The Silmarillion: The Movie

[Lord Xanthyz]

Sorry to get your hopes up guys(:p ), although I wish they were making one. So how exactly would they make this movie? I see many problems that would arise in the event someone would attempt to do this:
1) The book covers a HUGE amount of time. It is nearly impossible to cover that much time in 2, or even 3 hrs.
2) The book is separated into many different stories. Although it is helpful that they all are closely linked.

Who makes these LoTR movies? Maybe we should e-mail them a petition for a Silmarillion movie :)

[Inoldonil]

Believe it or not I've done a lot of pondering about this subject. I've decided that if you were to leave everything in between the Ainulindale and The War of Wrath, filling holes necessarily, doing a lot of research for accuracy, using background stories (what there is of Of Tuor and The Fall of Gondolin, Narn I Hin Hurin, etc.), you could make about 13 two-two 1/2 hour movies! That's a lot of story.

I am afraid something on this scale would probably not be attempted. Quite frankly I would be a little worried if someone said they got the license and they were going to make a movie (hopefully atleast they would say 'movies') based on The Silmarillion.

I think to make a movie for the Akallabeth and Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age would be even harder.

Still, I think audiences would appreciate one movie based on Beren and Luthien or the Narn I Hin Hurin. I'd love to see the Narn on the silver screen. &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
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[Lord Xanthyz]

I believe a movie ONLY on the story of these two, since it is one of the largest chapters in the book, would be able to entertain a large spectrum of audiences.

Although, I think the longest movie ever made was 89 hrs. (I am not sure on that one, I checked Guiness Book of World Records Homepage (http://www.guinessworldrecords.com) and found nothing), so why not turn those 13 2.5 hr. movie into one gigantic 30 hr. movie! At least I would watch it. :D

[easygreen]

The story of Beren and Luthien would make a fine movie.

[easterlinge]

I always thought that if anything at all was done, the Silmarillion would be an epic series.... like Babylon 5.

[Randy1012]

I haven't read The Silmarillion yet (I'm only on The Hobbit so far), but I felt it was OK for me to speak up in this thread. :) Judging by the vastness of The Silmarillion, from what you all are saying about it, maybe they could do like a long television miniseries? Y'know, something like North and South maybe. ::shrug::

[Captain Stern]

A TV series! Please take a few moments and imagine how horrible that would be.

[Randy1012]

Yeah, I know, but I don't think they'd do a whole long string of movies just for one book.

[Lord Xanthyz]

Randy-- You'll take that back when you read it:)

[Randy1012]

Hehe...yeah, probably. :)

[Sephiroth9611]

Making a movie based on any part of the Silmarillion would be a foolish endeavor. The background would be glossed over to the point of making the movie the entire battle against good and evil rather than just a part of the larger struggle. It would be pointless.

[Grand Admiral Reese]

Only a few of the tales would be filmable. The Tale of Beren and Luthien, the Narn i Hin Hurin, the Fall of Gondolin, and the Downfall of Numenor/Last Alliance of Men and Elves could be filmed. The Darkening of Valinor as well.

[X Rogue]

It could be done, as a series of movies that told parts of the story. Think Star Wars Saga. Separating out the Lay of Leithan (Luthien and Beren) and the Narn i hin Hurin and the breaking of the Two Trees + the Exile would be a good way to keep focus. Trouble is, I don't know if the production companies would find it profitable enough to take a risk on such a saga. Perhaps we should form the Entmoot Film group and do it ourselves. :)

[Lord Xanthyz]

There ya go Rogue:)

If we all banded together and got all our pocket change together...well...never mind...:)

[Inoldonil]

Sephiroth, would not making a movie based off just a part of the larger struggle be the goal? Or rather, a string of movies, each based off one of the parts in the story?

Admiral, I disagree. You would have to fill in spots with more dialogue and character content and if you do it could work.

The way I see it, filling in holes and using background info like I said, the 13 two or three hour movies (app) would contain content corresponding to the following chapters (but I must stress other material would be used):

First movie
.....Ainulindale (includes content found in Valaquenta)
.....Of the Beginning of Days
.....Of Aule and Yavanna
.....Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor
Second
.....Of Thingol and Melian
.....Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
.....Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
Third
.....Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
.....Of the Darkening of Valinor
Fourth
.....Of the Flight of the Noldor
.....Of the Sindar
Fifth
.....Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor
.....Of Men
Sixth
.....Of the Return of the Noldor (14th chapter not really needed)
.....Of the Noldor in Beleriand
.....Of Maeglin
Seventh
.....Of the Coming of Men into the West
.....Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
Eighth
.....Of Beren and Luthien
Ninth
.....Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad (elements from this would be used in the following)
Tenth
.....Of Turin Turambar (the beginning of the next would be briefly told at the end of this, and elaborated further in the next)
Eleventh
.....Of the Ruin of Doriath
Twelfth
.....Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin
Thirteenth
.....Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath

[X Rogue]

IMHO, excellent divisions and layout, Inoldonil. Where do we get the material to fill in holes, HOME or elsewhere? Is the dialougue in the Silmarillion, sufficiently explicative, and how much do we need to add if any? Anyone?

