Mean Faramir

[Faramir Took]

I was thouroughly disappointed with Faramir's character in the movie. He was short, rude, and overbearing! Nothing at all like the courteous gentleman that existed in the book. What did everyone else think of this?

However, I did enjoy the movie, and I enjoyed most of the changes that PJ made.

Cannot wait till next year!!!

[Ërendil]

I completly agree with you. I thought that Famamir was nasty and nothing like his character in the book. I don't know why PJ did this, as the outcome is still the same - Frodo and Sam are let go.

But like you I did enjoy the movie and I can't wait until the next film either. I think (and I have said so before) that if you think that this film will be the book brought to life you will be disapointed. However if you just watch the film, you will enjoy it much more.

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I didn't like Faramir much either!
Well I really like the character! but not how he came across in the film!
I thought that he totally looked the part and the scenes he did were good! But they only showed his bad side where as in the book he seems really nice!
Maybe if they showed some of these then he would be perfect!!
You also didn't see much of him which was a shame!!

I loved the film though and really want to see it again!!!!

[IronParrot]

Well, now that I saw the film a second time, I understood the changes with Faramir far more.

Upon reflection, he is still the same character as Tolkien's Faramir - and before you rope me my the neck and drag me through the Emyn Muil, let me explain why.

In Tolkien's work, why is Faramir so resistant to the Ring? Well, it's certainly in his character that he is less ambitious than his brother, and is the neglected younger son in many ways. But his concern for the defense of Gondor is no different.

In the film, what Jackson/Walsh/Boyens changed was not Faramir's fundamental personality, but rather the information he had.

I would argue that a major reason why Faramir allowed Frodo to go in the book was because he was well aware of the nature of Boromir's death. He knew that it had something to do with "Isildur's Bane", and that there was dissension in the Fellowship.

He doesn't know any of this. In the film, he lets Frodo go right after two critical moments: first, Sam tells him of Boromir's fall - and second, he sees how the Ring draws evil when the airborne Nazgul confronts Frodo. He witnesses firsthand the power of the Ring, but prior to that, did not know of its power to corrupt, and its utter inability to do good.

In the book, he knows all of this early enough to make a firm, early decision to forsake the Ring.

Also notice that Faramir does not take the Ring. He still resists, but in his desire for the defense of Gondor, he plans to bear it as a gift to his father.

Also notice that while the attack on Osgiliath and Faramir's retreat over the river is a passing "background" event in ROTK, the threat from the East is clearly established in the film. In the film, Faramir has the additional motive of coming to Gondor's defense; such urgency, and the nature of what he does after he leaves Frodo, is not mentioned until far later in the book.

I would dare say that Tolkien's Faramir would have done exactly the same thing - resist taking the Ring for himself, but take the Ring to Gondor - had he possessed the knowledge of the preliminary assault on Osgiliath, and lacked the knowledge of the nature of Boromir's fall.

What you are seeing in both versions is the same character, just under completely different circumstances that necessitate completely different reactions.

[Falagar]

I too liked Faramir in the movie. In the beginning it was hard to absorb, but when I thought it over, I liked him. And after reading some posts at the SF-Fandom board I liked him even better. I've always felt that Faramir was a little too inhuman in the book.

If you knew that the One Ring was just within your grasp, and that it would make your father proud if you gave it to him and that it might save your people and make you the grand hero, would you have taken it?
But when he saw what it did to Frodo, he understood that the Ring was dangerous and he let Frodo go.

What was more annoying though was the Osgiliath-scene. It just felt strange!

Forgot to read your post before I posted IronParrot, so I'm not "ripping you off" :)

[olsonm]

Faramir wasn't mean. He was a solider doing his duty to father and country. All they really did was stretch out the time frame in which Faramir was given the information he needed to make his final decision. (In the book he got all the info at Henneth Annun) This was done to pad out Frodo's part in the movie (according to the filmakers). This certainly wasn't the only way they could have gone with Faramir but it was plausible in the context of the film. I also have heard that they wished to give Faramir a "character arc" which, again, isn't necessary but works for me.

[BeardofPants]

I had no problem with the faramir characterisation in the movie. It worked, and that's good enough for me. After reading all the reviews in the spoilers thread, I was expecting an Evil Faramir, but all I could see was someone who, like Boromir, was concerned with saving Gondor. I honestly had no problems with Faramir in the movie.

[Elf.Freak]

i hated Faramir! whenever he came on i always said to my sister "great. more blabbeling. can i fall asleep now?" but if i did, i'd have missed the rest of the film;)

[BeardofPants]

That's ironic, considering how much you babble. :rolleyes:

[Kalimac]

To be fair we have only seen a small bit of Faramir's 'character . . there is another movie, after all, where perhaps we'll be able to finally see the 'real' Faramir emerge. Let's not be so hasty. Patience.

[akutach]

I have to agree that the extra intrigue at Osgiliath was practical from the point of view of balancing the characters. There simply is not enough happening with Frodo and Sam so Faramir was the only remaining story line to extend. My problem with Faramir's portrayal is that he has better foresight than Boromir and Denethor in the books. He understands the peril of the Ring, he doesn't have to see it in action. I think Jackson could have extended the action and character building by having Faramir guide them through part of Ithilien and let them go their own way after, let's say, another confrontation with men from the south. Why not a good guy and story padding together?

