LOTR in Other Languages

[Jonathan]

Three rings for the elf kings' power up in the blue,
seven for the dwarf counts in the halls of stone,
nine for the mortals, who the road of the flesh shall go,
one for the lord of the darkness in the dim light of the evil
in the giddy mine of the Mordorland.

One ring to unify them,
one ring to promote them,
one ring to deep in the wide country
of the darkness tame them -
in the land of Mordor where the shadows brood...

This is a direct translation from the Swedish version of LotR. Those Entmoot members who have read LotR in another language than English, you are welcome to post your language's versions of different LotR quotes.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Jonathan
This is a direct translation from the Swedish version of LotR. I'm glad you pointed out that that's a direct translation, because often when one translates things word for word, directly, it doesn't make much sense in another language. I know this first-hand, because I know a lot of French. So yeah, that's interesting to see what the Swedish means when you translate it directly, but I'm pretty sure that if you're Swedish and you read that it seems closer to the English. (like does it *really* mean "in the giddy mine of the Mordorland"?) I hope people understand what I'm trying to say; this post doesn't seem to make much sense, although, I tried.

[azalea]

So is it because there is no Swedish word for "find," for instance, which I find hard to believe, or is it done for rhyming purposes?

[Earniel]

"nine for the mortals, who the road of the meat shall go,"

the road of the meat?

rather hilarious IMO. :D

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by azalea
So is it because there is no Swedish word for "find," for instance, which I find hard to believe, or is it done for rhyming purposes?
Of course there is a Swedish word for "find" :D It's just that throughout the books, the Swedish translator has altered the poems and quotes to make them look better in Swedish. You could say it is done for rhyming purposes, yes.

[Artanis]

*not smiling anymore but rotfl*
Jonathan, I see your point. I'm very curious, could you please PM me the Swedish version? I must know where you get the word 'meat' from. In the Norwegian version it says 'kjød', which is something different. And 'giddy mine'? And those poor Elf kings 'up in the blue'. :D

Direct translations are truly hilarious. :D

[Falagar]

PM one to me too then! This I must see...:D

[Dúnedain]

Heck with pm'ing it, post it! lol, the road of meat rules!!! LOL :D

[Jonathan]

There seems to be a great demand for a Swedish version of the "One ring to rule them all"-quote. Here it comes :D

Tre ringar för alvkungar högt i det blå, (up in the blue)
sju för dvärgarnas furstar i salarna av sten,
nio för de dödliga som köttets väg ska gå, (the road of the meat)
en för Mörkrets herre i ondskans dunkla sken
i Mordorlandets hisnande gruva. (giddy mine)
En ring att sämja dem,
en ringa tt främja dem,
en ring att djupt i mörkrets vida riken tämja dem -
i Mordors land, där skuggorna ruva...

"Up in the blue" should maybe have been "high in the blue".

Artanis, I believe that the Norwegian word "kjød" and the Swedish word "kött" have the same meaning.
Instead of "the road of the meat", I should maybe have written "the road/way of the flesh".

About the "giddy mine", I didn't know which word to use. Maybe it should be "dizzy" or "vertigious". I lack sufficient knowledge of English to choose the right word :D

Hey, you Norwegian guys! Can't you post the Norwegian version of the same text? I believe that the Norwegian version ressembels the original text more than the Swedish one, I think that there are fewer adjustments in the Norwegian text.

[Artanis]

Sure!

"Tre ringer for alvene under det blå;
sju er for dvergene i saler av sten;
ni for menn som all kjødets gang må gå.
Men for Mørkets Herre en eneste én
i det dunkle Mordor hvor skyggene rår.
Én ring skal samle dem, én Ring finne dem,
én Ring betvinge dem og i mørket binde dem
i det dunkle Mordor hvor skyggene rår."

Artanis, I believe that the Norwegian word "kjød" and the Swedish word "kött" have the same meaning. Instead of "the road of the meat", I should maybe have written "the road/way of the flesh".Yes, but the swedish word "kött" does also really mean meat, doesn't it?

[Dúnedain]

I really don't know why, but the whole "road of meat" thing keeps cracking me up, lol!! :p

[Jonathan]

Wow, I liked the Norwegian version :D

Originally posted by Artanis
Yes, but the swedish word "kött" does also really mean meat, doesn't it? "Kött" means both flesh and meat. Doesn't the Norwegian word "kjød" also mean flesh and meat? Is there a different Norwegian word for "flesh"?

[Artanis]

kjød = flesh
kjøtt = meat
:)

[Jonathan]

kjød, kjøtt... Big difference, why have two separate words when you could have only one of them? :D

[Artanis]

This is really unbelievable! We're discussing swedish and norwegian words - in English! LOL!

[Jonathan]

Jeg kan ikke og liker ikke å snakke norsk, so I speak English instead :D

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Jeg kan ikke og liker ikke å snakke norskThat statement is a proof against the first part of the same statement. :D

Jag är formögligen ennu verre till at prata svenska :)

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Artanis
Jag är formögligen ennu verre till at prata svenska :) Well, it was a very nice try. Any Swede would understand your Swedish.
Hey, I should try reading LotR in Norwegian someday, that might be fun :D

[Artanis]

Thanks. :)

No, I don't think you should read it in Norwegian, you should read it in English, if you haven't already done so. My guess is that you will get a different feeling of the book. The 'flavour' of the language in the original version is not easily translated into Norwegian, and I don't think the Norwegian translation is very good in that respect. :( But maybe the Swedish translation is better.

[Jonathan]

I haven't read LotR in English, so I have nothing to compare the Swedish version to. But you're right, I should read the books in their original language.

[Shadowfax]

Yes, read it in English; you will like it very much!

[congressmn]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Yes, read it in English; you will like it very much!

Read in English and chill.

Translations are never 100% true to the original. I am sure the Swedish translator got it quite wrong, or maybe not its just the direct translations by Jonathan that is so hilarious.

maybe he shud try to translate the entire Swedish version. LoL that would be quite something.

