Perception of Gandalf the White

[Kirinki54]

And with that they passed into the House; and as they went towards the rooms where the sick were tended Gandalf told of the deeds of Êowyn and Meriadoc. 'For,' he said, 'long have I stood by them and at first they spoke much in their dreaming, before they sank into the deadly darkness. Also it is given to me to see many things far off.'

Thus spoke Gandalf in the Houses of Healing. I have never really thought about his last statement. Is it evident in LotR that he used this power at any other time?

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Well, he did go up on the wall before first going into the Houses of Healing and take a "look," so to speak.

And under similar circumstances in Rivendell, as Gandalf the Grey, he told Frodo he had read his mind and memory -- a much more limited kind of seeing.

[Utúllelyo]

'Also it is given to me to see many things far off.'

I think it might not be so much a usage of power but a insight that he has been given, and uses quite naturaly. In a way that an eagle uses its sight to see things far off, it doesnt neccesarily use it , but it is a part of its nature. Simply a part of being Gandalf, and even more so, Gandalf the white.

Also in the very beggining he predicts that Gollum has some important roll yet to play in the end. But that may be less in-sight than the kind of perspective that you are speaking of.

[Keith K]

Didn't Gandalf percieve that Frodo was in trouble on Amon Hen when Frodo used the Ring? I'm not sure where Gandalf was at the time, perhaps in Lorien, but he was not within visual range as he was in The Lady of Ithilein's example. Also, he was able to contest Sauron momentarily before the Dark Lord 'traced the call', and pinpointed Frodo's location.

[samwiselvr2008]

Keith K, I remember that happening to. I remember Gandalf saying that he could see things far off, but not close at hand. I think, but I'm not 100% sher, that he also said that what he saw far of, was a little blury.

[Khamûl]

from The Return of the King

As if to his eyes some sudden vision had been given, Gandalf stirred; and he turned, looking back north where the skies were pale and clear.During the battle of The Field of Cormallen, Gandalf turns and cries out that the eagles are coming. I think that he has moments where he can see things that other people can't or when things suddenly become clear. Sometimes this is a physical thing, but sometimes it's more of a premonition or such. I say that it only happens sometimes because there are times when Tolkien says that something was out of the sight of all save Legolas. That's just what I think anyway.

[Nurvingiel]

So were Gandalf's powers enhanced when he became Gandalf the White? Did he "go up a level"? Did he gain new powers all together? Or did he "take over" Saruman's powers, sice he effectively replaced him in the council?

[BeardofPants]

I would tend towards the level up; I'm pretty sure he became more powerful than Saruman ever was.

[Nunc]

The other thing to remember about Gandalf of course, especially in relation to him "reading minds and memories", is that before he came to Middle Earth he was Olorin, and spent much time in Lorien (in Aman), where he influenced other people's dreams/thoughts... Those who are Qenya enthusiasts will recognise the stem "olo" as being related to dreams.

I cannot recall atm where this info is... It is all there. Somewhere.

(Maybe I should change my handle to Pippin Took - beginning to sound as dense as he. :rolleyes: )

[The Lady of Ithilien]

So were Gandalf's powers enhanced when he became Gandalf the White? Did he "go up a level"? Did he gain new powers all together? Or did he "take over" Saruman's powers, sice he effectively replaced him in the council?Yes, I think his powers were enhanced then. There was another episode of long-distance seeing I couldn't quite recall at first but finally did: it's when he meets up with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli on the fringes of Fangorn.He rose and gazed out eastward, shading his eyes, as if he saw things far away that none of them could see. Then he shook his head. 'No,' he said in a soft voice, 'it has gone beyond our reach. Of that at least let us be glad. We can no longer be tempted to use the Ring. We must go down to face a peril near despair, yet that deadly peril is removed.Here's Gandalf gazing eastward, "shading his eyes," while Saruman, trapped in technology, is forced to use a Palantir to see what's going on at a distance. The one still feels the pull of the Ring but is beyond its grasp, the other is trapped by Sauron.