[Millane]

are there any complaints about David Wenham or (for the people that thought he wasnt good) was it just the character, coz i had a gut feeling that David Wenham would stuff it up... please tell me it was his fault then my feelings towards him wont seem superstitious... after all he is no Sean Bean is he???
ohhhh i was hoping that when you said he was evil that it would make Boromir seem like the better son again...

I must be honest if i was in Denethors position i think i would also favor Boromir and neglect Faramir.

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I thought that the actor playing Faramir was perfect!! He totally looked the part!
Sean Bean was an excellent Boromir and I think that in the film there is something, that makes Boromir and Faramir look alike and seem alike! not totally but slightly! If you know what i mean? :confused: just that something about them

[Lizra]

I didn't think faramir was mean. Heck, he let them go! People rarely do what you want them to! Get real! :)

[Millane]

i dunno about them looking similar coz i havent seen it yet but David Wenham looks like nothing i would have pictured as a Gondorian... Boromir was always my favorite of the 2... he was a valiant war pig and he obviously just had very patriotic feelings to Gondor... i was so said the first time i read lord and i still get sad reading the breaking of the fellowship yet when i heard rumours that Faramir was going to get killed off in the movie i was like good he was messed up (mainly i think coz he was the neglected son mwahahahahaha)

so what Faramir let them go woooohooo boromir took god knows how many arrows trying to save Merry and Pippin and went down in the process... what a champ

[Elf Girl]

I didn't like him, remember he has to become Steward of Gondor in the next movie, how will they clear this up???

[Nilore]

I felt like he was more hum how should I put it- Cold sholdered in the book. In fact he seemed evil. I blame his dad!!!!

Nilore

[Millane]

BLAME???!!!! what just because denethor realised that boromir was way better than faramir??? i dont, i blame Faramir for not adapting to become more like boromir...
and as for him becoming steward well here is another of my great theories...
Aragorn will get narsil reforged and at his coronation he will kill Faramir, then boromirs boat somehow floated down the anduin and sailed the sea to the undying lands where he was cured by the Valar then he got back into his boat and came back to middle earth and went to Minas Tirith where he claims the title of Steward of Gondor
WOOOOO!!!! GO BOROMIR!!!! DEATH TO FARAMIR!!!!! STEWARDSHIP TO BOROMIR!!!!

[azalea]

You guys would like Boromir better, wouldn't you?:p ;)

[BeardofPants]

Apart from the rather grim look when he was giving orders to fire on Gollum, I don't think he was particularly evil. Grim, and weather-worn, but not evil. I don't think it will be hard to 'redeem' him in the next movie. After all, he had fairly good reasons to act the way he did... two strangers passing in Ithilien... Frodo lies about Gollum, etc.

[IluvSmeagol13]

i loved faramir in the book...but in the movie they did make him sound a little to mean.there was nothing good about him in the movie till he let frodo,sam,and gollum go.ah well...

*faramir is hot*

[Blackboar]

No... Faramir was supposed to be hot....BUT HES NOT!!!!!!

I think he is really mean in the movie!!! Dam Peter Jackson!!

[Millane]

no way PJ did a good job by making Faramir a... shifty carachter, it just elevates Boromir.... Faramir is hot urrrrggghhhhh...

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Blackboar
No... Faramir was supposed to be hot....BUT HES NOT!!!!!!

I sincerely doubt that Tolkien was setting out to make Faramir "hot." :rolleyes:

[olsonm]

Faramir's character wasn't changed. What was changed was the when and from whom Faramir learned the pertinent information. Once he had all the info Faramir immediately made the same decision that he made in the book.

[Blackboar]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I sincerely doubt that Tolkien was setting out to make Faramir "hot." :rolleyes:

Rumour going round...etc etc etc

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Blackboar
No... Faramir was supposed to be hot....BUT HES NOT!!!!!! You want Faramir to be hot? Look here (http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/eiszmann/Faramir_72dpi.jpg), and here (http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/eiszmann/eiszmann70.jpg) . :D

[Earniel]

I do think Faramir's character was changed. I understand that he would want to take the ring to Gondor to save his land that that it doesn't make him 'evil'. But the Faramir in the book could in my opinion see further, he was after all a pupil of Gandalf. He guessed that the ring wouldn't be able to save Gondor in the end. The book-Faramir possessed the nobility and humility of the old numenoreans, just as Boromir and Denethor had their pride and strenght. I miss that in the movie. The movie made Faramir and Boromir more like one another while the book put more meaning in their differences. To me and I stress that this is my personal opinion, Faramir just looked wrong. It'll be interesting, though, to see how Faramir will be tackled in ROTK next year.

[Thingol_GreyMantle]

While Faramir's character worked well in the movie, I still miss some of the interaction between him and Frodo/Sam. Faramir was, after all, a student of Gandalf, and Frodo still thinks Gandalf is gone. He inparts this news to Faramir in the book and this could have been included in the movie.

