Next Big Question...

[gdl96]

Now that The Two Towers is all done with, it's time to start thinking about Return of the King. The big question for TTT for a while was how it would start off. Well, how do you think ROTK will start?

My theory is the flashback trend will continue in a way. The camera will travel down the river Anduin for a few moments until we come accross two fishing hobbits, Smeagol and Deagol. This scene was rumored to be in TTT, but because it wasn't, maybe it will be in ROTK (there are pictures of the scene, and Andy Serkis (Gollum) has said in an interview that he will be seen without the CG makeup as Smeagol in a flashback in the third movie). Then we will see the two hobbits fight over the ring, etc. And then I think the movie would go to the present time with Gollum leading Frodo and Sam to Cirith Ungol.

[azalea]

Ohhhhh, that would be so cool!! Maybe they'll have the flashback at the moment when he almost becomes "good" again when the hobbits are asleep and he's looking at Frodo, and then Sam wakes up and yells at him and *poof* it's Shelob time!

But they will probably start the very beginning w/ a scene that was played out in TTT, as was done at the beginning of TTT. I can't think of which one it will be, though. Or maybe not, since that was really done to show another part of the story that we hadn't seen.

[eowyngirl14]

I think that it would be neat if they showed a scene of Frodo being attacked by Shelob, to get the aduance's attention! And then go back and show how Gollum betrayed the hobbits... They probobly won't though, as that would confuse many many people.:)

[Cirdan]

I would think that they would need to pick up near where they left off but would want to get that "running start" feeling of TTT. I would say that picking up at Isengard with a phased in reprise of the ents destruction to the arrival of the Helm's Deep crew. They still need to pick up M&P and all the next action is new material. It gives them the continuity of plot and action. They would follow with some action scene at Osgiliath and then Frodo et al hiding from the witchking on the stairs to Cirith Ungol., IMO

[Elfhelm]

I want Flotsam and Jetsam! :)

[claudia silver]

Originally posted by Elfhelm I want Flotsam and Jetsam! Me too! But I think, if it's in at all, it will be a quick version, sort of scooping up the hobbits on the way to Isengard. In the book it is a lull between the big action scenes of Helm's Deep and the encounter with Saruman. I dont think PJ will start with a 'lull' somehow.

Maybe the missing Smeagol and Deagol scene will appear in the extended version of the TT, at the part when Gollum remembers his name.

[gdl96]

Hmm, maybe it will start off showing the much talked about fate of Saruman. Spiked wheel, anyone?

[WallRocker]

Personally, I think PJ will start off with Frodo, Sam and Gollum. The they will walk to Shelob's lair and... the scene will cut to Isengard with Gandalf just arriving. Okay, so this probably won't happen(I'm doubting PJ will leave musch of the scene with Gandalf and Sarumon in it), but I think that'd be pretty cool. Also, who thinks even more wil be cut out from the RotK book? Just think of how much was cut from TTT that they have to put in RotK! I think most people who have read thebooks will be dissapointed with RotK, even more so then TTT.

[Millane]

i think it will start at isengard again because that didnt finish in helms deep and thats the only big thing happening at the moment coz frodo and sam have been let go and are just walking along and helms deep has finished and they are all just riding along but i dont know how that will start... i think it could startwith sam and frodo panning up the stairs at cirith ungol that would work pretty well... undoubtedly the way they opened TT was incredibly awesome and the best opening to a movie that ive ever seen

[lacemkr90]

The story is in a lull at the end of TTT. It ends just before everyone gathers strength for the battle for Gondor. They could start with the host issuing from Minas Morgul. They way they can go straight to Frodo & company and the stairs. But that doesn't leave much time for the wizards to meet in Isengard. PJ has included so much with Saurman and Gandalf that I would be surprised if he cut that part.

[gdl96]

PJ said that TTT deviates from the books the most out of the three movies, so I wouldn't expect it to stray too much from the book, Wallrocker

[WallRocker]

I hadn't heard that. Well, hopefully PJ' going to keep RotK close to the book. Hey, we heard that Scouring of the Shire was going to be left out of RotK, but since Sarumon didn't die in TTT, maybe it will still be in. Anyone know?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Since PJ and crew think TTT was Tolkien's big screw-up, naturally that one would be the least accurate to the book.

