Bilbo's Ring

[FrodoFriend]

In LotR, the Ring sharpens Frodo's senses as well as making him invisible. I didn't notice anything like this happening to Bilbo in The Hobbit. Does anyone know why? Just because JRR hadn't thought that part up yet, or perhaps because the Ring was rather 'dormant', not being in a 'serving Sauron' mood at the time?

It's always really funny to go back and read The Hobbit knowing that the Ring is evil, since there is really no indication of its nastier powers at all.

[mithrand1r]

FrodoFriend,


I have no explanation for difference of rings' effect in LOTR vs. The Hobbit.

One question I had why we do not see how the ring effects Bilbo in LOTR:FOTR.

Sincerely,
Anthony
:cool:

[Artanis]

FrodoFriend, you're asking about the sharpening of the senses, and not the invisibility, yes? I actually think Frodo's senses was enhanced only by possessing the Ring, so that he was able to feel the presence of the Ringwraiths. But that would be because the Ringwraiths were searching for him and the Ring, and calling on him to put the Ring on. Bilbo did not have the Ringwraiths around, and Sauron wasn't concerned about the Ring at that time.

And, Frodo's senses was enhanced towards the wraiths world when he wore the Ring, everything else became dim to him. That didn't happen to Bilbo. It could be that the Ringwraiths in some way was able to control Frodo's perception of the world when he put the Ring on. That's the only reasonable explanation I can come up with right now.

Of course JRRT wrote the Hobbit long before LotR, but he made a great effort in bringing LotR into line with the Hobbit.

[FrodoFriend]

I was thinking about Frodo being able to hear Gollum's footsteps and see in the dark in Moria extremely well . . . this effect doesn't seem to be mentioned in The Hobbit. On the other hand, it's perfectly possible that these enhancements did come about, but Bilbo didn't notice it, since he wasn't so aware of the strange powers of his Ring. He did, after all, do a pretty good job of burgling. So maybe he just didn't perceive the effects of the Ring on him.

[WallRocker]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
He did, after all, do a pretty good job of burgling. So maybe he just didn't perceive the effects of the Ring on him.

That''s what I would think. And I think it does say soemthing in 'the Hobbit' about Bilbo being able to be quieter and sneakier when he had the Ring on.

[Aranwe]

In LotR, the Ring sharpens Frodo's senses as well as making him invisible. I didn't notice anything like this happening to Bilbo in The Hobbit.

He is made invisible by the ring in the Hobbit... thats how Gollum ran right past him in the tunnels, he escapes from the goblins and sneaks past the dwarf lookout (can't remember his name). As for the sharpened senses, I don't think it mentions this in the Hobbit.

Haven't read it for a long time though, so I'm not really sure.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
I was thinking about Frodo being able to hear Gollum's footsteps and see in the dark in Moria extremely well . . .It was not the Ring that caused that, it was the wound from the Morgul-blade. From "A journey in the dark":Though he had been healed in Rivendell of the knife-stroke, that grim wound had not been without effect. His senses were sharper and more aware of things that could not be seen. One sign of change that he soon had noticed was that he could see more in the dark than any of his companions, save perhaps Gandalf.

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by Aranwe
He is made invisible by the ring in the Hobbit... thats how Gollum ran right past him in the tunnels, he escapes from the goblins and sneaks past the dwarf lookout (can't remember his name). As for the sharpened senses, I don't think it mentions this in the Hobbit.

Haven't read it for a long time though, so I'm not really sure.

I wasn't referring to the invisibility. I am perfectly aware that the Ring made Bilbo invisible in The Hobbit.

Artanis - good point, I confused the cause and effect there. But the Ring did enhance Frodo's perception enough that he saw Galadriel's ring upon her hand when Frodo didn't. I wonder if Bilbo would see it too? Or if Bilbo had had the Ring in Rivendell, would he have seen Elrond's ring?

[cassiopeia]

That's a good point FF. I wonder if Bilbo also saw Narya on Gandalf's hand as well.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Ah, but Frodo only was able to see Galadriel's ring after he'd first seen the Eye of Sauron in her mirror. That apparently "boosted" his insight in some way. He did ask G. why he couldn't see the minds of those wielding the three, and she said it was because he had never tried; she also warned him not to try it until he had trained himself to the domination of others (I forget the exact wording of her warning).

Bilbo never tried to use the Ring for anything other than invisibility, which may explain the lack of heightened sensitivity. Also, his travels didn't take him to a place like the Hill of Sight, nor were there any Nazgul or other beings "on the other side" around to be noticed during all his adventures while he was wearing the Ring.

[Artanis]

Good points Lady of Ithilien. It seems like the Ring and the knife-wound worked together in enhacing Frodo's senses. Do you think he would have been able to see the eye in the first place, hadn't he been 'educated' the way he had? I doubt if Bilbo had been able to see the eye, and I don't think he would have seen Nenya.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Originally posted by Artanis
Do you think he would have been able to see the eye in the first place, hadn't he been 'educated' the way he had? I doubt if Bilbo had been able to see the eye, and I don't think he would have seen Nenya. That's a really good question, Artanis, and a difficult one to answer.

