Fingon's Nirnaeth Arnoediad

[Maedhros]

From the Published Silmarillion: Nirnaeth Arnoediad
In those days Maedhros son of Fëanor lifted up his heart, perceiving that Morgoth was not unassailable; for the deeds of Beren and Lúthien were sung in many songs throughout Beleriand. Yet Morgoth would destroy them all, one by one, if they could not again unite, and make new league and common council; and he began those counsels for the raising of the fortunes of the Eldar that are called the Union of Maedhros.
Fingon, being the High King of the Noldor, to me it seems as the logical person to begin drawing this Union of Elves against Morgoth. He could have probably have gathered more people against Melkor. I wonder why he didn't involved himself more and sent messangers to Orodreth to assail Morgoth.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
From the Published Silmarillion: Nirnaeth Arnoediad

Fingon, being the High King of the Noldor, to me it seems as the logical person to begin drawing this Union of Elves against Morgoth. He could have probably have gathered more people against Melkor. I wonder why he didn't involved himself more and sent messangers to Orodreth to assail Morgoth. I think at that time Nargothrond had changed its defensive policy. After Finrod's death and the exile of the sons of Feanor from that realm, Orodreth developed a policy of stealth and secrecy. Not until the coming of Turin did that change, although he did send a small company to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad with Gwindor as their leader.

[Maedhros]

This is what i don't understand. If I'm Orodreth, then why would you go out and try to fight Morgoth, with only the forces of Nargothrond, knowing that the combined armies of the Eldar (Fingon, Maedhros, etc) failed in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad? It doesn't make any sense.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
This is what i don't understand. If I'm Orodreth, then why would you go out and try to fight Morgoth, with only the forces of Nargothrond, knowing that the combined armies of the Eldar (Fingon, Maedhros, etc) failed in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad? It doesn't make any sense. So You're actually asking about the Battle of Tumhalad? I have always found Orodreth to be somewhat weak of will, and IMO that probably would not have happened but for Turin who was in high favor with the king and managed it seems to call the shots.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Fingon, being the High King of the Noldor, to me it seems as the logical person to begin drawing this Union of Elves against Morgoth. He could have probably have gathered more people against Melkor. I wonder why he didn't involved himself more and sent messangers to Orodreth to assail Morgoth. But Maedhros had a personal grudge against Morgoth because of his imprisonment and torture and so was very aggressive. For this reason, too, he had located himself in a position where Morgoth would likely attack (I forget the exact quote and, unfortunately, the book isn't present right now).

Perhaps Fingon didn't send messengers to Orodreth because of the trouble the two sons of Feanor had caused in Nargothrond, and the great fear one of them, Curufin, I think, had instilled into the Elves there who, as Sister Golden Hair points out, changed their tactics and never came out to war openly again until Turin's time (when it proved disastrous).

[Finmandos12]

I always found Orodreth to be weak as well. Taking the advice of that fool Turin.... I'll never understand that either.

[Sister Golden Hair]

It's interesting that Finrod knew long before his death that his kingdom was facing this doom after his death. Very insightful fellow.

[Maedhros]

But Maedhros had a personal grudge against Morgoth because of his imprisonment and torture and so was very aggressive. For this reason, too, he had located himself in a position where Morgoth would likely attack (I forget the exact quote and, unfortunately, the book isn't present right now).
Well, the great Maedhros wouldn't hide himself. If there was a battle, he would be in the very center of it.
Perhaps Fingon didn't send messengers to Orodreth because of the trouble the two sons of Feanor had caused in Nargothrond, and the great fear one of them, Curufin, I think, had instilled into the Elves there who, as Sister Golden Hair points out, changed their tactics and never came out to war openly again until Turin's time (when it proved disastrous).
But Fingon as the High King of the Ñoldor, had the utmost responsability against the fight against Morgoth, didn't he?
So You're actually asking about the Battle of Tumhalad? I have always found Orodreth to be somewhat weak of will, and IMO that probably would not have happened but for Turin who was in high favor with the king and managed it seems to call the shots.
No, I'm asking about common sense. If you are against going to open war against Morgoth alongside with the rest of the Ñoldor, yet you go with your own realm against him? (Granted it was not a direct open war)
It's interesting that Finrod knew long before his death that his kingdom was facing this doom after his death. Very insightful fellow.
Wasn't it just a matter of time that the Elf Kingdoms were destined to perish?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros Well, the great Maedhros wouldn't hide himself. If there was a battle, he would be in the very center of it.Agreed, and after the deeds of Beren and Luthien, Maedhros saw that Morgoth was not unassailable. The Union of Maedhros came from counsels that I'm sure Fingon was an active participant and was more then willing to aid his best friend in his effort to unite the Eldar and attempt to assail Morgoth.

