TTT extended Edition

[FoolofaTook]

Will there be a TT extended edition or not? I'm not sure. There were some scenes that were left out/changed in the movie, but is there really enough to make an extended edition?:confused:

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by FoolofaTook
Will there be a TT extended edition or not?

Yep. It came from PJ himself.:)

[Khamûl]

I think that TTT would benefit greatly from an extended edition. I think the Merry/Pippen/Treebeard storyline could use more scenes.

[Smaug]

"You speak evil of that which is fair beyond the reach of your thought, and only little wit can excuse you" had better be in TTT:EE :)

[IronParrot]

What will be interesting to see is if the Extended Editions will have a continuity of their own... for example, since FOTR Extended shows Gimli falling for Galadriel, perhaps TTT Extended will indeed have the line Smaug pointed out. Don't think that scene really needs it, though, the way it's already paced.

I agree that the Merry/Pippin storyline is the one that needs the most added time. But I think what the film of TTT really highlights is that they're actually barely in the thing, even in the book. It's just that their whole adventure with Treebeard takes longer in the book... it will be interesting to see if they drink Ent-draughts at all in the Extended TTT, and if they'll indeed be taller than Frodo and Sam in ROTK.

[olsonm]

Originally posted by IronParrot
it will be interesting to see if they drink Ent-draughts at all in the Extended TTT, and if they'll indeed be taller than Frodo and Sam in ROTK. Dom and Billy claim that it will be in there. :cool:

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I hope they show more of the Ents, Merry and Pippin and Faramir!
:D

[Warrior]

i have also heard that there will be the poem about the races of middle-earth recited by treebeard when he first learns of hobbits from merry and pippen....id like to see that. and i too have heard that the ent-draughts will in it.

[Noahamir]

Peter Jackson said in a interview that the Ent-Draughts would be in the Extended Version. This would explain how Merry's forehead cut just magically disapeared in the movie.

Some scenes that I think should be in the Extended Version that were missing from theatrical version!

1.) More scenes showing Gandalf and Balrog fighting on the Endless Stairs to reach top of mountain instead of just suddenly appearing there.

2.) Frodo and Sam using Elven rope to climb down the cliff and that the rope magically let go at the top. (Sean Astin mention filming this in an interview!)

3.) I know they filmed a scene of Legolas collecting arrows from Fallen orcs at Amon Hen before the hunt started.

4.) Sam examining Southernor who fell of Oliphant more closely. (It felt like they clipped that scene in movie shorter.)

5.) A scene letting The Three Hunters know that Merry & Pippen are ok. Instead of them just suddenly forgetting about the hobbits they have been tracking for days.

Those are just five off the top of my head. I will post again if I think of more.

[Diaxion]

of course, how else will they make more money

[Elf.Freak]

yay!:D

i noticed that in TTT:despite the theatrical trailer, Arwen does not say to Elrond "you have the gift of foresight, tell me what you have seen" which i would've liked to have seen.

[SamwiseGamgeeOTS]

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/381/381227p1.html

There's some info about what's goin on so far.......hope this helps some people.:)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

*crosses fingers*

HuornsGoodFaramirShelobGandalfatOrthanc, HuornsGoodFaramirShelobGandalfatOrthanc...

*looks at link*

Curses! Foiled again! ;)

[Blackboar]

Didn't seem to metiont the entwives:(

[SamwiseGamgeeOTS]

yeah. some of it makes me sad too. maybe we'll have better luck in ROTK!:rolleyes:

[samwise of the shire]

Didn't seem to metiont the entwives Umm Blackboar. The Entwives aren't even IN TTT. Yeah Treebeard mentions them in the book, but I dont think that overgrown brocolli plant that was meant to be Treebeard in the movie would mention his spouse.
Besides if they took out Tom Bombadil, mauled Treebeard, and turned the Dead Marshes into a nuclear waste dump I dont think they would have any qualms about taking out characters (or mauling them) that aren't even IN the story. Dont feel bad. I wish they'd put at least ONE song into a movie. Stupid idiots.
Cheers,
Sam

[Blackboar]

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
Umm Blackboar. The Entwives aren't even IN TTT. Yeah Treebeard mentions them in the book, but I dont think that overgrown brocolli plant that was meant to be Treebeard in the movie would mention his spouse.
Besides if they took out Tom Bombadil, mauled Treebeard, and turned the Dead Marshes into a nuclear waste dump I dont think they would have any qualms about taking out characters (or mauling them) that aren't even IN the story. Dont feel bad. I wish they'd put at least ONE song into a movie. Stupid idiots.
Cheers,
Sam

I meant I thought Treebeard would MENTION them in the extended version, I heard Peter Jackson had done about the entwives, but cut the scene out for the extended version.

[Aranwe]

HuornsGoodFaramirShelobGandalfatOrthanc

Shelob is at the start of ROTK in the movies, don't worry about that :p

It actually sort of makes sence... ROTK has all the appendices at the back of it, so while the book is physically the same size as the FOTR book it's a much shorter story.

Moving Shelob to ROTK will make them all roughly equal in length.

[azalea]

I merged the thread about the posted link into the existing thread about TTT EE.

[Sween]

I hope they have more of aragorns character development in this one.

The ents are the weekest link and need to be helped out

[Balrog_of_Morgoth]

What I hope to see among the things already mentioned are:

Gandalf and Balrog on Endless Stair

Eagle taking Gandalf from the peak to Lothlorien

Gandalf hunting and finding Eomer, and their trip to Helms Deep. Eomer and Gandalf both needed more screen time IMO.




Arwen reforging Narsil with her own hands and stealing Elrond's ring while he sleeps, then killing all nine Nazgul....:-)

[Lelondul]

yeah cool! And along with expanding Merry & Pippin's story, add the free people's confrontation w/Saruman at Orthanc as well. Then let's hope they'll remove Aragorn's 'first death', and have Faramir's personality do a 180!

Heck, it wouldn't even have to be that 'extended' if the bad parts were removed!

[Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood]

I would really like to know if they wait and release it after the regular film like they did with FotR. When does it come out?

[azalea]

The earliest I've heard is June 30th will be the release of the theatrical version, but that's hearsay. You can bet your life that they won't release the EE for about 4 months after the release of the theatrical, because they of course want to earn as much money as they can!

[gandalfstormcrow]

HuornsGoodFaramirShelobGandalfatOrthanc,
The Gandalf at Orthanc is in ROTK.

One scene I noticed was on the trailers and not in the film was a shot of Legolas in armor and was pulling out two swords from his back.

[azalea]

Here's the official thread discussing the TT EE. I recommend anyone who's interested read the link posted on the previous page -- it has some interesting speculations.

[Gerbil]

I am 100% certain that the reforging of Narsil won't be in TTT:EE.
Why not?
Because leaving it out makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like in FotR them leaving out Galadriel's gift to Frodo (the only bit from gift-giving to make it into TE).
IE it means narsil appearing magically on RotK won't make any sense at all.
Therefore I'm certain that reforging will be in RotK - possibly right at the end when Aragorn potentially goes 1 on 1 with Sauron or some other PJ weak 'adaptation' battle finale.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
Umm Blackboar. The Entwives aren't even IN TTT. Yeah Treebeard mentions them in the book, but I dont think that overgrown brocolli plant that was meant to be Treebeard in the movie would mention his spouse.
Besides if they took out Tom Bombadil, mauled Treebeard, and turned the Dead Marshes into a nuclear waste dump I dont think they would have any qualms about taking out characters (or mauling them) that aren't even IN the story. Dont feel bad. I wish they'd put at least ONE song into a movie. Stupid idiots.
Cheers,
Sam

it appeared in a certain news article that i stood up right in the middle of the opera and proclaimed my love for her and said i would write my greatest symphony for her, i did both, i said neither.
- french composer hector berlioz (1809-1863)

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood
I would really like to know if they wait and release it after the regular film like they did with FotR. When does it come out?

i think peter jackson has so far done an excellent job, the two towers was more than a little messed around with, especially aragorn for some reason falling off a cliff just so he can kiss arwen in his dreams and see orcs. lets see, eowyn was okay but she seemed a little more weak than she was in the book, faramir was a jerk! he is not supposed to find out the hobbits even had the ring until it was to late for him to stop them, and even then he only half guessed, otherwise as far as the way he was portrayed he was done pretty well. the ents were fine, so what if treebeard didnt mention entwives? the movie isnt going to have them in it anyway, i mean you already know they exist in the book, its not like people who are new to lotr are going to complain, because they dont know they exist. gollum was superb!,maybe they made him a little to funny, but thats okay. i wasnt completely for helms deep taking up half the movie, but a lot of things had to happen, the elves coming to help men in battle( i dont remember that in the book) .
-hectorberlioz

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
the elves coming to help men in battle( i dont remember that in the book) .
-hectorberlioz

That's probably because it didn't happen. ;) You (don't) remember correctly. :D

[cassiopeia]

Extended edition spoilers! Check this out (scroll halfway down the page): http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=15741

Ent Droughts! Sam and Frodo using the elven rope! The introduction of Denethor! Huorns! Merry and Pippin finding pipeweed! Should be a big improvement. I can't wait till it's released.

[Nimrodel_White_Lady]

I really did wish that they had added the Huorns to the Battle of the Hornburg, that would have been really cool! Also, that was horrible about what they did to Haldir! :( I mean, what was P.J thinking?

