The Sundering of the Tolkien Fans

[Black Breathalizer]

In The Puristillion, the story of the sundering of the Tolkien fans is told:

First, there were the Tolkienites, also known as Ringers and Hippies who lived in their private world of Nerdvilla with their beloved Tolkien books. Teased, ridiculed, and harassed as being uncool geeks, these fans escaped into the Undissing Lands to enjoy the Lord of the Rings in blissful peace.

In the first age came the first sundering of the Tolkienites when a pilgrimage was made to the land of Mass-Media. The first of the fans to come to this land were the Animationites – also known as the Cartoonies by the Purists who looked down their noses at them. After establishing a brief foothold on Mass-Media, the colony quickly died out.

In the second age came the Bakshiites. They were a truly silly faction that we’d prefer not to talk about. Really.

Then in the third age came the Jackson Revisionists a huge and powerful group who established a firm and lasting Tolkien foothold on Mass-Media. In fact they were so powerful that they established a kingdom that made even the Purists in Nerdvilla envious of them.

There are many types of Tolkien Purists and Jackson Revisionists.

The Fundamentalist Tolkien Purist – A strict Tolkien book fundamentalist who has been able to maintain a vow to not see the movies.

The Bombadilite Purist – Another type of strict Tolkien book fundamentalist. This group have seen the movies but hate them because they are “not true to the Master.”

The Fair Weather Purist – A Tolkien book fundamentalist who has seen the movies and generally liked them...uh, except for any changes from the book, of course.

The Born-Again Purist – A fan of the movie who saw the movie first – loved it – and then read the books and THEN thought PJ could have done a better job of following the book. Yes, there are some out there.

The Bubble-gum Purist – A Tolkien fan wo posts thotful stuff like “wats up dude?” at dis site an sho off cool sigs that r relly relly long.

The Remedial Purist - A Tolkien book fan who doesn't like the changes the movie made from the book. What distinguishes this type of purist from the others is that they don't know the books very well.

And of course, there is the Grand Poopa of all Tolkienite fans: The Children of the Light: The Jacksonite Revisionist – A very wise, Gandalf-like group of Tolkien fans. They grew up loving the book but were able to appreciate how PJ has added to Tolkien’s mythology with his film version of the story.

:)

I'm sure I missed some groups. Feel free to add your own.

[Coney]

Woohoo! I'm a Remedial Purist!..........Mother will be so proud:rolleyes:

[markedel]

LOL.

I'm amused that you finally admit your cultiness.

:)

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

a born again purist...YAY! does anyone know wut the icon is that i picked? is that supposed to be galadrial when she turns green in FOTR? i cant think of any of the girls in LOTR with out thinking of the male fan thing...*shudder*

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
And of course, there is the Grand Poopa of all Tolkienite fans: The Children of the Light: The Jacksonite Revisionist – A very wise, Gandalf-like group of Tolkien fans. They grew up loving the book but were able to appreciate how PJ has added to Tolkien’s mythology with his film version of the story.


Should I take a bow now or later :D

[LuthienTinuviel]

here's a group to add:

the black breathalists, sadly this group is about to go extinct. thier only form of intelligent debate is making up satirical scenes that only further illustrate thier idiocy. Since they feel that everything that passes out of thier mouths is EXACTLY as Tolkien would have it, this lowly form of life has almost been beaten out of existance by everyone who loves all that is green and growing!



wee this is a fun game!:rolleyes:

[Black Breathalizer]

Dear LuthienTinuviel.

Your "angry woman" ploy to gain my interest is flattering. But I'm taken, babe. Sorry.

Your friend,
BB

:)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Bah: The so-called Children of Light, whom we truly know as the lower Men who fell under the Shadow, have not been around long enough to establish a "firm and lasting" hold in anything. Anyone who thinks that the Jackson films are superior to the Tolkien books proves that he is a lower Man. These "Apostates", as they are known, approve of, and indeed cheer, the raping of numerous characters in the great epic tale Lord of the Rings. Such beings are truly a sad folk, indeed.

