Anyone do any fantasy writing? [Archive]

galadriel

02-10-2003, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Elvellyn
Ive tried doing some LotR fanfic but Im not very good.
Ive also tried just regular fiction but it never works out.
I dunno, maybe its that i lack the discipline.
Ive come up w/ some good ideas but i have trouble expanding on them, you knw like actually writing the story.
Does this make any sense?:confused: Yeah, you make plenty of sense. I think every writer suffers from Good-Idea-Turned-Sour-itis. (Yes, I'm a cheeseball.) Just keep trying. Practice makes perfect, and discipline, yes, is important. I find that outlines help keep me on track: first, a general outline of basic plot points; then, more detailed notes for each chapter.

It's also important to know *how* you're going to write something ahead of time. In other words, you should think out not just the content of the plot, but also the writing techniques that will effectively develop the characters, carry out the plot, and keep the reader interested. I personally learned how to do this from reading. Studying other writers' styles will help you find your own style.

Ugh. I feel like my English teacher!

Hope this convoluted mess helped some. :)

Sicirus

02-10-2003, 09:39 PM

I am still in the process of finishing a story I wrote based off tolkiens novels. Yet I am waiting for Brokehorn to add some stuff to the story so its still under construction.
Here is a fic I wrote for Schnoogle.
This story will atke a bit of linking to get to though. I have no way of just putting you there rright away so please read it. Please *does cute wolf pawing and wide eyed worried look*

www.schnoogle.com (http://www.schnoogle.com)

Ok first you must go to search then type in Werewolves Wand and see the fic Werewold Cub by that author. That is my fic.:p

Sicirus

02-10-2003, 09:41 PM

Ok instead of search go to point me and then type in the authors name.

Lalaith_Elf

02-11-2003, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Lalaith, what kind of stories do you write? Fanfic or other?

um kind of both. at the moment i'm writing a, well it's not a novel as such, and i'm starting to write a film script. if you hadn't guessd i'm going into the actor then maybe director stage.

galadriel

02-11-2003, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
um kind of both. at the moment i'm writing a, well it's not a novel as such, and i'm starting to write a film script. if you hadn't guessd i'm going into the actor then maybe director stage. Wow! I had the chance to write a screenplay for an independent creative writing project at school, but I copped out and decided to plot out a novel instead. I guess screenplays would be easier if I were more familliar with the techniques and terminology... but still, bravo to you.

Elvellyn

02-11-2003, 10:50 PM

Thanks for all the advice everybody! :D

Lalaith_Elf

02-16-2003, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by galadriel
Wow! I had the chance to write a screenplay for an independent creative writing project at school, but I copped out and decided to plot out a novel instead. I guess screenplays would be easier if I were more familliar with the techniques and terminology... but still, bravo to you.

thank you
oh and keep your fingers crossed, cos i was in the 2nd hp movie and i'm hoping to get asked back soon for the third!!!

Aralyn

02-16-2003, 04:38 PM

Yes I love to write fantasy. i have submitted several stories but do not yet have one published. Mostly fanfic.

Gwaimir Windgem

02-16-2003, 08:58 PM

Once again, welcome to the Entmoot, Aralyn! :D

galadriel

02-16-2003, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by Lalaith_Elf
thank you
oh and keep your fingers crossed, cos i was in the 2nd hp movie and i'm hoping to get asked back soon for the third!!! You're very welcome!
HP... that doesn't stand for a certain popular series of the fantastic persuasion....
Sheesh. I'm starstruck.

Lief Erikson

02-17-2003, 02:24 AM

This is kind of funny :). You know, this thread was moved here because it was off topic, yet at the same time an almost duplicate thread is still going on in General Messages with a different title.

Originally posted by Aralyn
Yes I love to write fantasy. i have submitted several stories but do not yet have one published. Mostly fanfic.

What are some of the basic plots of some of your stories? Have you been writing long?

Tessar

02-17-2003, 03:55 AM

Do I write fantasy?

I'm trying too... :D

Lalaith_Elf

02-17-2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by galadriel
You're very welcome!
HP... that doesn't stand for a certain popular series of the fantastic persuasion....
Sheesh. I'm starstruck.

hmmmmmmm let me think, well i don't think i was in a movie about hp sauce..... although that might have been interesting!!!!! LOL

Entlover

02-17-2003, 08:37 PM

It's great to be in the company of so many aspiring writers!

I've just created a website called www.talesoffantasy.com.
It has several stories and I plan to add the first chapter of my book The Ring of the Dark Elves soon. It's a retelling of the Ring of the Nibelungs.

I'd love to have input from mooters on my stories.

Gwaimir Windgem

02-17-2003, 08:46 PM

Unfortunately, I didn't even have time to read all of the Golden Helm (first I started). :( But what I did have time to read was very, very well-written indeed!

Mystic Warrior

02-19-2003, 04:58 PM

I love doing Lord of the Rings and Harry POtter fantasy. Plus I love to just make up stuff. But I hate Non Fiction. I love to believe in something that isn't real.I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU.? bUT ANYWAY i LOVE AND DO WRITE A WHOLE LOT OF fANTASY. i WANT TO BECOME AN AUTHOR.

Entlover

02-20-2003, 01:38 AM

Thank you for the kind comments, Gwaimir.

I looked at Gwaimir's Weavers of Legend website and it looks cool.
So here are all these writers (whose stuff it would be exciting to read) - why don't you guys publish something on Gwaimir's website? It's just sitting there waiting for new fiction. I hate to admit it but I enjoy reading further adventures of our heroes from Middle Earth -- as long as they're not out of character.

Of course none of us are Tolkien - but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

galadriel

02-20-2003, 02:28 PM

Okay. I lied. I really am a fantasy author now.

I'm doing a novel-writing project for school, as I may have mentioned - I don't have to write the whole thing, but it does need to be plotted out - and, lo and behold, I'm writing the tale of Sleeping Beauty's wake... in modernday England. It's really just a thinly-veiled commentary on the bleakness of industrialism... but I'm starting to really get into it.

If I really feel insane, I may go ahead and write the whole thing over the summer.

And no, I really don't know what I'm getting myself into.

Lief Erikson

02-20-2003, 09:26 PM

I read The Golden Helm and enjoyed it a lot :). The main character was very clever to do what he did . . . and all before supper time! :D

Now I'm going to give a few comments on the story, covered to avoid giving spoilers to others who might want to read the book :).
I really think that those characters ought to keep the helmet; it's so easy for them to do immense good with it. Of course, it's easy for immense evil to be done with it too- that's easy to imagine. They'd have to be very careful who the bearer is.

The conclusion is peaceful and draws all everything together very nicely. To tell the truth, I'm not used to such pleasant endings coming without violence!

Was it the wolf that came up with the plan to accomplish the mission, or the main character? I can't really remember at this point; I read the story a couple days ago but wasn't able to post about it until today. The main character was very intelligent and good at being careful what magic he used, and figuring out what purposes it could be put to. I actually expected events to guide him more than happened; it actually turned out that he guided events.

I was also glad that the mermaid lived.

I like how you described the bad guy. Cold, ruthless on the outside, but then on the inside it shows the inner pain that most people don't think about, but which I believe is there in most horrible people. That's one of the things I strive for in my books, to make the bad characters have reasons for being bad. I don't like to just throw them in, automatically bad, but I prefer to make them have good reasons for being what they are so that they seem human. His upbringing is a good reason and I'm glad it was shown.

Some things the story lacked, I thought, was much character development for the main character, and also there wasn't any strong bad guy. This isn't always a problem, but it made the story, though extremely happy, not extraordinarily suspensful.

I liked your writing style, and you're good at writing. Have you written many stories so far?

Aralyn

02-20-2003, 10:44 PM

what are some of the basic plots of your stories? have you been writing long?

Only about two years. Since I discovered I LOVE it and my Mom can't say, "You can't write cause your in trouble!":D

My plots vary. I like strong female characters and I try to do plots no one has done. I always give my Characters a flaw cause I read too many goody girl perfect people stories. My fave plot is where two ordinary kids try to stop terrorists. And no one believes they can do it or even believes its happening.

Aralyn

02-20-2003, 10:47 PM

Thanx Gwaimair. i Love this site.

Entlover

02-21-2003, 03:59 PM

Thank you for the detailed comments, Lief Erickson.

Your books? Where and what have you written?

i appreciate the constructive criticism; it's very useful. Yes, I have a hard time with evildoers because I can't really see why anybody would want to do bad stuff, when creative stuff is more fun --- bad guys must have a certain level of immaturity. But then you get very smart criminals like -- several political figures spring to mind, but I don't want to get into that here. I wonder what makes them tick.

My favorite story on the site (and the shortest) is Sandwich.

Free-fiction is publishing a collection of my stories, someday.

Gwaimir Windgem

02-21-2003, 11:33 PM

For smart villians, don't forget Moriarity. :eek:

Lief Erikson

02-22-2003, 06:32 PM

I've written a series of Star Trek stories, each of which is on average slightly over thirty pages long. That was quite a while ago. Since then I've written one novel which was 105 pages long and a sequel to it which was 150 pages long. These were fantasy books, but they were mere preparation for my great work, which is the Erinosad Trilogy. Erinosad is the name of the fantasy world in this trilogy. The one of those that I'm working on now is called The Uirlon Cord, which is so far about 350 pages long, but my calculations so far show that it'll likely end up around 580 or 600 pages. It's book 2 of the trilogy. I haven't written book 1 yet.

Then, I've also written a few short stories of various time periods and subjects.
Originally posted by Entlover
i appreciate the constructive criticism; it's very useful. Yes, I have a hard time with evildoers because I can't really see why anybody would want to do bad stuff, when creative stuff is more fun --- bad guys must have a certain level of immaturity. But then you get very smart criminals like -- several political figures spring to mind, but I don't want to get into that here. I wonder what makes them tick.
They primarily don't care that what they're doing is evil. They might not think that what they're doing is evil, or they think it's justified by the cause they're fighting for, or they've been brought up to be bad (As your villain was) . . . there are a bunch of possible reasons.

In my book, The Uirlon Cord, one of the villains is bad because of a desire for revenge, when good guys accidentally killed someone who was close to him. It made him furious at the good guys, and because of this he seeks to destroy them. It makes him think that his evil is justified because of what they did.

Two other of the villains are actually worse than him, but they have more excuse. They know that what they do is evil and don't attempt to justify it in their minds. But they were brought up that way. Original impressions from youth and being brought up to believe something can have strong impact upon an individual's life course.

Another of the villains also became a villain because he was deceived, tricked into thinking that the good guys had done a wicked deed against him that in actuality they hadn't.

Originally posted by Entlover
My favorite story on the site (and the shortest) is Sandwich.

Free-fiction is publishing a collection of my stories, someday.
That's great! :D How large is your collection, so far?

Lief Erikson

02-22-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Tessar
Do I write fantasy?

I'm trying too... :D

You're doing great so far, as you know :). Are you still doing primarily RPGs, or are you doing short stories or books yet?

Galenavar

02-22-2003, 09:04 PM

*shyly raises hand*

I've written some fantasy. I've written a short 'novel' taking place in a tavern with all sorts of fantasy folks that hang out in it. It's called Cat's- The only place for Non-Normals (normals also welcome). That's what the title is right now, basically because that's the name of the tavern. The bartender's a half-elf and some of the usuals are a wizard, a werewolf, and a vampire to name a few.

I've also done some short stories. In fact, I have just finished one called "Otherworld Lullaby". It's an urban fantasy and I'm working on the next one in it's series right now.

My boyfriend has also written a fantasy novel that he is trying to raise money to get published. He has a hundred bucks to go, though. :( I don't know if I'm going to try to publish mine yet.

Lief Erikson

02-22-2003, 10:54 PM

What kind of a book is yours? I mean, is it the classic kind of fantasy with heroes trying to accomplish a quest against some sort of a dark evil, or what? If you could sum up the plot in a few sentences, what would it be? Though you can give a longer description, if you like :).

