Big Bad World

[Rána Eressëa]

I have a dicussion-like question that I would like some good relevant information about.

If charged with a small thing like theft for products under $20 and only given probation, exactly how much (and in what ways) can this effect you as you go into schools, jobs, and etc.? I am currently bogged by this and would like to ease my mind a little from worry (if that's at all possible).

[osszie]

I suppose it depends where you live.

In the UK many criminal convictions do not have to be declared after a certain time period. Minor theft does not have to be declared on official forms after 5 years. During those 5 yrs it does have to be declared on job/college/university applications.

(sighs) and they wonder why a convicted criminal usually goes back to an unlawful way of life:confused:

[Rána Eressëa]

It's juvenile. I think juvenile records work slightly different from then if you were charged with it as an adult.

[osszie]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
It's juvenile. I think juvenile records work slightly different from then if you were charged with it as an adult.

It does, here that conviction would not have to be declared after the age of 18. which would not help for school/college/first job unfortunatley.

[Rána Eressëa]

According to my father (who has a large knowledge of law, but not because he likes it), here in the States all juvenile records do not have to mentioned, declared, revealed to anyone; they're sealed records. I just asked and he said you are not obligated to tell anyone, even if it's for a school or job, but they can (if they dig deep enough) find out. Can anyone clarify this perhaps?

[Cirdan]

Felony Juvenile records are open if you are tried as an adult. It would vary from state to state. It has been a while since I had my little problem, buit it sounds like no big deal. There are people your age killing people, after all.

[Duddun]

I don't know but I think your fathers right Rana.

[Sween]

and i thought you were such a nice girl. Its a shame you didnt do it before you were 16 because if americas like here they just let you off with a caution.

But if you do the crime you got to do the time :D let that be a lesson to you all if you do a crime make sure you dont get caught :eek:

[Rána Eressëa]

Actually, I did do it before I was sixteen. But those evil people waited four months for me to turn sixteen that way they could attempt to charge me with a fine. Wal-mart people are greedy worms, I tell ya. Not only have they already pressed to court for restitution fees 6 times the amount for the products they got BACK - and get this: unharmed - but now they want to charge me with an even larger fine (which thanks to a counsellor will be overturned). Since neither one of my parents are working and have disability, you think they would show some pity, but no - they were willing to pull the money out of my dad's disability if they had to. Now tell me that isn't cruel for a first time offense of only $17 dollars.

[Sween]

I liked wal mart when i come over from england. I mean the one in kisseme had its own mac donalds. we lost my mum and sister for over 2 hours in it though :D was quite good i was sick of the sight of my family after that holiday. 3 weeks sharing the same room with my family yuk i hated it.

[Starr Polish]

I don't mean to sound preachy, but what and why did you steal anyway?

[Erawyn]

Thats ridiculous, stupid Wal-mart...

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
I don't mean to sound preachy, but what and why did you steal anyway?

The pressures of society are large on my shoulders. :) Wait. Actually, I just didn't have the money for at the time, and that is pressure when you think about it. This day and age it's all about money. It'd be better if it were about sharing. :rolleyes:

It wasn't anything that would mean something to the everyday person, which is why it shocks me that they make such a big deal of it.

[Starr Polish]

They're 'making an example of you', I'm sure. Sheesh, RE, you should know that you shouldn't listen to society. Evil lemming sheep....

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
The pressures of society are large on my shoulders. :) Wait. Actually, I just didn't have the money for at the time, and that is pressure when you think about it. This day and age it's all about money. It'd be better if it were about sharing. :rolleyes:

It wasn't anything that would mean something to the everyday person, which is why it shocks me that they make such a big deal of it.

Those pressures are only real if you let them be. I wouldn't put to much emphasis on this event either. If you keep your focus on your dreams them all the outside chatter will fade away. There is nothing you can buy or steal that will make you happy. Only by actualizing yourself will you find true happiness.

Now, if you will excuse me, I has to get back to my job of writing fortune cookies.;)

[Duddun]

Man Wal-Mart's mean, I never shopped there before and I definately never will now.

[Starr Polish]

Hurm...sorry to bust your bubble, but I'm sure most stores would have done the same.

[HOBBIT]

Um why evil walmart? Stealing is wrong and against the law. They can't make special exceptions for you and not others. They don't care about your problems and why would they? Its a cruel world. :p

[Cirdan]

Yes, but Wal-Mart is still pure, distilled evil.

[HOBBIT]

Well, that may be true. :p

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Yes, but Wal-Mart is still pure, distilled evil.