Anyway, you forgot a group:

The Separatist Purist - Those of the beings who truly love the Lord of the Rings, but also enjoy the movies made by Jackson; these particular Purists are able to separate the trilogy told by Jackson's spurting blood and twisted characters from the epic Lord of the Rings tale told by the wise founder, Professor J. R. R. Tolkien.

I'm separatist :D.

[Starr Polish]

I, too, am a separatist. Or perhaps I'm a faction not included yet:

Converted Separatist Purist- A Tolkien fan who was influenced to read the books after seeing the first movie, and realized straight away that though the movies are brilliant, they are pale in comparison to the book. Continued to learn or attempt to learn the books very well, and pursued reading other Tolkien works. Very rare, so it seems.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Good for you. :D Separatists (Converted and otherwise) rule! ;)

[BeardofPants]

Hah. There should be a category in there on hating the movie(s) purely because they failed cinematically.

BB, when are you going to realise that not everyone has to agree with you that PJ is simply the bee's knees? :rolleyes:

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hmm, that would be an interesting name.

Hating Purists?

Anti-Cinematic-Failure Purists? Quite interesting, indeed.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The Separatist Purist - Those of the beings who truly love the Lord of the Rings, but also enjoy the movies made by Jackson; these particular Purists are able to separate the trilogy told by Jackson's spurting blood and twisted characters from the epic Lord of the Rings tale told by the wise founder, Professor J. R. R. Tolkien.
This is exactly what I am! Very scary. :) I nearly was one of the children of the light, but I don't think PJ added to the mythology of Tolkien. The only one who could add to the mythology is Tolkien who, alas, has been dead for 30 years. You know, it's ok for people not to like the movie. Take a deep breath and accept it. :)

[Draken]

What about Tolkien/Jackson Agnostics?

There's a lot of evidence for the existence of Tolkien, but as none of us have met him we're not going to get too worked up about it. I personally HAVE read the Hobbit, LOTR and the Silmarillion and enjoyed them, but I have to state I DID view them as works of fiction.

If you generally accept the existence of Tolkien, even in the vaguest sense, then you have to accept the existence of Jackson, with the films being created from the books in a duality that sort of satisfies most belief systems.

Agnostics don't get too bogged down in the fine details but just enjoy the simple pleasures such as:

Stacking up the books to recreate Minas Tirith in a miniature war game

Reading/watching the battle bits over and over

Freeze framing the part with Liv Tyler in profile wearing that purple dress....(or is that just me?)

;)

[Laurelyn]

I'm a separatist. Go me! *cheers*

Although, sometimes the movies really grate on my nerves. I think they're fine cinematically (sorry bop) but sometimes trying to see them separately doesn't work, as the result is a plotline tangled beyond all hope of repair. *sigh*

[Dunadan]

Is there a category for people like me? I love both the books and the films: the films' realisation of ME exceeded my wildest expectations, but my criticisms are to do with getting some of the basics wrong of delivering narrative and character on screen. Maybe Movie Purist?

I don't think there's any sundering between Tolkien fans (unless it's between those who agree with BB and those who don't:rolleyes: ). These films have injected more life into the works and brought yet more people together to celebrate (and debate) the world that Tolkien created.

cheers

d.

PS - does anyone else think there's a contradiction in believing that only JRR Tolkien should be allowed to add to the creation while simultaneously quoting from HoME, UT and other "secondary" sources?

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The Bombadilite Purist – Another type of strict Tolkien book fundamentalist. This group have seen the movies but hate them because they are “not true to the Master.”


That's me!

My mom, however, is one of the noble Children of the Light.

