Melian

[bmilder]

I don't remember exactly why Melian, a Maia, married Elwe. Why would a spirit want to abandon life in Valinor to live with a creature of flesh and blood? I can understand an Elf-human pairing, but a Maia? It would be like marrying a God. Am I forgetting a key plot point here or does this seem a little odd?

[Quaff Down Gin]

...the Maiar did not have a hand in the creation of the Children of Iluvatar. (Most of)the Maiar love them for this and see them as beautiful beings and the "children of god". I could see how it would be possible for a Maiar to fall in love with an elf, for they are like the living poetry of Iluvatar and his ultimate vision. Also, marriage to an elf would be the closest a Mair could get to actually BEING an elf. Lastly, love is love. When it hits, don't deny it.

[Luthienn]

Hey Ben!! Thanks for showing me this BB! Now, Mom (Melian) married Dad (Elwe) because she fell in love with him. Their story was very much like my own (Beren & Luthien). He chased her around till she finally consented. Besides, if she hadn't married Elwe, LOTR would not be the same! And like Quaff Down Gin said...Love is Love.... Luthien Luthien's Tolkien Pages (http://www.chisp.net/~luthien)

[Hernalt]

Excellent page, Luthienn. Good Dragon pictures = warm, happy, fuzzy feeling.

[Luthienn]

Hey thanks Hernalt! -x-: ) <a href="http://www.chisp.net/~luthien"> <img src=http://www.chisp.net/~luthien/image/tinuviel2.jpg height=90 width=60 border=0> Lúthien's Tolkien Page</a>

[Elrond]

I wouldn't exist if they hadn't got together... I'm not complaining...

[Luthienn]

Nor I for that matter Elrond! <chuckle> New and Improved! Luthien's Middle Earth (http://www.chisp.net/~luthien)

[Elanor]

Allright, we've got three elf/human unions: Luthien/Beren, Tuor or Turin I don't remember/I-whatshername, and Arwen/Aragorn. And a Maiar/elf one: Melian/Elwe. Why is the higher, more immortal person always the girl? Couldn't a human woman marry an elf man? Are human women too ugly, while human men are not? HMMM? What about hobbits? Are we just too short or something? Or too ugly or unworthy? While we're at it, how do dwarves reproduce? There must be an answer to that somewhere. Elanor

[Luthienn]

Hmmm....good questions....I can't imagine human women were ugly, but then, I guess maybe they were compared to elven women? I don't know. As for a Hobbit/Elf union...I don't think they'd fit in many ways, not to mention physically! Luthien's Middle Earth (http://www.chisp.net/~luthien)

[Elanor]

Actually, I thought of something that redeems Tolkien's reputation: Elros. He chose to be mortal, when he could have been an elf. And it is my theory (despite what you may say about mortal life being more exciting or whatever) that he must have fallen in love with a human woman. Yay! Tolkien's not sexist after all.

[Luthienn]

Elanor.....you have an excellent point there! Luthien's Middle Earth (http://www.chisp.net/~luthien)

[Luthienn]

Elanor, your sketches are really neat! Luthien's Middle Earth (http://www.chisp.net/~luthien)

[Elanor]

well, thanks. :)

[Darth Tater]

Like others have said before, love is love. The union between Melian and Thingol (he's got so many names, but that's the most common one) was based on a relationship of love, and it was a key part in the Sil. When everyone around her was going of their rocker Melian seemed to be the only one who could actually stay sain, until her husband got Silmarilitis himself, and then she said bye bye.

[Finduilas]

There is a narrative along these lines in Morgoth's Ring, the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth. This is partially an explanation of several of the Elven customs and a discussion of the meaning of death for the Atani.

[andustar]

i can't remember where i read this, its probably in the appendix of lotr somewhere, but i thought only 1/3 of dwarves were women and only 1/3 of dwarves wanted to have a wife
or something like that, i think it was 1/3 but... tell me if i'm wrong

[Eruve]

From Appendix A: "It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people... It is because of the fewness of women among them that the kind of Dwarves increases slowly, and is in peril when they have no secure dwellings... The number of dwarf-men that marry is actually less than one third. For not all the women take husbands... As for the men, very many also do not desire marriage, being engrossed in their crafts."

[Darth Tater]

Just another reason why Man inherited the earth.

[Fat middle]

When i fistread that quote of appendixes i began to imagine dwarf-ladies as bearded ladies. Well, not a long beard but bearded enough to prevent kissing. Now i cannot imagine them without beard.

Dwarf-children should fear when their mom friends would come to have the tea and play bridge, cuz all them would want to kiss the young lads. When they would grow they should try to have the longest beard as they can, as a way of protection from lasses kissing.

That´s i think a very plausible reason for not all dwarf-ladies being married :cool:

[Elanor]

How sad. Hm, maybe I'll write a fanfic about a dwarf woman.

[Eruve]

Perhaps this will bring this back on topic (somewhat). I suppose if the Dwarf men never saw a Dwarf woman without a beard, they wouldn't think anything about kissing her... It was what they were used to, after all. Perhaps women with long beards were the Dwarven standard of beauty! ;) Really, FM, I think you're judging the Dwarves by Human standards here...
How do we know the kids weren't born with beards???? Anyway, if the Dwarf man really loved his wife, he'd kiss her, beard or no beard! Which brings us back on topic: if you love someone enough, you'll do anything for them, even endure the sorrow Melian endured because of her love for Thingol.

[Fat middle]

bearded dwarf kids? i hadn´t thought on that...

you´re right about human standards and dwarven standards of beauty. Surely they´d have their own Dwarf Lady de Milo ;)

anyway, i still think it´s odd the existance of single dwarf ladies being in so low proportion. I can only find two solutions:
1. even for dwarven standards, dwatrf ladies were really ugly :p
2. Aule didn´t put much love within dwarf guys´ hearts (save love for work).

But, hey, if they´re not very capable of love i don´t think they´ll kiss a lot their bearded ladies :p

[Darth Tater]

:rollin: ROTFLMAO!!! :rollin:


I guess maybe we all HAVE seen the type of dwarves from Middle Earth! Ever see a bearded lady in the circus? ;)

[Lillian C]

In the section of Morgoth's Ring that Finduilas mentioned, a philosophical argument between Finrod Felagund and the human woman Andreth reveals that Andreth had fallen in love with Finrod's brother Aegnor, and he with her. Sadly, Aegnor left without declaring his love, partially because of the war. (And I believe this took place before the Beren/Luthien thing, so an elf-human marriage was probably unheard of.)

[Eruve]

You're right, Lillian. It had to have happened before Beren and Luthien, because Aegnor died in the Dagor Bragollach. One of the reasons given for Aegnor not declaring himself was that he had a certian measure of foresight, and thought it wouldn't be a good idea because of the war with Morgoth.