I'm disgusted [Archive]

Sister Golden Hair

12-23-2002, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Falagar
(I'm going to get killed for this, but...) I actually liked the way they killed off Haldir! With some nice, angel-like music and Aragorn crying'n all :D The perfect end for a (great?) elf! I agree.

Blackboar

12-23-2002, 01:44 PM

I don't really know what to think:rolleyes: (But then I often don't)

I loved Haldir and I am annoyed that Peter Jackson killed him off but I also agree Sister Golden Hair and Falagar:p

Sister Golden Hair

12-23-2002, 01:53 PM

I think the arrival of the Elves at Helms Deep, and the death of Haldir was a nice twist to the story eventhough it didn't happen that way in the books. It added an exciting element to the scene and it was very moving when he died.

WallRocker

12-23-2002, 01:57 PM

HOBBIT

12-23-2002, 02:00 PM

I liked it - it fit in with the movie very well. Get over it. The movie and book are separate - it was a very good movie.

BeardofPants

12-23-2002, 02:04 PM

I laughed. That guy couldn't act to save himself, and he doesn't look particularly elvish to me...

zavron

12-23-2002, 02:49 PM

I've already done an Rpg for this, but what the hey!!:D

Yazad

12-23-2002, 03:03 PM

The chap playing Haldir was such a horrific actor and his role was so poor that I can't thank Jackson enough for killing him. I think it was just about the only good decision Jackson made in this gawd awful movie.

Yazad

Nilore

12-23-2002, 03:11 PM

ELF SLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Celebréiel

12-23-2002, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I laughed. That guy couldn't act to save himself, and he doesn't look particularly elvish to me...
Yep, I agree..at first I was p'oed but after separating the book and movie, I liked it! ;) A little too sappy dramatic, but he died and that was good.
~Celebréiel

Nilore

12-24-2002, 05:37 AM

How they did it was good and it fit in the film but why they did it I don't know?

Blackboar

12-24-2002, 05:46 AM

Write to Jackson and ask!! Or email him!!!;)

I would!! We could come up with on together!!

Everyone on the Moot!!;)

Fat middle

12-24-2002, 07:01 AM

i agree it was a nice ending. in his last combat he showed that he had some blood in his veins.

those elves at Helm's Deep seem too marshall for my taste. they behave very similar to the droids of SW1 & 2. Haldir's death, at least, was more vivid.

Elf.Freak

12-24-2002, 08:10 AM

i didn't like Haldir, but it was sad seeing an elf die...come on! elves are immortal! well...they can be killed in battle...but that's not my point! i bet TONS of Haldir fans were upset by his...death...i mean, the Frodo fans won't be happy if Frodo died;)

Nilore

12-24-2002, 08:26 AM

Damn right you've got a point there!!!!!!!!!

Arathorn

12-24-2002, 10:37 AM

The actor who played Haldir reminds me of red-shirted guards in Star Trek: The Original Series. He had a good death scene though. Maybe he can get resurrected in the next film and ride back in an elven ship with Glorfindel if you guys sign a petition, who knows. :rolleyes:

durin's bane

12-24-2002, 04:03 PM

I don't like Haldir. He was a bit rude, but his death scene was pretty, despite the sickening blow to the head (I felt so sick and bored during Helm's Deep)

samwise of the shire

12-24-2002, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by HOBBIT
I liked it - it fit in with the movie very well. Get over it. The movie and book are separate - it was a very good movie.
I couldn't agree with you more completely Hobbit. And as for me I think Haldir the character sucked...but if you think about it seeing an elf die...in slow mo up close while realizing that isn't supposed to happen is sobering.
Cheers,
Sam

Shadowfax

12-24-2002, 06:22 PM

Sam I agree with you too! Seeing an elf die was moving.

eowyngirl14

12-24-2002, 06:28 PM

I nkow that the book and movie are seperate things, but if they wanted them to be totally seperate they wouldn't have to add
Based on the novel by J.R.R. Tolkien
at the end. I didn't like it when Haldir died, it was sooooo sad! I cryed a lot a lot a lot! I don't think that Haldir was rude at all! It's true, he seemed a bit self centered and acts like he is superior at times. But maybe that's just because he is an elf and his people are passing into the Grey Havens and he doesn't want to leave. Give the guy a breaK! Have some compassion!:)