[WallRocker]

Originally posted by Draken
I personally HAVE read the Hobbit, LOTR and the Silmarillion and enjoyed them, but I have to state I DID view them as works of fiction.
;)

Works of FICTION?! ME is REAL:D(or it was - my therory is it was destroyed by the flood) Also, I think I would have to call my self a cross between a Converted Separatist Purist and a Converted Separatist Purist. Why, you ask? I was influneced to read the books because everyone else was watching the movie. I was almost done with the LotR books before I watched the FotR movie:D

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Dunadan
PS - does anyone else think there's a contradiction in believing that only JRR Tolkien should be allowed to add to the creation while simultaneously quoting from HoME, UT and other "secondary" sources? Why do you regard HoME and UT as secondary sources? Though edited and commented on by Christopher Tolkien, the stories in UT are written by JRRT, as is the material in HoME. I would rather say The Silmarillion is a secondary source.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by WallRocker
Works of FICTION?! ME is REAL:D(or it was - my therory is it was destroyed by the flood)
Nope, we are in ME, but the hobbits are in hiding, the dwarves live in mines, the Elves have gone West (except me), and Men have taken over ME. :D ;)

[Falagar]

Why do you regard HoME and UT as secondary sources? Though edited and commented on by Christopher Tolkien, the stories in UT are written by JRRT, as is the material in HoME. I would rather say The Silmarillion is a secondary source.
Depends on which HoME-books :)

BTW, I'm a Seperatist Purist :D

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Bah: The so-called Children of Light, whom we truly know as the lower Men who fell under the Shadow, have not been around long enough to establish a "firm and lasting" hold in anything. Anyone who thinks that the Jackson films are superior to the Tolkien books proves that he is a lower Man. These "Apostates", as they are known, approve of, and indeed cheer, the raping of numerous characters in the great epic tale Lord of the Rings. Such beings are truly a sad folk, indeed.

It said nothing in the descriptionof the Children of the Light about thinking the movies were superior to the book. Anyone thinking that would indeed be pitiful, but the Children of The Light do not.

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Artanis
Why do you regard HoME and UT as secondary sources? Though edited and commented on by Christopher Tolkien, the stories in UT are written by JRRT, as is the material in HoME. I would rather say The Silmarillion is a secondary source.
Mainly because JRRT didn't plan to publish them. His intention, as stated in the preface to my copy of Unfinished Tales, was for the background to LOTR to remain mysterious. So, by publishing them, his son has already taken the creation beyond the intention of the original creator.

I'm not saying this is wrong, just that we should acknowledge that we've already overstepped the bounds the original author placed on his own work. It has therefore been changed by the interpretation of others.

Perhaps "secondary" is the wrong term, but I think it's analogous to printing a painter's rough sketches. Constable, for example, was one of England's most famous romantic painters. However, his field sketches turned out to be far more influential than his finished works: they inspired the Impressionists to change completely how they painted landcapes.

And yes, the Sil would probably be more secondary than UT.

What do you think?

cheers

d.

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Hah. There should be a category in there on hating the movie(s) purely because they failed cinematically.

BB, when are you going to realise that not everyone has to agree with you that PJ is simply the bee's knees? :rolleyes: Didn't Cirdan talk in another thread about PJ's knees? :p

by the by, I'm a Separatist Purist. Thanks for adding that category, Gwaimir.

[Sween]

BB and PJ in a tree doing what the shouldnt be k..i..s..s..i..N..g seriously PJ why dont you just get a room or as im sure your phycatrist of the police call it a shrine to PJ. Seriously i have a gay mate whos looks just like him...want his number?

Im a born again purist semi. I think some things are better in the book (the majority) and i think some things are better in the film but most things are translated well so theres a middle ground of the same as.

[Celebréiel]

hmph, defy catagories! well...I guess im a cross between a bombadillite and BOP's disliking the movies just b/c they werent good! *shrugs*
:rolleyes: Most of my friends are born again purists. Or...there should be a small group for ppl that went to see the movies b/c of the hot elf guy, liked them for the hot elf guy, then the whole born again part. ;) Thats most of my friends.
~Celebréiel

[Gwaimir Windgem]

What is this? You refer to the Apostates as Children of Light? Traitors!!! ;)

And DUH! Of COURSE LotR is real! It happened 7000 years ago! That's, Like, SO obvious! :rolleyes: :D

[durin's bane]

I'm a born-again purist...