Galenavar

02-25-2003, 01:01 PM

Well, this is the basic plot of the first one. There's this tavern in this town in the southern US, modern day times. The regulars are not normal. The half-elf bartender and her friends, consisting of a vampire, a good wizard, a werewolf, a girl with split personalities, and a man with incredible luck, fight this evil wizard from the good wizard's past to save him. That's the basic plot, but there's a lot of little sub-plots in there as well.

The urban fantasy is about this girl who is lulled to sleep each night by a melody played outside her window. She runs away from home and meets all sorts of Faerie types in the city.

That's a basic rundown.:p

Laurus Nobilis

02-25-2003, 02:55 PM

I have a hard time with evildoers because I can't really see why anybody would want to do bad stuff, when creative stuff is more fun --- bad guys must have a certain level of immaturity.

I have problems with those characters, too. My villains turn out horribly flat. :( I know they're supposed to have a motivation, even if it's not explicitly said in the story, but what on Earth could motivate someone to turn into a Dark Wizard and try to take over the world???

Does anyone know how to handle fantasy villains?

galadriel

02-25-2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Laurus Nobilis
I have problems with those characters, too. My villains turn out horribly flat. :( I know they're supposed to have a motivation, even if it's not explicitly said in the story, but what on Earth could motivate someone to turn into a Dark Wizard and try to take over the world???

Does anyone know how to handle fantasy villains? I admittedly haven't written many villians, but I've read/watched enough bad ones (and goods ones) that I have an opinion on the matter.

I guess a good place to look is Tolkien: Morgoth wanted to destroy creation to spite Eru (God). Sauron wanted to control everything to (ostensibly) make it better - kind of like Hitler.

I think the most important thing about a villian's motive is that the villian didn't start out evil. For instance, Sauron started out as an altruist. Then he decided that being a dictator was the only way of achieving that goal. Soon enough, he started to liked efficiency (and, of course, being the boss) more than making the world a better place. Before you know it, you have a power-hungry villian.

Galenavar

02-25-2003, 10:54 PM

I think the most important thing about a villian's motive is that the villian didn't start out evil.

The villain in one of my stories is like that. He didn't start evil, he was really a good wizard in training. He was also very handsome. Then he had an accident and blamed it on his friend. The accident left him with a horribly scarred face and he wasn't experienced enough in magic to fix it all the way. This led to his social life falling apart because he was so hateful and secretive, which in turn led him to "the dark side" in his efforts to fix his life, which eventually became getting revenge on his friend whom he believed was to blam for everything bad that happened to him.

galadriel

02-27-2003, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Galenavar
The villain in one of my stories is like that. He didn't start evil, he was really a good wizard in training. He was also very handsome. Then he had an accident and blamed it on his friend. The accident left him with a horribly scarred face and he wasn't experienced enough in magic to fix it all the way. This led to his social life falling apart because he was so hateful and secretive, which in turn led him to "the dark side" in his efforts to fix his life, which eventually became getting revenge on his friend whom he believed was to blam for everything bad that happened to him. :) I like it! It's a great backstory.

Gwaimir Windgem

02-27-2003, 11:17 PM

I agree, quite good indeed. Especially if he's a tad bit (or more) vain. ;)

Lief Erikson

02-28-2003, 01:51 AM

Well, yah, but in my book, good characters have flaws too. The bad have flaws and so do the good, but the bad started out just like the good, only their flaws became emphasized. The way to turn a person to wickedness in books is to reach out to what is bad in him and bring it more to the surface, causing it to be the more dominant streak in him. The good in them, just like the good in normal good characters starts out in dominance, but because the individual is only human, they have character flaws.

Just like the way a person turns good can sometimes be the decreasing of the bad in them and the new dominance of the good. It's all a balance thing, in some cases like that.

So! Any favorite good characters, anyone? I know they tend to be a bit more boring than bad characters, frequently, so I'll expand on my statement. Better yet, how about good characters with FLAWS!? :D (Or any characters, for that matter, that are in or pass through the gray area between good and evil?)

Gwaimir Windgem

02-28-2003, 10:30 AM

Sounds like Raistlin Majere and Dalamar the Dark a bit.

Galenavar

02-28-2003, 11:01 AM

Well, yah, but in my book, good characters have flaws too
Mine too. :)

but because the individual is only human, they have character flaws.
Unless they aren't human. ;)

It's all a balance thing
I agree. But sometimes it's fun to have a story with little balance and a lot of chaos. mwa ha ha...;) :p

Gwaimir Windgem

02-28-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Galenavar
Unless they aren't human. ;)

That's what I was thinking! ;) :D

Lief Erikson

03-01-2003, 01:31 PM

Yes, you guys are right on that one :D. I forgot to mention that possibility. In my book too, I have villains that aren't human. They're just less interesting so they aren't the first ones I think of. In my book, as a matter of a fact, my favorite character could well be the primary villain. That's primarily because he's so clever and I really love how he manipulates everything from behind the scenes. Rather similar to Palpatine actually, now that I think about it.

Galenavar

03-01-2003, 06:08 PM

I find that sometimes a villain who is perfect and without flaws can be more interesting than a villain with flaws. It gives the hero a reason to doubt himself and say, "How in the heck am I supposed to beat this thing?" And, sometimes, perfection can be a flaw. It all depends on how perfection is defined. ;)

Lief Erikson

03-01-2003, 10:54 PM

Oh yes, I'm not opposed to villains being brilliant. Recall that I said my favorite character in my own book could well be the villain because he's so clever.

Elvellyn

03-01-2003, 11:51 PM

I don't think of perfection as a flaw as much as I do pride.

Laurus Nobilis

03-02-2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Elvellyn
I don't think of perfection as a flaw as much as I do pride.

I think you're right- especially because pride could be a dangerous flaw. If the villain is too proud, he/she'll probably leave things unattended, or underestimate his/her opponents.

Interesting suggestions, everyone! :)

Lief Erikson

03-02-2003, 04:10 PM

But one interesting thing of how perfection can be a flaw is that it can lead you to pride. When one gains great abilities in a field, one naturally becomes more at risk of becoming proud of those abilities. And that pride, as you pointed out , Laurus, can be a very dangerous flaw. I've used it as the flaw that defeats my villain in a book before.

Earniel

03-02-2003, 05:53 PM

Lief, you sound like a pro. :)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-02-2003, 06:09 PM

Yeah, I'll say! :eek: You wouldn't happen to eleventy-one, would you? :D

Lief Erikson

03-03-2003, 11:05 AM

No, but because of people like you I've got a lot of pride, so I know what I'm talking about ;).

Silverstripe

03-04-2003, 01:05 AM

*sigh* :( One of the two books I wanted to do is probably going to have to be put off for a few years. If you want to know why (and the book's premise), PM me and I'll tell you, but I'm not going to get into it here.

However, I'm still working on the other one, and while we're on the subject of villains, I'll tell you about one of mine. She started the chain of events that leads to the main conflict in the story, but she's not precisely evil. Mistaken, and rather patronizing, but her most destructive act was actually one meant to help magical children. The problem is, my villain was an orphan who was abused in her childhood. Thus, she never truly understood "family," and she didn't realize how much it meant to children and their parents.

Lief Erikson

03-04-2003, 01:23 AM

Background definitely can have an effect upon characters' tendencies toward evil. Children that have parents involved in drugs or violent behavior tend more frequently to grow up with such tendencies themselves. They don't look upon it as wrong. At that extremely young stage, they learn from their parents. That is why it is so important for children to be raised in good surroundings. Two of the main villains in The Uirlon Cord are evil because they were brought up that way and one of the main good guys still has trouble because of his background.

That's a realistic way of doing your villain, Silverstripe.

Galenavar

03-04-2003, 12:55 PM

I think that everyone here has a lot of great ideas. I would love to read some of these stories! :D

I might have to "steal" some of this for my own stories...;) :rolleyes:

TariCalmcacil

03-04-2003, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
What sort of techniques do you like to use? Narrating style, types of characters, figurative language, etc?

I have my own little thing going down. My first drafts of my writings are very informal, I really need to get a better way to write a first draft down... because i usually abbreviate things that shouldn't be and forget punciation... it's really a pain but when I write i just know part of the plot and then take it away to wherever it wants to go. Yeah...I've written probably around 50 pages of like that.

A good tip, from one who had to learn it the VERY HARD way, and still hasn't fixed it, is to SAVE YOUR WORK IN MORE THEN ONE PLACE! Really! Really do it! I lost about 30 pages of work that way (Lost a floppy. Only had it on floppy) >_< Not too smart.

I have this whole thing down for beta'ing. I'm a good beta... well, at least I like to think so with my little system going at least. it works like this, i read the piece as soon as I get it, just once through so I can get a feel for the plot and what's going on in the story and then I go through and edit it with RED (I use a different color with then the text is typed in) And if I edit a word I change the font color of the word infront of it and behind it so that it sticks out more and you can see more of how it went. Another thing that's important when beta'ing is keeping contact. You don't want to let the person down. I try to get everthing back before a week... and if I can't its probably best to send an email to them, giving yourself a reasonable deadline. If its short (2-3) pages except to spend 3-4 hours editing, maybe you want to take it in short pieces because if you do a whole chapter thats 20 pages long it could take a long time... but if you break it up in reasonable amounts (nothing ridicoulus like paragraph or liek that) Umm..

I write a lot, but lately I've practically lost everything. I have two Star Trek things I want to write before returning to Fantasy. Its partially because I have to retype a lot of my stories because I lost the disk that held them... and I am waiting until I get a new computer; one that likes floppies. Heh... so yeah

If anyone want sot chat about writing, or cares to help with my Star Trek fantasy thing, please email me! I love talking to people so if you just want to chat, I hope we can strike up a chat real easily. Thanks!

Tari

Blodeuedd

03-05-2003, 09:28 AM

Have been working on this fantasy series for like over 5 years now and well its coming along. So much happens and just hope I can finish the books one day. Aye, just as I dont turn out like Jordan and writes book after book. Ok just one more, I p¨romise

Gwaimir Windgem

03-05-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by TariCalmcacil
A good tip, from one who had to learn it the VERY HARD way, and still hasn't fixed it, is to SAVE YOUR WORK IN MORE THEN ONE PLACE! Really! Really do it! I lost about 30 pages of work that way (Lost a floppy. Only had it on floppy) >_< Not too smart.

Yeah, tell me about it! I once lost an enormous amount of work on various projects (like over 200 pages, I think), because a floppy of mine got 'lost' (if you want to know the story, PM me or ask over messenger, but it's too long to go into here)! :mad: Fortunately, I managed to recover most of a book I'd been writing. Unfortunately, I lost an enormous amount of work dealing with my world, a few hobbies, ideas for other books, and a little bit that had been written of one book, and a good deal of another:(

Earniel

03-05-2003, 06:04 PM

Ouch, that sounds bad. :eek: I don't even have a copy on a floppy. I'd beter go and change that.

TariCalmcacil

03-05-2003, 07:30 PM

Its more likely to get destroyed if the only place you have it is on a floppy. It's bad.

Yeah. Save your stuff in several places. Several folders even! Can I stress this enough?

-Tari

Galenavar

03-05-2003, 11:16 PM

I once had a story saved on a floppy. I printed out a copy, then realized all the changes I needed to make. Unfortunately, my computer broke down, so I had to use a different one. Unfortunately, that computer wouldn't read the floppy. So, I had to retype the entire story from the copy I printed and add changes as I went along. It was a total pain in the backside.

Lief Erikson

03-06-2003, 01:48 AM

How long of a story was it?

I have my book saved on two computers, and I update the one I'm not writing in . . . every one or two months :o . I really should do it more :). I expect all of us have lost emails, PMs or posts through computer freeze ups, glitches or simple mistakes. One of the woes of computers :(.