I can imagine somthing like this :
"from the ashes a light shall be woke"
"A fire fron the shadows shall spring"

ok not funny. lets wait for jonathan's translation. Would u do us the honor Jonathan?

[Baby-K]

I can't say that we have LotR in any other languages besides English here - which is probably a good thing since it would be a helluva task trying to translate it to the 10 other official languages in SA. Perhaps we should translate it to funnagalo (can't spell that).

[Falagar]

Read LotR in both English and Norwegian, and of course english is best.

[Earniel]

to add to the confusion: The Dutch translation. :)

Drie Ringen voor de Elfenkoningen op aard'
Zeven voor de Dwergenvorsten in hun zalen schoon,
Negen voor de Mensen, die de dood niet spaart,
Eén voor de Zwarte Heerser op zijn zwarte troon
In Mordor, waar de schimmen zijn
Eén Ring om allen te regeren, Eén Ring om hen te vinden,
Eén Ring die hen brengen zal en in de duisternis binden,
In Mordor, waar de schimmen zijn.

The 'direct' English translation.

Three Rings for the Elvenkings on earth,
Seven for the Dwarvenmonarchs in their halls fair,
Nine for the Men who death doesn't spare,
One for the Black Ruler in his black throne
In Mordor, where the shadows are
One Ring to rule all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring that shall bring them and in the darkness bind,
In Mordor, where the schadows are.

Well, direct translation is perhaps a little off, since I had to change the sytaxis in the translation to make a more or less normal English sentence. In the Dutch translation, the verb is put sometimes at the end of the sentence, especially in the last sentences.

The Dutch word 'heerser' could also signify 'lord' but 'ruler is a more closer translation. The same thing goes for 'vorst' which could also be translated as 'king' or 'lord' but leans closer to the meaning of 'sovereign' of 'monarch'.

And by now I bet everone has already fallen asleep. :p

[Coney]

This thread reminds me of the Chef character in the Muppets:eek: (no offence intended).

Still I shouldn't draw comparisons.......I have trouble with my native language, never mind any others:o

[Artanis]

Eärniel, it's amazing how written Dutch resembles Norwegian. I think I could have guessed most of the meaning of that verse, if I hadn't known it before.

Now if you had spoken the verse in Dutch, it would have been another story :D

Baby-K, forgive my ignorance, but is English your native language?

[FrodoFriend]

Ooh, I'd better find a Hungarian copy and see what the verse is like...

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by congressmn
maybe he shud try to translate the entire Swedish version. LoL that would be quite something.NO, I will not post a direct translation of the entire Swedish version, do you have any idea of how much time that kind of work would consume? :D
Did you know that if you say "I know you" in Sweden and translates the sentence word by word into English, you get this: "I feel again you"?

Eärniel, I really liked the Dutch version. I was almost able to read it in Dutch :D

Coney, The Chef of the Muppets is Swedish, right?
Something just came to my mind; Just as every mad scientist you can see on TV talks with a German accent, the Reaper (Death) talks with a Swedish accent :D (Thanks to the Swedish director Ingmar Bergman's film "The Seventh Seal")

[Shadowfax]

Okay, here's the French version:

Trois anneaux pour les Rois Elfes sous le soleil,
Sept pour les Seigneurs Nains dans leurs demeures de pierre,
Neuf pour les Hommes mortels, destinés au trépas,
Un pour le Seigneur ténébreux sur son sombre trône
Dans le pays de Mordor où s'étendent les ombres,
Un anneau pour les gouverner tous,
Un anneau pour les trouver,
Un anneau pour les amener tous et dans les ténèbres les lier
Au pays de Mordor où s'étendent les ombres.


And here's the direct translation:

Three rings for the Elf Kings under the sun,
Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their residences of stone,
Nine for the mortal Men, destined to death,
One for the dark Lord on his dark throne
In the country of Mordor where the shadows extend,
One ring to govern them all,
One ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the dark bind them
In the country of Mordor where the shadows extend.

That's pretty close to the English, wouldn't you say?

[Earniel]

Now if you had spoken the verse in Dutch, it would have been another story

Yes, I guess it would. Too bad, I can't let you hear it. Dutch vowels sound often very different from the way English vowels are pronounced.

I'm not suprised you can understand much of it, a girl I knew from Danemark could also understand much of what I said in Dutch, probably because it's close to German in many aspects.

Ooh, thank you for the French translation, Shadowfax! That I can read! :D

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Well, I never read the Lord of the Rings in Portugal, but I did pick up a copy of the Silmarillion and read it a bit at Jumbo! If I remember, here's the way it went:

No principio, fosse o Unico, que chamam-se Iluvatar na lingua elfica...

That's all I remember: It was a long time ago: The translation comes out to this:

In the beginning, there was the Only/Unique, whom they called Iluvatar in the elfic tongue...

Not too bad.

[LuthienTinuviel]

oops double post.
stupid 90 second rule

[LuthienTinuviel]

oh god, coney, your avatar! PLASTIC JESUS! that's the name of the demo tape that my best bud scott is doing!

anyways, i should get it in spanish... lemme go see if i's can do it. and it might take me awhile, but i can probably also get it in german too... maybe.
this is the sweetest thread ever, i love reading things in other languages.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Artanis
Eärniel, it's amazing how written Dutch resembles Norwegian. I think I could have guessed most of the meaning of that verse, if I hadn't known it before.

Now if you had spoken the verse in Dutch, it would have been another story :D

Baby-K, forgive my ignorance, but is English your native language?

Nope - English is my second language - I am actually Afrikaans, but English & some african languages were compulsory subjects at school, so I speak English & Afrikaans fluently & I can get on in Zulu & Northern Sotho. I was looking at translating the first quote you guys posted, but I wouldn't be able to do it justice as I would have to translate to Afrikaans & from there to Zulu & Sotho, but the african languages do not have some of the words which means that you have to translate to the nearest possible word (or give a description of the thing that is being discussed) when you translate back to English it sounds more like a recipe than a LotR quote

[FrodoFriend]

OK, here's the Hungarian!

