Lurtz [Archive]

Lizra

11-16-2002, 11:38 PM

Hmmmm.....
Why I like Lurtz, by Lizra

Lurtz stands out in every scene he's in. His emergence is OOOOH!
He is a ill tempered killing machine right out of the ooze. He kills the orc trying to help him on his second or third breath, with bare hands. (Saruman smiles:p: ) When he girds up and paints the white hand on his face, well, I thought it was shivery cool! He's always snarling, his thighs are massive muscular pillars. Does his skin look like leather, or was he wearing leather? I hate him when he fires the arrows into Boromir though, isn't that cheating! The new scene, when he pulls out the dagger, licks the blood, all the while eyeballing Aragorn with glee....well...I think he gives one hairy evil eye! :eek: Armless, headless, bye, bye Lurtz! :)

Lanelf

11-16-2002, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by Lizra
Armless, headless, bye, bye Lurtz! :)
That's one of the things I don't like about him: that bit's just way too Monty Python for me.:rolleyes: I've just read way too much fanfiction.
Lanelf.

crickhollow

11-17-2002, 12:23 AM

It is true that the formula for a great film includes giving a face to the villain. Hence, the prominence of the cave troll in Moria, as well as Lurtz's appearance as the leader of the Fighting Uruk-Hai. Could this also be the reason for bringing Saruman to the foreground in FOTR and TTT?

Why do I [dis]like Lurtz, by crickhollow

after the unfortunate demise of repulsive little orc who was helping him to emerge from the ooze, Lurtz then marveled at the wonderous strength and power of his hand. In my opinion, PJ totally dropped the ball here, because obviously at this point Lurtz should have beat his massive chest with his fists, and let out a tarzan-like yell. Perhaps there's hope that this scene will appear in an extended extended special edition to be released bundled with the other two movies sometime in late 2004?

olsonm

11-17-2002, 12:27 AM

Lurtz was fairly accurate in terms of acting like an orc. They just wanted a high profile baddie they could kill off.

crickhollow

11-17-2002, 12:54 AM

which brings me to another question--

the orcs in the movie are much more animal-like than they are in the book. The ones in Moria warble and chatter in high pitched voices like jungle cannibles in a bad 1930s era movie.

Lurtz can only rasp out two lines: "Saruman!", and "Find the halflings!"

On the official website, when men, elves, hobbits and dwarves are all listed as "Peoples of Middle-Earth", orcs, and the uruk-hai are listed seperately under the category, "Creatures." (I assume Wargs will soon be added to that second list)

How will PJ account for the desire for power that the orcs who capture Frodo, and ones who try to steal it from Merry and Pipping (their names escape me at the moment) display, as well as the dialogue between the hobbits and the orcs?
PJ's orcs seem to me to be entirely incapable of intelligent speech.

BeardofPants

11-17-2002, 12:55 AM

Ah Lurtz. My favourite pet peeve. :rolleyes:

Lizra

11-17-2002, 01:15 AM

ah, come on, BoP! Tell us why you don't just "luv him" :D

olsonm

11-17-2002, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by crickhollow
PJ's orcs seem to me to be entirely incapable of intelligent speech. You seem to be completely ignoring Saruman's chief orc. "What orders from Mordor my lord?" "The trees are strong, their roots go deep." He seemed intelligent enough for the scenes you want to see.

BeardofPants

11-17-2002, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Lizra
ah, come on, BoP! Tell us why you don't just "luv him" :D

I wuvs him so much, I wants a giant tacky replica doll that I can sleep with, and wuv to death, and plant wet slobbery kisses all over his cutesy little ickle nosie wosie.

Good enough? :p

Lizra

11-17-2002, 01:28 AM

Yeah! With detachable arm and head! :)

Wayfarer

11-17-2002, 01:34 AM

I'm sorry, but I now have a mental picture. It's not pretty.

I think the reason they included lurtz is so they would have someone to kill who was more than a flunky.

BeardofPants

11-17-2002, 01:35 AM

I think that might freak ... er... might have freaked me out when I was a wee lass. :rolleyes: :eek:

(In response to Liz' post)

crickhollow

11-17-2002, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by olsonm
You seem to be completely ignoring Saruman's chief orc. "What orders from Mordor my lord?" "The trees are strong, their roots go deep." He seemed intelligent enough for the scenes you want to see. ah, very true. I'd forgotten that little staple-nosed creep.

Wayfarer

11-17-2002, 01:44 AM

I'm trying to decide whether BOP's fetish is for mud, things that hatch from eggs, armless meople, headless people, holes in the torso or corpses.

Nibs

11-17-2002, 01:53 AM

Just plain WRONG.

Nibs

11-17-2002, 01:56 AM

Oh, and Lurtz didn't bother me. I think he was a fairly solid character. After all, he helped make the Orcs look more than just things to be slain, as one may gather from all the other skirmishes.