The Ringbearer

03-06-2003, 03:49 AM

I prefer to keep all my notes n' stuff in one of my 5-6 notebooks. *hugs notebook* My friends.....But I need to go back and redo my whole storyline, and I don't want to tear out those pages or anything, but I also don't want to get confused and use old notes.
I'm working on a fanfic of one of Frodo's nightmares after the Ring was destroyed, but before the Gray Havens right now. I keep that in my notebook too. :D

Earniel

03-06-2003, 05:49 AM

Computers are easy because you can make many changes in your text without making all those blots and mess you have when you amend a text on paper. But sometimes I find it easier to write on paper. I'ts messier, but it's more tangable. I have various stories in various stages of completion either on computer or on paper or on both. Anyone who would want to reconstruct those stories when I'm dead, is in for a job from hell. :D

Finrod Felagund

03-06-2003, 12:57 PM

Well currently I'm writing my own take on the Arhturian Legends, an otriginal series which vaguely ties in at the end with the Arthurian series, and one novel with my little brother based on the Legend of Zelda video game series.

Galenavar

03-07-2003, 11:07 PM

How long of a story was it?
It was only 30-some pages. :rolleyes:

I prefer to keep all my notes n' stuff in one of my 5-6 notebooks
You know, that's what I should do, but unfortunately I'm not that organized. I have a couple of folders, but when I get an idea for my stories, I just write it down somewhere as fast as I can... and those ideas don't always make it back to the folder. :o

But sometimes I find it easier to write on paper. I'ts messier, but it's more tangable. I have various stories in various stages of completion either on computer or on paper or on both. Anyone who would want to reconstruct those stories when I'm dead, is in for a job from hell.
Right there with ya'! :D I do the exact same thing.

Lief Erikson

03-08-2003, 12:57 AM

I have a bunch of ideas written on paper in a box in one of the cabinets of what used to be my desk. When I did The Uirlon Cord's plot, it was originally likely to be about 100 pages, but now it looks to me as if it'll end up more around the 600 page number. I have The Uirlon Cord's plot saved in original form, but you know what, it was a really good plot even from the start. I don't have many changes in what I have there, though I have huge changes in terms of adding things in.

Entlover

03-08-2003, 07:20 PM

I've changed my signature. What do you think?

Computers are great for writing with. Much easier to change things, try different sentence structure. Wow, if Tolkien had had a word processor, I wonder whether he'd have written even more.
Longhand is so time consuming.

TariCalmcacil

03-08-2003, 11:00 PM

Writing is a great pasttime. Yeah, its sad that its so time consuming. Plots and character development are very important and sometimes the problem is you start a story and you have a plot in your mind, so you write down, say, the first chapter, but then 6 months later you start the second... and you don't know what to do for a plot.

Yeah, I am going to have a helluva lotta fun rip-tearing through some of my fic's. All help appreciated. =D

I have some Si-Fi stories in my head, and stories from school; nothing that I am too particularly proud of.

Most of my stories are in dire need of editing. *Sigh* Just another thing to do, huh?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-09-2003, 12:37 AM

I remember several years ago I used to get on and just write every day. I wouldn't think about it, or look it over. Just write. Then one day I pulled it up and started reading it. And that went out the window. :rolleyes: The Moral: Wot? Since when does every story have to have a moral?!?!? O, all right.. ;) I can't write worth squat without being careful about it. :D Takes planning etc. for me. Anyway, that one would have needed radical revisions, on account of changes made to my world.

Lief Erikson

03-09-2003, 04:17 AM

With The Uirlon Cord, I didn't have all the history made up beforehand either. I had some of the earliest creation done and some of the more recent events. The fifteen years before The Uirlon Cord takes place I had quite a bit written to. Now I have all that history done, but I really should have started on it earlier.

Most of the changes in a written work of mine take place in the plot creation stage. That's where I come up with ideas, turn them over and throw them out. Very few are actually kept; generally actually none of them are. Usually the plot idea comes in a sort of a flash; I just write it out and it comes as I write it. Focusing upon what's logical to have happen generally helps me quite a bit in terms of plot creation. Just looking for what would make sense for them to do is really helpful, and then if you want something else to happen you can throw in a circumstance- possibly a circumstance that opens up another plot thread. Looking at what's logical for people to do in situations like this really is helpful.

Unfortunately, though I believe that I can come up with very good plots (Says this extremely modestly ;) :D), I think that this might lead to something of a weakness in my writing. Sometimes my plot just seems to me a bit too plot driven and it doesn't always seem to me that I'm focused enough on the characters and their development. I hope that that's not the case and that the characters are all good, but I'm less confident of them then I am of my plots by quite a bit.

Entlover, I like your signature :). Computers definitely do help things also; it has been a few years since I wrote a story by hand. And that was out of necessity- I couldn't be on the computer.

Lief Erikson

03-09-2003, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by TariCalmcacil
Writing is a great pasttime. Yeah, its sad that its so time consuming. Plots and character development are very important and sometimes the problem is you start a story and you have a plot in your mind, so you write down, say, the first chapter, but then 6 months later you start the second... and you don't know what to do for a plot.

It would make things a lot easier, I'd imagine, if you wrote down your plot somewhere.

I have one question for you, though. How can it be time consuming to write when you write only a chapter every six months?

TariCalmcacil

03-09-2003, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
It would make things a lot easier, I'd imagine, if you wrote down your plot somewhere.

I have one question for you, though. How can it be time consuming to write when you write only a chapter every six months?

*laughs* Yes, it would make things a lot easier if I wrote my plot down somewhere.

The stories still need to be edited, beta'd (I also have a tendency to rewrite portions or forget stupid things, I'm only human) and depending on where I am putting them once they are finished (usually my website) so they need to be coded appropreately.

Even if I don't write a chapter, writing is time-consuming. There's a lot to be done, stories to be typed, edited, coded. Sometimes I even beta.

I guess what you want me to say is "Its not really time-consuming its just that I'm not too smart---or maybe its procrastination-- and it takes me forever"

-Tari

Silverstripe

03-09-2003, 10:47 AM

I usually write the history of my worlds before I do anything else. The problem with that is, I tend to get carried away, and get so caught up in the history I forget to write the original story, or wind up writing it as part of the history, which makes it too dry (it sounds like a textbook!)

Lief Erikson

03-10-2003, 02:09 AM

History is the backbone of any story or RPG in the fantasy realm, I think. Most stories center upon their history and I love to work mine out :).

(Sighs) Tari, I purposely tried to make that post as tactful as I could- I didn't want to be misinterpreted. I don't want you to say yuou're not smart or you're proctrastinating or contradict yourself; I was just curious about your meaning and offering a possible way to improve.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-10-2003, 02:20 AM

I completely agree. History before all else! :D

Earniel

03-10-2003, 02:45 PM

History is indeed very important. Because at some point everything becomes history. :p

Gwaimir Windgem

03-10-2003, 04:32 PM

But of course, we all know that the BEST way to write is: languages, history, story. :D

Lief Erikson

03-11-2003, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Eärniel
History is indeed very important. Because at some point everything becomes history. :p
Yesterday we were looking at pictures to a small photo album of my Mom, and when I was looking at those photos, I found it weird. It's because one generally doesn't think of history as really having happened. Maybe it's just me, but I don't generally think of history as real events and other people's real lives. The photos drove home again to me how things had happened before now, and at that time it was now.

I'm rambling, probably, but it just is really interesting when one thinks about it in that way.

Earniel

03-11-2003, 02:46 PM

Pictures can do that. My dad has a whole box full of very old pictures, you know the black and white one. Pictures of my grandfather who died way before I was born, pictures of our street with only three houses in it, pictures of small trees that now reach the second floor of the house, ect.... Each and every single moment in history was once a 'now'. Quite mind boggling at times.

But of course, we all know that the BEST way to write is: languages, history, story.

Well, I have to take the SECOND best way to write then. Because there is no way I am even going to TRY and make a language of my own. :D

galadriel

03-11-2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Entlover
Computers are great for writing with. Much easier to change things, try different sentence structure. Wow, if Tolkien had had a word processor, I wonder whether he'd have written even more.
Longhand is so time consuming. Aha! That can be #43 on my list of Things To Do When I Aquire A Time Machine.... "buy Tolkien a laptop." Followed, naturally, by the infinitely more difficult #44 - "convince Tolkien that piece of newfangled computer techology is not going to corrupt his immortal nature-loving soul".

Gwaimir Windgem

03-11-2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Eärniel
Pictures can do that. My dad has a whole box full of very old pictures, you know the black and white one. Pictures of my grandfather who died way before I was born, pictures of our street with only three houses in it, pictures of small trees that now reach the second floor of the house, ect.... Each and every single moment in history was once a 'now'. Quite mind boggling at times.

Well, I have to take the SECOND best way to write then. Because there is no way I am even going to TRY and make a language of my own. :D

I actually do attempt that, though I'm sure my languages positively SUCK, as I know very little of linguistics.

I have:
a veeery little bit of Dark-Elven
Some Dwarven
A little Elder Tongue
A fairish amout of Elvish (I used to have several hundred words, but that was on the disk :(, as well as a lot of Elder Tongue :( )
A wee tad of Goblinic

Of course, it's been for ever since I worked on this stuff. Some of it may be revised or go 'kaput'

Lief Erikson

03-14-2003, 09:08 PM

In my novel, I never attempted new languages. I also avoid getting into the special weapons with particular lineage and things like that- my book is complicated enough without that sort of thing. I tend to focus more upon the plot, history and characters. My character development still could use some improvement though. Anyone out there have any ideas as to how to enhance characters?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-14-2003, 09:31 PM

Sorry, none from me. :(

Personally, I think that the background etc. is very important in a story. That's why I'm more in a 'world-building' stage than actual writing at the moment.

Mark of Cenla

03-14-2003, 10:01 PM

I just started a fantasy novel. Before I wrote the first chapter, I made a long list of names, places, and creatures. Then I drew a map. I will make up the history as I go; that is how I always write. Peace.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-14-2003, 10:06 PM

I was going to say 'Welcome to the Enmoot', but then I saw your registry date. :eek: Well, anyway, thanks for your input! :) Any and all input of the various fantasy authors (or hopefuls :D ) on this board is greatly appreciated. :)

Lief Erikson

03-15-2003, 12:56 AM

Mark, have you written many short stories or books, or is this one of your earlier stabs at fantasy?

I started my fantasy world small, in terms of just writing a short story about one country. That was fun, and because it was I decided to go further than that. So I created the world Erinosad, its races, and some of its history. The history still has a long way to go, because I haven't done it from the beginning of the world and I haven't decided yet how old the world is.

Mark of Cenla

03-15-2003, 11:25 AM

I am an English teacher, and I make my students write a lot. So I usually write when they are writing. I have written several short stories and one novel, which I am still in the process of typing. I have never been published or anything close to it.

This is my first stab at fantasy. I was too impatient to get going on developing the characters to create a history. Peace.

#1AragornLover

03-15-2003, 11:30 AM

My fantasy stories are about Aragorn!:) I love Aragorn! Yeah! I love Aragorn!

Lief Erikson

03-15-2003, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Mark of Cenla
I am an English teacher, and I make my students write a lot. So I usually write when they are writing. I have written several short stories and one novel, which I am still in the process of typing. I have never been published or anything close to it.

This is my first stab at fantasy. I was too impatient to get going on developing the characters to create a history. Peace.

If this is your first stab at fantasy, have you done other types of writing before? Normal fiction or nonfiction, for example.

Lief Erikson

03-15-2003, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Personally, I think that the background etc. is very important in a story. That's why I'm more in a 'world-building' stage than actual writing at the moment.

What's up in your world building stage at the moment, then?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-15-2003, 06:04 PM

Beg pardon, don't think I understand.

Lief Erikson

03-15-2003, 06:13 PM

What's your world like, and what's left to accomplish?

Silverstripe

03-15-2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
But of course, we all know that the BEST way to write is: languages, history, story. :D

Although this is probably NOT the "best" way to write (can there be a "best?"), I do histories first so I can tell how the developement of languages might have gone. (How the languages influence each other, how culture influences language). I have one culture where the people are rather arrogant, and think they're better than everyone else.

However, those within the group tend to have immense respect for each other.
Their language has some words with polite (or formal) and informal versions. Given their history, they actually use the polite form with each other and the informal form with outsiders.