Wrong! Wal-Mart hired my handicapped daughter! I will forever be grateful. :)

[Cirdan]

eeeeeevvvviiiilllll, I tell you, EEEEEVVVVIIIILLL!!!

[BeardofPants]

So is Walmart like our K-mart? :confused:

Hey Cirdan, what did you get up to then, eh? :rolleyes: :p

[olsonm]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
So is Walmart like our K-mart? :confused:
Sorta. It's more like our K-mart. 0:-)

[BeardofPants]

Why does it not surprise me that that K-mart came from you guys? I always knew that Mordor still existed.... :rolleyes:

[Cirdan]

...and we will fill the world with giant non-descript boxes of chinese merchandise in order to destroy your culture, your "mom-and-pop" shops, and your fashion sense!!! BWAHAHAHA!!!

Umm, I'm off me meds today.:rolleyes: ;)

[Lizra]

Wal-Mart ran our K-Mart out of town. It's funny, everyone looks so happy there! Saving all that money! Help us, wise Utopian sage! Save us from ourselves! We must have our fashion sense! :eek: ;)

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Hurm...sorry to bust your bubble, but I'm sure most stores would have done the same.

I've known a few people to get caught at other stores, and stuff like this has never happened to them. They either got warnings or probation, but never any fines. So, yes, evil Wal-mart. :mad:

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Um why evil walmart? Stealing is wrong and against the law. They can't make special exceptions for you and not others. They don't care about your problems and why would they?

First question answered above. But how can you for sure say stealing is wrong. Yeah, it's against the law, but who ever said law was a good thing? :rolleyes: Example: being naked in public can get you arrested, even though that's what you came in the world looking like. Law is phooey.

[Lizra]

First question answered above. But how can you for sure say stealing is wrong. Yeah, it's against the law, but who ever said law was a good thing? :rolleyes: Example: being naked in public can get you arrested, even though that's what you came in the world looking like. Law is phooey. [/B][/QUOTE]

Whoo Boy! You have some growing up to do! Reading this is painful! Look, You made a mistake, we all do sometimes. Take it like a woman and quit whining. Your life will go on, you'll get over it, Just check that childish attitute and move ahead! Quit wasting your time arguing! Move forward! (I'm saying this, not to ridicule you or make you feel bad, but to get you to think, if you want to be treated as an adult, you have to act like on) Shoplifting was an indulgent, childish mistake, you're beyond that now (Right!!? :) )

[mirrille]

Yes. I am a bit disturbed that you are thinking this way. It must suck now, but the fact is that you were going to have to learn this lesson sometime, somehow. I'd be much more disturbed if you had gotten off easy. Shoplifting is still theft and it's still a crime, so the honourable thing to do would be to accept the consequences of your actions and set yourself straight from here on. You can't change what you did in the past, but you can make amends and decide what you will do in the future.
Sorry if that sounds preachy, but we are just concerned you will "go down the wrong path", as it were, and this is the only way I can express it.
Good luck.

[BeardofPants]

You're just damned lucky it's just a fine. My brother got busted a month ago for burglary, and he got to spend a week in jail ... with no toilet paper. Luckily for him, it was first offence, so he didn't get sentenced for it, but still.

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Lizra
Whoo Boy! You have some growing up to do! Reading this is painful! Look, You made a mistake, we all do sometimes. Take it like a woman and quit whining. Your life will go on, you'll get over it, Just check that childish attitute and move ahead! Quit wasting your time arguing! Move forward! (I'm saying this, not to ridicule you or make you feel bad, but to get you to think, if you want to be treated as an adult, you have to act like on) Shoplifting was an indulgent, childish mistake, you're beyond that now (Right!!? :) )

Is that how you think my mind works? Okay then.

Yes, I know it was a mistake. Preferably why, I'll say not. And I'm not whining - I'm speaking my mind. I haven't "whined" about this at all since it happened; I have, however, had some strong disagreements with what Wal-mart is doing to me because I have my own standards of what a mistake is, and what they are doing is just as bad as what I did, if not worse. I may have taken $17 worth of products that they got back, but I do not see fairness in them taking $150 and maybe more of mine. I find that childish.

I wasn't arguing either, I was just speaking my mind about law. So what? You can find it childish, but I'm not dwelling on this; I'm merely (or was merely) trying to find some opinions about whether or not my dad was right about what he said, and some people made some slightly off-topic comments that I replied to.

And I don't remember saying, "Treat me like an adult, you big meanies!"

