I heard Gil Galad isn't Fingon's son?

[Captain Stern]

I've heard a few of you say that this was a mistake made by Christopher Tolien? So who's son is he and where does it say this?

thanks

[Tar Elenion]

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This is intended to be a 'primary world' history of the parentage of Orodreth and Gil-galad and related matters.
It seems that Orodreth is the son of Finarfin (who was earlier named Finrod), third son (and fifth child) of Finwe, up through 1958. He appears as such in the 'Annals of Aman' (HoME 10), the 'Later Quenta Silmarillion (I)' (HoME 10 and 11), and the 'Grey Annals' (HoME 11). These were initially written in ca. 1950-1952. Corrections and
emendations were made to these manuscripts and amanuensis typescripts, including these changes, were made in 1958. Finarfin in these typescripts is still called Finrod and Finrod Felagund is named Inglor.
Later JRRT begins to emend these typescripts with changes including the names of Finrod and Inglor to Finarfin and Finrod and indications of the removal of Orodreth from among Finarfin's children. Finarfin is named Arafinwe in the earlier versions of 'Finwe and Miriel' which are
dated to 1958 or earlier. The first unaltered appearence of the name: Finarfin (or Finarphin) is in the later versions of 'Finwe and Miriel' and the 'Later Quenta Silmarillion (II)' dated to 1959 (or later); while Finrod (for previously Inglor) is in the 'Athrabeth' also dated to 1959 (or later). In the 'Elessar' essay (UT) Galadriel refers to
herself as the last of Finrod's children, and names Angrod, Aegnor and Felagund as the others but fails to mention Orodreth, who CT notes was removed and placed a generation down.
Gil-galad first appears as a Feanorian (of unknown descent) in the Fall of Numenor (II) (HoME 5). This is dated to not later than 1937. In the original (I) versions of Many Meetings/Council of Elrond (At Rivendell, HoME VI), dated to December 1938, Elrond states that Gil-galad is a
descendant of Feanor (which ties in with the original FNII). On an 'isolated' sheet associated with (III) version Gil-galad is said to be son of 'Fin...' where the writing is illegible (CT notes that the fourth letter is _possibly_ an 'r' but the name is definitely not Finrod), this is struck out and 'Inglor?' is written in, this possibly dates to 1939 or early 1940 (HoME VII). Though marked with a query this agrees with the (III) version which has Gil-galad as son of Felagund seemingly through its association with the new ending to the Fall of Numenor II which was revised at the time of the writing of the third version of the Council of Elrond. In an early alteration to the Quenta
Silmarillion text of HoME V, Felagund is mentioned as having a wife (Meril) and their son is Gil-galad. In the T3 version of the Tale of Years (of the Second Age) Gil-galad is the son of Felagund and this is also the case with 'Of the Rings of Power'. 'RoP' was extant (in versions) by 1948 (L. 115), while the 'T3' version is no later than August of '50 and was likely written in 1949 (PoME).

At this point it seems that we have Orodreth as the son of Finarfin (or rather Finrod) through 1958. Gil-galad is a Feanorian from ca. 1937 through ca. 1939. Gil-galad is the son of Finrod (or rather Inglor) Felagund from ca. 1940 until ca. 1949.

In the Gray Annals it is said that Felagund had no wife and this is consistant with Annals of Aman and the Later Quenta Silmarillion. That Felagund had no wife is maintained up until Dec. 1959.

In a 'pencilled note' on the amanuensis typescript of the Grey Annals Fingon is noted as the father of Gil-galad.

In a note (likely dated to Dec. 1959) to the genealogies (Finrod) Felagund is again given a son, Artanaro Rhodothir, otherwise known as Orodreth father of Finduilas. Later JRRT noted that Finrod had no child and had left his wife in Aman. At this point Orodreth is now made the
son of Angrod (and renamed Artaresto) (PoME).

Now referring back to the 'Elessar' essay which must date from the time before 'Inglor' became 'Finrod' as Finrod (ie Finarfin) is her father but after or about the time Orodreth is made her nephew. That would tend to date the Elessar essay to late 1959 or 1960 (which may indicate
that the 'Athrabeth' should be dated into 1960 as it seems that name Finrod was not given to Inglor until after Orodreth had been removed as his brother).

In 'Aldarion and Erendis' Gil-galad is named 'Finellach Gil-galad of the House of Finarfin'. In UT CT dates this work to 1965, though in PoME he says this might be dated to 1960. JRRT notes this work as 'nearly complete' in September of 1965 (L. 276). It seems that this must be later than the 'Elessar' story (as Finarfin is used for
Finrod). But it is not impossible that Finarfin maintained the name Finrod for a time as well before it was decided that Felagund should receive it. Gil-galad is also called Finellach the 'Description of the Island of Numenor'.

It is not noted what parentage Gil-galad had as 'Finellach', though CT notes this preceded by some time the making of Gil-galad into the son of Orodreth, which happened in August of 1965 when 'scribbled at great
speed' a note, suggesting that Gil-galad (here named Rodnor/Artanaro) should be the son Orodreth (Artaresto), son of Angrod, was written.

