Scenes that should not be left out of the Two Towers

[Nurvingiel]

There are some scenes that must be in the Two Towers. I'll kick it off ny talking about my favourite one. After running accross Rohan, Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn come to a ruined Isenguard. At the gates, they meet Merry and Pippin 'standing guard' - smoking good Hobbit weed, eating food, and relaxing. This part should not be left out, because it is really funny.

Your thoughts and other suggestions?

[Sween]

the real time storming of isengard by the ents (hey its not in the book but it will be cool to see it)

also i think its very important to the films they include the ent draughs

[Ms. Undomial]

I agree with you sween, they cannot leave out the ent draughts. they cannot leave out shelob either. that would be horrific!!!

[Artanis]

The Entmoot of course! :)

I would also like to see the Glittering Caves. I'd like to know how they picture it. From Gimli's description it should be maaagnificent.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Ms. Undomial
I agree with you sween, they cannot leave out the ent draughts. they cannot leave out shelob either. that would be horrific!!!

they are just postponing shelob dont worry my friend we will get to see her sooner or later

[cassiopeia]

I agree with what everyone else has said. I also think that Gimli and Legolas counting how many orcs they killed should be in, as should Pippin looking in the Palantir and Sarumans voice affecting those listening (when Gandalf and others are parleying with him at Isengard).

[Renille]

If they cut Frodo hanging "blinded" from the cliff or Sam forgetting the rope, I'll be furious. :) I don't want them to cut ANY scenes. But that one's my current favorite.

[Rían]

Nurvingiel, I love that 'standing guard' part, too! And when the men of Rohan say that they must be old friends, the way that they're insulting each other. :D

[Ñólendil]

I hope that part at the cross-roads, where Frodo sees the flowers hugging the fallen king's head in the dying light and says "Look Sam! The King has got a crown again!" gets in there. It's a beautiful, dramatic moment that will be needed to uplift the spirit abit before it plunges headlong into the demented horror of Imlad Morgul, which I am sure Peter Jackson will take advantage of. It will be most unfortunate if this little, but important scene, does not make the cut.

[cassiopeia]

Another funny part is when Sam dunks his head into a bowl of water at the cave with Faramir. I hope they also show the men of Gondor looking west before they eat.

[Starr Polish]

I had forgotten about that part after the first time I read the books, and it made me laugh aloud the second part. That'd be a great light hearted moment to put in this otherwise dark movie.

Stupid 90 second rule...

[Rána Eressëa]

1.) Legolas & Gimli's contest.

2.) Gollum's screeching, hysterical fit when they put the rope on his ankle.

3.) The faces in the Dead Marshes.

4.) The whole rabbit/coney episode between Sam and Gollum.

I'll probably think of more later.

[Rána Eressëa]

Ah, and that scene where after Sam blurt's out "the Enemy's Ring" Faramir asks them what are they going to do when suddenly Frodo sways as he stands and Faramir catches him and puts him into bed. I should like to see that. :)

[Starr Polish]

Yes, yes, the Herbs and Rabbit Stew chapter! Probably my second favorite chapter in the whole trilogy (the first being "The Choices of Master Samwise").

They can't leave the whole 'taters, eh, precious, what's taters'...'Po-ta-toes" exchange out of that scene though.

[Nurvingiel]

I absolutely love all the scenes everyone's mentioned so far! Now I can understand PJ's dilemma.
I realized there were two things left out of the first movie that are important in the second and third movies. First, lembas. Unless I'm insane (possible) I'm really sure I didn't see a single cake of lembas. Frodo and Sam really depend on it in Mordor. It's all Merry and Pippin have to eat when they first escape from the Orcs. Also, Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn never would have been able to run accross Rohan without it.
Second, the flying mounts of the Nazgul. In the first book, Legolas shot one right before the battle at Amon Hen. (With his brand-new bow from Lorien, also ommitted.) I wonder how he's going to introduce these mounts without confusing everyone? They can't be left out altogether, they're so cool!

I can't wait until December 18th! How many days!?

(Of course, I don't want my mid-terms to come any faster...)

[Ms. Undomial]

if you want to know than go to:

http://click.tolkienworld.com/

it tell you how many days, hours, and minutes that are left.