P.S. Im new to Entmoot!

~Lessien Nimrodel

[Snowdog]

Hello and welcome to Entmoot Nimrodel!

I think PJ tried to have the 'dramatic death' formula that workes so well with Boromir in Fellowship, with Haldir in TT. So the Return of the King will have the death of Halbarad? No, the dramatic death will be Theoden.

Hopefully the extended DVD will redeem some of the shortcomings of TT, and I will buy it in November no matter. I will only rent the theatrical version when it comes out.

[Nimrodel_White_Lady]

*Waves* Heya! Well, Im going to buy the one in August, and then the one in November and claim it as my own lol

~Lessien Nimrodel

[Rían]

I did a half-hearted search for this, but I thought I would risk the wrath of Azalea and Crickhollow for duplicate-threading and just come out and ask - does anyone know when the extended version of TT is coming out? I saw some previews of it, and it looks like the new stuff is good!

[Artanis]

I'll get mine on the release date 18th of Nov. :cool:

[jerseydevil]

RÃ*an -

According to Aamzon.com the
Two Towers Extended Edition (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009TB5G/qid=1067240623/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5968029-1369736?v=glance&s=dvd) is coming out November 18th. There will also be the Two Towers Collectors Edition (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000A36J5/qid=1067240623/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-5968029-1369736?v=glance&s=dvd) which will come out at the same time.

Oh well - Artanis cross posted and her's won. :D

[azalea]

I am seldom wrathful, Rian, don't worry.:)
I merged your thread into the "official" thread about the TTEE. Might as well bring it up anyway, as people will probably want to discuss it again, since the release is only three weeks away. (Yay!):cool:

[Rían]

Thankee, ladies and gentleman :)

I know where I"ll be on Nov 18th :)

[Elfhelm]

I don't know which Extended Edition thread to discuss this in. Spoilers are out already. It appears the aftermath of the Battle of the Fords of Isen may be shown, and maybe we will meet Elfhelm, eh?

[Elvengirl]

There are a few new clips on www.lordoftherings.com that are on the TT EE. If anyones is interested.

Did you know the sound of the fellbeast is actually the sound of a donkey? I couldn't believe it. I don't know that I'll think of them as frightening or formidable ever again :D

[Elvengirl]

There's a new clip.
Fran Walsh says Treebeard is give some of Tom Bombadill's lines.
AND does it look like Old Man Willow makes a cameo appearance?

What do ya think of that?

[zinnite]

Originally posted by Elvengirl
There's a new clip.
Fran Walsh says Treebeard is give some of Tom Bombadill's lines.
AND does it look like Old Man Willow makes a cameo appearance?

What do ya think of that?
Too little, too late...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvengirl
What do ya think of that?
I wouldn't be surprised if Jackson just threw that in afterward as a way of appeasing some of the Tokien fans complaints.

As zinnite said "Too little, too late..."

[Arathorn]

YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

My copy just arrived!

Going home now to watch!

:D :D :D :D :D

[Lizra]

Wow! Early.... You lucky guy! ;)

[Elvengirl]

I'm going to wait until I see the extended in theaters, before deciding if I'm going to buy it.

Arathorn lets us know what you think. :)

[azalea]

Where did you order it from that you got it so early?:(

[Valandil]

YEE-ah! How did he...

Say... you a friend of JACKSON??? :eek:

[EDIT: or should we ALL have had the Filipino Postal Service handling our orders???]

Happy viewing, eh! :D

[Arathorn]

I have to protect my sources but here in the philippines, there are importers who sell through sms (phone text) and their shipments arrived about 2 weeks ago and got approved last week through customs. The gift set won't be due til monday, though.

Without giving out any spoilers on the main feature, I'd say I enjoyed it but had a lot more fun watching the documentaries because ot the new info.

So far from what I've viewed, they got their facts right on those docs but might have had to struggle with what to show on the films. Stuff like the title The Two Towers not really being any particular towers since JRRT kept changing his mind. Gollum gets his own full-length doc too.

The MTV easter egg is as easy to spot as the one from EE FOTR but I was sort of disappointed at not being able to find a ROTK trailer one if it exists.

I have to go to sleep now as its 5:35 in the morning and I've been watching since 10 last night. I was so anxious the whole day since many of my friends at our local tolkien society were calling in to say that they got theirs earlier but I eventually ot my copy at 6PM.

Anyway, bye for now...:)

[Arathorn]

BTW, in the appendices, they discussed a bit about how hey initially thought of adding Arwen Warrior Princess but later changed their mind. They also showed actual scenes there with Liv fighting. Good thing they didn't add it in the actual extended feature.

[cassiopeia]

I've got the TTT EE DVD! The guy at the shop sold it to me a day early! All you have to do is ask.

The movie, in my opinion, is marginally better. Mainly because of the extra scenes with Sam and Frodo, which were desperately lacking in the theatrical version, since they are the heroes of the story. I have to say I liked the FOTR much more than TTT, so I wasn't expecting to be overwhelmed by the EE. Many of the new scenes were good. I don't know. I just thought it deviated too much from the book for my liking. Not that I expect it to be the book word-for-word. Just more Tolkien-like. Having said all that, TTT is my second favourite movie of all, after the FOTR.

There's a nice scene at the beginning where Sam and Frodo use the elvish rope to climb down the cliff. Lots of extra Merry and Pippin. The ent draught scene. Totally and utterly ruined. You'll know what I mean when you see it. Involves much chasing and silliness. A homage to Old Man Willow in there too. The scene where they find the spoils of Isengard is silly as well. I'm glad PJ cut them out. Somehow PJ has it in his mind that Merry and Pippin are idiots. Probably why he cut the scouring of the Shire. There was a scene with Faramir, Boromir and Denethor enjoying victory at Osgiliath. Was okay, good it was cut though. One thing that annoyed me was that Denethor sent Boromir to Rivendell to get the Ring. In the book he went because of Faramir's dream. Can't have everything I suppose. There was more of Gimli's comic relief. Who wants to bet there will be a dwarf tossing joke in the ROTK? There's a scene where Eowyn cooks Aragorn some soupy thing and Aragorn almost retches eating it. Seriously, does every scene have to have a joke in it?

I think JD's going to have a lot to say after viewing TTT EE. :D

[Millane]

ohhh same i went into myers and the bloke there said they were sitting out and he grabbed mine:D YAY!!!
the gollum statue is nowhere near as cool as the Argonath.
Pippin's dream in the start of the ent draught scene was really great i though very hobbitish to dream of smoking a barrel of pipe-weed :D
ooooooh still only half way through though... cant wait till we hit boromir:p

[viggosbeard]

just to let any Brits know - I just bought TTT EE at ASDA in Deeside, there was no advert, they were just putting them on the shelves and I swooped in like an avenging Ringwraith - " now I have you precious"- so its home from work early and get stuck in I suppose - as well as watching highlights from the rugby of course !Bring on the Aussies!!!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I think JD's going to have a lot to say after viewing TTT EE. :D
From your description I most likely will. It doesn't surprise me that Jackson STILL treats Pippin and Merry as a bunch of idiots. I'll have to see it though before stating my views.

[Elfhelm]

Originally posted by Arathorn
BTW, in the appendices, they discussed a bit about how hey initially thought of adding Arwen Warrior Princess but later changed their mind. They also showed actual scenes there with Liv fighting. Good thing they didn't add it in the actual extended feature.

They might as well have, since they changed so many other things.

[Rían]

Oh, fun for you, Cass! But I was really hoping for some good added scenes, like in FotR, and it sounds like many of the added scenes are silly comic ones. It looks like PJ totally misses the reason why Merry and Pippin's humor works in the books - as Merry says, "But it is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place." PJ has the light words, but not the depth, of the hobbits. :(

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Oh, fun for you, Cass! But I was really hoping for some good added scenes, like in FotR, and it sounds like many of the added scenes are silly comic ones. It looks like PJ totally misses the reason why Merry and Pippin's humor works in the books - as Merry says, "But it is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place." PJ has the light words, but not the depth, of the hobbits. :(
He doesn't even have the light words - he has brainless buffoons. :rolleyes:

[azalea]

I'm going to go over to the store and try to get mine today, too, since it sounds like everyone's already putting them out!

[Millane]

hhahaha i watched them talking about including Arwen in the fight scenes but they said there was an uproar on the internet, i stuck up for her at the time but im glad she wasnt fighting, looked shocking:eek: and she said she cried because people called her xena, hahahahahahaha :D
hmmm i like that there was a Boromir flashback but it screwed around with the story a bit too much for my liking, it seemed as if Jackson was trying to repreive Boromir as much as he could by laying the blame all on his dad...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Millane
hhahaha i watched them talking about including Arwen in the fight scenes but they said there was an uproar on the internet, i stuck up for her at the time but im glad she wasnt fighting, looked shocking:eek: and she said she cried because people called her xena, hahahahahahaha :D
Did they really mention my Xena reference? I have called her Xena-elf since FotR came out. :) I'm sure by "she" you mean Liv Tyler cried - not Arwen. :) Do they really mention this on the DVD stuff on the DVD about how they took out her fighting because of the backlash on the net?

[cassiopeia]

Don't let my review spoil everything! The Frodo, Sam and Gollum scenes were good for the most part. I've managed to check out the Tolkien documentary on disc 3, which is brilliant. Of course it is, because it has Tom Shippey and others talking about Tolkien and the book. :) Very interesting.

