Has TTT changed your opinion of FOTR?

[Eglantine Banks]

Has seeing TTT changed the way you feel about FOTR? And has anybody watched FOTR since seeing TTT, and if so, has the experience of watching it changed in any way?

For me, the inadequacies of TTT emphasize what a great movie FOTR is. Now, seeing what an inferior job PJ & Co. did of making TTT, I am truly amazed and grateful at what a good job they did with FOTR. Although FOTR deviates from the book in many ways, I don't find any of the deviations from the book to be big enough or bothersome enough to prevent me from enjoying the movie, and there are only a couple of short scenes I don't like.

But, in my opinion, TTT as a film is far inferior to FOTR. Helm's Deep is a confusing, boring waste of time, the Ents are depicted poorly, Faramir is so wrong I want to cry. There are some great things in the movie (Gandalf/Balrog, Eowyn), but not enough for me to enjoy TTT the way I enjoyed FOTR. I'd say 95% of FOTR is great, but only about 33% of TTT.

I haven't gone back and watched FOTR but I feel a need for a FOTR fix coming on .... there are just so many compelling characters and scenes in FOTR, and in TTT there are so few.

Comments anyone?

-Eglantine (Pippin's Mom)

[Dunadan]

It's probably improved my opinion of FOTR, simply because TTT reveals the director's inability to tell a story. The book presents such a great, filmic plot that it is quite an achievement to fail to convey it while still managing the difficult bit (the detailed creation of imaginary creatures).

I disagree about the Ents in TTT, btw. But I do agree that lots of bits in TTT seemed irrelevant and confusing to me.

Other folk I've spoken to, and a few opinions I've read here, said that TTT was much better on a second viewing. Maybe we should reserve judgment. Also, the extended version of FOTR was much better than the cinema version; maybe there's more to come on the DVD...

cheers

d.

[Lizra]

I need to own the extended edition of TTT and watch it a good 5 or 6 times before I'm sure of what I really think of it. I will say, seeing TTT , and then watching FoTR several times since, I really, really miss the movie character Boromir. Ach! Though I really like Thoeden King, nothing from TTT can touch Sean Bean's Boromir. :)

[WallRocker]

I think FotR stayed fairly accruate to the books, unlike TTT. However, I really liked both movies, looking at both of them as PJ's interpetation of the books. I started thinking that everyone has a diffrent point of view, and PJ's entitled to his own.

[Sinnarndil]

I must say I walked away more disappointed from TTT (Legolas' shield slide made me cringe) than from FOTR but I'd really like to see the extended version before passing a final opinion (for what little that's worth).

The approach that I've been taking is to ask myself if the changes are contrary to the spirit of the books and are they plausible within the subcreation. Generally, I've been happy (except for that bloody shield slide!)

I've been a bit spoiled in watching the extended FOTR heaps before TTT and found it a great improvement on the original FOTR movie, so I guess I'm comparing apples with oranges in not being able to see what PJ wanted to put on the screen for TTT and maybe being a bit unfair to the Bearded One.

I found some consolation from Tom Shippey in this article in which he attempts to explain some of the changes:

http://www.nationalpost.com/search/site/story.asp?id=EF135B7F-9B41-4762-85C0-CBCCC739728F

Random musings from a Entmoot newbie but a Tolkien freak :)

[Dwarven Sen]

I agree to some extent, Legolas doing nifty things i have no massive problem with. *plays him leaping onto horse in head*
But the TTT has been a massive disappointment to a majority of book fans, and tends to make them gloss over the problems of FotR, simply because there are fewer of them.

My Father had the audacity to say the film was an improvement to the book.

[Yazad]

I agree with Dunadan's assessment that TTT shows Jackson's inability to tell a story. I'd go farther and I'd say it shows his woeful inadequacy as a director.

On topic, though, I think I do have a better appreciation for FotR than for TTT. On my first viewing of FotR, I was very troubled, but thought it was "pretty good". On subsequent viewings my opinion was elevated to "very good". After watching it maybe 20 times in the last year, I'm back down to "pretty good", though maybe the extended version is "very good", or at least "good".