Három Gyûrû ragyogjon a tünde-királyok kezén,
Hét a nemes törpök jussa,kiknek háza cifra kõ,
Kilencet halandó ember ujján csillantson a fény,
Egyet hordjon a Sötét Úr, szolganyájat terelõ,
Mordor éjfekete földjén, sûrû árnyak mezején.
Egy Gyûrû mind fölött, Egy Gyûrû kegyetlen,
Egy a sötétbe zár, bilincs az Egyetlen,
Mordor éjfekete földjén, sûrû árnyak mezején.

Three Rings to shine in the hands of the Elven Kings,
Seven to fall to the noble Dwarves, whose houses are of gaudy stone,
Nine to kindle the light on the fingers of Mortal Men,
One for the Dark Lord to carry, some kind of deflector (?),
On Mordor's midnight-black earth, the meadow of dense shadows.
One Ring above all, One Ring unmerciful,
One to shut into darkness, the One is a manacle,
On Mordor's midnight-black earth, the meadow of dense shadows.

Pretty cool, though I'm not sure about the whole deflector thing... I couldn't figure out what szolganyájat means. :confused:

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Very nicely written, indeed (except the deflector?). While not accurate, it gives an interesting flavor of the Ring rhyme; a very interesting flavor indeed.

[Earniel]

Yes, very interesting. And a very poetic translation. "meadow of dense shadows" Pretty....

[Jonathan]

Into how many languages has LotR been translated?

[congressmn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FrodoFriend
[B]OK, here's the Hungarian!

Három Gyûrû ragyogjon a tünde-királyok kezén,
Hét a nemes törpök jussa,kiknek háza cifra kõ,
Kilencet halandó ember ujján csillantson a fény,
Egyet hordjon a Sötét Úr, szolganyájat terelõ,
Mordor éjfekete földjén, sûrû árnyak mezején.
Egy Gyûrû mind fölött, Egy Gyûrû kegyetlen,
Egy a sötétbe zár, bilincs az Egyetlen,
Mordor éjfekete földjén, sûrû árnyak mezején.

Three Rings to shine in the hands of the Elven Kings,
Seven to fall to the noble Dwarves, whose houses are of gaudy stone,
Nine to kindle the light on the fingers of Mortal Men,
One for the Dark Lord to carry, some kind of deflector (?),
On Mordor's midnight-black earth, the meadow of dense shadows.
One Ring above all, One Ring unmerciful,
One to shut into darkness, the One is a manacle,
On Mordor's midnight-black earth, the meadow of dense shadows.

ok the hungarian one beats it all.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by congressmn
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FrodoFriend
[B]ok the hungarian one beats it all. Yeah I think so too! The Hungarian version rules :D

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Into how many languages has LotR been translated? Norweigan, Swedish, French, Dutch, Hungarian, I think that's all so far, so 5 languages! Wow, this is really interesting.

[congressmn]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Norweigan, Swedish, French, Dutch, Hungarian, I think that's all so far, so 5 languages! Wow, this is really interesting.

nopes i think u r incorrect there:
you missed german.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by congressmn
nopes i think u r incorrect there:
you missed german. Where's the German one? Who posted it?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

If you mean how many languages total, I think it's like 26 or something.

[Shadowfax]

Oh, silly me; I get it now.:o I thought he meant on this thread. So yeah, I have no idea how many languages the book has been translated into. It would be cool to find out though.

[Jonathan]

I don't know about the other languages into which Tolkien's books have been translated, but in the Swedish translation many of the English names have been changed, especially names that has to do with the hobbits.
I'm going to list some of the English hobbit names and their Swedish counterparts (though I will leave out those names that are the same in both languages). I don't know if anyone is interested, but at least I'll get an overview of the names when I read LotR in English for the first time.


English ---------------------------> Swedish
Bilbo Baggins -------------------> Bilbo Bagger
Frodo Baggins ------------------> Frodo Bagger

Samwise 'Sam' Gamgee ------> Samuel 'Sam' Gamgi
Hamfast 'Gaffer' Gamgee -----> Hamfast 'Gubbtjyven' Gamgee
Rose Cotton --------------------> Rosa Kattun
Fairbairn -------------------------> Fagerkind

Meriadoc 'Merry' Brandybuck-> Meriadoc 'Merry' Vinbock
Sackville-Baggins --------------> Säcksta-Bagger
Bag End -------------------------> Baggershus
Hobbiton ------------------------> Hobsala
The Shire ------------------------> Fylke
Crickhollow ----------------------> Kricke Gryt

Some ents too:
Treebeard -----------------------> Lavskägge
Quickbeam ----------------------> Snabba Solstrålen
(The list might be updated if I feel like adding more names)

If there are other 'Mooters who have read Tolkiens books in languages in which the names have been changed or altered, feel free to post the names here.

[Elf Girl]

Heheheh! Gubbtjyven!

[Laurus Nobilis]

I have the Spanish books, and according to them, Tolkien himself wrote a "Guide to the names in LotR" so that the names that have a meaning could be translated. I think that's a really good thing, or else we'd be missing a lot of stuff! :)

Let's see what I remember from the Spanish translation:

Baggins --- Bolsón
Samwise Gamgee --- Samssagaz Gamyi (last name changed because of the pronounciation)
Gaffer Gamgee --- TÃ*o Gamyi
Rose Cotton --- Rosita Coto
Bag End --- Bolsón Cerrado
The Shire --- La Comarca
Sackville-Baggins --- Sacovilla-Bolsón
Brandybuck --- Brandigamo
Took --- Tuk (again, because of pronounciation)
Crickhollow --- Cricava
Strider --- Trancos
Shadowfax --- SombragrÃ*s
Wormtongue --- Lengua de Serpiente
Dunharrow --- El Sagrario
Entmoot --- Cámara de los Ents
Treebeard --- Bárbol

I'll add more if I remember any.

