how powerful is Sauron?

[sauron100]

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie to this forum and i love the Lord Of Rings movies, especially The Two Towers.What interests me is Saurons power and who can challenge him.In the movie, the characters said that they were scared of Sauron, Gandalf feared him, and that Saramon treats him as his lord when they are basically the same type of beings.

Is Sauron the most powerful of these beings?Or is there a reason whey he is so feared even by other maier?I do know that it took only two people to cut the ring from his hand, which also begs the question, was that some kind of ploy to let the ring decieve everyone and bring darkness to everyone,because it does seem pretty weak for the Dark Lord to fall otherwise this defeats the purpose of their being a Dark Lord that rules all.

[Taurwen]

umm. I know that Sauron is pretty damn powerful. He is probably the most powerful single being in Middle Earth. However, the collaboration of other powers allowed for his defeat. There are probably other maiar that are stronger than he, in the Undying Lands, but this was Middle Earth's ordeal, which is probably why they wouldn't help.

I'm not completely sure on any of this, but thats my two cents.

[Elf Girl]

He was once a Maia, that is Gandalf's order, but he was the most powerful of them, and thus more poserful than Gandalf.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Or is there a reason whey he is so feared even by other maierTwo, I think:

1. He was the #1 servant of the evil Vala, Melkor (or Morgoth, as the Noldor named him). See The Silmarillion for details. Morgoth was finally bundled right out of the world by the other Valar, but his will remained and Sauron was its chief administrator. He had learned much during the days of his service to Melkor, and his knowledge and experience had deepened in the ages since Melkor's banishment; he had been in Middle-earth far longer than the Istari.

2. The age of Men was coming, the Wise knew, and unlike Elves, Men could be both evil and good: they had demonstrated this since the days of their awakening ages earlier. It was crucial that they be influenced positively in the first years of their dominance, or they would just smother the world in a second darkness. Sauron knew this, too, of course, and so actively sought out men -- by the time of the War of the Ring he had all the major armies of men under his control except those of Gondor and Rohan.

PS: In the book, one person cuts off his finger and takes the Ring: Isildur, Elendil's son, as weregild for his father and brother (Anarion, who had been killed during the siege of Barad-Dur).

[Sister Golden Hair]

From the Silmarillion: Houghton Mifflin edition: 1977: Valaquenta

Speaking of Morgoth,

Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil then his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the void.

[markedel]

Sauron was in an interesting position-the ring increased his power a great deal-and he knew that those who would take it from him and wield it would be destroyed, either because they'd be to weak to wield it (i.e Isildur at the Gladden fields) or because by the time one did wield it Sauron would destory them first (i.e if Gandalf claimed the ring some would oppose him-and Sauron would step in and retake it). He never considered someone destroying it-and that's how Gandalf got him. Sauron, much like his master was stronger then those who opposed them, but was blinded by his evil so he couldn't win. So in that sense he's less powerful than his enemies.

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I don't think that Sauron cuoldn't win, he was very close to do it.

he was poewrful, more then the others , but he was the only thing that united his Arms.
the people of Gondor would fight even without thier leader and the others too, but without Sauron his people don't do anithing.

I'm sure I've done a lot of mistakes in english but I can't find them.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by markedel
Sauron was in an interesting position-the ring increased his power a great deal-and he knew that those who would take it from him and wield it would be destroyed, either because they'd be to weak to wield it (i.e Isildur at the Gladden fields) or because by the time one did wield it Sauron would destory them first (i.e if Gandalf claimed the ring some would oppose him-and Sauron would step in and retake it). He never considered someone destroying it-and that's how Gandalf got him. Sauron, much like his master was stronger then those who opposed them, but was blinded by his evil so he couldn't win. So in that sense he's less powerful than his enemies. The Ring did not increase his power. He put forth his power into the Ring. If anything it decreased his being.

[WallRocker]

Originally posted by Elbereth Gilthoniel
I don't think that Sauron cuoldn't win, he was very close to do it.
True. I think this was Tolkien's idea to show that the people who you least escpect will will sometimes suprise you.