[Grey_Wolf]

If you really want to know what PJ has in store for LOTR see my post called "PJ's LOTR story line"

[Dunadan]

Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli waiting in the grass for the Rohirrim. They hail them when they are almost past and the riders wheel round to surround them.

Ugluk force-marching the northerners.

Frodo coming face-to-face with the Witch-king in Morgul Vale.

No fears of any of those being chopped, methinks.

How about Gimli squaring up to Eomer over Galadriel? That would pose some continuity issues...

D.

[Goldberry1]

If Legolas and Gimli's contest was left out of The Two Towers i would be really mad!

[Nurvingiel]

Welcome to the moot Goldberry!

~~~~~

Reply to Dunadan:

I couldn't think why Gimli squaring up to Eomer over Galadrial would pose a continuity issue (because that's exactly what he did in the book) but then I realized that whole bit was left out of the first movie!

They left out how Legolas and Gimli became best friends in Lothlorien. (The Fellowship actually spent about a month there.)

They left out how Gimli requested three strands of Galadrial's hair as his gift.

What they could do to smooth over this error in the Two Towers is to have Gimli have this attitude adjustment as he, Aragorn, and Legolas run accross Rohan. Then when they meet Eomer and company, the altercation would make sense.

It would suck if this aspect of Gimli's character was deleted altogether, because I think it's a really interesting part of him.

So far, in the movie, he seems like a gruff, semi-awkward guy with a weird accent - way different than how I pictured him from the book!

(Of course, the accent makes sense, because as Sam said, "That Dwarf language must be a real jaw cracker!")

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel

It would suck if this aspect of Gimli's character was deleted altogether, because I think it's a really interesting part of him.

So far, in the movie, he seems like a gruff, semi-awkward guy with a weird accent - way different than how I pictured him from the book!

Agreed! He's probably the strongest personality from the whole FOTR (or maybe Sam), and I think the one which was least well portrayed in the film (largely due to his lines, rather than the performance; I'm sure he'll have more to do in TTT).


(Of course, the accent makes sense, because as Sam said, "That Dwarf language must be a real jaw cracker!")
I think John Rhys Davis was trying to give him a Scottish-type accent, but being Scottish myself, he wasn't fooling me (though maybe it sounded fine to others). Pippin at least had a genuine accent.

[Kallasilya]

The scene that I would love to see in T2T would have to be the one where Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas find Merry and Pip outside the gates of the ruined Isengard. I just LOVE that scene :D . And the continuation of that, when Pippin is telling the others about how he sees Gandalf the White for the first time. I don't know why, but those are probably my favourite parts out of the whole of lotr.

[Nurvingiel]

I agree Dunadan, I'm sure Gimli will shine in TTT!
Another great scene from the book is Legolas and Gimli's orc-slaying contest at the battle of Helm's Deep. I believe it ended 40-39 for Legolas. Gimli notched his axe on an iron collar of his last orc, and Legolas ran out af arrows.
An example of how Gimli kicks ass. (Plus, wouldn't it be cool to see the caves?!)

And the scene Kallasilya mentioned is definately my favourite, it's actually the one I started this thread with! It's the number one scene I don't want omitted from the movie!

[azalea]

I'd like to see the part when Faramir et al are watching Gollum catch fish in the stream and Frodo insists that they let him go and goes down and has to trick him, you know, that whole scene.

[Kallasilya]

Speaking of Ithilien scenes... I want to see the waterfall. Umm, what's it called........ meh, I can't remember and I can't be bothered to go and look for it... but it's the one in Ithilien that faces west and has the caves behind it. I want to see the sunset through the waterfall!! I think that if done properly, it could look fantastic :cool:

[durin's bane]

i don't want the scene where pippin and merry follow the orcs. it's the scene where pippin starts proving his worth and makes his change from funny hobbit to ighter. i also want to see the ents and they better not cut ANYTHING from Frodo, Sam, and Gollums' big journey!!!!!!!

[Nurvingiel]

I love many scenes that take place in Ithilien. I just thought of two more.

1. The scene where Sam is roasting a rabbit over a fire, and Gollum gets mad at him for "wrecking" the meat. In a rare moment of friendship towards Gollum, Sam says he'd like to cook him some fish and chips sometime. Gollum says that would be nasty, and Sam hates him again.

2. The battle that the Hobbits and Gollum watch with Faramir's med fighting the Haradrim. This is where Sam sees an Oliphant/Mumak. And then soon after, they hook up with Faramir and his men.