It helps to know that there's another hobbit, Pippin, who also saw Sauron (presumably the Eye) in something "magical." This means, perhaps, that the artifact or viewer that each was using was what enabled each of them to see the Eye, rather than the Ring just working on Frodo.

However, Frodo almost had a one-on-one confrontation with the Eye on Amon Hen :eek: , and that was the Ring's doing. But even there, apparently, something else was needed, in this case the Hill of Sight.

Since Bilbo had neither artifact nor special place to look through or from, he likely wouldn't have been able to see the Eye. Perhaps it confirms this that he put the Ring on in Mirkwood, relatively close to Sauron (close enough for Sauron's influence to have darkened the wood, anyway), and wasn't detected, nor was he drawn to the South, where Sauron was.

[Artanis]

It is clearly several things working together here: The Ring, the Morgul-blade wound, other 'magical' artifacts, and the fact that Sauron in all cases was seeking for Frodo, or the Ring-Bearer and the Ring, or was trying to communicate (throught the Palantir).

As you said, Lady of Ithilien, Bilbo did not have any artifacts at hand, but nor did Sauron look for him, for yet he didn't know the Ring was found.

I marvel at those Hobbits, Pippin and Frodo. They confront Sauron (most unwillingly), and they resist him. They do better than both Denethor and Sarumann!

[FrodoFriend]

That's the beauty of Hobbitness. :) If only everyone were so good-hearted.

In regards to the Ring 'giving power according to stature,' I think Frodo's mental 'stature' would definitely be greater than that of Bilbo, each in their respective case. Frodo was after all a thoughtful person, which might explain why he gained above all powers of perception. I think if we look closely, the Ring enhances each of its bearers' power in the direction of their natural inclinations, while still corrupting them to a greater or lesser degree. For example:

Frodo - becomes more perceptive, gains sharpened senses and deeper understanding

Bilbo - becomes more clever, adventurous, capable in general. The ring seemes to bring out the Took-ish side of him, if you know what I mean. :)

Gollum - gains strength and long life, and "power" in the form of power to kill

Of course, the negative effects of the Ring make it a bad bargain in the end!

[Avileandra]

I seek someone to aid me in this search for information...please help
How did Gollum get his name?
What did Bilbo say when Gollum whispered in his ear?
How many teeth did Gollum say he had??

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Six teeth, noise made in throat, don't remember.

Welcome to the Entmoot! :)

[Avileandra]

Thank You for insight to a few answeres. I had written a request for other answers to do with the hobbit, care to peek. *bats lashes in a pleading manner*

[Jonathan]

I think Tolkien wrote in LotR that the Ringbearer's senses was sharpened more and more the closer he came to Mordor.
That would explain why Sam's senses, though he wasn't stabbed by a Morgul-Blade, were boosted when he wore the Ring in Mordor. That would also explain why Bilbo seemed quite unaffected by the Ring in The Hobbit, since he never got that close to Mordor.

[durin's bane]

When Frodo had the Ring, it made him more aware of the Nazgul because they are drawn to the Ring's power. In The Hobbit, the Nazgul were not searching for the Ring at the time, in fact, the Nazgul didn't even exist, so Bilbo only gained the power of invisability. But most of the answer comes from Tolkien's order of writing things, because Tolkien never planned on connecting The Hobbit with Lord of the Rings, and I don't think he even knew he was going to write LOTR in the future.

[Psycho Kitty]

couldnt it also be that in lord of the rings saurons power is much much bigger then it was when the hobbit took place. so like the ring was more awake in a way then it was during bilbos time. that would explain why the more evil powers of the ring become more of an issue to frodo and arent really stressed in the hobbit. during the hobbit the whole dynamic between sauron/mordor and the ring isnt nearly as intense.

[Anglorfin]

Originally posted by Psycho Kitty
couldnt it also be that in lord of the rings saurons power is much much bigger then it was when the hobbit took place. so like the ring was more awake in a way then it was during bilbos time. that would explain why the more evil powers of the ring become more of an issue to frodo and arent really stressed in the hobbit. during the hobbit the whole dynamic between sauron/mordor and the ring isnt nearly as intense.

I was wondering if this would be mentioned. Looked like you beat me to it anyway. I think this is the case. You can see this happening all throughout Sam and Frodo's journey through Mordor. At one point either Frodo or Sam takes note of the different intensity of the Ring's power and the explanation is given that the Ring is getting closer to the master as the master becomes more powerful as well.

[legolialis]

I believe that the enhansement of frodo's sences when he put on the ring were because he was drawing closer to mordor and the power of the ring was growing stronger

[juhsstin]

the proximity factor makes most sense to me. the first time frodo wears the ring at the prancing pony, tolkien says nothing about his experience aside from his self-admonishing for accidentally wearing it, like it was a careless mistake worth potential future yet unknown grief.