Is Osama Bin Laden alive?

[jerseydevil]

A new audio tape just aired on Al Jazeera supposedly from Osama Bin Laden. It had him praising the attacks on Bali, Russia, the tanker, etc.


A voice purported to be Osama bin Laden praised terrorist strikes in Bali and Moscow and threatened Western nations over any attack on Iraq in an audiotape broadcast today by Al-Jazeera television.


Do you think Osama is alive?
Are there any reasons for the fact that before it was always video and now it's only audio?
Do you think the tapes are legitimate?
Any ideas where he might be?

[Treebeard's apprentice]

Even if he is still alive, he's probably scared out of his mind.

[IronParrot]

Regardless of whether he's alive or not, it takes a lot more than one man to carry out a terrorist attack, and it takes a lot more than his death to prevent one.

[Shadowfax]

I think he's dead and that those tapes are just people playing around, you know, other terrorists or whatever trying to scare us or something. Yeah, I really do think he's dead.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by IronParrot
Regardless of whether he's alive or not, it takes a lot more than one man to carry out a terrorist attack, and it takes a lot more than his death to prevent one.

Yes I agree. But I also think if it was confirmed that he was dead it might hurt Al Qaeda's morale. I think he may be dead and they're using the tapes to make it seem, not only to us - but to the Al Qaeda foot soldiers, that he is still alive.

[Draken]

If his being alive wasn't important to them, why the constant need to "prove" it? It does seem odd that the video messages have been replaced by an audio one - presumably easier to fake.

Struck me that as someone who claimed he wished to die a martyr it's quite remarkable that he failed to do so while fighting the Soviets. Maybe he has finally got his wish...but if he was anywhere near a daisycutter impact we'll never find a shred of evidence I'm afraid!

[markedel]

Sure he's alive, but what good his death does I'm not sure. It might be rough justice of sorts, but it won't stop terrorism.

[Silverstripe]

Originally posted by markedel
Sure he's alive, but what good his death does I'm not sure. It might be rough justice of sorts, but it won't stop terrorism.

I wasn't sure, but now I do think he's alive. I know his death won't stop terrorism, but it's important to send the message that no one can get away with terrorism, anywhere.

[Sween]

i would love him to be alive then he could be taken and tried like the scum he is. dieing the best thing that could happen to him sure he would love to die a marter to the cause unfortnally i dont think we have any intention of letting him

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Draken
Struck me that as someone who claimed he wished to die a martyr it's quite remarkable that he failed to do so while fighting the Soviets. Maybe he has finally got his wish...but if he was anywhere near a daisycutter impact we'll never find a shred of evidence I'm afraid!
Like most of his ilk, he seems to prefer that others do the martyrdom thing for him.

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Sween
i would love him to be alive then he could be taken and tried like the scum he is. dieing the best thing that could happen to him sure he would love to die a marter to the cause unfortnally i dont think we have any intention of letting him


I don't think that a trial would be a good idea. We'd have to be fair and Osama could make a mockery of our judicial system. Worse yet, he would be able to communicate publicly with all of his operatives through publicity, maybe even inspiring others.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone here said they were Osama?

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
wouldn't it be funny if someone here said they were Osama? 'funny' isn't the word that comes to my mind. How about stupid, crass, and tasteless?

[Silverstripe]

Originally posted by crickhollow
'funny' isn't the word that comes to my mind. How about stupid, crass, and tasteless?

I agree, crickhollow -- but I wouldn't be surprised if someone did.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
I don't think that a trial would be a good idea. We'd have to be fair and Osama could make a mockery of our judicial system. Worse yet, he would be able to communicate publicly with all of his operatives through publicity, maybe even inspiring others.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone here said they were Osama?

so just a lovely execution. i beg that he does acctually deserve a trail by law (which i would hope the country that has set its sights on righting wrongs sticks to). But what would the charges be? he didnt personally comitt these crimes did he now? so what would he get conspiring? hardly a life sentance is it?

would the american people really be just happy with him been killed my grandad allways saidof hittler he wished he had been taken alive so he could of got the pleasure of maybe one day spitting in his face like the scum he was.

Off topic someone i work with was trying to convince me that sadam is worse than hittler :confused:

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sween
so just a lovely execution. i beg that he does acctually deserve a trail by law (which i would hope the country that has set its sights on righting wrongs sticks to). But what would the charges be? he didnt personally comitt these crimes did he now? so what would he get conspiring? hardly a life sentance is it?

would the american people really be just happy with him been killed my grandad allways saidof hittler he wished he had been taken alive so he could of got the pleasure of maybe one day spitting in his face like the scum he was.

Off topic someone i work with was trying to convince me that sadam is worse than hittler :confused:
Most people in the US support the old fashioned method for Osama Bin Laden - Drawing and Quartering. Then taking his head and putting it on display at Ground Zero - stuck on top of one of the Twin Tower beams. Little morbid - but it get's it's message across. No one seems to really want to give him the benefit of a trial. He'll make a mockery of our judicial system or take advantage of our freedoms.

Who would you get to represent him during a trial? who would want to? I think it would be suicide for any lawyer to defend Osama Bin Laden on American soil.