[theworkhorse]

This is my first post!!!

The scenes involving Gimli and his affection for Galadriel are not in the movie, but are included in the cut scenes portion. I imagine that any further scenes involving this plot line will be in other cut scenes as well.

theworkhorse

[olsonm]

Originally posted by theworkhorse
This is my first post!!!Welcome! :)

I would like to see Pippin's misadventure with the Palantir.

[theworkhorse]

One of my favorite passages in the trilogy takes place at the end of "The Two Towers." Returning from his scavanging, Gollum findd Sam and Frodo asleep.
"For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of his youth, an old starved pitiful thing." (The Two Towers, Book IV, Chapter 8)
This passage shows an affectionate side, caused by Frodo's kindness, and portrays the goodness that remains in Gollums heart. It also shows that last remains of that goodness, as Sam is startled awake and his distrust turns Gollum away from any shred of remorse.
I think this one of the most important passages pertaining to Hobbits, the power of the ring, the life of the ring bearers, and what could have happened to Bilbo, Frodo, or Sam, had either of them been in possession of the ring for as long as Smeagol.
I can easily imagine, Pete leaving this out of the next movie, but I think it would be a shame.

theworkhorse

[theworkhorse]

I am also hoping Pete does not leave out the King's crown at the crossroads, and the maturing of Pippin, as others mentioned.

Someone also pointed out the lack of character developement for Gimli and Samwise. I felt these two had the poorest character portrayals in the movie. It is forgivable only because neither had major roles in the first book that could not be cut. I think, (hope, wish, and pray), that their roles will be better established in the next two movies.

theworkhorse

[Nurvingiel]

Welcome theworkhorse and olsonm!

I agree with both your suggestions. I actually wouldn't want any scene deleted.

We definately have looked at the Gimli character developpement issue, because the scene where he squares off with Eomer is definately cool.

I think Sam's developpement in the movie was fine, except much of it was inferred.

I thought Merry and Pippin got the shaft, and I really hope that changes with their adventures in Fangorn.

[durin's bane]

i forgot the art where pippin steals the plantir! that's so good. i want to see that too.

[Nurvingiel]

Not only is that part really funny, but I think it's essential to the story.

It's part of Pippin's character developpement, as becomes much more mature. Also, it causes Sauron to think Frodo is hundreds of miles further North than he really is.
It also contributes to Pippin going to Minas Tirith instead of to Rohan with Merry.

[BeardofPants]

I don't want ANY of the Ithilien scenes deleted: but of course PJ will probably have to... to make room for the action sequences. :rolleyes: My favourite chapter is probably of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit, followed closely by the Window on the West ... And I really hope that they show Sam washing his head in the water at Henneth Annûn! That bit makes me laugh every time! :D

[samwise909]

I agree about the glittering caves being shown , thats an essential seeing as Gimli and Legolas return in the 3rd book.
I can say I'm 100% sure that shelob will not be in the tt movie.
The most essential parts of the book that must be represented are those pretaining to Ents. We need to get a astounding visual and comprehensive look at their features and characteristics, both physical and intellectual. Their needs to be a shown caring and unprecidented likeness for Merry and Pippin by Treebeard.
But hey its hollywood and we might have to just sit back and watch them cut and paste where they see fit.

Frodo Lives!

[Nurvingiel]

I thought Shelob was in the Return of the King. But if she is in the Two Towers, she won't be left out. She's essential to the story. How else could PJ explain the pass through the Mountains of Terror? After all, there are no unguarded passes...
Plus, she needs to be in the movie for pure entertainment value. Shelob is cool! Don't say Attercop to her!

[samwise909]

To Nurvingiel,


Perhaps you should brush up on your Tolkien , cause Shelob is in fact in the book Two Towers . The saga of Frodo and Sams journey ends in TT with Frodo being left for dead by Sam and Sam taking the ring to continue the quest, hides while a patroling group of orcs treks past the lifeless body of frodo. As for Shelob not being in the TT movie directed by PJ, well my sources say 100% she will not be in this flick, rather she will begin the third installment of the trilogy.

" Maegus is my name, I am the Spider's Bane"

-Sam-

[HobbitChick88]

