View Full Version : Vegetarion Races in the Sil?
Arien the Maia
01-29-2003, 04:56 PM
I have always wondered if any races where vegetarions in Middle Earth? This includes the Ainur. This is some more of my speculation! Any opinions out there? Personally I get the impression that the Green Elves of Ossiriand were vegetarions because they didn't like it when the first men where coming in to Beleriand and killing beasts and birds....they said that they were their "unfriends" as a matter of fact!:D
Coney
01-29-2003, 05:17 PM
Although not appearing in the Sil, Bombadil and Goldberry were the nearest to vegetarians I can remember:) Can't really say for the elves and wotnot *shrugs*
Falagar
01-29-2003, 06:08 PM
And Beor was said not to eat animals, and I think also the Elves were vegetarians (can't imagine them hunting innocent deers for food ;))
Sister Golden Hair
01-29-2003, 06:29 PM
I have no problem imagining the Noldor as being meat eaters, but that is correct that the Green Elves seem not to be and were as Arien, the thread starter indicates were upset with the coming of Men who were.
Not so sure that I would say Beor was a vegetarian. He was the leader of those Men.
It also says at the beginning of that chapter, that Finrod went hunting with Maglor and Maedhros. What were they hunting? Orcs? I always thought it might be wild boar or something like that.
Coney
01-29-2003, 06:42 PM
Hmm, Beorn (the Hobbit) "neither hunts or eats wild animals" nor did he eat the horses and cattle he kept.
In fact he seemed to live mainly on cream and honey.....as should every good bear:)
So I suppose he comes into the vegetarian category.....and I certainly can't see his people going against his principles!
Sister Golden Hair
01-29-2003, 06:50 PM
Coney, Beor, and Beorn are two entirely different beings. Beor was the leader of the first house of the Edain to come into Beleriand, in the Silmarillion.
Sister Golden Hair
01-29-2003, 06:52 PM
Ah, another guy that ate red meat and gave it up, was Beren.
Coney
01-29-2003, 06:54 PM
I know that is why I said "Beorn (the Hobbit)" I don't know if Beornings are mentioned in the Sil...but it could be a start to look for them*shrugs*
Arien the Maia
01-30-2003, 01:39 AM
Okay, here's anther question.....what about Orome? he was after all ....the Hunter....any thoughts on that?
I agree with SGH about the Noldor...they seem like they would eat meat.
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Okay, here's anther question.....what about Orome? he was after all ....the Hunter....any thoughts on that?
I agree with SGH about the Noldor...they seem like they would eat meat. Well, Orome was a Vala, and I don't think they even had a need to eat but in physical form. There were times before the Exile that the Valar organized great feasts and gathered the Elves to them. I would think that Orome was a hunter of fell beasts in ridding Middle-earth of them.
Sween
01-30-2003, 11:36 AM
Beren would not any animal that was good he may of been partial to eating the occasional orc :confused:
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Sween
Beren would not any animal that was good he may of been partial to eating the occasional orc :confused: Sween, that's gross, but in UT, Tuor considered that until Voronwe threatened to leave him. I always found that amuzing.:D
Sween
01-30-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Sween, that's gross, but in UT, Tuor considered that until Voronwe threatened to leave him. I always found that amuzing.:D
well i was re reading the sil today and it does say that Beren would not eat any friendly bird or beast. Were there any evil cows in the service or morgoth? An evil sheep perhaps? a nice bit of dragon if there was one recentally slain :D oh what a treat that would be lol
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 11:50 AM
LOL! Eating Orc would be like eating rat. Well, if you got as hungry as Tuor was, you might eat anything. Yuck!
Arien the Maia
01-30-2003, 03:08 PM
Bur Orome was considered the Hunter before the fell beasts were even devised by Melkor, wasn't he? :confused: But the more I think about it, the more I have to say that I don't think the Valar (other than Melkor) would have killed anything...that Eru created....And as it says in the Sil....the Children of Iluvatar will have dominion over all things in Arda...
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Bur Orome was considered the Hunter before the fell beasts were even devised by Melkor, wasn't he? :confused: But the more I think about it, the more I have to say that I don't think the Valar (other than Melkor) would have killed anything...that Eru created....And as it says in the Sil....the Children of Iluvatar will have dominion over all things in Arda... Not sure about this. IMHO, Morgoth was rotten from the beginning when he caused discord in the Music. He immediately began to defile Middle-earth, and undo the works of the other Valar. So, there were evil creatures afoot before the awakening of the Elves, including evil Maiar.
Falagar
01-30-2003, 04:34 PM
Not so sure that I would say Beor was a vegetarian. He was the leader of those Men.
I meant Beorn, of course (gets confusing with all these names beginning with 'B' :D)
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Falagar
I meant Beorn, of course (gets confusing with all these names beginning with 'B' :D) Yeah, like all the "F" names and the "fins" and "rods":)
Kirinki54
01-30-2003, 06:07 PM
What about Ents? Apparently they only drank "Ent draught" and since it is not described as broth or soup, it was probably made from plants.