TTT got an original rating of between "bad" and "sucked wind" from me. Further viewings (2) decreased my opinion of it further. I think (if I could forgive the screenwriters (which I cannot)) my biggest problem would be the obvious problems that Jackson has with telling the story. The juggling between the 3 storylines was done in a truly amateur fashion IMO, and, like FotR, it had a terribly choppy feel to it, like we were watching a rough cut, not a final release. I think he's a fine chap for coming up with grandiose ideas and maybe even orchestrating the visuals, but that's more of a job for a second assistant director, not the leader of the film.

I think that the extended version of TTT could help smooth out some of the choppyness, and I hope it does, but all in all, I would say, yes, TTT has increased my opinion of FotR.

Yazad

[Dúnedain]

I will be the first person to disagree here. Although I am a HUGE fan of the books, we have to also remember there are a ton of people brought into the world that we all know and love from these movies. Yes TTT strays from what we know, but personally I thought the movie was great. I thought it's pace was better than FotR, it moved quicker as in it stayed up beat almost the entire movie.

You can't compare movies and books, no matter what it is, especially Tolkien. Now, yes, I am not pleased with the changes and the subtractions from TTT that the crew decided to make, however for the story they have given us so far it fits seamlessly into what they have portrayed thus far. If they are able to create the world I have loved for so many years and continue to do so in a fashion that gives great credit to the original works then more power to them. I know that the movies have to have certains aspects to them in order for them to be successful and they have done that, I mean look at the box office totals, it is obscene how much this movie is making.

At the same time, I completely understand all of your points and I do think they are warranted, however in the bigger scope of things, we are still getting the same story we love, but it is brought to life for us before our very eyes. I find the flaws a lot less painful than those that you have all stated above, and consider the job extremely well done to this point. I knew going into TTT that it was going to be the 1 movie to deviate from the books the most, but it still doesn't bother me that much, because although we aren't given the exact dialogue's or the exact scenes as written within the book, the interpretation that we are presented with does a damn good job in my opinion...

[akutach]

I've only seen TTT once, but based on first impressions I had some serious disapointments (most mentioned above) whereas FotR was splendid.

The biggest difference that I see in evaluating the two is that TTT is incredibly more difficult to carry as 3 storylines plus additional scenes to build the story (Scenes that include the Rohirrim before any of the Fellowship get there). FotR is a straightline storey, and if you think PJ can't tell a story you haven't seen his other works. It's easy to criticize what is missing because you know, but ask other people who don't know the story well or at all and see if they know what is going on.

My bet is that the extended DVD is going to fill in the story to a much greater extent than the FotR extended did. The time limits on a >3 storyline film really pinch in on the fluidity - especially in an action film where all 3 main stories have so many events that are simply physical action and not short events that take only a few seconds at a time.

I think the Scouring is the most disappointing thing to have axed in the RotK, but the choppiness would be painful if they tried to squeeze it all into 3 hours: Pellenor Fields, Gates of Mordor, Shelob's lair, Coronation/wedding, return trip and parting at the Havens (if that is there).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

In my opinion, many of the changes made in TTT were not necessary at all; what good does it do to take away GtW's hat and cut his beard? Many of the others were very poor portrayals of Tolkien's world. All in all, it was a poor adaptation, but an excellent movie.

[Huan]

What scares me most is that for all my snarky comments, LOTR, even The Two Towers, has changed my opinion not of Fellowship, but of the new Star Wars prequels. For Christmas I got a new tv bigger than I've ever had, and I thought to inaugurate it with widescreen Attack of the Clones, which I hadn't seen on a large tv yet (I was having to borrow my mom's 12 inch when the DVD came out), but when I put the DVD in, all I could think watching it was that I could so be watching Lord of the Rings right now. This, this just won't do.