[Jonathan]

Brandybuck --- Brandigamo Brandigamo sounds much like Brandagamba. According to Tolkien, Merry's 'real' name was Kalimac Brandagamba, a name that was anglicised to better fit in the books.

Treebeard --- Bárbol Haha, the Spanish words for 'beard' (barba) and 'tree' (árbol) have been merged into Bárbol :D

[Shadowfax]

Ooh! I found a site that has it written in 24 languages! It's located here (http://www.tolkien-archives.com/library/essay_select.php?essay_id=5) :)

[Orion]

Lots of names are different also in Finnish translation, here´s some:

Bilbo Baggins - Bilbo Reppuli ("bag" means "reppu" in Finnish)
Samwise Gamgee - Samvais Gamgi
Hamfast 'Gaffer' Gamgee - Hamfast ´Ukko` Gamgi
Rose Cotton - Ruusa ...
Meriadoc 'Merry' Brandybuck - Merri Rankkibuk (that´s my fave; "rankki" is an old word for booze)
Bag End - Repunpää
Hobbiton - Hobittila
The Shire - Kontu
Crickhollow - Krikkolo
Pippin Took - Pippin Tuk
Strider - Konkari
Legolas Greenleaf - Legolas Viherlehti
Treebeard - Puuparta
Quickbeam - Äkkipää

[Orion]

Here´s also the finnish version:

Kolme sormusta haltiakuninkaille alla auringon,
seitsemän kääpiöruhtinaille kivisaleissaan,
yhdeksän ihmisille jotka vie tuoni armoton,
yksi Mustalle Ruhtinaalle valtaistuimellaan
maassa Mordorin joka varjojen saartama on.
Yksi sormus löytää heidät, se yksi heitä hallitsee,
se yksi heidät yöhön syöksee ja pimeyteen kahlitsee
maassa Mordorin joka varjojen saartama on.

Three rings for the elven kings under the sun,
seven for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone,
nine to men who will be taken by the merciless death,
one for the Black Lord in his throne
in the land of Mordor, surrounded by shadows.
One ring finds them, the one rules them,
the one sends them to the night and chains to the darkness
in the land of Mordor, surrounded by the shadows.

That sounds so clumsy when I translated it into englsih, it sounds much more beautiful in finnish. :)

[Shadowfax]

Wow, thankyou for the Finnish version, Orion! That's very interesting.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I saw the Portuguese one, and I thought I'd try my hand at translating it.

Três anéis para os Reis Elfos debaixo do céu,
Sete para os Senhores dos Anões nos seus palácios de pedra,
Nove para os Homens Mortais condenados a morrer,
Um para o Senhor das Trevas no seu negro trono
Na Terra de Mordor onde moram as Sombras.
Um anel para a todos dominar, um anel para os encontrar,
Um anel para a todos prender e nas trevas os reter
Na Terra de Mordor onde moram as Sombras.


Three Rings for the Elfin Kings underneath the sky,
Seven for the Lords of Dwarves in their palaces of stone,
Nine for the Mortal Humens condemned to die,
One for the Lord of Darkness on his black throne
In the Land of Mordor where dwell the Shadows.
Um ring to dominate all, one ring to find them,
One Ring to catch them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where dwell the Shadows.

I'm not really fluent in Portuguese, so I'm not sure about it.

I'll try to Brazilian as well:

Três anéis para os Reis- Elfos sob este céu,
Sete para os Senhores- Anões em seus rochosos corredores,
Nove para Homens Mortais, fadados ao eterno sono,
Um para o Senhor do Escuro em seu escuro trono
Na Terra de Mordor onde as Sombras se deitam.
Um anel para a todos governar, Um anel para encontrá-los,
Um anel para a todos trazer e na escuridão aprisioná-los
Na Terra de Mordor onde as sombras se deitam.


Three rings for the Elf-Kings beneath the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-Lords in their rocky halls,
Nine for Mortal Humans, fated to sleep eternal,
One for the Lord of Darkness in his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One ring to govern them all, One ring to find them,
One ring to take them all and in the darkness imprison them,
In the Land of Mordor where the shadows lie.

Again, I'm not fluent in Portuguese, so input from native speakers would be appreciated. :)

[Lanelf]

My friend was reading LOTR in French, and I recall her laughing for days over this. I forget the French for it, but the English translation:
"The next four lines are so dirty I cannot read them" - Gandalf.
:eek: Gandalf! I didn't know you read those kinds of books!
Lanelf.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Lanelf
My friend was reading LOTR in French, and I recall her laughing for days over this. I forget the French for it, but the English translation:
"The next four lines are so dirty I cannot read them" - Gandalf.
:eek: Gandalf! I didn't know you read those kinds of books!
Lanelf.

LOL. Ah, but it says they're so dirty, he cannot read them. He looked away from the naughty parts. Good Gandalf!

[azalea]

:eek: What were the dwarves doing down there? ;)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Lanelf
My friend was reading LOTR in French, and I recall her laughing for days over this. I forget the French for it, but the English translation:
"The next four lines are so dirty I cannot read them" - Gandalf.
:eek: Gandalf! I didn't know you read those kinds of books!
Lanelf.

Now we know why the Dwarves didn't marry. Their wives would have killed them for writing that! :eek:

[Nimphredil]

Here's the Estonian version

Kolm Sõrmust haldjahõimul sinitaeva all,
Seitse päkapikkudel maa külmis kivikambreis,
Üheksale ülemaks on sureliku vald,
Üks kuulub Isandale, kelle võim on kangeim
Maal, mil nimeks Mordor, musta Varju all,
Üks Sõrmus juhib neid, Üks leiab üles,
Üks Sõrmus toob nad kokku pimeduse süles
Maal, mil nimeks Mordor, musta Varju all.