Elenka

12-24-2002, 09:00 PM

I dunno...I didn't really like his part, but I didn't really want to see him killed...his death scene was great though:D

Earniel

12-25-2002, 08:33 AM

I liked the fact that they killed him off, not that I didn't like him but because I hadn't expected they would. (Neither had I expected him showing up, but hey.) But the way they did it, was... I don't know... a bit tacky. The slow motion, him seeing that many of his elven companions are dead, the fact that Aragorn is desperately trying to reach him but getting there too late. It looked a little fake. I nearly laughed.

Millane

12-25-2002, 09:04 AM

I nkow that the book and movie are seperate things, but if they wanted them to be totally seperate they wouldn't have to add Based on the novel by JRR Tolkien
no they sat based on the novel by Tolkien because it is based not the word for word replica of it...
MWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thats right you all say its sad when and elf dies but you cant hide it now... you really didnt like old haldir... we can all sit here and whinge abut PJ and him righting a mistake or we can whinge with a bit of body for the loss of Boromir...

diannah

12-25-2002, 04:50 PM

hell yes it was terrible to kill off Haldir! In my opinion he was the only cool elf. But you have to give ol' Peter credit--it was a beatiful death scene!

cassiopeia

12-26-2002, 02:26 AM

Haldir's death didn't really bother me, it felt like it was over in about 10 seconds. He didn't look elvish to me, actually he looked a bit fat. :)

Blackboar

12-26-2002, 09:26 AM

FAT!! I think he was kind of medium. It was a beautiful death scene but I was astonished when he died! I didn't think he would die! It was the least I expected!

Amandil

12-26-2002, 04:01 PM

Wow, this is an intelligent conversation.

Later, skaters.

ElvenMagic

12-26-2002, 04:07 PM

Yes, it was terrible that they killed him but the music was quite lovely...he certainly deserved such nice music......crazy crazy me...i'm rambling..o well...when i saw it the second time and i knew it was coming i was so upset. i nearly cried. it was quite horrible. dont you think?

Nurvingiel

12-27-2002, 10:22 PM

Haldir's death was pointless, contrived, and random.

Gwaimir Windgem

12-28-2002, 01:12 AM

I agree, cassiommy, he looked rather chubby for an Elf to me. That's why I never liked him; he didn't Elvish at all, even disregarding the, ahem, well-rounded chin.

diannah

12-28-2002, 08:54 AM

I hate to enlighten you people, but being an Elf is more an internal thing. They're virtues are not limited to being fair to look at. Haldir was wise and good and that's more important.

Gwaimir Windgem

12-28-2002, 10:14 AM

Haldir didn't seem particularly wise or good in the movie. And also, your right that its more internal than exterior, but what's the point of having an Elf if he's going to look like he's half-way to Orc?

Sister Golden Hair

12-28-2002, 11:24 AM

I didn't find Haldir especially unattractive, but he is not up to Elven standards in appearance. Yes the Elves were more spiritual, but did you ever here of a fat ugly Elf? Haldir was ok. Just remember that all the Elves in the flick are really humans.:D So in reallity, there isn't a guy in that movie that's up to Elven standards in appearance. If everyone thinks Legolas in the movie was the best looking Elf, if Legolas really existed, Orlando Bloom wouldn't have a prayer of being more handsome.:D

Elenessiel

12-30-2002, 01:08 AM

Yes, Haldir's death was contrived, but it was certainly not pointless or random. PJ needed to let viewers know on some level that the elves fighting this battle were making a sacrifice. Haldir was in a suitable position (i.e. we know him but he's no huge loss) to demonstrate. Think about it. How often do we actually see elves die? They may be immortal, but that doesn't mean that this war isn't hurting them. Give PJ some credit. He knows what he's doing.

Lady of Rivendell

12-30-2002, 03:32 AM

I see the point on both sides. I was surprised to see that they did kill Haldir off but wasn't shocked. It had to be someone to make the point that they were trying to convey. On the other hand, I really think it was wasted on Haldir. They could have used another, or gone about it a different way.