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Kirinki54
What about Ents? Apparently they only drank "Ent draught" and since it is not described as broth or soup, it was probably made from plants. Always good to see you here Kirinki.
Interesting. Yes, Ent draught must be like V8 juice huh?
Wayfarer
01-30-2003, 07:09 PM
Ent draught was not made of plants or animals. It was made from the waters of the entwash, distilled in a certain way. It was likely very high in minerals.
Sister Golden Hair
01-30-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Wayfarer
Ent draught was not made of plants or animals. It was made from the waters of the entwash, distilled in a certain way. It was likely very high in minerals. Sounds disgusting.
Coney
01-30-2003, 07:25 PM
Probably a killer hangover cure tho' :)
Arien the Maia
01-30-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Kirinki54
What about Ents? Apparently they only drank "Ent draught" and since it is not described as broth or soup, it was probably made from plants.
Okay, I guess the Ents would be considered Vegetarians from a certain point of view...but they are kelvar and what they ate was kelvar as well so it might be considered something different:confused:
Kirinki54
01-31-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Always good to see you here Kirinki.
Interesting. Yes, Ent draught must be like V8 juice huh?
Hi SGH! I see you are busy at this place... :)
Sister Golden Hair
01-31-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Kirinki54
Hi SGH! I see you are busy at this place... :) Very.:)
Ruinel
02-22-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Sween, that's gross, but in UT, Tuor considered that until Voronwe threatened to leave him. I always found that amuzing.:D
In that story, "Of Tuor And His Coming To Gondolin", I interpreted Vornwe's threat to leave Tuor due to Tuor's revealing themselves to the Orcs.
"'Nay!' said Voronwe. 'On this quest only the cloak (that keeps them shrowded in mist and unseen) will serve. You must forgo the fire, or else forgo Turgon. this band is not alone in the wild: cannot your mortal sight see the far flame of other posts to the north and to the south? A tumult will bring a host upon us. Harken to me, Tuor! It is against the law of the Hidden Kingdom that any should approach the gates with foes at their heels; and that law I will not break, neither for Ulmo's bidding, nor for death. Rouse the Orcs, and I leave you.'" UT
Sister Golden Hair
02-22-2003, 09:20 PM
Yeah, but he wanted to eat them.
Ruinel
02-23-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yeah, but he wanted to eat them.
That is true. But Voronwe wasn't going to leave him because of Tuor wanting to eat the Orcs (which I also find disgusting, hunger or no hunger), Voronwe was going to leave Tuor because he wanted to go home but wouldn't be able to approach Gondolin if they were being chased by Orcs. Its their law not to come home with an enemy at their heels. Which makes sense. If you've got a secret city with a secret entrance, you sure don't want the enemy to find it. And surely, they would have found the entrance if they were pursuing Voronwe and Tuor to Gondolin. No matter how many gates you have put up.
But I would have to assume that Elves do not eat Orcs. And having been a vegetarian myself for 4.5 yrs (but no longer, and currently only eating meat on average, once a week) that I would think that some Elves were probably vegetarians also. But not all as a rule. I could definitely see the Noldor taking down a deer or two. Or perhaps, Elves preferred a vegetarian lifestyle, but ate meat on occasion as necessity.
Sister Golden Hair
02-23-2003, 10:52 AM
Yeah, I think I said earlier that I easily imagine the Noldor being meat eaters.
Ruinel
02-23-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yeah, I think I said earlier that I easily imagine the Noldor being meat eaters.
Yes, you did. I'm in total agreement with you on that.
Sister Golden Hair
02-23-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Ruinel
Yes, you did. I'm in total agreement with you on that. Remember when Finrod met Men? Right before that it says that he went hunting with Maglor and Meadhros, but wearied of the chase. What do you suppose they were hunting?
Inderjit Sanghera
02-23-2003, 12:19 PM
Orcs, perhaps? Though that was in the middle of the Siege of Angband, so that is doubtful. It seems Eastern Beleriand was quite a good hunting ground for animals, as the land of Amras, son of Feanor, just below Estolad was quite a popular hunting ground, especially with Finrod. The man sure liked his hunting.
Or maybe he just liked the sons of Feanor, after all he was the wisest of the Noldor in M-E...
Ruinel
02-23-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
Orcs, perhaps? Though that was in the middle of the Siege of Angband, so that is doubtful. It seems Eastern Beleriand was quite a good hunting ground for animals, as the land of Amras, son of Feanor, just below Estolad was quite a popular hunting ground, especially with Finrod. The man sure liked his hunting.
Or maybe he just liked the sons of Feanor, after all he was the wisest of the Noldor in M-E...
There are many references to hunting in the Sil by Elves, mainly the Elves you and Sister Golden Hair mentioned. The referrences seem to be more of a "male-bonding" kind of referrence where they're hunting animals.
In places in the book where Orcs are mentioned there seems to be a set up to the scene, where your mind conjures up dark images and dread. I don't get that feeling when I read the passages about the guys off hunting.
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