BeardofPants

11-17-2002, 04:20 AM

That may be so, but I expected him (and the other uruks) to be a little bit more brighter than a mere grunt. I'm with Crick on this one: how (or perhaps that should be an "if") are they gonna portray the politics of the rivalry between the ork factions in TT when they've thus far been portrayed as literal grunts? I feel that they should have worried less about having a boss fight, and more about setting up the various ork factions with a bit more intelligence than snarling slimy gruntiness. :rolleyes:

BeardofPants

11-17-2002, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I'm trying to decide whether BOP's fetish is for mud, things that hatch from eggs, armless meople, headless people, holes in the torso or corpses.

Meople? :rolleyes:

Wrong on all counts. Classy LOTR merchandise of course. :rolleyes:

Sween

11-17-2002, 05:53 AM

Lurtz does work on many a level even if you consider the book. You defintally need a leader. otherwise the orcs would just look silly as they would apaear to have no leadership. It also give someone worthwhile to kill bormir and in turn someone for aragorn to kill (also allows him to save bormoir temporally so they get there touching parting moment)

also at the start of two towers the orcs to have a lot of argueements in many ways this does suggest that they have lost there leader. of all the changes i think it fits in seemlesly.

has this thread decended onto a debate on BoP turns on again?

scott100

11-17-2002, 07:03 AM

Ugluk and Grishnak come next if I remember rightly.

"Nothing for Mordor, nothing for poor Grishnak, Gollum..."

Faramir Took

11-18-2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by crickhollow
which brings me to another question--

the orcs in the movie are much more animal-like than they are in the book. The ones in Moria warble and chatter in high pitched voices like jungle cannibles in a bad 1930s era movie.

Lurtz can only rasp out two lines: "Saruman!", and "Find the halflings!"

On the official website, when men, elves, hobbits and dwarves are all listed as "Peoples of Middle-Earth", orcs, and the uruk-hai are listed seperately under the category, "Creatures." (I assume Wargs will soon be added to that second list)

How will PJ account for the desire for power that the orcs who capture Frodo, and ones who try to steal it from Merry and Pipping (their names escape me at the moment) display, as well as the dialogue between the hobbits and the orcs?
PJ's orcs seem to me to be entirely incapable of intelligent speech.

fyi crickhollow - the orcs in the book were Ugluk and grishnakh

Dunadan

11-18-2002, 06:09 PM

How can anyone complain about how they rendered the orcs? OK, their gait was a bit like a old man who's been at the cooking sherry, and they suffer from the same tactical deficiency as all Minions of Evil ("Now, make sure you attack the hero..er..enemy one-by-one. While you're waiting in line to be mashed, be sure to wave your weapon and grunt a lot.").

However, the attention to detail was fantastic, particularly the different sub-species; much more detail than in the book! Can't wait to see the Uruk-hai "chapter" in the next film.

Lurtz was great; I think we all have days when we feel like that. But the bit where Aragorn diced him up was tremendous. Gaun yersel big man! (You can tell I'm a boy, can't you?)

Miranda

11-18-2002, 06:14 PM

Aragorn mullering Lurtz was the one of the highlights of the whole damn film!!!! It was especially rewarding for all us girlies because old orc breath got his just deserts for beating up our dear little Boromir- sorry I'm surrounded by some Sean Bean fans and I'm under pain of death if I don't mention how much we love him!!! I thought it was fantastic when he was aiming the bow right in Boromir's face (before Aragorn comes in with all guns blazing). It really showed what heartless killers the forces of evil are and how they have no value for any form of life while the Fellowship are all fighting for eachother! Can't wait to see Grishnash (don't know how to spell) etc in the next film- although I'll probably have nightmares- I checked out a couple of the TTT books and nearly fainted. LOL. Mx

Wayfarer

11-18-2002, 09:53 PM

Grishnákh

cassiopeia

11-18-2002, 10:49 PM

Lurtz didn't bother me in the film, there were worse changes/additions than him. The part where he licks the blood of the knife sends shivers down my back. :eek: I thought the orcs were good - except in Moria where they climbed up the walls. :rolleyes:

BoP and Lurtz sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G :D

BeardofPants

11-19-2002, 01:31 AM

Damned straight.

Amandil

11-19-2002, 04:23 AM

In fact, I so ignored super-leader-orc boy that until I read this thread I forgot entirely that Lurtz was spectacularily killed at the end of the movie. Somehow I don't recall the name "Lurtz" being mentioned either. Maybe they needed a name for the action figure...