[Laurelyn]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Since PJ and crew think TTT was Tolkien's big screw-up, naturally that one would be the least accurate to the book.
*coughs*
"Screw-up" eh? Gah. Methinks I disagree.

[markedel]

His writers see it as a "tangent."

[Elfhelm]

I think the punishment of Saruman is dramatically necessary, and they have set up the motive of Grima, as discussed in another thread, to do what the book says he will do. So I don't think they're going to build all the way toward that without the retribution, and that can't happen until Gandalf does you know what. So I still hope for Flotsam and Jetsam. and some fine weed out of the South Farthing. Plus, you know, they showed the first fight scene between Gandalf and Saruman... that has to be balanced out with ... well there are a alot of potential spoilers if I keep brainstorming outloud here.

[Cirdan]

I doubt the context of flotsam and jetsam would survive. It was just a mechanism to recount the trashing of Isengard. I can't imagine PJ starting out with characters eating, smoking, and telling long stories. The recounting of the end of either helm's deep or the seige of isengard are likely since they were left without conclusion (what next, etc.) Frodo will show up after the opening at the crossroads and then have the encouter with the witchking. That will privide enough action to get through to the seige of gondor. I wouldn't be surprised to see a battle thrown in at osgiliath with faramir, either.

Will we see ghan-buri-ghan? the paths of the dead? Will sam and frodo have to pass as orcs? Will sam carry frodo up orodruin?

We know aragorn is king since we've seen his tomb in rath dinen.

[gdl96]

What about when one of the hobbits (merry or pippen? I forgot) retrieve's Saruman's palantir? You think they'll leave that in?

[Elf Girl]

They'd better!!

[Celebréiel]

Im hoping that they get RoTk right, they messed up quite a bit on TT, changing to many characters personalitys and such but I think RoTK might be better. Im thinking it will start with either Frodo and Sam or Merry and Pippin. Im really wondering how their gonna have the hobbits meet up w/ Gandalf and crew. He might keep it a little how it was in the book (instead of over-dramtizing it like PJ seems to do alot) but the movies both have had a typical movie set up, the begining, the build up, a major climax and a wind down...so who knows, the begining could be peaceful...maybe......I really have no clue, im a moron.
~Celebréiel

[azalea]

Originally posted by Cirdan


Will we see ghan-buri-ghan? the paths of the dead? Will sam and frodo have to pass as orcs? Will sam carry frodo up orodruin?


OH, I hope, I hope!!:)

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by azalea
OH, I hope, I hope!!:)

me too!!! me too!!! me too!!!:)

[BeardofPants]

Ditto. :D

[Cirdan]

yeah. yeah! me too! hehe hehe

Is it too late to add the scouring of the shire?

and the elven ships?

and the ghost army?

and the song in my sig?

and Sauron embodied(but not the gold lamae) looking out barad-dur and seeing the ring just before it's gone and looking panic-stricken and...

[Millane]

stuff Ghan buri Ghan i want to see Elladan and Elrohir and if luck prevails maybe just maybe they might bring Anduril...

[cassiopeia]

My theory is that PJ likes to have a big action/fight scene very early on in the movies - like the last alliance in the FOTR and Gandalf vs. the Balrog in TTT. So I think there will be a action scene early on in the ROTK. Maybe Frodo's encounter with Shelob or the witchking. I can swallow all the changes so far, but if PJ messes up Sam rescuing Frodo from Cirith Ungol and Frodo's departure from the grey havens, I am going to get very angry.

