Poor Hama and Haldir! (Do not read if you haven't seen the new film)

[zavron]

Poor Haldir and Hama!:( They weren't supposed to die in the book, Haldir gets an Orc sword in his back and Hama Gets torn to pieces by a Warg!! Why did PJ Kill them off!?!

[Lefty Scaevola]

Hama is killed in the book, before the gates of the Hornburg. We have no idea in Haldir (who is in a forward deployment) survives the four major battles (3 defending, 1 attacking) Lorien had during the war after the fellowship left it.

[elendili]

BUTCHERS how dare they kill Haldir

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I couldn't believe they killed them!
Especially Haldir!! When he came I was like he isn't meant to be here Oh Well!! Then Aragorn told him to go back and as Haldir turned round he got stabbed and i was like "I hope he survives" and then he got slashed down the back! and died!
I was very nearly in tears! :( I couldn't believe it!

[zavron]

Terrible!!

[Miranda]

God how much did I cry for Haldir! When he turned up I was like "this isn't supposed to happen but cool!" Then a few minutes later- "the fairy elf! I can't believe you just killed the fairy elf!" I was in buckets- but then again I don't think I actually stopped crying throughout the whole film! Mx

[eowyngirl14]

When the elves first showed up in Helms Deep and said they were there to honor the old alligence, I thought. The alligence is suppose to be over between men and elves. Then when Haldir is killed I started o sob and was very very mad that the elves were there in the first place!

[Millane]

YAY!!!!!!! bad girly Movie Haldir is dead... dont panic good Book Haldir is alive an well... did he die honorably fighting defending something like good ol' valiant Boromir coz it sounds to me like it was a pretty piss weak effort on his behalf...

[Elf.Freak]

it's sad seeing an elf die :(

[Millane]

not when that elf is a gay Movie Haldir:p

[zavron]

he got stabbed in the front he gets up kill some Uruk-Hai The an Uruk-hai puts a sword through his back!! I liked haldir!:( Poor Haldir!!

[Millane]

i reckon gimli should have whipped out his axe and cleaved gay Movie Haldir's head from his shoulders "dwarf breathes so urrrgghhh gurgle gurgle the pain ahhhh"
if you want to spare a thought for the elves think about Celebrian or Gil-galad....

[Nilore]

Are you anti- elf. Haldir was a great warrior and if it wasn't for him then Helms deep wouldn't have stood a chance.

Nilore

[Millane]

no way am i anti elf im pro elf all the way Gil-galad and Elladan and Ellrohir are up there with my fav carachters... i just thought he could have been protrayed better. i liked haldir in the book...
i am just talking from Haldir in the fellowship though because the movie isnt out here yet... and he was gay...

[Blackboar]

I love Haldir!!
I was just watching the movie and he was there and I'm just likehello? What are you doing here?

So I watched thinking Good old Haldir

Then I'm just likeNoooooooooooooooo *sob sob*

[Millane]

Poor Boromir

-sob,sob-

died trying to defend poor little helpless merry and pippin

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[markedel]

Oh I miss the good old human-only Helm's deep. But I must admit the statue of Helm was a nice touch. And the elvish armor was cool, if random.

[Lollypopgurl]

After I saw the movie I went back home and saw Fellowship of the Ring the Extended Version. And I stared crying with the parts with Haldir in it!:(

[Blackboar]

Thats exactly what I did:(

*sob sob*

[Millane]

And the elvish armor was cool, if random.
nah i dont know... i reckon that there helmets were crap they should have kept the ones they had in the last alliance...
there is no way i could look back at Haldir in fellowship and have any sad feelings no matter how good he is in TT... and that is crap that if it wasnt for him helms deep would have fallen... i think if you remember correctly it was Theodens charge at daybreak and the appearence of Gandalf and Erkenbrand with 1000 men and also the Huorns and Ents efforts...

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I never cry in a movie/book. But i thought the Haldir death scene was incredibly emotionally moving. It made me horribly... sad.... I can't really find the words. It made me try to remember.... Where do Elves go when they die??? They go to the Halls of Mandos, right? Can someone refresh me on what exactly happens?