[Sween]

ill defend him with my inepitude and complete wanting him to get killed ill see he gets the cahir even if the only charge you guys can make ne thing stick to is un paid parking fines.

i am affraid JD that i am a strong believer if you are gonna have freedoms that you have to afford them to your enemy. The world is not 1 rule for one and another rule for another or at least it shouldn. Now if the charges he is facing is against the US i think its US business so your free to do what your law permits. Im sure one of the worst sentances would be to send him to a medium security prision where he would be free to converse with all his US cellmates. May i suggest a prision in new york or just for the pain value texas?

[Silverstripe]

I think we may just kill him when we find him. What if we took him to prison and his people managed to break him out? They would probably kill more Americans in the process! Although it might be fitting to keep him in prison for a little while -- just long enough to tell Al Qaeda how helpful he was being, how much information he was giving us ...
American prisons are much too nice for him, though. If he were somewhere where "cruel and unusual punishment" were allowed (that did not support him), it might be different.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Silverstripe
If he were somewhere where "cruel and unusual punishment" were allowed (that did not support him), it might be different.
Why do you think we let other countries question a lot of the Al Qaeda prisoners. :) Middle Eastern countries' hands aren't as tied on how they get people to talk as the US is.

And Sween I agree with you - I'm just saying what most people would like to see happen. But there are currently arguments saying that the snipers aren't going ot be able to get a fair trial - so how do you expect Osama to get one?

I also agree that an American prison - as you said in NY - might not be a bad idea. A few times in the shower, a few head beatings, a few "accidents". I'm sure the guards and Americans would look the other way. I can almost guarantee that he would not make it out of an American prison alive.

[Sween]

Originally posted by jerseydevil

I also agree that an American prison - as you said in NY - might not be a bad idea. A few times in the shower, a few head beatings, a few "accidents". I'm sure the guards and Americans would look the other way. I can almost guarantee that he would not make it out of an American prison alive.

oh but i would hope that they beat him to just an inch of his life everyday we want him to suffer like the dog he is (for many a year) they could also laugh at the size of his *ahem* everyday next to all those big black men :p

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Do you think Osama is alive?
Are there any reasons for the fact that before it was always video and now it's only audio?
Do you think the tapes are legitimate?
Any ideas where he might be?

Of couse he is still alive (at lease we have to presume he is)

They've used audio before.

They have to be treat as legit.......there is no proof that they are not.

He's not in my house........I know that for sure. As a second guess I'd say in Pakistan. On the premise that Pakistan has a large Al Queada following and they are also a nuclear power.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

From what was said in the online news, it looks as though the voice may have matched, and since apparently he made reference to recent events, including the hostage-taking in Moscow and the attack in Bali, he's alive somewhere. The Israeli security people at DEBKAfile speculate that video wasn't shown because he may have disguised himself and didn't want to give that away.

He surfaced just in time, didn't he, to take the heat for any new terrorist action, rather than it coming back on Saddam Hussein. The timing can't be accidental. Wherever he is, it's with Saddam's assistance and protection, I'll bet.

President Bush was right: this war is going to be long and very difficult as we do the absolutely necessary work needed to uproot this twisted, dirty mess of undercover alliances and cells throughout the world once and for all.

[isthatbad!]

not only is he alive, but he is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and your children.

[Coney]

Originally posted by isthatbad!
not only is he alive, but he is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and your children.

So that's who's under my bed.........all this time I thought it was a hairy Elvis:rolleyes:

[galadriel88]

I think he's still alive, hiding in some cave somewhere with food, water, his most trusted advisors and plenty of guards disguised as common shepherds and farmers.
As for him wanting to die as a martyr - I think it's complete rubbish. That and him being so totally devoted to Islam.... I sincerely believe that he is simply a power-hungry menace who uses religion as justification for his actions. He's putting on a show.
I think the audio is an imposter pretending to be him, making us consider the possibility of him being dead.
When he's found, he should of course be given a "fair trial", where whoever represents him just gets up there and makes no defense whatsoever. Nowhere in the laws of the judicial system does it say that your lawyer has to actually make the jury think you're innocent. That would usually just be bad business, but in this case who would want to do a good job of representing him? He should then be publicly humiliated and killed in the worst way allowed by the law.

[jerseydevil]

Well there was a supposed 6 page letter released from Al Qaeda to Al Jazeera - in addition to demanding the US to stay out of the affairs of Chechnya/Russia, and Palestians/Israelis - they are now telling Americans to convert to Islam.


Al-Jazeera: Al Qaeda issues new threat (http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/16/alqaeda.threat/index.html)
Fouda noted that al Qaeda had previously placed the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf "holy lands" as the group's first priority. But now, he said, the Palestinian issue is its first priority.

Chechnya, Kashmir, the Philippines and the Iraqi government are also issues raised in the letter, Fouda said, which ends with a call for the American people to convert to Islam.

I guess I was right about this one - that they want to take over the world and won't be happy until everyone lives under what they believe. If the letter is authentic. Even if it's niot - it's still my belief they won't be happy until they "take over" the world with their beliefs.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I guess I was right about this one - that they want to take over the world and won't be happy until everyone lives under what they believe.