[Inoldonil]

IMHO, excellent divisions and layout, Inoldonil. Where do we get the material to fill in holes, HOME or elsewhere?

HOME, Unfinished Tales, some Letters, yes. Ideally for me you would have to study it, so as to try to get accuracy.

I feel one would definitely need to expand on the dialogue, in some places you would need to put it in period. We have some examples of dialogue in background stuff, in The Shibboleth of Feanor (published Vol. XII of HoME), to give an example, there is good material for filling up my proposed Second and Third movies, and dialogue. I think one would definitely need a narrator, whatever the case.

But the narrator couldn't sound all distant, like a brief commentator with no identity who makes sure you don't get lost. In the latest LOTR BBC adaptation, the story fades out when the narrator speaks, mainly to summarize large expanses of time. As a result, visual things are related by the characters and it becomes a little silly. A narrator for Silmarillion movies would have to sound interactive with the movie, it wouldn't change this or that, but would sound present with the story, like an observer with deeper insight into what is going on.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
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[Lord Xanthyz]

HOME?
What's that?

[Inoldonil]

History of Middle-earth (series).

[Lord Xanthyz]

I learn there are more and mpore books about Middle-earth every day it seems:)

Is there a web-site where I can find a complete list of every book by and about tolkien and his books?

[Inoldonil]

A Concise Listing of Tolkien Books (http://www.ma.man.ac.uk/~jchuhta/tolkien.html) sounds like what you're looking for.

[Lord Xanthyz]

That sounds like it will help...
Thanks:)

[Xivigg]

Problemes is folks that you can't take a book and make a film right out of it

someone will have to make a scenario out of it

then the director will change thing as he see fit

then the productor will change thing too

in the end it is very likely that you don't recognise the history as you read it in the book.

[Inoldonil]

I don't know, as far away from the Lord of the Rings as Peter Jackson's movies appear to be, it's still recognizable, not only in name. If they called it something else we'd all still know what story it is.

[lindil]

I have given a little thought to a silm movie over the past few weeks ironically enough. HoME definately provides soe material but to follow the proposed 13 part outlinewould require as Michael martinez once said' inspired forgery' of the highest order, and lots of it. We have only a few words of dialouge from each battle. An interesting idea and if the LotR movie is as big as Star Wars I bet the will seriously consider The Silm as well as a new 'The Hobbit'. But if the Quendi don't lose the pointy ears they might as well not bother. :)

HoME esp especially some of the Lost tales and Unfinished Tales material would df. help flesh out a Silm movie a nd there is a project underway to incorporate it into a new Silm, which might be of some interest to any pondering the movie outline /idea more seriously.

[easterlinge]

I think the Story of Beren and Luthien would make fine musical or opera, like Wagner's Ring of the Nibelungen.

Has anyone written it? I know no one has played or performed it, but maybe it has been written?




If you're willing to mutilate the story a fair bit, you can do the Slimarillion Movie in a Trilogy:

1) Melkor's Escape (to make it more interesting than his being paroled)
Feanor's Revolt and the Oath
.......... ending in the Dagor Bragollach and the Death of Fingolfin. Make the Battle a far bigger disaster than it originally was. Maybe Fingolfin dies trying to save Maedhros :lol:

2) Story of Beren and Luthien.
It ends with the Feanorians demanding the Silmaril from Thingol. Shades of future trouble

3) The Union of Maedhros, Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Feanorians and Thingol exchange insults and blame for the Nirnaeth, resulting in the Sack of Doriath.
(the Silmarillion is mutilated further..... bear with me folks !!! :) )
Luthien and Beren (still alive) ride away, make it to Balar and sail off to Valinor, bringing the Valar and starting the war of Wrath on Morgoth.

There!!! How was it? :rollin: g

[Inoldonil]

frightening :eek:

[easterlinge]

Reminds me of when someone played the complete works of Shakespeare in 60 minutes :lol:


But Beren and Luthien are very strong characters. The simplified movie would revolve around them, Daeron, King Finrod, one Silmaril, two Feanorian factions (Maedhros-Maglor vs Celegorm-Curufin-Caranthir), Fingolfin , and Thingol and Melian.


The Sil in its original form has too many characters to make a proper movie.


Even an epic series like Babylon 5 revolved around a dozen characters or so. You need some central characters around which the story could crystallize.