I haven't seen the Xena-Arwen part yet. Maybe we do have power here on the net! :)

[Rían]

I still plan to get the DVD first thing tomorrow - the Tolkien lover in me enjoys the parts that are "right" to me, and ignores the rest :) And I'm one of those people that enjoy the behind-the-scenes stuff, and I got a kick out of the actors' commentary, esp. the silly stuff that showed they didn't know the book!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
... I got a kick out of the actors' commentary, esp. the silly stuff that showed they didn't know the book!
That just proves that Jackson fed us a line. He stated that all the actors had to read the book. Of course I already knew they hadn't since Elijah stated that he hasn't read the book. :rolleyes:

[claudia silver]

I got it :D

Extra scenes include:

Elven rope
The Burning of Westfold
The Banishment of Eomer
The Song of the Entwives
Ent Draft
The Glittering Caves
Flotsam and Jetsam

::rushing to watch it::

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I haven't seen the Xena-Arwen part yet. Maybe we do have power here on the net! :) No doubt that we have power. I have a habit of viewing Who's Online when nothing else is going on. Since I'm an admin, Who's Online shows IP addresses as well as the usual stuff.

Here's the cool part: sometime last year, this one IP caught my attention. It was "morannon.wetafx.co.nz" and they were viewing the thread called "Peter Jackson has improved Tolkien". Then I got to thinking and realized that WetaFX is Peter Jackson's special effects department, the .co.nz shows that they're from New Zealand, and then the LotR reference with Morannon was too much. Since we're one of the premier Tolkien boards on the web, I don't doubt that they dropped in to see what we have to say.

[Sween]

a much better version of the movie :D !

Loved some of the new sceans :D

[cassiopeia]

Hey, that's cool Khamul! I don't doubt that somebody involved in the movie would have stumbled upon Entmoot. Maybe even Peter Jackson himself! :eek:

I've mangaged a look at the documentaries on disc three. It shows some sequences of Arwen at Helm's Deep (shudder). It is explained that they couldn't have an Arwen/Aragorn romance when they are miles apart. So they thought they'd haul Arwen up to Helm's Deep and have her involved in the action. They claim they decided in the end that the flashback sequences were enough to show Arwen and Aragorn's romance. The rumours on the net were mentioned, but I don't think they influenced their decision.

They also explain Faramir's change in character. They say Faramir needed to go on a journey -- like Frodo and Boromir. Phillipa Boyens says that since the Ring is destroying Frodo, it would be an insult for Faramir to not be taken by the Ring. I just hope Merry and Pippin go on a big journey in the next movie.

It also is explained why Shelob wasn't in TTT: if you check the timeline in the LOTR, you'll see Frodo is attacked by Shelob when Minas Tirith is under siege; and that the Helm's Deep battle and Shelob would 'cancel each other out', lessening the emotional impact.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
Hey, that's cool Khamul! I don't doubt that somebody involved in the movie would have stumbled upon Entmoot. Maybe even Peter Jackson himself! :eek:

I've mangaged a look at the documentaries on disc three. It shows some sequences of Arwen at Helm's Deep (shudder). It is explained that they couldn't have an Arwen/Aragorn romance when they are miles apart. So they thought they'd haul Arwen up to Helm's Deep and have her involved in the action. They claim they decided in the end that the flashback sequences were enough to show Arwen and Aragorn's romance. The rumours on the net were mentioned, but I don't think they influenced their decision.

No - instead there sending her down to Gondor to bring Aragorn his sword - then there will be a huge cat fight between her an Eowyn. :rolleyes:

They also explain Faramir's change in character. They say Faramir needed to go on a journey -- like Frodo and Boromir. Phillipa Boyens says that since the Ring is destroying Frodo, it would be an insult for Faramir to not be taken by the Ring. I just hope Merry and Pippin go on a big journey in the next movie.

They didn't NEED to do that at all. They just wanted more action and more conflict.

It also is explained why Shelob wasn't in TTT: if you check the timeline in the LOTR, you'll see Frodo is attacked by Shelob when Minas Tirith is under siege; and that the Helm's Deep battle and Shelob would 'cancel each other out', lessening the emotional impact.
I don't think that it would have cancelled each other out. Does that mean they won't have the Battle of Pelenor Fields or what about at the Black Gate. The destruction of the Ring and the Black Gate might cancel each other out. :rolleyes:

It's funny with how much jackson changed he's worried about the timeline and where Shelob fell into the story when he gave us that ridiculous Flight to the Ford scene. :rolleyes: To me it would have been great to leave off with Sam thinking Frodo was dead (you KNOW the MAIN character) - but then Jackson would have had to have shortened Helms Deep. In my opinion that is the ONLY reason why Shelob wasn't shown - because he didn't want to take away from his precious battle sequence for Helms Deep.

[BeardofPants]

Wow, I didn't even realise it was out until I saw it accidentally at Whitcoulles today... Needless to say, I didn't need any encouragement to buy it, but I'm probably not going to watch it until tomorrow, since I'm feeling a bit crap right now. Woe, me.

Originally posted by cassiopeia
Hey, that's cool Khamul! I don't doubt that somebody involved in the movie would have stumbled upon Entmoot. Maybe even Peter Jackson himself! :eek: Hey, if my BF can stumble over him at Real Groovy records, then why not Entmoot? ;)

[Tuor of Gondolin]

The extended dvd is significantly better, it's largely book materialish, although there's a continuation of PJ, PB aggravating habit of changing speakers, situations, etc., frequently for no good reason. (ex. Merry and Pippin drink entdraughts against the advice of Treebeard).
And on disc three in a section called "book to screen" they, probably in response to criticism, try to justify Faramir's character alteration. It seems to generally come down to a conclusion that they know better then JRRT.

[Dúnedain]

Just to comment on the Osgiliath thing. I wasn't a big fan of them bringing Frodo and company to Osgiliath, but looking at it from a different perspective, it makes sense in the following respect. The fact that Frodo, Sam and Gollum's route was leading them down in that direction to go through Minas Morgul. Now, considering the fact that Faramir and company were needed at Osgiliath then, for them to bring them there issued their safety. Yes, yes I know the parting was much nicer in the book and Faramir was more noble than his father and brother in the respect of doing what is right, however the book does lend us the fact that Faramir wants approval from his father. The movie sets that up nicely, unfortunately making Faramir look bad, but as I've always said about the way he was portrayed in the movie, the ultimate piece of him that we see, IS that noble Faramir we know and enjoy.

So, ultimately, that move in the movie makes sense by the fact that their paths led near the same end, being that Frodo was going to Minas Morgul which is basically next to Osgiliath. So from that perspective I can understand the motive, of course that is done looking back and knowing the geography of things. I do wish we didn't see Faramir in that light, but in the end he more than makes up for it and I am sure he will carry on to be the Faramir we know and love in his portrayal in RotK...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
So, ultimately, that move in the movie makes sense by the fact that their paths led near the same end, being that Frodo was going to Minas Morgul which is basically next to Osgiliath. So from that perspective I can understand the motive, of course that is done looking back and knowing the geography of things. I do wish we didn't see Faramir in that light, but in the end he more than makes up for it and I am sure he will carry on to be the Faramir we know and love in his portrayal in RotK...
i would not call them next to each other. That is like saying that if I'm in Cape May NJ (souther tip of NJ) - I can be dragged up to NY because I was going to Philadelphia anyway.

I don't think it works - I think jackson wanted more conflict.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
i would not call them next to each other. That is like saying that if I'm in Cape May NJ (souther tip of NJ) - I can be dragged up to NY because I was going to Philadelphia anyway.

I don't think it works - I think jackson wanted more conflict.


First of all I said "basically next to each other" which in the realm of Middle Earth, according to the maps they are near to each other. I would consider Minas Tirith (not counting the outer wall) next to Osgiliath as well, yet they are not exactly next to each other. In looking at the maps, Minas Morgul in respect to Minas Tirith, is just a little bit further from Osgiliath than Minas Tirith is. So in that respect they are "basically next to each other".

As far as your analogy of Cape May and Philadelphia, that is just ridiculous, cuz that is practically the whole state of New Jersey between the two places. From Osgiliath to Minas Morgul it is more like Newark to New York City, if that far...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
First of all I said "basically next to each other" which in the realm of Middle Earth, according to the maps they are near to each other. I would consider Minas Tirith (not counting the outer wall) next to Osgiliath as well, yet they are not exactly next to each other. In looking at the maps, Minas Morgul in respect to Minas Tirith, is just a little bit further from Osgiliath than Minas Tirith is. So in that respect they are "basically next to each other".

I don't see any reason for Faramir dragging Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath.

As far as your analogy of Cape May and Philadelphia, that is just ridiculous, cuz that is practically the whole state of New Jersey between the two places. From Osgiliath to Minas Morgul it is more like Newark to New York City, if that far...
I disagree that Osgiliath and Minas Morgul are really that close.I'll give you that they are closer than the analogy I gave. But Newark and NY are less than 10 miles apart. Between Minas Morgul and Osgiliath it is 30 miles. On foot that is a big distance.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I disagree that Osgiliath and Minas Morgul are really that close.I'll give you that they are closer than the analogy I gave. But Newark and NY are less than 10 miles apart. Between Minas Morgul and Osgiliath it is 30 miles. On foot that is a big distance.