Of course, it would be possible to let language influence history instead, but to do that, I'd basically have to invent the entire language, and I'm nowhere near that good. :p

Gwaimir Windgem

03-15-2003, 08:29 PM

Oooooo, that's a big question. :p Let's see how much I can condense the world.

First off, religion. Being a Christian, the good-religion is a kinda monotheistic-polytheistic mix. There is the Elder God, Eltarn, who created the world, is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, etc. Then there are twelve lesser goodly gods who each have their own traits (I won't go into all of them, wouldn't want to bore you to death :p) and which make up the Council of the Heavens. There is an Order devoted to each of the twelve gods (as well as a very select Order of Eltarn, headed by the High Priest), as well as a number of other orders, some aligned as sub-orders, some not aligned with any specific goodly deity. There are twelve evil gods, including Vilkroth, the Black God, the God of Demons (the Satan of Lisman, basically). But the evil gods are much more racially-based than the others. While some of the goodly races tend to be more aligned with certain deities, the evil gods are almost exclusively worshipped by a specific race.

As far as magic is concerned, that is the matter which has been changing the most, in all likelihood. All along, most of the various races have had special, magic-like abilities. Originally, there were a good deal of magic-users, separated into groups depending on which of the Seven Schools of magic they specialised in. Then magic was only practiced by a very select few (i.e. the fae folk were able to manipulate many bright and colorful magics, whereas Wizards whom some thought to be fae in the forms of old men ( :rolleyes: ) commanded a rather subtler magic. Then it got to where magic was not practiced at all, except for the magical abilities of the various races. Right now, it's evolved to the point where is a deep and arcane art, practiced by a very few, who must devote their lives to it's studies to become masters (magic-users all being old men and women). Also, there are certain other forms of magic which have remained fairly static, the "black" magics. These magics include the study, summoning, and attempted control of demons (demonology), the animation of corpses (necromancy), and other, generic black arts (sorcery). The overall view of magic has always been that in the beginning Eltarn imbued Lisman with this force, which can be used for good or for ill (except when no-body could use magic.)

The Geography of Lisman is at the moment very vague. In the Southwest corner are the Swamps of Death where the Dark-Elves live. It is almost completely surrounded by the Shield Mounts, so named because the protect the peoples of good from the Dark-Elven armies The High-Elven kingdom of Oldarul was founded to protect a gap in the Shield Mounts. The North-lands are approximately one third of the landmass of Lisman; this is where the barbarians live, as well as monsters, in some areas. In a generally central location is the land of Canrath, the most cultured and 'highest' human kingdom; it is in it's capital city of Gondel that the Temple of Eltarn lies. On the borders of Canrath is the Federation of (Nesai/Naros?), a group of several small kingdoms, duchies, etc. compiled into one country; they are the allies of Canrath. They are less cultured, and are something of a farming country. I'm not even certain as to the borders of Lisman. I'm torn between a Middle-earth like map (lands in the East, waters in the West), in which case I'd have the Duor Isles (home of the Duorgothi, prime worshippers of Vilkroth) just off the northwestern shore, and a world surrounded by mists and impassable mountains, with none-know-what beyond. If this were the case, then either the Duor Isles would be in the center of a great inland sea, or there would be no Duor Isles, and the Duorgothi would merely inhabit a country of Duor.

Um...Let's see....well, that's all I can think of at the moment which might possibly be interesting to anyone else. If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask. :)

As to what is not done, obviously the geography is one thing. In the series I plan on writing first, Dark-Elves kidnap a human girl as the prologue, so I have to figure some way to make this work geographically. Also there is very little historically done, not to mention that I might change the magic system. :p And of course languages are little done; the Elder Tongue at least I want to be fairly well-developed, as it the language of the Church of Eltarn, used in ceremonies and rituals. As all of my stories have some priest or some such person in them, and some of them are wholly centered around them, methinks this needs to be fairly well-developed. I'm sure there's more than that, but it's all I can think of that needs to be done.

Ok, I'll stop boring you now. :p

Gwaimir Windgem

03-15-2003, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Silverstripe
Although this is probably NOT the "best" way to write (can there be a "best?"), I do histories first so I can tell how the developement of languages might have gone. (How the languages influence each other, how culture influences language). I have one culture where the people are rather arrogant, and think they're better than everyone else.

However, those within the group tend to have immense respect for each other.
Their language has some words with polite (or formal) and informal versions. Given their history, they actually use the polite form with each other and the informal form with outsiders.

Of course, it would be possible to let language influence history instead, but to do that, I'd basically have to invent the entire language, and I'm nowhere near that good. :p

The reason I said that is because that is how Tolkien's works went, I believe. :D

Galenavar

03-15-2003, 08:43 PM

Personally, when I write, I generally start with a basic idea for characters and then develop as I go, giving details on their history and such. I usually know what I want to happen in the plot and jot down ideas, but that will frequently radically change by the end of the story. :p In fact, most of everything I plan on happening in my stories changes by the time I reach the end of my stories. I just can't control them sometimes. :rolleyes:

Lief Erikson

03-15-2003, 09:58 PM

Languages is one thing I don't bother with in The Uirlon Cord. Racism is another field I ignore. I'm in the middle of watching FoTR at the moment, and I was really struck this time around by how much racism really is in it. Elrond against men and men and elves against each other and Sauron and Saruman against everyone.

I have to go now to eat supper- I'll post more after we finish FoTR :).

Gwaimir Windgem

03-15-2003, 10:11 PM

Probably I'm not going to do too much with most languages; not much beyond even development to make names. But the Elder Tongue will be different.

What do you mean by 'racism'?

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 12:09 AM

By racism I mean prejudice against another race or species. Hmm, thought of another one, though I suppose that's not racism but is more like just plain prejudice. Sam's against Gollum.

I suppose it's unfair to say Sauron and Saruman are racist- I doubt that they really are. Elrond definitely was though. Listen to his remarks about men in the scene where he and Gandalf have their first conversation that we hear. He's talking about 'men are weak', among other comments, completely ignoring how much men are sacrificing for the sake of the world. Elves and dwarves, even in the books, have been long prejudiced against each other.

Your god system is interesting. I'm a little unclear as to how you explain your magic, why it is inherant in the races. Or is that just left sort of unexplained, or perhaps is it an extra extention of the races that only a few try to get linked with?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 12:19 AM

I'm not really certain what you mean, about why it is inherent, or an extention of the races?

Sorry, my brain is half-off tonight. :p

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 12:34 AM

I was asking about the origin of magic in your races. Was it created as a part of the races, so that all creatures can have it but only a few do, or was it only for a select few?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 12:43 AM

Ah, I see. Most of the non-human races have inherent special abilities. Elves have abilities dealing with nature and life, Dwarves can command stone, Dryads have power over trees, and so on. They are parts of the races, which they were created with; racial gifts, so to speak.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 01:06 AM

Okay. That's nice :). I like the distribution of powers to the dwelling places of the creatures and their links to those places.

With my world, although I might change this, magical bases are in everyone. Some people it is strong enough in that they can learn to manipulate it to accomplish various things. The stronger the strength, the more the person can accomplish and the larger things he or she can do. Pretty similar to Robert Jordan's, in that respect.

I don't discern between flows like Robert Jordan does, like he creates Fire, Water, Air, Earth and perhaps one other kind of flow. I have only one kind of flow and I've made a logical reason for these flows, and for the reason they're called flows.

They basically all are currents in an ocean, and the ocean is a magical sphere that surrounds the earth. On top of the sphere is the spirit realm, and it has three (Possibly four, I'm still considering the fourth) access points at which it has direct contact with the physical. One godlike being commands each of these places, for they are the access points of those creatures upon the earth.

I've still not decided why precisely some people have stronger magic than others, but I'm turning over some interesting possibilities still.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Galenavar
Personally, when I write, I generally start with a basic idea for characters and then develop as I go, giving details on their history and such. I usually know what I want to happen in the plot and jot down ideas, but that will frequently radically change by the end of the story. :p In fact, most of everything I plan on happening in my stories changes by the time I reach the end of my stories. I just can't control them sometimes. :rolleyes:

I can completely understand that :). With the novel I'm working on now, it was originally started to give background to another book I'd written. However, as I got further into the book, I realized that it was limited by its sequel in ways I didn't like. So eventually I decided to skip out the sequel and pretend it didn't happen.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 01:31 AM

I started one book which was to tell of the recovery of a group of holy Scrolls upon which were scribed the Laws of Eltarn, which were lost from His Temple when a King arose in Canrath who worshipped Vilkroth, and eventually banned the worship of Eltarn. He eventually mustered an army and marched on the Temple of Eltarn, planning to destroy it. But rather than allow His Temple (built by His own hands) to be destroyed, Eltarn destroyed him and his army; but the High Priest had heard of his plans, and took several of the most sacred artifacts (including the Scrolls of Law) and fled the Temple. He sought a suitable resting-place, and finally found it in the North-lands, among the Vikarzik (a barbarian tribe converted by Alkath, a priest of Eltarn). He laid the artifacts to rest in a monument the Vikarzik had built honouring Alkath. Shortly thereafter, three evil Dragons (possibly the number may change) came breathing flames and shaking ground, and drove the Vikarzik from the monument. This was all originally in a prologue to a book which details how a group of divinely ordained individuals recovers the Scrolls. Now the prologue has turned into the first two parts of a trilogy. :rolleyes:

Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood

03-16-2003, 02:04 AM

I write, well, I'm not very far in an untitled book about (OMG!!! An elf...) Well, I have about fifty pages, yeah, not to much, but, oh well at least I have sumthan

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Now the prologue has turned into the first two parts of a trilogy. :rolleyes:

Yep :). That sounds familiar :).

Pretty much the only way you could have changed that is by giving the whole prologue in narration. You're doing it in third person writing, correct?

Earniel

03-16-2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
I've still not decided why precisely some people have stronger magic than others, but I'm turning over some interesting possibilities still.

Magic is becoming so inmeshed in fantasy that it's nearly impossible to create a fantasy world without magic. Personally I find it hard to write about magic. In the end it seems so 'common' in fantasy that it's hard to be original. But that's my view. I prefer a very vague more suggestive form of magic but to attain that elusive feel of magic is sadly beyond my writing skills. So I end up giving races and characters more exceptional skills rather than real magic.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 12:49 PM

Fantasy writing is almost called fantasy writing because of the existence of magic in it, in my opinion. It is extremely common to be found in fantasy books, as you point out, and there are very few fantasy books without magic. Those generally go the other way, and do things with quests to slay dragons or things of that sort. It has to be outlandish and impossible in some way, or it might run the risk of being labeled historical fiction :eek:!

My magic is not illusive, unfortunately. That's something I really enjoyed in LoTR, but in mine it's quite blunt and flashy. However, there are some key differences in it from normal magic, if not in exterior effects, at least in its source. The reasons behind it and the way it links into the spirit realm (Which does manage to keep some of the illusiveness I enjoyed in LoTR) are pretty good.

Laurus Nobilis

03-16-2003, 03:35 PM

Magic is one of the subjects I find most interesting to write about. I enjoyed very much thinking about the different kinds and levels of magic that different races have in my stories; and I especially like to contrast it with the humans, that in my world have no magic whatsoever and have to depend on their intelligence and adaptability to solve problems.

I like both subtle and "flashy" magic- in my stories the two kinds appear. Subtle characters make subtle magic and flashy characters make flashy magic. ;)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 03:53 PM

Actually, both. The prologue was almost entirely consisted of a character being brought up to date by a Prophet, and endowed with the mantle of the leader of the Lawbringers; so the 'prologue' was really pretty much narrated to him by the Prophet. But I do write in third-person.

Lief, your magic system is very interesting, indeed. Sounds quite good. :D

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 04:00 PM

Thank-you. It's still got a ways to go in terms of working out some details, but that's all right. It'll be a few years before I have to have a really, really solid model.

Man, that prophet in your book must be a longwinded speaker! If this one person's speech is two parts of a trilogy :eek: :eek: :eek: ! Or perhaps I just misunderstood ;).