I really hope they put the part in where Frodo's asleep and Sam's talking to Gollum and he says "Where have you been off to? Sneaking off and sneaking back, I expect"(or something close to that). And then Gollum explodes and he's like, "Smeagol brings you up secret tunnels that nobody else could find. Smeagol is very tired and thirsty, yes thirsty.He guides them and he searches for paths and they say sneak, sneak." And then Frodo wakes up and he's like "Where have you been off to Gollum?" And Gollum says "Sneaking!" :D That has to be one of my most favorite parts in the whole thing! ;) :D

[VonRammstein]

December 2002?Can't wait for the war in the second movie.It looks good on the previews.Hope it's as good as the first.

[Wayfarer]

Offhand, I can't think of any that I would be happy to see cut.

[emplynx]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Merry and Pippin 'standing guard' - smoking good Hobbit weed, eating food, and relaxing. Yeah I really like that scene. It better not be left out.

[Nurvingiel]

Thank you Samwise, yes it is time for me to read the books again. At least Shelob is at the end of the books, so she is close to the events that happen in the Two Towers... um... no excuse.

Anyway, there's no way she'll be left out of the Two Towers.

Cheerio!

[Linarryl]

Gandalf comes back and Legolas, Gimili, and Aragorn hide in the tree thinking he is Sauruman and try to attack him, then they have a talk and they relise it's Gandalf. That part HAS TO be in the movie! I think it's funny. (for some strange reason):cool:

[Telperion]

A scene that absolutely CANNOT be cut out is when Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas meet Eomer for the first time. Everytime i read TTT, i read as fast as i can until i get to that scene. i just love it!
I also don't want when Frodo and Sam meet Farimir to be cut out. As a matter of fact, i don't want any scenes to be cut out but those are the ones i care about most.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Telperion
A scene that absolutely CANNOT be cut out is when Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas meet Eomer for the first time. Everytime i read TTT, i read as fast as i can until i get to that scene. i just love it!
I also don't want when Frodo and Sam meet Farimir to be cut out. As a matter of fact, i don't want any scenes to be cut out but those are the ones i care about most.

I think you'll find that if you watch the TT trailer you will see those scenes are in the movie.How closely they stick to the book is unknown.

[Celebrian]

They absolutley have to have Shelob, if they don't how could they end? One scene that has to be there, is when Gandalf is talking to Theoden, and the room is dark, but then he lifts up his staff and there is light coming in one window. I really like that scene, and it is described very well. I have the feeling Shelob is going to be in the third movie!

[Entlover]

Interesting article in the newest LotR fan club magazine (yes , I have stooped so low - but it's an excellent magazine). Titled Update with Peter Jackson ( stop me if you've all read this). He talks about Gollum as CGI character, and the more "liberated role" of Arwen, and then discusses the Two Towers:
"I would say that, of the three films, the TT is the one where we have certainly developed things further than what was in the book. . .we have followed the basic plot of the book. But we've found . . .that we feel the need to develop the characters and to put things in the movie that aren't in the book -- which is different than changing things. . . for instance you want to have a scene between Merry, Pippin and Treebeard that is just not in the book -- but you need it for the film, so you write it . .I think that TT has more original material with our characters than the Fellowship had and certainly more than the RotK has."

Be warned. I personally would love to see more scenes with Treebeard and the hobbits.

[madeyejay]

I think moving Shelob to ROTK is a mistake. That is key to the ending and the beginning of the next book. Alos I think as fans, we would not want anything cut. We would want a movie with every detail, if possible. The excerpt about PJ adding scenes scares me a little. Hopefully he does not get carried away.

[Nurvingiel]

The scene where Legolas, Gimli, and Gandalf meet Eomer and company for the first time, as well as where they meet Gandalf in Fangorn are definately essential.

So essential that they're in the trailer the TTT! You can download it from www.lordoftherings.net ! :) !

The whole Selob being ROTK instead of TTT would be wrong. That whole misunderstanding was my fault because I thought Shelob was actually in that book. I don't think Shelob will be in the ROTK movie, because she is key in TTT.

[Starr Polish]

It is pretty much official that Shelob has been moved to ROTK.

[Nurvingiel]

This will make for a lame TTT ending if this is true.

Could it be because they have too much story to deal with in TTT?

[BeardofPants]