Sheesh, BB, say something NICE for once instead of bashing Tolkien fans and praising that plump dolt PJ.

[paulbaggins]

Well I think one can enjoy both the bookks, which are a lot of work to read. And the movies , / One just s toremember that if Jackson had done a full rendition of the books, no toying with the books at all the movies would each run 9 hours in length. So his adaptations are lovely.and I enjoy them

[azalea]

Originally posted by Draken

Freeze framing the part with Liv Tyler in profile wearing that purple dress....(or is that just me?)

;)

I think it's just you...IN YOUR MIND, seeing as how Arwen only appears in "that purple dress" in TTT...which sadly has not come out in video yet!:D

quote:
originally posted by Dunadan:
"I don't think there's any sundering between Tolkien fans (unless it's between those who agree with BB and those who don't:rolleyes: )."

Then it would just be the sundering of the Tolkien FAN. J/K, I couldn't resist.:cool:

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem

The Separatist Purist - Those of the beings who truly love the Lord of the Rings, but also enjoy the movies made by Jackson; these particular Purists are able to separate the trilogy told by Jackson's spurting blood and twisted characters from the epic Lord of the Rings tale told by the wise founder, Professor J. R. R. Tolkien.

I'm separatist :D.

I'm a Separatist Purist as well. Although I found myself being accused sometimes of doing undercover work as a member of the so-called "Children of the Light" and I tell you this: It feels like wearing the One Ring! :eek: Everything's so dark and blurry.

[Wayfarer]

There should be a category in there on hating the movie(s) purely because they failed cinematically.

I believe that category would be Anybody With Good Taste in Cinema

]: )

[BeardofPants]

:D

[Wayfarer]

You agree, then? ;)

[Draken]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by azalea
[B]I think it's just you...IN YOUR MIND, seeing as how Arwen only appears in "that purple dress" in TTT...which sadly has not come out in video yet!:D

Ah but when it comes out I will... no harm in getting a little mental practice in in the meantime! ;)

[Dwarven Sen]

The Separatist Purist - Those of the beings who truly love the Lord of the Rings, but also enjoy the movies made by Jackson; these particular Purists are able to separate the trilogy told by Jackson's spurting blood and twisted characters from the epic Lord of the Rings tale told by the wise founder, Professor J. R. R. Tolkien.

This is me. Wow thank you for finding the name of my true path.

[elendili]

in the wheel of time The Children of the Light are a psychotic gruop of purits who supposedly walk in the light but everyone hates :D :p :p *ducks below hail of masonry*

I think i'm a fair weather purist but also a separaist purist, i used to b indecisive but know im not so sure:D

[Arathorn]

Well, Children of the Light reminds me of Children of the Corn.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

azalea: Actually, a friend of a friend of mine got a copy of TTT from her dad, who got in Quwait (or however you spell it)!!! Maybe Draken has found a similar copy. Have you? Huh, buddy? :D :D :D

[Draken]

Originally posted by Arathorn
Well, Children of the Light reminds me of Children of the Corn.

And "Children of the Corn" reminds me of "Catcher in the Rye"!

[Draken]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
azalea: Actually, a friend of a friend of mine got a copy of TTT from her dad, who got in Quwait (or however you spell it)!!! Maybe Draken has found a similar copy. Have you? Huh, buddy? :D :D :D

Sadly not, let me know where to get one! :D

[Wayfarer]

in the wheel of time The Children of the Light are a psychotic gruop of purits who supposedly walk in the light but everyone hates

"Do I smell a darkfreind!? Inquisitor!"

You know, I think the analogy is very apt.

[LuthienTinuviel]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Dear LuthienTinuviel.

Your "angry woman" ploy to gain my interest is flattering. But I'm taken, babe. Sorry.

Your friend,
BB

:)


please die so that i may piss upon your grave:)

and to all the good people in this thread, ME did exist, well does exist... remember, everyone thought that troy was a myth until they found it....