Nurvingiel...If your still around here, I wanted to thank you again for your welcome on the other board. I've been trying to pm you but the Moot doesn't seem to like me right now and won't let me do it!=-)

Nurvingiel

12-30-2002, 03:43 AM

When I said his death was pointless and random, I was really referring to the Elves presence at the battle in the first place.

TTT is a great stand-alone movie, so I won't point out that the Elves didn't even think about fighting at Helm's deep in the book. Right... I won't mention that at all. ;)

Even ignoring the book, the movie does not explain anything.

I could think of reasons why the elves of Lothlorien would want to be at that battle, but none of them are brought up in the movie.

I agree that Haldir's death demonstrates the sacrifice of the elves, except, why are the elves there at all? This is why I thought it was pointless.

And why Haldir? PJ is making this part up anyway, so I suppose killing off an elf we already know is more poignant. So maybe it wasn't totally random, but this does not seem like a valid reason for killing a character.

I felt very sad watching the scene of Haldir's death, but it also felt hollow. It was put on, and I'm not sure why.

Nurvingiel

12-30-2002, 03:55 AM

Hey Lady of Rivendell, I am still around. I was going to pm you too, but there seems to be a 'slight problem with the Entmoot database'. I'm sure it'll be fine soon, we'll talk. ;)

Generally, I apologize if my annoyance at deviations from Tolkein's plot in the movie spill out into my posts. Nothing personal against anyone. :)

Lady of Rivendell

12-30-2002, 04:06 AM

Hey Nurvingiel! I noticed that slight "problem with the Entmoot database"......funny thing, isn't it?

Annoyance is fine...=-) That can be a good thing. I review movies for a very small paper and it just iritates me to no end when people write to me and trash my reviews. I've never said " You should not go see this movie" about anything. I tell people what I think and why I think it, and then tell them to go see the movie and find out for themselves! I just have a hard time when people are really hard edged about their opinions and make other people feel stupid. Usually I find something to say about that. Luckily, I've read some of your posts and have never seen you get that way so you have nothing to apologize for!=-)

Btw, I've come to the conclusion that Entmoot needs a chatroom!=-)

Gerbil

12-30-2002, 06:19 AM

I hate to enlighten you people, but being an Elf is more an internal thing. They're virtues are not limited to being fair to look at. Haldir was wise and good and that's more important. Actually though, most important is that he's now brown bread (rhyming slang in case you couldn't guess ;)).

Elenessiel

12-31-2002, 01:44 AM

Nurvingiel, thank you for that clarification of your earlier remark about the pointlessness of Haldir's death. You make some valid points, and I certainly agree that PJ could have articulated the Elves' reasons for showing up a little (lot) better. However, what he did not specifically articulate was hinted at very nicely in what my sister* refers to as the "telepathic communication" scene. (You know, Elrond is moping around Rivendell debating what his role in the coming conflict should be, and he and Galadriel do a couple voiceovers.) Elrond presents his (vague) reasons for not wanting to get involved in what is hopefully not intended to be a real convincing argument. He has obviously changed his mind, and the arrival of the elves illuminates far more about Elrond than about Haldir or anyone that actually shows up. Not everything I was hoping for, but certainly better than nothing.

*Said sister is wonderful and beautiful and thinks she's an elf. She is an elf in fact. She's also peering over my shoulder at the moment. She insists that I give her credit for the astoundingly clever comment I posted on the "What they were really thinking" thread.
All right Lucy, are you happy now?
She is.

Lanelf

12-31-2002, 02:04 AM

I didn't belive PJ did that! When Haldir carked it, I started saying "PJ must DIE!" right there in the cinema. What was the point of having one of my FAVOURITE elves die at Helms Deep? And like that? Bleep, Boromir got a better death scene!
Lanelf.

Gerbil

12-31-2002, 08:29 AM

Elrond / Galadriel's 'help' was pretty dam stingy if you ask me.
Honouring the old alliance does not mean sending a couple of hundred soldiers to fight for all of middle earth.

If that's their idea of help, they can shove it, the tight-fisted old gits.