It is because ROTK is a much shorter book than TT; it makes more sense to try and shovel more of TT over into the third segment, to bulk it out more. It's not like he's changing the timeframes....much.

[Midgardsormen]

Shelob has not only been moved to RotK because this is a shorter book. It is also so the timeline will be correct. In the books, Tolkien wrote the first half of TTT about Merry, Pippin, Ents, and Legolas, Aragorn, Gimli and Edoras/Helms Deep. The second half is all about Gollum, Sam and Frodo (and Faramir)....at the end of TTT Gollum, Sam and Frodo are WAY ahead of where the story left off for the others, and if PJ is jumping back and forth between the three groups he has to stick to more or less the same timeline.

In the book you know that both Sam and Frodo are free and travelling through Mordor way before the troops from Minas Tirith travel to challenge Sauron and are showed the sword, cape and Mithril mail!!
I am sure that not only is PJ trying to follow the timeline, but he also has to figure out where to put what in order to make it as exciting as possible.

As for there not being an exciting end if Shelob is moved....what about seeing Aragorn entering the paths of the dead, Gandalf and Pippin feeling 'desperate' having just been told by Faramir which way Sam and Frodo were attempting to enter Mordor....and ending with Sam and Frodo (with tears streaming down his face) watching the forces leaving for Mordor heading for war, and Frodo being convinced that he was too late!!
However he does it, I do not doubt that PJ will try to make it as exciting as possible, but also try to finish somewhere that seems a natural ending...........after all we have to wait another year for RotK!!
I personally love all the Sam/Frodo and Gollum scenes, but one of my favourite is the 'rabbit stew' where Sam looks at Frodo and he looks Elvish...as if a light is shining from within....I don't know if PJ is brave enough to include Sam professing his love for Frodo, but I wish he would.
Another scene I would love is the one alreadly mentioned when Gollum finds them both asleep with Frodo's head in Sam's lap...but that might be moved to the third movie too....and I love the 'sneaking' part too!! I cannot see PJ leaving that out!!

Ah, well, we can only wait and hope that as much as possible has been kept..........good news is that the rumour that Helms Deep fight is 45 minutes long is not true. PJ said in an interview that it is about 15 minutes (during the last 30 minutes of TTT interspersed with other scenes)...so there is lots of time for many many other scenes:D

[crickhollow]

lol, anyway, can you imagine the outrage of movie goers who haven't read the book if TTT ended the way the book does?

[Nurvingiel]

Good point Crickhollow, you should have heard the groans at the end of the first one! I bet you did actually...

Midgardsormen, you're right about the timeline, I didn't think about that. I did think of the length of the book though.

I wonder what a movie of the apendecies would be like? Joking!

[Eowyn of Rohan]

I agree with a lot of what has already been voiced:

- Gimli / Legolas orc-killing numbers game
- Meeting of Eomer
- Gollum Sam exchange of rabbit stew
- Gollum "sneaking" is a must (a MUST! - so funny... shows sides to him that aren't always readily apparent.)
- Pip stealing the Palantir
- Merry and Pip as the gate keepers at Isengard (hilarious)
- Gollum and the elf rope around his ankle
- The dead marshes

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the Voice of Saruman. Saruman up on his balcony peering out over the Flotsam and Jetsam.

ooor mentioned Wormtongue

Also,.. Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Gandalf's exchanges with Hama outside the entrance into the Golden Hall at Edoras where they are asked to lay aside their weapons (perhaps this is where we will learn Legolas' bow "came to me from the Golden Wood and the Lady of Lothlorien gave them to me." ?)

And when will we see the Green Gem that Aragorn carries and what it represents?

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Good point Crickhollow, you should have heard the groans at the end of the first one! I bet you did actually...

Midgardsormen, you're right about the timeline, I didn't think about that. I did think of the length of the book though.

I wonder what a movie of the apendecies would be like? Joking! yes, I did. three times in the theatre, and a few with the video as well.

[Dunadan]

Midgardsormen's ending sounds plausible: both dramatic and consistent with the time-line.

What I'd be interested to know is how they'll get hold of the Palantir. It's crucial to the plot that Sauron ends up believing that someone (probably Aragorn) has the Ring. Pippin has to get hold of it for us to believe that.

I've heard that Saruman gets impaled on a spiked wheel, or something

Does this mean that they'll trash Orthanc and leave Pippin to have a deck in the Stone while the others are off raiding his stash of Longfarthing Leaf?