I really wish people would stop taking things the wrong way these days. :rolleyes:

[Cirdan]

This is turning into the 'Moot's "Les Miserables. Breaking the law *is* a mistake. Justice is the next part of the process. The question is not just one of guilt or innocene but also what is an appropriate level of punishment. It is a waste of time and money to take this particular case any further since the process of being caught and prosecuted is punishment in and of itself. If you disagree you should spend a day or two in your nearest courtroom to get an idea of what people get away with today. Long sentences have filled the prisons (the population of which has doubled in the last ten years) to the point where cash strapped districts must hand out weak sentences.

Everyoner is entitled to a mistake. R-E, you should work on your "regret" speech. It's critical to a light sentence. Lucky for me my family is full of lawyers.:)

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
You're just damned lucky it's just a fine. My brother got busted a month ago for burglary, and he got to spend a week in jail ... with no toilet paper. Luckily for him, it was first offence, so he didn't get sentenced for it, but still.

That would be cruel and unusual punishment (unconstitutional) here. It's strange that they see no problem with the sodomy.:eek:

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Breaking the law *is* a mistake.

I think I've pointed out before: that's an opinion. It may sound childish to most, but I'm not fond of law. If you have a problem with someone, work it out with them - sending in people with guns and handcuffs to catch them is primitive and (now I know this isn't the right word, but it's close enough) unnatural, so to speak.

It's been seen as cruel for a long time, but humans are animals. Let's face it. Since when did rules suddenly apply to us and us alone absolutely?

But in this world, yes, things like that are relatively mistakes. However, in the real world (as I call it), stuff like that just does not exist.

And question, Cirdan - "regret" speech?

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
"Regret" speech?

You know... I'm very, very, very, very sorry and I'll never do it again. It was a mistake and I promise I'll never ever, ever, do it again. yadayadayada

[Sween]

her only mistake was getting caught :D

[Rána Eressëa]

Well, see, under pressure of much higher authority I breakdown and say a lot of funny things. I can't tell if it's natural instinct or what, but I've never had to work on saying sorry - it comes out perfectly on it's own. :)

[Sween]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
Well, see, under pressure of much higher authority I breakdown and say a lot of funny things. I can't tell if it's natural instinct or what, but I've never had to work on saying sorry - it comes out perfectly on it's own. :)

only say sorry if you mean it. I make no appolgies every but i have an uncanny nack of worming my way out of trouble of slipping into the shadows and not been caught :D .

I have never been charged or caught for any act of crimality that i may of commited.

[osszie]

It's strange when you have your first brush with the law.........never been to jail personally but came close once or twice (it would have been juvinile prison/borstal) decided against that and been an, almost, law abiding citizen ever since.

The thought of sharing a shower/bathroom every morning with a hundred other men didn't appeal at all. (Coincidentally the same reason I never joined the army).

BoP that's just terrible:eek: could your brother not trade for a loo roll:confused: ;)

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Sween
only say sorry if you mean it. I make no appolgies every but i have an uncanny nack of worming my way out of trouble of slipping into the shadows and not been caught :D

I will mean it. I never apologize without meaning it, so have no fear.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by osszie
BoP that's just terrible:eek: could your brother not trade for a loo roll:confused: ;)

Well, the procedure with toilet paper is, apparently, trade your old toilet roll in for a new toilet roll - you don't have an empty, ya don't get a new one. And since there was no empty in his cell when he went in, well.... :rolleyes:

[Cirdan]

*note: always bring a cache of old tp rolls on any trip to NZ*:)

[BeardofPants]

Cirdan, what are you planning on doing to my beautiful country? :eek:

(Don't you know that they'll strip search you? "What's this then, eh? A toilet roll, eh? Can't 'ave that, mate." :rolleyes: )

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Cirdan, what are you planning on doing to my beautiful country? :eek:

(Don't you know that they'll strip search you? "What's this then, eh? A toilet roll, eh? Can't 'ave that, mate." :rolleyes: )

I've got to get my kicks somehow.:D

I would probably spend all my time going, "Hey, this looks like Middle Earth."

[Starr Polish]

I'm not going to say you're whining, RE, but I do agree with some of the above posts.

Worse than whining, you're echoing the things I hear everyday among the mindless, immature children (not that I am an adult) that parade around my school thinking that they have enough experience and intelligence to know exactly how to work the world.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
Is that how you think my mind works? Okay then.