Elf Girl

12-31-2002, 09:47 AM

middleEarthStar

12-31-2002, 02:26 PM

but why change the history??
Haldir dies in the book too.

eowyngirl14

12-31-2002, 03:10 PM

When does Haldir die in the books? I don't remeber that part...

Gerbil

12-31-2002, 04:06 PM

It happens at Helm's Deep of course!

I'm waiting for the book versions of the film to come out - I can hardly wait to shout and scream and rant!

Think I'll go practice now and scare the neighbours...

Sister Golden Hair

01-01-2003, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by middleEarthStar
but why change the history??
Haldir dies in the book too. Haldir does not die in the book.

Nurvingiel

01-05-2003, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Gerbil
Elrond / Galadriel's 'help' was pretty dam stingy if you ask me.
Honouring the old alliance does not mean sending a couple of hundred soldiers to fight for all of middle earth.

If that's their idea of help, they can shove it, the tight-fisted old gits.

Well, PJ isn't quite as good a story teller as Tolkien. Maybe he (or his writers) just accidentally missed that detail when he was making up that part of the plot. ;)

I saw TTT again, and I enjoyed it much more the second time, probably because I was mentally prepared for massive book deviations.

This time in the scene where Haldir dies, I was deeply moved. I still think the whole thing was contrived, random, and pointless - see previous clarifications - but now my harsh opinion is softened a tiny bit. I rage that Haldir died like that, but for a brief moment, I was very touched, and could ignore all the stupid aspects of that scene.

The moving part, for me, is where Haldir is on his knees, expressions of shock and confusion on his face. It seems that he is completely alone in the battle. This part lasts for roughly two seconds. Then Aragorn runs up and it loses its poignancy.

Thanks for the nice things you said Elenessiel!

Millane

01-05-2003, 09:38 AM

hhahahahha i love all this anti haldir sentiment
Boromir got a better death scene!
THATS BECAUSE BOROMIR WAS BETTER!!!!!:mad: :mad:
They're virtues are not limited to being fair to look at.
ahhh but it is one virtue and haldir must have been elsewhere while Illuvatar was making the elves pretty... he does have a fat face, i think SGH somes him up pretty well fat ugly elf hehehehe.
all in all he wasnt that big of a carachter to justify a death scene...
i think they should have given Movie Gil-galad a death scene as he was in it about as much as Haldir andhe was a 1000000x better elf...

legolasluvr2931

01-05-2003, 04:22 PM

I with u Nilore! It was so sad. I cried! I didn't think that i would but i did.

Nurvingiel

01-05-2003, 07:24 PM

I'm not anti-Haldir, I just thought PJ messed up his character and gave him a dumb death scene. None of this stupidity is Haldir's fault, and he isn't ugly by a long shot. I think he's good-looking. ;)

eowyngirl14

01-05-2003, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I'm not anti-Haldir, I just thought PJ messed up his character and gave him a dumb death scene. None of this stupidity is Haldir's fault, and he isn't ugly by a long shot. I think he's good-looking. ;)

I likes his death scene! At first I had no idea what was going on, 'He can't die! He just can't' I kept telling myself!:)

Millane

01-06-2003, 01:00 AM

i cannot understand this at all how could you cry for an elf that was in it for that short a time and had no big role to play and in all the scenes you saw him he was being a wanker when you first see him he insults a dwarf already with hostile feelings towards elves with a few axes ready to kill in an instant, well he must have missed the elves intelligence aswell as there looks, next scene Aragorn has to beg him to be allowed through Lothlorien, at Helms deep when he turns up aragorn hugs him and he stands there with his get-away-from-me-filthy-mortal look on... honestly i think an arrow or 2 would have been fitting..

Starr Polish

01-06-2003, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
I nkow that the book and movie are seperate things, but if they wanted them to be totally seperate they wouldn't have to add
Based on the novel by J.R.R. Tolkien
at the end.

It's called copywrite issues.