[markedel]

I should say his powers of domination. It allowed him to control others more effectively. After all Sauron's purpose is to build and to repair, not to control.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

...by the time one did wield it Sauron would destory them first (i.e if Gandalf claimed the ring some would oppose him-and Sauron would step in and retake it). You know, it always puzzled me that, after the battle for Minas Tirith and on the way to the Morannon, Aragorn and Gandalf succeeded in misleading Sauron into thinking some one among them had claimed or would claim the Ring -- wouldn't he know right away if anybody claimed it?was blinded by his evil so he couldn't win. So in that sense he's less powerful than his enemies.Excellent point!After all Sauron's purpose is to build and to repair, not to control.Er...isn't that backwards? True, he had to build and rebuild Barad-Dur and repair all the nasty holes in Mordor and the front gates that had been made by the Last Alliance :) but Control would have been his middle name had he had more than one name to begin with.

[markedel]

Sauron was a Maia of AUle and as such his purpose at creation was to build. Even after the first age when he refused to to repent his orginal thought was to help rebuild middle earth-but he was far too corrupted to really repent. Arguably he might have really wanted to become Annatar in truth, but could not do so. He lacked the strength of will to repent.

[Sister Golden Hair]

So, any Maia under a Vala was to perform or serve in the particular task that the Vala was assigned to by Eru?

[markedel]

I'd say a Maia has inherant abilities. Sauron was of the people of Aule, just as Gandalf was of Irmo (I think). Their abilities corresponded to those of the Vala, and I assume they were created to aid the Valar in their labor.

[Sween]

Originally posted by markedel
I'd say a Maia has inherant abilities. Sauron was of the people of Aule, just as Gandalf was of Irmo (I think). Their abilities corresponded to those of the Vala, and I assume they were created to aid the Valar in their labor.

think gandalf was of Manwe people

[markedel]

I don't have my UT with me, but I think he was sent by Manwe-in the Sil it says he lived in Lorien.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Gandalf was a Maia under Manwe.

The Silmarillion doesn't say that the Maiar were created to aid the Valar, but it says that they were servants to the Valar. I guess that's kind of the same thing.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Gandalf was a Maia under Manwe.

The Silmarillion doesn't say that the Maiar were created to aid the Valar, but it says that they were servants to the Valar. I guess that's kind of the same thing.

well techincally valar and mair are the same race just the name the valar indicates the beings with the greater power. All of these being were blessed with a part of the mind of eru so its fair to say that they just harkened to the valar in which they had most in common. Sauron and saurman were both very intrested in building and such like and therefore harkened to Aule at least for a time Aule was also most like mind to melkor so thats probably why they turned to evil.

Radagast was of yavanna (correct me if im wrong) so have love for birds and plants. As for gandalf he shows little use of the winds in lord of the rings but he is kingly and good at leading much like manwe himself

[Sister Golden Hair]

Aule was also most like mind to melkor so thats probably why they turned to evil. I don't understand this statement. Aule was a good guy.

[markedel]

I think he means that the desire to create and explore through the physical world (Aule's "thing" for lack of a better word at the moment) can be subverted into desire for domination over the physical.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I don't understand this statement. Aule was a good guy.

it states in the sil somewhere that melkor and aule were most like in mind and skill, both loved to create things of there own whilst the rest tened to work much more closely.

I find it intresting that both sauron and saurman were origionally of aules people

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think this is the part your are refering to.

From the Silmarillion. Houghton Mifflin edition. 1977. Valaquenta.

Of Aule:

Melkor was jealous of him, for Aule was most like himself in thought and in powers; and there was long strife between them, in which Melkor ever marred or undid the works of Aule, and Aule grew weary in repairing the tumults and disorders of Melkor. Both, also, desired to make things of their own that should be new and unthought of by others, and delighted in the praise of their skill. But Aule remained faithful to Eru, and submitted all that he did to his will; and he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave counsel. Whereas Melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the thought of others, and all their works he destroyed if he could.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I think this is the part your are refering to.

From the Silmarillion. Houghton Mifflin edition. 1977. Valaquenta.

Of Aule:

aye thats the part. So they are to an extent cut from the same cloth

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yep, you're right. Thanks Sween. My memory is now refreshed.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yep, you're right. Thanks Sween. My memory is now refreshed.

you know me ne thing to help :D

[entss89]

no he cant be the most powerfull bacause a hobbit beat him, pretty sad!
:D

[Falagar]

Bet Morgoth would be proud of him! :D