Three rings for the elven tribe under the blue sky
Seven for the dwarves in the cold chambers of stone
For the nine is superior the moral hold /or The mortal hold is superior for the nine (hope this sentence makes any sense at all)
One belongs to the Lord, whose power is the strongest (actually rigid is more specific, but i don't know the superlative (most rigid, rigidest :) both are quite veird)
In the land which is called Mordor under the black Shadow
One Ring controls them, One finds them (i'm not sure is it controls or guids, we have the same word for it in Estonian)
One Ring brings them together in the darkness (actually the direct form of it would be in the lap of the darkness)
In the land which is called Mordor under the black Shadow

Well it's great if you understand any of my translation.

[Jonathan]

Why are the Portuguese and Brazilian versions different? It is the same language, right? Shouldn't they be almost exactly the same?
It's like having one British version and another American one.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Nimphredil
Here's the Estonian version Ooh, that's great! I would really like to learn how to speak or write Estonian! I've been trying to find a book to learn from, but there really aren't very many good ones out there.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Why are the Portuguese and Brazilian versions different? It is the same language, right? Shouldn't they be almost exactly the same?
It's like having one British version and another American one.

Yeah, pretty much. :rolleyes: They speak the same language, but they speak it differently.

[Nimphredil]

BTW they didn't just translate the books into Estonian, they changed the names as well. Don't know why they did it, probably to make it sound more Estonian. Most of the place-names which meant anything were changed (Isengard - Irontown, Rivendell - Rockcrack), the names in Elvish and other ME languages remained unchanged. But they also translated some of the person-names. For example Pippin - Red Cheeks (Punapõsk), Merry - Beauty :D :D (Ilo), Sam - well that i can't translate, it's just an Estonian name (Juss), Gollum - Guglunk. The names like Gandalf, Bilbo, Frodo etc remained the same. The most weird part is that in Hobbit they didn't do that - Bilbo Baggins was Bilbo Baggins, but in LOTR Bilbo Baggins suddenly is Bilbo Paunaste. That is rather confusing.
And in the movies they didn't stick completely to their book translation either, they used kind of mixture of English names and translated Estonian names.
How about other lanuages? Sweden? Finnish?

[Jonathan]

Nimphredil, check out my other thread, Different names in different languages (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=211953#post211953). There you can find some Swedish and Finnish names. Be sure to contribute with some Estonian names too!

[Nimphredil]

Here are some of the Estonian names:

Bilbo, Frodo Baggins - Bilbo, Frodo Paunaste
Samwise "Sam" Gamgee - Tobajuss "Juss" Mängla (game means mäng in Estonian)
Meriadoc "Merry" Brandybuck - Ilomac "Ilo" Kangepukk
Pippin Took - Punapõsk Tukk
Treebeard - Puupard
Strider - Rühkija
Legolas Greenleaf - Legolas Roheleht
Hobbiton - Kääbikla
The Shire - Maakond
Wormtongue - Ussikeel
Rivendell - Kaljulõhe

and so on..

[Falagar]

English -- Norwegian:

Bilbo/Frodo Baggins -- Bilbo/Frodo Lommelund (don't ask ;))
Samwise 'Sam' Gamgee -- Samvis 'Sam' Gamgod
Rose Cotton -- Rosi Småtun
Meriadoc 'Merry' Brandybuck-- Meriadoc 'Munti' Brendibukk
Bag End -- Lommekroken
Hobbiton -- Hobbitun
The Shire -- Hobsyssel
Crickhollow -- Krikhølen
Treebeard -- Treskjegg

[Jonathan]

My god... Look at those Norwegian names! And I thought that the Swedish translator had changed the names much.
Baggins is Lommelund! The Shire is called Hobsyssel! Well, now I have something fun to tell all of my Swedish friends. It's always amusing to make fun of the Norwegians :D

[Orion]

It's always amusing to make fun of the Norwegians :D
In Finland we make fun also of the Swedish.. j/k. :D
The Estonian words sound nice, by the way, I can understand a lot of them too. :)

[Falagar]

My god... Look at those Norwegian names! And I thought that the Swedish translator had changed the names much.
Baggins is Lommelund! The Shire is called Hobsyssel! Well, now I have something fun to tell all of my Swedish friends. It's always amusing to make fun of the Norwegians

Hobsyssel:
Hob-shortend form of Hobbit.
syssel-a Norwegian word meaning something like "settlement"...

The Norwegian translator has altered many of the names, but he has always done much research before he altered them...

(bad excuse, I know :rolleyes: )

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Falagar
Hobsyssel:
Hob-shortend form of Hobbit.
syssel-a Norwegian word meaning something like "settlement"...

The Norwegian translator has altered many of the names, but he has always done much research before he altered them...

(bad excuse, I know :rolleyes: ) Yes, the Swedish translator did some research too when he altered the names of the characters. He wanted the names to mean about the same things as they meant in English. Example: Shadowfax = Skuggfaxe, where 'Skugg-' means 'Shadow'

In Swedish, Hobsyssel sounds almost like 'Hobbit business' :D

[Falagar]

Yes, the Swedish translator did some research too when he altered the names of the characters. He wanted the names to mean about the same things as they meant in English. Example: Shadowfax = Skuggfaxe, where 'Skugg-' means 'Shadow'
That's exactly the same name for Shadowfax as in the norwegian translation!
In Swedish, Hobsyssel sounds almost like 'Hobbit business'
http://members.lycos.co.uk/btooic/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Nurvingiel]

I've started reading, quite ambitiously, Lord of the Rings in Swedish. (I saw the one book volume in a bookshop for only 99 SEK and absolutely couldn't resist.)

This thread is to discuss different aspects of the non-English versions of LotR. What languages has it been translated to? What comprehension difficulties does it pose?

I will follow this post with a list of all the proper nouns that were translated in the Swedish version. That is the biggest issue with this copy as many, you will see, do not make sense.

It's quite a hefty post, but this thread is not just for translating proper nouns. Discuss any issues/points of interest/ etc. to do with LotR in other languages.

Tolkien loved languages, and so do we!

[Jonathan]

You got the original translation, didn't you? Because there is a new translation that came last year (the new TTT came this year and they're about to re-release RotK).