Faramir comes across more as a experienced soldier in the movie. His reading of the ME map is an assist to the audience who have not read the books. He places the action in a geographical context for the audience.

What I felt didn't work is the confrontation between Frodo and the Nazgul. They are not 'fell' enough.

[cassiopeia]

The way everyone was talking, I thought Faramir was going to start pawing at Frodo like Gollum. I do wish he was a bit more like in the book, but he was hardly developed as a character, hopefully we will see the Faramir from the book in ROTK. On the subject of Faramir taking Frodo to Osgiliath: if he didn't he would be subject to death. Sure, he lets Frodo and Sam go eventually after seeing the Nazgul, when he understood what the ring would do and what is at stake. I didn't like how they spoke of the ring so openly, in front of all of Faramir's men.

[squinteyedsoutherner]

You may like the Faramir of the film, but one cannot argue it is essentially the same character as the book. Tolkien is using Faramir to highlight the theme of the book: Great strength and virtue can reside in what is average or even weak.

Faramir, like many characters in this book is on one side of the the book's theme with a balancing character on the other. This literary device is known as "foil" . One side see the wisdom of the book's theme, the other does not. Gandalf vs Saruman, Aragorn vs Denethor, Faramir vs Boromir, Frodo vs Gollum (it was for structural purposes that Tolkien revealed Gollum as a hobbit in this book). The characters who fail to see the wisdom of Tolkien's theme will all end in ruin, the characters who do see that wisdom have much better fortunes before them.

Faramir is also the "younger" brother of Boromir which means he will not inherit (in the largest sense of the word). In Feudal society a younger brother was seen as a much weaker version of the father. That is why Faramir is upholding the book's theme by releasing Frodo and even protecting him by changing the direction of the conversation in front of his men, his brother elected to try and take the ring.

The movie Faramir releases Frodo for pragmatic reasons. He sees the ring will not really aid Gondor at all. That is not the thematic motivation Tolkien was presenting in his book. Faramir releases Frodo in the book because of his faith in the book's theme, he does not fully know the extent to which the ring could have aided Gondor, and that is what makes his decision significant.

After reading Philippa Boyens comment that Tolkien went off on a tangent in the Two Towers( I would argue with a 45 minute battle scene, and a warg attack at the expense of many chapters of the book, the "tangent" lies elesewhere). Or Jackson's commentary on the first film, or even his words on Faramir in the interview posted in another thread, it is more than clear that this writing team does not understand this work in any significant way beyond the basic plot line.

[Orpheus]

I had the impression that in the movie Faramir was a bit dumb...
Just a human. In a pretty normal and greedy cind of way. Not the royal behaving person I would like him to be him to be...

[TinuvielChild]

Hmm. Before reading this thread (especially IP's post), I felt that Movie-Faramir was nowhere near as good as Book-Faramir. I think, though, that now I understand PJ's point of view on this one, and why he did what he did concerning Faramir. I think I'll reserve judgement on Faramir until I've seen RotK, as we haven't seen the full extent of the character yet.


Oh, there's a link to an interview with PJ and Phillippa Boyens in one of the other threads in LotR Movies that gives a little more insight into what the directors were thinking when they portrayed Faramir that way.



Whoever says Faramir wasn't hot is hereby proclaimed to be Nowt but a Ninnyhammer! ;) :p

[squinteyedsoutherner]

It is the moment when book Faramir realizes that Frodo has the ring of power and is taking it into Mordor that Sam says:

"now's a chance to show your quality"

That is a brilliant writer asking Faramir if he believes in the wisdom of the book's theme, and Faramir replies "it was safe to declare this to me" "be comforted, but do not speak of this out loud" There is no hesitation in Faramir once he knows the facts, even though he knows his father will not understand, that this decision may cost him his life. Some dramatic Irony: it is Denethor and Boromir who will (did) not survive.

Tolkien is trying to prove the theme with Faramir's choice as well, the "weaker" brother, the "weaker" son has done what the strong father and brother could not (or would not ). No Gandalf or Elrond to help him decide, and all the force he needs to take the ring to Gondor, and he still says no. That is important. That is why Tolkien is a great writer and Jackson and his girlfriend are not.

Movie Faramir is a pragmatist who happens to make the same decision because he has seen first hand that the ring cannot be used in Gondor. His first decision was to send the ring to Denethor. Not at all the same motive. Nowhere near the same elegance. In a word, hack.

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I've changed my mind! I do quite like him now I've seen the film again! I still think that he comes across as being a bit mean but not as much as i first thought!!:)

[unregistered]

I have to agree. Faramir upsetted me very much. There were lots of mistakes in the movies, but I could let those go. This one I can't. It was just pitiful, there is no reason that they needed to change faramirs character. It could have been just as good for the movie if they played him as the good guy he really was

[Eowyn Telcontar]

I thought Faramir was evil, but still nice! I don't know. I'm such a confused child. Anyways, in the book, he was sooo nice, and really strong, and not weak like Boromir and ahh! evil Faramir. But I guess the change turned out ok