[Dunadan]

For some reason, that's not how I imagined Beren's better half would behave.

and doom fell on Tinuviel that lay in his arms glistening

Oh, I see; it's all becoming clear now

[azalea]

Originally posted by Draken
Sadly not, let me know where to get one! :D

OR you could become a projectionist in a movie theater and freeze frame it at every showing! I know at least the male audience members wouldn't mind!;)

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem And DUH! Of COURSE LotR is real! It happened 7000 years ago! That's, Like, SO obvious! :rolleyes: :D
I object! I was living in Lorien whenn it happened 3000 years ago!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hmm, didn't see your previous post before, Elf Girl, sorry.

First off, allow me to introduce an in-between view of the Jacksonites: They are Radagastians, for like Radagast, they were sent with a good and true mission, but grew to love something - that is in and of itself good - too much, and fell away from their true quest. Somewhere between Children of Light and Apostates, fair?

Anyway, the Radagastians - that I have heard at least - all extol the virtues of Jackson, and speak of how he perfectly captured Middle-Earth, and how he improved upon it (including Jackson himself). I have yet to hear a Jacksonite say that there was a single thing which he did do perfectly. If he did everything perfectly, and improved upon it, then that basically means that PJ's movies are better than Tolkien's books.

Allow me to introduce yet another category:

The Interpretational Tolkienite - These followers love the epic tale told by J. R. R. Tolkien; they also love the films made by PJ, because they are (at least an interpretation of) Lord of the Rings.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I believe that category would be Anybody With Good Taste in Cinema

]: )

Oh, and also:

I resent that! :mad:

[Earniel]

:eek: Too many categories = one very confused Eärniel :rolleyes:

Even all the schisma's in the catholic church fall into nothing compared to this 'sundering'. New categories are mushrooming. :)

A nice try at defining the different types of tolkien fans, BB. Too bad you had to make it so darn obvious in which group you place yourself.:rolleyes:

*counts the number of times the word 'purist' is used in the first post for fun*

[Elfhelm]

It's a funny post, but like all extended analogies it it too didactic and implies judgement from a source incapable of such.

Children of the Light are the ones who dwell in Valinor, not the ones who sit in darkness. I believe Plato's myth of the cave is a more relevant analogy for those people. Cave dwellers they should be called.

I like the movies, but wish I could have affected the script a little.

[Elvedans]

Can I be a Read-the-Hobbit-then-saw-the-lord-of-the-rings-movie-then-read-all-the-books-and-loves-both-and-thinks-that-Tolkien-is-the-master-of-all-things-middle-earth-but-pj-made-a-very-valiant-effort-and-did-quite-a-good-job-but-cannot-surpass-tolkien-Purist???:D

[Wayfarer]

I resent that!
Oh?

The fact is that while the movies (especially the first one) had a few good parts, they were pretty bad movies overall. They would have been much worse if they were not based on the books.

Let's be honest, I didn't like the two towers for the same reason I didn't like episode two; because it was a stupid movie with no plot development and a bunch of gratuitous crap slanted to appeal to stupid people.

No offense intended, of course. :rolleyes:

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I meant that I enjoy good cinema, but I liked the movies. I certainly don't claim that they were stupendous movies, but I'm a fantasy nut, and love anything fantasy. Though I think that the first (calling them by numbers instead of names helps separate them ;) ) was pretty good, there wasn't really any good plot that I can think of in TTT.

I thought Ep. II was good, except for the parts with Anakin and Amidala. IMO, WAAAAAY overdone. He looked like a predator more than a lovestruck boy!

But anyway, it's not necessary to be so critical; just because you don't like them doesn't mean other people who like them are stupid people who don't have good taste in cinema.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

BTW, I must admit I'm curious: what's your idea of good cinema?

[Elf.Freak]

I am a BORN AGAIN PURIST! yay!:D

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
The fact is...
... a bunch of gratuitous crap slanted to appeal to stupid people.

That's an opinion, not a fact.

Why do you even read and post on the movie board?

No offense, to you either (I don't happen to think I'm a stupid person), but I think you just like to argue.