At least you can admit that about your analogy :D

How do you know it's 30 miles? But even if it is 30 miles, that is still relatively close in relation to other things in ME...ya know? It's still "basically next to each other" :p

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
How do you know it's 30 miles? But even if it is 30 miles, that is still relatively close in relation to other things in ME...ya know? It's still "basically next to each other" :p
Becuase on the map I have has a scale. I took a piece of paper - marked where Osgiliath is and Minas Morgul and compared it to the scale.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Becuase on the map I have has a scale. I took a piece of paper - marked where Osgiliath is and Minas Morgul and compared it to the scale.

Oh duh I didn't look at that on my map, lol. Ok I just ran the scale as well.

From Osgiliath to Minas Morgul (on the map from the middle of each site) = 24-25 miles

From Osgiliath to Minas Tirith (middle of each site, Minas Tirith is measure from the block for the city itself, not the outer wall) = 18-19 miles

:D

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Oh duh I didn't look at that on my map, lol. Ok I just ran the scale as well.

From Osgiliath to Minas Morgul (on the map from the middle of each site) = 24-25 miles

From Osgiliath to Minas Tirith (middle of each site, Minas Tirith is measure from the block for the city itself, not the outer wall) = 18-19 miles

:D
Well the road isn't straight though. And the land would be hilly - if not mountainous in some areas. But I'll give you 25 miles. I still think it is stupid for Faramir to drag Frodo to Osgiliath. I especially hate the fact that Frodo is two feet in front of the Nazgul, holding out the Ring and the damn thing just flies off like that.

[Sween]

One thing i think is very imporant to mention is no matter what anyone thinks of the changes made to the books etc and for good or bad anyone that has watched the extras cannot help but be moved by how much these people care and how hard they worked to do this. I dont think anyone would go to so much trouble if they didnt love tolkien or take great pride in there art and in what they were trying to do which is bring this worold to life and if only for that reason i think the proff would allmost aprove of the movies.

Richard Taylor does have a really anoying voice though :p

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Khamûl
Here's the cool part: sometime last year, this one IP caught my attention. It was "morannon.wetafx.co.nz" and they were viewing the thread called "Peter Jackson has improved Tolkien". It's nice to know that PJ enjoys reading profound and insightful board commentary about his films. :)

[Dúnedain]

I think I found a mistake on one of the maps. In the scene when Faramir is discussing the movements of Saruon's Army and Saruman's Army (chapter 40 on the DVD), they are looking at a map. You can see it in two spots, the very beginning of the scene when they put the map on the table and when the camera pans from Rohan to Gondor, you also see on the map, Emyn Muil, The Dead Marshes and "DagorlaNd". It should say Dagorlad and not DagorlaNd...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
It's nice to know that PJ enjoys reading profound and insightful board commentary about his films. :)
It's even nicer to know that we the outspoken "purist" have him rethinking and having to defend his decisions. If everyone was lik you - he would have had Arwen at Helms Deep. :rolleyes:

[azalea]

I really got the feeling watching the commentary that they had seen Entmoot. I don't go to any other boards, but some of the things they said felt like they were directly addressing some things that have been said here (I know similar things are said on other boards, but it was too close to not at least think they'd seen and read stuff on here). Some of the things include the use of the word "purist," references to things we've complained about. I think they probably visited many boards, but I think ours must have been among them. Plus, the way PJ says "Entmoot" when they come to that scene. It's probably just wishful thinking on my part, but it's fun to think what we say has a little influence on what they say or think about things. Who knows?:D

My comments on the EE: Many of the added scenes I felt were unnecessary and I could see why they were left out, but then again, it was hard to see why some weren't just left in since they added only a second or two to the time ("I am Saruman, at least Saruman as he should have been"). Other stuff was great to see (I liked the Old Man Willow part), but it all still felt so rushed, even for this part of the story. I know editing this movie was very difficult, but I still felt they could have made it seem less choppy. One thing I think modern filmmakers do to keep the audience's attention is to constantly cut back and forth between characters talking, and not linger more than a few seconds on any one shot. But that is unnecessary when you have a good story and this level of quality in terms of energy being put into making the film. I think letting the camera linger a little more would have done a lot to lessen the choppy feel, esp. since it's already cutting between three storylines.
I felt the FotR EE was better, but then again, I thought that movie was better. What gave me a better feeling about it was when I watched it w/ the directors' commentary...

My thoughts on the commentary: I found it somewhat humorous because a lot of the last hour of the commentary felt like their apology for some of the major changes we didn't like, esp. Faramir (my big peeve). Phillipa in particular kept saying "If we had had more time, we definately might have taken his storyline in a diff. direction," etc. She implied that they realized too late (yeah, like after the movie came out and they saw the outrage on the net;) ) that his character was too great a departure from the book, but by then they'd already shot everything, and it was too late to change it. They did as someone mentioned above say that they had to make resisting the Ring difficult for him because it would "kill" the Ring if he resisted it so easily. My reply to this would be if they had even mentioned Faramir's close relationship with Gandalf it would be easily explained in that he knew ahead of time from working with Gandalf that the Ring could not be ultimately used for good purposes. This could have been accomplished with a little dialog, perhaps even showing him at some point (either in FotR or as a flashback in TTT) with Gandalf in the room in Gondor going over the old docs. Furthermore, Denethor could have mentioned it in the flashback we see in this EE (I do think that scene was well done, if misplaced -- in Osgiliath rather than Minas Tirith. It was nice to see Sean Bean again).
Another thing that they talked about was the elves coming to Helm's Deep. It was quite funny because the women both had an uproar about how this was all PJ's doing, and they were told to make it work. They said it was because they wanted to show that elves were also involved in the fighting, but couldn't show the battles taking place elsewhere (I disagree). So then one of them mentions how Lothlorien was fighting its own battle, and PJ said "Oh, really? We should shoot that to include in the RotK EE" or something like that, at which the women groaned.
They tried to justify Aragorn's fall by saying they needed a way to make him essential to the story in this movie, and to give some extra tension to it. Plus (they said), "if we didn't have something like that happen, it would have rendered the warg attack unnecessary!" to which I laughed out loud -- "So why didn't you leave that out as well!?" :p
Not much was said about Theoden's exorcism aside from what I had already guessed -- they needed a way to make it clear that it was because of Saruman's influence that Theoden was like that. I of course think the viewers would be able to discern that without making it so...like it was.

Continuing in next post...

[azalea]

They mentioned how they werew originally going to have Elrond and Arwen go to Lothlorien to consult with Galadriel, which is how we ended up with her talking to Elrond. I think thye should have just left in a little of it so it would look like the flashback it's supposed to be rather than a psychic message. I think Liv Tyler got upset about how fans were talking about her role, because apparently she pushed for some changes to be made (less warrior, more elvish woman) to return the character to how it is written. THEN they talked about how they had filmed a whole sequence in Lothlorien about her and Aragorn meeting for the first time!!!!!! But they aren't including it in anything!!! :mad: :mad: I would really like to see that, even if it's just included as an "extra" on the RotK dvd -- not even part of the movie, just a special section on the dvd.

They talked about how they changed the fact that going to war was the ents' idea to being the hobbits' because they needed for them to be more essential to the plot, rather than "baggage," which is how they see themselves in the book. But the point is that it is when Pippin looks into the palantir to throw Sauron off, then they each join one of the armies that they become essential and experience emotional growth.
PJ of course went on about how he wanted to show buildup to the battle, blah, blah. He even called that one orc the "Olympic torch bearer, and said how he was a bezerker, both things we said here at Entmoot (another reason I thought he might have been on here at some point).
I think it's obvious that he hasn't read the book in a long time, because he kept having to ask "that wasn't in the book was it?" or "Wasn't that line in the book?"
He said how showing the attack on Isengard was kind of last minute, and I think that was one of the best scenes in the movie. One funny thing: he said how they were hesitant about setting the one ent on fire, because it might disturb the kids, but then they fixed it by having him put himself out. My comment is: that is one of the least disturbing things in all of the battles! I think more disturbing is Gollum himself, the graphic scenes in Helm's Deep any shot of an orc. And he worries that THAT out of everything else is disturbing?:p It's rated PG-13 here, because it has distrubing scenes and characters. I wouldn't worry about what kids under 13 find scary, their parents whouldn't let them see it if they think their kid will be too disturbed.
They said the Huorns weren't included in the theatrical because it would be too much, but even in the EE it wasn't lingered on for very long, I think it could have been in the theatrical.
Flotsam and Jetsam he said would be too anti climactic. I do think in this movie he made Pippin and Merry a little too silly. The first movie he needed to set some things up so it wasn't a big deal to me. But in this one, he was using it SOLELY for comic relief, but I agree with what others have said -- just use the humorous lines that already existed in the book, and refrain from making it too clownish.