The reason they're releasing a new translation of the trilogy was because the translator of the first Swedish LotR books took quite some freedoms, renaming things a bit as he liked. The Swedish translation was, after the Dutch, the first translation of the books to another language so of course there was some errors.Tolkien himself became upset and wrote a 'guide' to how his work should be translated into other languages. The people who have retranslated the trilogy into Swedish have followed Tolkien's guidelines to the last detail

Comprehension difficulties? Well in the first Swedish edition, the reader got the impression that it was actually Merry who killed the Nazgûl king, not Éowyn :). This was fixed in later editions.

Check these threads out -
Quotes in different languages (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=7073)
and
Different names in different languages (http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=7873)

[Nurvingiel]

No wonder it was so cheap! :D I must have the original version. And now, a list of all the liberties the original translator took with proper nouns...


After discovering Bilbo Baggins had been translated into Bilbo Bagger, I browsed through the copy to see what other proper nouns had been mangled. This book also has some very detailed maps at the back (much nicer than my Allen and Unwin copy, which also has one page missing), and I noticed practically all the place names were translated.

Grey_Wolf told me a lot of Swedish fans were upset at the translation (though he read it in English himself), and now I see why. Why would you translate proper nouns, especially when they were not originally in English? Baggins is not an English name, it is Westron. Probably the Westron version of Bilbo’s Hobbit name. How could the translator (Åke Ohlmarks) possibly have known how to translate it properly without Tolkien's input? The answer is clearly that he didn’t.

Who has read a non-English version of Lord of the Rings? Did you notice any weird translations?

I also know that Baggins is Pytlìk in the Czech version. I thought this was so hilarious I drew a cartoon about it. Pytlìk means "small sack" in Czech. :D

List of proper nouns "translated" into Swedish, with comments:

The ones that make sense:

The Shire – Fylke
This one makes sense since Fylke is an old word for county. (Thanks Grey_Wolf. :) )

Middle-earth – Midgård
Given many of Tolkien’s mythological sources, this one also makes sense. I think Midvärld (värld = world) would also have worked, but Midgård is nicer.

Young Tom – Lille-Tom
Jolly – Julle
Nick – Nicke


So very mangled

Baggins – Bagger
Why would you translage Baggins? If Åke Ohlmarks came to Canada I wouldn’t start calling him by some non-sensical English version of his name. I also wouldn’t make one up because there isn’t any English equivelant.

Bag End – Baggershus
This is sensible enough given that Baggins is "Bagger", but now Sharkey's End won't make any sense. Tolkien's languages and humour are both very subtle; they deserve careful and respectful handling.
Also, hus means house. Shouldn’t it have been hole or home instead?

Sackville-Baggins - Säcksta-Baggernas
“Säcksta� actually does mean "Sackville", I think, but “Baggernas�? Why wouldn't it be Bagger, for consistency purposes? Not that Bagger makes sense, obviously there is no equivelant to Baggins in Swedish.

The Brandywine river – Vinfloden
This is one of the worst ones. “Vin� means wine (and it replaces ‘Brandy’ here, apparently) and en flod is a large river. “Floden� works, but shoudn’t it be Floden Brandywine? This brings us to the worst translation I have found thus far…

Brandybuck – Vinbock
The meaning of “vinbock� is “wine he-goat� or “wine buck�. :mad: “Bock� is listed with three meanings in my dictionary, in order: he-goat, buck (animals) and bow (this one seems obscure). Bock can mean buck, but that’s not what buck in Brandybuck means. And the anger of Swedish fans becomes abundandly clear.

Brandy (the drink) in Swedish, is konjak. (Cognac is a type of brandy.) This would make more sense than “vin� at least, even though Brandybuck is obviously not talking about alcohol and ungulates.

Galadhrim – Galadrim
This, even more obviously than Westron names, was never an English word. There’s only the H missing, no big deal right? However, if he really wanted to make this name more phonetic, he should have put “Galathrim�. (I too was guilty of pronouncing it wrong before I read the Appendices, but one would expect the translator to not only read the Apeendeces, but also HoME, the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and The Hobbit.)

This is an indicator of how Elvish will be a bit messed up in the translation. I don’t have the English version here to compare, but there is a distinct lack of accents on the Is in the Elvish songs. Obviously foreign languages in the text should be left alone in a translation, since they are still foreign languages in the new version.


Relatively Harmless:

Arwen – Arven
This isn’t that big of a deal, but hasn’t poor Arwen been tormented enough already? W and V are, for all intents and purposes, the same letter in Swedish. So why change the W to a V, since it makes no real difference?

Gamgee – Gamgi
The Swedish “i� is often pronounced “ee�, so I suppose this makes a bit of sense. However, maybe they should have made it Ggamggi, since stand-alone Gs are usually not hard (Gamgi would probably be pronounced “Yamgee�). Just kidding, don’t do it Åke!

Mirkwood – Mörkmården
This half makes sense – “mörk� means “murky�. But the only entry I could find for “mård� is “marten� (as in the animal). What? Why not Mörkskog? (Skog means forest or wood.) Personally, I think Svartskog would be nice. “Svart� means black or dark.

Sandyman – Sandiman
Dale – Dal
Rosie – Rosa
Cotton - Kattun


Unsure:

Hobbits – Hoberna
I’m not completely sure if this is correct, since the Swedish title of “The Hobbit� is still “The Hobbit�. Maybe that translation was done by someone who handled proper nouns with a little more subtlety.

Hobbiton – Hobsala
I’m pretty sure. If this is the case, and the above translation is also right, shouldn’t it be Hobernastad or Hobernaborg or something? (I am confused.)


Anyone who has already read the Swedish version feel free to contribute! (I’m sure there are more.)

[mithrand1r]

I've started reading, quite ambitiously, Lord of the Rings in Swedish. (I saw the one book volume in a bookshop for only 99 SEK and absolutely couldn't resist.)

This thread is to discuss different aspects of the non-English versions of LotR. What languages has it been translated to? What comprehension difficulties does it pose?