[Celebréiel]

I totally agree cassiopeia, I loved Sam going in to rescue Frodo! All the orcs thinking its a mighty elven warrior and sam getting a kick out of that. :o Ive somewhat lost faith in PJ for the two towers, but......well, ill be optimistic and hope he can do RoTK justice.
~Celebréiel

[Menelvagor]

Does anyone else foresee a problem with Saruman? From where they left off in TTT they still have to kill (break his staff, but it's much more likely since they cut the Scouring that they'll just kill him) Saruman at the begining of RotK. To me that seems a bit abrupt, it would have fit much better at the end of TTT (with plenty of drama so that it wouldn't seem anticlimatic :rolleyes: ) and then they could've just concluded Saruman's story nicely. Now it seems as though they will have to push his punishment to later in the movie (maybe it's just my perception, but he's been such a major villan so far, I can't see them just killing him offhand in the first 10 minutes) will Gandalf stay to deal with him while the others leave? Will he be left to his own devices until Grima convieniently kills him? Am I over analyzing this way too much?

[eowyngirl14]

Nope, your not... I agree completly!:)

[Menelvagor]

:)

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how PJ does it.

[eowyngirl14]

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:D I'm okay! I swear!

[Nurvingiel]

Saruman's death is going to get screwed up without the Scouring no matter what. I just hope PJ's writers can do a half-decent job of killing off such a noble villain.

I guess they won't go off on any 'tangeants'. TTT happens to be my favourite Tolkien book.

[Renille]

I was wondering if we've actually already seen the wild men...remember in the TTT movie, when Saruman was talking to Sauron, and they showed a clip of him sending out all those men (not orcs) to destroy the Rohirrim? Later, someone, Eowyn, I think, called them wild men. But were they WILD MEN or just wild men? I don't know. But I hope they're at least in ROTK. That would be wonderful!

But I'm positive Saruman's death is going to be twisted...at least, if the spiked wheel thing is true. :( And I still hate spiders. Not looking forward to Shelob very much at all. :p

[legolasluvr2931]

Grrr!
I wish that they had put the spider in the second one. Thatis where they will probably start. pooo! I was hoping for it. I DONT like spiders but i wanted to see how the did it. i havent found any spoilers yet that have pictures of the spider that they did for it.

[Nurvingiel]

I believe those people were from Dunland. The movie doesn't go into a lot of detail, but if they were Dunlanders, it would coincide fairly happily with the book.

[Dúnedain]

The thing I am worried about is with them ending so soon in TTT and cutting off so much, it seems as though RotK is going to be so wickedly compressed. I just don't see how they are going to put it all into 3 hours.

The 2 things I want to see the most are the Paths of the Dead and the arrival of the ships, I really want to see Anduril and Imrahil the Prince of Dol Amroth, as well as Elladan & Elrohir.

ok ok I know that was more than 2 things but they are really bunched together anyway :p

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by legolasluvr2931
Grrr!
I wish that they had put the spider in the second one. Thatis where they will probably start. pooo! I was hoping for it. I DONT like spiders but i wanted to see how the did it. i havent found any spoilers yet that have pictures of the spider that they did for it.

:mad: I wanted Shelob too! My friend thinks she saw a picture of Shelob on theonering.net, but I haven't seen it yet, so she may just be saying that to watch me get all exited, and then really dissapionted, and the WRING HER SORRY LITTLE NECK! Sorry, I'm okay now...:)

[gdl96]

Originally posted by Dúnadain
The thing I am worried about is with them ending so soon in TTT and cutting off so much, it seems as though RotK is going to be so wickedly compressed. I just don't see how they are going to put it all into 3 hours.


Keep in mind Return of the King is by far the shortest of the three books. In the end, I think it will all even out without rushing too much.

[Cirdan]

Will heads fly from the orc catapults? I think PJ would insist on it.:)

[Foul_Dwimmerlaik]

If you search under "Return of the King" on IMDB you'll find an actor listed for Ghan-buri-ghan, so he's in it and has lines. There isn't anybody listed for Imrahil, so methinks he's gone the way of Bombadil, Glorfindel and Erkenbrand. Perhaps Faramir won't get himself nearly killed and he'll take on Imrahil's role as adjunct leader of Minas Tirith, which is what he would have been had he not gotten wounded so badly.