And I didn't know Hama was even in the book... when did they show him getting killed in the movie? And... who was Hama, again? I think I may know but i'm not sure...

Augh I must be horrible if I have seen TTT twice and I have this many dumb questions!

[Millane]

hama was the doorwarden at the Golden Hall... he was the one that made Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Gandalf leave there weapons at the door anyways he actually died defending the gate before the hornburg... i cant remember where elves go when they died i didnt think that they went to the halls of mandos i had a feeling that no one knew except Illuvatar...
i havent seen the movie yet but he gets killed by wargs doesnt he???

[Elf Girl]

Haldir can never truly die, if that's a consolation to you.

It says in the letters:

The Elves were not subject to disease, but they could be 'slain': that is their bodies could be destroyed, of mutilated so as to be unfit to sustain life. But this did not lead naturally to 'death': they were rehabilitated and reborn and eventually recovered memory of their past: they remained 'identical'.

Letter No. 212

[Faramir Took]

I think PJ realized that he needed to kill off someone of some significance at the Battle of Helms Deep. Maybe he thought it a little unrealistic to have such long odds, and no single character of any significance even gets injured. Therefore he made Haldir the scapegoat, and had hime hacked up at Helms Deep.

My 7 yr old son cried at that part!!!

[BeardofPants]

Did anyone else laugh at the expression on Haldir's face when he died? :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Where do Elves go when they die??? They go to the Halls of Mandos, right? Can someone refresh me on what exactly happens? From the Silmarillion. Hoghton Mifflin edition 1977.

For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I always thought that when their bodies died their spirits went to the halls of mandos... but it sounds as though their bodies are revived and taken to the halls of mandos... if so then whats the point of killing them in the first place???

And what about at the dead marshes... those elves have been there thousands of years right? :(

[Elvedans]

Wow it was so incredibly saaaaad! I was really surprised to see elves at Helms Deep but i loved the uniforms and that weird march they did! I thought it was cruel to kill poor old Haldir though. The film was so emotional that i was beyond any form of crying!

[Falagar]

I have this feeling thet there will be one big slow-motion death in each of the LotR movies:

FotR-Boromir

TTT-Haldir

RotK-Theoden(?)

[Diaxion]

The only reason they died was so that the audiance could become more attached to the characters

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
I always thought that when their bodies died their spirits went to the halls of mandos... but it sounds as though their bodies are revived and taken to the halls of mandos... if so then whats the point of killing them in the first place???Their bodies do not go to Mandos, only their spirits. But they could be reincarnated, after some time and if allowed.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Then, I think they are given a new body identical to the old one, and their memories are in tact.

[Artanis]

Couldn't they also bee reincarnated as children, that is born again? Then they would discover their memories from their earlier life only gradually.
Hmmm - must repeat 'Laws and customs' :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Artanis
Couldn't they also bee reincarnated as children, that is born again? Then they would discover their memories from their earlier life only gradually.
Hmmm - must repeat 'Laws and customs' :) Yeah, I need to do some re-reading on that too. I have heard different versions, but I thought the version of them being given back their bodies fully grown was the one Tolkien settled on. I could be wrong. Have to go find Morgoth's Ring.

[Varda Oiolosseo]

When I first saw it I was completely deverstated!! The second time i saw it I knew it was coming up and was watching through my hands and it was still just as upsetting!!!

I Love Haldir!!!!

[eowyngirl14]

I saw the movie for the 3rd time yeaterday with my best friend. I cryed just as much as I did the first time when Haldir died. Hama's death wasn't a dramatic as Haldir's was. Did anyone else think that the wargs looked a lot like big hyperactive puppies that wre trying to pass off as Disney's Stitch?:confused: I still don't really understand why they were killed off. I don't think it enhanced the story in any way!

[samwise of the shire]

I have this feeling thet there will be one big slow-motion death in each of the LotR movies:
That's what I told my Mom when we walked out of the theater, though I think we might see Halbarad die in slow mo in ROTK.

If Haldir had been a man...a MORTAL who was SUPPOSED to die I couldn't have cared less whether he lived or not...but because he was an elf...a fair immortal being who wasn't supposed to die I was absolutely heart broken when he did die.

