Frodo-Gollum parallels

[FrodoFriend]

Did anyone else notice how similar Frodo and Gollum's eyes looked in TT?

I always thought the relationship and the similarities between the two was fascinating... imagine going on this journey to Mordor with a living specimen at your side of what the Ring will do to you given enough time.

I think it's interesting that Smeagol really repented for a while - a much longer while than in the book, which lasted for about a minute... personally, I find his almost-redemption and following relapse one of the most tragic parts of LotR. Poor Gollum. :(

Any opinions?

[LuthienTinuviel]

i so agree with you, FF.

it's nice to have you back by the way,

i liked the part where frodo is arguing with sam about not understanding what the ring is doing to gollum.
frodo says he has to believe he can help him, because frodo wants to believe that everything will be alright for himself in the long run, the physical thing withthe eyes is something i overlooked, but it's a brilliant point nonetheless.

[FrodoFriend]

Yeah, that's the part I mean! It really helped me to understand Frodo's character even more (not that I need all that much more understanding after years of adoration.... :D ), and it makes Gollum much more sympathetic as well.

It's nice to be back too! :)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I agree, I've only been quite saddened by his near-redemption. :( *sniffs and goes to bawl in the corner*

Also, I was gonna make a new topic, but since there's this convenient one here I'll post here:

Why did PJ not give Gollum greenlit eyes? Since the whole character was computer animated, I would think it would have been easy to add this, so why not? And please no answers like, "Because he's stupid" "Because PJ sux" "Because PJ is God" "Because Tolkien sux, and PJ knows what's best."

Real ideas and thoughts, please. Thank you! :)

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Why did PJ not give Gollum greenlit eyes? Since the whole character was computer animated, I would think it would have been easy to add this, so why not?Since they decided to base the character on Sirkus, I think they decided to make him more "human" looking, especially since the real Andy Sirkus will be shown in the next film. The big eyes could be explained by all the years that Gollum spent in near total darkness. But how would a green glow be explained? While they wanted Gollum to look...well, Gollum-like, I think they still wanted the character have a sense of realism about him.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The Green glow came from the evil that the Ring instilled in him, I believe. And isn't a bad move to change the appearance of a character halfway through the series?

[Evenstar1400]

one of the actors said they were trying to make the movie more like a history than a fantasy. the fact that his eyes were green made the movie seem more fantastical, not as realistic. pj couldhave also been trying to make gollum seem more hobbit like, and make his evil-kinda good-evil switch seem more close at home to people who think they have problems in life.

ack im just confusing myself

[dragonlilly]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The Green glow came from the evil that the Ring instilled in him, I believe. And isn't a bad move to change the appearance of a character halfway through the series?

why green light? how in a tolkien world is anything green , evil? green light was used in John Boorman's "Excalibur " to show the power of the sword over men. it was eerie even mystical in a treeish sort of way. the pj gollum was not meant to be scary like the animated hobbit's gollum which gave me nightmares ( i was eight when i saw it) and i NEVER forgot him, but pitiful--
remember the pity of Bilbo.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hmm, so my brother isn't alone in fearing Gollum! :D But if I am correct, then whenever "Slinker" took over, it was as if a pale green lamp was lit behind his eyes.

So it's another case of PJ's exalted ego telling him he's better than Tolkien, and knows better how the characters should be portrayed? *sigh*

And don't Wizards, Elves, and Balrogs rather make it a fantastical setting?

[samwise of the shire]

I think that there was still a gleam in gollums eyes when he was ticked off or talked about his Preciouss...it was just a blue gleam. I also seem to remember reading somewhere that they were trying to show the audience what would happen to Frodo if he kept the Ring.
There were alot of similarities in Frodo's demeanor and attitude and Gollums. I.E When Frodo's petting the Ring you KNOW what he's thinking just by the way he says "What did you say" to Gollum just after Gollum said "So bright. So beautiful", or when he and Sam are talkin' about Slinker/Stinker you can definitely see the double personality coming on. He reprimands Sam gently about "running him down", then gets a LITTLE on the offensive side when Sam says "It's what he is", but when the Ring comes into it Frodo gets REALLY scary with the "It's mine. My own", the scowl, jumping in Sams face, and then stalking off the hill without talking to Sam bit...THAT got my attention cause I hadn't really seen Frodo so mad since...since Boromir was trying to take the Ring from him...that was a year or so ago.
Cheers,
Sam