I will follow this post with a list of all the proper nouns that were translated in the Swedish version. That is the biggest issue with this copy as many, you will see, do not make sense.

It's quite a hefty post, but this thread is not just for translating proper nouns. Discuss any issues/points of interest/ etc. to do with LotR in other languages.

Tolkien loved languages, and so do we!


I have seen LOTR translated into Greek. (Actually it was only the FOTR.) It cost about 12€. I did not read it, since it was in a bookstore and I was on vacation. ;) Besides, it may have taken me half of the 4th Age to read just FOTR in Greek. ;)

[Jonathan]

Grey_Wolf told me a lot of Swedish fans were upset at the translation (though he read it in English himself), and now I see why. Why would you translate proper nouns, especially when they were not originally in English? Baggins is not an English name, it is Westron. Probably the Westron version of Bilbo’s Hobbit name. How could the translator (Åke Ohlmarks) possibly have known how to translate it properly without Tolkien's input? The answer is clearly that he didn’t. Actually Tolkien wanted foreign translators to make up new names for the characters. Many of the names are English-sounding and he did not mean for them to sound English if his books were translated into other languages. For instance, Tolkien said that the name Baggins are supposed to make you think of a bag. So in the new version of the Swedish LotR trilogy, the Baggins (that Åke Ohlmarks had named Bagger, which makes you think of a ram rather than a bag :o) are now know as Secker, since säck means bag.

Some translators have done what Tolkien wanted and translated the names into their respective languages - others have not (or have made up really weird names).

[Fat middle]

ADMIN NOTE: SGH asked me to merge this three threads, since them all have the same topic. I've merged them by chronoligical order, but I've kept the name of the last one. Hope it makes sense for you all.
____________________________


I'll try and come tomorrow with a few names from the Spanish translation :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

ADMIN NOTE: SGH asked me to merge this three threads, since them all have the same topic. I've merged them by chronoligical order, but I've kept the name of the last one. Hope it makes sense for you all.
____________________________


I'll try and come tomorrow with a few names from the Spanish translation :)Thank you FM. :) Is this okay for you Nurv?

[Nurvingiel]

That's fine with me! :) (Yay, I got to name the thread! :D)

I'm looking forward to see how Frodo Baggins comes out in Spanish.

Here are some useful Swedish words for your reading purposes... en alv - an elf, and en dvärg - a dwarf. For a language that allegedly has "ett" for 3/4 of the words, there are a lot of "en" words.

[Nurvingiel]

Whoops, missed a post.
Actually Tolkien wanted foreign translators to make up new names for the characters. Many of the names are English-sounding and he did not mean for them to sound English if his books were translated into other languages. For instance, Tolkien said that the name Baggins are supposed to make you think of a bag. So in the new version of the Swedish LotR trilogy, the Baggins (that Åke Ohlmarks had named Bagger, which makes you think of a ram rather than a bag :o) are now know as Secker, since säck means bag.

Some translators have done what Tolkien wanted and translated the names into their respective languages - others have not (or have made up really weird names).
If Tolkien wanted to than I'm okay with it. But Vinbock? I don't think Tolkien intended that. (Am I wrong to think Wine He-goat here? :o)

What's Sackville-Baggins going to be? Säcksta-Secker? That's rather nice actually. Making Samwise into Samuel distorts the meaning too it seems.

And messing about with Elvish, I don't think Tolkien would have liked that. In this case it doesn't matter what the language of the rest of the book is. Okay, I'll stop ranting about that now. (Until I get to the Hall of Fire... ;) )

[mithrand1r]

That's fine with me! :) (Yay, I got to name the thread! :D)

I'm looking forward to see how Frodo Baggins comes out in Spanish.

Here are some useful Swedish words for your reading purposes... en alv - an elf, and en dvärg - a dwarf. For a language that allegedly has "ett" for 3/4 of the words, there are a lot of "en" words.

I think it is Señor Baggins. ;)

hole dweller is translated as "habitante del agujero"

[Fat middle]

List of proper nouns "translated" into Spanish, with or without comments:

The Shire – La Comarca
This one makes sense since Comarca is an old word for shire :p

Middle-earth – La Tierra Media
This one also makes sense because "La tierra de enmedio" would have been much worse :p

Took – Tuck Weird. It just sound in Spanish like Took does in English..., but I don't think the point of translating it since none of those words have any meaning in Spanish. :confused:

Baggins – BolsónIt'd be like a big bag... This one goes without comments :p

Bag End – Bolsón CerradoI don't think that Cerrado is so oftenly used in Spanish to name places as End is used in English. It hasn't the same meaning either (Cerrado = Closed).

Sackville-Baggins - Sacovilla-Bolsón At least Sacovilla could sound like a last name (Bolsón would be a very odd word for a last name).

The Brandywine river – BrandivinoBrandi comes from brandy (the Cognac bottled in the Sherry shire) and vino is wine.

Brandybuck – BrandigamoGamo is buck. It just sound weird.

Brandy (the drink) in Swedish, is konjak. (Cognac is a type of brandy.) This would make more sense than “vin� at least, even though Brandybuck is obviously not talking about alcohol and ungulates.I hadn't read that before. I thought that Brandy was just the Spanish Cognac, that sold very well in England at the times of Tolkien :o

Dunharrow – El Sagrario Sagrario would be close to Sanctuary or Shrine. As a place name I've only seen it used in Western films... No relation with Dunharrow AFAIK.

Gamgee – Gamyi Same explanation as for Took.

Sandyman – ArenasSand=Arena and Arenas is a common last name.


Hobbits – Hobbits
Hobbiton – Hobitton Those are the best by far :p

[Nurvingiel]

Cool FM. :cool:

If you ever met someone with the last name Arenas, would you say "No time for working, but time for wall-propping I see"? :D

What does "La tierra de enmedio" mean?

[Fat middle]

What does "La tierra de enmedio" mean?
It'd be the earth (or ground) that is "in the middle" of two others. Middle Earth could be understood so, doesn't it? but La Tierra Media has a more undefined meaning that I think fits best.