About the Beren-Luthien musical / opera..... does anyone know if it has been written?

[SauronDL]

No, if a movie of The Silmarillion was to be made, you would have to including the Elves of Eregion and the forging of the Rings. It's a must! It can be confirmed that the chapter, 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' is the most read by readers of the book, and the most common reason to read it at all.

[easterlinge]

The Sil Movie would focus on the First Age, ending with the War of Wrath, long before Eregion and the Rings.


I suppose we could do a separate movie about the Rings of Power.....

make it an action movie with Elrond doing some cool moves....

[Lord Xanthyz]

The Silmarillion covers too much of a time span though....Narn I Hin Hurin or the Lay of Luthien would be better fit (and could end up making more money) than a movie covering all of the Silmarillion

[Shanamir Duntak]

The Sil would be better if they'd make a TV serie out of it.... like 15 different episodes, for as many tales told. But... then it couldn't have the same profesionalism and that much money involved...

[X Rogue]

I know, and it's a shame, too. I'd like to see the Silmarillion made into something, but a mini series for tv might well be the only way to get enough time to tell the story. And you know what those usually turn into. Look at Dune 2000!

[Shanamir Duntak]

Sad...

[webwizard333]

Scifi might be up to making a mini-series, they do have a lot of experiance thanks to Dune and most of Stephen King's books.

[X Rogue]

Yes, but which would you genuinely describe as good? Dune was a mess (again!) and I haven't seen the King ones so can't comment on those. Butchering Frank Herbert is bad enough, who wants them butchering the Silmarillion too?

[webwizard333]

I liked their Dune mini series!

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think you will find that any movie made from the books of Tolkien, and this includes the Peter Jackson films, is first and foremost made to make money and this means appealing to the general audience. The average person is who these movies are made for, not hard core Tolkien readers like us. And unfortunately with this method of movie making, especially with something as complex as Tolkien, it would mean eliminating characters that may to the director, and the average movie goer might be considered non-essential to the story. For instance, In the Jackson movie, Gildor Inglorion is left out, but if you've never read the books, why would you care? You won't miss him. But people like us will.The same I think would be true with the Silmarillion. I don't think that taking works like these and condensing them would ever do justice to this story. The Peter Jackson movie promises to be a movie that shall please most viewers, just not the ones that know the difference.

[Inoldonil]

Still, I feel it's important to realize or remember that the Lord of the Rings has sold more copies world wide than any other book since The Bible, so it's not as though we're a small audience. The closer you get to the original story, then, the closer you'll get to the story's success, as long as you know how to make good movies.

[lindil]

Gildor and the meeting in the shirewoods is cut!!!!
That is mighty disappointing. It is one of my favorite scenes.

I agree that the movie / miniseries etc. if ever made would be done to first and foremost make money.
and it is true but ironic that the producers PJ included don't care a fig what the readers of JRRT for decades think.
Better to leave the Silm alone than butcher it.

Imagine what would be done to luthien if Arwen Xenastar is any example.
How are you going to convey the light of Aman in melian's face?

[Sister Golden Hair]

I won't say that I have never seen a movie about the bible that I didn't like, and I am not saying I will not like LOTRs. I am just saying that it will not be as great as the book is. To people that have not read the books, it will probably be the best movie ever. Movies like this are not made for fans of the books, although the movie itself is based on that story. This story is complicated, and to do it justice would require a massive budget. The fact that the PJ movie is not animated is cause for a higher budget and would require more computer technology, and special effects. It has to be a challenge to bring such a fantasy story to life like this one.. An expensive movie making budget means taking a chance on making that money back, a profit, or breaking even. In order to achieve that, a movie would have to appeal to the general public, not the hard core readers of the story. IMHO.

[lindil]

PJ could have made the LotR very much like the book, he has a gauranteed audience and he knows it. He chose to make the [to my mind] needless alterations . The Silm would undoubtedly share the same or worse fate. But if the LotR movie goes well , they will want to film everything they can. I would not be suprised to see a kids Farmer giles and Smith.

[Xivigg]

if a film cost you hundreth of million $$$ you most likely would want your money back with a little bonus

how would you do that ?? addapt the stories to attract as much people as possible.

it's sad but true

[Shanamir Duntak]

indeed... sad but true.

[Finmandos12]

Hey Shanamir when did you start coming here? I haven't been here since May, and you weren't here then. How did you get 937 posts so quick?

[Xivigg]

Shanamir is the first Lord

he was here well before you getting is lordship before you find this board

but

he was very busy with school work and hadn't had that much time to post during the last years

[Shanamir Duntak]

Nicely said Xivigg... indeed, I found the board last summer, at this time, I was coming here often. Then school started back, I didn't have as much time on my hands. Now it's summer time again, got lots of time.