Gandalf's perception doesn't seem to always have worked, though: not long after that meeting in Fangorn, during the ride of the Rohirrim to the Fords of Isen, Gandalf is forced to ask Legolas what he sees in the "darkness brooding about the feet of the Misty Mountains. . . ."

[Nurvingiel]

Maybe he senses things, as opposed to physically seeing them like Legolas. Maybe he can perceive great powers in his mind, and contend or communicate with them if he has to. Do you think he became telepathic?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Maybe he senses things, as opposed to physically seeing them like Legolas. Maybe he can perceive great powers in his mind, and contend or communicate with them if he has to. Do you think he became telepathic? He does speak with Galadriel, Celeborn and Elrond for several hours, without any of them uttering a sound, before their parting on their way home from Arwen's wedding. They were looking into each others minds, and shared thoughts.

[Nurvingiel]

:deeply impressed: I will tap into your obviously large well of knowledge... Who else was telepathic? Was Saruman or Radaghast? Could some other high ranking elves be telepathic?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
:deeply impressed: I will tap into your obviously large well of knowledge... Who else was telepathic? Was Saruman or Radaghast? Could some other high ranking elves be telepathic? There's no reason to get impressed :p. I just remembered this scene from LotR when I read your post. I don't know about the others you mention.

More from LotR: Galadriel 'speaks' without words to each member of the Fellowship at their welcome in Lothlorien. In the movie, Celeborn says of Gandalf something like "I can no longer see him from afar", but in the book this (or something similar) is Galadriel's words.

[Nurvingiel]

Maybe Celeborn is telepathic, it's just that we don't get to see, since he doesn't have a very big part in the book.

[galadriel]

I think the Celeborn, Galadriel, and Elrond's "telepathy" is not so much a superpower deal as a close connection with the spiritual world. Even humans can communicate their feelings with glances, but as Elves, these three can silently communicate complex thoughts in a similar manner. If that makes any sense. Galadriel and Elrond's rings would probably enhance this ability.

[Nunc]

*nods*

I agree with that, galadriel.

[Agburanar]

I think Gandalf's 'far sight' is more an accurate sense than any mystic power. I also think he is very good at judging people's character and this is shown twice in the book when he discovers things through characters talking in their sleep. First with Frodo in Rivendell and then in the houses of healing as mentioned above.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Agburanar
I think Gandalf's 'far sight' is more an accurate sense than any mystic power. That's how I always saw it - not a magic power, but a really, really good knack for insight and intuition.

[Miranda]

Originally posted by galadriel
That's how I always saw it - not a magic power, but a really, really good knack for insight and intuition.

Totally- he's been around for a bit so its wisdom that makes him so insightful not some twilight zone intervention (although it is nice to think there could be that little edge of the unknown when it comes to his insight) Mx

[The Lady of Ithilien]

What good points about being in tune with the spiritual world and Gandalf's insight and intuition. I think that goes along nicely with Tolkien's emphasis on strength and qualities of character rather than using magic as a "trick."

Was just reading my favorite scene in the Lord of the Rings again (Strider and the hobbits on Weathertop, with five Nazgul at hand) and in this context Aragorn's words were interesting:Senses, too, there are other than sight or smell. We can feel their presence -- it troubled our hearts, as soon as we came here, and before we saw them; they feel ours more keenly. So it would seem that we, too, can "see" at a distance in Middle-earth, even if we're not aware of it.

Earlier he says of the wraiths of men who are enslaved by an Ainu that they don't perceive the world of light as we do but the shapes of living beings cast shadows in their minds, which can be destroyed only by the noon sun, and in the dark they can "perceive" (not "see" -- thus the appropriateness of the word here, 'perception') many things we cannot. And also they smell the blood of living beings; touch of the vampire there...but then, Sauron took the shape of a vampire at least once in the Elder Days -- like owner, like slave? And if these are powers given to them by the Ainu Sauron, likely they give some hint of the powers the Ainu Gandalf (especially Gandalf the White) would have had, too, though in a 'good' sense: he certainly could perceive the world of light, and perhaps he also could sense the shapes of living and undead things, and his perceptions were far greater than ours. Don't know about his sense of smell for blood, but he certainly had a nose for tobacco, mead, wine and places of good cheer. :)