[azalea]

Wouldn't it be funny if he did the Entmoot in real time?:D That would be a llllloooooooooonnnnnnggggggggg movie!

I mentioned in another thread that my favorite part of TTT is when the orcs are traveling w/ Merry and Pippin, then have the big argument and they escape, so I hope they show that. But the only problem is that the orcs voices might be hard for the average viewer to understand, so I doubt they'll be given a lot of dialog. :(

[Bard]

Probably it`s already said, but I`m not in for it to read all posts. Anyhow this is what part of the movie I wouldn`t want PJ to left out of it:
-The battle of the Ents at Isengard.
-The slaying of Theodred
-The battle with the Mumakil of Harad near Henneth-Annun.
Maybe one of you could tell me wheather these scenes will come in the movie? Or haven`t you got a clue either?

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with you azalea, Grishnagh (sp?) and that other Orc provide unexpected comic releif. (I need to read the book again.)
It would be a shame if they were left out.

[madeyejay]

I don't understand something about the moving of Shelob. They need to fill some time in RotK, then leave the scouring of the shire in.

[Bard]

Then the TTT should be longer, and the Shelob scene could quite some time. Also I think that Shelob`s appereance at the beginning of RotK would be more suitable, and not just because it`s a great way to get your public seated at the point of there chairs while the movie has just got started. But also because of the Frodo/Sam/Gollum-walking the stairs of Morgul-valley would be a propreate way to end TTT. It leaves an open ending like FotR wich is quiete sutable. Indeed it`s a petty that the scouring of the Shire is been left out, but I don`t see it as a nescecaty for the film (cous book and film simply can`t be an exact copy of each other mostly due to time problems in the film).

[WallRocker]

Altough Peter Jackson can not leave out the Ents, as they are the ones that Storm Sarumans Fortress, I'm guessing that a lot will be left out of the whole Ent Scene, just as Tom Bombadil and the Barrow-Downs were left out of FOTR

[Nurvingiel]

If Shelob is moved, what will be the climatic even of the Two Towers?

There's no was the scouring of the Shire can be taken out of the Return of the King. No way!

[Eowyn of Rohan]

Okay... wait wait waaait a second. Hold on!

Who said the Scouring of the Shire wouldn't be in ROTK?

From what I've heard (and seen from bootleg movie images), it will be!! It's essential when dealing with the end of Saruman and wormtongue, the marriage of Sam to Rosie, the birth of Elanor, the rise of Merry and Pippin, and the final voyage of Frodo separating him from Sam. True, they may not devote a WHOLE lot of time to it (even reading the book, I felt the climax of the books was the battle, mt. doom, and the quick following of the coronation and marriage. The rest is 'wrap up" (sorry, for those who feel different).

IMO, the story (in the book anyway.. since neither TTT or ROTK movie are out yet) goes from following the hobbits, to following man kind (while still keeping the hobbit's story going), and then culminates with wrapping up man kind's involvement by switching back to following the hobbits. And, therefore,.. we have a circle.... a "ring", if you will. ;)

(( ooo, I like that. I'm GOOD! )) :D

In order to follow that flow and give ANY KIND of resolution,... it will HAVE TO BE in the ROTK movie.

::SPOILER BELOW::



Besides.... that image of Saruman splayed out dead on top of Hobbiton's blackened mill wheel is too blazening to the imagination to think that they won't cover the Scouring.

So just calm down everybody. ;) The movies aren't out yet! We'll know soon enough.

::switcing sides suddenly::
BUT NOT NEARLY SOON ENOUGH FOR ME!!!!! HOW MANY MORE DAYS??? HOOOOWW MAAANNNNY MOORE DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYS!!!!!!!??????????????

;) :D

[Starr Polish]

Deep breaths, Eowyn, deep breaths.

Okay. 39 days until the movie.

I'm fairly sure that the scouring is OUT. This was made official the same time Peter said there would be no Shelob in TTT.

[Eowyn of Rohan]

Hmmmmmmm..... I don't like where this is going.
I'm off to do some investigation. I'll let you know the results.

[Nurvingiel]

I don't like where this is going either Eowyn. You have a history of good posts, I hope your investigations turn up something good! :D Cheers.

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Eowyn of Rohan
Besides.... that image of Saruman splayed out dead on top of Hobbiton's blackened mill wheel is too blazening to the imagination to think that they won't cover the Scouring.

Whoa. That would be LUUUUUSH! I'd always assumed it would be on a wheel of his own making. Arg.

Someone mentioned Theodred: he wasn't even in TTT, other than by reference, was he? But I reckon they'll add that stuff as build-up to the seige of Helm's Deep.