Huan

01-06-2003, 03:44 AM

In the book or not, I love the elves at Helm's deep. First, they create a brilliant contrast with the other soldiers in the film. Think about it: those Eastern/Southern/whatever soldiers and the orcs out of Isengard make a truly oppressive noise marching. You really want to cover your ears or leave for the bathroom or something. Then these elven troops arrive, and the only sound they make is a slight russling noise. Beautiful. And Haldir himself: taken from the book as it was, I enjoyed his haughty introduction to Gimli: "A dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark." Then you add the extra screen time from the Extended DVD, and you have a character. I was astounded by his death scene: that the filmmakers would dare kill someone just because Tolkien didn't say otherwise. But sold as I already was by those beautifully noiseless elven archers, I so bought into it. The only objection I might raise is that to my mind, I'm not sure elves should sweat as much as Haldir was at his time of demise.

Lady of Rohan

01-06-2003, 09:24 AM

I thought that it was so sad when Haldir died.

azalea

01-06-2003, 01:41 PM

Millane, Haldir wasn't thinking "get away you filthy mortal," PJ had established the way elves give each other a warm greeting -- they do not hug, but extend the right arm and grasp the shoulder of the other elf, which Aragorn knew and had done w/ Legolas earlier after the fake death thing. But Aragorn was so moved by their coming that he gave the "warm man greeting" too. Haldir didn't know about this, so he just reacts thinking "what is he doing" but then seems to understand and hug him back a little. I don't remember if elves hug in the books, but this is how PJ has done it, so that's why Haldir seems that way when Aragorn hugs him.

eowyngirl14

01-06-2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Starr Polish
It's called copywrite issues.

I was kinda joking abuot that...:)

eowyngirl14

01-06-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by azalea
Millane, Haldir wasn't thinking "get away you filthy mortal," PJ had established the way elves give each other a warm greeting -- they do not hug, but extend the right arm and grasp the shoulder of the other elf, which Aragorn knew and had done w/ Legolas earlier after the fake death thing. But Aragorn was so moved by their coming that he gave the "warm man greeting" too. Haldir didn't know about this, so he just reacts thinking "what is he doing" but then seems to understand and hug him back a little. I don't remember if elves hug in the books, but this is how PJ has done it, so that's why Haldir seems that way when Aragorn hugs him.

very well put!:) I agree completly! I still didn't like it when the elves show up at Helm's Deep!

eowyngirl14

01-06-2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Millane
i cannot understand this at all how could you cry for an elf that was in it for that short a time and had no big role to play and in all the scenes you saw him he was being a wanker when you first see him he insults a dwarf already with hostile feelings towards elves with a few axes ready to kill in an instant, well he must have missed the elves intelligence aswell as there looks, next scene Aragorn has to beg him to be allowed through Lothlorien, at Helms deep when he turns up aragorn hugs him and he stands there with his get-away-from-me-filthy-mortal look on... honestly i think an arrow or 2 would have been fitting..

Maybe you can't understand it because you are not a teenage girl... or are you?? Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'wanker' mean?:)

azalea

01-06-2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
... what does 'wanker' mean?:)

Don't ask.:rolleyes:

Elfhelm

01-06-2003, 05:43 PM

Gondoran men kiss each other. So do Hobbits. PJ only has one kiss, after Boromir is dead, and none by Hobbits. I don't see any elf hugging or kissing in any of the books. So I guess Aragorn's hug was an all-too-human thing for our "Vulcanized" elves. I think in most people's AD&D world, elves are more affectionate than humans, but not in Tolkien's weird rendition of elves.

Huan

01-06-2003, 06:14 PM

Elfhelm wrote:
I think in most people's AD&D world, elves are more affectionate than humans, but not in Tolkien's weird rendition of elves.

The AD&D elves are actually based on Tolkien's "weird rendition." How are his elves any weirder than Shakespeare's, with his "damned cobwebs," in Tolkien's words, or the ones who make toys for Santa Claus? Anyway, it's actually never occured to me to roleplay my D&D elves as more affectionate than humans. Well, I do have one NPC who was obsessed with women, but other than him. Gosh, how off-topic am I? :)

Arcala

01-06-2003, 06:19 PM

I agree with you! That wasn't the best thing to change.:(

Evenstar1400

01-06-2003, 07:59 PM

Bout the elves at helms deep:

it was a little messed up, but PJ sorta made it symbolize that theres still hope as long as the peoples of middle earth remain as one.