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Will heads fly from the orc catapults? I think PJ would insist on it.:)

I hope so! That would be sooooo coooool!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Foul_Dwimmerlaik
If you search under "Return of the King" on IMDB you'll find an actor listed for Ghan-buri-ghan, so he's in it and has lines. There isn't anybody listed for Imrahil, so methinks he's gone the way of Bombadil, Glorfindel and Erkenbrand. Perhaps Faramir won't get himself nearly killed and he'll take on Imrahil's role as adjunct leader of Minas Tirith, which is what he would have been had he not gotten wounded so badly.


NOOOOOO!! That sucks! I want Imrahil damnit!! :mad:

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Will heads fly from the orc catapults? I think PJ would insist on it.:)

I highly doubt it, because I read an interview with PJ before TTT came out and he said they edited some scenes where orc heads were being chopped off so they could keep the PG-13 rating, however he said they will be in the DVD which would be rated R. So, if that is the case, don't expect to see them in the feature film until the DVD comes out for RotK :(

[Evenstar1400]

Yes it is true (eowyngirl14) that i did see a pic of what seemed to be shelob on theonering.net. ive got it on my moms computer, but im not sure if it really is shelob from the movie or if it's just a picture drawn by some artist or fan. so if someone would tell me how to put the little pics below my username i could show everyone.

(ahem..........eowyngirl14................. you wouldnt get to my sorry little neck because i wouldve gotten to u first!!)

[Evenstar1400]

i have partial proof that there is a possibility that the scouring of the shire may be included in Rotk. in the making of the movie trilogy book, there is a pic of a miniature shabby looking mill (which may have been used to some extent in the Fotr in the mirror of Galadriel) its a possibility that the mill will be seen in Rotk and that the scouring of the shire will be included!

[Evenstar1400]

those of you who have seen the extended dvd version of Fotr............................ did sam recieve his gift from Galadriel??? if so, that can be another reason for the scouring of the shire being included in Rotk

[Dúnedain]

I think we have an actualy answer as to when the 3rd film starts, check this out:

This is from Tolkien Online;

Third Film Opens With Narsil Being Reforged
FILMS: The third film starts with the reforging of Narsil in the foundry of Rivendell. Arwen then brings it to Aragorn's encampment, before he heads off for Gondor.
BOOKS: Narsil is reforged into Aragorn's sword Anduril before the Fellowship sets out from Rivendell in the first book. The third books opens with Gandalf and Pippin riding to Minas Tirith.
PRO: Anduril is a good visual device representing Aragorn's decision to reclaim the throne of Gondor, and thus its reforging is better suited to the third film.
CON: This change does not represent Tolkien's work.
SUPPORTED BY:

Here are links to prove it:

Ringbearer Footage Preview 5/4/01 (http://www.tolkienonline.com/docs/2599.html) (first report)

AICN Peter Jackson interview 2/19/02 (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=11537) (confirmation)

Jersey Tolkien Online Messageboard Post 8/12/02 (http://www.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=53111&start=56) (details)

Of course any of this could change, but these seem to be coming from reliable sources :D

Here is the link of the site I got it from, also if you scroll down they speak of Shelob, who is IN FACT in the 3rd movie :D

http://www.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_rotk.cfm

[Lady of Rohan]

I know that every one is talking about the RotK movie but has n e one heard if there is going to be a movie on The Hobbit?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Lady of Rohan
I know that every one is talking about the RotK movie but has n e one heard if there is going to be a movie on The Hobbit?

Nope, haven't heard anything, but that would rule! :D

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Evenstar1400
those of you who have seen the extended dvd version of Fotr............................ did sam recieve his gift from Galadriel??? if so, that can be another reason for the scouring of the shire being included in Rotk

Sam got rope... as his gift.:rolleyes:

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Dúnadain
Here are links to prove it:

My eyes!!! The spoilers... they're burning!!!

I couldn't have waited 'til dec anyway, so thanks.