Finally, he talked about how the confrontation with Saruman was moved to RotK. But of course now we have rumors that it will not be in the theatrical release.
Throughout the commentary, they seem apologetic about the film, and call different parts "a slight departure from the book" in a half-joking kind of way. They seem to say that RotK will make us happier than TTT did. I'm sure I'll enjoy it no matter what, but it would be nice if they stuck to the story a little better than in this one.:)

One last thing, they kind of had an "in your face" moment at the fans when they mentioned how it wasn't Eomer that came to the "rescue" but Erkenbrand, but that how no one ever complaines about that. That made me think that maybe they hadn't been here, because that has been mentioned by several people. Maybe they just didn't see it. And they also said something like "we'll have to go on the internet tomorrow to see how people liked this." So they DO get feedback from the net, even if they don't come here in particular. I still think someone does, or has.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Azalea
Another thing that they talked about was the elves coming to Helm's Deep. It was quite funny because the women both had an uproar about how this was all PJ's doing, and they were told to make it work. They said it was because they wanted to show that elves were also involved in the fighting, but couldn't show the battles taking place elsewhere (I disagree). So then one of them mentions how Lothlorien was fighting its own battle, and PJ said "Oh, really? We should shoot that to include in the RotK EE" or something like that, at which the women groaned.
___________________________________________

So much for women not being of great importance in the affairs of Middle-earth!:) (that is, in numbers of important players as opposed to quality of importance). I haven't listened to the directors commentary yet of TT, but my impression from the FOTR commentary was similar, that PB and FW seem to have an understanding of Middle-earth, and sympathy with, beyond PJ's. Think of what the movies might have been like without their input:eek:

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by azalea
My thoughts on the commentary: I found it somewhat humorous because a lot of the last hour of the commentary felt like their apology for some of the major changes we didn't like, esp. Faramir (my big peeve). Apologizing? I think not. It seemed to me the filmmakers were making it very clear they knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. In the parts of the EE I've seen, they made it very clear they had very definite reasons for doing what they did with Faramir. These included:

1. Giving Faramir a story arc. If Faramir had been exactly the same from the beginning to the end of TTT, it would have been deadly dull on screen. Please don't respond by saying "he didn't need a story arc" because every strong film character does.

2. By moving Shelob to ROTK, it meant that Faramir had to be seen as a greater obstacle in TTT than he was in the book. As Phillipa said, if Faramir 'sort of interrogated them and then offered them a spot of tea and all the help he could give', what was the drama for the audience in that?

3. It would have destroyed the evil nature of the ring that has been built up over one and a half movies to have Faramir resist it so easily. With all due respect to azalea, her "Gandalf warned Faramir" scenario is ridiculous. Boromir "knew" from the Council of Elrond of the ring's evil lure too but it didn't keep him from falling under its influence.

4. Having Frodo brought to Osgiliath increased the danger to the ringbearer (and tension for the audience) but it also layed the groundwork for a very dramatic set of scenes in ROTK. As we know from the books, Faramir basically goes out to Osgiliath on a sucidal mission to save the city. Having the additional Osgiliath scenes in TTT will help to set this up.

[Sween]

From the extras one thing that came across loud and clear was that the warg attack was very rushed, difficult to film and in the end i think its clear that they didnt like it very much :p

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Apologizing? I think not. It seemed to me the filmmakers were making it very clear they knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. In the parts of the EE I've seen, they made it very clear they had very definite reasons for doing what they did with Faramir. These included:

No - from what Azalea has said and I will trust her before I trust you - the filmmakers were making excuses.

1. Giving Faramir a story arc. If Faramir had been exactly the same from the beginning to the end of TTT, it would have been deadly dull on screen. Please don't respond by saying "he didn't need a story arc" because every strong film character does.

I've asked you this before - how mnay films have you made since you seem to be such an expert? As for making Faramir's character dull - it wouldn't have. There is plenty of time in RotK to build up his character. He was noble and generous and understanding in books. In the movies - Jackson just turned him into an asshole.

2. By moving Shelob to ROTK, it meant that Faramir had to be seen as a greater obstacle in TTT than he was in the book. As Phillipa said, if Faramir 'sort of interrogated them and then offered them a spot of tea and all the help he could give', what was the drama for the audience in that?

There was plenty of other obstacles they could have used. :rolleyes:

3. It would have destroyed the evil nature of the ring that has been built up over one and a half movies to have Faramir resist it so easily. With all due respect to azalea, her "Gandalf warned Faramir" scenario is ridiculous. Boromir "knew" from the Council of Elrond of the ring's evil lure too but it didn't keep him from falling under its influence.

Why is that so unbelievable for you? Aragorn folded Frodo's damn hands over the Ring and you haven't criticized them for that. Yet you claim that the only way to demonstrate the evil of the Ring was to have faramir desire it. Give me a break.

4. Having Frodo brought to Osgiliath increased the danger to the ringbearer (and tension for the audience) but it also layed the groundwork for a very dramatic set of scenes in ROTK. As we know from the books, Faramir basically goes out to Osgiliath on a sucidal mission to save the city. Having the additional Osgiliath scenes in TTT will help to set this up.
It completely takes away from the character of Faramir to have dragged the hobbits there - not to mention completely destroyed the power of the nazgul. There is NO WAY that the Nazgul would have just flown off without the Ring when it was being held out to them two in front of them. :rolleyes: Talk about things that don't make sense.

[BeardofPants]

Just a question for those that have seen TT more than I, but have some scenes from the theatrical release been deleted in the extended edition? It's just that in a few scenes I could have sworn that there was more to it, but it just wasn't there. :confused:

[azalea]

In response, what I meant was that Gandalf would have done more than warn him of the Ring's power. Faramir would have been studying alongside Gandalf, and would have had a firmer mental grasp about its nature. Boromir, lest we forget, was a different person than Faramir, and was of a very different nature, aside from the fact that he wasn't well versed in Ring lore.
Hey, I see what they were trying to do, but IMO, as I've said before, he didn't need to be shown as a second Boromir. What they did, they did, but I believe in my heart it could have been different successfully. They could have set up his character differently, which could have led to his immediate resistance to the Ring being a plausible avenue. It works for me in the book, and I think they could have made it work for the general viewing audience in the film. Heck, they could even have made him very tempted, and played up his ultimate resistance even more, and still come out with a character that was shown to have more noble characteristics/ a more "successful" POV than Boromir, a theme that runs through the book. The reason he resists the Ring is not because he sees something or hears something from the hobbits that changes his mind. The reason he resists is because of his character. Though still weak as any man, he has a mental POV that allows him to understand the folly of desiring the Ring. Boromir didn't have that. Aragorn did, and Faramir did. I see it at times as Tolkien's homage to "book learning," and the value to be gained from studying the past.
I saw Phillipa's comments to be her way of trying to apologize to the book fans about the changes made to Faramir's "storyline." She kept saying they would have done it differently if they'd had time. [Obviously I still liked the movie. Whenever I offer criticism, I'm mainly stating the ways I would have done it differently had I been making it, and critiquing the movie as an adaptation of the original.]

[azalea]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Just a question for those that have seen TT more than I, but have some scenes from the theatrical release been deleted in the extended edition? It's just that in a few scenes I could have sworn that there was more to it, but it just wasn't there. :confused:

I think there were a couple of scenes that were changed from the theatrical, rather than just added to (similar to the beginning of the FotR EE). I can't think what they were right now, though.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by azalea
Hey, I see what they were trying to do, but IMO, as I've said before, he (Faramir) didn't need to be shown as a second Boromir.The movie Faramir was far from being a second Boromir. We learned in the EE that his decision to hold Frodo hostage was an effort to please his father and not because of his own lust for the ring's power. When it became clear to him that the ring was evil and that bringing "a mighty gift" to his father would not save Gondor, he decided to let the hobbits go even though his chief advisor was clearly against it. As Sam himself said about Faramir, "you showed your quality...and it is the very best."

This 'Faramir tries to please his father' storyline will be expanded upon when he attempts to defend Osgiliath against overwhelming odds in ROTK.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The movie Faramir was far from being a second Boromir. We learned in the EE that his decision to hold Frodo hostage was an effort to please his father and not because of his own lust for the ring's power. When it became clear to him that the ring was evil and that bringing "a mighty gift" to his father would not save Gondor, he decided to let the hobbits go even though his chief advisor was clearly against it. As Sam himself said about Faramir, "you showed your quality...and it is the very best."

This 'Faramir tries to please his father' storyline will be expanded upon when he attempts to defend Osgiliath against overwhelming odds in ROTK.

Well I thought that about the movie Faramir before the TTT EE. I knew he was doing that to please his father. I understand why people call Faramir an a*****e, but I don't understand why they can't let it go, because he totally redeems himself in the end which gives us who Faramir truly is. The way I look at it is that the only reason he brought them to Osgiliath was to gain some respect from his father, but then he realizes that he has betrayed himself and who he is, where he then decides it is the wrong thing to do and lets them go. He let's them go not only for those reasons I just stated, but he let's them go because he is a noble prince of men, which in my opinion is shown in that instance...

P.S. I do agree that the EE sets it up well for those that don't know the books as much...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
This 'Faramir tries to please his father' storyline will be expanded upon when he attempts to defend Osgiliath against overwhelming odds in ROTK.
You seem to know an aweful lot of what jackson will do in RotK.

It's funny who you tell me and others that we shouldn't have any criticisms for the movie since we haven't see it yet. So don't you think you should wait until AFTER you see the film before saying what jackson will do with Faramir's character? Or do you just like to praise jackson?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Well I thought that about the movie Faramir before the TTT EE. I knew he was doing that to please his father. I understand why people call Faramir an asshole, but I don't understand why they can't let it go, because he totally redeems himself in the end which gives us who Faramir truly is. The way I look at it is that the only reason he brought them to Osgiliath was to gain some respect from his father, but then he realizes that he has betrayed himself and who he is, where he then decides it is the wrong thing to do and lets them go. He let's them go not only for those reasons I just stated, but he let's them go because he is a noble prince of men, which in my opinion is shown in that instance...