Bout Haldir's death:

i think he shoulda just been injured by a sword or something, and then got up and kept fighting and was okay. it kinda was almost saying elves are weak. i mean......... the thing with all the dead elves lying under the uruk hai? come on! it was almost like legolas was the only surviving elf in the battle of helms deep (which isnt entirely a bad thing cause if legolas died in battle in the books or the movies i wouldnt be able to stop sobbing and im getting off topic.....) PJ should have at the least have a few more elves seen riding out to meet the uruk hai as the last chance for survival. but thats just my opinion.

eowyngirl14

01-06-2003, 08:13 PM

HHHhhhmmmmm... interesting opinion... in my opinion!:)

Nurvingiel

01-08-2003, 04:57 AM

About Haldir's death, I just didn't think it was well done. The second time I saw TTT, I tried to completely seperate it from the book. Unfortunately, this is impossible, but PJ should have known that the book already set a huge precedent. In making a movie from arguably one of the greatest books ever written, PJ owed it to the readers to stay as true as possible.

Haldir's death scene was clearly added in. It didn't sit well, or feel right. PJ isn't an author, he just has some writer's who can't compare to Tolkien's mastery. Some of the 'extra' scenes are fine, because they're not too important.

However, take something meaningful like the death of an Elf, and a cool one at that, and the pointlessness of the scene is glaringly obvious.

eowyngirl14

01-08-2003, 05:01 PM

I don't think it was pointless, as someone else said, not on this thread I think though. It would be a little too lucky for all of the main charecters to survive! While they were talking about how many people/ elves (in the movie) died! It would be unrealistic. Haldir was the least important-important charecter that they could kill off, and still not totally kill the plot!

Nurvingiel

01-09-2003, 05:43 PM

When I say Haldir's death is pointless, I mean that the elves at Helm's Deep were inserted into the plot without any explanation or history. Then, Haldir was killed because PJ wanted to kill off someone we cared about, but not someone who was intergral to the rest of the plot.

Haldir's death had a point only in the sense that it existed for poetic purposes. It did not have a point with respect to plot or character development.

LuthienTinuviel

01-09-2003, 08:20 PM

i have always thought of elves being affectionate, just with each other, not the filthy mortals :D
besides, through lord of the rings we can niether confirm nor deny the prescense of elven loving emotion (haha im practicing to be a politician for a school project)
hahah

but no, really, all we know for sure is that they had kids, everyone knows how to make kids, right? (if you don't, go ask your parents, and you didn't hear it from me;) )

but how do we know what happened in Lothlorien, in the second age???:confused:

but anyways, i liked the way they did the death scene, even though i think it shouldn't have been there.

entss89

01-11-2003, 08:29 PM

i am so with you! its like a nightmera!

Millane

01-12-2003, 12:58 AM

Maybe you can't understand it because you are not a teenage girl... or are you?? Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'wanker' mean?
nah im not a teenage girl and dont worry about the wanker thing... i just cant see how anyone could get so attatched to Haldir, i mean Boromir was so much more likeable haldir died because he wasnt a good enough fighter he shouldnt have let aragorn distract him...
ohhh and i loved the elves at helms deep and i love elves but not the haldir variety of course;)

Nurvingiel

01-12-2003, 04:53 PM

I cried when Boromir died, it was so sad. But it was okay because that's what Tolkien wrote. I don't like any huge deviation from the book, and it's even worse when a character is killed off for entertainment purposes.

eowyngirl14

01-13-2003, 09:00 PM

I agree that the elves should not have been in Helm's Deep! I too cried buckets when Boromir died!! It was soooo sad! but it was done beautifully despite the mix up in arrows... (he is shot with an arrow in the same spot twice...):) :)

Nurvingiel

01-13-2003, 10:01 PM

Through my tears, I never noticed the arrow mix up. I don't tend to notice Easter eggs or mistakes in movies.

eowyngirl14

01-14-2003, 05:26 PM

I didn't notice the arrows untill one of my friends told me, and then I saw it on the DVD. :) :) What is an easter egg?