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 04:17 PM

Hehe! :D No, the prologue was the original background to the one story, and I decided to 'flesh it out' with two previous volumes. One telling of how High Priest Fallos fares during the reign of Gulstan the Accursed, and the other telling of his wanderings throughout Lisman after he takes the artifacts and flees, and his eventual stopping in the lands of the Vikarzik.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 04:30 PM

Okay, so he describes in brief what happened in the past in the prologue of . . . part 3? And then you decided to write everything's happening. Okay, gotcha.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 04:33 PM

Yeah. :) Though I'll still have the prologue, as some of the occurences won't be recorded in the first two.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 04:37 PM

Are you working on all three parts simultaneously? And if not, have you finished any of them yet?

Also what's your estimate as to the final length of these parts?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 04:40 PM

I did some work on the third part, but unfortunately that got lost. :( I've done some 20 pages on the first part, but it got rather screwed up in a format-to-format transaction, and I have yet to go through and finish fixing it. Also it doesn't seem to be having the flavour I want, and I really need to go through and write the whole thing. I was thinking that maybe they'd be 250-300 pages each, but I really don't know.

But once I get around to re-writing and de-scrambling what I have of the first part, I'm probably not going to do much with this for a while. I have another trilogy which I'm probably gonna do first.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 04:45 PM

Sci-fi, or fantasy?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 04:53 PM

Fantasy. ALL of my stuff is fantasy. Though I've dabbled with a few ideas which are less traditional; i.e. modern fantasy, and a kind of re-awakening of fantasy in a sci-fi age.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 04:59 PM

Well the risk, I expect you know, is that you won't end up finishing your first idea. If you launch into something else that's big it's a great likelihood that you won't end up finishing your earlier idea. I personally take the approach that none of my stories longer than thirty pages that I have planned will get done except for the big one I'm writing now. By the time I'm done with this big one, I'll already have newer, better plans for what to do next. I expect you have experience with how old ideas become obsolete over time.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 05:03 PM

I do, a bit. But the other trilogy I have I think is my best (and possibly most original) idea for a story. A lot is, erhem, heavily influenced by other stuff. As I was just telling about the one story, I was struck by how remarkably similar it was to the Hobbit.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by #1AragornLover
My fantasy stories are about Aragorn!:) I love Aragorn! Yeah! I love Aragorn!

My goodness! I didn't notice that before! What does this have to do with fantasy writing? :rolleyes:

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 05:07 PM

He's writing short stories about Aragorn. That's in the fantasy genre, is it not ;) :D.

What are some of the key differences between these two trilogies? Is it in the types of magic, races or what?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 05:19 PM

No, all (or at least almost all) of my planned stories take place in Lisman. That's why I consider it's development to be so important. The main differences would be the story lines.

Lief Erikson

03-16-2003, 05:25 PM

Oh, all right. That makes more sense then. My book was originally created for the same purpose, to bring history to life and enhance things. However, I ended up getting rid of its sequels because they weren't good enough :).

Okay then, so now what shall we discuss? Characters, again? Good and bad characters :D?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 05:27 PM

I don't have any prefences. :D

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 05:34 PM

Mayhap ideas and such for stories?

Earniel

03-16-2003, 06:26 PM

I do have a question for the two gentlemen who seem to have written books already: How far do you go in your world building? Do your countries all have long histories? Did you make maps rigth down to miles and exact borders? Or is it all more vague and on the background, more hinted than actually existing? Just wondering. :)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 06:33 PM

Written books already? You can't be talking to me. :p I've never gotten more than c. 50 pages on a book.

crickhollow

03-16-2003, 09:10 PM

Well, you're 46 pages ahead of me, so in my book, unless anyone has done better, you're the resident expert. :)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 09:42 PM

But the 50 pages was pure crap. :p

Anywho, I suppose I may as well answer the question as well as I may.

I highly doubt I would ever have maps with precisely correct miles and such. I'm not smart enough for that. :p And as for the countries, I have thought about that a goodly amount, though of course I need to come up with countries before I can come up with histories for them. :p I have a very basic history for three regions; Canrath (or Kanrath, I'm debating on the spelling) is the oldest and greatest human kingdom, centered on the White City of Gondel, built by the Elves and Dwarves before Mankind was created; Gondel is centered around the divinely built Temple of Eltarn. The Swamps of Death is the name given to the region where the Dark-Elves live; when they broke off from the other Elves in rebellion to Eltarn, they fled there, and their darkness flooded and poisoned the region, turning it into a vile swamp. And Oldarul was founded by the High-Elves to guard the gap in the Shield Mountains which separate the Swamps of Death from the rest of the world.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 09:44 PM

BTW, just wanted to officially add that I'm open to any suggestions any-one might have, and that if they want to see any of my stuff, to PM me, and I'll be more than happy to show it to them. :)

Elvellyn

03-16-2003, 09:48 PM

I have a question too. Do you guys ever have trouble writing from a woman's perspective?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-16-2003, 09:57 PM

As I've never tried it, I can honestly say I don't. ;)

Lief Erikson

03-17-2003, 12:13 AM

I have written from women's perspective many times, but never found it difficult. They're just characters one invents, the same as men are. I've not analyzed differences between my women and my men, though I can assure you they're definitely not as distinct as Robert Jordan's :D.

My history isn't that deep. I've done some as far as the history, but most of it is just current ideas and opinions, not set in concrete. My farthest back history is set in a few things, and then I have a few other major events. There are many generations which I haven't written anything about, and there's a lot of history yet for me to invent. Most of the history that is done is very close to the time of my book's events, because I needed it as a base. So to answer your question, Eärniel (If it was directed partly toward me), I have probably not done nearly as much history yet as Gwaimir has. Even though I'm nearly 400 pages into my book.

I haven't gotten into working out all the distances in terms of miles, though I generally do gage about how long a trip will take before they take it. My world Erinosad isn't near as big as planet Earth is :).

Lief Erikson

03-17-2003, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
BTW, just wanted to officially add that I'm open to any suggestions any-one might have, and that if they want to see any of my stuff, to PM me, and I'll be more than happy to show it to them. :)

Do you have any short stories written? If so, I'd be interested in reading them :).

Lief Erikson

03-17-2003, 12:28 AM

Anyone interested in bringing up their spiciest character :D? Or just the character that they like best?

I think my favorite character in my book, as I've already said, is probably Darkagrin. He's the villain of my books, and the reason I like him best is because he's the smartest.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-17-2003, 09:37 AM

Sorry, no short stories. :(

Gwaimir Windgem

03-17-2003, 12:17 PM

My characters aren't really that good, but I'll give a couple of examples:

Eigath is the son of King Arsun, and the heir to the Crown of the realm of Canrath. As a youth, he was always scholarly and educated, and interested in the various cultures of the world; in particular, he was interested in the Cthalgar, a tribe of barbarians from long ago whose influence once spanned almost all of the North-lands. He delved deep into tomes of lore and history, attempting to learn everything he could of them. Eventually, he realised that the source of their power had been in front of him all along; their worship of Vilkroth, King of the dark Gods and far greater than the barbarian Gods, gave them His favour, and the ability to overrun their neighbours in their time. After learning of the source of their power, he began to engage in secret midnight rituals, and worshipped the Demon-God in hopes of gaining power. As a natural result, he gained an intense hatred of all things holy to Eltarn, the greatest enemy of Vilkroth; when he took the throne, he changed his name to Gulstan, which in the tongue of the Cthalgar meant Black King.

Fallos was the High Priest of Eltarn during his reign. He was a fairly simplistic man, a bit unusual for one of his rank, enjoying the simple things of life more than riches and wealth. He was a content and practical man, but a bit stern on sticking to the rules. When he first heard the rumours of Eigath, he did not believe them; as such a thing had never happened before, he would not believe it had happened now. The Queen, who suspected her son's apostasy, begged him to heal the unnaturally aged and dying King, but he would not, due to a rule made by one of the High Priests of long ago, that the members of the Priesthood would not involve themselves in matters of politics and succession to the throne. When he realised the truth in the rumours, he was horrified, and by the time he found out, it was too late to save the life of the King. He was terribly shaken, and blamed himself wholly for the whole happening, but stayed true to his faith and beliefs, not compromising them for possible solutions to this which would go against the teachings he stood for. He began to age quickly due to the terrible stress upon himself, and when the Scrolls of Law (along with other artifacts) were laid to rest, he stepped down from the High Priesthood, and lived in peaceful quiet, constantly repenting of his mistakes; he died peacefully shortly thereafter, still blaming himself, but confident that the matter would be taken care of by his God.

Alas, I also wanted to mention Kwinetha, but I have no time. :( I'll get to her after work.

Pfffft. :p I've done extremely little history other than the background for stories. All I can think of is the Creation story.

Earniel

03-17-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Written books already? You can't be talking to me. :p I've never gotten more than c. 50 pages on a book.

My apologies. From what I read about your book it sounded more or less in an advanced stage. I guess I missed the only 50 pages-comment. Sorry. :)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-17-2003, 04:11 PM

No problem. :)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-17-2003, 07:18 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to:

HEROES OF LISMAN

Tonight's Episode:

Fair Ladies and Damsels in Distress

For our main feature, please give a big hand to Kwinetha!

Ok, I'll stop acting up now. :p

Kwinetha is the wife of Arsun, and (as a natural result thereof) the mother of Eigath. While not much younger than the King, she is very beautiful for her age (ever see Glennis John [or whatever her name is] in the Court Jester? Think her a few years older, and with a white streak through her hair). She is a very noble and proud person. It was she who first tried to warn Fallos of Eigath's dark ways; it was she who begged him to heal King Arsun, and keep him on the throne. When Eigath ascends to the throne, she stays true to her faith, never once even in name or appearance accepting his apostasy for her own. As a mother, she blames herself for his fall, and any love she may have for him is drowned out in the need she feels to right this wrong. She attempts to convince Fallos to attend the ritual of his coronation and assassinate him then. She remains a constant thorn in his side, and a dominant person in under-ground organizations that remain faithful to Eltarn and oppose Eigath, and is a very influential behind-the-scenes figure in attempts to overthrow or assassinate him. Why he allowed her to remain alive so long is a mystery, unless it were to preserve face or merely to as a form of amusement. Eventually, she did die, on the altar of Vilkroth and under the knife of Eigath. Yet to the end, she never lost her dignity, or her unswerving faith.

And here are a couple of ladies from my other trilogy.
Armine is a young child, only ten years of age, but in her is a simple purity and an undying faith in the works of Eltarn, and trusts him to take care of all things. Because of her tremendous faith, she has great ability with the supernatural, which comes in useful at crucial story times (one in especial).

Tara was captured as a very young girl by a party of raiding Dark-Elves, with the intention of sacrificing her to their goddess Zharha. However, the priestesses recognized within her a tremendous amount of untapped power, almost great enough to rival a deity. Rather than sacrificing her, they bound her with spells of control, and raised her as one of them. She was inducted into their Sisterhood at an early age, and acted as a priestess of Zharha for some time. When she was freed from the spells of the priestesses by Armine, her name and early past were unknown, and she was named Tara, which is Elvish for "Pure lady" (though I will probably change it to the Elder Tongue equivalent) as a substitute. She is tortured by visions and dreams of the atrocities she committed as a member of the Sisterhood, and ever is her face dark and troubled. She views her task (to give her life to put Zharha in her proper place) as a form of penance, or atonement for her terrible deeds. When it is done at last, her first and last peaceful smile graces her lips, as her body lies on the ground.

Any questions, comments or characters from anyone? :)

Galenavar

03-17-2003, 09:07 PM

Here are a couple of my favorite characters I've created...

First, there is Cat. She is the bartender and owner of a tavern in a very unique town. This town attracts all sorts of different "non-normal" folk. The motto of her tavern is "The only place for non-normals. (normals also welcome)". She is sarcastic, yet jovial, very intelligent and has a great capacity for sharp wit. Cat also has, in abundance, the quality every bartender needs, the ability to listen. A natural born counselor, she helps all sort of people with their problems, which leads to some interesting friendships.