[Eowyn of Rohan]

MAJOR SPOILERS!!!
LOTS OF INFO ENCLOSED!

Okay... I've been away for awhile, but I have not forgotten my promise to research this one out as much as possible.

The following covers the rumors regarding:
1) The movies interpretation of the Scouring of the Shire.
and
2) The movies dealings with the demise of Saruman

If you don't want to know about these DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER!!!!

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First thing is first:
If you want to see the movie picture that I referred to above of Saruman "splayed out on a spiked wheel", then visit this site and scroll to the bottom (WARNING: this site has MANY TTT movie images. If you don't want it spoiled, just take my word for it.)

http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots_ttt/ttt_b3c07_scene3.htm#top

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This next site is an article entitled "Quickbeam wraps up the Wizard Kebab" (It is too long to copy in full, but some of the major highlights of the article have been copied below.)

http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/972679815

Who's Spiking Who?
It's official. Saruman dies during The Two Towers in a very unique way, via the magic of Peter Jackson's imagination. We have proof of exactly what was going on in the now notorious photo that appeared in a Wellington newspaper last August. It showed a bedraggled, upended white wizard lanced clean through on a massive spiked wheel. Poor sod.
...
The Call Sheet tells us what they were filming that day, on what set, and the particulars of what the scene required: 'As Saruman turns on the wheel, the Palant'r drops from his hand and into the water.' We have only one conclusion to make: Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh have abandoned the original death found in Tolkien's pages, making up something wholly new. The implication for the films' overall story is not immediately clear, but you can connect the dots with what evidence we have.

My take on it: There will be no Scouring of the Shire in the films.

If PJ decides Saruman will meet his demise in the second film, after the Ents' destruction of Isengard, then we certainly won't have the chain of events found later in the story! There will be no Saruman to infiltrate the Shire and assert control over Lotho and the other hobbits.
...
Perhaps now that the Wizard-kebab has been so widely publicized it will never even end up in the movie. Maybe it was a red-herring all along, meant to drive us batty and increase free publicity for the project.
...

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http://www.ringfaq.com/story.html

Saruman's cinematic fate may differ from that of the novels. A spy photo taken during filming seems to show Saruman's death on a piece of machinery at the Orthanc set, and some readers have suggested he will fall from the tower after his confrontation with the heros in The Two Towers, instead of perishing in the Shire later on as in the books.

The Scouring of the Shire sequence will not be included in the films, although the Departure for the Gray Havens is in.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...

[Eowyn of Rohan]

CONTINUED FROM LAST POST...

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http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=11565

ROTK - BIG SHOCKER – Peter was asked how he plans to deal with the ending of the story…since the SOTS is sort of a downbeat ending how do they plan to deal with that?

PJ: "There won’t be a downbeat ending because it’s not there".

A bit of stunned silence in the room. I find myself still in denial.

Peter goes on to explain how he knows that the SOTS was important to Tolkien, that seeing the English countryside destroyed was a big theme but that they did not plan to end the film this way.

He said that’s why they paid a sort of homage to it in the mirror of Galadriel scene. He also said he found it the most awkward chapter personally. But he stressed that in order to make a film like this of Frodo and The Ring and his journey to Mordor, you "just couldn’t do it".

I called out "yes you can!" but was only heard by those near me.

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http://www2.tolkienonline.com/docs/5337.html

((Co-writer's Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, along with co-writer and director Peter Jackson accepted the challenge))

Readers may also object to he omission of the marvelous ‘coda’ with which Tolkien ends The Return of the King, when Frodo returns from his battle with the Dark Lord to find that his beloved bucolic Shire has been taken over by the evil wizard Saruman.

Boyens: “Unfortunately, as wonderful and brilliant as that last chapter is, it’s not something that we believe our film could sustain. You can’t have a huge climax that you main characters have been striving for, for three films, and then start the story up again and play out an episodic ending. An audience sitting in a cinema just wouldn’t go with it.”