P.S. I do agree that the EE sets it up well for those that don't know the books as much... Anyway, Faramir in the books was smarter. :rolleyes:
I think all of this Faramir-taking-Frodo-to-Osgiliath was a waste, since it's longer and makes you hate Faramir in the movies.
If someone didn't read the book nor took a TTT EE, how does he suppose to know Faramir wasn't mean, on purpuse, becuase the hobbits didn't say what they were doing?

And how exactly Frodo and Sam suppose to get to Cirith Ungol on time?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Anyway, Faramir in the books was smarter. :rolleyes:
I think all of this Faramir-taking-Frodo-to-Osgiliath was a waste, since it's longer and makes you hate Faramir in the movies.
If someone didn't read the book nor took a TTT EE, how does he suppose to know Faramir wasn't mean, on purpuse, becuase the hobbits didn't say what they were doing?

And how exactly Frodo and Sam suppose to get to Cirith Ungol on time?

Get to Cirith Ungol on time for what? lol

By the way, as JD and I talked earlier Osgiliath and Cirith Ungol are not far from each other, it is not that much longer...

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Don't you think you should wait until AFTER you see the film before saying what jackson will do with Faramir's character?The scene I was referring to was reviewed in the 20 minute clip from ROTK that some film critics (including folks from TORn and aintitcoolnews.com) were shown a couple of weeks ago.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The scene I was referring to was reviewed in the 20 minute clip from ROTK that some film critics (including folks from TORn and aintitcoolnews.com) were shown a couple of weeks ago.

Is there a link for it or do you have it?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Get to Cirith Ungol on time for what? lol

By the way, as JD and I talked earlier Osgiliath and Cirith Ungol are not far from each other, it is not that much longer... Yes, they're pretty close - but it would still take more few days to go to Osgiliath and back to Cirith Ungol.

On time to destroy the ring. Before Sauron destroys The aremy of Gondor.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The scene I was referring to was reviewed in the 20 minute clip from ROTK that some film critics (including folks from TORn and aintitcoolnews.com) were shown a couple of weeks ago.
Did YOU see it? I don't go by critics - nor what the jackson propaganda machine wants to put out.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Get to Cirith Ungol on time for what? lol

By the way, as JD and I talked earlier Osgiliath and Cirith Ungol are not far from each other, it is not that much longer...

If pioneers could travel 25 miles a day with handcarts through rocky paths, then Frodo and Sam could get there much sooner than that. It really isn't that big of a sidetrip.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by thranduil
If pioneers could travel 25 miles a day with handcarts through rocky paths, then Frodo and Sam could get there much sooner than that. It really isn't that big of a sidetrip.
it is because it took away from Frodo and Sam's character development and the demonstration of the toil of their journey. Instead jackson just wanted another cool action scene.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by thranduil
If pioneers could travel 25 miles a day with handcarts through rocky paths, then Frodo and Sam could get there much sooner than that. It really isn't that big of a sidetrip. The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
it is because it took away from Frodo and Sam's character development and the demonstration of the toil of their journey. Instead jackson just wanted another cool action scene.

If you were correct in your assumption. Than Jackson has failed because the scene wasn't that "cool". But it built up Faramir's charachter and showed some of gollums reasons to betray Frodo and Sam. It wasn't another cool action scene. It had meaning behind it even if though there was a "little action" thats right a little, all we see is Gondorians shooting arrows at enemies we can't see and a fell beast getting shot.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

I agree it might have taken longer because they were tired, but where did you get 40 miles from?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

It is not 40 miles from the two points, it's 25 miles at the max...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by thranduil
If you were correct in your assumption. Than Jackson has failed because the scene wasn't that "cool".

Well I'm sure he liked it.

But it built up Faramir's charachter and showed some of gollums reasons to betray Frodo and Sam.

There were plenty of ways for jackson to build up Faramir's character without first reducing him down to a clone of Boromir. As for gollum's reason for turning against Frodo and Sam - that happened at the Forbidden Pool where he thinks Frodo tricked him. That has nothing to do with osgiliath.

It wasn't another cool action scene. It had meaning behind it even if though there was a "little action" thats right a little, all we see is Gondorians shooting arrows at enemies we can't see and a fell beast getting shot.

You call a city under siege - just a little action? It had Frodo practically HANDING the damn Ring to frigging Nuzgul. It completely destroys the theme of the books -as well as the power of the Nazgul. That scene in my opinion is as bad as Flight to the Ford. Where FttF deminished frodo's strength in the movie, Osgiliath deminishes the strength of the Nazgul.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
It is not 40 miles from the two points, it's 25 miles at the max...
He's including the trip TO osgiliath - which was out of the way for them. So I do think that the mileage would have to be taken into consideration. I don't think it would have been 40 miles - but it still would have added on mileage that Frodo and Sam would not have had to make. I think more of the toil of trying to get into Mordor should have been shown and the hardships they encountered.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by thranduil
I agree it might have taken longer because they were tired, but where did you get 40 miles from? I can't see where the problem is:

They were north to Cirith Ungol.
Osgiliath is south (west) to Cirith Ungol.
If you go from where ever they were, south, and than north again, it's about 40 miles more. could be 30 actually; depends where they were exactly.

[azalea]

I finished watching the cast commentary last night. I have to say, I love Dom and Billy, they are so funny! It was a humorous contrast to go from them talking to Christopher Lee or John Rhys-Davies.:D
I liked how they changed the grouping of the hobbits to reflect their grouping in the film: instead of Dom, Billy, Elijah, and Sean, this time Dom and Billy are together, and Elijah and Sean are with Andy Serkis.
What is interesting is that the commentary of each actor reflected a little of their character unintentionally (except Elijah, Sean and Andy -- they kept going off on these intellectual discussions, maybe like Frodo would have done, but not Sam or Gollum!). For instance, Miranda Otto said how she fought with PJ a little about letting Eowyn have some scenes where she fights in Helm's Deep, which she ultimately lost. It was funny because it sounded like what Eowyn would really have done! There were other instances like this with other actors, it was just funny to compare them to their characters. (Oh and except for Bernard Hill, too -- he kept cursing! :) )
Liv, Viggo and Ian did not participate in the Commentary, and I wonder why (maybe they were off doing other projects). It was mentioned a few times how Arwen was included in Helm's Deep, but then had to be erased after they decided not to include her there (whew!).
It was nice to hear a little from Haldir (I forget the actor's name); he talked about the scene in Lorien that ended up being cut. It's too bad, I'd like to have seen it.
I have to say it was great to see Sean Bean again. That's one of my favorite scenes in the EE.
I did NOT like the more violent Gondorians kicking Gollum, etc. David Wenham said there was even more done to him, cruel stuff, that they didn't put back in (thank goodness), and that luckily they didn't have Faramir participating in the "roughing up." He said if they had, "the purists would really be up in arms.":)
I do think the extra scenes did a LITTLE more to explain Faramir's behavior, and it just irritates me that they weren't left in the theatrical ed.:rolleyes:
Oh, and one more thing: I didn't realize Sean Astin is John Astin's son (I knew MacKenzie Astin was John Astin's son, but I didn't know Sean was his brother). Sean must take after his mother more. The way I figured it out was when Sean says "my dad worked with PJ and Fran for Frighteners," and I put the two together.
Which also reminds me that a lot of the cast commentary was like a mutual admiration society.:p They were all just praising each other a lot, which got a little old. That's why it was nice to have Dom and Billy's humor, it took everything down a notch. :)
I keep editing this post because I keep remembering stuff I was going to mention: Sean Astin in that same part talks about how he hadn't read LotR before getting the part and didn't even know what it was really, but he wanted to work w/ PJ because of his dad's positive experience w/ them. Since then he has read LotR three times.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

(pasted from 'favorites scenes...')
I really liked the scene with boromir & faramir and their father. It really kind of expands on Faramir and Boromir's relationship and situation, and provides a decent motivation for Faramir's change of character. It's one of the only?/few? instances of a troubled character because of difficult family situations/conflict.... in LOTR.

However, is there anything about ROTK on the TT:EE? I thought there was a preview of ROTK on the theatrical version... I just got the tt:ee today and I like it a lot. it kind of adds some personality to the film. But is everything from the theatrical version also on the extended one? A preview for ROTK? a trailer? Anything?

[azalea]

I haven't been through all of the extras, but I think there is more on this dvd than the TE. I was disappointed though that there is no RotK trailer.:( I'm guessing that they didn't put one on there in part because they didn't want to include any scenes that end up NOT being in the RotK TE (for instance, showing part of the Saruman stuff that has now been pulled).:(

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by azalea
I haven't been through all of the extras, but I think there is more on this dvd than the TE. I was disappointed though that there is no RotK trailer.:( I'm guessing that they didn't put one on there in part because they didn't want to include any scenes that end up NOT being in the RotK TE (for instance, showing part of the Saruman stuff that has now been pulled).:(

The best trailers for RotK you can find on the website. There is the regular trailer but then there are also 4 extra videos, one on Minas Tirith, Aragorn's Destiny, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and the newest one, Eowyn!