Are our minds so weak that we can't watch a film without a personified (or perhaps incarnated) antagonist? Somehow I think the mere spiritual presence of Sauron and hordes of orcs (good example from the movie: the orcs swarming like beetles in Moria) was way more chilling in the books, than Sauron in plate armour and Lurtz with his stupid-ass "scimitar" in the movies.

Dunadan

11-19-2002, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by Amandil
Are our minds so weak that we can't watch a film without a personified (or perhaps incarnated) antagonist? Somehow I think the mere spiritual presence of Sauron and hordes of orcs (good example from the movie: the orcs swarming like beetles in Moria) was way more chilling in the books, than Sauron in plate armour and Lurtz with his stupid-ass "scimitar" in the movies.
In a word, yes.

Not yours, of course, but the general movie-going public's.

Sween

11-19-2002, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Amandil
In fact, I so ignored super-leader-orc boy that until I read this thread I forgot entirely that Lurtz was spectacularily killed at the end of the movie. Somehow I don't recall the name "Lurtz" being mentioned either. Maybe they needed a name for the action figure...

Are our minds so weak that we can't watch a film without a personified (or perhaps incarnated) antagonist? Somehow I think the mere spiritual presence of Sauron and hordes of orcs (good example from the movie: the orcs swarming like beetles in Moria) was way more chilling in the books, than Sauron in plate armour and Lurtz with his stupid-ass "scimitar" in the movies.

how have you allready got a custome signature?

Amandil

11-20-2002, 04:39 PM

Doh! -- someone noticed!

I've been a mooter for a year, not just an active one. Like life itself, my custom signature is a gift.

Lollypopgurl

11-20-2002, 08:51 PM

I like Lurtz.:D

The licking the knife thing was gross but cool.

Amandil

11-21-2002, 04:35 AM

Nice quotation, Lolypopgurl. You realize Lurtz is an occasion of tampering with what Tolkien did, eh?

Millane

11-21-2002, 09:24 AM

sorry havent been keeping up with the thread im on holidays in Hong Kong... im at the airport at the moment and i still found some time to moot...

anyways back to lurtz... i reckoned he was a great imput... apart from looking the uruk hai type he got the best punch in the movie... right in aragorns head... hehehehe

anyways better head off.

jerseydevil

11-25-2002, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Amandil
Doh! -- someone noticed!

I've been a mooter for a year, not just an active one. Like life itself, my custom signature is a gift.
I had noticed - I also noticed how many (or should I say few) posts you have and how long you have been here. I figured it might have been Hobbit's doing. :D

Lurtz was stupid. First I find it funny that orcs - as described by Tolkien - would kill each other given the chance; yet when Lurtz is "born" and he kills the one orc - Saruman holds the other two back from saving him and they have that stupid look on their face of actually caring. If Jackson had followed the mannerisms of the orcs as described by Tolkien - then the orcs would have been cheering at seeing Lurtz kill him. Another example of Jackson getting the characterisation wrong.

Also - there were leaders of the orcs that came from Isengard - as has been stated. Where is Grishnákh and Ugluk? They weren't good enough for Jackson? There was no build up so far that there are Mordor orcs and Isengard orcs - another shortcoming to the movie.

And Lurtz was never mentioned by name in the movie - he was purely an invention to sell an action figure.

Jackson dumbed down the movie.

Amandil

11-25-2002, 04:37 PM

I had noticed - I also noticed how many (or should I say few) posts you have and how long you have been here. I figured it might have been Hobbit's doing.

No, not Hobbit. I didn't even notice that I had a custom signature until somebody else pointed it out. Sort of a fitting signature, in a way (I should say, from a particular point of view), eh?

Can't agree more with you, jersey devil, on Lurtz. Notice how all the people who "like" Lurtz tend to have, um, how shall I say it, not very considered opinions?

Lizra

11-25-2002, 04:45 PM

Oh, I considered my opinion , whatever that means! :rolleyes:

I was looking at the new action figures at Toy-r-Us, They had Merry and Pippen paired with Ugluk and Grishnakh, I can't remember who was with who. The two orcs looked VERRRY hideous! Different from Lurtzy boy, and different from each other. I'm sure they will be plenty icky! :eek:

Cirdan

11-25-2002, 06:07 PM

Lizra, do you remember the 80's song by Julie Brown: "I like 'em Big and Stupid"":)

Lurtz is the one commander sent to "find the halflings", and since Ugluk and Grishnakh are now subordinated we must hope the chain of command is strong in Orcs (not likely).

They should have shown a Dunland woman being taken for breeding by Saruman's Orcs. That is how I read Tolkien's origin of the Uruk-hai as told by Treebeard.

jerseydevil

11-25-2002, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Cirdan
Lizra, do you remember the 80's song by Julie Brown: "I like 'em Big and Stupid"":)

Lurtz is the one commander sent to "find the halflings", and since Ugluk and Grishnakh are now subordinated we must hope the chain of command is strong in Orcs (not likely).

