyond when it came to pride

which is why he begged his uncle for forgiveness for Helcaraxe, and willingly gave up the kingship of the Noldor :rolleyes:

[DARKastheRAIN]

What I am wondering is, why didn't Maedhros say a prayer to Iluvatar or Manwe for some kind of aid? Why did it wait until Fingon did it?

Maybe he didn't think the Valar would listen

Or maybe he did ask for help and they didn't listen. How many times did Turgon's people try to reach Valinor to ask for aid and got nothing but Osse telling them where to go before the sea mercilessly drowned them?

And I also never got the impression that the Manwe exactly directly told Thordondor to help Maedhros. I always figured that he was just there and when he heard Fingon pray to Manwe, he maybe saw it as some kind of sign that now was the moment to help. After all, if Thorondor had just pecked his hand off and flown him off to Mithrim by himself earlier on, there would be no great deed of Fingon the Valient to bring the Noldor back together. Eagles seem to have a thing about only helping at certain timing (if LotR and the Hobbit are any indication)

And furthermore, I'm not sure Manwe could actually have heard him anyway. For one thing Varda was the one with super hearing, Manwe had super sight. And if Manwe could just see and hear everything that went on all over Arda, why would he need Thorondor playing lookout for him?

For Manwe... ...had sent forth the race of Eagles, comanding them to dwell in the crags of the North, and to keep watch upon Morgoth... ...And the Eagles brought news of much that passed in those days to the sad ears of Manwe

I don't think that it was as simple as saying Manwe save me and you would magically get out of any bad situation.

And as for asking Iluvatar, I don't remember ever hearing of an Elf praying to Iluvatar. As we see at the end of the book, Maedhros at least seems to believe that there is no way for their "voices to reach to Iluvatar, beyong the circles of the world"

[DARKastheRAIN]

lol. I just realized that I just dragged up a really old long passed away post :D

I had forgotten that I found this in a topic search and it wasn't just sitting on top of the forum :)

[Cudna]

Maidros is a fallen elf. I don't believe he could have given up his life even if he had wanted to. He had taken the oath, been part of the slaying at Alqualonde and the burning of the ships at Losgar. He was to do much more in the years to come but we'll leave that aside for now.

The oath is very important. One of the corner stones of the Silmarillion. Maidros grief was almost entirely self inflicted. His fea was very hot, for lack of a better term. He was second only to Feanor himself in desire to see the oath fulfilled. He was also increasingly obsessed with physical means as a way to achieve this. It would have been quite impossible for him to voluntarily leave his body at that point.

Asking Fingon to slay him must have been simply nothing more than it seems to be. A way for him to try and end his torment. We may make an argument that he should have thought himself of getting his hand cut off, but how many of us would willingly consider such a thing as losing our own hand?

Maidros could not have voluntarily died at the end of the Silmarillion either, for much the same reasons. And doing so would mean the Silmarillion was still around. His oath binds him to keep the Silmarillion himself or keep it out of anyone elses hands forever. He chose to throw the gem into the fires of the earth. Then not bearing life without it he himself followed. That was not the main point of throwing himself into the chasm though. It was all about the gem.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I would like to comment on some of the earlier descriptions of Maedhros as prideful. I don't see how he is any more prideful than his brothers. In fact, other than Maglor, he seems less prideful than the other sons of Feanor, to me. He is bound by the oath, and that drives much of his behavior, but many times he tries to fulfill it while getting along with his fellow Noldor. He was the only one to oppose his father at the burning of the ships at Losgar, he repented of his father's deeds and submitted to Fingolfin's kingship, and he chastised his brothers for their strife with the sons of Finarfin.

For someone entrapped by the oath, I think Maedhros did his best to be honorable in a difficult situation.

[brownjenkins]

I'd have to agree. The only thing Maedhros is guilty of is loving his father.

[Elennár]

Hey, so this is my first post here, and I'm probably unburying a fairly old topic.
IMO, Maedhros although proud was never 'evil' or 'cruel'; not in the way that Fëanor or Curufin and Caranthir were.
In the end, I think he killed himself from extreme despair- everything that he had done, all the bad things, the slaying, the pain and labours were all for nothing- the Silmaril itself rejected him.

[Serenoli]

Perhaps the reason Maedhros asked Fingon to kill him was because choosing death while being hung up there would have signified defeat to Morgoth; whereas accepting death from a friend's hand would not have the same meaning.

Or perhaps he did not wish his body to be defiled by Morgoth after death - and seeing Fingon, he knew that at least in death he would be buried honourably.