[BandobrasBaggins]

I am of the opinion that TTT is as good or possibly better than FOTR (and I have read the books). You make a movie of Two Towers that is better and maybe I'll agree with you but I think PJ has done a fine job considering the was the TTT book is set up. It's in two completely seperate parts and contains 3 seperate story lines. There is no other way to design this movie and make it cinematic. You have to go back and forth. As for plot changes like Faramir and the elves coming to Helm's Deep, it's just a matter of opinion. They don't bother me. In the end Faramir still lets them go (and the extended ed. will show him helping Frodo, Sam, and Gollum escape Osgiliath through the sewers) and the elves at the battle doesn't violate the spirit of Tolkien's books. The elves didn't come to Helm's deep in the books, but it could have happened. It makes sense. Gondor coming to help would have been a graver error. So in other words I love both movies and I disagree with most of you. But that is only my opinion and you are entitled to yours.:)

[Yazad]

Originally posted by BandobrasBaggins
...and the extended ed. will show him helping Frodo, Sam, and Gollum escape Osgiliath through the sewers

Oh, oh oh! How do you know that??? Extended edition spoilers PLEASE!!! I'm really pinning my hopes of this movie on that extended edition. :)

As to the (another poster) "You make a version of TTT and then you can judge" type of deal.

Damn, I wish I could! Unfortunately $300M is a bit beyond my budget.

And I haven't seen any other PJ films. Would "Heavenly Creatures" be the best place to start?

Lastly, juggling 3 storylines is difficult, but certainly not impossible. Note how many there were in Magnolia, IMO expertely juggled in one of the greatest films of all time.

Yazad

You can tell how bored at work I am by my number of posts/day.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Yazad
Oh, oh oh! How do you know that??? Extended edition spoilers PLEASE!!! I'm really pinning my hopes of this movie on that extended edition. :)


Go here, this lists the scenes that were deleted and will either appear in the TTT Extended Edition DVD or in RotK...

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6784

[dawningoftime]

I was reading somewhere that the theatrical release of RoTK is going to be 3 1/2 hours long. I'll try to find the link to it. As for the TTT I don't think it was that bad, although I have to admit this is my least favorite book of the three. I loved the ents.

[Firekitten2006]

I absolutely loved FOTR. Both the movie and book. The graphics were done wonderfully, and it followed the book remarkably well. I have only seen TTT once, but plan on seeing it again and again and again after my birthday (in feb.) I thought that TTT was a great movie . You cant really compare it to the books. It isnt very much like the books at all. But the biggest thing in TTT that I hated were thos scenes with the Nazgul and its just the head or whatever and the sky as the backdrop. *shudders* looks like a bad 80's music video IMHO. Hopefully they will clean up the graphics or something before it comes out on DVD. But I'll buy it anyway. ;) Cant see the reason to have FOTR and not TTT.

[legolasluvr2931]

its weird... i saw TTT twice then i went and saw FOTR extended three times and FotR seems well... not as amazing now. it's still awesome dont get me wrong, but it has changed my opinions about some of the characters a wee bit.

[Pippin Skywalker]

Has TTT changed my opinion of FOTR? Indeed!
I came to realize that FOTR was better acted,edited,musically scored, and generally put together!
Two Towers was amazing in some respects: visuals (helms deep uruk hai), Eowyn, Wormtongue, and GOLLUM! However I think this film was a lot less than I expected it to be- the story was lost in the mesh of great imagery, Peter Jackson took TOO many liberties with Tolkien's story, the script needed more work and Saruman! Saruman is supposed to be the MAIN badguy of the movie/book and he has the most UNDERSTATED role! I don't think TTT was true to Tolkien the way it should have been. And alas! The score! Shore was on fire in FOTR but his music for the second movie stands out much less.

Here was what I think should have happened for Two Towers-

(a) Don't add to much material that is not ACTUALLY from the book...

(b) Have Shelob in TTT

(c) Have more Saruman..a LOT more and show Gandalf removing him from power in orthanc

(d) have a cliffhanger of Frodo seeming to be dead...it worked well on me when I read the books

(e) better dialogue

(f) BETTER character development

ROTK:

Stay true to the story
Shore's score return to it's former greatness
GOOD scripting
EVEN editing
Focus on CHARACTERS rather than effects.