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This last statement from Philippa echos my arguments that I posted on another thread (and, I believe, in another forum):
While a wonderful end to the Hobbits adventure and of the 'whatever happened to Saruman and Wormtongue' question, the Scouring of the Shire is NOT the natural climax to the overall story line even though (technically) the last battle of the WOTR takes place in the Shire - The Battle of Bywater).

These last chapters in ROTK are wrap up! Even in reading them, the overall sense of urgency and imminent doom are alleviated because the one ring has now been destroyed. The Hobbits don't even take the threats from the Big Folk seriously upon their return which only echos the sentiments that "there IS no real imminent and complete doom that is going to befall all of ME unless the situation is remedied".

While I will miss it, I don't think the SOTS is necessary to the MOVIE's storyline; however, ... now you have to deal with the Saruman and Wormtongue question.

It seems that they are going to do that by offing them in TTT.
(Purist!! - Please calm down!) :)

The spiked wheel (which at first I thought was in Hobbiton) seems to be a piece of equipment from Saruman's own Uruk-hai making factory in the fathoms below Orthanc.

This raises tons of questions:
Does he fall in the great debate with Gandalf the White?
Does Wormtongue still end him, perhaps by pushing him from the balcony?
Who now destroys Wormtongue since he won't be shot down by arrows from Hobbits?

Are you ready for THIS next new rumor??

It said that possibly Eowyn will be slaying Wormtongue!!

I would HATE that by the way. (hate hate hate loathe it!!)
If PJ is GOING to do it like this, then Eomer or Theoden should strike him down. Eowyn's battles should be saved for Pelennor, to keep that wonderful element of her surprise.

But I digress...

What do all of you think of this revealed information?

[Nurvingiel]

That would be so wrong! That would totally change what Tolkein intended!

I was overjoyed that the Fellowship of the Ring maintained Tolkein's integrity and intent, even if the Old-Forest part was cut out.

If he does ridiculous things like take out the scouring of the Shire, this integrity will be lost, and I will cry. (Okay, maybe I won't but I'll be choked.)

I heard that PJ wanted to make six movies, but Hollywood nixed that idea.

(He'd do better than Lucas' prequels, I bet, of course, those were ~20 years apart...)

Yargh! I hate and love spoilers all at the same time!

[Nibs]

Eh. We all have differing opinions on what scenes are worth keeping and I don't expect P.J. to adhere to my own... this is kind of a wish list.

Aragorn instructing Hama not to let anyone touch (or, as it seems, even look at) Anduril as he leans it upon Theoen's hall.

Grishnakh, as he sneaks with Merry and Pippin under each arm, trying to escape the ring of Rohirrim, gets shot in the hand with an arrow as he takes out his sword. And then shrieks. And then is slain (Booya! Where's your Nazgúl now, sucka?).

Quickbeam's line: "They have called me that since I answered an elder Ent's question before he finished it."

That's about it for now, although there are so many endearing scenes that I would love to see portrayed visually.

[Nurvingiel]

I think those are great scenes! I hope PJ at least has a few of those on his wish list!
;)

On my wish list, I hope they show that Gimli has a lot of respect for Galadriel, and then have him square off against Eomer about her.

This might not happen...

[Nibs]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
On my wish list, I hope they show that Gimli has a lot of respect for Galadriel, and then have him square off against Eomer about her.

This might not happen...
And then maybe the same subject that comes up in RotK. "You have chosen the evening, but my heart goes with the morning."

[azalea]

I love that line!

As far as Saruman's demise, I think I'll only be happy if it is indeed Wormtongue who pushes him -- and really, why wouldn't it be? I would be CRUSHED if it were the ents. Who knows how they'll do Wormtongue? Maybe an orc gets him.

[Nurvingiel]

I hope PJ maintains Tolkein's intent in TTT the same way he did in FOTR. Overall, it was awesome.

Compared to the book, movie-Gimli was one-dimensional and boring. Since Gimli is important and kick-ass, I hope PJ makes it up in TTT.

[Lollypopgurl]

EEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYTTTHI IIIIIINGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PUT EVERYTHING IN THERE!!! Peter Jackson! If you are reading this, gather the cast and make whatever shots you haven't yet that are in the book!!!

Oh yeah, if you need some countryside with lots of grass for Rohan, come to Texas. Preferably in Dallas.:D