How many Balrogs did it take to take out Feanor?

[Captain Stern]

In the Silmarilion it doesn't say how many Balrgos there were when they battled Feanor.

I would guess that at least a dozen were there fighting Feanor. Before you dispute this remember that Feanor was increadibly powerful and it wasn't an even fight and to boot Gothmog was fighting him too.

Also how many do you think he took down with him? I would guess about 3.

I wish Tolkien would have fleshed out that part of The Silmarilion.

[Inoldonil]

I'm not sure about that particular battle, but when Tolkien revised the siege on Gondolin he downed the number of Balrogs to 12 altogether. I might be mistaken (failing memory you know), but Feanor was already put out when he engaged in battle with the Balrogs. He probobly ended up battling three or four, that's my guess.

[easterlinge]

Only 12 Balrogs at the siege of Gondolin? I thought there would be more of them to take out the strongest Noldorin stronghold in Beleriand. Mike Martinez mentioned 1000. I don't know the source, but if you ask me, one Balrog is too many... But there were dragons there too. The Noldor could tackle a Balrog (admittedly with heavy casualties) so maybe Morgoth decided to spare them, using dragons instead? After all, Morgoth can't breed Maiar/Balrogs...

How many Balrogs were there in total with Morgoth? And how come he didn't field them in the First Battle (I forget the name), the Second Battle (Battle Under Stars but maybe that's the First Battle?), and Dagor Aglareb? Maybe Morgoth enjoys seeing Orcs get wiped out... he's that kind of guy.

[Grand Admiral Reese]

I'd guess that maybe 5-6 Balrogs(Gothmog among them)were needed to take him out. Maybe more than that. He was really, really strong. When you think about that, it's a lot, because one Balrog is usually enough to take out a lot of Elves.

[Captain Stern]

Often 1 Balrog could defeat an entire mortal army e.g the Balrog in Moria wiped out and drove off an entire civilisation.

Feanor is the maneth who caneth.

[Grand Admiral Reese]

Just goes to show how powerful Feanor was.

[Inoldonil]

Actually I've just heard (as reported in Morgoth's Ring), that when Tolkien revised the Balrogs, he said there were only seven altogether! So two or three would be impossible for most beings in the world to defeat, I imagine only the greatest Maiar and the Valar could accomplish such a feat, maybe that's how many took out Feanor.

[Captain Stern]

Then all 7 must have been fielded to each battle so to overwhelm the foe.

I'd imagine that Feanor could overcome 3 Balrogs but it did seem that all 7 besieged him and he was overwhelmed.

I'll have to re-read The Silmarilion once I get my book back, especialy The Siege of Gondolin where some of you got the impression that there were 12 Balrogs there. I got the impression that Feanor is probably mightier than any of the Valar and the Maiar save for Morgoth at his peak, but 7 Balrogs is too much for any one ( Remember Ungoliant who had swollen with power from the Trees of Valinor and had become more powerful than Morgoth, probably temporarily got mauled by 7 Balrogs )

What Tolkien said in the Letters, Morgoth's Ring or the HOME books doesn't mean that they were the same as what was written in The Silmarilion because we all know he changed his mind over and over again.


Could you tell me what "Morgoth's Ring" is? Is it a self contained book? or is it part of the HOME books or something?

thanks.

[Captain Stern]

I know that the actual siege of Gondolin isn't named that in The Silmarilion and realise the obvious diferences in the 2 accounts in the HOME books and The Silmarilion.

[Inoldonil]

Yes, Morgoth's Ring is in the HOME series. The Istari aren't mentioned in the Silmarillion, but Olorin (Gandalf) is, as one of the Maiar. So I think it's fairly safe to say the Istari were Maiar. The part in the Silmarillion about Olorin being a Maia is drawn (by Christopher Tolkien) from much later writings than The Book of Lost Tales, concerning Gandalf. So you can safely say that in the Silmarillion, the Istari were implied to be Maiar, because Olorin is said to be, and that is drawn from a later writing which specifies Olorin as Gandalf, and Gandalf as an Istar, or Wizard, and the Istari as Maiar. I'm not as familiar with the Silmarillion as I am the Lord of the Rings, but it seems if you want to clarify anything in the Silmarillion you have to do a lot of dreary research. It's a pity J.R.R. Tolkien never got it published.

In the question of power, I don't think any Elf can be greater than any Vala. Feanor in all his wrath of his fiery spirit could not stand against the tsunami that is Ulmo. Just my opinion.

[Lief Erikson]

Here it is, what I've been looking for!

In a previous argument I was having with Michael Martinez, I mentioned as one of my proofs that a person was downed fighting several Balrogs, but I couldn't remember his name and finally I've found him!

Now I'll just have to find Michael, in whatever board he's posting in, bring him over and show him this.

[Xivigg]

i don't think that any elves however powerfull he might be could win over 2 balrog

1 that have been done in 1vs1 combat
but 2 seem impossible to me.

[easterlinge]

Let's turn the question right around and ask: How many Elves does it take to take out a Balrog?

"Taking out" which is not in romantic sense. Feanor dating a Balrog ... Ghaaaa!!

[Xivigg]

I would say that one powerfull enough elve lord can take one balrog

Etchelion and Glorfindel both did so.
but i think they are the only 2 elves that did defete a balrog and one of them at least die doing so.

[Inoldonil]

I believe there were four who killed Balrogs, and all died. I am of the opinion that with Tolkien's revised version of Balrogs (much more powerful than the previous version, and only seven of them) the Elves would not have fared so well. But Tolkien never said how the histories should be altered, or indeed that they should be (that I know of), so I must accept what is written.

But even so I would not say "any Elf", but rather any "High Elf", meaning any of the Calaquendi, the Light-elves. I could ofcourse be completely wrong, but I don't believe any but Noldor fought Balrogs and got the upper hand in any way.