Ok here's something for you Falagar you know how Galadriel turned green in FOTR? And then we had green zombies in TTT? Doesn't is make you wonder who or what is going to turn the same color of green in ROTK?
Cheers,
Sam

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Artanis
Couldn't they also bee reincarnated as children, that is born again? Then they would discover their memories from their earlier life only gradually.

Thus was one of the possibilities JRRT was experimenting with at one point (in his note), but later he unquivicably rejected it. The last word he had on the subject was that when the elf spirit had spent the approriate time in the halls of Mandoes, in a purgatory process, the Valar would create a new doy for it to inhabit.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I presume that by doy you mean body?

[Gorhiriel]

When the Elves arrived at Helm's I was like WTF???Then when Haldir died I just burst into tears,

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

cuz its holywood..someone midly important has to die

[Varda Oiolosseo]

When the Elves came to Helms Deep I was like "what?!" but then I started cheering! i loved them there!
When Haldir died I couldn't believe it! I was so upset! :(
I've seen TTT about 6 times and each time it's just as sad!

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Varda Oiolosseo
When the Elves came to Helms Deep I was like "what?!" but then I started cheering! i loved them there!
When Haldir died I couldn't believe it! I was so upset! :(
I've seen TTT about 6 times and each time it's just as sad!

I'm seeing TTT for the 7th time on saturday night and I know I'll cry again when Haldir dies! The music is so atmospheric and it gets me everytime. I always have to make sure I take off my mascara before I see either film otherwise I look like a racoon!! Mx

[Varda Oiolosseo]

lol! I know what you mean!
It's sooo upsetting though I think it's the music as well what gets you going!

[Elvellyn]

The elves should not have been there!!! The Last Alliance was called the Last Alliance because it was the Last Alliance.

[Sylvee Estel]

Originally posted by Elvellyn
The elves should not have been there!!! The Last Alliance was called the Last Alliance because it was the Last Alliance.

Never thought of that... hmmmm...

Anyway it was extremely sad when Haldir died. He's an elf he's not supposed to die!!!!

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sylvee Estel
He's an elf he's not supposed to die!!!! That's the reason why PJ got him killed, I think. The movie audience need to know that the Elves in fact could die.

[Fimbrethil]

Yeah Elves can die we all know that(at least thouse who didn't do now). But I still want to know why Haldir!:mad: Actually at first I was kinda confused becuase I didn't get his name.Then later on it sounded like Aragorn said Celeborn but I knew that wasn't right. It wasn't until I watched it the second time that I relized who it was and I cried!:(

[Lena]

16 blue i cant belive they did that!!!!

why did they have to kill haldir i liked him... i read the books he is not supposed to die how dare pg do that... *runs around really mad*

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Elvellyn
The elves should not have been there!!! The Last Alliance was called the Last Alliance because it was the Last Alliance. Didn't Tolkien's Battle of Five Armies in the Hobbit take place AFTER the Last Alliance?!?!?!?

[Calror]

Hama di die in the book!!!!!!:confused:

[Elvellyn]

Didn't Tolkien's Battle of Five Armies in the Hobbit take place AFTER the Last Alliance?!?!?!?

Were there men in the battle of five armies? I dont remember.

Welcome Calror!!!! Yes Hama did die in the book.

[straight_face]

Originally posted by Millane
no way am i anti elf im pro elf all the way Gil-galad and Elladan and Ellrohir are up there with my fav carachters... i just thought he could have been protrayed better. i liked haldir in the book...
i am just talking from Haldir in the fellowship though because the movie isnt out here yet... and he was gay...

Oh... so now you're gonna be homophobic? Don't even get started. Ooh! Haldir's stupid because he's gay! *shudder* People who say that make me sick.

[Millane]

ohhh shut your trap wanker:p
ok then ill rephrase what i was trying to get across... Haldir in my opinion looked rather to feminine for my liking and gave off the appearence of some homosexual people...
i make you sick do i... well good hahahahaha i hope you spew your guts up please let me direct you down to the General Message forum and into the Gay/lesbian/bi thread were i stated my feelings on gays... and its people like you who make me feel sick by being so padantic over something so trivial (ohhh i bet youve never said someone looked gay before) for the sake of causing trouble... ohhh and if its trouble you want, troubles what you'll get because GoNY has made me invincible and violent :p

[Melkor's significant othe]

uh-oh.