One of her friends is Tiger, a 750 year old wizard who looks to be in his late twenties. He is charming with dashing good looks and is a very well mannered and somewhat proper, but he recognizes the value of humor and loves a good laugh. Tiger is my 'tragic' character. He goes through a lot of hardships (for example being forced to kill an old friend in order to save everyone else he cares about), but manages to come out okay in the end.

Another friend of Cat is a late middle aged doctor who is simply called Doc. His fiery red hair, well, the hair that hasn't grayed yet anyway, is a reflection of his personality. Though age has calmed him down he still is a lively, humorous old soul who listens well and is always ready with advice.

Those are a few of my current favorites, though if things go the way I plan, there will be many more interesting developments on some of my other characters. :p

Gwaimir Windgem

03-17-2003, 09:19 PM

Thanks for sharing that. :) I especially like that line. :D

Elvellyn

03-17-2003, 10:44 PM

Gwaimir- How did you come up with all those names? I am severely lacking in creativity when it comes to names. Wait, Im severely lacking in creativity when it comes to...everything.:confused:

BTW-I really liked your characters and their stories.:D

Edit: My brain isn't working today.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-17-2003, 10:58 PM

O, I dunno. For Elvish characters, I am developing a language (which will probably not get much further than enough for naming); but for humans, I just make them up. I'd really like to use Old English for human names, but unfortunately I don't know enough about it to. :(

Lief Erikson

03-18-2003, 01:39 AM

I could be wrong, but I noticed a trend in all your good characters Gwaimir. All the good ones seem to have a lot of faith and purity.

And I think I saw another trend, in all your characters, Galenavar. They all seem to have a sense of humor.

Are those just the writing style or because of the way the books are? Don't get me wrong, I don't see it as a problem. I'm just noting what I see.

I liked the character descriptions and stories to them :).

It puts me in the mood to tell the stories of some of my characters.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-18-2003, 01:43 AM

Not all of them. :p Ironically, of these (except Eigath :p), probably Fallos is the one with the most wavering faith (except possibly Tara; in her, the faith is replaced by stern resolve to atone).

Lief Erikson

03-18-2003, 02:03 AM

I suppose I'll start with Orsoul.

He's a rather rough and cold individual. He grew up in the town of Carball during the time of the war between the Rainbow Order (My order of wizards) and the dark wizards. That was a huge war spanning many years and was just winding down at the time Orsoul was growing up. He was eight years old when the Rainbow Order got to his village, which was one of the last hold-outs of the dark wizards. There his father, Badaragon, died, along with everyone else of his youth.

He managed to survive and slip away from the village and what happened next hardened him. He was unwanted and uncared for in a wild and sparsely populated area. He lived though, stealing his food sometimes and doing what it took to learn the ways of the world.

He sensed in his mind a calling to return to a place, and it gave him a direction. However he didn't trust this voice and didn't follow it, avoiding obeying its direction because he felt that it would lead him to evil.

When he became older he was able to make his own choices and decide for himself what was right, and regardless of what they'd done to him and his family in the past, he decided that the Rainbow Order had been in the right. So he joined its side and became a wizard.

Because of his history and a darkness they sensed about him, the wizards distrusted him. Another reason for this was that he had a stronger magic with him than any of they did. He swiftly saw their weakness, and new things occasionally came to his mind, new powers that he learned when they came to him. He was contemptuous of the wizards though and didn't teach them these new powers, keeping them to himself. In mockery of the wizards he put on black robes rather than white, he wore the traditional garb of a dark wizard.

He gained some influence in the Rainbow Castle, though his manner and behavior made most wizards shun his presence.

The only one that Orsoul would grant the priviledge of respect was the Leader of the Rainbow Council, which was the government body that had huge influence over the entire world. Because of the friction between Orsoul and other individuals and Orsoul's lack of good behavior, the Council Leader separated him from Elerev by sending him out to the Flame of Darkest Night, to guard it from being used by dark wizards.

The Flame of Darkest Night was one of the three bases that a godlike being had set upon the earth. This was Vorcol's base from which he reached the world. The Rainbow Order had shielded it with magic to prevent it from being contacted or being used as a source of power by dark wizards. They gave it to Orsoul to command the defenses of because it needed someone powerful to watch over it, and they had a plan of how to avoid having any future dark wizards from coming into being.

When a dark wizard touched or accessed any part of the Flame of Darkest Night, the magic would be absorbed into him. When a good wizard touched it, it caused the wizard tremendous pain and the conflict was visible.

Orsoul would therefore use this as a test to discover which kind of a wizard the trainees were, whether they were evil or good. An individual could turn evil afterward and there'd be nothing they could do about it, but if he had dark intentions from the beginning, his wickedness would be exposed in this way.

So that's basically what his history is before The Uirlon Cord begins.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-18-2003, 02:06 AM

And yes, as I am a devout Christian (and not nearly so clever as Tolkien :p) my books are very much centered on religion, and on faith. I'm pretty sure that in every story, there is at least one priest, Prophet, or Paladin.

P. S. The Prophets are individuals who have been chosen to serve as the voice of Eltarn; they wander the lands of Lisman, speaking His word to the inhabitants. The Paladins are individuals who have been chosen to serve as the swords of Eltarn; some protect His followers, some seek out and destroy Evil; all are appointed warriors with divinely guided (and very often blessed) blades, a great sense of righteousness and justice, and (probably) divine powers or abilities.

Lief Erikson

03-18-2003, 02:18 AM

I'll now turn to one of the major villains in The Uirlon Cord.

Baarorg served as an officer in the army of Venaros, a borderland country and one with a smaller rulership that lacked a good deal of control of some of the tribes and barbarian elements in the country.

Venaros was a country nearby a much larger country named Aharvadon. Aharvadon had a great military and was aggressive against the smaller countries that it was close to, because it was in a growing stage and wanted to broaden its influence and control.

Barbarian tribes in Venaros caused offense against Aharvadon and they were quick to react. The Rainbow Council gave their approval of Aharvadon's action because of tribal disputes inside Venaros and its belief that the small country were vicious savages while Aharvadon had strength, unity and order.

Baarorg united tribes with the small government of Venaros because he had once been among them. He knew the terrain, and defeated the enemy at every turn. Aharvadon was forced to give up eventually, and out of the whole ordeal Venaros grew strong and unified. But during this war, Crondarga, the only sorcerer who had survived Carball's destruction, was able to reach Baarorg, poisoning him against the Rainbow Order forever by destroying his family and pretending it was the Council’s doing.

Maddened by grief and rage, Baarorg left his now safe country to seek revenge. Baarorg’s reputation as a master general grew even further when he joined the king of Erena and assisted him by defeating the pirates that preyed on the ships conducting trade between Erena and Hornad, another country.

From there Baarorg began to gather military power to himself in Erena, finally weakening the king severely and becoming in control of the country himself. The king was only king in name.

Baarorg launched an invasion upon a neighboring country on a pretext and the Rainbow Council saw him as what he was, a dangerous and aggressive threat.

But before long, the Rainbow Order declared that what Baarorg was doing was making foes and then defeating them, and it decreed that his army and its worldwide supporters would only be spared from justice if Baarorg was removed from its lead. This was just what Baarorg had been waiting for, and instead of stepping down or being stepped down, as the Rainbow Council had expected him to do, he brought his long carefully laid plans into action and invaded Elerev. His revenge strike for the deaths of his family was brought into motion. He caught the Rainbow Order completely by surprise and advanced through their territories like a deadly whirlwind, destroying two armies that the Council sent out to stop him. Each of them should have been strong enough to counter him, but none were sufficient. In the end he had the Rainbow Council itself besieged.

His victory would have been complete if not for one mistake: waiting on rushing the gate for Crondarga’s magical items. In a great battle outside the very walls of the Rainbow Castle, his host was trapped and finally defeated. Baarorg was banished to the Mountains of Eseren and imprisoned there for fifteen years.

There The Uirlon Cord starts. In the prologue, Baarorg is rescued from his imprisonment by a dark wizard and they begin plotting once again the defeat of the Rainbow Order.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-18-2003, 02:19 AM

I was posting at the same time as you. :p Anyway, very interesting, I like his background, quite well written. :) Exchanging of characters is quite interesting. :D

Lief Erikson

03-18-2003, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
And yes, as I am a devout Christian (and not nearly so clever as Tolkien :p) my books are very much centered on religion, and on faith. I'm pretty sure that in every story, there is at least one priest, Prophet, or Paladin.

P. S. The Prophets are individuals who have been chosen to serve as the voice of Eltarn; they wander the lands of Lisman, speaking His word to the inhabitants. The Paladins are individuals who have been chosen to serve as the swords of Eltarn; some protect His followers, some seek out and destroy Evil; all are appointed warriors with divinely guided (and very often blessed) blades, a great sense of righteousness and justice, and (probably) divine powers or abilities.

Is Eltarn much greater than all the evil gods, as in Christian theology?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-18-2003, 02:23 AM

See above post regarding Baarorg.

Yes, Eltarn is the name given him in the Elder Tongue; he is the same god as the Christian God, and Eru.

Lief Erikson

03-18-2003, 02:43 AM

Well, I think that about does it for me for the time being as far as writing about characters. I probably shouldn't have given away so much about Baarorg. Though it doesn't come into The Uirlon Cord, I'm planning on writing a prequel that involves many of those events. Oh well.

Mmm, here's one of my good characters. A mermaid named Syrayal. She is going to be in that prequel to, though as a girl at that time. She's a young woman in The Uirlon Cord, and has gone against prejudice in her country to become a tracker. It wasn't considered a good job for women to do. You know how in countries around the world women didn't have the rights that men did? Well, that's the way it is in the mercivilization, somewhat. But Syrayal went against customs and became a tracker.

The trackers' guild didn't have too much problem with it. Though they didn't like the public disapproval, they recognized Syrayal's bravery in going against all her relations and her determination to enter into this profession, so they accepted her. After they'd trained her, she became the first female tracker in Mesashell (The name of that particular mercountry).

After that another young mermaid, Ebrella, who is sixteen in The Uirlon Cord, followed Syrayal's leadership. She was highly scorned by those that knew her also, but not so badly as Syrayal had been. She grew up with the same passion for tracking and had Syrayal as her role model. She was young and tended to be reckless sometimes, not thinking with the cool head of wisdom yet.

But she also was accepted by the trackers' guild, though they tried to keep the two mermaids busy as far afield as possible as often as possible, because of the public's contempt for the two mermaids.

I might have written this into The Uirlon Cord but I forget, that they even made a new women's quarters section in their headquarters in Seashale, the capital of Mesashell.

So The Uirlon Cord starts with Ebrella and Syrayal started off on a secret mission along with a few others, and then things take a surprising and unpleasant shift for them. Their mission goes askew and they are thrown into a political tangle.

After that mission, things get sorted out more, but again, I don't really like going into direct description of many events in The Uirlon Cord.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-18-2003, 11:26 AM

I take it they are the heroines, if you don't mind my asking?

Elessar the Elfstone

03-18-2003, 12:52 PM

I too like writing fantasy at the moment I'm writing a novel about Gandalf's return to middle earth I'm planning to send it to this site's fan fiction page. :D

P.S If anyone reads it in the future I apologise for any spelling/punctuation mistakes :rolleyes:

elvendrummer87

03-18-2003, 11:20 PM

i've done some fantsy stuff. most of it i've chucked after a few miserable pages though. currently i'm working on a story that sounds pretty much like every other fantsy i've read (besides Tolkien) but i like it. i've also done some historical fiction about the american civil war and stuff. and i'm really into writing poetry! :D

crickhollow

03-19-2003, 01:04 AM

Most of my stuff involves parallel worlds, and the characters stumbling from one in to the other. After the great tradition set in motion by Carroll, MacDonald, Baum, and Lewis (chronilogically in that order ;)), I suppose, but the worlds are my own.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 01:28 AM

Ok, lemme pose a question to the good people o' the 'Moot: Do any of you belong to/attend any writer's groups?

crickhollow

03-19-2003, 02:48 AM

no. This semester I'm taking a creative writing class, but when that ends next month, I'll be homeless. ;)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 11:48 AM

I've joined a church writer's group with monthly meetings on the third Tuesday. In last night's meeting, a new person came, who reads fantasy! Woohoo! :D

I plan on taking at least one creative writing class, maybe more, but unfortunately I can't do that in my current school system :(, so I'll have to wait until I'm out of school.