Nurvingiel

01-15-2003, 02:56 AM

Easter eggs are things that people doing the grunt work on movies - usually animators - plant on-purpose to be funny. I don't think the arrows would be an Easter egg.

eowyngirl14

01-15-2003, 04:57 PM

Can you give me an example? I am rather slow... wouldn't PJ make them take it out if he noticed?

an example of an easter egg I mean!:) :)

Huan

01-15-2003, 05:07 PM

I just got through rereading the Golden Hall chapter of TTT and seeing the movie again, and I realized that though I'm not disgusted that they killed Haldir, THEY KILLED HAMA! Now that I remember who he is and what he does and says in the book, I cannot believe they did this! Killed by a damn warg no less!

eowyngirl14

01-15-2003, 05:28 PM

I know! It's terrible! The wargs were so cute and the mean men were accualy killing them? CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

Just kidding... scared ya there didn't I?

They took away all of Hama's glory! Darn movie makers!...:) :)

Artanis

01-15-2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Huan
I just got through rereading the Golden Hall chapter of TTT and seeing the movie again, and I realized that though I'm not disgusted that they killed Haldir, THEY KILLED HAMA! Now that I remember who he is and what he does and says in the book, I cannot believe they did this! Killed by a damn warg no less! Hm, would you also care to re-read the chapters about Lorien, and then tell us how you feel? :)

Huan

01-16-2003, 01:44 AM

Point taken.

Nurvingiel

01-16-2003, 04:13 AM

I didn't see any in TTT. If I planted an Easter egg, maybe I'd have Frodo wearing red stockings in the Prancing Pony scene, or have berries on a thorn bush in Mordor.

Can someone throw in an actual Easter egg from TTT?

Dunadan

01-16-2003, 05:16 AM

Hello

I thought that Hama was killed in the book, too. Wasn't there a line that Theoden delivered to Saruman in the Voice of Saruman chapter, recalling how his body was hewed by Saruman's army before the gates of the Burg?

cheers

d

Amandil

01-16-2003, 08:01 AM

Yes, indeed, Hama was killed (in the book) at Helm's Deep, whilst fighting in front of the gates...

Huan

01-16-2003, 12:07 PM

But it isn't mentioned in the Helm's Deep chapter itself, is it? I haven't had time to past that point. So he did die. But still, he wasn't killed by a made-up warg!

Dunadan

01-16-2003, 01:17 PM

Granted.
There is a roll-call of the dead at the start of The Road to Isengard, in which Theoden promises to remember Hama's death when he meets Saruman.

If you haven't read that far, all that is a spoiler for you.

BTW - what do you think of the book, seeing as how you've come to it via the film (rather than the other way round)?

Huan

01-16-2003, 07:59 PM

No, I've already read the book, but it was in 1998. Long enough for all the details to seem new to me.

Nurvingiel

01-17-2003, 01:17 AM

1988... that's back in the day ;) Hama did die at Helm's deep, in the book. Maybe he did in the movie too, but it just wasn't focused on his character. (I don't know about his son though. I don't actually think they conscripted people for that battle.)

Huan

01-17-2003, 01:33 AM

No, nineteen NINETY-eight. And in the movie Hama died on the way to Helm's Deep, killed by the very first warg encountered, the scout. They kind of did conscribe/conscript (?) fighters in the book: at Edoras, Theoden calls for every man who can bear arms to get him some to bear. But there's not this focus on little kiddies with battleaxes. In that regard, I read a really good review of the movie by a professional critic who'd actually read the book, who said that all the sequences dwelling on the women and children were not very Tolkien: he'd have cared more about the horses. I thought that was great.

Dunadan

01-17-2003, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Huan
who said that all the sequences dwelling on the women and children were not very Tolkien: he'd have cared more about the horses.
LOL! Remind me, in the book, is it Gamling who has his son's son beside him at Helm's Deep?

Huan

01-17-2003, 02:53 PM

I didn't see anything about son's sons, but I dunno. If anyone would have a son's son, it'd be Gamling the Old. Was he supposed to be anyone in the movie, do you think? Hopefully not the old guy who can't hold his arrow.

samwiselvr2008

01-17-2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I think the arrival of the Elves at Helms Deep, and the death of Haldir was a nice twist to the story eventhough it didn't happen that way in the books. It added an exciting element to the scene and it was very moving when he died.