[Elvedans]

Role up! Role up! Tickets for the Millane V Straightface fight half price! :D

[cassiopeia]

Wow, Millane calm down, I know what happened to your namesake. :D
To answer someone's question: men were in the Battle of the Five Armies, as well as wolves, orcs, dwarves and elves.

[Millane]

ahhh yes poor old millane... ill calm down soon but until then i want royalties for the selling of tickets and bets made... thats right straight_face your going down (until i have calmed down
:rolleyes: )

[Black Breathalizer]

Those of you who complained about Haldir and Hama getting killed in TTT need to realize it was essential to the story that there be at least one "important" death in each of the movies. Jackson understood the key to both boxoffice and critical success was to give his movies the same sense of realism that Tolkien gave the books. So he approached the battles he would film more like "Saving Private Ryan" than "Willow."

In FOTR, we watched Boromir die. If you were a Tolkien newbie when you watched FOTR, you also experienced the same heart-wrenching feeling that all of us book readers experienced at Gandalf's "death" the first time we read the trilogy.

In ROTK, there are some important deaths that we'll see. But TTT was different. There were no central characters from the books that would die in the second film if PJ gave us a strict interpretation of the story. So we watched Hama and Haldir die as a way of bringing home to the audience the fact that in REAL wars, people do die, including some of the "heros."

If PJ had treated TTT any differently, it would have ruined the wonderful sense of realism that he has worked so hard to create, IMHO.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
If PJ had treated TTT any differently, it would have ruined the wonderful sense of realism that he has worked so hard to create, IMHO.

No Comment. :rolleyes:

[Elvedans]

BB has a point

[Lalaith]

For all the Haldir-fans:

Haldir Lives on (http://www.petitiononline.com/Haldir03/petition.html)

[aragorn_is_mine]

I agree with the people who said Haldir helped defend Helms Deep. I thought it was great when Haldir came with his elves and they are all elegant then he sees Aragorn and Aragorn just hugs him. I was like "Awww brotherley love...sort of..they arent even brothers actually" lol, Anywho, Haldir was a great fighter and helped the men defend the walls. Peace out

[straight_face]

I didn't think the Elves at Helm's Deep were such a bad touch. I mean, in the book it accents the growth of Men and the fading of the Elves, and then you might not agree with their unexpected appearence, but at least this change isn't as crucial to the development of the film, although I'm sure Tolkien wouldn't like the idea of Haldir being killed at Helm's Deep.

[Lalaith]

I kinda liked their appearance at Helms Deep. They elven warriors looked so good and full of discipline. Really cool.

[forest_flower]

Originally posted by elendili
BUTCHERS how dare they kill Haldir


u have no idea how much i agree with u, elendili

[Lalaith]

I know it is a cold comfort, but Haldir died with pride and like a soldier. But it was still mean.

[gimli7410]

ya i was pretty pissed when he died because he is the only elf i like

[Elvedans]

I still can't bear to watch Haldir's death scene.

[eowyngirl14]

i watched Haldir's death scene for the 5th time yesterday, and I guess how I veiw it depends on my mood. becasue I was in a really good mood yeserday, and I really felt like laughing when he died. I kow it's terrible, but I really wanted to laugh!

[straight_face]

In the movie the Two Towers, Aragorn hearkened Haleth, son of Hama. Haleth is supposedly Fran Walsh's son. We don't know if Hama ever had children, so is it safe to say that something was going on between Hama and Fran Walsh???:D :rolleyes:

[eowyngirl14]

isn't Vigo's son suppost ot be i the movie at some places?

[straight_face]

ViGgO's SoN wAs BeHiNd HaLeTh If YoU nOtIcEd. YoU'd HaVe To WaTcH vErY cLoSeLy. ThErE's OnLy A gLiMpSe.