EDIT: wrote at least one a creative writing class. :rolleyes: See title for more info.

Laurus Nobilis

03-19-2003, 02:38 PM

I haven't taken part into any groups until now, but I want to find out more about a creative writing group that begins next month in my college. Let's just hope it's affordable! :p

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 03:01 PM

Ha. Mine's free. :p

Lief Erikson

03-19-2003, 08:09 PM

I tend to think of all the characters in my books as just characters, rather than heroes or heroines. But I guess Syrayal and Ebrella could be called heroines, yes :). They are main characters, anyway, and are involved in one of the missions.

I'm not involved in any writers' group either.

elvendrummer87

03-19-2003, 08:10 PM

i'd like to join a group but there aren't many "creative writing" type people 'round here.
(i can't STAND it when people come up to me and say,"what are you reading<or writing>?" and when they look at the cover and see a fantasy kind of painting or read a bit of my fantasy story say "oh. that's not my kind of book and walk away looking at me like i have lobsters coming out of my ears. i get that ALL the time!)

Lief Erikson

03-19-2003, 08:19 PM

:eek: Jeepers! How sad; they ought to encourage you and suggest improvement if they see improvement as needed, but it's ridiculous to just stamp on someone else's inspiration. Luckily, even when I was writing at a very early age and had almost nothing in my books but fighting, people still encouraged me :). Do you have any encouragement then, besides Entmoot?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 08:25 PM

Yeah, by Heroines I meant Protaganists, like the central Characters.

I know the feeling. People sometimes act like fantasy is stupid. :( Fortunately, I don't encounter that much. My mom, although she dislikes fantasy, is supportive of my writing, and the people at my writer's group have expressed interest in reading what I'll bring.

Lief Erikson

03-19-2003, 08:27 PM

Is everyone reading each other's writing in that group, then?

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 08:33 PM

At our last meeting, we all brought something of ours, and had it read by another member of the group, while the rest jotted down thoughts, and then critiqued (The leader of the group . But I didn't get much critiquing. :( I think I intimidated them a bit by bringing my poem that had been published.

Lief Erikson

03-19-2003, 08:37 PM

That's too bad. Part 1 of my book is being critiqued by a screenplay writer, and my Dad also might help in that. He's a good writer himself, though he doesn't do much fiction. So again, I'm lucky.

Does anyone think we should start posting our own fantasy books/stories on this thread, or do you think we should ask one of the admins for a new forum?

I'm just wondering because there are a lot of writers at Entmoot, or people that are trying to write. It'd be fun to be able to share those stories, but I'm afraid they'd swamp the Fantasy/Sci-Fi forum.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 08:42 PM

I don't really know, that might be a bad idea with stuff you intend to publish, due to copyright problems.

Lief Erikson

03-19-2003, 09:07 PM

People would have to make that decision for themselves. I have no plans of posting The Uirlon Cord on such a forum, but I'd be fine with posting my short stories.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 09:09 PM

It would certainly be fun. :D

Gwaimir Windgem

03-19-2003, 09:47 PM

Hey, if they've got one for Harry Potter *cough*, why not for new fantasy stories? :D

Think you we should PM them or wot?

elvendrummer87

03-20-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
:eek: Jeepers! How sad; they ought to encourage you and suggest improvement if they see improvement as needed, but it's ridiculous to just stamp on someone else's inspiration. Luckily, even when I was writing at a very early age and had almost nothing in my books but fighting, people still encouraged me :). Do you have any encouragement then, besides Entmoot?
my mom and uncles are as obsessed with fantasy as i am;so's my aunt. at least i get support on the home-front :)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-24-2003, 12:08 AM

From the poetry thread in General Literature:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Well, here's a poem of mine. It got published in an anthology, and is copyrighted to my name, so I don't have to worry about anyone stealing it. It is a poem about Forevermore, the here-after in Lisman. It was in a way inspired by Edgar Allen Poe's "The Raven" (Awesome author. Love his works to tiny pieces. )

Forevermore
by...wouldn't you like to know!

So fair and perfect is the blessed land of Forevermore,
That holy land, that fair place of pure and holy bliss.
There, tear will drop and blood be shed never, nevermore,
Nor the old ways of yesteryear will ever again be missed.

In this unblemished, undying land of true and perfect peace,
War and famine, plague and death, will everlastingly end.
Pray that when life so sweet and good at last flies from thee,
Undying soul to Undying lands will eternally ascend.

So far and so pure is the blessed land of Forevermore,
Where crystal tear will drop and crimson blood be shed never, nevermore.

This is my poem that barely got critiqued by my group. :(

A mom obssessed with fantasy? Must be nice...not that I'd trade mine! :D

Ninquelote

03-26-2003, 01:45 PM

I like to write fantasy stories. I also like to write some Lord of The Rings poems. You can see them...

Here (http://www.fictionpress.com/profile.php?userid=297611)
and here. (http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=297611)

Gwaimir Windgem

03-26-2003, 02:36 PM

O.o

Didn't know about Lord of the Rings poems...

Lief Erikson

03-27-2003, 11:04 AM

I do like your poem, Gwaimir. I just can't think of any comments at the moment :(.

Gwaimir Windgem

03-27-2003, 04:43 PM

Thanks, Lief. :) You're not alone; only one person at my writer's group actually came up with a critique, as I can remember. :p The rest just said that they liked it a lot, and liked the imagery, etc. Which of course is just fine. :)

Kalile

03-28-2003, 12:11 AM

I have about a gazillion plots in my head, and ten times as many complete characters. :rolleyes: I can't get things done. Stupid schoolwork!:mad:

Gwaimir Windgem

03-28-2003, 11:18 AM

O, I know what you mean. Except I put my plots down in computer documents. But it's been a long time since I've actually written something. :(

BTW, Welcome to the Entmoot! :D

Lalaith_Elf

03-30-2003, 04:45 AM

hiya peeps......... i'm back.......... MWHAHAHAHAHAHA........

sorry...... haven't been on for over a month...... too busy..... too many stories in my head....... i've just started a new one and i've even started drawing the characters which i usually do at the end.......:)

Gwaimir Windgem

04-04-2003, 07:41 PM

Update on magic system: I'm adding a form of magic inspired by what little I know/have heard of Kabbalah; a kind of "holy" magic based around the invocation of various names of Eltarn. I'm not sure if it will replace the more "neutral" magic in my world ATM, or if it will be in there besides it, like darker magicks. I'm also unsure whether it will be practiced by wizard-types, or monastics/specific order or orders of monastics.

Ninquelote

04-04-2003, 11:40 PM

Bleh, I've never used magic in my fantasy writing. There's just too many rules in the wrong places and not enough rules in the right. Like, I don't see the point of putting up walls if someone can walk through 'em.

Earniel

04-05-2003, 04:40 AM

LOL! That's a very practical view, Ninquelote. :D

Lief Erikson

04-05-2003, 11:49 AM

Yep :). Just a matter, then, of how much effort you're willing to expend upon that. I personally have found it well worth the effort, because I enjoy making up my magical system :D.

Yesterday while my younger brothers and sister were watching Star Wars, I lay on my bed in the back bedroom and made a battle strategy. It couldn't be just any old battle strategy though, because I had to eliminate the support sources for my queen. I had to accomplish several various things, and I may have to add a few scenes into the book. Not that I mind though, because they'd be exciting scenes, not boring-but-necessary ones.

Making that map was interesting, but I still have another thing to work out. I have to make a reason for a queen and her army to march out to a volatile country. She supports neither of the factions that are warring in that faction, but the primary reason would be chasing another queen and her army there. I need to think hard on that issue, still.

That was my most recent development. What improvements has everyone made of late to their plots, books or stories?

Or should I bother with asking yet? I haven't given up on that Writer's Forum, even though I can't see the progress. I'm getting impatient, not knowing if anything is going on.

Ninquelote

04-05-2003, 08:16 PM

I usually try to avoid magic. If I use a race that always uses magic, I find a way to render them magicless. Like I had a Drow character. Drow are known to use magic, and I used a bunch of Drow. So I made them situated on the surface, when the sun drained their power.

Aralyn

04-06-2003, 02:20 PM

I make my characters have limitations on thier magic. Like if they can stop time or whatever they have to have a certain necklace or something. BUt Magic is hard to work with (In stories I mean:D )

Laurus Nobilis

04-06-2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Aralyn
I make my characters have limitations on thier magic.

I think that's one of the most important things to have in mind when you deal with magic in stories. If your characters can use magic to solve every problem, then you have a very boring plot! :p

For example, I have a character who can control several elements, and he was getting out of hand. So I had to ask myself, what can't he do? And it turned out that he can't hurt a soul- it's not in his nature to attack living beings, not even a troll/orc/whatever who's attacking him. That made things more interesting, since it was harder for him to get out sticky situations.

Lief Erikson

04-07-2003, 02:37 AM

:) That's a good idea. It's definitely useful to have pre-defined what your characters can or cannot do. Making things up as one goes along can be a tougher road . . . I'm on it right now :(.

I'm actually not making things up as I'm going along in the way of "inventing something whenever I need to," but I'm still working upon my thesis for magic. Rather than the specific magical powers, I'm working on the structure. I probably should also make a list for myself of what powers exist, and what varieties of magical items exist. That would be very useful, I expect.

Laurus, is your character that doesn't like to kill a different sort of race, or is it simply his philosophy against killing?

Ninquelote

04-07-2003, 12:37 PM

I remember I tried to incorperate magic into one of my stories, and my friend read it and told me that the rules of magic made what I did impossible.

What I did was, had a person never die because their soul was placed within an item. If the item was destroyed, then they were destroyed. However, one could tear up their body in as many ways as possible, but they wouldn't die. (Perhaps renderred immobile, but not dead.)

Gwaimir Windgem

04-07-2003, 02:59 PM

Well, that person is wrong. :) The rules of magic are entirely up to the writer or the creator. They would be very different in Middle-earth than they would be in Forgotten Realms, for example. And as your world is neither of those, the rules of magic would be up to you. :)

Laurus Nobilis

04-07-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Laurus, is your character that doesn't like to kill a different sort of race, or is it simply his philosophy against killing?

A bit of both. :)

He belongs to a race I made up that has very close contact with nature. He understands the "languages" of all animals and plants, so he sees there's life in everything- and that's why he decides not to kill anything.

TheWhiteRider

04-07-2003, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Laurus Nobilis
A bit of both. :)

He belongs to a race I made up that has very close contact with nature. He understands the "languages" of all animals and plants, so he sees there's life in everything- and that's why he decides not to kill anything.

that reminds me of the Shadow War trilogy. The main character is very close to nature, and the difference between her and her nemisis is that she asked the forces of nature to help her, instead of commanding them.

TheWhiteRider

04-07-2003, 06:03 PM

I have written a short stories for school just last year, which is about four and a half pages typed. I am now writing a short story on my own which is inspired by, and contains some races from, lord of the rings, but contains no actual caracters. Havent gotten a chance to read all of the other's stories, but I will tonight!

Agalayth

04-07-2003, 07:29 PM

I like to write fantasy stories, but I haven't in a while. I have many ideas and have brainstormed countless times. I just never get around to the actual writing. I've also thought of many names for characters, one of which is the name I chose for this forum, Agalayth. (He's a High Elf who goes bad basically.)

Silverstripe

04-10-2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Yep :). Just a matter, then, of how much effort you're willing to expend upon that. I personally have found it well worth the effort, because I enjoy making up my magical system :D.

Yesterday while my younger brothers and sister were watching Star Wars, I lay on my bed in the back bedroom and made a battle strategy. It couldn't be just any old battle strategy though, because I had to eliminate the support sources for my queen. I had to accomplish several various things, and I may have to add a few scenes into the book. Not that I mind though, because they'd be exciting scenes, not boring-but-necessary ones.

