Tol Eressea geopraphy

[DrFledermaus]

Where can I find maps or other geographical descriptions of the ile of Tol Eressea, which is said to be still very simliar to England? I need some details where this similarity can be shown...
And another question, when the hobbits set out with their ships at the end of LotR do they sail to Valinor? Is Valinor the home of the elves or what is it?

THX

[Lief Erikson]

The hobbits did indeed set out for Valinor. To find out what Valinor is, read the first few chapters of the Silmarillion. If you don't have it, I'll give you a brief description.

[Inoldonil]

Mythologically Tol Eressea was very much like Avalon (one of its names was even Avallone), but geographically it did not look like modern day England or Ireland. You will not find such geographic similarities, but England can largely be equated with The Shire.

Valinor is the Land of the Valar, the Powers, members of the high order called the Ainur, the Holy Ones, the first things ever created by Eru The One, who is the Allfather. But technically Frodo did not actually sail to Valinor, but to Tol Eressea, which is an island just branching off from Valinor (Ulmo the Vala, Lord of Waters set it there originally for the Falmari (Folk of the Waves) to dwell on). For some reason that I can't remember after the Fall of Numenore the Elves sailing to Aman ("Blessed") were only alloud to go to Eressea. Maybe it only applied to those Elves returning, thus being the Exiled Noldor. Aman consisted of Eressea and Valinor.

P.S., That Frodo came to Eressea and not to Valinor is evident by what he saw. He saw a green land under a swift sunrise. While Valinor was bordered all about by the Pelori, the tallest mountains ever raised, and the only passage in was by a deep cleft of a name I have recently forgotten (it had "cirya" in it). Frodo surely would have seen these mountains and the great cleft and path through them had he come directly to Valinor. That is, he probably would have seen them anyway from a distance, but the description of what Frodo saw was surely his very first impression.

[easterlinge]

I wonder how the description of Frodo's coming to Tol Eressea came dwon to us? The seafarers don't return to the normal world, so who tells of it?

And what does a Hobbit do all day in Aman? (Or Eressea?)


After 3 Ages of Elves coming in I expect Tol Eressea to be a bit crowded, even more so if they breed.

[Michael Martinez]

Tol Eressea was England in The Book of Lost Tales. People confuse the BOLT traditions with the traditions of The Silmarillion needlessly. Tol Eressea simply became a different thing in the later mythologies.

The Shire should not be equated with England in the least. The Shire was styled after England, but it was not England, nor would it become England.

[Inoldonil]

That's what I meant Michael. I did not mean to say The Shire _is_ England any more than Arnor and Gondor North and South Egypt.

As for how anyone knew what Frodo saw, I've been wondering that myself. There are some things that are a bit-far fetched. In Green Hill Country when Sam, Frodo and Pippin are sleeping, a fox walks by and begins to talk, observing that there must be some tale about these adventurous people. How did anyone know that if they were sleeping, and presumably did not know the speech of beasts? It can only be explained by saying that it was put in as part of a narrative by Bilbo, accurately since it was known that such creatures did indeed talk. That bit about Aman must just be what is assumed to have happened, since Frodo had a dream about it in the House of Tom Bombadill, and wrote about his dream in The Red Book. I guess Sam Gamgee reading of it afterwards before the Book was finished guessed what it meant, and so wrote about what he thought Frodo must have seen after embarking on the Straight Road. He needn't have asked Elves if Eressea was green I suppose, but he might have double-checked to that it fit.

But I would know about the sunrise bit. The sun rises in the East, and rotates around Arda, within the circles of the world. While Valinor is outside the circles of the world (not in 'space' among the stars, but apparently on a whole different plane, although reachable by the Lost Road) and could not have expierienced the Sun. Or so I thought. What do you think?

[easterlinge]

While Valinor was bordered all about by the
Pelori, the tallest mountains ever raised, and the only passage in was by a deep cleft
of a name I have recently forgotten (it had "cirya" in it).

I think it was "Calacirya"? I'm only guessing from the Song of Earendil (which I memorised):

"They clothed him then in elven white
and seven lights before him sent
as through the Calacirian
to Hidden Land forlorn he went"

[Inoldonil]

Yes! Thanks easterlinge! That means 'Pass of Light', makes sense.