[eowyngirl14]

Sam should have gotten his box of dirt! It is sybolic! BUt as I read in a different thread, if he doesn't get it, then what will he plant his tree with after the scouring of the shire... what does scouring mean anyway? That has been bugging me...a lot!:)

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Evenstar1400
Yes it is true (eowyngirl14) that i did see a pic of what seemed to be shelob on theonering.net. ive got it on my moms computer, but im not sure if it really is shelob from the movie or if it's just a picture drawn by some artist or fan. so if someone would tell me how to put the little pics below my username i could show everyone.

(ahem..........eowyngirl14................. you wouldnt get to my sorry little neck because i wouldve gotten to u first!!)

Well, accualy, I think I found the same pic. os Shelob, it loolks more like a photograph than an artists rendition! No... I would have gotten to you first!!!:)

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Cirdan
My eyes!!! The spoilers... they're burning!!!

I couldn't have waited 'til dec anyway, so thanks.

Is it worth the movie being spoiled to go to those sites? I can't decide if I want to or not...:)

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
Is it worth the movie being spoiled to go to those sites? I can't decide if I want to or not...:)

You never know if they are true, but many I heard before TTT turned out to be true. I think it may have prepped me for the changes, but then I'm a bit purist anyway. Bottom line... can you wait? Then you might as well.

[Dúnedain]

Well also there is no such thing as a spoiler if you've already read the book anyway, plus if what we read comes to be true it is just thoughts of what it will be like, but nothing like the final peice of art it becomes...

[Merlin]

(The Gollum Emicom Looks like Yoda. In the Face anyways.)
Where was Arwen going? Was the Director wrecking the movie more than it was already messed up. I don't know because this man in front of us was doing a play by play. The Elves weren't meant to leave yet. And Arwen isn't meant to leave at all. ( When I said that man was doing the play by plays, I mean he was catching every mistake and criticizing it.) Good movie otherwise.

[Lady of Rohan]

well i hope that there is a movie of the hobbit. if they do make a movie i'll be interested to see smauge ( i mean the dragon for those who can't interperate my spelling. too bad they dont have a blushing face in the smilies) and the spiders.oh and i'll be glad to see more of the dwarves too. I really liked there costume/outfit's in the movie but you didnt get to see much of them.:) and i want too see beorn too. so i do hope they make the movie.

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Lady of Rohan
well i hope that there is a movie of the hobbit. if they do make a movie i'll be interested to see smauge ( i mean the dragon for those who can't interperate my spelling. too bad they dont have a blushing face in the smilies) and the spiders.oh and i'll be glad to see more of the dwarves too. I really liked there costume/outfit's in the movie but you didnt get to see much of them.:) and i want too see beorn too. so i do hope they make the movie.


NOOOOOOO! NOt the spiders!!!!:)

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Dúnadain
Well also there is no such thing as a spoiler if you've already read the book anyway, plus if what we read comes to be true it is just thoughts of what it will be like, but nothing like the final peice of art it becomes...

Yes there can, if PJ decides to change the plot again... and maybe I don't want to see what the new charecters will look like!! They migth hae pictures!!:) I have read the books!:) :D :cool:

[golodh]

Originally posted by Evenstar1400
those of you who have seen the extended dvd version of Fotr............................ did sam recieve his gift from Galadriel??? if so, that can be another reason for the scouring of the shire being included in Rotk

sam got agift from galadriel, but he didn't get his seeds! he only got his rope! why would PJ have done that? sam needs hid box!

[eowyngirl14]

because they are cutting out the scouring of the shire! SO he doesn't need a seed to plant a tree, that will NEVER EXIST ON FILM!!!!

it was only a little box of dirt.... j/k please don't yell at me!

how did you come up with your screen name by the way?:)

[Nurvingiel]

Since ROTK is the shortest part, is there a chance the Scouring of the Shire won't get cut out? *pleads hopefully*

I know... I shouldn't get my hopes up.

It looks like the characters of Faramir and Saruman could really get screwed up here.

[eowyngirl14]

Funny you should say 'screwed up' I heard rumors that Saruman is going to fall on a spiked wheel or something... very very strange indeed!:) They better either save Faramir's charecter or let Eowyn have Aragorn!:)

[gdl96]

whoah. Looking back at this old thread, I realized my prediction was 100% right. :eek: Crazy.