I have, however, had some strong disagreements with what Wal-mart is doing to me because I have my own standards of what a mistake is, and what they are doing is just as bad as what I did, if not worse. I may have taken $17 worth of products that they got back, but I do not see fairness in them taking $150 and maybe more of mine. I find that childish.You don't seem to understand that your standards don't matter here. The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You do not see fairness in them taking $150.00 eventhough you only took $17.00? Is that what you are saying? Well, stop and think a minute. If you hadn't taken anything at all and put yourself in that position, then you wouldn't be paying 1 cent. When you commit a crime, you better be prepared to pay the price. You knew it was wrong, so don't do it again, and hopefully, you've learned a lesson.



And I don't remember saying, "Treat me like an adult, you big meanies!"

I really wish people would stop taking things the wrong way these days. :rolleyes: [/B] I wouldn't dream of treating you like an adult. Just don't do it again. You do know right from wrong don't you? Next time, don't act like an idiot.

[osszie]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair

I wouldn't dream of treating you like an adult. Just don't do it again. You do know right from wrong don't you? Next time, don't act like an idiot.

yup:)

[Rána Eressëa]

Well, today was D-Day.

When we got there, there wasn't a judge or a probabtion officier. There was a man there, though, that told us I wouldn't have to have probation (the judge heeded the counsellor's letter) and all I had to do was sign a paper saying I'd stay out of trouble for 3 months and it's over. You can imagine how surprised I was. I'm relieved now. :)

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I wouldn't dream of treating you like an adult.

Yeah, I know - I'm smarter than that. :rolleyes:

The world is attempting to perfect itself with the illusion of right and wrong. Law is there to try and mold us to be perfect and to live up to the expectations of religious beliefs of what makes a person good. After seeing this go on for thousands and thousands of years, humans tend to believe whatever they're told about right and wrong. You fall under that categorey, whereas I don't.

That statement originally would make me mad, but I'm looking at it with a light-hearted attitude because it was meant to make me feel inferior, childish, and stupid. In your set of beliefs that may be so - I'm can't agrue with that. But under my beliefs, well, that's a different story. And what are your beliefs but another point of view? Just because many people believe in something (for here, let's say right and wrong) it still does not become the truth. Right and wrong are merely a part of knowledge, which can be changed. Truth is eternal, and right and wrong have nothing to do with it. Reality simply has no moral treatises.

There's my childish speech of the day.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, today was D-Day.

When we got there, there wasn't a judge or a probabtion officier. There was a man there, though, that told us I wouldn't have to have probation (the judge heeded the counsellor's letter) and all I had to do was sign a paper saying I'd stay out of trouble for 3 months and it's over. You can imagine how surprised I was. I'm relieved now. :)I would say you were very lucky.





The world is attempting to perfect itself with the illusion of right and wrong. Law is there to try and mold us to be perfect and to live up to the expectations of religious beliefs of what makes a person good.Law is there to keep order among societies and has little to do with religious beliefs. Nomatter what your religion is, or even if you were an Atheist, you are not above the law, even if you don't agree with it. If you commit a crime, then you are punished for that crime. You know this before you make your choice to do as much. that is your fault, not the government's, society's, or any religion's. It is yours and only yours. After the crime is commited and the punishment put down, It always amazes me how the perpetrator cries the loudest about unfairness. After seeing this go on for thousands and thousands of years, humans tend to believe whatever they're told about right and wrong. You fall under that categorey, whereas I don't.If it feels wrong, and looks wrong, then it's probably wrong. This isn't such a hard thing to know. Good feels good, bad feels bad, and right feels right. It's that simple.

That statement originally would make me mad, but I'm looking at it with a light-hearted attitude because it was meant to make me feel inferior, childish, and stupid. In your set of beliefs that may be so - I'm can't agrue with that. But under my beliefs, well, that's a different story. And what are your beliefs but another point of view? Just because many people believe in something (for here, let's say right and wrong) it still does not become the truth. Right and wrong are merely a part of knowledge, which can be changed. Truth is eternal, and right and wrong have nothing to do with it. Reality simply has no moral treatises.It was never my intentions to make you feel inferior, childish, or stupid. I don't consider you inferior. I think what you did was a childish and stupid act, does that imply inferiority? I think not. And what are my set of beliefs that you seem to know so much about? I am about 30 years your senior, and in that much time, you learn a few things, and frankly in this case I have to disagree with you that right and wrong have little to do with it. You speak of truth but is not truth a part of righteousness? Is not a lie wrong? I fail to see your point with this statement. You may not agree with the law and find it to be harsh or even unfair at times, that doesn't mean you can break it and not pay some price for doing so. If you don't agree with the law then you take legal action to have it changed. I have raised a teenager RE, I know what it's like. I am glad your ordeal is over. I hope you learned something from it.