I agree, this sounds weird, but I actually go some tears in my eyes! I just started thinking "they shouldn't die, they should live forever, they are imortal!" and even though that part was not in the books, I still loved it. It reminded me about how nice elves are, ect. It was sweet. But I don't remember who Haldir is, who is he?

Nurvingiel

01-17-2003, 05:25 PM

Argh! 'Nice twist' 'Who is Haldir' *falls on the floor convulsing*. Okay, I will admit that Haldir's death made me cry, as it was very moving.

Answer to who is Haldir:

Haldir is the elf who says "The Dwarf breathes so loudly, we could shoot him in the dark," in both the book and the the movie FotR!

Then, it TTT movie, he greets Aragorn at Helm's Deep when the elves *twitch* join the battle. Haldir, of course, is not in the book TTT.

samwiselvr2008

01-17-2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Argh! 'Nice twist' 'Who is Haldir' *falls on the floor convulsing*. Okay, I will admit that Haldir's death made me cry, as it was very moving.

Answer to who is Haldir:

Haldir is the elf who says "The Dwarf breathes so loudly, we could shoot him in the dark," in both the book and the the movie FotR!

Then, it TTT movie, he greets Aragorn at Helm's Deep when the elves *twitch* join the battle. Haldir, of course, is not in the book TTT.

I thought that that was who it was, however I didn't want to think that it was him and be rong!

Millane

01-18-2003, 07:20 AM

Haldir is the elf who says "The Dwarf breathes so loudly, we could shoot him in the dark," in both the book and the the movie FotR!
ummm no in the book Legolas translates and says to sam "they say you breathe so loudly they could shoot you in the dark" in the movie Haldir says it and gimli should have tought him some respect with his axe...
haldir wasnt such a bad fella in the book was he?
who was it that said that without haldir the Uruks would have won... well i couldnt say anything because i hadnt seen it then but ive seen it a few times now and how many uruks does it show him killing well i dunno probly 1 the one that hurts him before he is killed.
ohhh never mind that Hama was killed in that warg attack how bout his son what a little girl..

azalea

01-18-2003, 02:59 PM

Why, just because he has long hair and is nervous about fighting in his first battle? I can think of plenty of men that would get nervous in that situation, too!

Lanelf

01-18-2003, 10:43 PM

I didn't find Haldir's death at all moving! I mean, not even a decent death scene with last words! Just a bit of music and a slow-mo. PJ must DIE!
It did nearly make me cry, too - Haldir was one of my favourite Elves. And he owed me a bagel.
Lanelf.

Millane

01-19-2003, 02:12 AM

Why, just because he has long hair and is nervous about fighting in his first battle? I can think of plenty of men that would get nervous in that situation, too!
well yeah the long hair sorta does give off the girlish appearence. nervous he should have taken a lesson off those berzerkers and got himself hyped up.

Nurvingiel

01-19-2003, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by Millane
ummm no in the book Legolas translates and says to sam "they say you breathe so loudly they could shoot you in the dark" in the movie Haldir says it and gimli should have tought him some respect with his axe...

More than likely, you are right. It doesn't matter that I don't remember this particular quote word for word (or even who said it :rolleyes: .)

The point is, then intent of the quote is still there. It's nice to see liasons between the book and the movie, even if they are slightly altered.

Gaporli

02-27-2003, 06:56 PM

I was sad that Haldir was killed off, but at least he died bravely.

forest_flower

03-15-2003, 08:31 PM

HALDIR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i could strangle p. jackson for killing him-craig parker does a lousy job, SO! he's still haldir!!!!!!!!!

haldir lives through SO many battles, why must he die BEFORE gandalf comes, it's insulting

i have a HUGE mental list of people responsible for his death, in and (hint, hint) in charge of the movie

also, haldir's NOT rude he's just VERY arrogant (and it's amusing)

*i'm sorry but reading all that made me v. mad, i could blabber on and on all day about that topic, AND his death*