If Merry and Pippin had returned to the Shire

[IronParrot]

Having read the whole story, we, the readers, of course know that everything turns out all right at the end, the ways thing went.

But one crucial turning point that is perhaps overlooked is at the Council of Elrond, when Merry and Pippin join the Fellowship instead of return as messengers to the Shire. Did they make the right choice?

On one hand, you have the fact that by joining the Fellowship, they do eventually manage to involve the Ents in the whole thing, and indirectly, the Rohirrhim. And then there's how Merry saves Eowyn, and so on and so forth.

On the other hand, if they had gone back to the Shire earlier, they would have gotten word of its corruption, something that undoubtedly began by that time. (cf. Mirror of Galadriel, plus the fact that Saruman was already receiving Southfarthing weed by the time Merry and Pippin reached Isengard)

Okay, so I guess the military defeat of Isengard and the successful defense of Gondor perhaps necessitated the neglect of the Shire, in a way, but the other way around, the Shire could have been defended. However, one could argue that the Scouring of the Shire and the reconstruction afterwards marked a definite emotional growth in hobbit society, and certainly in Merry and Pippin. One could also say that even if the Shire was defended, it would eventually fall as the forces of Mordor swept the world - unless, of course, the Ring was destroyed in the meantime.

It all boils down to this: Just how significant a role did Merry and Pippin play in the War of the Ring?

[Artanis]

I think you have summed it up nicely, IronParrot. I just want to add Parth Galen. If Merry and Pip hadn't been there, the orcs would have chased and maybe captured Frodo and Sam instead. They had orders to bring halflings, but they didn't know there were four.

[Sween]

merry and pippins key role in the succes of the war of the ring is not when merry attacks the witch king or even when they rouse the ents. Its at Anom hem where things turn in favor of the fellowship (allways funny considering one of them died) Merry and Pippins role is to make Saurman and Sauron think they have the ring. Therefore hes not looking at his own land. He knew the name and race of the ringbearer but that its.

If they had terurned the quest would probably of failed.

[olsonm]

I don't know if Merry and Pippin would have made that much of a difference in the Shire if they hadn't gone to Rohan/Gondor. The Tooks and Brandybucks seemed to have simply closed their borders and I don't know if a pre-Fellowship Merry and Pippin would have been able to rouse them.

[IronParrot]

That much is true. At that stage, they didn't have anything even close to the knowledge and experience they employed at Bywater.

[Millane]

yeah well i am a bit hazy but isnt it foretold about the destruction of the rings and the inclusion of halflings to help this cause so wouldnt that have decided that for them...
as to your question they played a huge part in the destruction of the ring... as was mentioned they put a whole lot of confusion which led the lidless eye away from the lands of Mordor and left it open for Sam and Frodo... And how they grew both in size and in courage that came with Merry and Pippin drinking the ents draught and the battle of Pellenor Feilds... i think that it was best that they joined the fellowship instead of going back to the Shire... think of it like this... if they had of got home would they have been able to defend the shire from Saruman without the courage and size that they got and if yes then in the end as you said it probly would have been destroyed anyway after Frodo failed the quest

[Linarryl]

I thought that Merry and Pippin were pretty important in the story!Without them orcs might have already caught Frodo.

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I agree with olsonm I think that if they would be in the shire they would be in prison or bothering to Sharrky's peoples. well I think that the party might succeed without them if someone eles would come with the fellowship, depend who will be the one.

[Ërendil]

I think that if Merry and Pippin had gone back to the shire after Rivendell the story would completly change.
For one thing Pippin wouldn't have thrown the stone down the well so maybe the fellowship wouldn't have been attacked and Gandalf would have lived.
Gandalf may have chosen a different/beter route to Mt. Doom and may have chosen who went with Frodo. Also, the fellowship may not have encounted the Uruk Hai and Boromir may not have ben killed etc.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Merry and Pippin might have ended up in the hills and then in prison with Fatty Bolger had Elrond succeeded in sending them back after the Council. I don't think they could have roused the hobbitry of the Shire until things had gotten unbearable, and then without military experience, how could they have fought the ruffians? They would have been afraid of the bad Big People, too, had they not fought with good Big People and sometimes against the bad ones already (well, actually, what hobbit, besides Merry, actually tackled one of the Big People or their wraiths?)

Too, besides experience and the stirring sounds of the horn from Rohan, they came back with a Baggins, which lent them moral support, even though he was the least martial of all the Travellers. Family had to face down family, even with all the interference from Saruman and Lotho's death. Look how popular Lobelia was after she'd attempted it. Had they come back without Frodo, it might not have worked so well.

As to their importance in the War of the Ring, many good points have been made, especially M&P's critical importance at Parth Galen. I would add that, without Pippin's stirring Beregond to leave his post, Faramir would have died with Denethor.