They should have shown a Dunland woman being taken for breeding by Saruman's Orcs. That is how I read Tolkien's origin of the Uruk-hai as told by Treebeard.

Yeah - but the "love scenes" are reserved for Aragorn and Arwen. Also - having the Uruk-hai come about as it's portrayed in the book wouldn't have the gross out factor that Jackson's version does. Remember - it's an action movie.

Lizra

11-25-2002, 07:10 PM

I just like em BIG! :)
I thought Lurtz was sent to "Find the half legs!"

Cirdan

11-25-2002, 08:00 PM

heh heh... half legs.:)

JD, isn't the thought of a woman squeezing out an orc disgusting enough? It is odd in the film that they start out full grown and have the powers of speech, and even know what is a halfing.

jerseydevil

11-25-2002, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Cirdan
heh heh... half legs.:)

JD, isn't the thought of a woman squeezing out an orc disgusting enough? It is odd in the film that they start out full grown and have the powers of speech, and even know what is a halfing.
Yes - I thought that was strange too. Imagine how smart Lurtz would be if he got to live longer than a couple of weeks. :)

Amandil

11-25-2002, 08:25 PM

Okay Lizra, I guess I shouldn't have said "tend to have...not very considered opinions." Perhaps I should have said that the people who say they like Lurtz seem not to have considered opinions. It seems to me, at any rate, that their affinity for Lurtz is more befitting an airhead. But even that's too strong-a-language. Please don't take this is as a flame. I'm struggling for tact. Lets just say I'd be pleased to see someone give a reasoned defence of Lurtz's inclusion in the film.

Lizra

11-25-2002, 10:59 PM

Well, If I had made the film, I wouldn't have made a "Lurtz", but "he's there"! :) So, for what it's worth, he was fun for me. The way he stands when Saruman is admiring his slimy, beefy, handiwork, his posture, is almost little boyish. When he admired his "squeezing hand" I really sniggered! :D And of course, this new bit where he licks the knife like "Nah nah na nah na", big stupid and with attitude! YEAH!

"LURTZ" That name is so dumb. It makes me think of a car in a haunted house ride at the kiddie carnival. Who coined that name anyway. Someone said it came from a game. We should have a "give Lurtz a better name" contest. Hmmmm

Amandil

11-26-2002, 04:18 AM

Here's my better name for Lurtz: "Bad Idea."

I don't know if you've given a reasoned defence of Lurtz's inclusion in the film, but you do certainly come accross as "gushing." I can't even tell if you're being entirely facetious. I'm just glad I didn't get in trouble for suggesting an affinity to airheads. It is an out-of-date slam, after all.

Hum de hum!:o

iowyth

11-26-2002, 05:58 AM

There were a lot of changes in the movie I disliked, but Lurtz was one thing I liked. He may not have said much, but he didn't seem all that dum to me. He was an incredibly adept fighter... he must have been to hold off Aragorn that long. Aragorn just whipped the other Uruks with one sword thrust. He was ugly in a very intense and slightly sexy way. And he personified the evil and strength of the Uruks very well.

I will never get used to his head getting whipped off though. Makes me jump every time and I've watched the movie about 30 times. No.... I will never be prepared for that.

Amandil

11-26-2002, 06:51 AM

Maybe only Human Females like Lurtz...

Lizra

11-26-2002, 08:47 AM

Come to think of it, he was the most attractive (ha! now there's a statment we can all laugh at! :D ) of the orcs. Planned that way I'm sure. They know what they're doing! Boyish, orcish charm? His "behind" was excellent! :D oh geez, this is too funny....

BeardofPants

11-26-2002, 02:34 PM

Lizra, stop winding Amandil up. :D

Lizra

11-26-2002, 04:05 PM

Sorry! The old ways die hard! :)

Amandil

11-26-2002, 04:28 PM

lol, are you winding me up?! So that's how it works around here...:D

Lizra

11-26-2002, 04:57 PM

She's just kidding Amandil! (I do love to flirt :o) Who will be the "Lurtz" of TTT. Grima? Surely there won't be a "new" made up baddie. There's Gollum (not evil bad, pathetic bad), Grishnahk, Ugluk, Grima, and Saruman. Of course, the evil "Eye", the flying Nazgul, and armies of orcs wargs and bad men! :eek: Sounds like too many bad guys this time out! Maybe there will be no "new" characters.

Dunadan

11-26-2002, 06:44 PM

I'm a human male, and I think Lurtz was groovy. You couldn't get away with a film where the protagonists are supposedly being pursued by the enemy and not actually show the enemy at all. And it foregrounds the stuff about Saruman crossing "orcs with goblin men" (sic). And he gets sliced and diced in a deeply satisfactory manner.