Feanor

[Nilore]

It took the chief Balrog to kill Feanor in the sil but a stupid orc goes and sticks a basic weapon in Haldir and he dies!!!!?????????

How come?????????

[Falagar]

Because Fëanor was the greatest of the ñoldor.
They don't make Elves like that anymore ;)

[bropous]

Haldir hadn't been feeling well lately.....

BTW, the scene of Gandalf fighting the Balrog at the beginning of TTT really made me think about Glorfindel.....

[Artanis]

Right. And Glorfindel wasn't even a Maia.

Falagar is right. Remember the Elves were fading in Middle-Earth. Their bodies had weakened. And Feanor was the mightiest of the Noldor.

[Nilore]

I suppose but how did his super hearing not hear a clumsy orc screaming his head right behind him?

[Falagar]

Tired?

[Turgon]

Originally posted by Artanis
Falagar is right. Remember the Elves were fading in Middle-Earth. Their bodies had weakened. And Feanor was the mightiest of the Noldor.
Hahaha! Their bones were weakening, where’d you get that information? LOL!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Turgon
Hahaha! Their bones were weakening, where’d you get that information? LOL! Their bodies were weakening, and you will find that information in the Silmarillion I believe.

[Turgon]

Ok I messed up on reading what you wrote. Bones would have been pretty funny! My bad. ;)

Bodies weakening does make more sense but why would this happen, do the God have their own type of 'ent juice'? or are their bodies weakening because of the drain middle earth is putting on their minds.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The Elves were made to be very spiritual creatures. They were much like the Ainur in spirit. As the years went by their bodies would be cosumed by their spirits.

From the Silmarillion, Houghton Mifflin edition, 1977

Immortal were the Elves, and their wisdom waxed from age to age, and no sickness nor pestilence brought death to them. Their bodies indeed were of the stuff of Earth and could be destroyed, and in those days they were more like to the bodies of Men since they had not so long been inhabited by the fire of their spirit, which consumes them from within in the courses of time.

[claudia silver]

It doesn't matter................it was in the film...........not the book!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by claudia silver
It doesn't matter................it was in the film...........not the book! Sorry, but Feanor wasn't in the film. It matters if we are going to understand the Elves of the film, since it is Tolkien based.

[claudia silver]

Sorry, but Feanor wasn't in the film.

I was talking about Haldir not Feanor, as posted by Nilore.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by claudia silver
I was talking about Haldir not Feanor, as posted by Nilore. Yes, and Nilore is asking why Haldir was so easily killed, when Feanor was taken with so much trouble by a balrog. We are trying to answer the question. the Elves of the third age were not as durable as in ages past. Feanor is past, Haldir is Third Age. It makes a difference.

[claudia silver]

As posted by Sister Golden Hair

Sorry, but Feanor wasn't in the film

At the end of the day you are not going to get your average cinema goer to care, unlike people who have read the Sil and the full History of Middle Earth who know that that the LOTR is just a conclusion to thousands of years of history.

Maybe thats a bit harsh, perhaps people will be inspired to go and read the books, I truly hope so.

But, as much as I understand and agree with a lot of the gripes about the film version, it is just one man's interpretation and true Tolkein fans still have the books to go back to.

[Sister Golden Hair]

At the end of the day you are not going to get your average cinema goer to care,I do understand what you are saying Claudia, but it is not my intention to get movie goers to care. I am under the impression that Nilore may be aquainted with the books and the Sil, and he asked a comparative question between the Sil and the movie. Just trying to make the immortality of the Elves a bit clearer. In book or movie, they are Tolkien's Elves and are immortal in both places. It is a Tolkien inspired movie.

I think it's a little harder to keep the books out of a movie topic, than to keep the movie out of a book topic.

[claudia silver]

Yes it is all very difficult and problematic :confused:

The only answer I could give to Nilore is that Fëanor was a Noldorian (possibly the greatest) and Haldir was probably of the Sindar, in the Third Age, which would account for his diminished power/strength.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I think that it said somewhere that Feanor was THE greatest of the Noldor, in one of the Appendices, I believe.

I was about to post what you said, Claudia, only I think that Haldir was a Sylvan Elf.

BTW, in ME is it Sylvan Elf or Silvan Elf? I've forgotten. :confused:

[Artanis]

It's Silvan. And I assume Haldir was a Sinda, as he seems to have had a high position among the Lorien Elves.
Originally posted by Turgon
Bones would have been pretty funny!
Agree! :p

[Nilore]

WOW!! This thread has gone along way. Could their bodies be weakening because of disbelief?

[claudia silver]

I think that Haldir was a Sylvan Elf.

Mainly the Lorien elves were Silvan but many had Sindar origins or were Noldor survivors so you can take your pick!

[Fat middle]

Nilore:

elves wasn't fading diminishing because of disbelief. they were fading because their time was ending.

that's what LOTR is about...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

When you mention them weakening because of disbelief, is that an allusion to Peter Pan and Tinkerbell?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yes, and Nilore is asking why Haldir was so easily killed,

Becasue he got an axe in the backbone and spinal cord. With regard to Feanor and the rest of the noldor, they were reatly more powerful that the moriquedi when the nolder first came back to ME from Aman. Their spirits hade been greatly enhance by the sojurn with powers in aman and by their expieriences there. To the quedi of ME it would be like a race of Hercules/Einsteins/Merlins had sudenly dropped into the world.

JRRT in one of his later notres or musing discussing the difference between men and elves says that in origin their bodies are the same (meaning not genetic difference) That the physical diiferences (Lifespan, healing power, senses, etc) there are between them are imposed by the spirit upon the body. These take effect more the longer the spirit inhabits the body. At birth elf and human children are indistingusih able and the differences devlope as they mature in contact with the spirit. The would explain the easy interbreeding between the two races. The bodies and genetically the same race, the difference is in the spirit/soul. This also explain how the enhance spirtis of the Caliquendi make them more powerful, including in body, than the Moriquendi.

[Lefty Scaevola]

The fading of the evles is explain in JRRT's note as an absorbing of their body and physical existance by their spirit, a process with some things in common with the fading of the ringbearers. This make a neat connection with the mortal ringbearers being allowed to the imortal Elf lands to be healed of the effects of the rings.