Making that map was interesting, but I still have another thing to work out. I have to make a reason for a queen and her army to march out to a volatile country. She supports neither of the factions that are warring in that faction, but the primary reason would be chasing another queen and her army there. I need to think hard on that issue, still.

That was my most recent development. What improvements has everyone made of late to their plots, books or stories?

Or should I bother with asking yet? I haven't given up on that Writer's Forum, even though I can't see the progress. I'm getting impatient, not knowing if anything is going on.

Hmmm ... when I'm writing, I actually seem to spend most of my time coming up with a world's history, and that's when I decide

1) Does this world have magic?
2) WHO, exactly, has magic?
3) How long has the magic been there?

because, of course, it will be important to the history to decide these things.

And once I start working on the magical system, I have to answer other questions.

1) What can the magical characters absolutely NOT do?
2) What can the magical characters USUALLY not do?
3) What can most of the magical characters not do?
4) What can only be done under certain circumstances? By certain races?
5) What can usually, but not always, be done?
6) What can the magical characters almost ALWAYS do?

and then, of course, after I've established what's possible and what isn't... there is, of course, "what is necessary to be magical or use/perform magic." So far, in all my worlds that have had magic, it's been innate. But the REQUIREMENTS for magic, as well as what can/cannot be done, are very different in each world, just as the histories are very different.

Lief Erikson

04-11-2003, 01:30 AM

Yes, those are good questions. When I do mine in that kind of depth, I'll probably simply ask myself what the characters certainly can do. My kind of magic is technical on the surface level, but it does go a lot deeper than that. On a level that isn't very often glimpsed in my book, there is a spirit realm that is very active. That is also related to the magic.

Silverstripe, have you made many magical worlds or histories? It sounds like you've got your system down :).

Silverstripe

04-11-2003, 01:37 AM

My problem is that I do create the history and magical systems for a lot of worlds, but then I have trouble writing the actual story (the "history textbook" effect). Or I do start writing the story, but don't usually finish it. Right now I'm trying to work on just one project, though I'm basically having to do two. I've actually finished a few stories, though.

Lief Erikson

04-11-2003, 03:43 AM

Perhaps then you just need a style switch :). Rather than doing first, second or third person, why don't you godmode :D? Be the narrator, and narrate events in people's lives. The first book of the Earthsea trilogy is my favorite because of the narrative style; great things can be done that way. The Silmarillion is the same, and that's another book I really love :). Main characters are definitely possible to establish in that kind of a writing, and that sounds like it's the way you're aimed.

Willow Oran

04-18-2003, 12:40 AM

Do any of you have tips for writing believable battle scenes? I'm working on a novel lenght fiction piece and one of the key points is a battle. I have the set up and the events for the scene planned out but I'm a bit stuck on how to write it because the key events happen from several different points of view and because I'm not sure how to write a battle without the scene becoming cliched or over dramatic.

Lief Erikson

04-18-2003, 01:48 AM

About how many points of view, and are you going to be having to write from each of those characters' perspectives?

Entlover

04-18-2003, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by Willow Oran
Do any of you have tips for writing believable battle scenes? .

Battles are one of the hardest things to write. When I did one recently I first reread some of JRR's battle scenes to get in the mindset.
I did it all from the point of view of the hero, sort of looking over his shoulder, because I didn't want to skip around. He had to see some things out of the corner of his eye -- some things were just indicated, since he couldn't be everywhere.

CS Lewis says if you just describe what you want to tell, and don't worry about being original, you will be original 9 times out of 10.

Lief Erikson

04-18-2003, 11:13 AM

I always do my battles from the perspective of one of the army leaders. The top general of one of the sides is the most common perspective for me, because that way I have active control of the battle. I can direct it and keep the audience aware of the different troop movements, and of what caused what. I tend to look at the battles from more of a strategic perspective, though I do also write some of the the grunt fighting. Sometimes the top general or his party gets involved in the fighting, and that's usually where the first hand fighting takes place.

Willow Oran

04-18-2003, 06:19 PM

There are at least four points of view, there are several things happening that the reader needs to be aware of. The actual setting of the battle stretches out for about three miles and it's an ambush in the middle of a forest so it'll be impossible for one character to see everything that happens and the points of views belong mostly to characters who will be getting killed off in a following battle scene. Bit of a nasty set up to write but it's the one that works best for the plot.

Lief Erikson

04-18-2003, 07:04 PM

And you aren't telling the story from a narrative point of view, correct? Well, that is tough. You could have messengers or people from other parts of the battle tell what's going on to them, or the main characters (Who are still alive) could just find out what happened in the battle afterwards. That would add the feeling of confusion into the battle, with the normal troops not being sure what's going on.

I have two forest battle scenes in my book, one of them an ambush and the other not. In both of them, I wrote from the perspective of the commanders. J.R.R. Tolkien wrote from an overall perspective. Sort of a bird's eye view of the battlefield, telling what was going on, and then zeroing in on specific scenes. He wrote the battle from overall narrative and then switched on and off from certain people's perspectives. In my battles, I tend to go only from the perspectives of different characters; I never do narrative like that in my book. That's why I have to go from the generals' perspectives, because they are always well informed on what's happening in the battle.

If you're only going from the perspectives of different characters, then it's important for them to become informed of what's going on. I think narrative writing is the only other alternative.

If you only have fighters in the battle, no narrating and no informed people, then I have no advice to give you.

In the ambush in the forest that happened in my book, that was only part of the battle. I really enjoy going from my general's perspective, and then having messengers constantly relaying orders from him and messages to him from the battlefield. So even though he can hardly see anything that's going on, he's always aware.

I had to think on the practical side as I was considering that. How could a general in fantasy time period know where all of his units are and what's happening with them?

Willow Oran

04-20-2003, 01:30 AM

It's definitely not just fighters, half the people involved are civilians as they were in the process of moving to a more defensible city. The ideas with the messangers or having the surviving characters find out about what happened afterwards are good ones. Thanks for the advice, it's helped a lot.

Lief Erikson

04-20-2003, 01:39 AM

Good :). Glad to be of service.

Laurus Nobilis

04-20-2003, 03:17 PM

Battles are awfully hard to write!

I know it's amateurish, but... I usually get ideas for battle strategies from playing Age of Empires II. :o

Lief Erikson

04-20-2003, 03:28 PM

I've played enough games with my brothers and sisters in which I have to invent strategies that I don't often have too much trouble with them.

One of the people who's reading Part 1 of my unpublished novel, The Uirlon Cord, has offered me the constructive criticism that I tend to get too technical with the battle scenes. Of course, the part of it that he's reading at the moment was stuff that I wrote about two years ago, so I don't know if that difficulty is still a problem with me or not.

Gwaimir Windgem

04-20-2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Laurus Nobilis
Battles are awfully hard to write!

I know it's amateurish, but... I usually get ideas for battle strategies from playing Age of Empires II. :o

Hmm...it's a great game, and it's quite historical from what I've seen...might actually be a good idea...

I've only done one battle scene, and I just threw it together. That is, if "battle scene" includes small-scale fights, like around 10-12 people...Fortunately (I mean UNfortunately;)) it's no longer with us.

Lief Erikson

04-20-2003, 05:18 PM

I tend to count those more as skirmishes, or fights. They are definitely fight scenes, but I think of a battle as a bigger affair than that.

Is that computer game a PC game, or Windows?

Gwaimir Windgem

04-20-2003, 05:36 PM

In my first book/series, I plan for there to be one or two of those. But not much otherwise that I can think of...I haven't done any of those yet.

On second thought, I did once, a VERY long time ago, in the VERY early version of The Return (aka Lawbringers, Return of the Scrolls, third book in the Scrolls of Law Trilogy). Gosh, that sucked...:o But I don't remember how I did it.

Um...I'm not sure, but I think Windows runs on PC's...:confused: Anywho, I play(ed) it on a PC with the Windows operating system.

IronParrot

04-20-2003, 05:50 PM

Hi guys,

Now that the separate writer's forum has been created, I was wondering what your thoughts were on whether or not this thread should be left open. There is a wealth of material here that could now be spread out over several threads and given more room to move, but at the same time, this is an ongoing discussion and maybe you'd like to keep it alive.

Padlock or no?

Ninquelote

04-21-2003, 07:48 PM

Nah, man, fantasy is a genre onto itself, so fantasy writing under the general 'writer's workshop' would be apropriate.

Lalaith_Elf

04-28-2003, 12:46 PM

hehehe.... just an extract from one of my storys...... watch i have copywrite on this....:p

"She sighed as she sat in the darkness of the forest. No words could describe the way she felt. The crimson sun rose over the tress as she blinked suprised. She had been sitting thinking all night, the time had passed so quickly. A horn sounded in the distant but was cut short. She couldn't do much now. It was over. The horn was the last cry for help and she was the only one who heard it. They were all gone now. She couldn't help anymore. It was over, she couldn't wander forever, her time was over too. They would come this way and she would be spotted. She wasn't someone who hid. She took off her weapons and sighed again. She was the last of her kind. The shadows drew across her face as she heard a noise below. She smiled as she felt a sharp pain in the back of her neck. Her eyes misted over as she saw the gates opened. They were all stood there welcoming her.......... "

okay not good i know.... but it's a first draft and i was board when i wrote this piece... and in a very morbid mood!!!

comments if you would be so kind:D

Dreran the Green

04-28-2003, 04:23 PM

No, I think it's good:) It sounds like something I'd like to read, just guessing from that passage.

................I don't do a lot of writing outside poetry, which I do a lot of, but right now I'm working on a fantasy/adventure/romance. Its very fun to write but also very difficult because I'm so critical of what I create. I'm always comparing it to LotR, even though it's not much like it at all.

Lalaith_Elf

04-28-2003, 04:28 PM

why thank you...... haven't had much time to write recently.... *mutters* stupid exams:eek:

Lalaith_Elf

04-28-2003, 04:37 PM

didn't write all i wanted to in that post.. opps

i always compare my work to that of others, but really you shouldn't, especially not to the likes of tolkien...... remember LOTR's was like a life time of work and he was a genius (in my opinion.... and alot of others).... :D i'm sure your a great writer:p

Dreran the Green

04-28-2003, 05:02 PM

:) Thanks!:)
I know, probably no one should compare their writing to Tolkien's (except those working on the script for the movies), but it's hard when righting fantasy. Like if one of your characters happens to be immortal or something like that, you just keep comparing her to Legolas or Galadriel, which just doesn't work because she's not even an elf.
Oops. Just started a ramble about my story. Heehee:)

Is there a thead somewhere with more of your writing? It sound cool so far, I'd like to see more:)

Lalaith_Elf

04-29-2003, 02:59 AM

no i don't have any more posted... most of my stuff is personal but i'm gonna start writing un-personal stuff (is that a word :cool: ).
i've had to put my writing on hold because of stupid gcse exams!!!!! but they'll be over in about a month and a bit so i'll start again, and i might post some on the internet.:D

i'd like to read a bit of yours.... i love reading-specially fantasy :D

Dreran the Green

04-29-2003, 06:20 PM

Well, Ok. I thought I had to go to a school ceremony thingy, but its not until later so I have a little time. Anyway, here is one of the more recent excerpts from my story. Its just a scratch copy right now, so I'm afraid its not very good, but you can read it anyway.

By the way, I haven't shown this to other writers before, so opinions and suggestions please:D

*clears throat*:

All light had faded but that of the fair moon and stars, sending down their silver glow to kiss the warm night. Krylla stepped lightly out into the garden of Elquael. The cobblestone path was smooth under her bare feet, but not cold, for it was summer. Breezes scented with the perfumes of different flowers rushed past her. She giggled quietly to herself, knowing she could not be found in this beautiful maze. She was too clever a huntress to let anyone find her, not until she spotted them and surprised them by bursting from the bushes and laughing. It was what she did for fun in this garden. Tonight, though, she had only one person she wanted to find.

Well, that was shorter than I had hoped, but you get my general writing style anyway, though most of the story is rather more action-driven. Whadya think?