Gwaihir = Lord of the Eagles?

[bmilder]

I had long thought that the "Lord of the Eagles" mentioned in the Hobbit was the same as Gwaihir the Windlord in LotR. However, when I got The Annotated Hobbit last summer, it changed my mind.

"Many Tolkien commentators have been tempted to equate the Lord of the Eagles in The Hobbit with Gwaihir, the Windlord, the eagle who rescues Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings. The evidence, however, is inconclusive, and one is left with the thought that if Tolkien had intended them to be the same, he would most likely have stated it."

I can't help agreeing with annotator Douglas Anderson that Tolkien would probably have mentioned it. For example, the Elvenking of the Hobbit is clearly stated to be the same person as Thranduil, but no such claim is made about Gwaihir/LotE.

And yet Robert Foster's Guide to Middle-earth states that the two are the same.

Thoughts?

[Shanamir Duntak]

Hum... should re-read the hobbit. But I'd tend to agree with Anderson.

[Turambar6]

I think that Tolkien does refer to Gwaihir as the Lord of the Eagles somwhere in LOTR so as far as I can see they must be the same.

[Incanus]

If it had been a different Gwaihir, Tolkien would have mentioned that it was the grandson or something of the Gwaihir in the Hobbit, but it doesn't, so I think that JRRT didn't mention it because it wasn't important to those who hadn't read the Hobbit, and those who had would remember the name and so would automatically associate the two references. If the rescue in the Hobbit had been directly important to the LotR story he would have mentioned it. Also, those who hadn't read the Hobbit wouldn't want it spoiled more than it is in the LotR (notice the Battle of 5 Armies and in fact most things from the Hobbit aren't mentioned in the LotR, only really the parts referring to the Ring itself)
Sorry if I babbled, but it's my opinion

[Ñólendil]

I thought it was common knowledge that the Lord of the Eagles from The Hobbit is the same as that in the Lord of the Rings. I'm sure there are many other proofs, but the following, illustrated by JRR Tolkien, was labeled 'Gwaihir the Birdlord' (http://fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/tolkien/birdlord.jpg)

[UnStashable]

This may be sorta off topic, but does anyone know what happened to thorondor, did he die in the war of wrath or did he go to valinor. Its also that if he lived wouldn't he still be the lord of eagles?

[Ñólendil]

He probably went to Valinor, for the Eagles came from there in the Second Age to Andor, before the Fall of that people and during their war with the Powers. As Gwaihir was descended from him, I imagine he came from Valinor in the beginning. Michael Martinez has supposed (in an e-mail conversation) that Gwaihir and his people were perhaps sent to Middle-earth in the Third Age to contest Sauron and help the Free Peoples, as Thorondor was in the First against Morgoth.

[Finmandos12]

Thorondor and the eagles of the 1st age were spirits sent by Manwe in the form of eagles not animal eagles. (I Don't know about Gwaihir and the eagles of the 3rd age.) I assume he, having served his purpose (defeating Morgoth) returned to Manwe.

[Ñólendil]

Whatever sort of blood Thorondor had in his veins (Maian indeed, most likely, that's what Tolkien said he thought), Gwaihir must have some share, as he is said in the Lord of the Rings (Volume III, Book VI) to be descended from him. Tolkien pointed this passage out as a pity, apparently he felt it went against the view that Thorondor was a Maia, but I don't understand that. Think of Melian and her innumerable descendants among Elves and (especially) Men!

[Finmandos12]

I wondered about that too, Inodonil

[Ñólendil]

I should correct myself, that picture was not of Gwaihir, for that part of the book (but I need to read The Hobbit again) does not include the Lord of the Eagles. The actual title Tolkien gave it was something like 'Bilbo woke up with the early sun in his eyes'. That 'title' I guess was from Rolozo Tolkien.