[Olmer]

In Russia they have several translations and all of them sound different.
This is the one which more or less close to original.

Три кольца Высшим Эльфам под кровом светил
Three Rings for the High Elves under the starry sky
Семь- властителям Гномов под кровом земли
Seven for the Dawarf-lords under the cover of Earth
Девять - Смертным, чей жребий - молчанье могил,
Nine for Mortals, whose fate is a silence of tombs
И одно - Повелителю гибельных сил.
And One for the Ruler of deadliest force

В царстве Мордора мрачном, где тени легли.
In the land of gloomy Mordor wrapt in shadows
Отыскать их, собрать их, предать их Eму
Тo find them, to gather them , and to give them to Him
Воедино сковать их и ввергнуть во Тьму
To chain them together and to cast into the Darkness
В царстве Мордора мрачном, где тени легли.
In the land of gloomy Mordor wrapt in shadows.

[LickTheEnvelope]

My god... Look at those Norwegian names! And I thought that the Swedish translator had changed the names much.

Haha!
Norwegians and Swedes squabble like Canadians and Americans.

That's great. :D

This is super interesting I want to have a huge amount of free time to learn some other languages, I slacked on French and Spanish in High School. :(

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

some of these translations are brilliant

i wonder if it has been translated into Gaelic, would be very funny

[Pytt]

Baggins is Lommelund! The Shire is called Hobsyssel! Well, now I have something fun to tell all of my Swedish friends. It's always amusing to make fun of the Norwegians :D

In another translation Baggins is Sekker, which I think is even worse. I like Lommelund, get a good feeling about it.

Strange you say that! We always think it's amusing to make fun of you swedish too :p

[Earniel]

List of proper nouns "translated" into Dutch, with comments:

The Shire – De Gouw
Direct translation, so this one makes sense. It's a bit an archaic word, but most Dutch translations in LoTR have that same air, which actually gives LoTR a special feel.

Middle-earth – Midden-aarde
Again, a direct translation. Although I often mess up and say 'Middel-aarde' which would also be correct but could also be translated back to English as 'Waist-earth'. :D It still can make me grin.

Baggins – Balings
I'm not sure why they did change this one. Balings doesn't sound any Dutcher to me than Baggins would. But hey, it beats the French 'Cul-de-sac'!

Bag End – Balings Laantje
This is no direct translation but fits close nevertheless. The direct translation of 'Balings Laantje' would be Baggins Little Lane. The 'je' at the end is the diminituive form, one of the things I adore about Dutch.

Sackville-Baggins - Buul-Balingsen
Again I'm not sure why this translation was chosen. Buul isn't a name that I'm familiar with.

The Brandywine river – De Brandewijn
A direct translation of Brandywine, both the river and the spirit.

Gamgee – Gewissies
One of the only names that seems very different from the original. But if they were going for giving the name a Dutch feel, they definitely succeeded.

Mirkwood – Demsterwold
This is actually a translation that I prefer more than the original Mirkwood. 'Demster' is IIRC derived from 'Deemster', an archaic word for shadow or dark. 'Wold' is a more germanic term for wood. Demsterwold has this great sinister and creepy feel to it. I loved it from the first time I read it.

Rosie Cotton– Roosje Katoen
Roosje means 'little Rose' so it's certainly fitting. 'Katoen' is the Dutch word for Cotton.

Merry Brandybuck & Pippin Took - Merijn Brandebok & Pepijn Toek
The direct translation of 'Brandebok' in English would be 'Fire-bock'. Definitely one of the more... interesting translations. But it seems to have been the only logical choice for the translation due to its similarity to Brandywine.

'Toek' doesn't have a meaning in Dutch, it's just the same sound of 'Took' written in the way Dutch people would write the sound.

Hobbiton – Hobbitstee
'Stee' is again an archaic word and can still be found in names of Belgian and Dutch places. I'm not sure about the actual meaning, as far as I know it refers to anything from house, city to bed.

Aaaah, old thread, fond memories. :)

[Nurvingiel]

Demsterwold is a bit creepy-sounding, even though it makes me think "dumpster world". :D

Cul-de-sac would be more of a (very wrong) translation for Bag End.

Has anyone read French LotR?

[Earniel]

Demsterwold is a bit creepy-sounding, even though it makes me think "dumpster world". :D
Thanks for ruining that for me. I hate you.

;)

Has anyone read French LotR?
Not me, but the subtitles on the movies were both in Dutch and French, so I picked a few things up.

[Nurvingiel]

Thanks for ruining that for me. I hate you.

;)
:evil:

Not me, but the subtitles on the movies were both in Dutch and French, so I picked a few things up.
At the same time? Wouldn't that make half the screen subtitles? :confused:
Why not stuff German subtitles in there too? j/k :D

Now I'm curious about French LotR. Monsieur Bagginse? Noirbois? ;) And lutin has always seemed like an odd word for elf. It makes me think "The Elves and the Shoemaker" elves. The swedish word (alv) is very close to the word for river (älv), but it seems fitting.

[Earniel]

:evil: :mad:

At the same time? Wouldn't that make half the screen subtitles? :confused:
Actually, it works rather fine...

Of course, now we know why we're having biiiig screens in our cinemas. :p

Why not stuff German subtitles in there too? j/k :D
Actually, I have been wondering about that, with German being our third national language and all. But I suppose they know how to read or understand other languages. :evil:

[littleadanel]

Whee, just searched for "hungarian" out of curiosity (my little beloved mother language :rolleyes: ) and found far more than I expected! :) being sooo happy I decided to write & respond (though this thread, for example, wasn't used for months... :o )

Pretty cool, though I'm not sure about the whole deflector thing... I couldn't figure out what szolganyájat means. :confused:

szolganyáj is a compound, szolga = servant, and nyáj = a bunch of sheep... *grabs dictionary* flock. That's it. :)

[Rían]

fun thread!