And then there is their effect on the Big People of the Fellowship. There were many heros in that group, and such groups have not always fared so well on historic quests. Could it be that the presence of the hobbits, who needed protection and guidance, and especially Merry and Pippin after Frodo and Sam went to Mordor, kept the heros from getting carried away with themselves? Tempering their yang, so to speak, by requiring them to show some yin? I've always thought that Aragorn's final test was his decision on the Emyn Muil, and maybe Gandalf's final test wasn't so much at Moria as it was at the Gate of Minas Tirith, when Pippin came and begged him to come up and save Faramir.

[Dunadan]

Good point, LoI. "Everybody should have a hobbit in their care... to teach them the meaning of the word." (Gandalf, I think).

People have pretty much summed it up though. I'd emphasise further that it's absolutely crucial to the unfolding of events in TTT that Sauron believes that Saruman, and then maybe Aragorn, has possession of the ring. He empties his land, strikes too soon, etc.

This situation comes about because (as someone says above) the orcs captures some "halflings" and subsequently Pippin looks in the orthanc-stone. "It is not for you, Saruman."

Having said that, I've always thought it odd that Elrond, Gandalf et al chose not even to try to warn folk in the Shire about the War.

cheers

d.

[Lalaith]

Ha ... I just wanted to open a thread questioning this ... and then I found that there was already one.

I have always wondered if Merry and Pippin could have done anything to prevent the scourcing of the Shire. I mean the were only two hobbits and when they left Rivendell they had not the strenght and courage they proved to have in the end. So if they had left Rivendell to go back to the Shire they wouldn't have been more than two usual hobbits and what could they have done? I don't think that they would have changed anything.
IMO it was better that they joined the fellowship because they saved Frodo and Sam at Parth Galen, they "woke" up the Ents and Merry helped slaying the Witch king and Pippin helped saving Faramir.

[Elvengirl]

What about Pippin's encounter with the Palantir? Gandalf says he wasn't ready to confront Sauron. What would have happened?
Merry and Pippin each had thier own important contributions to the quest. What good would they have done going back to the Shire?

[gimli7410]

if they had gone back to the shire they would have been easily overpowered and wouldnt have been able to send a message to anyone.

[Lady of Rohan]

I think they where better off going on the quest. They actually did quite a bit to help out, too. And as we know, every thing turned out alright in the end. And if they did go, then they probably would have been over powered. They did have some experiance by Rivendell, but not enough to fight the Ruffians sucsessfully.

[azalea]

I wonder what would have happened if FRODO had returned to the Shire right away, as in a case where someone else was chosen to destroy the Ring (it doesn't matter who, let's just say they wer successful). I mean, Frodo wouldn't have the full effects of carrying the ring all that way, although he would have some effects, plus the Morgul wound. So would they have affected the outcome of the "invasion?" Would there have been a different look to it? They wouldn't have had the same knowledge and experience, but I can't imagine that "our" hobbits would let such a thing come to pass if they were there and could help it.
Maybe they'd have been thrown in jail and then what?:eek: :(

[durin's bane]

I think it was best for Pippin and Merry to go along. After all, they played an important part in the book. Their actions sort of let the quest flow a little easier.

[Elvengirl]

I can not imagine "our" hobbits letting something like that happen, but what could they have done. I don't see how them being there could have stopped it. Plus "our" hobbits grew and changed so much throughout the journey. Remember, they were not the tough little warriors they became. :D

[LutraMage]

I think all the key points are made above - without Merry and Pippin as part of the Fellowship so many of the things that needed to happen wouldn't have and Sauron would have regained the ring.

But, for me, the real answer to this connundrum is provided by Gandalf (now ain't that unusual;) ) when he tells Elrond I think, Elrond, that in this matter it would be well to trust rather to their friendship than to great wisdom. Even if you choose for us an elf-lord, such as Glorfindel, he could not storm the Dark Tower, nor open the road to the Fire by the power that is in him.
In other words, the whole book is about how apparantly 'small' people can make a difference, can 'shake the towers of the wise', and the true strength of each individual is the friendship of others - you know, united we stand, divided we fall? Basically, Gandalf was saying that the bonds of friendship would be a more certain help to the fellowship than great renown or prowess - and, of course, he was proved right by all the things Merry and Pippin acheived on the quest.

[gollum9630]

i feel taht if they had returned to the Shire, they would not of matured as much as they did, and there would have been no fight back by the Hobbits during the socuring of the shire. The shire would have fallen and they ring may not of been destroyed without the help of the ents. They played a key role in being caaptured instead of Frodo and sam. without them them, sauron may have gained back the ring.

[Bombadillo]

I've thought about this before. If I was in the place of Elrond or Gandalf, I don't think I would have let them tag along; they're just not solemn(?) enough. But of course, Elrond and Gandalf are infinately wiser than I.
Apparently, they did make the right choice. Merry and Pippin were very important in the Shire in the end. One of my favorite parts one when the the big guy was was picking on him, and he got worked up and drew his Gondorian blade! They really did make the story a whole lot better.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by olsonm
I don't know if Merry and Pippin would have made that much of a difference in the Shire if they hadn't gone to Rohan/Gondor. . I concour, without the experience and growth of character they had during the quest and war, they would had added little.