[cassiopeia]

In the Hobbit is says:
He [Bilbo] turned now and saw Gollum's eyes like small green lamps coming up the slope.
Bilbo crept away from the wall more quietly than a mouse; but Gollum stiffened at once, and sniffed, and his eyes went green.
Actually, I don't mind that Gollum's eyes arn't green, I think PJ wanted people to sympathise with Gollum and having glowing green eyes would not yield sympathy.
The Sam/Frodo/Gollum scenes are my favorite from TTT. I think Frodo's scared that he might become like Gollum, and so hopes that by helping Gollum redeem himself, he might survive the effects of the ring.

[Wayfarer]

Gollums eyes do glow green in the FOTRM though. Check out his moria scene.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
In the Hobbit is says:

quote:
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He [Bilbo] turned now and saw Gollum's eyes like small green lamps coming up the slope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
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Bilbo crept away from the wall more quietly than a mouse; but Gollum stiffened at once, and sniffed, and his eyes went green.
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maybe its the biologist in me but i always saw these references to glowing eyes as simply a biological adaptation to living in absolute darkness for hundreds of years. bioluminesence i think its called. i mean if deep sea fish can do it then why not gollum. especially with the physical form changing power of the ring. maybe in another 1000 years he would have grown headlights.

[Wayfarer]

You're saying that you think he had pockets of bioluminescent bacteria in the back of his eyes.

Okay...

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
You're saying that you think he had pockets of bioluminescent bacteria in the back of his eyes.

Okay...

no its more like what cats and some other mammals can do. you see they have a substance on the back of their retina that acts as a reflector of light so that they can see with significantly less lumens available to them. this substance is almost mirror like in consistancy and is why if you ever shine a light on a cat or many other mammals at night their eyes light up. because the light is bouncing off that mirror back to your eyes. same idea here. gollum can see better in the dark due to the same development. also why he hates bright light. i mean if the ring has allowed him to develop the bone and muscle structure to creep around in tight places like an animal then why not improve his vision too. understand?

[FrodoFriend]

I assumed they only glow green when he's in the dark and he's angry at the same time. In Moria they looked like that because Moria is, well, dark, and he was after the ring. In TT his eyes should have been glowing when he was fighting with Sam and Frodo at night, but with all the action I didn't notice.... then when he was at the Forbidden Pool eating the fish, it was dark, but he seemed rather happy, so they wouldn't have been glowing, right?

In the daytime he really is a much less fearsome character. When Smeagol was having the conversation with Gollum, Smeagol looked almost cute compared to his other half. You can hardly help pitying him. Imaging it from Frodo's point of view... no wonder he couldn't give up on Gollum. And Smeagol really seems to care about Master, even if Gollum doesn't. It's almost sweet in a tragic and pathetic way, the two of them . . . like a twisted version of Frodo's friendship with Sam. Twisted by the Ring, of course.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

If I remember correctly, at both the Slinker/Stinker dialogues, his eyes glowed green.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
But if I am correct, then whenever "Slinker" took over, it was as if a pale green lamp was lit behind his eyes.

So it's another case of PJ's exalted ego telling him he's better than Tolkien, and knows better how the characters should be portrayed? *sigh*

And don't Wizards, Elves, and Balrogs rather make it a fantastical setting? PJ is probably one of the few famous film directors in the world that doesn't have an exalted ego.

PJ's "original" Gollum did have green glowing eyes. The change was made when Jackson decided to have Gollum patterned after Andy Sirkus.

[Wayfarer]

Oh, and you're just such an objective judge of character.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

LOL, good one, BB! :D

[FrodoFriend]

It doesn't have anything to do with ego. Both Tolkien and PJ are entertainers and artists, and PJ has every right to change details of the story in order to bring to light a new interpretation, or simply to his taste. U2 and Jimi Hendrix's versions of 'All Along the Watchtower' are different from the original Bob Dylan, but that doesn't mean they're worse, or that the artists didn't have the right to change them (in keeping with copyright laws, of course).