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
If it feels wrong, and looks wrong, then it's probably wrong. This isn't such a hard thing to know. Good feels good, bad feels bad, and right feels right. It's that simple.

You can't judge by feelings. Good doesn't feel good for all people, and bad doesn't feel bad for all people. Feelings are the worst way to go by what we should do.

It was never my intentions to make you feel inferior, childish, or stupid. I don't consider you inferior. I think what you did was a childish and stupid act, does that imply inferiority?

Saying you wouldn't treat me as an adult is implying I am a child, and children are considered inferior to adults. So yes.

You speak of truth but is not truth a part of righteousness? Is not a lie wrong?

*sigh* No, actually. Righteousness had nothing to do with truth. Righteousness has to do with right and wrong, once again.

I fail to see your point with this statement. You may not agree with the law and find it to be harsh or even unfair at times, that doesn't mean you can break it and not pay some price for doing so. If you don't agree with the law then you take legal action to have it changed.

I know that when getting caught, you have to pay a price. But I won't agree with it unlesss it's reasonable. Reasonable would have been making me keep the merchandise and having to pay for every cent of it.

I alone could not take action and change the law. It's impossible. Either way, they would go with what the majority of people agree with because it means less conflict for them.

I have raised a teenager RE, I know what it's like. I am glad your ordeal is over. I hope you learned something from it.

Yes, I've learned to wear my glasses at all times. See? --> :cool: (J/k)

Like I have said before, in this society it was a mistake. And in this society, there was something to learn from it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

You can't judge by feelings. Good doesn't feel good for all people, and bad doesn't feel bad for all people. Feelings are the worst way to go by what we should do.If a person can not trust his/her own feelings and intuitions, then how can they even judge the difference between right and wrong to begin with? Feelings are not the worst way to go by what you should do. They act as a beacon to guide you. If you don't draw on them to tell you right from wrong, then how can you ever expect to make resposible choices?



]Saying you wouldn't treat me as an adult is implying I am a child, and children are considered inferior to adults. So yes.I said that I wouldn't treat you as an adult because of a silly reply you gave to Lizra. Something to the effect of "I never asked to be treated like an adult you meanies." But, here is a fact. You are a child, and I am an adult. That does not imply inferiority. that implies more wisdom maybe. And who said that children are considered inferior to adults. I have never said that or implied that. If you took it that way then you have misunderstood, I would say that you opened yourself up to that remark. Another fact is that the longer you live, the more you learn. We have had this discussion before. You gain more insight as you age and experience things.



*sigh* No, actually. Righteousness had nothing to do with truth. Righteousness has to do with right and wrong, once again.And once again, is the truth right? Is a lie wrong?



I know that when getting caught, you have to pay a price. But I won't agree with it unlesss it's reasonable. Reasonable would have been making me keep the merchandise and having to pay for every cent of it.And once again, there would have been no price to pay at all had you not made a bad choice and put yourself in that position.

I alone could not take action and change the law. It's impossible. Either way, they would go with what the majority of people agree with because it means less conflict for them.You may not be able to do that right now, but many people with a cause have managed to change laws through legislation. Your attitude sounds a bit self-defeating IMO





Like I have said before, in this society it was a mistake. And in this society, there was something to learn from it. Good, because I'm afraid as long as you live here you have to follow the rules. If you ever leave here, you will have to follow the rules nomatter where you end up, and nomatter how much you don't agree with them.

[jerseydevil]

I agree with Hobbit and Sister Golden Hair.

First of all you stole. What made you think you had a right to the stuff in the first place? It wasn't yours and nothing entitles you to it.

Second - now that you have stolen and gotten caught, you're complaining that they were convicting you and going to have you pay a fine of $150 for $17 worth of stuff. What do you expect - hand the stuff over, cross your fingers - say "I won't do it again" and they'd just accept it? As far as I'm concerned - they sort of let you off easy with what they gave you. I wouldn't have put you in jail or anything - but I think a month or two of community service wouldn't hurt.

The people that ransacked my house and stole my CDs, watches, etc - got put in jail. I'm sorry - I don't feel sorry for people that steal. I feel sorry for the families that have to go through it a lot of times. But if someone does something wrong - whether they agree with the law or not - they have to face up to the consequences.