In the Elessar essay Celebrimbor is noted as a jewel smith of Gondolin, though in a note JRRT wrote against that essay he says it would be better to make Celebrimbor a descendant of Feanor (PoME). This happened with the Second Edition of RotK (1966). JRRT noted in one of his copies of this edition that Celebrimbor had grown to love Finrod and his
(unnamed) wife while dwelling s refugee in Nargothrond.

In the 1968 Shibboleth of Feanor, Orodreth is noted as 'Artaher' the son of Angarato (Angrod) and Eldalote. Gil-galad (Ereinion) is referred to with the Finarfinians and in a footnote is said to be the son of Artaher.

Orodreth is son of Finarfin until (it seems) 1959. Towards the end of 1959 he is made the son of Finrod Felagund. But this is then emended to the son of Angrod, since Finrod had no wife. However in an undated note on a 1966 copy of RotK Finrod is said to have a wife (in Nargothrond). In the Shibboleth there is no mention of his having a wife. Through the 1950's Gil-galad was no longer Finrod's son as Finrod had no wife, and he was noted as the son of Fingon on the 1958 typescript. Gil-galad returns to being a Finarfinian in the '60's (possibly as late as 1965
or as early as 1960). But who was his father considered to be in the Aldarion and Erendis essay, before he was made the son of Orodreth? We only have him being of the 'House of Finarfin'. When was the note made on the Second Edition of RotK that suggests Finrod did have a wife in exile? What was Gil-galad's lineage when he was descended from Feanor?


Tar-Elenion

--
He is a warrior and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.

[Inoldonil]

I cannot hope to give a better answer than Elenion, I don't pretend to possess such excellent knowledge about the history of the parentage of Gil-galad! Yet I think a short summary of the final idea might help. This is what I said on the 24th of June:

The parentage of Gil-Galad[/i] in the Shibboleth of Fëanor of The Peoples of Middle-earth : The name of Angrod's son (still retaining the identity of 'Orodreth') was then changed from Artanáro to Artaresto. In an isolated note found with the genealogies, scribbled at great speed but nonetheless dated, August 1965, my father suggested that the best solution to the problem of Gil-galad's parentage was to find him in 'the son of Orodreth', who is here given the Quenya name of Artaresto, and continued:

Finrod left his wife in Valinor and had no children in exile. Angrod's son was Artaresto, who was beloved by Finrod and escaped when Angrod was slain, and dwelt with Finrod. Finrod made him his 'steward' and he succeeded him in Nargothrond. His Sindarin name was [i] Rodreth (altered to Orodreth because of his love of the mountains) .. ..... His children were Finduilas and Artanáro = Rodnor later called Gil-galad. (Their mother was a Sindarin lady of the North. She called her son Gil-galad.) Rodnor Gil-galad escaped and eventually came to Sirion's Mouth and was King of the Noldor there.

The words that I cannot read contain apparently a preposition and a proper name, and this latter could be Faroth (the High Faroth west of the river Narog). - In the last of the genealogical tables Artanáro (Rodnor) called Gil-galad appears, with the note that 'he escaped and dwelt at SÃ*rion's Mouth'. The only further change was the rejection of the name Artaresto and its replacement by Artaher, Sindarin Arothir . [reference to a note found elsewhere] ... The final genaology was:

I represent the genealogy crudely thus:

Angrod-------------------------Finrod
I
Artaher/Arothir [Orodreth]
I
Artanáro/Rodnor/Gil-galad

The passage continues: Since Finduilas remained without correction in the last of the genealogies as the daughter of Arothir, she became the sister of Gil-galad.

There can be no doubt that this was my father's last word on the subject; but nothing of this late and radically altered conception ever touched the existing narratives, and it was obviously impossible to introduce it into the published Silmarillion. It would nonetheless have been very much better to have left Gil-galad's parentage obscure.

The last part of this section of the book states Gil-galad as the son of Fingon was an ephemeral idea.

[lindil]

almost makes you long for the good ole days when he was the son of Fingon!

[Inoldonil]

You're on the Revised Silmarillion Council, are you? I never noticed your signature until now. I heard about you folks (Michael Martinez). How's the work going? Rather a difficult job, isn't it?

[KYOTE FIELDS]

WHAT ARE THESE ASIDES AND WHAT DO THEY MEAN?
'Annals of Aman' (HoME 10), the 'Later Quenta Silmarillion (I)' (HoME 10 and 11), and the 'Grey Annals' (HoME 11).

[Shanamir Duntak]

You know, caps locking so much doesn't help any.

Generally, applying to forums, boards, emails, websites, whatever, when you caps something, that means you are shouting.

here's an exemple:

Hey you... Hey-ho! HEY! What are you doing? I'm talking to you! STOP THAT M****!!!

etc.

So please, it's aggressive all those caps,

Thank you Kyote. :p

[Inoldonil]

The Annals of Aman, Later Quenta Silmarillion and Grey Annals are writings of his father's that Christopher Tolkien has published after his death in the History of Middle-earth (HoMe) Volumes 10 and 11, otherwise known as Morgoth's Ring and War of the Jewels, respectively.

[KYOTE FIELDS]

Sorry about the caps. I'm at work when I do all these things and since I'm in data processing everything I type is in caps. I'm in a hurry ususally and forget to take the caps off.
People tell me I'm loud and noisy anyways.....

[Shanamir Duntak]

:)