Here are the links to all :D

RotK Trailer: http://www.lordoftherings.net/trailer_rotk/video.html

4 Extra sneak peaks: http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/video/

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn. But they likely had picked up time in the trip from Henneth Annun south through Ithlin, travily A Faramirs pace and with him as guide.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
And on disc three in a section called "book to screen" they, probably in response to criticism, try to justify Faramir's character alteration. It seems to generally come down to a conclusion that they know better then JRRT. That part rather ticked me off. Especially the part that went something along the lines of "You've established that this Ring is the most evil thing ever made and that it tempts everyone and then suddenly you have a character that says 'I wouldn't pick it up if I saw it on the side of the road'. It totally destroys everything you've built up." That ticks me off because what did Frodo do at the end of FotR? (the movie, not the book) He offered the Ring to Aragorn who resisted. So they have a precedent for movie characters resisting the Ring. Even though Faramir eventually overcame his temptation in the movie and let them go, I think they should have had him do it sooner and let them go from Henneth Annûn instead of dragging them to Osgiliath. :mad:

[squinteyedsoutherner]

I found Faramir’s men kicking and beating the crap out of Gollum annoying. For me, it certainly undermined their attempt to increase my sympathy for Faramir via the extra Denethor scenes. I still give Faramir an F.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
The best trailers for RotK you can find on the website. There is the regular trailer but then there are also 4 extra videos, one on Minas Tirith, Aragorn's Destiny, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and the newest one, Eowyn!

Here are the links to all :D

RotK Trailer: http://www.lordoftherings.net/trailer_rotk/video.html

4 Extra sneak peaks: http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/video/

My computer is too weak for that:( (and I can't get sound - very old machine, but I'm lucky to have it!:) )

I agree, squinty, the fact that he let them rough him up didn't add to my view of movie-Faramir's character as closer to that of the book. I think they shot it originally because they felt they needed to make it very obvious to the viewers WHY Gollum felt betrayed by Frodo. But I thought it came across fine (it's hard to say because of the fact that I'd already read the books -- but then again, I think the audience has suspended disbelief enough with Gollum that they could easily buy that he feels betrayed.) I don't know why they added it back in.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by azalea
I think they shot it originally because they felt they needed to make it very obvious to the viewers WHY Gollum felt betrayed by Frodo.
So another example of Jackson feeling the need to pump up the action and conflict and spoon feed the below the average Hollywood IQ audience. :rolleyes: "Come on - open up - here's the little choo choo. Choo choo... choo choo..." As Jackson feeds the audience his Lord of the Rings movies. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: To spice it up a little - sometimes he uses the airplane coming in for a landing or a car going vroom vroom. :p

[Sween]

Just been watching the directors comentry its a very strange thing as he allways speaks of not loseing momentom yet he goes on about sceans that he has just invented been important. He also IMHO seems to focused to try and find the comedy of the situation. There is very little comedy in LOTR and there shouldnt be its some quite serious s*** thats going down.

Its is however clear that the Warg attack he also thinks was terriable! If any director says we should of had more time or things were not as good as they could of been basically means this was a pile of crap :p

As for Theoden i dont understand what he ment by taking him upon a journy. He seems to want to take every character and take them from a point of been a bit unsure and stupid and take them to a point of been a Hero. Now as for Theoden as soon as he is cured in the books he becomes who he is and who all the people of Rohan are and that is Heros its not character development its who he is! Also strange pomt about Aragorn just falling into the background in the book this could not be further from the truth if he stuck to the narative then acctually for one of the brief points of the story this is were Tolkien acctually switches to Aragorn POV

[zinnite]

Originally posted by azalea
I agree, squinty, the fact that he let them rough him up didn't add to my view of movie-Faramir's character as closer to that of the book. I think they shot it originally because they felt they needed to make it very obvious to the viewers WHY Gollum felt betrayed by Frodo.
I think the fact that, from Gollum's perspective (which was made quite clear--"why master, why!?"), Frodo tricked him into being captured and tied up would be enough to establish the sense of betrayal. Turning Faramir's men into petty thugs was ridiculous and insulting. Aren't the men of Gondor supposed to be noble soldiers fighting evil? No, they're apparently a bunch of guys who have no problem beating the crap out of a starving, emaciated, frightened creature one-third their size. There's no reason that piece should have been filmed in the first place, let alone put into the EE. If the average filmgoer cannot figure it out, that's their problem.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by zinnite
Aren't the men of Gondor supposed to be noble soldiers fighting evil? Gollum is evil.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Gollum is evil.
Again an ignorant statement. You might want to (re)read the books - so you can know that Gollum wasn't necessarily evil. And at that point in the book - he was Smeagol more than Gollum.

[zinnite]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Gollum is evil.
I'll be more precise then: fighting against the evil that is about to take over and enslave all of Middle-Earth. Mordor. Sauron. The guy with the eye.

And of course the empahisis of my statement was not on the evil, but on the noble nature of the Gondorians. In the film we see none of that, only them savagely beating the creature (who is only trying to get away), evil or no.

And JD is right--Gollum was a very mixed character, and hardly purely evil. That should be obvious to even novice fans of the film.

[azalea]

Sween -- I agree, it seems like he wanted to take every character on a "journey." I felt like there were enough characters on a journey (character arc) already, that we didn't need to see Faramir and Theoden (outside of the first "awakening") go on one. The fact that Faramir "foils" his brother and falls in love with Eowyn is plenty for his character, and Theoden's transformation from dottering old man to becoming once again a valiant leader is plenty for him. They already have the Aragorn arc, the Frodo one, the Sam one, the Merry and Pippin one, the Eowyn one, the Arwen one they've brought forth, and the Gandalf one we've already seen (Grey to White), plus the Gimli and Legolas one (becoming friendly and eventually inseparable), AND the Gollum one, that there are enough arcs already in the story to make several ovals!(:confused: :rolleyes: <these are directed at myself for that last comment :P ).

[jerseydevil]

I just saw TT extended for the first tikme last night. Jackson is more of an idiot than I imagined. He continues to imply that pipeweed is pot and then he also has Merry and Pippin as the down idiots in Flotsom and Jetsom. So much for them"growing" in TT as everyone claimed. :rolleyes:

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I just saw TT extended for the first tikme last night. Jackson is more of an idiot than I imagined. He continues to imply that pipeweed is pot and then he also has Merry and Pippin as the down idiots in Flotsom and Jetsom. So much for them"growing" in TT as everyone claimed. :rolleyes:

Well, I don't see it that way, and I don't think they are idiots in the movies either. I like how they are, I enjoy their happiness and laughter. I think it helps with Pippin, cuz it shows his youth. But, that's my opinion...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Well, I don't see it that way, and I don't think they are idiots in the movies either. I like how they are, I enjoy their happiness and laughter. I think it helps with Pippin, cuz it shows his youth. But, that's my opinion...
What youth? They look like they're 30 years old. And they don't seem happy - they seem completely braindead and morons.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
What youth? They look like they're 30 years old. And they don't seem happy - they seem completely braindead and morons.

That's your opinion...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
That's your opinion...
Yes it is - and I didn't say otherwise. I seriously doubt you would want to spend much time with Pippin and Merry though by the way they act.

As I have said though repeatedly - Pippin and Merry from the books were more like wide-eyed innocents seeing the world for the first time. More like it is when someone sees NY who has never been there before. I enjoy showing people around who have never been here before - but if they acted like Pippin and Merry in the movies - I would quickly get annoyed. That is why I do not think that jackson captured them properly and I think he turned them in comic relief and just plain bumbling idiots.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I just saw TT extended for the first tikme last night. Jackson is more of an idiot than I imagined. He continues to imply that pipeweed is pot and then he also has Merry and Pippin as the down idiots in Flotsom and Jetsom. So much for them"growing" in TT as everyone claimed. :rolleyes:

Told you so! :D

I don't think these scenes show them as innocents, but as idiots. The way Merry tries to measure Pippin's height makes me cringe every time. You don't need to show Pippin's youth in the movies -- it's not that important. It would be better to imply nothing about Pippin's age than make him stupid.

I suppose we should hope for something better in the ROTK. :rolleyes:

[BeardofPants]

Dunny, why do you use ellipses all the time?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by zinnite
I think the fact that, from Gollum's perspective (which was made quite clear--"why master, why!?"), Frodo tricked him into being captured and tied up would be enough to establish the sense of betrayal. Turning Faramir's men into petty thugs was ridiculous and insulting. Aren't the men of Gondor supposed to be noble soldiers fighting evil? No, they're apparently a bunch of guys who have no problem beating the crap out of a starving, emaciated, frightened creature one-third their size. There's no reason that piece should have been filmed in the first place, let alone put into the EE. If the average filmgoer cannot figure it out, that's their problem. I have watched TTT EE a couple of times now and I absolutely agree with you. I cannot say how much I loathe that scene. It completely ruins Faramir's character. Having him send the Ring to Gondor is bad enough, but letting him stand by and watch his men beat up their prisoner is just way out. Where is the learned, noble man with an air of Númenor about him? Arrrrgh!! :mad:

On the other hand, the Osgiliath scene with Denethor and his sons were very well done. I appreciate seeing the love between the two brothers, despite their father's attitude, and I enjoyed watching how much Boromir was loved by the people of Gondor.

Must mention the Huorns too. Nice to have them in. They were great. :)

[Black Breathalizer]

As usual, we have a bunch of folks overreacting to a scene straight out of Tolkien.