Sounds just like the Disney Corporation;)

Seriously.........these people are fanatics and until the world has proof that the ol' Binladin is dead then we must act/react as if he is alive and take any "messages", audio or otherwise, seriously.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Sounds just like the Disney Corporation;)

Walt Disney World is the greatest. Their animated movies have gone to cookie cutter crap (definitely not to the standards of Disney when he was a live.)


Seriously.........these people are fanatics and until the world has proof that the ol' Binladin is dead then we must act/react as if he is alive and take any "messages", audio or otherwise, seriously.

I agree with you. We must assume everything is authentic and that it is coming from him. Of course he's threatening my area again Washington is 3 hours south of me and New York is about 30- 40 miles north. The post office where the anthrax letters were processed is 20 miles from me and was the processing center for my mail. It's still closed down.

I was thinking of ways they can attack us - and if you think about all the places you're vulnerable - we wouldn't leave our house.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I was thinking of ways they can attack us - and if you think about all the places you're vulnerable - we wouldn't leave our house.

It's a terrifying reality isn't it?

Very off-subject I know but 3 yrs ago an IRA ammunition dump was discovered by the police not 18 miles from my home......they found the usual weapons (automatic rifles, machine guns, pistols etc) and enough semtex to level most of my home county:eek:

Yeesh what a world we live in:mad:

Edit:I'm probably way off on the 3yrs ago estimate........in hindsight it was probably a lot longer:rolleyes:

[jerseydevil]

Well the US government has come out and confirmed that they feel the tape is legitimate. Osama Bin Laden is still alive - at least at the moment the latest tape was recorded.

Assuming that the latest letter from Bin Laden is legimate too - how many people are going to convert to Islam as he has now told Americans to do? :rolleyes:

[Elvellon]

I too believe it is likely he is still alive. I agree that the likely reason for an audio message instead of a video one is simply because he changed is appearance and don’t want his cover exposed.

I doubt he had anything to do with the Moscow events; he is probably simply trying to capitalize on it. Typical of his kind.

[Radagast The Brown]

I'll answer to the first original question:

I can guess and say that I really don't think that Osama Bin Laden is dead. Not a chance. But, I can't know that.... almost no one can.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well the US government has come out and confirmed that they feel the tape is legitimate. Osama Bin Laden is still alive - at least at the moment the latest tape was recorded.

Not a real surprise (although certainly not good news):mad:

What worries me is that he can still so easily get a message to the media (and therefore to his followers). He must still have a really good network working for him (especially good if he is still hiding in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan).

Maybe that is why he used audio tape this time. Maybe it was recorded via telephone or similar?.:confused:

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Maybe that is why he used audio tape this time. Maybe it was recorded via telephone or similar?.:confused:

That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that. At least there is one good thing with that - it means that he is unable to possibly move freely. Although obviously that means that he can still get messages out to his forces like you said.

[Elvellon]

or the fact that he needs to preserve his cover may indicate he is not in a safe haven. He obviously doesn’t trust the locals.

[jerseydevil]

Last week the Swiss reported that they studied the latest Bin Laden tape and they're 55-60% sure that it's NOT him.

Is it better if we know what happened to him or if it's a mystery? Is it better if he's alive or dead? I think it's better if he's dead and the world knows it. For one thing he always went on that Allah will seek revenge on those that don't follow Allah's word. It would seem that if Osama can claim that Allah allowed 9/11 to occur - the west can claim that Allah allowed the US to take action against bin Laden for his diabolical act.

Unlike during the World Wars where we used the enemies own propaganda against them - it seems like in the Political Correct world we live in today that it is taboo to turn their religion around on them.

[Dunadan]

Am I the only one here who thinks it would be better for Bin Laden to remain alive?

If he was killed it would just turn him into a martyr for like-minded zealots. Look at what happened with Jesus...

The best thing would be for him to drift into obscurity and irrelevance, unable to settle anywhere and constantly on the run. His support will evaporate over time, assuming something sensible is done about Palestine.

Then, when he's in his 70s, he can be caught cashing his giro in Peckham and dragged before the courts, like a Nazi war criminal.

cheers

d.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Am I the only one here who thinks it would be better for Bin Laden to remain alive? If he was killed it would just turn him into a martyr for like-minded zealots. Which came first - Bin Laden or the zealots? The zealots, I think, and they will always be out there. The problem with the one currently using them for his own advantage, Osama Bin Laden, is that his money, family connections and his brain are dangerous to us: the twisted minds of the zealous nuts throughout the world (I mean, now they're blowing up movie houses in Bangladesh!) concentrate and magnify these strengths of his just as the curved edge of a bottle will concentrate sunlight and start a fire. His death would put an end to his money and his brain, intimidate his family connections into passiveness, and de-focus/defuse the zealots for the foreseeable future (there is a distinct disadvantage to having all your eggs in one basket, so to speak), and so it is devoutly to be wished for...at least from this quarter :)

As the quote from Mahatma Gandhi goes, "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence."

And also, nothing sensible is ever done about anything, ever. It's one of the Maxwell equations (Maxwell Smart, perhaps), or laws of thermodynamics or something....