Also - as SGH said - law has nothing to do with religion. We, as a society, have determined what is right or wrong. You may not agree with what the majority has determined - but in a civilicised society you have to play by the rules. If you don't like it - then you better find yourself a deserted island somewhere to live so you can live under your own moral standards.

Also - anyone that shoplifts and cheats hospitals and insurance companies - that money doesn't get eaten by them. They don't just go - "oh, well we got taken for $10,000 this month or today." They pass it onto the consumer in higher prices. My mother owned a small bookstore in Indiana and I had managed it after she died. I know people stole from us. I never wanted to sit there and watch the customers - but there were many times when I was tempted too.

You are actually one of the people that has caused me to boycott Wal-Mart for 5 years. They treat their customers as criminals and they have all those security cameras around. You're the reason they're there. I don't steal and I have never stolen and when I go into a store I don't expect to be treated as a potential thief. When I walk out of a store I don't expect my bags to always be searched as they were always done at the Wal-Mart in Seymour IN. I wrote a letter to Wal-Mart and and the manager had called me. I haven't bought anything in wal-mart since then. I go to Target.

[webwizard333]

All my respect for you is gone. :p before: that's an opinion. It may sound childish to most, but I'm not fond of law. If you have a problem with someone, work it out with them - sending in people with guns and handcuffs to catch them is primitive and (now I know this isn't the right word, but it's close enough) unnatural, so to speak.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you go tell that to the policemen trying to stop the gunman down in Maryland? Law is here to protect us from ourselves. You seem to see nothing wrong with your stealing from them, so how could they work anything out with you? Your whole attitude to this situation seems immature, complaining that they made an effort to punish you for stealing. If you don't like it, tough, its not something you're ever going to be able to change.

I go to Target.
All my respect for you is gone. :p

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by webwizard333
All my respect for you is gone. :p

You'll get over it. :p At least at target the store is clean, the people are friendly and they don't treat their customers as potential theives. I was at the Wal-mart store last weekend when I was in Indiana - my friends drag me there so I can make fun of it as we walk down aisles. They hate me doing that - but they continue to drag me there. I think they just want to see if they can get me to break my boycott. The parking lot was a mess - there was even a dirty diaper laying on the ground. The store was almost as dirty as the parking lot. At least before it used to be clean.

I do agree with your other comments though. :D And the Maryland sniper isn't just killing people - he's terrorizing an entire area. People are being killed just trying to get gas, sitting on benches, walking into school. The latest victim was a person from Philadelphia with I think 6 kids.

[Cirdan]

Yeah, the sniper has worked over my neighborhood pretty well. I live in the center of the first days action. The Shell station is a couple of miles from my house. I just keep my eyes peeled and hope that if it comes it's a clean head shot. :eek:

I think I saw the van so maybe I'll be raking in that $400K.:rolleyes:

[webwizard333]

At least at target the store is clean, the people are friendly and they don't treat their customers as potential theives.
The Target store in my area is a whole lot different. It's a messy store with unfriendly employees, and doors that sound the alarm everytime someone walks through them. And they have really, really bad commercials. :D

Btw, Rana, you do believe in right and wrong. This entire thread was started by you to complain about the unfairness of Walmart's actions, as if there was something wrong about the actions.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Also RE, you said earlier that you expected to have to pay a price for what you did as long as it was reasonable. Stealing is not a reasonable thing to do, so once you do it, they have the right to set the price that is to be paid. That is the chance you took when you set the events in motion. There is nothing reasonable about breaking the law, and I don't want to come across as though you committed the crime of the century. You are young and when we are young and growing and learning, we sometimes do dumb things, but we learn from it, make restitution, and don't do it again.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
[B


The world is attempting to perfect itself with the illusion of right and wrong. Law is there to try and mold us to be perfect and to live up to the expectations of religious beliefs of what makes a person good. After seeing this go on for thousands and thousands of years, humans tend to believe whatever they're told about right and wrong. You fall under that categorey, whereas I don't.

Just because many people believe in something (for here, let's say right and wrong) it still does not become the truth. Right and wrong are merely a part of knowledge, which can be changed. Truth is eternal, and right and wrong have nothing to do with it. Reality simply has no moral treatises.

[/B]

Reading this just makes me think you are a naive ding-dong! So, you have you own world? :rolleyes: You might have an interesting "new" view of the world, but (and I guess this is what you learned) , you live in this world. You could write an interesting story or book about your fantasy world, I'm curious as to what fuels your seemingly massive superiority complex.