But Fingon as the High King of the Ñoldor, had the utmost responsability against the fight against Morgoth, didn't he? Well, perhaps, but I don't think that Fingon was any less active in forming this alliance or in the assault than Meadhros. I think it was Maedhros' idea, and it became a combined effort among the Noldor.

No, I'm asking about common sense. If you are against going to open war against Morgoth alongside with the rest of the Ñoldor, yet you go with your own realm against him?From the Silmarillion. Hoghton Mifflin edition. 1977. Chapter 20Yet the oath of Feanor and the evil deeds that it had wrought did injury to the design of Maedhros, and he had less aid then should have been. Orodreth would not march forth at the word of any son of Feanor, because of the deeds of Celegorm and Curufin; and the Elves of Nargothrond trusted still to defend their hidden stronghold by secrecy and stealth. Thence came only a small company, following Gwindor son of Guilin, a very valiant prince, and against the will of Orodreth he went to the northern war, because he grieved for the loss of Gelmir his brother in the Dagor Bragollach. They took the badge of the House of Fingolfin, and marched beneath the banners of Fingon; and they came never back, save one.

Wasn't it just a matter of time that the Elf Kingdoms were destined to perish? Yes, but Finrod didn't know that until he had the forsight when speaking to Galadriel, and then he knew that Nargothrond would fall.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

But Fingon as the High King of the Ñoldor, had the utmost responsability against the fight against Morgoth, didn't he?What Sister Golden Hair said :) . I'd only add that, besides their being best friends, it could be that there was a more egalitarian and free-wheeling spirit among the leaders of the Noldor than we would consider usual in these legalistic and system-based days, due either to the general Elvish way or specific to this group because the sons of Feanor could, to put it mildly, be a tad touchy at times. Maedhros was pretty cool, but Fingon knew that he also owed allegiance to all of his brothers.

Then again, perhaps it was the curse at work again, as they were doomed to failure. Perhaps had it been the Union of Fingon, while I don't think they could have ever defeated a Vala, they might have succeeded far enough to forever limit Morgoth's expansion. My Silmarillion isn't handy to look for any text in support of this, though.

However that was, this underlying sense of responsibility perhaps was the motivation that led Fingon later to challenge Morgoth to single combat, futile though he knew it would be.

[Falagar]

However that was, this underlying sense of responsibility perhaps was the motivation that led Fingon later to challenge Morgoth to single combat, futile though he knew it would be.
Wasn't that Fingolfin?

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Oh, you're right, it was (blush). Time for remedial Silmarillion 101. Thanks!

[Halbarad of the North]

It just seems that the only leader who foresaw that Morgoth would destroy them one by one if they did not unite and formed the union

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Maedhros
From the Published Silmarillion: Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Fingon, being the High King of the Noldor, to me it seems as the logical person to begin drawing this Union of Elves against Morgoth. He could have probably have gathered more people against Melkor. I wonder why he didn't involved himself more and sent messangers to Orodreth to assail Morgoth.

The elves were split in two with limited communication. Maedhros had access to some numbers of allies in the Dwarves wand the Men of Nor and Ulfang, as well as dwelling in greener lands than Fingon in Hithlum. It is likely that Maedhros could bring larger numbers to bear, but of lower quality than Fingon.

[Rían]

Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
Oh, you're right, it was (blush). Time for remedial Silmarillion 101. Thanks!

LOL! Now there's one remedial class I wouldn't mind taking!