To put it bluntly, the Gondorian soldiers were provoked to violence. Gollum struggled against his captors. He clawed, scratched, and snapped at the soldiers. No wonder they weren't particularly gentle with him--which is exactly the way Tolkien described their behavior towards Gollum.

Maybe you didn't picture as much violence as Jackson did. But once again, you can't fault him for taking something Tolkien implied in the text and expanding upon it for film.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

originally posted by Black Breathalizer
To put it bluntly, the Gondorian soldiers were provoked to violence. Gollum struggled against his captors. He clawed, scratched, and snapped at the soldiers. No wonder they weren't particularly gentle with him--which is exactly the way Tolkien described their behavior towards Gollum.
_______________________________________

Actually, I believe the Gondorians did not use violence on Gollum, only threatened to use force if he continued resisting.
"At that moment the great black shape of Anborn loomed up behind him and came down on him. He twisted round like lightning, all wet and slimy as he was, wriggling like an eel, biting and scratching like a cat. But two more men came up out of the shadows.
"Hold still!" said one. "or we'll stick you as full of pins as a hedgehog. Hold still!"

That's a use of, and threat of employing more, minimal force, not the gratuitous caught on video police-style beating up seen in the dvd.

But it should be noted that Faramir doesn't participate and seems to be ordering the beating to stop.

[Artanis]

I didn't see Gollum fight or struggle in the scene I'm talking about. There was no need for violence. The Gondorians kicked him when he was lying on the ground.

This is what the book says:
A man came and beckoned to the hobbits, and took them to the recess at the back of the cave. Faramir was sitting there in his chair, and the lamp had been rekindled in its niche above his head. He signed to them to sit down on the stools beside him. `Bring wine for the guests,' he said. `And bring the prisoner to me.'
The wine was brought, and then Anborn came carrying Gollum. He removed the cover from Gollum's head and set him on his feet standing behind him to support him. Gollum blinked, hooding the malice of his eyes with their heavy pale lids. A very miserable creature he looked, dripping and dank, smelling of fish (he still clutched one in his hand); his sparse locks were hanging like rank weed over his bony brows, his nose was snivelling.
`Loose us! Loose us! ' he said. `The cord hurts us, yes it does, it hurts us, and we've done nothing.'
`Nothing? ' said Faramir, looking at the wretched creature with a keen glance, but without any expression in his face either of anger, or pity, or wonder. 'Nothing? Have you never done anything worthy of binding or of worse punishment? However, that is not for me to judge, happily. But tonight you have come where it is death to come. The fish of this pool are dearly bought.'
Gollum dropped the fish from his hand. `Don't want fish,' he said.
'The price is not set on the fish,' said Faramir. `Only to come here and look on the pool bears the penalty of death. I have spared you so far at the prayer of Frodo here, who says that of him at least you have deserved some thanks. But you must also satisfy me. What is your name? Whence do you come? And whither do you go? What is your business? '
`We are lost, lost,' said Gollum. 'No name, no business, no Precious, nothing. Only empty. Only hungry; yes, we are hungry. A few little fishes, nasty bony little fishes, for a poor creature, and they say death. So wise they are; so just, so very just.'
'Not very wise,' said Faramir. 'But just: yes perhaps, as just as our little wisdom allows. Unloose him Frodo! ' Faramir took a small nail-knife from his belt and handed it to Frodo. Gollum misunderstanding the gesture, squealed and fell down.
'Now, Sméagol! ' said Frodo. 'You must trust me. I will not desert you. Answer truthfully, if you can. It will do you good not harm.' He cut the cords on Gollum's wrists and ankles and raised him to his feet.There is no struggle or fighting from Gollum's side here, and no violence from Faramir's side. What you are referring to and what Tuor have quoted is the scene by the pool where Gollum is captured, which was done nicely in the movie btw.

However, my complaint is not that the scene isn't taken directly from the book, it's that Faramir's character deviates from the book. It is my strong opinion that the Faramir in the book would never have permitted, and certainly not watched without interfering, such a treatment of Gollum as was shown in the dvd. Faramir in the book was stern and strong, but would not turn to violence unless it was necessary.

[Artanis]

About Merry and Pip, here I agree with Dúnedain. I don't think they came out as stupid in the movies. I would rather say playful and light-spoken, which is in line with the way Hobbits generally are.

[Ringil]

After Gollum's capture and interrogation (in the book), Faramir says, "Take this creature away, Anborn. Treat him gently, but watch him."

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Artanis
About Merry and Pip, here I agree with Dúnedain. I don't think they came out as stupid in the movies. I would rather say playful and light-spoken, which is in line with the way Hobbits generally are.
They were playful and lightspoken in the flotsom and jetsom scene? "duh duh, I'm pippin :p" You think that after the way they acted there they have any business being Guard of the Citadel or Warrior of the Mark.

As for Gollum BB - the Gondorians NEVER held Gollum while one person punched him, nor did they then throw him against the wall. He was just afraid that they were going to hurt him in the books.

[Falagar]

About Merry and Pip, here I agree with Dúnedain. I don't think they came out as stupid in the movies. I would rather say playful and light-spoken, which is in line with the way Hobbits generally are.
I think the last scene with Merry and Pippin was very overdone. They weren't exactly stupid, but like they'd breathed some sort of pleasure-gas (don't know what "lyst-gass" is in english)

[Artanis]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
They were playful and lightspoken in the flotsom and jetsom scene? "duh duh, I'm pippin :p" You think that after the way they acted there they have any business being Guard of the Citadel or Warrior of the Mark.Yes I do. The Flotsam and Jetsam scene was nice imo, and I thought the "I'm taller than you" competition was funny. They were jesting a lot in the books too, you know. That doesn't mean they weren't serious when the situation called for it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
I think the last scene with Merry and Pippin was very overdone. They weren't exactly stupid, but like they'd breathed some sort of pleasure-gas (don't know what "lyst-gass" is in english)

Lauging gas? Anyway - Jackson continued to imply that Pipeweed was pot- even though Tolkien went through the entire history of Pipeweed. Jackson seems to like it to be pot - so he has all these pot jokes.

[Artanis]

Oh - the presence of pipeweed in Isengard should imply that Saruman had some bad business going on in the Shire. But there will be no scouring. :rolleyes:

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Artanis
Yes I do. The Flotsam and Jetsam scene was nice imo, and I thought the "I'm taller than you" competition was funny. They were jesting a lot in the books too, you know. That doesn't mean they weren't serious when the situation called for it.
They always have a dumb ass expression on their face. They never acted braindead in the books. As I said - it was more innocent than stupid. Look at the tent scene in the beginning of the movie. In the book - Merry and Pippin would not have been stupid enough to light a "rocket" in a tent.

[Artanis]

Hehe - maybe not - but they would perhaps be eager enough, or drunk enough, to do it? I do not care about scenes like that, as long as they are reasonably in character. I don't see them as stupid in the movie. So far I think Pip and Merry have been overall well portrayed. Just my opinion.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Artanis
Hehe - maybe not - but they would perhaps be eager enough, or drunk enough, to do it? I do not care about scenes like that, as long as they are reasonably in character. I don't see them as stupid in the movie. So far I think Pip and Merry have been overall well portrayed. Just my opinion.
I guess I have a different view - because Pippin and Merry were my favorite characters in the book. I thought it would be cool to be their friends. But the movie characters - I would want to just throw them through the wall or just leave them. They're so stupid and idiotic in the movie. They would quickly get on my nerves. Whereas in the book they were just carefree and innocent.

As another example of their stupidity - look at the Council of Elrond scene.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Artanis
Hehe - maybe not - but they would perhaps be eager enough, or drunk enough, to do it? I do not care about scenes like that, as long as they are reasonably in character. I don't see them as stupid in the movie. So far I think Pip and Merry have been overall well portrayed. Just my opinion.

I agree Artanis, I like the way they are so far as well. Besides they have had serious scenes in the movie so far as well. In FotR, Merry got composed and banded everyone together to get Frodo out of the Shire. In TTT, Pippin says to Merry that maybe they should just go back to the shire, showing his "innocence", whereby Merry paints the bigger picture for him about how there "won't be a shire" left. Then later we see Pippin growing more and helping Treebeard rouse the Ents. Even though that is a deviation from the book, it helps show him growing.

Ultimately, the parts where Pippin has been a so-called "goof" and stuff like that just shows me his innocent youth and light hearted nature. Merry is more serious in the movies thus far than Pippin has been, and I think that's a direct result of the showing of their "hobbit ages" as they were in the book.

That's just a few things, but I still like their characters thus far. The only character I've had any problems with so far is Faramir, but not so much, because I like the way he redeemed himself in the end.

P.S. I also don't think Jackson is making the pipeweed to be pot, but that's just my opinion, I just think he is showing it as something that the hobbits value and love as something from home...

[jerseydevil]

Well my opinion is that they are complete morons and completely annoying.

[HOBBIT]

i dont have the TT EE dvd (or reg TT dvd for that matter), should I get it?

[Pytt]

yes! offcourse you should! i'm wondering why you haven't bought it already :rolleyes: but that's me.

[azalea]

Yes, if you got the FotR EE and liked it better than the theatrical. Or you could always just rent it and see if you'd like to have it for your very own. :)

[Manveru]

its soooo much better than the original
i hardly even watch the theatrical versions nemore, i always watch extended
cant wait for rotk ee