[eowyngirl14]

hhmmmm.... will have to see it again... is he hot? has anyone seen him? I really hope he is good looking.

So- he is behind the kid with the really high pitched voice who says he is teh son of Hama? okay got that!

[Lalaith]

The cutest children in TTT (and the felloship) are those of Peter Jackson.

Okay, back to topic ... sorry

[Gamigar]

I thought Haldir got an axe in his back:confused:

[Lalaith]

I thought an arrow hit him. Hhhmmm. Could be wrong.

[TheRingIsMine]

i'm pretty sure that there was an axe in the back, but he got wounded multiple times before he died. why is aragorn always around when someone is dying?

*off topic* viggo's son isn't hot. :(

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by straight_face
In the movie the Two Towers, Aragorn hearkened Haleth, son of Hama. Haleth is supposedly Fran Walsh's son. We don't know if Hama ever had children, so is it safe to say that something was going on between Hama and Fran Walsh???:D :rolleyes: Who's Fran Walsh?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I believe she's PJ's co-screenwriter/girlfriend/wife.

[Lalaith]

Who's Fran Walsh?
You don't know Fran Walsh! What a crime!

I believe she's PJ's co-screenwriter/girlfriend/wife.
I think she's his wife. And the mother of his children (his cute children).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Who's the mother of the ugly ones? :p

[Lalaith]

There were actually no ugly ones. I realized already in the cinema, that I have never seen a movie before, where only cute beautiful children are acting. You know, the blonde little girl.

[azalea]

...but I don't think Peter and Fran are actually married.

[Lalaith]

Okay, I looked it up at IMDB.com

Spouse
Frances Walsh (1987 - present) 2 children

From that I guess she was his wife.

He always write his scripts with his real life partner Frances Walsh.

But that sounds more like a girlfriend. Gotta do some more research.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Wow, they've been together/married since I was 2!

[Lalaith]

Actually they are married. Or all the internet sites are wrong.

Wow, they've been together/married since I was 2!
I just noticed that you are only a little bit older than I.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Wow, and Wayfarer is 4 days younger than me! We're all right in a row! :D

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Okay, I looked it up at IMDB.com

Spouse
Frances Walsh (1987 - present) 2 children

From that I guess she was his wife.

He always write his scripts with his real life partner Frances Walsh.

But that sounds more like a girlfriend. Gotta do some more research.

Spouse = married. So that answers my question!

[Pippin's_mushrooms]

i don't love Haldir but i think that he deserved to live. :confused: why does Peter Jackson make all these people die?

[Pippin's_mushrooms]

i mean poor Haldir! PJ makes all the cool people like Boromir die!!!(well he's supposed to die) Haldir isn't really cool but he doesn't deserve to die! im not saying he's bad. it's just i think he's not that cool

[azalea]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Actually they are married. Or all the internet sites are wrong.



Oh, okay. I just got the impression from here and there that they were "life partners" but not actually married. I stand corrected.:)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Same here. :)

[Lalaith]

Spouse actually meant for me that they are married and in the German translation it was translated with verheiratet mit (married with).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Alas! Poor Haldir. :( (http://www.angelfire.com/clone/carbon/AIM/runhaldirrun.gif)

Again, compliments of Ninquelote. Genius. :D

[Ninquelote]

Thankee! :)

Hey, I thought Haldir was supposed to be one of the Elves that stayed in Lorien, even after the Grey Ships departed...

Oy. I don't get why they went to Helm's Deep. "Honour the alliance they once had with men"?! That was with the MEN OF GONDOR, NOT ROHAN! NOT ROHAN!!!!!!

That reminds me of a poem!

"Rohan's horses, strong and fair
Where mearas dwelt in times of old
They wander eastmark with no care
but still you travel, your heart cold."
Well, it's one stanza. It actually doesn't portray how I feel, but I wrote it, and that's what matters!

Stupid Peter Jackson... Giving Haldir ADD...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Nice poem. :) In general literature, there's a poetry thread; you might want to post it there, too. :D

[Ninquelote]

AND IT'S THE BATTLE OF THE HORNBURG!!

I want to see Helm Hammerhand kick Peter Jackson!